Ability Delay & Avatar Responsiveness (SW:TOR - WoW)

[1m1337noSh1t]

the healing section of the video requires a very good internet connection, I cant do that because mines bad :(

[levkosenko]

So..Swtor destroys WoW huh?Orgrimmar is full of people more than ever.Just saying.

[Ulfhedjinn]

Did you have a sock in your mouth when you recorded this? Can't hear a word you're saying.

[KScholefield51]

Very, very good video. Having played both games myself, and currently playing the old republic, I really can't agree more. The ability animations, and sequences need to be just as good as WoW's. There's really no excuse for a game of this magnitude(tor) that it should have this kind of delay throughout. It's the main problem I face playing a Jedi Sentinel. It got better with the last minor patch, but some abilities, especially force sweep, do not fire when pressed right away. Very annoying.

[xlAnonym0uslx]

Do you have input delay/lag to character and camera movement, or just with abilities?

[XCoreGam1ng]

@xlAnonym0uslx There are issues with Camera Movement as well as Targetting but this specifically focuses on actual "Avatar Control" as in Movement/Abilities etc.

[xlAnonym0uslx]

@XCoreGam1ng Okay, thanks. Were all of these "lags/delays" fixed(not just movement and ability lag), or at least somewhat lessened, with 1.1.0b?

[xlAnonym0uslx]

@XCoreGam1ng Okay, thanks. Were all of these "lags/delays" fixed(not just movement and ability lag), or at least somewhat lessened, with 1.1.0b?

[XCoreGam1ng]

@xlAnonym0uslx Yes they were significantly improved with 1.1.0b. However, issues still persist and are noticeable. I think, to what degree it has been improved depends on your tolerance for imperfection and flaws, some actually believe it to be 100% fixed while others still notice glaring issues. My personal belief is that it went from unplayable to enjoyable though still far from "WoW Standard". For me it is most noticeable on channeled casts still as well as tight rotations.

[skillz0122]

I left Wow almost 2 years ago cause I didn't like the direction the game was going. I play Swotor now and I have to admit, Bioware is far behind Blizzard in gameplay.

[Dextrous90]

Kudos to you for making this video (and the forum work). It shows exactly what is my concern in SWTOR atm. The game it self is just pure awesomeness, the features / content is just perfect for a game this young, but the responsiveness of the game is just so bad that I can not continue to play it in long term if these issues are not resolved. I read some admins post on the official forums that there's a fix on the current Test realm and I'm downloading the client as we speak, fingers crossed!

[dAt3q]

Also SWTOR has very limited freedom and everywhere you look there is some rock wall or something where you cant pass. Totally no depth in the game.

[dAt3q]

Only thing what is epic is the cinematic. In the game nothing epic can be found only loads of let downs and bugs, bugs, bugs.

[RSZyox]

This is undeniable evidence that there is an issue with gameplay of swtor. I've been following your post on the forums and have contibuted to the discussion a few times, but the issue really has to be seen in comparison to WoW to really appreciate what Blizz does and to know how swtor should play.

I'm an arena player in WoW and rated fairly high. My arena team wants to stop wow and would like to play swtor, but this exact issue is what keeps them away. Thanks for posting this.

[Master10k2]

Definitely a good overview and not something a person can just shrug off saying, "Well I never really noticed this, so why should I care?" I also liked how you hammered home that particular point at the end.

Here's hoping that Guild Wars 2's responsiveness will be perfect at release, because from that blog post you linked, it really sounds like they are taking the combat aspect of their game seriously.

[Icearchon]

I really want these problems fixed; as a university student, I cannot just dump subscription money into a game that has these huge issues. The ability delays are utterly jarring. I expect instant abilities to be instantaneous, not require multiple ability presses, and to actually EXECUTE the ability. IE I cannot count how many times I would press full-auto and the ability would channel but no firing animation, no damage, and would not me do any other abilities.

[abyynormal]

My account already expired on Swtor and I can't support you on the forum so I came here to tell you that I am 100% behind you. Don't give in to these biodrones who are ready to settle for unresponsive gameplay. I will return to the game only after you announce the issue has been fixed.

[XCoreGam1ng]

@abyynormal Thank you very much, I actually have some good news. The fixes implemented in this patch 1.1.0b are actually very, very good. Even at the risk of your possible disappointment, I would actually recommend you come back and check it out right now. As I stated in the thread, it is for me, about 60-75% improvement, from last night to tonight, its like playing a completely different game. It went from "unplayable" to "very much enjoyable" (not yet WoW level of responsiveness).

[XCoreGam1ng]

@XCoreGam1ng Also, Abbyynormal, shoot me a PM please on the forums with your opinion if you do return. Having played all 3 Warzones tonight and done some testing, it is seriously like a different game to me... though I must point out, not completely there yet (where I would like it to be). I would not say this lightly, I have no reason to lie to anyone about this...

[abyynormal]

@XCoreGam1ng Thx for the replay Xcore; I will give it a try today to see how it feels.

[dAt3q]

SWTOR is just a test how many complex bugs they can put in the game.

[mord3030]

@dAt3q

And a test of how many idiots they can find that would pay monthly for a single-player Beta test.

[Sethran1996]

Whats the TSFH song at 14:00? Thanks in advance. :)

[TheEvilpingu]

What a WONDERFUL video. You've summed up all of the frustrations I've been having as a PvP Sniper in your examples and comments. Not sure how easy to fix this is (or if it's even possible) but here's hoping!

[pwnttothemax]

good video, but eat that mic! can't hear you!

[Aoewin08]

This, along wit hall the FPS problem some people with even some awesome rig have in pvp... it makes me think that there is a lot of error in their game coding..

[Aoewin08]

@Aoewin08 with all*

[ggeorgiou01]

Awesome video and post on forums. well done

[ShadeSlider]

This is a great work. Thank you for your time. Lets hope devs will listen to this at some point.

[o0Tao0o]

All Bioware need to do is listen to your comments in the last 3 mins of this video.

It really does say it all.

I agree that this / these issues will be the maker or breaker for this MMO.

[101nagen]

Amazing post I know there was a huge threa on this as well on the Swtor forums but did it ever get an answer? ANd have you tried to send them this direct?

[TheEternalGenocide]

Love the video, hope it can spark some fixes. I've been playing WoW for years now and after playing Star Wars, realized I've really taken the smoothness for granted.

[amisfitpuivk]

5:10 Hydraulic Overrides. Advanced Prototype ability: immune to snares.

[kurjadva]

Liked, Favorited. Good support for the game that is soo fresh, Thank you ^_^

[dartmed74]

Thank you for doing this . Your contribution in making the game what it was meant to be is immerse !!

[Crumphorn]

This is excellent work - and SWTOR players ower you a debt of thanks,

Can you speculate on what ids causing the ability delay problem?

[XCoreGam1ng]

@Crumphorn There are many contributing factors, I would say most majorly its Animation/Sound Sync coupled with Effect to the Keypress. Also, Client/Server Interaction is not like WoW. Imagine yourself running against the gate in AB (to get out faster) and me too, we both run to the first flag and you appear to be in front of me on your screen, then when we both cap it, my cap actually succeeds. Because I was actually in front of you! This and much more is discussed in the Threadline.

[the1tigglet]

Hi just wanted to tell you keep up the good work, there are idiots out there that will throw money at any polished turd and it takes guts to point out the flaws. I'm one of those people who agree with you and would like you to know you are not alone. Maybe in six months time this could actually accurately be called a AAA MMORPG but until they have these patches it's simply a solo game with multiplayer elements.

[wutru]

Good comments toward the end about fanboys.

[TuahShinguru]

With regards to that first TOR PvP video, the delay issue drastically changed the outcome for the worse. The first enemy was simply able to walk past you and get to your teammate with no effort. That in-turn caused his buddy to live long enough to dash under you and remain immune to all your attacks.

Reminds me of Kreia from KotOR2. Like an echo, the smallest of causes can have dramatic effects.

[andrefrbk]

As a healer its extremely frustrating in pvp between the low fps and ability lag i found myself getting heals off on my screen, but heals taking 2 seconds to actually reach players. Healing feels completely unrewarding in this game, and you cant really do any amazing saves. If someone is super low on hp, unless you have crazy retroactive abilities that person is going to die. An instant heal to you is like 1.2/2 seconds to the game engine. SIGH! Its just depressing. Im done.

[Yeremita]

Hah, the ending of the video pissed me off. People that need to run off and eat mid duel are shit. fucking admit you lost you pussy rogue. Man I hate those fucks.

[abyynormal]

Thank you for your video.

Already unsubscribed because of this issue.

Swtor is too unresponsive and clunky; it doesn't have the fluidity and responsiveness of WoW. What WoW did 7 years ago Swtor could not match 7 years later and this will be the downfall of swtor just like it was for Warhammer Online. No reason to hope for a fix to delay and responsiveness as well since those problems had been reported over and over during the beta and not a single step was taken to eliminate them.

[BKJayWalker]

Xcore... It's Starglide from the forums. As always. Thank you for this as always. But I was curious if u were happy with their recent response. Someone said it good when they mentioned BW isn't going to go into details if they decide to start clipping animations but it seemed like they are blaming this issue on more than just animation priority. I mean, the abilities not getting off def. is a different fix, but I don't like the statement about itnhaving to do with the players PC. It is clearly

[WilliamRussellajb]

Xcore.. they should pay you for writing the best detailed bug ever. Fire their QA team and hire you :)

I looked @ the credits in swtor.. they had close to 100 people... and not 1 of them caught this??

[jereth308]

You hit it spot on when you said people want to leave WoW so very badly, it's just that no other developers are capable of making the games as responsive as WoW. They're all focus on fancy features, but the foundations are always garbage in comparison.

[andrefrbk]

this is amazing... ty for your dedication.

[thehavok2]

Hey Xcore, just wanted to thank you for all of your hard work. This issue is the main reason why I have canceled my sub. It is SUCH a hard issue to describe (and probably to fix) because it is SO technical and really takes all the hardwork you have put for and a lot of player experience, to know what is going on. When describing this issue to other people and even my friends, they just shrugged it off or called me too picky. But you have provided the evidence! Thank you so much!!!

[feLIVEar]

Nice video. I made the video in the thread of WoW's fluidity (baznasty). I quit playing SWTOR over this. The game just doesn't feel right. At this point I'm just waiting for GW2 and hoping it does it correctly. Nice job on the video and getting that awesome thread going on the forums.

[Street1841]

Just finished watching this part and I really agree on what you was talking about in the last 5 mins. I have tried all the new Mmos that come out and I always go back to wow.

[Zidana123]

I wonder if you realize you've just made a 50 minute advertisement for World of Warcraft.

I just have to say:

Thank you.

Sooner or later you will come to realize that you, out of love, are putting far more work into this issue than the Bioware devs ever will. You will realize this game was not made with a creative spark, but with greed and arrogance. When that day comes, the love in your heart will curdle and turn to hate, and your journey to the dark side will be complete.

It is inevitable.

[Street1841]

Any ideas on how to turn the volume up even more? Im at max volume and can barely hear him. On the other hand anyone played the PTR and seen if the patch they implied is working?

[Rebazar]

The hard work of people like Xcore has lead to some encouraging official responses on the matter. It goes to show that the squeaky wheel does get the grease.

[M1K3YM0]

Working as intended. Have you tried rolling an alt on another faction or using the /stuck command?

[Mandrax2011]

Superb video Xcore. It's a shame the only people who will actually watch all this are those that have already been agreeing with you in the multiple threads on the SWTOR site. This video gives clear proof that there are major issues with responsiveness. My biggest fear however is that BioWare cannot fix it. WoW is a 7 year old game and in my opinion there has never been another game since, which has the responsiveness of World of Warcraft. I hope BioWare get it right.

[Jenartik]

50 minutes of WAAH WAHH WAHH GAME ISNT ENOUGH LIKE WOW MY COMP SUX

Get a decent system and theres no lag, then go back to wow if u want brainless button mashing

[mdpissdrunx]

@Jenartik drones will be drones...

[MacPJ]

Great video. Have been following and supporting your thread since the first page and am very happy Bioware has responded. Now we just have to wait and see if they make good on their promises to fix the issue.

[jleack]

Such a great video. I'm so glad to see someone finally put the time into this because it's a major issue. The sad thing is that it has affected SWTOR since it entered alpha, and went unfixed. BioWare posted today stating that they found the culprit and will be fixing it shortly, but I'm extremely skeptical. I think a lot of this comes from them using the Hero Engine, which isn't meant for a game of this magnitude.

Thumbs up, favorited, and I'll be sharing this video on forums. Thanks!

[RGLover641]

I agree with this soooo much!!!!! I like SWTOR, but this combat delay is pissing me off. Especially having moves that just won't go off when I'm in cover (I'm a sniper). They should fix this pronto!

[Thorndepth]

omg TALK louder!

[XCoreGam1ng]

@Thorndepth Apologies, the audio quality is not the best and I recorded this on a Flu so its hard for me to raise my voice... hope you can work with it though :)

[Virck]

@XCoreGam1ng Would it be a reasonable request if you were to cut this down and redo the audio, I couldn't understand anything! :(

[Crasus77]

@Thorndepth

change your TESCO headset.....

[Taurusaud]

lol I love the segment from 36:49 til the end haha...

[lee4runner]

Great video so far, I'm about 10 minutes into it, but I'm having a hard time hearing your voice!

[Dzz131]

Pathetic. Did anyone test this shit? This seems like the type of stuff that would be instantly spotted by anyone. Or maybe they knew the problem and pushed it out anyway.

[jleack]

@Dzz131 I was in three beta waves leading up to launch, with my earliest being three months before release. I gave LOTS of feedback on the ability delay and bad performance but nothing ever changed even slightly.

[101nagen]

@Dzz131 That is what happend, and this is the very reason why we dont have a combat log in swtor it would just highlight the problem even more.

[JDMC13]

good video. really nails the problem.

[Taurusaud]

Are you from Canada

[XCoreGam1ng]

@Taurusaud Hey, I am German born but I do live in Toronto Canada for the past 10 years. I think you may spot my accent, it is German.

[Taurusaud]

@XCoreGam1ng na I can sense the canadien (parents are from Ottawa..)

[Marroc4ever]

Good video but ultimately not as much of a concern as people are making it out to be given the game has been out for ONE month. When WoW launched it took up to 5 minutes to loot a corpse on a regular basis - talk about ability delay! Bioware has already said these issues are being dealt with. WoW has had time to be fine tuned over the last 6 years. SWTOR will be just as smooth and more polished in a lot less time.

[Crasus77]

@Marroc4ever

FANBOI spotted!

man put your hand to your hearth and tell me pls honestly: DO YOU BUY a MONITOR in 2012 with 1024*768 or do you go for the one with 1920*1080 one??

If you go to the local computer store in 2012 you want to buy a monitor with abilities match to others on market in 2012 and not 2004!

NOBODY cares how wow was in 2004 this is 2012 NOW the developers have to make games which can go into the competition of 2012 not the 2004 one!

shall we speak about ability delay in 2020?

[Marcus8958]

@Crasus77

one monitor is so 2010.

[XCoreGam1ng]

@Marroc4ever This is sadly not the same issue, the WoW launch issues were completely of a different nature. I played it from release and the "loot/kneel delay" was a server lag issue. This is much more worrying and not easily fixed, WoW at launch essentially played as smooth as it does now, outside of non-combat bugs such as looting etc.

[Wran84]

@XCoreGam1ng A lot of the issues were fixed today, but there is more work to be done. It looks like you were over-blowing the issue a bit though.

[RGLover641]

@Marroc4ever Dunno what you're talking about. I like the game but the ability delay should have been an issue dealt with at launch. I don't remember WoW at all have such a delay during combat in vanilla. Half of my moves never go off when I'm in cover as a sniper and it's annoying...

[Crasus77]

Good vieo man! I alrdy stopped playing SWTOR because i am telling the ability delay problem since the middle of december when i first joined my Warzone on level 10....ofc i realized even in LVL-ing but i told to myself i can manage even with delays....but now is almost february and ability delay totally ruined my game :S Bioware/EA is an idiots

[Marcus8958]

at 8:00

Even as casual player the responsiveness and reliability of quick actions is very important. Not being able to use stuns and whatever gets frustrating pretty fast.

[Marcus8958]

50 minute video about ability delay? Should I get me some popcorn?

[jabberl5]

tl:dw