@HigherPoker Joe considers himself Welsh. And anyway what is now England was once the land of the ancient Welsh, the true British. "England" is stolen Welsh territory. Joe is the second greatest British and European boxer, after Jimmy Wilde- from Wales, which has produced at least 4 of the top 10 British boxers ever, Freddie Welsh and Jim Driscoll being others.
@hawkman350 Once Joe had someone in trouble it was always one way traffic: once he'd figured his opponents out there could only be one winner. He had relentless will and energy.
@hawkman350 Oh, and Veit was robbed too when stopped by Joe in Germany, was he? Veit was no mug, unbeaten till he fought Joe, had another unbeaten run till beaten by Joe again. Veit was one of only 2 boxers to defeat recent world champ Braehmer. But he was no match at all for Joe, who deserves more credit.
@mizofan I disagree. He fought in his own back yard all his career then beat two old men in America. One of which, (Hopkins), was robbed. Joe got a lot of favourable stoppages and was clearly protected by corrupt referees and judges. He was a cash cow.
@hawkman350 Joe stopped Veit again in Germany, not Wales. It was only when he was worth more money that Hopkins fought him, having chickened out years before. Joe protected? In the stoppages you complain of he was clearly dominant and it was one-way traffic. Once Joe had his opponent's measure it was always one way traffic, and one inevitable outcome. Hopkins was robbed was he, in his own back yard? He held, hugged, back pedalled, cheated and time wasted when tired and about to be finished.
@mizofan You can keep sugar coating it all you want, the stoppages Joe was awarded were disgusting. Veit wasn't even hurt. If Joe wanted to take on all comers why didn't he relocate to the states like that joke amir khan. It seems to be working for him and he's pretty crap!
@hawkman350 it doesnt matter how "hard" the punches are or if his opponent was "hurt"
the rules are there for a reason, you cant have these young lads just going in there and getting repeatedly punched in the face and expect to just let the fight go on
this isnt MMA, boxers suffer long-term brain damage from taking too much blunt trauma to the head, his opponent was NEVER in the fight
@cazz3000 It was just a typical victory by Joe. He always got favourable treatment because he was protected under warren. Veits tactics could have been to let Joe punch himself out, then come on strong in the later rounds. He was robbed of his opportunity.
@hawkman350 So you think this was Veit's brilliant tactic, to let Joe punch himself out- by being knocked down twice and taking another barrage when refs routinely stop fights at that point! You really are completely deluded. And he was stopped again at home in a rematch! Joe had incredible stamina, wasn't gonna punch himself out anyway. You've just shown how desperate Joe's biased and idiotic haters are to convince themselves he wasn't a great fighter. Your comment is a gift to Joe's fans
@hawkman350 Jones wasn't much older than Joe- both in their late 30s, Joe past his prime too, whereas Hopkins has been exceptional for his age. Why would Joe need protecting when dominating his fights? Hopkins couldn't cope with Joe's heart and pace, the 2nd half of the fight was one way, and constant time wasting and taking minutes for a rest is hardly the sign of a winner. Joe was adaptable, overcame hand trouble- a lot of people just don't like his style so don't give him proper credit.
@4180stephen Veit was unbeaten in 30 fights and in his prime when stopped by Joe, had another unbeaten run till stopped by Joe again in his own country, and beat Braehmer, the Light Heavyweight champ. Whoever Joe beat, his detractors try to diminish his opponents- but Kessler won back the super middle title and Hopkins has now won a title again 3 years after losing to Joe. There was noone around good enough for Joe. Hopkins avoided him till the big money and he could use age as an excuse.
@mizofan i agree with all ur points but veit after being blown away should never have got a rematch he wasnt in joes class obviously veits manager/promoter greased the wheels and got there man another shot when there was no chance of him winning i dont think joe wanted or needed to fight him a second time
@4180stephen Yes, Joe was obviously too good for him, but Veit's record after their fight pushed him back up to main contender status, in the absence of others good enough, and fighters like Jones and Hopkins (avoided fight lined up with Joe) not being available.
@4180stephen mario veit's promoter klaus peter kohl forced joe calzaghe to fight mario veit it was a 100% deal made by universum box promotion and the wbo calzaghe was upset because they destroyed his dreams fighting either jones or hopkins in the usa he was looking forward to, he came to germany and brutally beat up mario a second time! also former wba and ibf super middleweight champion sven ottke ducked calzaghe he run off and retired
@erwillrockn Well said. Joe's critics have completely warped the truth with their desperate delusions. Joe was a class above possible contenders round Super Middleweight during his career.
He may have been a good boxer, but he wasn't a good fighter, and thats what the yanks like,... who doesn't...i have never liked the bloke because i recon he's a bighead, and i hate mouthy bigheads, but he hasn;t knocked enough people out to be remembered as a great champion.in my view, unlike the bigheads, BHop and Mayweather.
Calzaghe was wthout doubt in the same league as Jones & Hopkins in there Prime.Its a great shame they never fought if they did who would of one was anybodys guess as they where all equal with different strenghts. All i can say is that when Jones and Hopkins where at the peak of there career the Calzaghe fight never happened yet strangely when Calzaghe carrer peaked they did and they lost go figure my pedigree chums lol
Of his first 50 fights Veit only lost to Joe, x2, and beat the current light heavy champ. Joe beat Kessler who beat Froch who is now world champ again, having destroyed Abraham who ko'd Taylor who beat Hopkins x2. Froch beat Pascal who beat Dawson and Taylor. Joe was clearly the best there's been at supermiddle, dominated the division, then moved up a weight to beat Hopkins and Jones who avoided him in his prime, in their own country. Hopkins then beat Pavlik who was supposed to beat Joe.
i dont drink im just a normal guy that hs seen calzaghe around my town lording it up and saying do you know who i am to everyone he meets and i hate that shit so i like to knock him out hes a bag of piss and wind and his dads a cunt too i think on a good night i could beat them both there a family of jews
jamie35, defo one 2 many stella son, keep to beating the sheep with your b@llbag, i would knock u out and i'm only 9 stone lol, joe calzaghe was a top boxer, proved time and time again, never on the canvas a true champion
jamie35, defo one 2 many stella son, keep to beating the sheep with your b@llbag, i would knock u out and i'm only 9 stone lol, joe calzaghe was a top boxer, proved time and time again, never on the canvas a true champion
To all you Calzagne nut huggers. Can you honestly say that Mario Veit are wothy of 2 "Title" shots? That's the WBOgus for ya. And that's why Calzagne was undefeated. Because he fought bums, tomato cans, No-hopers, & washed up fighters for most of his career.
@Chauncey1966 he beat 15 world champs in his career and fought hopkins and jones at the end of his career because they were too scared to fight him when they were younger cos he would have finished them off then.he wasn't much younger than them either and look at the way he slaughtered the supposedly invinsible jeff lacy.
@fringecakeboy come on come on come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just to say that calzaghe had even a little chance to survive a fight against a prime RJJ, make me wonder if ur a troll, or just stupid
@Chauncey1966 most of boxing involves fighting cans and washed up fighters mate. But finishing your career by beating Hopkins who was still very relevant/Kessler and RJJ, among Lacy/Manfredo without ever taking a loss surely seals him as one of the best at that weight ever.
@mazzadude Much credit to him for beating Kessler but Lacy was all hype, Jones & Hopkins was washed up, & you must be joking about Manfredo. Wasn't he the guy from that Contender reality series? Calzagne would never be considered an all time great outside of europe because he fought has beens & no-hopers for much of his career. Had he made the big fights when people was in their prime & lost, he still would have gotten respect for trying like Hatton & Bruno did. Manfredo!! ROFLMAO!!!
@Chauncey1966 I wouldn't call a guy who just beat Tarver, then after losing to calzague and then beat Pavlic washed up. Hopkins was a top fighter at that time.
@Chauncey1966 Hopkins washed up 3 years ago was he? Strange he's just won the title, then. Ha, Joe's detractors can't keep trotting out the feeble excuses. There was simply noone good enough to match him.
@Chauncey1966 Veit won all his first 50 fights except Joe, beat the current light heavy champ. Joe not only beat the best, but the ones he beat also beat all the others who were supposed to be any good.
im from wales and ive never boxed ever but i could know this joe out in three come out of retirement and give me a shot a boxer vs a normal guy from the streets bring it on heres my numbe 02920 653009 call me anytime im not after money i just know i can beat your ass in three
hey hey come on now letz not forget b-hop, jones and calzaghe all suck arse. dont matter who ducked who they all suck arse. dont like calzaghe dont watch his videos simple? wrong calzaghe suckz and i didnt watch the video asspuppet.
@Khonnell please stop riding joe calzaghes coat tails with your crack fein talk and your roy jones jr blasphomes. roy was 49-0 before he got old. he woulda been way too fast and way too powerful for mighty joe if they both fought in their primes. i just watched a video here on youtube with roy jones jr highlights in his prime and then i watched joe calzaghes in his prime and its comical to say joe woulda beat roy in their primes
man so so so many jokes on youtube pretending to know a lot about boxing when in reality they know fuckall. get educated before making a comment. and that means doing some more research other than playing fight night on the ps3
i noticed sum1 was talkin bout people duckin calzaghe so if sumbody wants to defend him explain why for the last 2 years of his carrer why he ducked carl froch?
you can tell calzaghe has lost alot of his power in later years (due to the hand injurys probably)...its a shame..I would've liked to have seen him KO hopkins lol instead of the points win
this guy's legacy is very polarizing. I'd say he was pretty damn good. He wasn't fighting total bums, def the best in europe but it's difficult to compare him to all time greats. I like him because he was a unique fighter that had fast hands that overwhelmed many of his opponents. Looked as if he could take a punch too.
joe calzaghi is one of the best fighters of all time he gave jeff lacy a boxing lesson and i am a lacy fan, he is up there with ali marcianno and any other great hard fighters he is one of the only few fighters that when hit would come back and try to knock you out not even the great ali did that
Buddy that is the most honest comment on Calzaghe I have read. I agree he is definately one of the all time best. I did not realise how good he was until the Lacy fight which to be honest I did not expect him to win.
Joe Calzaghe will be rated one of the best British+ perhaps European boxers of all time, but falls well short when compared to the greatest fighters of all time. For most of his career he held a minor belt+ avoided the best fighters at 168 or 175lbs eg Jones, Michelcewski, Ottke, Tarver, Johnson or Dawson.
Jeff Lacey was wildy over-rated. Calzaghe's best win was v Kessler who was a very good boxer, but whose limitations i.e one paced+ predictable movement were exposed by the speed of Ward.
calzaghe avoided ottke? you must be kidding. joe openly chased ottke for years...it was ottke ducking calzaghe if anything.
jones is the one who famously ducked michalczewski & rocchigiani too ..dawson is a guy who called out calzaghe after he retired...tarver spent years chasing jones and being forced to jump through hoops to get a shot at rjj..& johnson was just a journeyman till he sparked rjj & he's the only guy who can say joe ducked him...it's not really true...but he can say it.
ok yeah both 'calsappy' and 'gayweather' are undefeated, and urrrm didn't tyson, ali and lewis all lost at some point in their career? calzaghe and mayweather are both undefeated at professional level, so how can they not be compared to those 3? get over it, you're living in the olden days mate
A lot... I thought about that a while ago. He has a bigger vested interest in this tournament than anyone other than the fighters in it.
A lot of people disregard the Kessler win, because he is so untested and doesn't have a great resume. If he wins this tournament, it'll easily be Calzaghe's best win.
he fought bums untill the best got old, good boxer but not world class, he will be forgoten in a year or 2, unlike tyson roy jones, ali,lewis, sugar, like it or not. its the truth.
lool you mean the same tyson who got knocked out by danny williams and douglas? and lewis? who did tyson ever beat? no one. calzaghes best boxer ever mate hes got better record than any mug on your list. record matters over opinion because everyone has opinions. thing is your opinion means fuckall and joes record means everything
you know fuck all about boxing mate, and if you think you do think again. look at the vids on here of tyson, like it not and i dont really give a fuck, mike tyson was 1 of the best fighters ever. who did he beat you say???? i aint got the time, the list goes on and on and on.... proves you know fuck all about boxing. and my opinion??? 2 last words FUCK OFF
listen here you little prick, if i ever find out where you live ill pull ya fucking bollox off after wot you said about me, ive all ready reported you, and ive read ya profile page. i see the comments about you. you wana watch dude.... now fuck off you dirty little cunt!!!!!
you say calzaghe fought bums & he'll be forgotten unlike roy jones jr? roy jones jr fought so many bums...more than calzaghe. hell, i'd say veit was more of a live opponent than 90% of the guys rjj fought on ppv. 9 former champs &every mandatory thrown his way vs a mailman & a rent-a-cop.
& joe calazghe only fought bums until the best got old unlike mike tyson? dude, tyson knocked out cans & oaps for a couple of years then got beat by every good fighter he faced for the rest of his career.
Simply look at Jones wins v Hopkins, Toney, Johnson. Griffin. Sosa + the ease in which he demolished fighters like Thornton+ Malinga, who gave fighters like Benn+ Eubank considerable difficulties at their respective peaks.
Jones fought in a weak 175lb division+ was criticised for some poor oppenents however the masterclass he gave Clinton Woods who went on to become champion is testament to the fact he would take some beating at that weight too..
b-hop was very green & nowhere near the fighter he became. the b-hop calzaghe beat was a much better fighter than the b-hop jones beat.
toney was weight drained & none of the other fighters you named is in any way a name. is merqui sosa better than mitchell, kessler, lacy, eubank, woodhall or reid? no.
griifin did nothing other than get a fluke win over jones in the first place & clinton woods? he was alright but nothing special. & thats among the best rjj beat. remember roycott?
the b-hop clzaghe beat was MUCH MUCH better than the b-hop rjj beat. how can you even think of arguing with that?
"Jones fought a far higher level of boxer than Calzaghe". who? thornton? telesco? sosa? frazier? i'd take veit over them. non puncher del valle made rjj do the chicken dance and fall on his ass. a 40 year old macullum took jones the distance. jones was never lineal champion, ducked every proper contender for years & when he stopped fighting bums he started getting knocked out.
hopkins at 42 > hopkins at 26. if you think different: you're retarded.
triangle theories don't work. johnson beat rjj...woods beat johnson...is woods better than jones?
& de valle was a competent boxer? so was veit. unbeaten when he faced calzaghe. how many unbeaten guys did jones beat? not many. how many former champs? again...not many. there was a widely publicised campaign about him fighting bums (roycott) & he ducked real contenders...too many to list here. who did cal duck?
It is difficult to credibly argue that any athlete in any sport is better at age 42 than at age 26.
Bernard Hopkins is no exception by the time he fought Calzaghe he had been beaten twice by Jermain Taylor whose main advantage was the ability to box 12 rds at a fast pace, somthing which 42 year old Hopkins could no longer do.
Lou Del Valle was the reigning WBA champion when he fought Jones+ had only lost once on pts to a peak Virgil Hill. After that he didn't lose again for 5 years...
you think b-hop was better at 26? you're wrong. his whole style is about experience. he says himself he is much better now...how many best of the 90's lists was he on in 1999? how many best of the 00's lists is he on now? whats that tell you?
oh...& b-hop won at least one of those taylor fights...but tbh hopkins learned from that anyway & got better. he was nothing special at 26. funny how he was able to do 12 rds at a fast pace against pavlik tho, no?
Hopkins was better at 26 than he was at 42! After losing to Jones he won the IBF in his next fight+ held it for 10 years. He must have been pretty good!
Claims that he is better now are simply to sell tickets. A peak Hopkins would have beaten Taylor+ Calzaghe + not avoided fighting the 175lb champions. Hopkins can still win relatively slow tactical fights eg v Wright, Tarver+ Pavlik; But he cannot sustain a fast pace for 12 rounds into his 40's eg v Taylor+Calzaghe who he dominated early on..
regarding b-hop you are wrong. your opinion is wrong & the "facts" you are using to back up your opinion are also wrong. "After losing to Jones he won the IBF in his next fight". nope. not true. you have no idea what you are talking about.
Hopkins won the IBF title about a year after losing to Jones. After winning the 160lb title v Hopkins, Jones moved up to the 168lb decision + Hopkins won the vacant crown v Mercado I think. He held that title for a long time, probably the longest reign since Hagler.
The big difference though is that Hagler was the undisputed champion for many years. As was Roy Jones at 175lbs which is why he s rated as one of THE best pound for pound boxers of the entire decade.
mercado was nothing special & b-hop struggled against him first time out. i don't know why you don't get that he improved with age.
hopkins was considered to be a paper champ until he beat trinidad...everyone thought he was going to get beat in that fight. & the tarver fight. he got better as he got older & people respected him more too. only an absolute idiot thinks that rjj faced a "prime" b-hop. but i shouldn't have to tell you this...i'm not your boxing history teacher.
Jones beat a good Hopkins for the IBF title. It is probably true that Hopkins improved over time+ there should have been a rematch but Hopkins was still a very good fighter.
Trinidad came with a fearsome reputation, much deserved given he had knocked out almost every welterweight he faced+ won light middle + middleweight titles by KO in stunning fashion v Vargas+ then Joppy. Prior to that win Hopkins reputation was as a formidable but defensive+ ocaasionall dull champion.
no...b-hop wasn't rated by anyone. he was considered to be a guy who only took on guys coming up in weight. he wasn't even on most peoples radar until he beat holmes in 01 (i think). everyone was waiting for him to get destroyed by trinidad & that win put him on the map.
but mw was very poor back then...trinidad was over-rated...as was joppy...imo his best win is tarver at lh...most of his early years he's fighting the same guys over & over like allen & echols.
The fact that Hopkins had been champion for five years meant he was respected. His problem was his defensive style that wasn't always nice to watch+ the lack of marquee names on his record. Echols+ Allen were competent challengers but not big names. I knew all about him from the Jones fight.
Trinidad wasn't over-rated. He was deadly at the lower weights possibly the biggest puncher since Hearns. Joppy was fast+ skilfull too.
Hopkins stepped up+ gave them both a boxing masterclass..
no offence but you obviously weren't following b-hop's career at the time. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about regarding him. i can only tell you what people were saying at the time...you can choose to believe me or not...you seem quite new to boxing so maybe you'll get it later.
trinidad & joppy? imo means "in my opinion". but whatever.
I have been watching Hopkins since 1993+ , so I am not sure what it is that you claim I don't know what I am talking about.
I saw Hopkins beat men like Jackson, Vanderpool, Echols, Allen, Brown. He was effective without always being entertaining. It was the unification series where he beat Holmes, Joppy+ Trinidad where he really elevated his status. He was always good but there were more entertaining pound for pound fighters eg De la Hoya, Jones, Trinidad, Toney, Barrera, Morales, Hamed etc
b-hop was an undercard boxer fighting b-level fighters during the 90's. when he wins that title he wasn't that good. by the time he moved up to lh he was a premier counter puncher. he is much more technically sound & is better conditioned now than in his 20's. he was a late starter & a late bloomer. you're a fool if you think he was better in the 90's.
"I am not sure what it is that you claim I don't know what I am talking about."
You are never going to convince me or I suspect most informed obersvers that Bernard Hopkins at 42 is better than he was at 28. He wouldn't have lost v Calzaghe or Taylor back then.
Equally you are not going to convince me or others that the men that Calzaghe fought as WBO champion eg Starie, Reid, Jiminez, Mcintyre, Pudwill+ Manfredo are better than the men that Jones or Hopkins beat as undisputed champions at two different weights.
joe calzaghe was champion at two different weights. he was undisputed champ. he was lineal champ. you can pick names of any of the three boxers resumes & say "he's not good enough". thornton, frazier, telesco, del valle, harmon, brannon, kelly, sosa, byrd...i'd take (former wbc champ) reid over all those guys.
b-hop is near the top of p4p when joe beat him. he's barely a top ten mw (who was getting knocked on his ass by mercado) when jones beat him. which is better?
Hopkins wasn't a world champion+ Jones certainly wasn't so how does beating them make Calzaghe a world champion at light heavyweight?
Calzaghe was briefly undisputed champion at 168lbs + quickly vacated the belts in search of easier paydays against ageing fighters with marquee names.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Robin Reid was better than Toney, Malinga, Hopkins, Del Valle, Lucas, Harding, Joppy, Trinidad etc ? You cannot be serious!!!
"Calzaghe never won any title at 175lbs." i'm sure you'll argue but the ring title is considered a title isn't it? aw whatever...you're just being a douche.
"Are you seriously trying to argue that Robin Reid was better than Toney, Malinga, Hopkins, Del Valle, Lucas, Harding, Joppy, Trinidad etc ? You cannot be serious!!!" no...i'm saying he was better than the guys i said he was better than. are you retarded?
The "Ring Magazine World Title" is not something I take seriously.
"Ring Magazine Title"+ "Lineal" Champion are just marketing terms used to promote what are really non title fights+ fighters who usually are not the best in their division.
Calzaghe nor Hopkins were light heavyweight champions +they were not the best fighters. They purposely avoided the best fighters eg Dawson+ Johnson instead picking ageing opponents+ claiming to be Ring or lineal champions.
"The "Ring Magazine World Title" is not something I take seriously."
i'm sure b-hop & calzaghe will be crying into their cornflakes because some ignorant douche who doesn't know what he's talking about reckons they aren't two weight world champs. you may want to inform the guiness book of records that pac man isn't actually a 7 weight world champ like they thought. thank god they know now huh?
and sorry for being patronising...but when you say things like (for example) b-hop lost to "Jermain Taylor whose main advantage was the ability to box 12 rds at a fast pace". i can't help it.
taylor famously has a stamina problem. b-hop absolutley dominated the later rounds of both fights & was very unlucky to lose twice. if you're praising taylors stamina (over the supremely conditioned b-hop) not only did you obviously not see either fight but you've probably never seen jt box at all.
Taylor beat Hopkins by boxing at a fast pace+ building up a commanding lead going into the second half of the fight. Taylor did tire+ Hopkins did finish strongly but not strongly enough to reduce the points deficit.
Taylor sometimes starts bouts TOO fast+ does not pace himself. He got it right v Wright. He should have beaten Carl Froch, he was several rounds ahead+ only needed to survive to score a wide points win, but he faded badly+ Froch rallied to a late TKO
Jones was the undsiputed champion at 175lbs. He held the WBC, WBA+ IBF belts. He beat all the other title holders.
That made him the man in my view!
The WBO title is lightly regarded and generally held by the weakest of the champions.
Michelcewski was good but he was like many of the european (often german based) fighters who rarely venture outside of Germany+ often avoid fighthing the very best american fighters at their peak.
I don't think Michaelczwski was ever the undisputed champion at 175lbs.
If I am not mistaken he outponted a 30somethinged Virgil Hill at the end of Hill's long championship reign, quickly relinquished the WBA title+ instead chose to defend only the lightly regarded WBO title instead. In typical fashion they lured Hill to Germany with a big payday + then stayed in Germany for the entire WBO reign.
Roy Jones ducked Rocchigani? The same one who had lost on points to Eubank? Oh please...
"I don't think Michaelczwski was ever the undisputed champion at 175lbs".
he was. for over 3 years. he beat hill before rjj...so if dm's win means nothing then rjj's win means less. i don't even rate dm but rjj not facing the true lineal champ at that weight means he wasn't "the man".
"Roy Jones ducked Rocchigani? Oh please..."
rjj refused to fight rocc. the wbc gave him rocc's title anyway. rocc sued. rocc won & got $30m. what does losing to eubank have to do with that?
Micehelcwzski was never the undisputed 175lb champion. He was WBO for the greater part. Typical of most of those German based fighters eg Ottke, Beyer he won a version of the title+ rarely if ever left Germany to defend it or unify the belts;
If you seriously think, one paced+ one dimensional Rocchigiani would have beaten a peak Roy Jones you are delusional.
I suspect Jones refused to fight in Germany because the offical judging there is often biased to home fighters to say the least..
So if you are claiming that Michaelcwski was the unsputed champion at light heavyweight then please remind me who he actually beat to win the WBA. WBC and IBF titles respectively; and during what period did he hold all three belts at the same time?
I don't recall Roy Jones getting many hometown decisions. For 15 years, Jones barely lost a few rounds in any one contest much less lost a fight. The only fortunate decision he got was in the first fight v Tarver where many people belived he lost
Virgil Hill was never the undisputed 175lb champion. For the greater part of his reign he held the WBA belt.
The Germans lured him over to fight IBF champion Henry Maske +Hill outpointed Maske. They lured Hill back to fight Michaelcezwski who won but quickly vacated the WBA+IBF belts, instead fighting for the WBO belt instead.
The reason for that is quite obvious!
Jones had already won the vacant WBC belt+ went on to unify the division...and you have the nerve to call ME dumbass!!!
You don't seem to rate anybody apart from Joe Calzaghe!!!
Jones, Hopkins, Toney, Trinidad etc all long reigning often double+ triple weight, undisputed WBC, IBF, WBA champions to compare to Calzaghe who mainly held one of the least regarded belts at one weight.
I think Calzaghe was very good, but fell short in comaprison with the very best boxers of his era.
Had he continued boxing, I suspect he would have been beaten by the current champions at either 168lbs + certainly 175lbs
dude...dm was undisputed champ. the first at that weight since spinks. he was also the lineal champ.
btw rjj wasn't holding any title when dm beat hill. yet another factual error from a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about.
oh...dm was stripped of his belts..he didn't vacate. one was a bogus political decsion by the wba & the ibf cos he wouldn't face a no-name drug cheat 30 days after he beat hill. why did you think he "vacated"? is it because you're being a bit racist?
dm is a former undisputed champion. it is amazing that you are disputing this...given what it's called.
but hey...if dm wasn't (& he was but i never liked the guy so who cares?) then roy jones wasn't either. joe calzaghe did actually hold all 4 titles at his weight. no argument there, right? he did something rjj could never do & he unified all the titles. he also beat rjj & b-hop. they didn't beat him. thems all facts bitch.
& btw lol at dm ducking del valle. rjj ducked dm tho.
according to the wba (who might know a little bit more than you about these things thn you, no?) you are "undisputed champ" if you hold 2 or more of wba, wbc, ibf & wbo. dm held 3 of them. hope that clears that up.
i believe calzaghe actually defended his title over 20 times. he wasn't jumping around in weight to void the toughest fighters. that was rjj.
oh & whether you regard the ring title or not...it is considered a title.
There are many fighters who have held 2 or more belts eg Hamed, Kessler+ nobody ever called them undisputed champions, the reason for that is that is..THEY NEVER WERE UNDISPUTED CHAMPIONS.
Calzaghe defended the WBO belt 20 times against mainly v mediocre fighters who were well past their best eg Eubank, Brewer, Woodhall or men who were never that good in the first place eg Manfredo, Pudwill, Sheika, Sorbot.
Jones beat reigning champions in 4 divisions so remind me who he ducked again??!!
dm...rocc...eubank...benn...collins (who took to turning up at roy jones press conferences)...nunn (a mandatory who was avoided at two weights)...lilles...calzaghe (jones was offered £6m by warren but turned it down to take on harmon, hll & telesco for less money)...tarver (who was made to jump through hoops)...rematches with toney at a higher weight & b-hop when he wasn't green...oh & any decent hw (rahman & tyson called him out to his face). who did calzaghe duck again?
that wasn't why dm was stripped of the titles...he didn't vacate them at all
rocky won $30m off the wbc over rjj ducking him.
eubank offered rjj a £1m bet that he'd knock him out on live tv.
nunn was twice a mandatory who was ducked by jones.
steve collins chased jones..went to his fights...went to his press conferences. said he'd take a minority purse...called him scared to his face. jones ducked him.
maybe jones didn't have as much faith in his ability as you do.
I think we will agree to disagree as to how good Joe Calzaghe really was when compared against the very best fighters of his era.
I put him below Jones, Hopkins, Toney, Macllum+ Nunn
He was essentially well matched for most of his career After unifying the 168lb title he avoided younger champions+ challengers. Calzaghe showed warrior class in beating Kessler but probably realised he would be eventually beaten if he stayed to face Froch, Pascal, Ward, Tarver, Dawson + retired instead.
he cleaned out that division. there is no-one saying calzaghe ducked them. unlike jones.
& dude...if you don't rate calzaghe...no problem...i don't rate jones & i think he's a drug cheat...but i don't go to roy jones jr videos on youtube & slag him off. probably cos i'm not an ignorant cunt like you.
& maccallum & nunn are calzaghe's generation? nunn retired in 98 after losing to rocc...mccullum retired in 97. once again...you don't know what you're talking about.
After unifying at 168lbs, he wouldn't fight any of the number one contenders eg Froch, Pascal, Ward+ moved up in weight.
He wouldn't fight any of the champions or number 1 contenders at 175lbs either eg Dawson, Johnson, Tarver. Instead he opted for men ageing who were in obvious decline. You are ignorant thats why you use words like "cunt or "retard "because you cannot articulate yourself with standard english.
10 years fighting the likes of Pudwill, Sheika, Veit, Jiminez, Mcintrre, Sorbot etc is not what I call cleaning out the division. Eubank, Woodhall, Brewer were at least 2-3 years past their best when Calzaghe fought them+ Reid was never that good to begin with!
Jones beat the best man at 160, 168+ a host of reigning or future WBC, WBA, IBF champions at 168+175 in Malinga, Del Valle, Lucas, Woods+ won the WBA heavywght title.
There is no real comprison in the overall quality of opponents
"There is no real comprison in the overall quality of opponents".
between calzaghe & jones? that's true. calzaghe fought every mandatory & potential challenger for ten years. if he didn't: who are the guys he ducked?
jones paid off his mandatories & moved about in weight to avoid the biggest challenges & fought a rent-a-cop, a mailman & a garbageman on ppv. no comparison.
btw eubank was "the best man" at mw & sm when rjj was there. rjj didn't beat him...cos he ducked him.
The reason so many British fighters go after the WBO belt is because it is usually by far the easiest to win+ defend. It is rare for a WBO champion to be the best fighter in the divsion
Eubank was the best middlweight? when? better than Nunn, Jones, Macallum, Toney, or Hopkins?
Don't make me laugh!
Eubank saw how top British fighters like Watson+ Graham got KOd when they fought the very best eg Macallum+ Jackson + stayed well away from the elite fighters.
Eubank wasn't a complete fool. He knew his weaknesses+ limitations.
Watdon hurt him+ he ducked Herol Graham. So when he saw these men get Kod against the top americans etc. He preferred to fight the Ray Close+ Dan Cherrys of the boxing world.
Not only did top UK fighters get demolished when they stepped up; boxers like Malinga, Thornton+ Kalamby who gave Eubank Benn+ Graham as much trouble as they could handle were demolished when they challenged eg Nunn, Jones+ Jackson at their peaks.
roy jones jr is drug cheat. he spent his career fighting bums & ducking the best fighters. despite that he still has losses to journeymen like griffin & johnson & was devastingly knocked out by non punchers in tarver & johnson (again).
calzaghe: undefeated, lineal champ, undisputed champ, champ for ten years, 2 weight champ, fought & won in germany & the us and now the measuring stick by which every smw ever will be judged.
So Jones was a bum, Hopkins was a bum, Toney was a bum, Del Valle was a bum, Lucas was a bum, Hill was a bum, Woods was a bum, Malinga was a bum. All the WBC, WBA, IBF world champions all bums??!!
The only "good" fighters were the WBO ranked boxers+ the only great fighter was Calzaghe+ winning the Ring Magazine belt v Hopkins who has won no titles for 5 yeras + nothing at 175lbs makes him the 175lb champion not Chad Dawson who holds the WBC, IBF belts?
never said jones was a bum. said he was a drug cheat who fought bums like frzier, kelly, byrd & yeah famous bum lou del valle.
funny how you said malinga was a old bum when woodhall beat him tho...he was 40 when he faced jones...imo he was a decent pro but he got beat by rocky, benn & eubank in his prime.
& imo the champ makes the belt...not the alphabet...but if you held every title at your weight like calzaghe you were the best at your weight. can't really argue with that.
"Pacman is good. If he beats WBC, WBA, IBF champion then he will be regarded as the best welterwght."
lol. the p4p best in the world isn't good enough because he's "only" wbo champ? you're a joker, dude.
oh...& if eubank, collins, rocky, dm & calzaghe were all bums like you're saying: how come rjj wouldn't fight any of them? that telesco superfight had to happen huh?
now either answer that; talk about something else randomly; or say you're not going to reply but reply anyway.
Pacquiao is very good+ may be the best pound for pound fighter, but is he the best welterweight?
That is yet to be seen.
Beating faded De La Hoya or Hatton at the end of their careers in non title fight proved little nor did beating faded Cotto in a WBO fight.
Let him beat Mosely or, Berto to win a prestigous title.
Historically men men like Duran, De La Hoya, Mosely+ Mayweather won WBC, WBA, IBF titles v reigning champions when moving to 147lbs not minor WBO titles.
yeah...you said the best fighters at a weight were never wbo champs. i pointed out that 4 current wbo champs are considered to be the best fighters at their weight. you can fanny around & go "historically..." all you want...but you're wrong.
either way...calzaghe won every title at smw...so he was the best at the weight...so i don't know why you're going on about it. probably cos you think if you keep on talking that makes you right. it actually makes you retarded.
Of those men you mentioned Klitchko, Bradey, Pacquiao+ Calderon. I would say it is very questionable whether 3 of them are the best at their weight.
I know very little about Calderon.
Calzaghe was the best super middlweight for a short period 2006-2008
He changed weight before facing the next generation of top contenders: Froch, Pascal, Dirrel, Ward; who I think were better than almost all of the men he fought+ when he moved to 175lbs he avoided fighting the champions at that weight.
All with the exception of Rocchigiani were genuine world class. Jones didn't duck them. I would suggest most of them avoded fighting him+ a host of other elite fighters of their era especially Eubank. How many other WBC, WBA, IBF champions or no 1 contenders did these men face collectively?
Why did they not face Nunn, Toney, Jones, Macallum, Hopkins, Jackson, Mcllenan, Dawson at their respective peaks?
why didn't who fight those guys? jones jr? how come HE didn't fight mcllenan? how come HE didn't fight dawson? how come nunn was twice a mandatory for jones' titles but rjj hasn't faced him? how come HE never faced jackson?
rjj was the big us draw for most of the 90's. how the hell can you look back on his career & see toney & b-hop & no other great fighters given the pool of talent that surrounded him? they weren't all ducking him. they all wanted to fight him. he ducked them. the end.
Jones, Hopkins, De La Hoya, Toney, Barrera, Morales. fought more top ranked fighters+ reigning champions over a longer period than most other champions which is why they will be rated as THE greatest of their generation+ amongst the greatest of all time.
Jones held WBC WBA, IBF titles for 15 yrs, he beat Hopkins+ Toney, unified at 175+ won a heavyweight title+ is regarded as greater boxer+ certainly a greater champion than Calzaghe..
As a direct answer to your question: at least Jones faced SOME of those men in their prime eg Hopkins, Toney, Tarver+ Johnson.
Mclennans career was tragically cut short before a Jones fight at 168lbs materialised. Macallum was fading by the time Jones beat him for the WBC title.
Nunn was in serious decline by the time Jones was champion, he had lost to Little+ Liles. He was little real threat to a peak Jones
By the time Dawson was champion at 175Jones was finished at the elite level..
hey...if pac (wbo, ibo champ) isn't the man at welter...how come dawson (ibo champ, very lucky to beat 39-year old johnson) is "the man" at lh? is it cos you're a hypocrite?
& rjj fought johnson is his prime? 36 is prime? ok...he lost anyway...to a journeyman who lost to woods & ottke & b-hop & omar sheika. & rjj lost to tarver...who was schooled by 41 y/o b-hop & 39 y/o johnson. when rjj beat toney he was on a drip before the fight & b-hop was green. who has rjj beat? no-one.
welsh are always awesome boxers
macevandaceCSTAR 5 months ago
@HigherPoker wouldnt want to call him english to his face lol
sabrespartan1 7 months ago
@HigherPoker Joe considers himself Welsh. And anyway what is now England was once the land of the ancient Welsh, the true British. "England" is stolen Welsh territory. Joe is the second greatest British and European boxer, after Jimmy Wilde- from Wales, which has produced at least 4 of the top 10 British boxers ever, Freddie Welsh and Jim Driscoll being others.
mizofan 8 months ago
Veit was robbed here. Joe seemed to get a lot of favourable stoppages.
hawkman350 10 months ago
@hawkman350 Once Joe had someone in trouble it was always one way traffic: once he'd figured his opponents out there could only be one winner. He had relentless will and energy.
mizofan 9 months ago
@hawkman350 Oh, and Veit was robbed too when stopped by Joe in Germany, was he? Veit was no mug, unbeaten till he fought Joe, had another unbeaten run till beaten by Joe again. Veit was one of only 2 boxers to defeat recent world champ Braehmer. But he was no match at all for Joe, who deserves more credit.
mizofan 9 months ago
@mizofan I disagree. He fought in his own back yard all his career then beat two old men in America. One of which, (Hopkins), was robbed. Joe got a lot of favourable stoppages and was clearly protected by corrupt referees and judges. He was a cash cow.
hawkman350 9 months ago
@hawkman350 Joe stopped Veit again in Germany, not Wales. It was only when he was worth more money that Hopkins fought him, having chickened out years before. Joe protected? In the stoppages you complain of he was clearly dominant and it was one-way traffic. Once Joe had his opponent's measure it was always one way traffic, and one inevitable outcome. Hopkins was robbed was he, in his own back yard? He held, hugged, back pedalled, cheated and time wasted when tired and about to be finished.
mizofan 9 months ago
@mizofan You can keep sugar coating it all you want, the stoppages Joe was awarded were disgusting. Veit wasn't even hurt. If Joe wanted to take on all comers why didn't he relocate to the states like that joke amir khan. It seems to be working for him and he's pretty crap!
hawkman350 9 months ago
@hawkman350 it doesnt matter how "hard" the punches are or if his opponent was "hurt"
the rules are there for a reason, you cant have these young lads just going in there and getting repeatedly punched in the face and expect to just let the fight go on
this isnt MMA, boxers suffer long-term brain damage from taking too much blunt trauma to the head, his opponent was NEVER in the fight
i mean ffs, did Veit even land a flush punch?!
cazz3000 9 months ago
@cazz3000 It was just a typical victory by Joe. He always got favourable treatment because he was protected under warren. Veits tactics could have been to let Joe punch himself out, then come on strong in the later rounds. He was robbed of his opportunity.
hawkman350 9 months ago
@hawkman350 haha, oh yer, cause thats always been a wise tactic hasnt it?
"my opponent has been training to hit me consistently for 12 rounds...lets hope he cant"
unless you're Mr Ali, i refuse to consider that a serious gameplan
Calzaghe was the better fighter, end of
cazz3000 9 months ago
@hawkman350 So you think this was Veit's brilliant tactic, to let Joe punch himself out- by being knocked down twice and taking another barrage when refs routinely stop fights at that point! You really are completely deluded. And he was stopped again at home in a rematch! Joe had incredible stamina, wasn't gonna punch himself out anyway. You've just shown how desperate Joe's biased and idiotic haters are to convince themselves he wasn't a great fighter. Your comment is a gift to Joe's fans
mizofan 8 months ago
@hawkman350 Veit had his ass handed to him in both Calzaghe fights.. What are you smoking?
EPmassive 6 months ago
@hawkman350 Jones wasn't much older than Joe- both in their late 30s, Joe past his prime too, whereas Hopkins has been exceptional for his age. Why would Joe need protecting when dominating his fights? Hopkins couldn't cope with Joe's heart and pace, the 2nd half of the fight was one way, and constant time wasting and taking minutes for a rest is hardly the sign of a winner. Joe was adaptable, overcame hand trouble- a lot of people just don't like his style so don't give him proper credit.
mizofan 9 months ago
Haters gonna hate
Calzaghe was simply a great fighter!
MrKarlozz 10 months ago 4
joe is a southpaw like me
kokomanation 11 months ago
b hop is a fake
alders4life 11 months ago
veit wasnt world class why did joe have to fight him twice someone at the wbo mustve been paid off with nazi gold
4180stephen 1 year ago
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@4180stephen b hop is fake
alders4life 11 months ago
@4180stephen Veit was unbeaten in 30 fights and in his prime when stopped by Joe, had another unbeaten run till stopped by Joe again in his own country, and beat Braehmer, the Light Heavyweight champ. Whoever Joe beat, his detractors try to diminish his opponents- but Kessler won back the super middle title and Hopkins has now won a title again 3 years after losing to Joe. There was noone around good enough for Joe. Hopkins avoided him till the big money and he could use age as an excuse.
mizofan 9 months ago
@mizofan i agree with all ur points but veit after being blown away should never have got a rematch he wasnt in joes class obviously veits manager/promoter greased the wheels and got there man another shot when there was no chance of him winning i dont think joe wanted or needed to fight him a second time
4180stephen 9 months ago
@4180stephen Yes, Joe was obviously too good for him, but Veit's record after their fight pushed him back up to main contender status, in the absence of others good enough, and fighters like Jones and Hopkins (avoided fight lined up with Joe) not being available.
mizofan 9 months ago
@4180stephen mario veit's promoter klaus peter kohl forced joe calzaghe to fight mario veit it was a 100% deal made by universum box promotion and the wbo calzaghe was upset because they destroyed his dreams fighting either jones or hopkins in the usa he was looking forward to, he came to germany and brutally beat up mario a second time! also former wba and ibf super middleweight champion sven ottke ducked calzaghe he run off and retired
erwillrockn 9 months ago
@erwillrockn Well said. Joe's critics have completely warped the truth with their desperate delusions. Joe was a class above possible contenders round Super Middleweight during his career.
mizofan 8 months ago 6
@mizofan Greatest Super Middleweight ever.
Lcowand1 1 week ago
Veit beat Juergen Braehmer not long after this fight, Braehmer is a current Light Heavyweight champion so Veit is a good opponent.
RichCwm 1 year ago
Full respect to Calzaghe: a great fighter and champion.
Veit was like a lesser prototype of Kessler: big guy with no head movement. Unfortunately, he had none of Kessler's power.
artofpoetry 1 year ago
He may have been a good boxer, but he wasn't a good fighter, and thats what the yanks like,... who doesn't...i have never liked the bloke because i recon he's a bighead, and i hate mouthy bigheads, but he hasn;t knocked enough people out to be remembered as a great champion.in my view, unlike the bigheads, BHop and Mayweather.
hugoforth 1 year ago
Calzaghe was wthout doubt in the same league as Jones & Hopkins in there Prime.Its a great shame they never fought if they did who would of one was anybodys guess as they where all equal with different strenghts. All i can say is that when Jones and Hopkins where at the peak of there career the Calzaghe fight never happened yet strangely when Calzaghe carrer peaked they did and they lost go figure my pedigree chums lol
garyceaton1 1 year ago
Of his first 50 fights Veit only lost to Joe, x2, and beat the current light heavy champ. Joe beat Kessler who beat Froch who is now world champ again, having destroyed Abraham who ko'd Taylor who beat Hopkins x2. Froch beat Pascal who beat Dawson and Taylor. Joe was clearly the best there's been at supermiddle, dominated the division, then moved up a weight to beat Hopkins and Jones who avoided him in his prime, in their own country. Hopkins then beat Pavlik who was supposed to beat Joe.
mizofan 1 year ago 2
i dont drink im just a normal guy that hs seen calzaghe around my town lording it up and saying do you know who i am to everyone he meets and i hate that shit so i like to knock him out hes a bag of piss and wind and his dads a cunt too i think on a good night i could beat them both there a family of jews
jamierees35 1 year ago
I WAS THERE PISSED OFF ONE FUKIN ROUND
down4daROBERY 1 year ago
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jamie35, defo one 2 many stella son, keep to beating the sheep with your b@llbag, i would knock u out and i'm only 9 stone lol, joe calzaghe was a top boxer, proved time and time again, never on the canvas a true champion
RyanShadow 1 year ago
jamie35, defo one 2 many stella son, keep to beating the sheep with your b@llbag, i would knock u out and i'm only 9 stone lol, joe calzaghe was a top boxer, proved time and time again, never on the canvas a true champion
RyanShadow 1 year ago
To all you Calzagne nut huggers. Can you honestly say that Mario Veit are wothy of 2 "Title" shots? That's the WBOgus for ya. And that's why Calzagne was undefeated. Because he fought bums, tomato cans, No-hopers, & washed up fighters for most of his career.
Chauncey1966 1 year ago
@Chauncey1966 he beat 15 world champs in his career and fought hopkins and jones at the end of his career because they were too scared to fight him when they were younger cos he would have finished them off then.he wasn't much younger than them either and look at the way he slaughtered the supposedly invinsible jeff lacy.
fringecakeboy 1 year ago 6
@fringecakeboy come on come on come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just to say that calzaghe had even a little chance to survive a fight against a prime RJJ, make me wonder if ur a troll, or just stupid
olwe666 1 year ago
@olwe666 MIGHT BE STUPID CUNT,BUT AT LEAST I'M NOT A YANK
fringecakeboy 3 months ago
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@Chauncey1966 Veit was unbeaten in 45 fights except v Joe and also beat Braehmer, current WBO light heavy champ.
Joe beat Sheika who beat Johnson who beat Tarver + Jones.
Joe beat Eubank who beat Benn who beat McLellan, Benn also beat Barkley who beat Hearns x2
Joe beat Kessler who beat Froch who beat Taylor who beat Hopkins x2, Froch also beat Pascal who beat Dawson
Anyway you look at it, Joe was simply too good, for everyone; no wonder Hopkins chickened out of fighting him years earlier
mizofan 1 year ago
@Chauncey1966 most of boxing involves fighting cans and washed up fighters mate. But finishing your career by beating Hopkins who was still very relevant/Kessler and RJJ, among Lacy/Manfredo without ever taking a loss surely seals him as one of the best at that weight ever.
mazzadude 1 year ago
@mazzadude Much credit to him for beating Kessler but Lacy was all hype, Jones & Hopkins was washed up, & you must be joking about Manfredo. Wasn't he the guy from that Contender reality series? Calzagne would never be considered an all time great outside of europe because he fought has beens & no-hopers for much of his career. Had he made the big fights when people was in their prime & lost, he still would have gotten respect for trying like Hatton & Bruno did. Manfredo!! ROFLMAO!!!
Chauncey1966 1 year ago
@Chauncey1966 I wouldn't call a guy who just beat Tarver, then after losing to calzague and then beat Pavlic washed up. Hopkins was a top fighter at that time.
mazzadude 1 year ago
@Chauncey1966 Hopkins NOT washed up bless..
PhflyDan1 1 year ago
@Chauncey1966 Hopkins washed up 3 years ago was he? Strange he's just won the title, then. Ha, Joe's detractors can't keep trotting out the feeble excuses. There was simply noone good enough to match him.
mizofan 9 months ago
@Chauncey1966 Veit won all his first 50 fights except Joe, beat the current light heavy champ. Joe not only beat the best, but the ones he beat also beat all the others who were supposed to be any good.
mizofan 1 year ago
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Philcoool take a look at my boxing videos.
philcoool 1 year ago
im from wales and ive never boxed ever but i could know this joe out in three come out of retirement and give me a shot a boxer vs a normal guy from the streets bring it on heres my numbe 02920 653009 call me anytime im not after money i just know i can beat your ass in three
jamierees35 1 year ago
@jamierees35 - pipe down big balls had one to many stellas by the sounds of it.
Jamietheboi91 1 year ago
fuck him
movieman7000 1 year ago
fuck roy jones
movieman7000 1 year ago
Joe exposed this bum with an inflated record.
Jorsalfar 1 year ago
ur son of a bitch calzaaghe using cocaine fuck u men
jawaraeliz 1 year ago
ur son of a bitch calzaaghe using cocaine fuck u men
jawaraeliz 1 year ago
hey hey come on now letz not forget b-hop, jones and calzaghe all suck arse. dont matter who ducked who they all suck arse. dont like calzaghe dont watch his videos simple? wrong calzaghe suckz and i didnt watch the video asspuppet.
derpotni3riots 1 year ago
America, you had Ali
you had Sugar Ray Robinson
face facts and admit that G.B. has produced the greatest light heavyweight boxer of all time.
Khonnell 1 year ago
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@Khonnell please stop riding joe calzaghes coat tails with your crack fein talk and your roy jones jr blasphomes. roy was 49-0 before he got old. he woulda been way too fast and way too powerful for mighty joe if they both fought in their primes. i just watched a video here on youtube with roy jones jr highlights in his prime and then i watched joe calzaghes in his prime and its comical to say joe woulda beat roy in their primes
smackbones 1 year ago
man so so so many jokes on youtube pretending to know a lot about boxing when in reality they know fuckall. get educated before making a comment. and that means doing some more research other than playing fight night on the ps3
ruideng111 1 year ago
Veit: "Jah, schones knackgenbrotgens essen schon ja"
Calzaghe: *Bam*
Lieven29 1 year ago
hopkins got played
ninojalisco 1 year ago
i noticed sum1 was talkin bout people duckin calzaghe so if sumbody wants to defend him explain why for the last 2 years of his carrer why he ducked carl froch?
howyamean 1 year ago
@howyamean because froch was a nobody and still is, proof of that is that he lost to kessler someone calzaghe easily beat
ashleyaolcom 1 year ago
@howyamean ahah froch would get whooped.
88stockmj 1 year ago
@88stockmj dont matter joe still ducked him.....and went for the washed up ex champs pussy
howyamean 1 year ago
@howyamean It wasn't even a contest froch is too limited.
88stockmj 1 year ago
you can tell calzaghe has lost alot of his power in later years (due to the hand injurys probably)...its a shame..I would've liked to have seen him KO hopkins lol instead of the points win
c64c64c64 1 year ago
this guy's legacy is very polarizing. I'd say he was pretty damn good. He wasn't fighting total bums, def the best in europe but it's difficult to compare him to all time greats. I like him because he was a unique fighter that had fast hands that overwhelmed many of his opponents. Looked as if he could take a punch too.
DaveStearman 1 year ago
Clazone is an amateur.
flarbton 1 year ago
@flarbton
Who's Clazone?
fep70 1 year ago
i hate ref stoppages like that and jones v green
dotole 2 years ago
He taught that fucking hitler a lesson!!
CYMRU619 2 years ago
hahaha wtf
donnywharfare 2 years ago
d p4p king is pacquiao dudes
asiole15 2 years ago
joe calzaghe has got to be one of the best boxers that's ever lived, pound for pound, alongside ali, tyson, lewis and mayweather.
thebutterbean234 2 years ago 15
joe calzaghi is one of the best fighters of all time he gave jeff lacy a boxing lesson and i am a lacy fan, he is up there with ali marcianno and any other great hard fighters he is one of the only few fighters that when hit would come back and try to knock you out not even the great ali did that
richsam83 2 years ago 5
Buddy that is the most honest comment on Calzaghe I have read. I agree he is definately one of the all time best. I did not realise how good he was until the Lacy fight which to be honest I did not expect him to win.
skelter74 2 years ago
Joe Calzaghe will be rated one of the best British+ perhaps European boxers of all time, but falls well short when compared to the greatest fighters of all time. For most of his career he held a minor belt+ avoided the best fighters at 168 or 175lbs eg Jones, Michelcewski, Ottke, Tarver, Johnson or Dawson.
Jeff Lacey was wildy over-rated. Calzaghe's best win was v Kessler who was a very good boxer, but whose limitations i.e one paced+ predictable movement were exposed by the speed of Ward.
07091102 2 years ago
calzaghe avoided ottke? you must be kidding. joe openly chased ottke for years...it was ottke ducking calzaghe if anything.
jones is the one who famously ducked michalczewski & rocchigiani too ..dawson is a guy who called out calzaghe after he retired...tarver spent years chasing jones and being forced to jump through hoops to get a shot at rjj..& johnson was just a journeyman till he sparked rjj & he's the only guy who can say joe ducked him...it's not really true...but he can say it.
djmactone 2 years ago
lol dont even compare Calslappy and Gayweather to them...fucking noobs theses days
Rubdini401 2 years ago
ok yeah both 'calsappy' and 'gayweather' are undefeated, and urrrm didn't tyson, ali and lewis all lost at some point in their career? calzaghe and mayweather are both undefeated at professional level, so how can they not be compared to those 3? get over it, you're living in the olden days mate
thebutterbean234 2 years ago
If Kessler wins the Super Six Tournament, what would that do for Joe's reputation?
musik102 2 years ago
A lot... I thought about that a while ago. He has a bigger vested interest in this tournament than anyone other than the fighters in it.
A lot of people disregard the Kessler win, because he is so untested and doesn't have a great resume. If he wins this tournament, it'll easily be Calzaghe's best win.
DWiens421 2 years ago
bonker 123456 touches children
frenchielcfc 2 years ago
haha!
JammyFitzer 2 years ago
He is a lover of Bobnsinno who has many names like cowardzaghe who again hides behind false names both are a couple of gay pricks.
Ry42Back 2 years ago
anyone who says calzaghe is a bum is a fool.a fucking fool.
dougens 2 years ago 4
Lol, anybody else think Mario Veit kind of looks like Kessler?
K2ThaPhukkinC 2 years ago
he knock fuck out of you ya faggot
jtrant21923 2 years ago
he fought bums untill the best got old, good boxer but not world class, he will be forgoten in a year or 2, unlike tyson roy jones, ali,lewis, sugar, like it or not. its the truth.
bonker123456 2 years ago
lool you mean the same tyson who got knocked out by danny williams and douglas? and lewis? who did tyson ever beat? no one. calzaghes best boxer ever mate hes got better record than any mug on your list. record matters over opinion because everyone has opinions. thing is your opinion means fuckall and joes record means everything
frenchielcfc 2 years ago
you know fuck all about boxing mate, and if you think you do think again. look at the vids on here of tyson, like it not and i dont really give a fuck, mike tyson was 1 of the best fighters ever. who did he beat you say???? i aint got the time, the list goes on and on and on.... proves you know fuck all about boxing. and my opinion??? 2 last words FUCK OFF
bonker123456 2 years ago
tyson beat nobody after nobody. my point is even the best boxers get beat. exept calzaghe
frenchielcfc 2 years ago
n Lopez
Christofides1 2 years ago
listen here you little prick, if i ever find out where you live ill pull ya fucking bollox off after wot you said about me, ive all ready reported you, and ive read ya profile page. i see the comments about you. you wana watch dude.... now fuck off you dirty little cunt!!!!!
bonker123456 2 years ago
you say calzaghe fought bums & he'll be forgotten unlike roy jones jr? roy jones jr fought so many bums...more than calzaghe. hell, i'd say veit was more of a live opponent than 90% of the guys rjj fought on ppv. 9 former champs &every mandatory thrown his way vs a mailman & a rent-a-cop.
& joe calazghe only fought bums until the best got old unlike mike tyson? dude, tyson knocked out cans & oaps for a couple of years then got beat by every good fighter he faced for the rest of his career.
djmactone 2 years ago 4
A peak Roy Jones easily beats Calzaghe.
Simply look at Jones wins v Hopkins, Toney, Johnson. Griffin. Sosa + the ease in which he demolished fighters like Thornton+ Malinga, who gave fighters like Benn+ Eubank considerable difficulties at their respective peaks.
Jones fought in a weak 175lb division+ was criticised for some poor oppenents however the masterclass he gave Clinton Woods who went on to become champion is testament to the fact he would take some beating at that weight too..
07091102 2 years ago
b-hop was very green & nowhere near the fighter he became. the b-hop calzaghe beat was a much better fighter than the b-hop jones beat.
toney was weight drained & none of the other fighters you named is in any way a name. is merqui sosa better than mitchell, kessler, lacy, eubank, woodhall or reid? no.
griifin did nothing other than get a fluke win over jones in the first place & clinton woods? he was alright but nothing special. & thats among the best rjj beat. remember roycott?
djmactone 2 years ago
Hopkins was not inexpericned at all when he fought Jones. He was not at his peak, but he won the middlweight title shortly after.
Eubank, Woodhall, Mitchell, Brewer were all in marked decline by the time they fought Calzaghe+ still manged to floor him or take him the distance.
Kessler was the best opponent.
Much of Calzaghes career v men that were barely top 10 much less world class.
Jones fought a far higher level of boxer than Calzaghe for a longer time+ held more prestigous belts..
07091102 2 years ago
the b-hop clzaghe beat was MUCH MUCH better than the b-hop rjj beat. how can you even think of arguing with that?
"Jones fought a far higher level of boxer than Calzaghe". who? thornton? telesco? sosa? frazier? i'd take veit over them. non puncher del valle made rjj do the chicken dance and fall on his ass. a 40 year old macullum took jones the distance. jones was never lineal champion, ducked every proper contender for years & when he stopped fighting bums he started getting knocked out.
djmactone 2 years ago
You seem to be arguing that ex champion Bernard Hopkins at 42 was better than at 26 + on the verge of winning his first title(??!)
Jones demolished Malinga+ Thornton who went on to give a peak Benn+ Eubank all maner of problems + Malinga won the WBC title.
Then there was Toney, Johnson, Griffin, Sosa, Hill, Woods+ you claim Veit was better than these??!!
Kessler was Calzaghes best oppnent+ he was trounced by the speedy Andre Ward. Does that mean Ward is better than Calzaghe or Jones?
07091102 2 years ago
hopkins at 42 > hopkins at 26. if you think different: you're retarded.
triangle theories don't work. johnson beat rjj...woods beat johnson...is woods better than jones?
& de valle was a competent boxer? so was veit. unbeaten when he faced calzaghe. how many unbeaten guys did jones beat? not many. how many former champs? again...not many. there was a widely publicised campaign about him fighting bums (roycott) & he ducked real contenders...too many to list here. who did cal duck?
djmactone 2 years ago
It is difficult to credibly argue that any athlete in any sport is better at age 42 than at age 26.
Bernard Hopkins is no exception by the time he fought Calzaghe he had been beaten twice by Jermain Taylor whose main advantage was the ability to box 12 rds at a fast pace, somthing which 42 year old Hopkins could no longer do.
Lou Del Valle was the reigning WBA champion when he fought Jones+ had only lost once on pts to a peak Virgil Hill. After that he didn't lose again for 5 years...
07091102 2 years ago
you think b-hop was better at 26? you're wrong. his whole style is about experience. he says himself he is much better now...how many best of the 90's lists was he on in 1999? how many best of the 00's lists is he on now? whats that tell you?
oh...& b-hop won at least one of those taylor fights...but tbh hopkins learned from that anyway & got better. he was nothing special at 26. funny how he was able to do 12 rds at a fast pace against pavlik tho, no?
djmactone 2 years ago
Hopkins was better at 26 than he was at 42! After losing to Jones he won the IBF in his next fight+ held it for 10 years. He must have been pretty good!
Claims that he is better now are simply to sell tickets. A peak Hopkins would have beaten Taylor+ Calzaghe + not avoided fighting the 175lb champions. Hopkins can still win relatively slow tactical fights eg v Wright, Tarver+ Pavlik; But he cannot sustain a fast pace for 12 rounds into his 40's eg v Taylor+Calzaghe who he dominated early on..
07091102 2 years ago
regarding b-hop you are wrong. your opinion is wrong & the "facts" you are using to back up your opinion are also wrong. "After losing to Jones he won the IBF in his next fight". nope. not true. you have no idea what you are talking about.
djmactone 2 years ago
I stand corrected.
Hopkins won the IBF title about a year after losing to Jones. After winning the 160lb title v Hopkins, Jones moved up to the 168lb decision + Hopkins won the vacant crown v Mercado I think. He held that title for a long time, probably the longest reign since Hagler.
The big difference though is that Hagler was the undisputed champion for many years. As was Roy Jones at 175lbs which is why he s rated as one of THE best pound for pound boxers of the entire decade.
07091102 2 years ago
mercado was nothing special & b-hop struggled against him first time out. i don't know why you don't get that he improved with age.
hopkins was considered to be a paper champ until he beat trinidad...everyone thought he was going to get beat in that fight. & the tarver fight. he got better as he got older & people respected him more too. only an absolute idiot thinks that rjj faced a "prime" b-hop. but i shouldn't have to tell you this...i'm not your boxing history teacher.
djmactone 2 years ago
Jones beat a good Hopkins for the IBF title. It is probably true that Hopkins improved over time+ there should have been a rematch but Hopkins was still a very good fighter.
Trinidad came with a fearsome reputation, much deserved given he had knocked out almost every welterweight he faced+ won light middle + middleweight titles by KO in stunning fashion v Vargas+ then Joppy. Prior to that win Hopkins reputation was as a formidable but defensive+ ocaasionall dull champion.
07091102 2 years ago
no...b-hop wasn't rated by anyone. he was considered to be a guy who only took on guys coming up in weight. he wasn't even on most peoples radar until he beat holmes in 01 (i think). everyone was waiting for him to get destroyed by trinidad & that win put him on the map.
but mw was very poor back then...trinidad was over-rated...as was joppy...imo his best win is tarver at lh...most of his early years he's fighting the same guys over & over like allen & echols.
djmactone 2 years ago
The fact that Hopkins had been champion for five years meant he was respected. His problem was his defensive style that wasn't always nice to watch+ the lack of marquee names on his record. Echols+ Allen were competent challengers but not big names. I knew all about him from the Jones fight.
Trinidad wasn't over-rated. He was deadly at the lower weights possibly the biggest puncher since Hearns. Joppy was fast+ skilfull too.
Hopkins stepped up+ gave them both a boxing masterclass..
07091102 2 years ago
no offence but you obviously weren't following b-hop's career at the time. you clearly have no idea what you are talking about regarding him. i can only tell you what people were saying at the time...you can choose to believe me or not...you seem quite new to boxing so maybe you'll get it later.
trinidad & joppy? imo means "in my opinion". but whatever.
djmactone 2 years ago
I have been watching Hopkins since 1993+ , so I am not sure what it is that you claim I don't know what I am talking about.
I saw Hopkins beat men like Jackson, Vanderpool, Echols, Allen, Brown. He was effective without always being entertaining. It was the unification series where he beat Holmes, Joppy+ Trinidad where he really elevated his status. He was always good but there were more entertaining pound for pound fighters eg De la Hoya, Jones, Trinidad, Toney, Barrera, Morales, Hamed etc
07091102 2 years ago
b-hop was an undercard boxer fighting b-level fighters during the 90's. when he wins that title he wasn't that good. by the time he moved up to lh he was a premier counter puncher. he is much more technically sound & is better conditioned now than in his 20's. he was a late starter & a late bloomer. you're a fool if you think he was better in the 90's.
"I am not sure what it is that you claim I don't know what I am talking about."
dude there is so much.
djmactone 2 years ago
"Dude there is so much?"
You are patronising.
You are never going to convince me or I suspect most informed obersvers that Bernard Hopkins at 42 is better than he was at 28. He wouldn't have lost v Calzaghe or Taylor back then.
Equally you are not going to convince me or others that the men that Calzaghe fought as WBO champion eg Starie, Reid, Jiminez, Mcintyre, Pudwill+ Manfredo are better than the men that Jones or Hopkins beat as undisputed champions at two different weights.
07091102 2 years ago
joe calzaghe was champion at two different weights. he was undisputed champ. he was lineal champ. you can pick names of any of the three boxers resumes & say "he's not good enough". thornton, frazier, telesco, del valle, harmon, brannon, kelly, sosa, byrd...i'd take (former wbc champ) reid over all those guys.
b-hop is near the top of p4p when joe beat him. he's barely a top ten mw (who was getting knocked on his ass by mercado) when jones beat him. which is better?
djmactone 2 years ago
Calzaghe never won any title at 175lbs.
Hopkins wasn't a world champion+ Jones certainly wasn't so how does beating them make Calzaghe a world champion at light heavyweight?
Calzaghe was briefly undisputed champion at 168lbs + quickly vacated the belts in search of easier paydays against ageing fighters with marquee names.
Are you seriously trying to argue that Robin Reid was better than Toney, Malinga, Hopkins, Del Valle, Lucas, Harding, Joppy, Trinidad etc ? You cannot be serious!!!
07091102 2 years ago
"Calzaghe never won any title at 175lbs." i'm sure you'll argue but the ring title is considered a title isn't it? aw whatever...you're just being a douche.
"Are you seriously trying to argue that Robin Reid was better than Toney, Malinga, Hopkins, Del Valle, Lucas, Harding, Joppy, Trinidad etc ? You cannot be serious!!!" no...i'm saying he was better than the guys i said he was better than. are you retarded?
djmactone 2 years ago
The "Ring Magazine World Title" is not something I take seriously.
"Ring Magazine Title"+ "Lineal" Champion are just marketing terms used to promote what are really non title fights+ fighters who usually are not the best in their division.
Calzaghe nor Hopkins were light heavyweight champions +they were not the best fighters. They purposely avoided the best fighters eg Dawson+ Johnson instead picking ageing opponents+ claiming to be Ring or lineal champions.
"Douche?" how pathetic...
07091102 2 years ago
"The "Ring Magazine World Title" is not something I take seriously."
i'm sure b-hop & calzaghe will be crying into their cornflakes because some ignorant douche who doesn't know what he's talking about reckons they aren't two weight world champs. you may want to inform the guiness book of records that pac man isn't actually a 7 weight world champ like they thought. thank god they know now huh?
djmactone 2 years ago
and sorry for being patronising...but when you say things like (for example) b-hop lost to "Jermain Taylor whose main advantage was the ability to box 12 rds at a fast pace". i can't help it.
taylor famously has a stamina problem. b-hop absolutley dominated the later rounds of both fights & was very unlucky to lose twice. if you're praising taylors stamina (over the supremely conditioned b-hop) not only did you obviously not see either fight but you've probably never seen jt box at all.
djmactone 2 years ago
More patronisation I see.
Taylor beat Hopkins by boxing at a fast pace+ building up a commanding lead going into the second half of the fight. Taylor did tire+ Hopkins did finish strongly but not strongly enough to reduce the points deficit.
Taylor sometimes starts bouts TOO fast+ does not pace himself. He got it right v Wright. He should have beaten Carl Froch, he was several rounds ahead+ only needed to survive to score a wide points win, but he faded badly+ Froch rallied to a late TKO
07091102 2 years ago
sorry...rjj was not the guy at 175. dm was lineal champ & roy ducked him. end of.
djmactone 2 years ago
Jones was the undsiputed champion at 175lbs. He held the WBC, WBA+ IBF belts. He beat all the other title holders.
That made him the man in my view!
The WBO title is lightly regarded and generally held by the weakest of the champions.
Michelcewski was good but he was like many of the european (often german based) fighters who rarely venture outside of Germany+ often avoid fighthing the very best american fighters at their peak.
I would put also Ottke+Beyer in this category.
07091102 2 years ago
dm was undisputed champ at lh when roy was at mw. dm was lineal champ. roy only got a belt because dm was stripped of alphabet titles.
dm was the guy who beat virgil hill ("the man at 175" according to you) & end of the day...roy jones ducked him.
rjj ducked rocchigiani too...& got a title out of it...rocc sued the wbc over that & won. rjj wasn't "the man" at 175.
djmactone 2 years ago
I don't think Michaelczwski was ever the undisputed champion at 175lbs.
If I am not mistaken he outponted a 30somethinged Virgil Hill at the end of Hill's long championship reign, quickly relinquished the WBA title+ instead chose to defend only the lightly regarded WBO title instead. In typical fashion they lured Hill to Germany with a big payday + then stayed in Germany for the entire WBO reign.
Roy Jones ducked Rocchigani? The same one who had lost on points to Eubank? Oh please...
07091102 2 years ago
"I don't think Michaelczwski was ever the undisputed champion at 175lbs".
he was. for over 3 years. he beat hill before rjj...so if dm's win means nothing then rjj's win means less. i don't even rate dm but rjj not facing the true lineal champ at that weight means he wasn't "the man".
"Roy Jones ducked Rocchigani? Oh please..."
rjj refused to fight rocc. the wbc gave him rocc's title anyway. rocc sued. rocc won & got $30m. what does losing to eubank have to do with that?
djmactone 2 years ago
Micehelcwzski was never the undisputed 175lb champion. He was WBO for the greater part. Typical of most of those German based fighters eg Ottke, Beyer he won a version of the title+ rarely if ever left Germany to defend it or unify the belts;
If you seriously think, one paced+ one dimensional Rocchigiani would have beaten a peak Roy Jones you are delusional.
I suspect Jones refused to fight in Germany because the offical judging there is often biased to home fighters to say the least..
07091102 2 years ago
"Micehelcwzski was never the undisputed 175lb champion."
yes he was.
i don't think dm got many "hometown" decisions either.
djmactone 2 years ago
So if you are claiming that Michaelcwski was the unsputed champion at light heavyweight then please remind me who he actually beat to win the WBA. WBC and IBF titles respectively; and during what period did he hold all three belts at the same time?
I don't recall Roy Jones getting many hometown decisions. For 15 years, Jones barely lost a few rounds in any one contest much less lost a fight. The only fortunate decision he got was in the first fight v Tarver where many people belived he lost
07091102 2 years ago
dm beat virgil hill...dumbass. lineal champ & undisputed champ. are you kidding?
name one "hometown" decision dm got...
you've already named the tarver decision so rjj is one up on "hometown" decisions.
either way...i don't rate dm...you don't rate dm...but he beat almost everyone rjj beat at lh. so how can you respect that resume?
djmactone 2 years ago
Virgil Hill was never the undisputed 175lb champion. For the greater part of his reign he held the WBA belt.
The Germans lured him over to fight IBF champion Henry Maske +Hill outpointed Maske. They lured Hill back to fight Michaelcezwski who won but quickly vacated the WBA+IBF belts, instead fighting for the WBO belt instead.
The reason for that is quite obvious!
Jones had already won the vacant WBC belt+ went on to unify the division...and you have the nerve to call ME dumbass!!!
07091102 2 years ago
You don't seem to rate anybody apart from Joe Calzaghe!!!
Jones, Hopkins, Toney, Trinidad etc all long reigning often double+ triple weight, undisputed WBC, IBF, WBA champions to compare to Calzaghe who mainly held one of the least regarded belts at one weight.
I think Calzaghe was very good, but fell short in comaprison with the very best boxers of his era.
Had he continued boxing, I suspect he would have been beaten by the current champions at either 168lbs + certainly 175lbs
07091102 2 years ago
dude...dm was undisputed champ. the first at that weight since spinks. he was also the lineal champ.
btw rjj wasn't holding any title when dm beat hill. yet another factual error from a guy who doesn't know what he's talking about.
oh...dm was stripped of his belts..he didn't vacate. one was a bogus political decsion by the wba & the ibf cos he wouldn't face a no-name drug cheat 30 days after he beat hill. why did you think he "vacated"? is it because you're being a bit racist?
djmactone 2 years ago
Michaelcwski was never the undisputed champion. He never held all 3 titles. FACT
He won two belts from Hill+ quickly vacated them, instead choosing to fight for the WBO belt only for the rest of his career.
I would suggest he vacated because he knew the WBA, IBF titles would be far more diffcult to defend than the WBO belt.
It is unlikley he would have beaten Jones, Del Valle, Tarver, Johnson etc so he gave up the belts+ faced lesser boxers instead.
Racist? You are talking rubbish!!
07091102 2 years ago
dm is a former undisputed champion. it is amazing that you are disputing this...given what it's called.
but hey...if dm wasn't (& he was but i never liked the guy so who cares?) then roy jones wasn't either. joe calzaghe did actually hold all 4 titles at his weight. no argument there, right? he did something rjj could never do & he unified all the titles. he also beat rjj & b-hop. they didn't beat him. thems all facts bitch.
& btw lol at dm ducking del valle. rjj ducked dm tho.
djmactone 2 years ago
Michaelcewski never ever the undisputed 175lb champion: FACT.
He won WBA, IBF belts from Hill, vacated both+ fought only for WBO belt: FACT.
Jones DID WIN all three belts + held WBC, WBA+IBF belts at 175lbs FACT, therefore HE WAS the undisputed champion: FACT.
Joe Calzaghe in beating Lacey+ Kessler was undisputed 168lb champion FACT. He vacated all belts+ never defended any of them: FACT.
He beat Hopkins+ Jones several years after both of them had lost all of their titles. FACT.
07091102 2 years ago
according to the wba (who might know a little bit more than you about these things thn you, no?) you are "undisputed champ" if you hold 2 or more of wba, wbc, ibf & wbo. dm held 3 of them. hope that clears that up.
i believe calzaghe actually defended his title over 20 times. he wasn't jumping around in weight to void the toughest fighters. that was rjj.
oh & whether you regard the ring title or not...it is considered a title.
djmactone 2 years ago
There are many fighters who have held 2 or more belts eg Hamed, Kessler+ nobody ever called them undisputed champions, the reason for that is that is..THEY NEVER WERE UNDISPUTED CHAMPIONS.
Calzaghe defended the WBO belt 20 times against mainly v mediocre fighters who were well past their best eg Eubank, Brewer, Woodhall or men who were never that good in the first place eg Manfredo, Pudwill, Sheika, Sorbot.
Jones beat reigning champions in 4 divisions so remind me who he ducked again??!!
07091102 2 years ago
who did jones duck?
dm...rocc...eubank...benn...collins (who took to turning up at roy jones press conferences)...nunn (a mandatory who was avoided at two weights)...lilles...calzaghe (jones was offered £6m by warren but turned it down to take on harmon, hll & telesco for less money)...tarver (who was made to jump through hoops)...rematches with toney at a higher weight & b-hop when he wasn't green...oh & any decent hw (rahman & tyson called him out to his face). who did calzaghe duck again?
djmactone 2 years ago
Michaelcewski vacated his WBA, IBF titles immediately rather than having to defend them against Jones+ the top 175lb fighters.
Rocchiagani was medoicre, thats why Eubank was happy to face him in Germany.
Eubank himself ducked about every top 160+ 168lb lb fighter of his era eg Nunn, Toney, Macllum, even Kalambay+ Graham!
Nunn? Nunn had no title+ was in steep decline by the time Jones was Champion see v Little+Liles. Toney was a far greater threat than Nunn
Steve Collins? ha, ha ha!
07091102 2 years ago
that wasn't why dm was stripped of the titles...he didn't vacate them at all
rocky won $30m off the wbc over rjj ducking him.
eubank offered rjj a £1m bet that he'd knock him out on live tv.
nunn was twice a mandatory who was ducked by jones.
steve collins chased jones..went to his fights...went to his press conferences. said he'd take a minority purse...called him scared to his face. jones ducked him.
maybe jones didn't have as much faith in his ability as you do.
djmactone 2 years ago
love it. FACT.
joe calzaghe was an undisputed champion. FACT.
Joe calzaghe was lineal champion. FACT.
joe calzaghe is a two weight world champion. FACT.
joe calzaghe retired undefeated. FACT.
joe calzaghe has career wins over greats like bernard hopkins, roy jones jr & chris eubank. FACT.
joe calzaghe was a world champion for 10years. FACT.
joe calzaghe never got busted using steroids...unlike roid jones jr. FACT.
djmactone 2 years ago 3
I think we will agree to disagree as to how good Joe Calzaghe really was when compared against the very best fighters of his era.
I put him below Jones, Hopkins, Toney, Macllum+ Nunn
He was essentially well matched for most of his career After unifying the 168lb title he avoided younger champions+ challengers. Calzaghe showed warrior class in beating Kessler but probably realised he would be eventually beaten if he stayed to face Froch, Pascal, Ward, Tarver, Dawson + retired instead.
07091102 2 years ago
he cleaned out that division. there is no-one saying calzaghe ducked them. unlike jones.
& dude...if you don't rate calzaghe...no problem...i don't rate jones & i think he's a drug cheat...but i don't go to roy jones jr videos on youtube & slag him off. probably cos i'm not an ignorant cunt like you.
& maccallum & nunn are calzaghe's generation? nunn retired in 98 after losing to rocc...mccullum retired in 97. once again...you don't know what you're talking about.
djmactone 2 years ago
Calzaghe didn't clean out the divsision"
After unifying at 168lbs, he wouldn't fight any of the number one contenders eg Froch, Pascal, Ward+ moved up in weight.
He wouldn't fight any of the champions or number 1 contenders at 175lbs either eg Dawson, Johnson, Tarver. Instead he opted for men ageing who were in obvious decline. You are ignorant thats why you use words like "cunt or "retard "because you cannot articulate yourself with standard english.
This correspondence is over.
07091102 2 years ago
calzaghe spent ten years as champ. he unified the titles. how did he not clean out the division?
he spent ten years fighting & beating every contender then he said "i want b-hop & rjj then i'm done". then he beat b-hop & rjj & he was done.
i'm sure you'd love to see him fight other guys...but i don't see rjj or b-hop fighting those guys so it's double standards...no?
djmactone 2 years ago
10 years fighting the likes of Pudwill, Sheika, Veit, Jiminez, Mcintrre, Sorbot etc is not what I call cleaning out the division. Eubank, Woodhall, Brewer were at least 2-3 years past their best when Calzaghe fought them+ Reid was never that good to begin with!
Jones beat the best man at 160, 168+ a host of reigning or future WBC, WBA, IBF champions at 168+175 in Malinga, Del Valle, Lucas, Woods+ won the WBA heavywght title.
There is no real comprison in the overall quality of opponents
07091102 2 years ago
"There is no real comprison in the overall quality of opponents".
between calzaghe & jones? that's true. calzaghe fought every mandatory & potential challenger for ten years. if he didn't: who are the guys he ducked?
jones paid off his mandatories & moved about in weight to avoid the biggest challenges & fought a rent-a-cop, a mailman & a garbageman on ppv. no comparison.
btw eubank was "the best man" at mw & sm when rjj was there. rjj didn't beat him...cos he ducked him.
djmactone 2 years ago
The reason so many British fighters go after the WBO belt is because it is usually by far the easiest to win+ defend. It is rare for a WBO champion to be the best fighter in the divsion
Eubank was the best middlweight? when? better than Nunn, Jones, Macallum, Toney, or Hopkins?
Don't make me laugh!
Eubank saw how top British fighters like Watson+ Graham got KOd when they fought the very best eg Macallum+ Jackson + stayed well away from the elite fighters.
Eubank..That is a joke!!
07091102 2 years ago
Eubank wasn't a complete fool. He knew his weaknesses+ limitations.
Watdon hurt him+ he ducked Herol Graham. So when he saw these men get Kod against the top americans etc. He preferred to fight the Ray Close+ Dan Cherrys of the boxing world.
Not only did top UK fighters get demolished when they stepped up; boxers like Malinga, Thornton+ Kalamby who gave Eubank Benn+ Graham as much trouble as they could handle were demolished when they challenged eg Nunn, Jones+ Jackson at their peaks.
07091102 2 years ago
so you want to argue about eubank now?
whatever dude.
roy jones jr is drug cheat. he spent his career fighting bums & ducking the best fighters. despite that he still has losses to journeymen like griffin & johnson & was devastingly knocked out by non punchers in tarver & johnson (again).
calzaghe: undefeated, lineal champ, undisputed champ, champ for ten years, 2 weight champ, fought & won in germany & the us and now the measuring stick by which every smw ever will be judged.
djmactone 2 years ago
So Jones was a bum, Hopkins was a bum, Toney was a bum, Del Valle was a bum, Lucas was a bum, Hill was a bum, Woods was a bum, Malinga was a bum. All the WBC, WBA, IBF world champions all bums??!!
The only "good" fighters were the WBO ranked boxers+ the only great fighter was Calzaghe+ winning the Ring Magazine belt v Hopkins who has won no titles for 5 yeras + nothing at 175lbs makes him the 175lb champion not Chad Dawson who holds the WBC, IBF belts?
Enough Nonsense! Over and out..
07091102 2 years ago
never said jones was a bum. said he was a drug cheat who fought bums like frzier, kelly, byrd & yeah famous bum lou del valle.
funny how you said malinga was a old bum when woodhall beat him tho...he was 40 when he faced jones...imo he was a decent pro but he got beat by rocky, benn & eubank in his prime.
& imo the champ makes the belt...not the alphabet...but if you held every title at your weight like calzaghe you were the best at your weight. can't really argue with that.
djmactone 2 years ago
"Pacman is good. If he beats WBC, WBA, IBF champion then he will be regarded as the best welterwght."
lol. the p4p best in the world isn't good enough because he's "only" wbo champ? you're a joker, dude.
oh...& if eubank, collins, rocky, dm & calzaghe were all bums like you're saying: how come rjj wouldn't fight any of them? that telesco superfight had to happen huh?
now either answer that; talk about something else randomly; or say you're not going to reply but reply anyway.
djmactone 2 years ago
Pacquiao is very good+ may be the best pound for pound fighter, but is he the best welterweight?
That is yet to be seen.
Beating faded De La Hoya or Hatton at the end of their careers in non title fight proved little nor did beating faded Cotto in a WBO fight.
Let him beat Mosely or, Berto to win a prestigous title.
Historically men men like Duran, De La Hoya, Mosely+ Mayweather won WBC, WBA, IBF titles v reigning champions when moving to 147lbs not minor WBO titles.
07091102 2 years ago
yeah...you said the best fighters at a weight were never wbo champs. i pointed out that 4 current wbo champs are considered to be the best fighters at their weight. you can fanny around & go "historically..." all you want...but you're wrong.
either way...calzaghe won every title at smw...so he was the best at the weight...so i don't know why you're going on about it. probably cos you think if you keep on talking that makes you right. it actually makes you retarded.
djmactone 2 years ago
Of those men you mentioned Klitchko, Bradey, Pacquiao+ Calderon. I would say it is very questionable whether 3 of them are the best at their weight.
I know very little about Calderon.
Calzaghe was the best super middlweight for a short period 2006-2008
He changed weight before facing the next generation of top contenders: Froch, Pascal, Dirrel, Ward; who I think were better than almost all of the men he fought+ when he moved to 175lbs he avoided fighting the champions at that weight.
07091102 2 years ago
"Calzaghe was the best super middlweight for a short period 2006-2008"
who was better than him at smw 97-06 then? lacy? ottke? beyer? i thought they were all bums according to you.
djmactone 2 years ago
None of those named fighters were bums.
All with the exception of Rocchigiani were genuine world class. Jones didn't duck them. I would suggest most of them avoded fighting him+ a host of other elite fighters of their era especially Eubank. How many other WBC, WBA, IBF champions or no 1 contenders did these men face collectively?
Why did they not face Nunn, Toney, Jones, Macallum, Hopkins, Jackson, Mcllenan, Dawson at their respective peaks?
The reason is that they feared being beaten!
07091102 2 years ago
why didn't who fight those guys? jones jr? how come HE didn't fight mcllenan? how come HE didn't fight dawson? how come nunn was twice a mandatory for jones' titles but rjj hasn't faced him? how come HE never faced jackson?
rjj was the big us draw for most of the 90's. how the hell can you look back on his career & see toney & b-hop & no other great fighters given the pool of talent that surrounded him? they weren't all ducking him. they all wanted to fight him. he ducked them. the end.
djmactone 2 years ago
The best fighters should fight the best fighters.
Jones, Hopkins, De La Hoya, Toney, Barrera, Morales. fought more top ranked fighters+ reigning champions over a longer period than most other champions which is why they will be rated as THE greatest of their generation+ amongst the greatest of all time.
Jones held WBC WBA, IBF titles for 15 yrs, he beat Hopkins+ Toney, unified at 175+ won a heavyweight title+ is regarded as greater boxer+ certainly a greater champion than Calzaghe..
07091102 2 years ago
As a direct answer to your question: at least Jones faced SOME of those men in their prime eg Hopkins, Toney, Tarver+ Johnson.
Mclennans career was tragically cut short before a Jones fight at 168lbs materialised. Macallum was fading by the time Jones beat him for the WBC title.
Nunn was in serious decline by the time Jones was champion, he had lost to Little+ Liles. He was little real threat to a peak Jones
By the time Dawson was champion at 175Jones was finished at the elite level..
07091102 2 years ago
hey...if pac (wbo, ibo champ) isn't the man at welter...how come dawson (ibo champ, very lucky to beat 39-year old johnson) is "the man" at lh? is it cos you're a hypocrite?
& rjj fought johnson is his prime? 36 is prime? ok...he lost anyway...to a journeyman who lost to woods & ottke & b-hop & omar sheika. & rjj lost to tarver...who was schooled by 41 y/o b-hop & 39 y/o johnson. when rjj beat toney he was on a drip before the fight & b-hop was green. who has rjj beat? no-one.
djmactone 2 years ago