Matter of Principle Part 1 of 5 Mormon Polygamy

[redwoodrebelgirl]

@Mormonites...so YES it still does exist in the modern mainstream Mormon Church--just not in the same way that it exists and is practiced by Fundamentalist groups. One might say that the Fundamentalist groups are the more honest Mormons that did not compromise their religious beliefs for political acceptance. I don't personally believe in polygamy and I absolutely rebuke and abhor the concept of Blood Atonement. But to say that Mormonism is completely dissociated from wither of these

[redwoodrebelgirl]

@Mormonites...concepts and teachings is simply not true.

[redwoodrebelgirl]

@Mormonites. I also want to state clearly that I think that early and recent prosecution (and persecution) of polygamists is unjust and immoral. I do not believe that the government has any business mandating or prohibiting ANY marital/familial/sexual arrangments of it's citizenry as long as those arrangements are made by consenting adults. When abuse occurs it should be prosecuted. I am a monogamist myself who believes in civil liberties and religious freedom. I think it has turned out to be

[redwoodrebelgirl]

@Mormonites. TRAGIC in terms of the abuse that has apparently flourished in some of the Fundamentalist groups (in PART) because of the isolation, closedness, and secrecy that has resulted from the illegalization of polygamy. I believe that the US was RIGHTFULLY afraid of the theocratic aspirations of Utah and Mormon leaders (well-documented in JS's case!)--and chose to focus their attack on polygamy (because it was more sensational) than the threat to the separation of Church and State. TRAGIC!

[redwoodrebelgirl]

@Mormonites... that it will be practiced in the Celestial Kingdom, and Mormon men are allowed to be sealed to any number of wives (as long as the wives are deceased or still married by Temple covenants but have obtained secular divorce). The Fundamentalists are practicing Mormonism (including Blood Atonement) as it was taught and practiced by Jospeh Smith and Brigham Young and many other Church leaders--before polygamy was (allegedly) abandonned by "revelation" (but still practiced in secret).

[redwoodrebelgirl]

@Mormonites I was raised Mormon, with the teaching that Jesus (who is expected to return in my lifetime) would restore the "new and everlasting covenant" (of plural marriage), when He administers the government of the world through the Mormon Church. EVERY Mormon woman grows up with the knowledge the polygamy may be "restored" in her lifetime and that her "eternal salvation" depends upon her acceptance of such, when it is restored. Polygamist theology is still on the books, it is still taught...

[LukeAir2008]

@Mormonites It was our 'Holy Founder Joseph Smith' who restored plural marriage and had up to 33 wives.

[LukeAir2008]

@Mormonites What is revised LDS doctrine? Plural marriage is still in the LDS standard works - D&C 132. It has never been revised. We only stopped the practice of plural marriage because the US Government were going to destroy the Church. Read Official Declaration 1. We still believe in plural marriage - we just don't practice it at the moment.

[edwardsson777]

Polygamy has not been abolished in a doctrinal sense in the Church. It has been suspended for the time being. It is not immoral as the prophets of the OT practiced it and Jesus never condemned it either. It was the influence of Pagan Rome that would cause the Catholic Church to oppose it but such opposition is no more Biblically based than having a clergy that cannot marry and reproduce.

[IExposeMormonism]

@Mormonites Mormons are in a state of Apostasy for varying from this basic and essential component of Joes Mormonism. You guys have apostasized from Mormonism sooner than the Christians you accuse of apostasy since c300 AD. tsk tsk. Adam-God Doctrine, Polygamy, blood atonement. on it goes, such Milky Mormonism is fit only for burning,according to strict Mormon standards of religious law. the FLDS is the true Mormon church

[sammycatfan]

@going4truth there are a number of Christian polygamists on the web that put forward a good case for bible based polygamy. polygamy can be proved from the bible alone. and was practiced within it's pages.

(sammy husband)--Yeah, Abraham and Solomon and David sure had problems. Lol.

[khadijagwen]

Well, I actually was a fundi Christian, and actually was a conservative Muslimah until the LDS got me. So, I can speak with some authority on all three. Funny thing, the people that are all roudy about belief systems, mostly have no experience with them. Strange that. In my nearly 40 years of study, I'd say that the LDS are the most correct.

[bayreuth79]

@khadijagwen On what basis do you claim that "the LDS are the most correct"? Mormons believe that God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three separate "Gods", as well as believing that they themselves can become "Gods". This is nothing short of blasphemy. In the Old Testament God reveals himself to be "One". The Jews were radical monotheists, just like the Muslims. There is no evidence whatsoever for distinctive Mormon doctrines in the scriptures; in fact they contradict each other.

[khadijagwen]

@bayreuth79 Actually, in context the Mormons do actually believe in one God. It is when non-Mormons start misconstruing what they say, or outright lie about what they say, there is trouble. For example, let's say that at the present time God on a scale is a 5 and we are 1s. Later God will be a 7 and we will be a 2. Later, he is a 10 and we are 5. That way it is pretty simple. As far as the separation of the trinity, the trinity was not even thought up until around 400 AD.

[bayreuth79]

@khadi I was a Mormon for twenty-two years and I am not misconstruing LDS teaching regarding "God". There is no doubt whatsoever that the LDS Church teaches that Heavenly Father is a God, Jesus is a God and the Holy Spirit is a God, so already we have three "Gods". J Smith taught that God the Father is an exalted man; and given his teaching regarding "eternal progression", this must mean that "God the Father" once worshiped a "God", and so on to infinity. This is not the monotheism of scripture!

[khadijagwen]

@bayreuth79 I was a christian for over 30 years before I went to Islam for about 5 years. So you can say I have been around. The thing you are talking about here is really a small issue to me. I will never give anyone my heart again like I did before. As far as Polygamy is concerned, I was a Muslim before, so that is not an issue either, though, no 12 year old girls married to 50 year old guys; that kind of thing, you know. Sounds like you hate them. Go in peace.

[bayreuth79]

@khadijagwen In Joseph Smith's so-called "first vision" (actually there are quite a few versions of this) he claims to have seen God the Father and God the Son in physical form. This is already a denial of monotheism. It should be understood that "monotheism" implies a metaphysic, i.e., that in all of reality there is and can only be one divine reality and the term we use for this is "God". I know of no serious Biblical scholar who would disagree that the authors of the Bible were monotheists.

[bayreuth79]

@khadijagwen The three great Abrahamic monotheisms (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) all broadly agree on what we mean by "God". One of the best definitions we have of "God" is as follows: "That than which nothing greater can be conceived" (St Anselm). This is what the term "God" means; but I can conceive of something greater than the Mormon "God", hence he is not God at all. Resulting from this definition is the view that metaphysically there can only be "ONE" God (not a plurality).

[khadijagwen]

@bayreuth79 I actually do believe that each person should practice what they believe. It is not my place to force others. I actually think that we really have very little idea of the true nature of God, though I keep my peace, prefering to love God and to love those around me. I don't need more order than that. There are those who do need a lot of order, but not me. Everything I own will fit in my car, I don't need any more than that. As Salaam Alaykom.

[bayreuth79]

@khadijagw What do you mean by "in context"? In what context are we supposed to understand that the LDS are actually monotheists like everyone else? No; I have spoken to Bishops and Stake Presidents (incidentally, my dad has occupied both positions) and leaders higher up in the Church, and they have all agreed that LDS doctrine is that we worship only one god (god the father) but that there are nevertheless a plurality of gods. This is not monotheism, but a kind of polytheism; and its heretical.

[khadijagwen]

@bayreuth79 You know, I have had a really rough life; rejected constantly; accused of unholy things that I did not do. It has made me a peaceful person; a submissive. I only want to be a woman of God, and be kind to others, and am not equiped for a debate about all this. The LDS people I am with now have been really nice to me, not holding my sins in front of my face constantly. It is enough for me.

[bayreuth79]

@khadijagwen I am pleased that you have found some peace in life. Where are you from? The reason I argue about what Mormons believe is because quite often they like to pretend that they are mainstream Christians, whereas, in fact, they are anything but mainstreamers.

[khadijagwen]

@bayreuth79 I'm in Oregon. I think old christianity is version 1.0 and is an abomination to the name of Jesus Christ. I think the Salt Lake LDS are version 8.1 and are the true church. Some may not agree. That is their choice.

[bayreuth79]

@khadijagwen The problem you are wrong about this; its can be demonstrated that you are wrong. However, I realize that there is no persuading some people.

[mazgru]

funny the morons on here comment about this is all wrong and the revised LDS dont believe in polygamy. lolz revised? either your doctrain is straight from god to joey smith or its not u cant revise what he said.

[khadijagwen]

@mazgru There are at least 6 branches of the Mormon faith. 11 million of them do not believe in polygamy. the FLDS about 2000 in number do. The RLDS hold some other beliefs, but they and the Salt Lake Mormons are on speaking terms. That is more than I can say for some Baptists.

[TehBloodyBrit]

I thought my right earphone was broke..

[guizarp]

Great video.. Thanks. Polygamy is the key for many problems..

[do0iluvgdkie]

interesting video thanks for the post.

[awolLDSasap]

@Mormonites Polygamy is the fruit of Josephs religion. Section 132 has not been removed from the D&C. Holy founder Joseph Smith? The Word of God states that Joseph Smith has been cursed.

[DonQuijote]

@Mormonites I can't tell if you are serious or if you're joking. There is nothing anti-Mormon in this video. You should watch it, then let me know what lies and blasphemes are in it. Joseph Smith taught that plural marriage was the most holy & pure principle introduced to man by God. If LDS church members are ashamed of their past, they are in the wrong church. Heber C. Kimball said "You might as well deny 'Mormonism,' and turn away from it, as to oppose the plurality of wives."

[khadijagwen]

The law should have no power over consenting adults. No I am not talking about girls less than 18

[vcomp1960]

@khadijagwen What if two consenting adults are planning a murder?

[khadijagwen]

@vcomp1960 Thats just nuts. Having been Muslim, I am open to it in certain tight context. Voluntary, over 18, not more than 10 years age spread, and no more than three wives. No breaking tax laws or any other civil law. Never mind, even in non Mormon society, in the <35 age group, people just do what they want to anyhow. I don't know how the church or the government ever got mixed up in marriage?

[vcomp1960]

@khadijagwen My comment was a silly joke.....no offense inteneded....peace!

[khadijagwen]

@vcomp1960 No problem. I am an Investigator and applying to join the Salt Lake Church. I won't push it but I will not oppose it. The Mormons have been put through a hell over all this. It is not fair.

[vcomp1960]

@khadijagwen Be careful! At first, the mormons only tell you the good stuff. It's later that the weirdness begins.

[khadijagwen]

@vcomp1960 Um, what can be weirder than Fundi Christianity, or conservative Islam? Are you saying they are disembling? So far, I like them a lot, and I have heard some of the weird stuff, but it does not mean that everyone subscribes to it. If you're thinking Josep Smith was weird, then how about Moses, imagine that? If Muhammad PBUH can be a prophet, then why not Joseph Smith? Fundi Christians shoot their wounded and eat their young. BTDT. So, far Mormons have shown themselves Loving.

[vcomp1960]

@khadijagwen Muḥammad, Smith, Jeffs, Jesus.......I wouldn't get involved with any of them. Best just to follow your own heart! Be careful!

[DonQuijote]

I 100% agree with you there.

[farranspointon]

I believe in plural marriages for any adults desiring such but I also believe the individuals should have the right to choose their mates and not be forced into an unwanted union.