Why do intelligent people still believe in religion? 11: Paradigm shifts are harsh!

[JapaneseStudentSan]

When will people learn that finding out you were wrong, even about something you believed for decades, is a GOOD thing?

[mykmmc]

I guess my friends are lucky I know a few of 50 somethings that are now open to the idea of no god more then ever and i'm in the midwest

[Campineiroamericano]

@anubis2814: you are absolutely right about the paradigm shift. I went through it 5 years ago at age 45, when I became an atheist, and man, it was scary, because I realized there was no all-powerful invisible daddy ready to rescue me from the dangers of life. I understand a deconversion can be a dangerous psychological shock for those with more frail minds.

[fallbread]

ya its going to get messy but I hope some day we get through it interesting vid

[CallMeIshmael999]

I can attest that the paradigm shift was what held me back when I first deconverted. Everything had to go one step at a time, else it was too much for my mind to take.The first step was losing my homophobia, which I gradually accepted destroyed biblical inerrancy, then I lost creationism, then I lost prayer, then I lost any kind of divine intervention at all in the world, believing the clockworker God made the world as he liked. Then I lost even that, and became an atheist. But it took years.

[gethsoftware]

Ameirca was the good guy on ww2? no, i dont think so. sure they where not intrested of joining in to the war before they where attacked. but america hardly was "good guy". good guy whuld not bomb an civilian centers in belgium, france and germany. in war, there are only villans. now what whuld have happend if axis whuld have won? well, people whuld not be "speaking germany" instead, just like usa, germany and japane whuld have had bigger spear of influence.

[gethsoftware]

@gethsoftware allso, im not saying germans where the "good guys". and i definetly say that holocaust was wrong. i even consive the crimes my country did in ww2. finland had like usa had consentration camps for russians in karelia in ww2 bechose fear of rebelion. while intetion was to keep conditions humane, over 1000 people died bechsoe of failed crops. same thing with war prisoners. later years of war, the camps where diband as usless. im allso aware of german commandos executed in bulge.

[naturalistmind]

i never considered this, i guess i should stop bringing insurmountable mountains of evidence against my older family members beliefs then....

[rickysims212]

Great video! Ignore all the idiots. "I'll pray for you" LOL

[midwest9757]

what i heard....bla bla bla (nerdy voice) bla bla bla i know everything bla bla FUCK OFF COCK STROKE

[anubis2814]

@midwest9757 Sounds like you are just filled with love and goodness. I've looked through your posts on other channels and trolling is something you do more often than not. You aren't spreading love or wisdom for the most part to anyone, just a lot of arrogance and bullying. Maybe you need to work on that before you tell me how you have risen above and found peace.

[CutePig59]

@midwest9757 You must be so proud to be a Christian, Muslim, Jew, Mormon, Scientologist, Raelian, JW, Christian Scientist (I can't even type it without snickering), Orthodox, Mayan theist. How loving, compassionate and humble. Further proof that atheists and agnostics know more about your religion, mythology, superstitions that you do. Keep in mind what Jesus allegedly taught: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And, he who is without sin, cast the first stone.

[CutePig59]

@midwest9757 That doesn't sound very Christian of you.

On second thought!

[midwest9757]

@CutePig59 what a smug piglet you are assuming ones background way to jump in on a conversation that didnt involve you, i bind myself to no religion, i hate all religions and all organized groups that depend on oneness of mind thus taking an individuals freedom...dnt recite scripture to me, read the rest of my commentary before trying to strong arm me politely

[CutePig59]

@midwest9757 This is my last comment to you and about you.  You, my dear sir/madam are a troll. I will no longer feed you.

[ThatGuyWithHippyHair]

Well shoot. I consider myself very lucky now that I deconverted sooner rather than later.

[Paur]

6:51 = WINNING

[8698gil]

My parents forced me to go to church throughout my childhood, and I also had to go to weekly evening bible class. When I was 14, the class instructor told my Dad that he didn't want me there anymore because I always challenged him and disrupted the class. After that I didn't have to go to church anymore, either, and it was great. I remember lying in bed waiting for my parents to tell me to get up for church, and when they didn't, I knew I was free at last.

[8698gil]

Some people do seem to have a very difficult time when they give up their religious beliefs, and others, like myself, have no problem at all. But although I was raised in a strict christian home, I never fully believed it, and I had no belief at all left by the time I was 10 or 11. I hated church, found it endlessly boring and pointless, as well as physically torturing to sit on a hard wooden bench for 2 hours without moving or talking.

[mrtadreamer]

why? because they are intelligent.

[dsg0006]

anubis2814, you over analyze everything. I can believe in god, and I don't think that even if god was proven to be non-existant (absolutely impossible to prove) it wouldn't rock my world. Antheism is basically believing something can come out of nothing, and I think that the universe is a big something. You're retarded. I just shat all over your beliefs, go ahead and kill yourself motherfucker.

[anubis2814]

@dsg0006 I will take that I over think things as the greatest compliment in the world as the average person doesn't think about things hardly at all. I do not believe something came from nothing, but via the laws of the universe and property called emergence can cause order to come out of chaos while at the same time causing order to return to chaos. Where the initial disorganized energy came from, none of us know, but claiming its god now has to explain who intelligently made god

[midwest9757]

dude your simply a sponge for other peoples dogma's that has not yet developed the ability to think with the freedom that comes from standing alone...stand alone detached from all things, religion mone

[midwest9757]

@anubis2814 your needy...you need to feel like your helping people in some way with your rationalizing life into the simple thing youve made it, i understand your thought processes i myself at one time was playing the same tune...but i transcended to a even higher plane, your current problem is pride and it is blocking your potential, humble yourself and the beauty of wisdom will smile on you like never before

[anubis2814]

@midwest9757 I describe things simply because i have to explain it to people who don't are educated deeply. Please share with me your transcendent wisdom you have divined. We are a collection of the knowledge of others build on discoveries made by people before us. I had a massive collection on my own ideas that after discovering the scientific process all fell on their heads. I do feel my work helps people out of the shitty situation i was in I cannot allow that experience to be in vain

[midwest9757]

@anubis2814 were i currently reside (the higher plane i previously spoke of) is not a collection of wise sayings or clever/elaborate well thought out ways of looking at things...it is a knowing and can only be achieved by the breaking down of everything u know and love(also afore mentioned) once stripped of anything tht ever mattered being reduced to the state of an animal, u begin the process of developing onesself free from all outside influence

[anubis2814]

@midwest9757 So if its something I cannot choose and I will either have it happen to me or not, why are you lording over me your superiority? Sounds like arrogance, which also should go against your wisdom. Your ideas sound a lot like Buddhist enlightenment which I felt I had achieved at one point. It gave me great sensations and spiritual feelings. The need for closure is a natural bias that gives us a great feeling when we feel we know stuff especially when others don't.

[midwest9757]

@anubis2814 sir,no intentions superiority,only a knowing and i never said i had wisdom,im a stupid human that for the most part is lead by his emotions and cravings,something that i desire to discipline myself out of, wht i speak of has nothing to do with sensations or feelings,i said its not something u can choose to undergo,its horrific and if presented as a choice no one in their right mind would accept, thats why i say it "happens"but when following the path to truth it is an inevitability

[midwest9757]

@anubis2814 wow did you even read my previous comment? im not pretending to be anything, good or bad! im well aware of what i am as a human, what i know is simply that, What I Know...it cannot be refuted because its owned entirely by me because it did not come from someone elses book,or teaching,or belief!!! my shortcomings take nothing away from what has been said,i previously admitted to being a stupid human led by emotions and cravings,which i desire to stop.so thanks for judging

[anubis2814]

@midwest9757 Well I tend to hold people by their own standard. You can say you aren't judging, but if your actions reflect it I'm going to hold you to that. I don't know why you felt the need to share that you found wisdom with me that you could not share with me, being quiet about it would have done just as much good. Now you just sound like a weird arrogant new agey pseudo-scientist, and I really have no idea what you are talking about because you by definition can't tell me.

[midwest9757]

@anubis2814 i did not say i dont judge, I READILY accept and aknowledge my inconsistencies(we all have them) just because you didnt expierence and dont understand does not mean that im arrogant or wierd! come outside the boxes that are created to confine you and you will understand!!! its not vague/psuedoscience its plain and clear!! subscribing to any group or labeling yourself deminishes your ability to come to CLEAR decisions/understanding. you will be manipulated by external influences

[midwest9757]

@anubis2814 it is a scary process to undergo and cannot be simply chosen as something u want to do, it "happens" and when it does u have no control of what you may say or do while deprived of your humanity,thus i cannot edify your craving of intellectual depth with the back and forth philosophies of this age,there are now only those who "know" and those who do not yet know, the mind is the trickiest battleground of all, the very defense mechanisms u warn of are at work in your mind in a deep way

[yerk3]

@midwest9757 What a well constructed knot of mystical vaguery. It seems to have gummed up the workings of your mind pretty well.

[midwest9757]

@yerk3 its not vague my friend its laid out plainly what happened, the knowing may be the vague part to you because u didnt have the same expierance...in a nutshell the things i once believed i threw into the toilet and pissed on them,became nothing more than an animal and a depository for darkness and insanity,lost all that made me human and expierenced firsthand the arm of darkness envelope my whole being,a times concocted elaborate theories behind the innerworkings of society some which may

[midwest9757]

@yerk3 be true but thats besides the point...previosly i knew of only one world(goodness light) i was now a fully functioning member of a world i didnt know existed and i was ready to kill and be killed their was fear of nothing!(which in itself is scary) i had out of body expierences...when i was pulled out of the horrific reality that i allowed myself to fall into all that i once believed was no longer a belief but a knowing, I felt insanity break off me i felt pieces of light break into me

[AcanLord]

@dsg0006

You said"atheism is the belief that something can come from nothing"

No its not.its the lack of belief in deities.

Those arent the same.

Something being created from nothing "creation ex nihilo" does however play

center stage in genesis though, where by Yahweh forms everything from"nothing".Even yahweh himself, "assuming he is something" also comes from nothing since he is aparently without origin.

it is infact theists that believe in creation ex nihilo, not atheists.

[PirateMonkeyFilmz]

@dsg0006 So either the entire universe comes from nothing, or the entire universe comes from god, who had no creator, meaning that he comes from nothing, meaning that the entire universe comes from nothing. Which one makes more sense?

[jaredmills06]

@dsg0006 “Antheism is basically believing something can come out of nothing…”

No, that is not what Atheism is. Atheism is "…a person who rejects belief in God, regardless of whether or not his reason for the rejection is the claim that 'God exists' expresses a false proposition.” - Edwards, Paul (2005) [1967]. "Atheism". In Donald M. Borchert. The Encyclopedia of Philosophy. Vol. 1 (2nd ed.). MacMillan Reference USA (Gale). p. 359. [Word limit restricts source list]

[1212JackJohnson]

@dsg0006 That wasa nice diatribe for a (presumably) christian. Atheism isnotwhat you thinkit is. If you are interested you could easily find out what it is and also that the universe probably DID come out of nothing. However, as a christian you are probably not interested in learning facts so this post is awaste of time. I'm an atheist (you probably guessed) and I dont want you to kill yourself - I want you to open yourmind and LEARN.

[1212JackJohnson]

@dsg0006 Please excuse the errors - my keyboard is sticking!

[qusai309]

"creation unscientfic"

nethir do evolution

[AcanLord]

@qusai309 You should try rephrasing that. i don`t understand.

[FoxOutsideBox]

3:00  SHPONGLE!

[TheFirstBlackEmoKid]

I don't think that I have the inteligence and knowledge to engage in conversation with you guys, but I have a question. Do you ever fear that you could be going to Hell since your an atheist at all. Cause what prevents me from steering from my beliefs is the fear of Hell.

[anubis2814]

@TheFirstBlackEmoKid Near the end of this series I go over the psychology involved in any phobia which is an irrational fear. Your fear of hell was programmed into you with the best of intentions but its still irrational. In that 4 part section I go over how to overcome your own hadephobia (fear of hell).

[midwest9757]

@TheFirstBlackEmoKid a belief is something you decided to believe in because it sounded good or right...love for god not fear should hold you to your beliefs until your beliefs are no longer beliefs but truths that are irrefutable because life proved the things tht you only believed b4 to be absolute truth, others having never expierenced the things u did will be amazed by the boldness you possess, thts why u currently shy and uncertain when speaking to others about beliefs. hang in there!

[annie46664]

If you discovered that Obama was in fact a 'direct-line' descendant of Jesus Christ & (Black Ethiopian Goddess) Mary Magdalene, would it change your opinion of this highly spiritual being living 'hell' at the moment with his hands completely & utterly tied by the Illuminati?

Read here: whatdoesitmean. com/index1505. htm (no gaps!)

Live LOVE & LIGHT,

A long time fan of Obama's, thanks to Matthew Ward's divine guidance. Matthew has NEVER mentioned the possibility of the above though. :)

VO

[AkaiTsukiShimitsu]

Whoa... the gates of hell image looks awsome~! O.O

[tristanv1]

@darthelghastN7 Thank you, much appreciated. if the videos you talk about are on the web, you can just send me the web links and be sure that i will watch them.

Although i still do consider myself as a believer, i'm willing to listen to any intelligent argument that is presented to me. i guess that's what separates open minded people from hardcore religious nut jobs.

[clintonskakun]

good thing I had my paradigm shift early in life and not after

[VigilanteNighthawk]

For me, the biggest barrier to believing that America was responsible for the Holocaust would simply be all the prior evidence I had scene. The idea, in abstract at least, that America could do such a thing is not a foreign concept to me. I'm Native American. Do the math.

[anubis2814]

@VigilanteNighthawk This discussion is not about whether the holocaust happened, but how it would effect you if you found out that it wasn't. How you are convinced is irrelevant.

[CutePig59]

@VigilanteNighthawk Here here brother. Also, how long did it take the US to enter WW II? For Britain and Canada WW II was from 1939 - 1945. The US didn't come into the picture until 1942. Still trading and doing business with Germany.

[anubis2814]

@ymalmsteen887 Every time you think about something you literally rewrite the memory many times with new information

[Shavarnarak]

I have an atheist grandma actually. Which isn't to odd for her time and location in MY country. But I bet for the US it'd be nigh unheard of.

I find it very interesting to discuss the topic with her because her reasons for it are generally actually far more, it not exclusively about ethics rather then scientific rationality. Things like the problem of evil and such. Rejecting the idea that christianity is at all moral. (Not rejecting the idea that christians themselves can nice, just the faith)

[TheEntryCode]

"An evil, bloodthirsty vengeful God once you've actually read the Bible without bias and started reading what it actually said." xD Completely true, I couldn't figure how God has always been portrayed as good and full of humility when he was ordering the Jews to kill, slaughter and take over other people's land in the Old Testament.

[unassumption]

what level of belief has to change for something to be a "paradigm shift" - not all changes are that stressful, how big a belief reorganization is impossible or hard to take? How big IS god? does it depend how big he was in your life before?

[sonicsoul0]

i can change my memory very very easily, im highly evolved that way, its called rational thinking.....

[unassumption]

@sonicsoul0 #

...did you just use the phrase highly evolved? What are you, a medieval "ladder of creation" type?

[sonicsoul0]

@unassumption oh I see what has happened, I meant to say MIND, and you got confused, no man im fuking Buddhist, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[tristanv1]

I really dont know what to think anymore. it seems that everybody i know has it all figured out except me. my reiligous family and friends are 100% sure of their beliefs. i wish i had their certinity so that i dont have to go search for the answers on the web from atheists and religious people.

i still consider myself a religious person but there is doubt in my heart.

[anubis2814]

@tristanv1 If you think you know everything, you probably know nothing.  If you have intellectual honesty, an appetite for learning, and the humility to say when you don't know something then go discover what you don't know, then you are well on your way.

[Spheate]

I knew it was about your Mom. You've used the "over 50" argument in more than one section of this, and I had this feeling it was a way of reassuring yourself that your Mom was deluded and simply unable to change her views because, well, she's over 50. What about Antony Flew? People are not clinging to the idea of belief. That makes no sense. Don't you think humanity's natural disposition would be to reject authority, hell, etc.? Wouldn't most of them prefer to be godless?

[anubis2814]

@Spheate Its actually not about my mom.  My mom is the reason I stayed in the faith for so long, and she taught me the apologetics of the religion so well and taught me the creativity to continue to rationalize the religion. I was taught to go with the evidence and because of apologetics and creationism that was the evidence I needed. When the evidence was finally destroyed by actual science I had no choice but to drop belief. Mom does not have the time or energy to learn all i know.

[wyatt675]

@anubis2814 so basically your calling your mom stupid

[anubis2814]

@wyatt675 Nope just uneducated and unexamined, there is a major difference. Why I called this series "Why do INTELLIGENT people still believe in religion?" not "Why do complete morons...?" Though in cases like Nephilimfree maye I should

[killuminatiplz]

6:55 the funniest shit i've ever seen to date.............AND IM BLACK

[TrevorHarris881]

nice job

[PikminDS]

I've watched every one of your videos up to this point and am very satisfied as it gives me the insight of a former theist. I don't think you could ever have called me a Christian as the only thing that had me hold on to it was the fear of hell - everything else I let go of very early on, perhaps between the ages of 6 and 10.

[bijoukaiba]

@PikminDS This.

I started questioning when I was like 8 or 9. I remember telling my mom, "I thought science made everything?" I actually went through different stages of wanting to be Jewish (because I wanted a bat mitzvah, lol) and Buddhist.

I think another part of what made me want to leave Christianity was the fact that I hated getting up early to shower, dress nice, and sit and do nothing for two hours when I could have slept in or watched TV on Sunday mornings. Hey, I was a KID!! XD

[PikminDS]

@bijoukaiba I wasn't one to go soul searching so I didn't really look into other religions. For a short time I did want to believe in reincarnation, not that it worked out; I couldn't justify it to myself how it would or even could work. As for Sundays, going to church seemed to phased out over the years presumably because my parents failed to see the point of taking me. They assumed that I was a Christian though, and thought that until a few years ago when I came out as an atheist.

[unassumption]

@bijoukaiba

Here I was thinking I was the only one wanting to be Jewish...because I actually believed they ruled the media, finance and academic world at the time, when I realized that was false too, dropped that idea. Plus old testement god was so BADASS, not like that pussy Jesus (my warmongering 11 year old self thought Hitler and Stalin were badasses too lol)

Some elements of Budhism aren't too bad, (don't desire stuff you can't achieve, cause and effect, etc) though it's SO depressing.

[TheTekken7]

yea fortunately for me, my paradigm shift to atheism was almost painless. this is because it was slow and began when i was 6 or 7.

[Korkzor]

Really interesting about the memorys getting "rewritten".

The more you understand how the brain works, the more you can avoid falling in to the traps it sets for you.

Really liking the series so far.

[artman2oo3]

3:20 LOL :)

[abdishtar]

I grew up baptist fundie (yeah, a northern version of Westboro), and my paradigm shift happened in one of the worst periods of my life. From that I religion hopped just to find something else to believe. I was deeply troubled when I left the religion, eventually to finally become an atheist.

Very true, it is difficult and we do need to help those who try to make the shift along. It's hard though when your mother is a fundie, and you are at pains to tell her you don't belive when she pushes it

[lamjer68]

This is something that I never really thought of before, and gives me better insight....very nice. :)

[enigmatically]

some of the paintings you picked for this video were extremely trippy

[NisseHult101]

An interesting and thought-provoking video as always. Thanks!

[shaunad1967]

@Anubis2814

Interesting video, though I would challenge the generalization of the older generation being ever unable to change. This after all is the generation where the beginning of WW2 armies were using bi-planes and 6 yrs later we had jet engines. I think it would be more accurate to say elderly people become more staid as technology becomes less relevant to your individual normal life.

[anubis2814]

I discussed this concept in another video in this series. If an elderly person kept their minds active, their ability to change is not as hard. however the older generation in general were not encouraged to do so.

[kmonster420]

The Hitler/WW2 analogy is brilliant. Fucking blew my mind!!

[rjminns]

This is truly scary! Not for the reasons stated though.

[unseenstrings]

When I was a Christian, I must have started unconsciously drifting towards deism, because I quit believing in spirits, or what may be called ghosts. My 9/10 year old son seemed to share my conviction. So we went to a graveyard one night to prove to ourselves that ghost didn't exist. We were both quite confident and unafraid. Then I mention the overwhelming power of fear-evoking imagery and words (stories). He said nothing could make him afraid because Carl Sagan's, "Cosmos" helped him understand

[unseenstrings]

So at that point I proceeded to invent a very scary story. I put a little quiver in my voice & shivered a bit while looking over my shoulder as I was telling the tale. I suggested that so many people believed in ghosts that there must be good reason to believe. I told of having seen a lawn-service person carrying a machete as we drove in. I couldn't figure why he was working so late. And I acted confused & asked what type of brush the caretaker could have been cutting to make the blade look red.

[unseenstrings]

Every so often I would pause the story to stare out into the dark & ask, "what was that?" All of a sudden I screamed out that something had grabbed me by the leg. With one leg sticking out behind me I acted as if I was struggling against an unknown force. My son started screaming too. I immediately dropped my act and reminded him that the story was just pretend. He said, "Yeah, I know dad, but LETS GO!" Even with reassurance, he continued to shake and cry until the cemetery was well behind us.

[unseenstrings]

I suspect that evolution has designed us in such a way that once something has evoked within us intense fear, we will strive to avoid that something by any means possible. Also, once such fear has been established, no rationalizing can make the fear go away. You can easily trick a child into not going out into the dark with tales of the bogyman. But you cannot convince the same child that going out into the dark is okay because you were "just kidding." Even most adults have this characteristic.

[crazypills2]

anubis2814,

I've been enjoying your series. I think you bring up some good points and definitely provoke thought...which is always good.

Although I I'm not sure it's a defense mechanism that makes de-conversion so difficult, you have peaked my interest to research the topic.

Thanks for the videos.

[Puchicas9]

I converted as a young adult and deconverted 25 years later. Once the facts finally crystalized in my head, they were so overwhelming that I walked around for weeks feeling like only a shell of a man. The core of my existence had been ripped away. Fortunately, I am highly intellectual, and I devoured new information and built a new worldview. My wife was raised a Christian. I don't even try to deconvert her because I know it would probably destroy her emotionally. We still love each other lots!

[no1saphead]

Good job !

[AntiCitizenX]

I'm not sure how I feel about the concept of a "Defense mechanism." The idea almost sounds too Freudian to me, and has no real scientific underpinning to my knowledge. Can you back it up with any peer-reviewed publication?

[anubis2814]

The concept of cognitive dissonance is a concept that is well peer reviewed. Most people cannot psychologically cope when their reality and their idea of reality are at odds.

[AntiCitizenX]

@anubis2814

Cognitive dissonance is certainly well-researched. I am just not sure you can equate "defense mechanisms" with dissonance. The way you describe it, people would practically commit suicide if not for such defenses. I do not find this compelling. A far better view I feel is that changing beliefs is simply more difficult than forming them, even when there is nothing at stake. Michael Shermer describes this in terms evolutionary biology,where over-belief is better than under.

[anubis2814]

Quite probable, however certain beliefs are their mental constructs for getting through life. Just as some children use Santa Clause or an imaginary friend. As one grows up, they will come up with mental constructs to replace these. God is no different, to drop a belief requires a replacement with another mental construct. To realize that a god no longer exists requires not just one but the majority of some peoples mental constructs something that might cripple a person.

[anubis2814]

I see nothing working against the theory of defense mechanisms, in fact they seem as a fairly integral part of psychology. Is there any information you have against the idea of coping mechanisms?

[AntiCitizenX]

@anubis2814

[I see nothing working against the theory of defense mechanisms]

That's fine, but I don't see anything working FOR defense mechanisms either. You seem to use the word interchangeably with "cognitive dissonance," which I feel is inaccurate. My knowledge of psychology may be limited, but in every experimentally-based text I ever read, the words "defense mechanism" are never used.

[anubis2814]

Look up psychological defense mechanisms on wikipedia. None of the references seem to say anything against their existence, in fact they are quite in favor of them, if you can find any let me know. I do not liken cognitive dissonance to defense mechanisms, they are used in times of series stress and cognitive dissonance is a series stress to many people.

[AuntieDiluvian]

Great! And it's an interesting point about people being less likely to lose their beliefs past 50. I'm so glad I lost mine in my 20s/30s then! My parents are in their 70s/80s and were rabid christians, but are now Deists, despite the fact they still go to church. They don't believe in hell, virgin birth, even the resurrection!  So there is help that older people can get wiser, if not get rid of their faith altogether,

[lc237]

Good job!

[cryFOUReternity]

A very intriguing insight! I never thought of a paradigm shift as a reconstruction of the sum of your memories before.

[seriouslymatsteele]

I love this series. Thanks so much and keep up the great work.