uhhh.... maybe the person is not doing the build right. So far when ever i play someone doing bio its not even close. I destroy them. reapers? really? hellions destroy them. i have had someone try that and i crushed them. The upgrades for air is real important. remember that. I get it asap.
I keep attempting this build, won 1 out of 5 games. Marine/marauder seems to destroy it, marauders destroy the hellions somehow and marines just rape everything. Need help, someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
Just played 2 matches agianst a friend of mine who went this build. I had never seen it at all and i lost the first game pretty badly to blue flame hellion drop and banshee harass. But in the second game i won with thors and vikings. He ended up going for bc's with the build but upgraded thors with rine support (the ones that didnt melt) plus the vikings won the game.
I looked up iEchoic, and he basically placed in Master League in Season 2, then stopped laddering in 1v1 or playing in tournaments. Although he faded into oblivion, his build is still viable. I enjoy seeing Terran opponents laugh when I use this build (whether I win or lose) because TvT is so milktoast that they equate unorthodox play with gimmicky play.
hmm idk why but for some reason whenever you started talking too him and getting all excited about the hellions it made me feel like i was watching an infomirtial and you were talking to someone who was trying to sell some "this is the best thing ever BUY IT" product/service lawl.
@kabr4s He was in the Master league when his post first appeared on teamliquid. You're well over a month late, sir. I take it he's dropped since it's midterm season.
DAY9 YOU ARE THE BIGGEST LOSER! SO YOU GO TO HARVEY MUDD COLLEGE? LOL, I GO TO HARVARD! YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND? GUESS WHAT, I HAVE 2 GIRLFRIENDS! YOU ARE GOOD AT SC1 AND SC2? HA! I WILL BE GOOD AT SC3! GET USED TO IT, I WIN YOU LOSE!!
@Oreoclan the whole point of the build, though, is that you must maintain air control. If your opponent produces more vikings than you and then ALSO tanks and marowders, you have bigger fish to try
@Hetro112 The units are very good early in the game, but when zerg gets the lair, it's no longer as usefull. And then you have invested 10 minutes and alot of money in units and buildings that aren't longer going to be effective, i have tried and failed against zerg. But with terran, my opponents ragequitting is the standard if i succeed.
I mean, can't just marauders hold onto chokepoints, while maines shoot (especially air) from a distance? The last time (way before this build, though) I tried out massing hellions with air it just didn't work out because of the marauders, which apparently destroy hellions in moments. And what about conc. shells?
@Naba008 Marines get DEMOLISHED by Blue Flame Hellions. Then all those Banshees DEMOLISH Marauders. Once the Marines die, you win the battle.
I think that this build only forces TvT to be more aware and control more efficiently. Sensor Towers and Viking air control would totally nullify any air-based harass, meaning they have to do run-bys. Tanks and Marine/Marauder for the Hellions, and Vikings for air control. Just changes my build to get earlier Marauders. I always rely on mass Vikings.
@Oreoclan How are the marines demolished by the hellions, if the hellions are unable to get close to the marines, who are covered by a line of marauders? Unless the map is really spread out, I think they could manage.
@Naba008 24 damage to light units+splash damage. Hellions are fast and have 90 HP vs the Marine's 45 (55 upgraded) NEXT QUESTION!
@glopv2 If my opponent outproduces me in Vikings, I just make more Vikings and make sure they don't die until I beat him in the Viking count and production. TvT is all about air control. Whoever has more Vikings will win unless he killed you early with infantry or somehow hit you from behind. The instant he loses air control, your tanks automatically beat his.
Marauders' show slows the targets down for the time of the attack cooldown - the upgrade costs only 50-50.
Hellions get slowed down and mowed down by big bulky path-blocking marauders. Marines safely watch out for air from behind.
At least, that is the ideal situation. I many times encounter a not well organized army, but if they position them well, hellions can't really do anything, other than giving you map control.
@Naba008 Dude... Just watch the replays... The infantry army got DEMOLISHED. The splash damage adds up. And if you back up the Marines, the Banshees demolish the Marauders while the Hellions back up. Since he has more mobility, you WILL lose if both players micro.
And people WILL stop or slow Viking production once they feel they have air control. If not, good for them, you need to do something big to get back in the game or go overboard in Viking production.
@Oreoclan So you say that I should judge a strategy and the way it can be countered by one single replay?
And don't forget that the person with the MM "army" is never afraid to tech towards banshees or thors.
And yes, good for them, that's what I say. You cannot outproduce a good player in vikings that way.
Banshees work great to pick off enemies from the front on the back, meaning that said enemy has to spend around 1200 minerals to completely defend his base.
@Oreoclan Also note that ideally, you don't reveal your banshees until you have enough of them to nullify any turret-building attempts momentarily. Also, in bigger numbers, banshees WITHOUT cloak are an effective tool at picking off singular turrets and groups of marines, too. Of course, if you care to flee one or two back for repairs.
Your average guy wouldn't try to go Starport+reactor but would rather make his base safe.
@Naba008 You don't really understand a good, long term TvT. You set up a contain to control as much of the map as possible. From there, you get Turrets right away because any Banshees can ruin your day. Once those Turrets are up, you don't need to do much but slow push your opponent and harass them. With air control, Banshees won't do much as long as you're active about keeping your Vikings (and perhaps your own Banshees) roaming around the map. And you also throw up Sensor Towers for drops.
@Oreoclan It's a fact that I dislike long term rounds. Of course, I don't use banshees or any of these fancy units when the air harass ship is gone. :P
@Oreoclan No, as I said, I hate infantry, and although I dislike playing a round for too long, I manage my resources and expos quite well. But then again, I always say that a round should end with your victory ASAP before the opponent can show off his tricks.
@Naba008 Yeah... Winning ASAP is good because it doesn't burn your practice time... But in TvT I prefer playing steady and extending my advantages. From there, I wait for them to burn out because Terran has the ability to somehow raise itself from the dead if you don't kill them. You just wait for your opponent to give up or constantly fail in their attempts to break your contains/slow pushes. Your opponent can try tricks, but they'll fail if you cover the map properly.
@Oreoclan winning asap is good if you just want points and portraits. playing a long macro game prepares you for long macro games that will happen at the higher levels.
@damndamnd Well if you find an all in or timing attack that works 90+% of the time why not do it? I mean, 5 rax Reaper isn't exactly a macro strategy, but it worked almost all the time until it got nerfed to hell. The same with 4 Gate before people learned how to effectively deal with them (yet it's still going to get nerfed). You go for the strategy that will give you the most wins. It's just that Blizzard is trying to make it so you have to macro and play the better game at the highest levels.
@Oreoclan if you want to play like that go ahead. just saying its better to play with the intention of a long-term macro game then a cheesy quick all-in
@damndamnd Well, you play whatever will give you the most efficient win as well as a high win percentage. 4 Gate and 5 Rax did that. I personally don't ever go all in unless I see a clear opening early on or I'm messing around. You can call 4 Gate, 5 Rax Reaper, ling/baneling, or 2 Rax cheesy if you want, but they're standard because they're so effective with little to no downside if you execute it properly. 4 Gate is pretty much the only one without a legitimate transiton though...
@Oreoclan Have fun with that. You will take the lower league players you play by a landslide, but don't expect to win MLG or anything. You can execute as well as you want, but if the other player holds it off, he wins and you look like a dumbass =/ I'd rather play with the intention of improving all my game rather than stick to one build that gets me wins.
@damndamnd Dude... You do realize 4 Gates and 5 Rax Reapers have been dominating at tournaments right? You do realize that Code A of the GSL is essentially nothing but cheese? You do realize that Code A of the GSL is MUCH tougher than MLG right? MarineKingPrime got the the finals of the Code S of the GSL (EVEN HIGHER than Code A) doing almost nothing but all in plays.
You do whatever works best to your style. I bet MKP would beat you 100 out of 100 games. Cheese is part of the game.
@Oreoclan lol i bet MVP would beat you 100 out of 100 games also. There's a reason a strong macro player who relies on his own strengths like MVP can win over cheesy play. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with cheese. In Bo7's, you generally want to cheese one or two games to throw your opponent off. But if you, a low level player, rely on cheese all your games, you won't really improve. I'm not talking about the Pros, I'm talking about casual gamers.
@Oreoclan No. Not only is cheese easy to spot but it's really easy to counter. Reapers are really unorthodox and mostly useless. In high level tournaments usually a cheesed player wins with better micro or some clever thinking. But what do I know I'm only in masters.
@GoldwinTime Reapers aren't useless. Ask NaDa. He RAPED a Code S Terran with them. And there's a 3 Reaper build that's pretty powerful (but damage can be minimized if you spot it and spread your Marines around the cliffs). And in high level player, the cheesed player wins about as much as he loses. NaDa got cheesed out of the semifinals last Code S, and Code A is known for being loaded with all sorts of all ins. And you can pull a HuK and proxy 2 of your 4 Gates to surprise your opponent.
@Oreoclan Firstly, I said mostly useless you moron. I never said that reapers are useless in every scenario. I've never had early readers do more then 2 SCVs worth of damage.
And no it's not. In all my master games I think I've lost maybe one game to cheese. I don't know where on earth you're getting this information from but it is incorrect.
@Oreoclan About the one you wrote to glopv2, I have to disagree. You normally CANNOT outproduce someone in vikings, unless you try to destroy his vikings from ground aswell - even if you pull up two starports, he will always have more vikings and will win the viking war if you just try to outnumber him.
Also, positioning siege tanks to abuse the +1 range from viking vision is slow to micro.
The enemy can just go for banshees in that time, waste your scans and demolish your tanks. I did it.
this build could make use of reapers in mid to late game because what reapers do best (scouting and killing buildings.) is what this build could benefit most from.
Its like TKO every game, they all gg:ed without loosing any significant structures. I feel walling in and protecting mineral lines with structures. Awesome anyhow!
@TheOddOne2 You will have to expand eventually and they can still do drops and the like. As iEchoic said there isn't a "hard counter" you could win or lose depending on who plays better.
Plus if you just wall in then the Hellion player could mass expand like a Zerg, and get my favorite Terran unit... Battlecruisers.
Tried this tactic. LIke it alot! Did 3 TvT games and won all of them without any bigger problems! To bad i think every terran player who watch your videos are going to use this build further on :(
Thanks iEchoic! Love the way you think at this build, its nice to think out of the regular TvT build! I think this build have a lot of potential even in T v Z...
weird how helions arent armored, but there mech, so maraders or tanks dont do extra dmg, shure tanks would wreck, but helions are fast, run in, take 3-4 shots from the tanks, kill his rines, then banshees kill the tanks, but you blizz is gonna patch this lol, this and queens, wait, helions count as light, what would you do if the other guy did this?
weird how helions arent armored, but there mech, so maraders or tanks dont do extra dmg, shure tanks would wreck, but helions are fast, run in, take 3-4 shots from the tanks, kill his rines, then banshees kill the tanks, but you blizz is gonna patch this lol, this and queens
One problem with this build vs siege tank marine is if the mech player sieges correctly, then the meching player can just kite the helions around the tank fire, and then just blast the banshee's down with the marines once the helions have suffered losses.
im a rts noob, never played them before starcraft 2, I placed bronze everything, im now gold everything, but man i thought i was a hardcore gamer, using my ps3, but i give props to any sc2 player because this is the hardest and most labour intensive videogame i have ever played
@hellopellos Except that you'll be highly mobile with your force (and thors are slow), and capable of destroying their economy (thus, no mass thors). If they get one thor out it's not a biggie, but if you let them mass thors, then it's your fault for not using the build as intended. You're right; thors can rip through your forces so don't let them get the finances to mass them in the first place.
@hellopellos I wasn't saying they weren't! I'm just saying your best bet is to try and mineral harass them as much as possible to try and prevent yourself from being crushed by thors (which are relatively expensive).
Im so happy for Echoic and everything he's doing in the StarCraft 2 world. I knew him years ago back when he was #1 in Halo Wars. You guys should check some of his old Halo Wars 1v1s if you wanna see where he got his start.
I think psy has his own TvT build that is alike to this (psy's is more for lulz tho)
early fac, early port, time a reactor on the fac with the port, swap the port onto the reactor, and mass up vikings, get 8 vikings, go to ur opponent's base, land, and own, while doing that, make lots of infantry, when you are moving out with 8 vikings, upgrade them, and move out with them when your vikings reach your opponent's base
@3wsgabav3 To be honest, just get the Ad block plus add-on for FireFox or Chrome. Completely removes all ads on every websites and also before and during the videos on Yotube and other video sites.
Man, day9 always giving new choices to the SC players, and improving and supporting the community, thanks man! keep doing what you do! you are awesome!
this build actually works really really well against zerg, if you change it a little bit.
GoSuVIP 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
gomTv is finally free here quidhi dot info
SaineHartwell328 1 month ago
The first five seconds might be the funniest thing I have ever seen, I seriously can't stop laughing!
HoNwhitefenix 1 month ago
what if both players do the exact same strat with the exact same control? a game that simply would not end :P ?
SpartanOfAiur 4 months ago
@SpartanOfAiur
A statement that u could say for every play..
Infinity181091 4 months ago
How's blue flame after the nerf?
Schett94 5 months ago
mass MASS viking beats this lol. but this build has won me all my games so far :)
airstriker57 5 months ago
uhhh.... maybe the person is not doing the build right. So far when ever i play someone doing bio its not even close. I destroy them. reapers? really? hellions destroy them. i have had someone try that and i crushed them. The upgrades for air is real important. remember that. I get it asap.
phays10 5 months ago
i just beat a guy taht did this, maruaders vikings, tanks.
tee23en 6 months ago
Reaper rushes and marauder rushes completely crush this
FableGhostie 6 months ago
@FableGhostie not really
imkopZy 6 months ago
I keep attempting this build, won 1 out of 5 games. Marine/marauder seems to destroy it, marauders destroy the hellions somehow and marines just rape everything. Need help, someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
TheReallydontcare 6 months ago
Just played 2 matches agianst a friend of mine who went this build. I had never seen it at all and i lost the first game pretty badly to blue flame hellion drop and banshee harass. But in the second game i won with thors and vikings. He ended up going for bc's with the build but upgraded thors with rine support (the ones that didnt melt) plus the vikings won the game.
Kingofthesnipe 7 months ago
I looked up iEchoic, and he basically placed in Master League in Season 2, then stopped laddering in 1v1 or playing in tournaments. Although he faded into oblivion, his build is still viable. I enjoy seeing Terran opponents laugh when I use this build (whether I win or lose) because TvT is so milktoast that they equate unorthodox play with gimmicky play.
elgilicious 7 months ago
havent lost to a terran after seeing this, gg :)
Skogluund 9 months ago 7
@Skogluund Do you still have a huge succes with this build?
KenDM 5 months ago
hmm idk why but for some reason whenever you started talking too him and getting all excited about the hellions it made me feel like i was watching an infomirtial and you were talking to someone who was trying to sell some "this is the best thing ever BUY IT" product/service lawl.
anthonywhistler 10 months ago
I believe his name is vileEchoic and he is ranked 900 something as of 3-22-11
n0s0luti0n1134 11 months ago
I think that his name is vileEchoic and that He is rank 900 something masters on northamarican
n0s0luti0n1134 11 months ago
iEchoic is #36 in DIAMOND, not Masters. Just look him up on sc2ranks
kabr4s 11 months ago
@kabr4s He was in the Master league when his post first appeared on teamliquid. You're well over a month late, sir. I take it he's dropped since it's midterm season.
fortyblinks 11 months ago
this could have been part of the no-marines-marauders-tanks-funday-monday :D
Konrad111111 11 months ago
0:00:00-1:00:35 Was the best part! ^^ .
MobilityRecon 11 months ago
skip forward to 13:37 to start the replay :O
sooooooooDark 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
DAY9 YOU ARE THE BIGGEST LOSER! SO YOU GO TO HARVEY MUDD COLLEGE? LOL, I GO TO HARVARD! YOU HAVE A GIRLFRIEND? GUESS WHAT, I HAVE 2 GIRLFRIENDS! YOU ARE GOOD AT SC1 AND SC2? HA! I WILL BE GOOD AT SC3! GET USED TO IT, I WIN YOU LOSE!!
diekontrolleure 11 months ago
hey day9 you need a mike when you do these frienday wednesdays. you make my ears hurt when iEchoic is so loud and you sound like ur whispering.
thoeezheeah 11 months ago
I am all for advertisements to get free stuff.... but these videos are getting to me. If only it wasn't the same ad over and over again!
MrBojangles1717 1 year ago
@Oreoclan the whole point of the build, though, is that you must maintain air control. If your opponent produces more vikings than you and then ALSO tanks and marowders, you have bigger fish to try
glopv2 1 year ago
Wouldn't this work very well against zerg?
Many of the early game zerg units are light armored, so easily disposed of by blue hellions and roaches cannot attack air.
The only issue is that mutas are very good against vikings. But I don't no their effectiveness against BC's.
Anyone got thoughts on this?
Hetro112 1 year ago
@Hetro112 The units are very good early in the game, but when zerg gets the lair, it's no longer as usefull. And then you have invested 10 minutes and alot of money in units and buildings that aren't longer going to be effective, i have tried and failed against zerg. But with terran, my opponents ragequitting is the standard if i succeed.
tsjca213 1 year ago
How come these vids aren't in HD anymore?
5Happysmoke 1 year ago
Anyone else think there image froze at 55:51-56:00ish?
He remained ever so still aside from subtle blinking.
NinjaOnANinja 1 year ago
Your french accent makes me laugh everytime <3
PandaTaim 1 year ago
@Naba008 maurowders would be a job for the banshees :P
glopv2 1 year ago
good god this is sexy.
Zeuts85 1 year ago
I mean, can't just marauders hold onto chokepoints, while maines shoot (especially air) from a distance? The last time (way before this build, though) I tried out massing hellions with air it just didn't work out because of the marauders, which apparently destroy hellions in moments. And what about conc. shells?
Naba008 1 year ago
But so, how did this build counter mass marauders with marine support? I don't get it.
Naba008 1 year ago
@Naba008 he did explain it at 48:35
darvasthehunter 1 year ago
@Naba008 Marines get DEMOLISHED by Blue Flame Hellions. Then all those Banshees DEMOLISH Marauders. Once the Marines die, you win the battle.
I think that this build only forces TvT to be more aware and control more efficiently. Sensor Towers and Viking air control would totally nullify any air-based harass, meaning they have to do run-bys. Tanks and Marine/Marauder for the Hellions, and Vikings for air control. Just changes my build to get earlier Marauders. I always rely on mass Vikings.
Oreoclan 1 year ago
@Oreoclan How are the marines demolished by the hellions, if the hellions are unable to get close to the marines, who are covered by a line of marauders? Unless the map is really spread out, I think they could manage.
Naba008 1 year ago
@Naba008 24 damage to light units+splash damage. Hellions are fast and have 90 HP vs the Marine's 45 (55 upgraded) NEXT QUESTION!
@glopv2 If my opponent outproduces me in Vikings, I just make more Vikings and make sure they don't die until I beat him in the Viking count and production. TvT is all about air control. Whoever has more Vikings will win unless he killed you early with infantry or somehow hit you from behind. The instant he loses air control, your tanks automatically beat his.
Oreoclan 11 months ago
@Oreoclan
Marauders are not light.
Marauders' show slows the targets down for the time of the attack cooldown - the upgrade costs only 50-50.
Hellions get slowed down and mowed down by big bulky path-blocking marauders. Marines safely watch out for air from behind.
At least, that is the ideal situation. I many times encounter a not well organized army, but if they position them well, hellions can't really do anything, other than giving you map control.
Naba008 11 months ago
@Naba008 Dude... Just watch the replays... The infantry army got DEMOLISHED. The splash damage adds up. And if you back up the Marines, the Banshees demolish the Marauders while the Hellions back up. Since he has more mobility, you WILL lose if both players micro.
And people WILL stop or slow Viking production once they feel they have air control. If not, good for them, you need to do something big to get back in the game or go overboard in Viking production.
And Banshees fail. Turrets fool!
Oreoclan 11 months ago
@Oreoclan So you say that I should judge a strategy and the way it can be countered by one single replay?
And don't forget that the person with the MM "army" is never afraid to tech towards banshees or thors.
And yes, good for them, that's what I say. You cannot outproduce a good player in vikings that way.
Banshees work great to pick off enemies from the front on the back, meaning that said enemy has to spend around 1200 minerals to completely defend his base.
Naba008 11 months ago
@Oreoclan Also note that ideally, you don't reveal your banshees until you have enough of them to nullify any turret-building attempts momentarily. Also, in bigger numbers, banshees WITHOUT cloak are an effective tool at picking off singular turrets and groups of marines, too. Of course, if you care to flee one or two back for repairs.
Your average guy wouldn't try to go Starport+reactor but would rather make his base safe.
Naba008 11 months ago
@Naba008 You don't really understand a good, long term TvT. You set up a contain to control as much of the map as possible. From there, you get Turrets right away because any Banshees can ruin your day. Once those Turrets are up, you don't need to do much but slow push your opponent and harass them. With air control, Banshees won't do much as long as you're active about keeping your Vikings (and perhaps your own Banshees) roaming around the map. And you also throw up Sensor Towers for drops.
Oreoclan 11 months ago
@Oreoclan It's a fact that I dislike long term rounds. Of course, I don't use banshees or any of these fancy units when the air harass ship is gone. :P
Naba008 11 months ago
@Naba008 So... You just spam infantry, knock on their door, and pray that the push worked... Have fun with that...
Oreoclan 11 months ago
@Oreoclan No, as I said, I hate infantry, and although I dislike playing a round for too long, I manage my resources and expos quite well. But then again, I always say that a round should end with your victory ASAP before the opponent can show off his tricks.
Naba008 11 months ago
@Naba008 Yeah... Winning ASAP is good because it doesn't burn your practice time... But in TvT I prefer playing steady and extending my advantages. From there, I wait for them to burn out because Terran has the ability to somehow raise itself from the dead if you don't kill them. You just wait for your opponent to give up or constantly fail in their attempts to break your contains/slow pushes. Your opponent can try tricks, but they'll fail if you cover the map properly.
Oreoclan 11 months ago
@Oreoclan winning asap is good if you just want points and portraits. playing a long macro game prepares you for long macro games that will happen at the higher levels.
damndamnd 9 months ago
@damndamnd Well if you find an all in or timing attack that works 90+% of the time why not do it? I mean, 5 rax Reaper isn't exactly a macro strategy, but it worked almost all the time until it got nerfed to hell. The same with 4 Gate before people learned how to effectively deal with them (yet it's still going to get nerfed). You go for the strategy that will give you the most wins. It's just that Blizzard is trying to make it so you have to macro and play the better game at the highest levels.
Oreoclan 9 months ago
@Oreoclan if you want to play like that go ahead. just saying its better to play with the intention of a long-term macro game then a cheesy quick all-in
damndamnd 9 months ago
@damndamnd Well, you play whatever will give you the most efficient win as well as a high win percentage. 4 Gate and 5 Rax did that. I personally don't ever go all in unless I see a clear opening early on or I'm messing around. You can call 4 Gate, 5 Rax Reaper, ling/baneling, or 2 Rax cheesy if you want, but they're standard because they're so effective with little to no downside if you execute it properly. 4 Gate is pretty much the only one without a legitimate transiton though...
Oreoclan 9 months ago
@Oreoclan Have fun with that. You will take the lower league players you play by a landslide, but don't expect to win MLG or anything. You can execute as well as you want, but if the other player holds it off, he wins and you look like a dumbass =/ I'd rather play with the intention of improving all my game rather than stick to one build that gets me wins.
damndamnd 9 months ago
@damndamnd Dude... You do realize 4 Gates and 5 Rax Reapers have been dominating at tournaments right? You do realize that Code A of the GSL is essentially nothing but cheese? You do realize that Code A of the GSL is MUCH tougher than MLG right? MarineKingPrime got the the finals of the Code S of the GSL (EVEN HIGHER than Code A) doing almost nothing but all in plays.
You do whatever works best to your style. I bet MKP would beat you 100 out of 100 games. Cheese is part of the game.
Oreoclan 9 months ago
@Oreoclan lol i bet MVP would beat you 100 out of 100 games also. There's a reason a strong macro player who relies on his own strengths like MVP can win over cheesy play. I'm not saying theres anything wrong with cheese. In Bo7's, you generally want to cheese one or two games to throw your opponent off. But if you, a low level player, rely on cheese all your games, you won't really improve. I'm not talking about the Pros, I'm talking about casual gamers.
damndamnd 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@damndamnd "I'm not saying theres anything wrong with cheese."
FALSE!
"You will take the lower league players you play by a landslide, but don't expect to win MLG or anything."
Glad to know you think Code S is filled with the lower league players.
"I'm not talking about the Pros, I'm talking about casual gamers."
FALSE!
"don't expect to win MLG or anything."
"playing a long macro game prepares you for long macro games that will happen at the higher levels."
"Higher levels" caps at pros.
Oreoclan 9 months ago
@damndamnd I'll admit I'm being quite a bitch with the last post... Bad day but still... I stand by my points.
Oreoclan 9 months ago
@Oreoclan No. Not only is cheese easy to spot but it's really easy to counter. Reapers are really unorthodox and mostly useless. In high level tournaments usually a cheesed player wins with better micro or some clever thinking. But what do I know I'm only in masters.
GoldwinTime 7 months ago
@GoldwinTime Reapers aren't useless. Ask NaDa. He RAPED a Code S Terran with them. And there's a 3 Reaper build that's pretty powerful (but damage can be minimized if you spot it and spread your Marines around the cliffs). And in high level player, the cheesed player wins about as much as he loses. NaDa got cheesed out of the semifinals last Code S, and Code A is known for being loaded with all sorts of all ins. And you can pull a HuK and proxy 2 of your 4 Gates to surprise your opponent.
Oreoclan 7 months ago
@Oreoclan Firstly, I said mostly useless you moron. I never said that reapers are useless in every scenario. I've never had early readers do more then 2 SCVs worth of damage.
And no it's not. In all my master games I think I've lost maybe one game to cheese. I don't know where on earth you're getting this information from but it is incorrect.
GoldwinTime 7 months ago
@Oreoclan About the one you wrote to glopv2, I have to disagree. You normally CANNOT outproduce someone in vikings, unless you try to destroy his vikings from ground aswell - even if you pull up two starports, he will always have more vikings and will win the viking war if you just try to outnumber him.
Also, positioning siege tanks to abuse the +1 range from viking vision is slow to micro.
The enemy can just go for banshees in that time, waste your scans and demolish your tanks. I did it.
Naba008 11 months ago
Comment removed
SetbabyStarCraft 1 year ago
serious acid trip at 0:52:30
brigbjones 1 year ago 24
screw you youtube inbox!!! why do you hate my man-crush on day[9]?
brigbjones 1 year ago
This build seems so versatile, I love it. Its just like get anything you need to counter them, and just keep harassing at different angles.
LeviathanCove 1 year ago
this build could make use of reapers in mid to late game because what reapers do best (scouting and killing buildings.) is what this build could benefit most from.
MecMachinic 1 year ago
Its like TKO every game, they all gg:ed without loosing any significant structures. I feel walling in and protecting mineral lines with structures. Awesome anyhow!
TheOddOne2 1 year ago
@TheOddOne2 You will have to expand eventually and they can still do drops and the like. As iEchoic said there isn't a "hard counter" you could win or lose depending on who plays better.
Plus if you just wall in then the Hellion player could mass expand like a Zerg, and get my favorite Terran unit... Battlecruisers.
LeviathanCove 1 year ago
Google better get me a goddamn french wife if they're showing this many commercials.
MaximumZiggurat 1 year ago
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MaximumZiggurat 1 year ago
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MaximumZiggurat 1 year ago
Please Day9, upload in better quality than just 480p...
FurretG 1 year ago
@FurretG it would take hours to upload an hour long video in 1080p -_-
JpeltakaCyberBeast 1 year ago
r u blind day9 ?^^
the glasses sure make u look like u r :D
alphantom11 1 year ago
Tried this tactic. LIke it alot! Did 3 TvT games and won all of them without any bigger problems! To bad i think every terran player who watch your videos are going to use this build further on :(
herbits 1 year ago
Thanks iEchoic! Love the way you think at this build, its nice to think out of the regular TvT build! I think this build have a lot of potential even in T v Z...
4jerome 1 year ago
this guy sounds hella like idra...
strider206 1 year ago
@strider206 You have heard idra talk right?????? because he sounds nothing like him?
UtterJustice 1 year ago
@UtterJustice Not day9, the guy he brings in.... iEchoic.. He sounds exactly like him, he has the same speech patterns and uses the same words too...
strider206 1 year ago
@strider206 I wasnt talking about day9 and he just doesnt go watch Imbalanced youll know what he sounds like
UtterJustice 1 year ago
@strider206 its a secret, but iEchoic is Idras terran account... shhh dont tell lol jk
JpeltakaCyberBeast 1 year ago
lol 52:30 on is pretty epic
theabyscalls 1 year ago
so many damn ads.
collinvn 1 year ago
wtf Korean advertisement
BlackRiderBob 1 year ago
Most epic thing I learnd from Day 9 is the obs pillow :D
erion1337 1 year ago
no HD? sadfaec
SuperHaloStarwarsFan 1 year ago
Day9, what format are you uploading? I think Youtube doesn't like it. Your vids trip out alot.
TheRealTrikein 1 year ago
Okay, normally I don't mind these ad's but they have been streaming so slow lately.
stolenidentity1 1 year ago
Apparently this unit composition doesn't work against IMMvp's Marines :/
redsword87 1 year ago
these ads come at like the worst times possible :/
USMBfrij 1 year ago
@USMBfrij
1. Get Firefox
2. Install ht#tps://addo#ns.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/a#ddon/adblock-plus/ (remove the 3 # signs from the link)
3. Select the EasyLisk filter
Enjoy ad-less YouTube videos, but can you live with yourself knowing you're denying them the ad revenue?
Esoremada 1 year ago
@Esoremada does this adblock system cost money?
Brotatoe1030 1 year ago
@Brotatoe1030 no
bpcoxkr 1 year ago
@Esoremada LOL, I know all that, I honestly don't wanna deny them the revenue D:
USMBfrij 1 year ago
raaahther
listedaswicked 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Day9 is to polite to ask for it, so i will, If you like his videos.. LIKE HIS VIDEOS!
i see 191 likes, 6,442 views... COME ON
Push that button! Let him know yo.
Thumb this up to remind others!
ginbelg2 1 year ago
weird how helions arent armored, but there mech, so maraders or tanks dont do extra dmg, shure tanks would wreck, but helions are fast, run in, take 3-4 shots from the tanks, kill his rines, then banshees kill the tanks, but you blizz is gonna patch this lol, this and queens, wait, helions count as light, what would you do if the other guy did this?
DarkArtz212 1 year ago
weird how helions arent armored, but there mech, so maraders or tanks dont do extra dmg, shure tanks would wreck, but helions are fast, run in, take 3-4 shots from the tanks, kill his rines, then banshees kill the tanks, but you blizz is gonna patch this lol, this and queens
DarkArtz212 1 year ago
@DarkArtz212 It's because a Hellions outer shell is 78% polymer.
Cherrybloodsyrup 1 year ago
What if they put the marines behind their tanks until your hellions are dead?
Seems way too fragile-if you don't kill everything that shoots you banshees, you insta-lose to tanks.
256Milo 1 year ago
Flue blame hellions are so frutal and imfa. They furn the marines so bucking bast. Unfelievafle!!! :D
lenhhoxung99 1 year ago 18
@kenji8763 Thought I'd had a few too many at 52mins :D
th4t9uy 1 year ago
I didn't like a lot of your recent casts but this one was great day9. Good stuff, thanks!
Pallienl 1 year ago
1:31 - freaking hilarious.
jedclark123 1 year ago
lol 10 mins in...."Well uh." *CUT*
BadSanta1995 1 year ago
damn that zealot was hawt in ogsmc's pic! lol xD
MrDuckKiller52 1 year ago
and.. uum... but uum.....
MrSanji168 1 year ago
Day9 is to polite to ask for it, so i will, If you like his videos.. LIKE HIS VIDEOS!
i see 96 likes, 3,619 views... COME ON
Push that button! Let him know yo.
ginbelg2 1 year ago 3
@ginbelg2 i keep forgeting to like videos...
TheShootHappy 1 year ago
Day 9 do more frienddays! This is incredibly educational.
Razomir 1 year ago 3
Lol I only use YouTube on my iPhone no ads
I'm so imba..
ShowStoppaSaurs 1 year ago
@ShowStoppaSaurs so imba with your 2" screen?
TheShootHappy 1 year ago
Hm. 720? :o
mrtvi46 1 year ago
"Ultra handspeed king"
zethgb 1 year ago
we want a daily without pants!
Mausismi 1 year ago
planetary fortress on the natural
yppers 1 year ago
You should do a " Chillday Sunday" so you like play 2-3 ladders and comment them :) thumbs up so he see it
MrHrvatBLABLA 1 year ago 114
@MrHrvatBLABLA but chillday doesnt rhime with sunday very well :(
JpeltakaCyberBeast 1 year ago
@MrHrvatBLABLA that doesnt rhyme
mcmcman2 1 year ago
@MrHrvatBLABLA
day9 doesn't read comments... ? ;D
I123456789II 1 year ago
Google ad every 10 min?! Get firefox and adblock gimps... No ads here...
Wakookaka 1 year ago 4
@Wakookaka 1 ad every 5 vids... can live with it =P
TheShootHappy 1 year ago
<3 those glasses :DD
GWVanquard 1 year ago
One problem with this build vs siege tank marine is if the mech player sieges correctly, then the meching player can just kite the helions around the tank fire, and then just blast the banshee's down with the marines once the helions have suffered losses.
rodgu 1 year ago
48:02 Haha MULEs imba, even in TvT.
pkranger93 1 year ago
TLO just owned a euro tournament on TVT with mass mass blue flames
shiethpns63 1 year ago 2
im a rts noob, never played them before starcraft 2, I placed bronze everything, im now gold everything, but man i thought i was a hardcore gamer, using my ps3, but i give props to any sc2 player because this is the hardest and most labour intensive videogame i have ever played
McguireTheGamer 1 year ago 52
@McguireTheGamer give brood war a try, if you think sc2 is hard. lmao.
hellopellos 1 year ago
@hellopellos And what makes Brood War is much harder than SC2?
zhopenza 1 year ago
@zhopenza 12 unit selection max, workers dont automine, dumb ai, you can select more than one building, bad hotkeys, hard macro.
hellopellos 1 year ago
@hellopellos I guess I can agree with that, although I still think you're pointing out the flaws rather than reasons old SC is "hard".
zhopenza 1 year ago
@zhopenza doesnt bad mechanics make a hard game?
guess not. lmao.
hellopellos 1 year ago
@zhopenza Mass Koreans. Mass mass mass Koreans (there are no separate servers.)
yoshomg 1 year ago
Comment removed
Naba008 1 year ago
@McguireTheGamer
I started Bronze. Now I'm 3k Diamond. You have to play A LOT. I used to play competitive CS 1.6 and this game is MUCH harder. What you say is true.
rashin 1 year ago
google go home a dont say anyhing cuz these ads are bs
oSil3NTFuRRii 1 year ago
day9 y u so suuuave?
MrPumpkinss 1 year ago
"kill his shitty ex" XD NICE
dantevindi 1 year ago
How do I send my replays? I have a really good (but nooby for Tuesday) replay where I trick my opponent.
KardOfHeart 1 year ago
i didnt know starports were fast
oSil3NTFuRRii 1 year ago
what the HELL, this is awesome.
JoshPelekaiOfficial 1 year ago
So what happens when meta game switches to this...
BIackCows 1 year ago
@BIackCows thors rape this build fucking hard.
he wont get battlecruisers of 1 or 2 bases and hellions arent very effective against thors, neither are banshees.
hellopellos 1 year ago
@hellopellos Except that you'll be highly mobile with your force (and thors are slow), and capable of destroying their economy (thus, no mass thors). If they get one thor out it's not a biggie, but if you let them mass thors, then it's your fault for not using the build as intended. You're right; thors can rip through your forces so don't let them get the finances to mass them in the first place.
DJFriez 1 year ago
@DJFriez echoic says it himself that thor builds are good against this. also, building placement and turrets.
hellopellos 1 year ago
@hellopellos I wasn't saying they weren't! I'm just saying your best bet is to try and mineral harass them as much as possible to try and prevent yourself from being crushed by thors (which are relatively expensive).
DJFriez 1 year ago
@DJFriez im talking about how to beat echoic build :p
hellopellos 1 year ago
Im so happy for Echoic and everything he's doing in the StarCraft 2 world. I knew him years ago back when he was #1 in Halo Wars. You guys should check some of his old Halo Wars 1v1s if you wanna see where he got his start.
LaNDoNx18 1 year ago
A commercial with 35 seconds left to go wtf.
NauticalPhoenix 1 year ago
I think psy has his own TvT build that is alike to this (psy's is more for lulz tho)
early fac, early port, time a reactor on the fac with the port, swap the port onto the reactor, and mass up vikings, get 8 vikings, go to ur opponent's base, land, and own, while doing that, make lots of infantry, when you are moving out with 8 vikings, upgrade them, and move out with them when your vikings reach your opponent's base
TheNeCafe 1 year ago
Thank you internet....for ad blocker.
xTriiPyyy 1 year ago
@all how complain about ads: Get AdBlockPlus or Watch it in your iPhone/pod -> no ads
StillTheBlackHand 1 year ago
err... i had all of the ads in the entire video be the stupid french ones. arrrggg
wii9997 1 year ago
It's a windows 7 feature which detects Skype and fucks up all your volume.
.....mydigitallife.info/2009/08/07/adjust-volume-level-when-place-or-receive-telephone-calls-in-windows-7/
I found that earlier and fixed it.
3wsgabav3 1 year ago
hooray, no more 30 seconds ads, the bad news is, DAY 9 wont be making money i think
DecadentDetective 1 year ago
Comment removed
3wsgabav3 1 year ago
@3wsgabav3 To be honest, just get the Ad block plus add-on for FireFox or Chrome. Completely removes all ads on every websites and also before and during the videos on Yotube and other video sites.
Haven't seen an ad for about 3 years now.
AlmightyUniden 1 year ago
HOLY BALLS ADS GO DIE
IIIGavinJohnsonIII 1 year ago
holy shiet , the ad time increases..everytime there i an add..which is about 10 min :/
hieppeihftw 1 year ago
this guy really doesnt seem to have much personality - seems like day9 is really trying to encourage him to talk and expand his ideas.
RetroGamer0001 1 year ago
@RetroGamer0001 hes only here to discus his build does he have to be as spontanious/gay as huk 24/7? i think he did a great job tbh
hiphopheadlyricist 1 year ago
Day[9]. That name is pronounced Hash. B Net wouldn't let him be 'Hash' so he added an e. He talks about it with Psy. Not Hash-ay.
teachj1 1 year ago
Spoiler at 0:00
tristancow 1 year ago
AAAHHHHHH!!!! I hate American Idol. 7 ads Boooooo
Tenorpan 1 year ago
what happened to the HD :(
retrobmx63 1 year ago
An unskippable, Google commercial every 10 minutes is a bit annoying.
myleskreiter 1 year ago
Man, day9 always giving new choices to the SC players, and improving and supporting the community, thanks man! keep doing what you do! you are awesome!
dalvarox27 1 year ago
why are there like 7 adds throughout this video? =_=\\ does it have to be that many?
ArresChang 1 year ago
if u guys actually read th ethread, iechoic says Ghost ( are terrible) lmao! that made me lOLOLOLOlol
hieppeihftw 1 year ago