If he could be transported back to the 1840s would Shawn have defended Joseph Smith the Prophet of the Restoration against mobs that came to drag him out of his house ?
@mollymu1 You willfully disregard those "mobs" were pissed because Joseph Smith ordered destroyed their prenting press in Navoo, because the writters were publishing his seducing and sleeping around with the local women. The prenting press was something very hard to replace back then. That mob was full of angry husbands. In those circumstances I would have let the mob have there way. The "mob" was tired of Joseph getting away with hanus crimes. Joseph deserved what he got.
Chiasmus, which was discovered in the Book of Mormon by Jack Welch. I think classic examples include the Alma 41 discussion of the term restoration, or Alma 36 with its Christ-centered Chiasmus focusing on Alma's experience in the depths of despair when he remembers the name of Christ and turns himself over to Christ and is redeemed. These are spectacular instances in ancient writing. They are spectacular examples of chiasmus structures that Joseph Smith knew nothing about.
@scottwins2 Chiamus, it would have to require way more than chaiamus to surmount the enormous credibility issues of both Joe Smith & his bogus, bait Book of Mormon that has absolutely nothing to commend it except what was lifted from the Bible. At most it is an extremely watered down Bible. All else is historical fiction, fabrication, plagiarism & racism.
Did you ever answer the question why maps are commonly located between the covers of the Bible but never appear in Book of Mormon?
@scottwins2 No distinction is made between the person of God the Father & the person of God the Son in Book of Mormon. In fact Jesus is clearly asserted to be BOTH Father AND Son. This is stated most blatantly in Ether 3:14: “I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father AND the Son.” The Son is repeatedly referred to as the “Eternal Father.” (1 Nephi 11:21, 13:40; Mosiah 16:15; Alma 11:37-38).
@scottwins2 And so we read, for instance, “behold the Lamb of God, YEA, EVEN the Eternal Father,” (1 Nephi 11:21), and “the Lamb of God IS the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world.” (1 Nephi 13:40; cf., Mosiah 16:15 and Alma 11:37-38). Jesus is also called the “FATHER of heaven and of earth” (2 Nephi 25:12; Mosiah 3:8, 15:4; Alma 11:39, Helaman 14:12, 16:18; Ether 4:7).
@scottwins2 You quoted Brigham Young, but Brigham Young taught for two & one half decades -- 25 Years! -- that ADAM IS GOD ! ! ! And you claim that he was a true prophet of the living God ? ? ? He is as unworthy of trust as Joseph Smith who teaches in the 1830 edition of Book of Mormon that Jesus IS the Father & that the Father Is the Son, forcing corrections in subsequent editions because he did not get right Who God Is the first time ! ! !
@scottwins2 "They are spectacular examples of chiasmus structures that Joseph Smith knew nothing about."
JS did not necessarily need to know anything about chiasmus if when he sat down to write spirits were channeling through him. There is no record that he ever did repent from his deliberate involvement in the occult.
In Acts 19 we read of those believers involved in the occult who showed forth acts worthy of repentance. Where is Joe?
@scottwins2 Within the next few days, time permitting, I shall exhibit additional instances demonstrating Joe Smith's twistology of theology of the ontology of the Godhead that is rampant modalism/Sabellianism within the1830 edition of Book of Mormon.
David Whitmer Where is important as a witness. He was given many opportunities to step back from his witness, to say, "Well, I might have been mistaken" or "Joseph Smith fooled me" or something like that. He never availed himself of that opportunity. He always stood by his witness. In fact, he did more than stand by it--he insisted on it. He had his testimony of the Book of Mormon placed on his tombstone. That, I think, is striking.
@scottwins2 You need to read what David Whitmer wrote in his book "An Address to All Believers In Christ" about trusting in Joseph Smith as prophet, seer & revelator & also about D&C. He wrote this long after Smith was shot down (literally & physically).
Another book I recommend you closely examine, that LDS cannot whine about being "anti-Mormon," is B.H. Robert's "Studies of the Book of Mormon."
If you behave yourself I shall be pleased to bring excerpts of their writings to this table.
I am a witness of this; and all who will hear the voice of the servants of God, pay attention to what they say and obey the commandments..., shall receive a testimony and know that we tell them the truth, that Joseph is a prophet of God..., sealed his testimony with his blood, and has gone to dwell in the world of spirits." Brigham Young
You would do well to open your ears to Jeremiah & take to heart his words from the Lord:
"The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." Jer. 4:14
and gives us light...so surely do I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God... I saw the plates; I saw the Angel; I heard the voice of God. I know that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God." MARTIN HARRIS Just as surely as the sun is shining on us...
@scottwins2 Although repeatedly asked in these comments you have yet to answer with a clear conscience before God whether you have even one time read the entire Bible from Mat 1:1 to Rev. 22:21.
@scottwins2 Or you will stall longer so as to avoid making the painful profession that you actually have not.... as thou wast otherly, wastily occupied feigning faith with bogus books given unto thy bosom that art a sorry series, the mythology of Smithology & twistology of theology, impish & impudent works of seducing, lying spirits of error & deception, by which thou hast been emmisaried in thine latter-day idolatry to mormonize & bastardize Bible belief, for all who wilt fall away with thee.
@scottwins2 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11
You should see luminously clear that the Bereans were more noble because unlike the Mormons & every other cult that counterfeits Christianity they checked that which was being taught with the Scriptures, to see whether such was so. These were the Covenant Scriptures from which Jesus Himself quoted.
@scottwins2 Another question for you, bright light in the Monson movement of Moroni... to what extent does the church of Joseph Smith believe the New Testament manuscripts that are extant are in agreement with each other or not in agreement with each other?
@scottwins2 "As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason. Delusion becomes a choice." Jim Whitefield, author of Tthe Mormon Delusion series at themormondelusiondotcom
It is not suitable for faithful Mormons who wish to remain in their delusion.
@scottwins2 "Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction -- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope." Thomas A. Edison
If Mormons have more faith in the botchy books of Joe Smith than they do in the Holy Bible, & Mormon minions evidently do, then clearly their faith is foolishly founded upon fiction, fabrication, fables.
If they believe the tall tales that Joseph the Glasslooker told then they are obviously pawns of Joe-foolery with damnable false hope.
@scottwins2 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit that giveth thee a warm, fuzzy, butterfly burning in thy bosom, but try the spirits and trust not in thine own subjective feelings whether they be of God: because many false prophets such as Joe Smith, Tommy Monson, Mary Baker Eddy, Sun Yung Moon, L. Ron Hubbard and hundreds of others are gone out into the world. cf. 1 Jn. 4:1
@scottwins2 "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
There is no need for you to do violence to the Scriptures. This verse in Amos that you twist to serve your own perverted purpose speaks of true prophets. Newsflash: Mormon prophets who do not get right Who God Is are not true prophets.
Like Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris, David Whitmer bore the testimony to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon until the day he died. Book of Mormon critics have not been able to impugn their testimonies but have instead resorted to character assassination. As history demonstrates, however, the honesty, integrity and reliability of these witnesses confound the critics every bit as much as the testimony of the three witnesses confounds those who refuse to accept the revealed word of God
@scottwins2 It is overly much obvious David Whitmer did not bear testimony to the truthfulness of Joseph Smith as prophet, seer & revelator in his "An Address to All Believers in Christ", nor did B.H. Roberts bear testimony to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon in his "Studies of the Book of Mormon." I have read both & would be happy to quote from these writings written long after the Lord took Smith off the earth for leading people to false gods. The penalty in Israel for same was death.
It is recorded in the American Cyclopedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica, that I, David Whitmer, have denied my testimony... of the Book of Mormon: and Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, denied their testimony... I have never at any time denied that testimony or any part thereof. I also testify to the world, that neither Oliver Cowdery nor Martin Harris ever at any time denied their testimony. They both died affirming the truth of the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon
Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 6-8 Thou fool, that shall say: ... we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.... Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea...; and I bring forth my word... yea, even upon all...? Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, ..
@scottwins2 "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." Jer. 4:14
"As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason. Delusion becomes a choice." Jim Whitefield, author of The Mormon Delusion series at themormondelusiondotcom.
It is not suitable for faithful Mormons who wish to remain in their delusion.
"The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." Jer. 4:14
How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
"That Joseph Smith, has shown unto us the plates..., which have the appearance of gold;...we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon,... And this we bear record with words of soberness,... for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken.
CHRISTIAN WHITMER, JACOB WHITMER, PETER WHITMER, JUN., JOHN WHITMER, HIRAM PAGE, JOSEPH SMITH, SEN., HYRUM SMITH, SAMUEL H. SMITH
@scottwins2 Isnt it a fact that nearly every witness to the Book of Mormon and every Elder close to Joseph Smith ended up being excommunicated from the church. Excommunication was created by a man and not sanctioned by God. It is a practise of condemnation. Which is of the devil. Only God can say who is allowed in Heaven and he said all are invited, not just Mormons. Silly people.
@TheSoulamore Not true we can be judged by the saints, 1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
No its not a fact that every elder close to Joseph Smith was excommunicated. Parley P. Pratt was not. John Taylor, nor New K Whitney, Orsen Hydye, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards and others. You forgot to mention O liver Cowdery came back and Martin Harris, now why did they do that?
@scottwins2 People come back because they are treated like villians if they dont believe the same way. They stay in the church just to be with their loved ones. Simple. Elementary. 2 Corinthians 11:4-9 warns all of us of someone coming and starting their own gospel. Teaching something other than what Jesus teaches in the Bible. There is a reason that none of what Joseph Smith did, was foretold in the Bible. Only warned against it.
@TheSoulamore You blew right by that you would be judged by the saints, but you are undetered. I am amszed you place yourself above us Mormons and say you know so much more about our religion that we do. Amazing.
...That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates... And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us;...we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates...an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates...And it is marvelous in our eyes. OLIVER COWDERY, DAVID WHITMER, MARTIN HARRIS
@scottwins Book of Mormon is a bait book to bastardize Bible belief as it leads to the other two bogus books wherein is contained the major doctrines that forever separate the church of Joseph Smith from the Church of Jesus Christ. The baby Book of Mormon, of which 25-30% is plagiarized, has undergone 3,900 plus changes, many of which are major, & that in less than 200 yrs! Many are even changes concerning the ontology of the Godhead. Compare 1830 edition with subsequent editions incl. present!
@scottwins2 What about the versions? It should be overly obvious to you that the Spirit of Scripture is not insisting you use any of those additional editions; therefore, it is also patently plain your retort is baseless & impotent. Your dishonest straw man argument is your paltry attempt to divert attention away from your having to deal with the fabrication, fables, racism, plagiarism & esoteric claptrap of the Mormon books of counterfeit & fraud.
@scottwins2 I challenge you to cite changes book, chapter & verse in any Bible pertaining to the ontology of God. Take your time, fellow... you have stepped in over your head.
I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me;...while people were persecuting me, I said in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God,...For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation. Joseph Smith
"A young lad . . . , Joseph Smith, of incomparable faith, broke the spell, shattered the 'heavens of iron' and reestablished communication. Heaven kissed the earth, light dissipated the darkness, and God again spoke to man, revealing anew 'his secret unto his servants the prophets.' (Amos 3:7.) A new prophet was in the land and through him God set up his kingdom, never to be destroyed nor left to another people—a kingdom that will stand forever. . . .Spencer W. Kimball
How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
@Shulamitefire You sound like a real tool that lives in their mom's basement and spends all of their time online commenting on posts so he has someone to interact with. I bet you are into sci fy video games online too. I bet we'll all see you on that "to catch a predator show" someday. lol
@gillen1966 So where is your influence in the Monson movement of Moroni? I suspect you're jealous of Shawn McCraney. If Joe Smith or Tommy Monson could see you now... Do you think you might catch a wink from either one of them or even both?
And what is the difference between Joe Smith & Warren Jeffs?
@Shulamitefire You sound like you are on drugs or something or perhaps you are emotionally disturbed or on some serious mental medication. Either way, it sounds like your mouth has continued to move long after your mind stopped functioning properly. It's sad really.......
How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
@scottwins2 Spiritual sense says that any who is a true prophet of God gets right Who God Is. It comes with the authority of God and the anointing of His Spirit. A true prophet of the living God does not preach that God was Adam, particularly for decades, as did Brigham Young -- nor does he change his teaching that God Is very radically different ontologically to that which he had taught, especially for the duration of the several years previous, as was so with Joseph Smith.
@Shulamitefire It was written as such of Brigham Young but he never made it doctrine of the Church. True nature of God. How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ....he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
@scottwins2 B.Y. taught for decades that Adam was God & that is well documented in primary LDS source material. J.S. did not who God Is either. Look at the radical differences between who he taught God Is in the 1830 edition of BoM compared to subsequent editions. Also compare BoM ontology with that which he taught leading up to his death.
Wasting your life in deep denial serves you but does not serve the Truth. It is time to take your head out of the church feed bag & grow up in the Truth.
@Shulamitefire i can telll you this you don't understand the difference between the God of the old Testament and the God of the New Testament.
Like Shawn you spin it to fit your needs. It was never church doctrine. I deny nothing of the truth. Amos 3:5 Surely the Lord God revealith nothing except he revealith his secret unto his servants the prophets.
@scottwins Suppose you tell us your personally perceived difference between the changing nature & attributes of the God of the Old & the New Testaments. I have got to hear this ! ! !
If LDS prophets do not get right Who The One True God Is how can they be the one true church?
Jer. 4:14 'The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds."
@scottwins2 Is that the best you can offer... that it was not doctrine? The changing ideas of BY & JS about Who God Is most definitely were TAUGHT! And BoM most certainly is LDS doctrine - or will you try to twist that too?
HAVE YOU actually compared 1830 BoM as to Who God Is compared to the following edition &/or latest BoM edition?
@Shulamitefire What about the Bible? 21st Century King James Version, American Standard Version, Amplified Bible,Common English Bible, Contemporary English Version,Darrby Translation, Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition, English Standard Version, GOD’S WORD Translation,Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard, Bible,King James Version, Lexham English Bible,New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, New International Version 1984,New King James Version, Wycliffe Bible
@Shulamitefire It sure wound't be The New Amercian Standard Version, All these Books are different thats why they wrote them. Ampl;ified Bible? give me a break. Hers are some more and there all the same? Mew Living Translation, Young Living Translation, Youngs Literal Translation, World Wide English, New Century Version, and The Amharic Ebook Bible. And they are all the same? Why do you use The King James Version, two reasons, its inspired and its more accurate.
@scottwins2 Your editions argument is, in absolute actual fact, no argument at all as everyone is free to use the KJV.
You attempt that failed ploy to run from facing charges as to the changes made in the Mormon scriptures as to WHO GOD IS. ✔
※ Question for you: ※ Where are the changes in the text of the KJV pertaining to the ontology of God? I do challenge you to cite book, chapter & verse, fully expecting that you cannot.
@Shulamitefire Try Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: See Tyndale 1525
@Shulamitefire Hebrews 1:1-3 See also Coverdale Bible 1535, Mathew Edition 1537, Cromwell's 1539, The Geneva Bible 1560, The Bishops Bible 1568, Weymouth Bible 1902, Moffat 1913, New Amercian Standard 1971, Knox 1945, Jerusalem 1966, Good News 1966, Living bible 1971 and others. Most different of the Ontology of God.
@scottwins2 "Most different of the Ontology of God." Cite books, chapters, verses instead of only blowing air.
Additionally, you have been told repeatedly that no one need read any edition other than KJV. It is what I read.
I surmise you wish there was one edition of BoM. The present day edition has numerous changes pertaining to the ontology of God as compared to the 1830 edition. Why the changes? Was Joe Smith confused? Did he not know the true God & had to have BoM corrected many places?
@Shulamitefire Sorry no go bub, You said " ※ Question for you: ※ Where are the changes in the text of the KJV pertaining to the ontology of God? I do challenge you to cite book, chapter & verse, fully expecting that you cannot" Yet I did. I see you are interested in winning a debate instead of seeing the truth, pretty much what I figured about you. many of the texts are different yet you give them a free ride. if I were to site Joseph inspired additioopn you would squeal like a pig.
@scottwins2 I am not interested in winning a debate; I am interested in the Truth being told rather than you not addressing the issues by high tailing it well nigh every time you are cornered with a question you are evidently insecure about, then jumping to another thread to divert attention away from it.
I know that you are supernaturally blinded but are you not also lacking skills of reading & comprehension &/or are you plain disingenuous that you cannot admit to the facts set before you?
@Shulamitefire Your the one running from the issue here. You are the one that ask the question. You say there are no differences in the Bible, I showed you there were. You have a preference of whichone to read. Why? because they are different. The Book of Mormon has editorial changes. Some of the changes took place on the first run of the Book so not many of the original are the same either. I am awhere of no doctrinal changes to the Book of Mormon, if you say there are then site them.
@scottwins2 Take your head out of the church feed bag. Being massively mormonized puts you at a very distinct disadvantage as pertains to perception of the Truth.
If you had actually examined the text of the 1830 BoM with today's edition, & had the honesty & fortitude, you would have been man of God to admit to the numerous, blatantly clear changes in Joe Smith's self-contradictory theology of the ontology of the Godhead.
Be a right lad; stay your spirit upon the KJV: I happily do. :-) )
@scottwins2 Quote Tyndale 1525 along side of KJV at Heb. 1:1-3 for all to see. You only quoted KJV. Let us see what you have been hiding. Here is your opportunity....
And was it you I asked whether he could answer with a clear conscience before God that he had read & prayed with the Holy Ghost all the way through the entire Bible from Gen. 1:1 to Rev. 22:21?
I am referring to the Holy Bible you bash & trash in characteristic cult fashion.
@Shulamitefire I have never bashed and trashed the Bible here or anywhere else. don't put words in my mouth. I love this Library of Books and the letters Paul wrote., You said there were no differences between any of the Bibles I mention of the Ontology of God. Yet I show you and you duck and weave. Its your trap not mine. YOu created it yet now you want to ignore it, sorry no deal.
@Shulamitefire See Coverdale's Bible 1535 its differentgod in Tymepastdyuerslyand many wayes, spakeunto ye fathersby propjetshets but in these last dayshe has spoken unto us by hissonne, whom he hath made heryeof all thynges, by who he alsomade the wolrde. Which bygnethe brightness of his glory, and very ymage of his substanceberinge up all theings with the words of his powerhath in his owne personne pourged our synnes and is set on the right hand of the majestie on hye;
@scottwins2 Is that the best you can do? You are going to leave it at only that.
Tomorrow, time permitting, I shall show several of Jojo's self- contradictions in 1830 edition concerning Who God Is that you refuse to own up to & several of Jojo's equally ridiculous self-contradictions between BoM & D&C. Stay tuned. :-)
Interesting that Coverdale in the 1500s used 16th century English as so he should have & that Smitty by contrast in the 1800s used 16th century English as he should not have.
@Shulamitefire Oops you forget to address the differences in all these Bibles first. for years modern Bible thumpers, evangelicals have declared the Bible is perfect yet that tune has change sinced the Bible has too changed and been shown. Which is not a book by the way.
@scottwins2 Massively mormonized you read through the lens of those before you afflicted with severe cases of mormonosis.
The Bible is that Standard by which God means all other writings are to be judged & that includes the bogus books of the Joe-foolery you insist upon by playing by.
BoM, D&C, PoGP fail the Biblical test miserably. Of course, mormontons do not see that through the Mormon Mirage.
This guy has got to be kidding. Why would any leader of any significant religious organization consent to be interviewed by this youtube no body. This guy has no real intentions to conduct an honest interview and any with any sense at all, regardless of their religious affiliation would want to elevate this wanna be TV preacher, with their presence. Get a real show with a real audience and an objective point of view and maybe someone noteworthy will consider it.
@gillen You sound like an anti-Christ Mormon pissed off that this fellow has far more influence than you have for the Monson movement of Moroni. And what then is your influence?
@Shulamitefire You sound like a real tool that lives in their mom's basement and spends all of their time online commenting on posts so he has someone to interact with. I bet you are into sci fy video games online too. I bet we'll all see you on that "to catch a predator show" someday. lol
@gillen1966 Awesome comment . Yes this clown is just trying to boost his cred cause he has none . Needs to start by getting rid of the Wizard of Oz on acid backdrop .
@TheSoulamore I can refute SHAWN's arguments, just like I can refute your nonsense.
Just keep your anti-mormon nosense out of public, and learn something useful, like science or the Theory of Evolution. Shawn is not going to teach people how to be rational
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself about the fruit you see from us.
@mollymu1 If you want to know the truth don't go to the deceived. If you want to know Who God Is don't go to those whom the Father of lies is using to deceive. If you want to see fruit you don't have to go to the LDS church or any of its splinter groups, you can go to any number of huge secular humanist organizations who don't care anything about God, & see all the good they are doing.
There is fruit & there is fruit that does not remain. Following after false gods as LDS is not eternal fruit.
@Shulamitefire Fruits have been growing for over 150 years . Thank that is safe . And other groups do good but they aren't offering to show you the path back to Our Heavenly Father .
@jlc19702 Oh I do like him . Just don't like what he does . It makes him seem like a clown . But thanks to his efforts people join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints cause they realize nothing could be this outragous .
seria bueno que thomas se vea cara a cara con el animador de ese programa y le saque a luz la mentira de su secta, saludos al dueño de este canal, muy bueno y completo, bye
There are to many people trying to get a hold on the leaders. They dont have time to talk to 50000 people or how many it was trying to get a hold of them. So why he wast his time on this dummb show. I said dummb because any real LDS member, knows this guy dont have a clue what he's talking about.
@Ingle92protege That's exactly why he wouldn't go on the show...he knows that Shawn would drag him down the road of truth, If he was asked questions that he didn't know the answer to then the whole "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" idea goes out the window...
Rad! Bad Religion shirt! I actually used to listen to that punk rock group! I think Shawn was just wearing this shirt that day to make a statement and to maybe get a little rise out of others to see what they'd say. LOL!
Dude, get over yourself. You guys seem obsessed with negativity and are fixated on the church. Why don't you go and get a life maybe? Seriously, there is a wide big world out there to explore. GET A LIFE! ! ! ! All of your hate and put downs are not going to effect the church in the least... NO ONE CARES about your negative, pathetic, childish rants...
If a serial rapist fled prosecution, moved across the nation and got a job, married a sweet girl and was a model citizen...would he still be a serial rapist?
The LDS church should be left alone. It has a shady foundation, a dastardly past and skeletons galore in the archives. But it knows how to build great and spacious buildings, and how to romance the media.
The new Mall will reveal the inspiration from on high. Visitors will be eagerly anticipating a clean place to come and panhandle.
@PennnSmith Yes....he would still be a seriel rapist. His victims would want him held accountable, and it would be the responsibility of the social institution upholding the law to prosecute.
Ask yourself something, how much good has the LDS church done for the world. After you have spent your month counting i want YOU to count the number of wrongs the LDS "Church" has done. Now that you spent ten seconds saying, "uhh... i don't know?" ask yourself what kind of person u are trying to destroy a church that teaches people to live good lifes and help others always. You can't judge a church by the actions of it's followers, but by it's teachings and leaders.
Nope--ask any non-Mormon who knows the doctrine . . . the eternal hell that Nephi described is not the ephemeral hell that is described in D&C 76 as being where you go before going to the telestial kingdom, which is so awesome, according to 76:89 that it defies all description.
So the hell that they would dwell in eternally, as Nephi described is the same one that nearly everybody (except for the sons of perdition) would be redeemed from after Christ's millennial work was finished?
Although I already know your poor excuse--please enlighten the non-members who may be watching . . .
Final State will change depending upon context. it could refer to the final state after some procedure here on earth (like the final state after plastic surgery) or it could be death or it could be the spirit world or it could be something later.
But my feelings about what that term mean is a different issue. Weren't we talking about Nephi 28 and D&C 76?
Read it--1 Nephi 15; the final state of the souls of bad men after judgement is to go dwell with the devil in hell . . . I am sure that the devil isn't in the telestial kingdom.
You asserted that it didn't say that they would dwell there eternally; 1 Nephi 15 says that hell is their final state after the resurrection . . . I'm citing scripture and you are just trying straw-men without reading any of it.
You are becoming confused. Let's revisit ... The original question was 2 Nephi 28 and D&C 76 described the same situation.
If you have decided that discussion is over and now want to go to I Nephi 15, say so. But first lets be clear on whether you have abandoned that last discussion.
2. Actually, if you actually sit down thru ACTUAL history, not church history or Anti-mormon history that is. ACTUAL UNBIASED history. You will find that he did not rob and steal all that money.
3. Mormons believe outer darkness is for the "evil" human beings. They have three kingdoms of "glory". The highest kingdom being the best one, and the others, not as good but still a little better than "outer darkness" or "hell". You're welcome to look up everything i've said. Non-mormon here.
1. The Mormons themselves have books called "Church History Vol. 1-(a great deal of them)" Which list every single event in the past of mormonism. It so accurate that even anti-mormons use it to "disprove" the religion, they also have many other works. The kids aren't told because, either way, their kids they would still buy it, you could tell 'em JS could use a flying broom stick, they would buy it no problem.
Did not Gordon B Hinckley say that the Mormon Jesus is different from the Jesus of the Bible. What Jesus do you follow? This came from church news, week ending june 20 pg 7. All you Mormons should Read 2 corinthians 11. Did you Mormons follow or here about your 2 prophet Brigham young organizing a lench mob to massacre innocent Christian settler. Sept 11 1857. Boy you Mormons are great people.
WOW. PLEASE GROW UP. I'm just a kid and I can see how immature you're being. Research before you criticize. Check the context of those articles before you make false assumptions... it's amusing (not really) to see how committed people are to prove this church wrong. As far as I've see, they aren't on other religions websites posting comments like this. Again, grow up. Get a life
Oh, don't worry. jehova witnesses get it, Baptists get it, Catholics get it. All religions get it. For some reason people do the opposite of what is taught in their "Gospels". Instead of loving one another and helping, being respectful and all that. They anger againts each other and fight over it and all that. It's funny how many call themselves christians but so few actually are. That includes members of all religions, LDS, southern baptists, jews and so on.
He did say that but followed it with, "We Believe in The Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the greatest figure of time and eternity. Believe that His matchless life reached back before the world was formed. Believe that He was Jehovah of the OT that He was the Messiah of the NT. He died, was resurrected, He visited the western continents, taught the people here. He ushered in this final gospel dispensation, and He lives, the living Son of the living God, Savior and Redeemer.
As to the "Mountain Meadows" Massacre. If you actually do your historical research, Brigham Young was not involved with the massacre. The people that did it were LDS, yes. But they were clearly nutjobs. Much like back in the crusades. So here you have a "modern" massacre which was done without consent for their leader, and then you have the crusades, which was done with the full authorization of the catholic church. This is coming from a non-mormon by the way.
Actually genius it was a mormon woman who insisted on the phone that he invite Tommy Monson on the show a few weeks before that show. To prove a point that the mormon leader had no interest on being on the show, he made the call and the above video is the result of that.
If anything it just goes to show the naiveness and stupidity of the typical mormon mindset. I guess you could say Shawn was just humoring this poor mormon woman and her silly request.
@sanjayarulz The stupidity of the typical mormon mindset.........hmmmm.........if you only knew that Thomas S. Monson travels and travels his entire life, would you understand his schedule. HE DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO WASTE WITH YAHOOS SUCH AS SHAWN. He hates the church, let him! We will always let him back, but no. He's too stubborn and hard headed. Blame him you moron you. He's the one that caused this tension!
1. The Mormons themselves have books called "Church History Vol. 1-(a great deal of them)" Which list every single event in the past of mormonism. It so accurate that even anti-mormons use it to "disprove" the religion, they also have many other works. The kids aren't told because, either way, their kids they would still buy it, you could tell 'em JS could use a flying broom stick, they would buy it no problem.
The discussion below is absurd. I don't need to be a duck to know that a duck has feathers, webbed feat & bill w/ which he quacks. The notion that you must be a thing in order understand or accurately describe a thing is grossly fallacious.
This would be my question: Do any of really believe your own official theology?
Consider how the Mormons changed their whole theology on race. This was all supposedly devinely revealed TRUTH. How can God's (or rather their god's) supposedly eternal truth just change over night? Not that I approve of the old racism. It is just impossilble that these men could have been true prophets of God & been so wrong on something like this.
Why do they hide their teaching if they really believe them?
Shawn is great. Keep it up Shawn!
jlc19702 5 months ago
If he could be transported back to the 1840s would Shawn have defended Joseph Smith the Prophet of the Restoration against mobs that came to drag him out of his house ?
mollymu1 5 months ago
@mollymu1 You willfully disregard those "mobs" were pissed because Joseph Smith ordered destroyed their prenting press in Navoo, because the writters were publishing his seducing and sleeping around with the local women. The prenting press was something very hard to replace back then. That mob was full of angry husbands. In those circumstances I would have let the mob have there way. The "mob" was tired of Joseph getting away with hanus crimes. Joseph deserved what he got.
RedSun875 4 months ago
Chiasmus, which was discovered in the Book of Mormon by Jack Welch. I think classic examples include the Alma 41 discussion of the term restoration, or Alma 36 with its Christ-centered Chiasmus focusing on Alma's experience in the depths of despair when he remembers the name of Christ and turns himself over to Christ and is redeemed. These are spectacular instances in ancient writing. They are spectacular examples of chiasmus structures that Joseph Smith knew nothing about.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Chiamus, it would have to require way more than chaiamus to surmount the enormous credibility issues of both Joe Smith & his bogus, bait Book of Mormon that has absolutely nothing to commend it except what was lifted from the Bible. At most it is an extremely watered down Bible. All else is historical fiction, fabrication, plagiarism & racism.
Did you ever answer the question why maps are commonly located between the covers of the Bible but never appear in Book of Mormon?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire When were those maps added . Where they there in 300 ad . no they were added later .
mollymu1 5 months ago
@scottwins2 No distinction is made between the person of God the Father & the person of God the Son in Book of Mormon. In fact Jesus is clearly asserted to be BOTH Father AND Son. This is stated most blatantly in Ether 3:14: “I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father AND the Son.” The Son is repeatedly referred to as the “Eternal Father.” (1 Nephi 11:21, 13:40; Mosiah 16:15; Alma 11:37-38).
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 And so we read, for instance, “behold the Lamb of God, YEA, EVEN the Eternal Father,” (1 Nephi 11:21), and “the Lamb of God IS the Eternal Father and the Saviour of the world.” (1 Nephi 13:40; cf., Mosiah 16:15 and Alma 11:37-38). Jesus is also called the “FATHER of heaven and of earth” (2 Nephi 25:12; Mosiah 3:8, 15:4; Alma 11:39, Helaman 14:12, 16:18; Ether 4:7).
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 You quoted Brigham Young, but Brigham Young taught for two & one half decades -- 25 Years! -- that ADAM IS GOD ! ! ! And you claim that he was a true prophet of the living God ? ? ? He is as unworthy of trust as Joseph Smith who teaches in the 1830 edition of Book of Mormon that Jesus IS the Father & that the Father Is the Son, forcing corrections in subsequent editions because he did not get right Who God Is the first time ! ! !
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
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@scottwins2 "They are spectacular examples of chiasmus structures that Joseph Smith knew nothing about."
JS did not necessarily need to know anything about chiasmus if when he sat down to write spirits were channeling through him. There is no record that he ever did repent from his deliberate involvement in the occult.
In Acts 19 we read of those believers involved in the occult who showed forth acts worthy of repentance. Where is Joe?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Within the next few days, time permitting, I shall exhibit additional instances demonstrating Joe Smith's twistology of theology of the ontology of the Godhead that is rampant modalism/Sabellianism within the1830 edition of Book of Mormon.
Take care of yourself.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Don't bother.
scottwins2 5 months ago
David Whitmer Where is important as a witness. He was given many opportunities to step back from his witness, to say, "Well, I might have been mistaken" or "Joseph Smith fooled me" or something like that. He never availed himself of that opportunity. He always stood by his witness. In fact, he did more than stand by it--he insisted on it. He had his testimony of the Book of Mormon placed on his tombstone. That, I think, is striking.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 You need to read what David Whitmer wrote in his book "An Address to All Believers In Christ" about trusting in Joseph Smith as prophet, seer & revelator & also about D&C. He wrote this long after Smith was shot down (literally & physically).
Another book I recommend you closely examine, that LDS cannot whine about being "anti-Mormon," is B.H. Robert's "Studies of the Book of Mormon."
If you behave yourself I shall be pleased to bring excerpts of their writings to this table.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
I am a witness of this; and all who will hear the voice of the servants of God, pay attention to what they say and obey the commandments..., shall receive a testimony and know that we tell them the truth, that Joseph is a prophet of God..., sealed his testimony with his blood, and has gone to dwell in the world of spirits." Brigham Young
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2
You would do well to open your ears to Jeremiah & take to heart his words from the Lord:
"The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." Jer. 4:14
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
and gives us light...so surely do I know that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God... I saw the plates; I saw the Angel; I heard the voice of God. I know that the Book of Mormon is true and that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God." MARTIN HARRIS Just as surely as the sun is shining on us...
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Although repeatedly asked in these comments you have yet to answer with a clear conscience before God whether you have even one time read the entire Bible from Mat 1:1 to Rev. 22:21.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Or you will stall longer so as to avoid making the painful profession that you actually have not.... as thou wast otherly, wastily occupied feigning faith with bogus books given unto thy bosom that art a sorry series, the mythology of Smithology & twistology of theology, impish & impudent works of seducing, lying spirits of error & deception, by which thou hast been emmisaried in thine latter-day idolatry to mormonize & bastardize Bible belief, for all who wilt fall away with thee.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Acts 17:11
You should see luminously clear that the Bereans were more noble because unlike the Mormons & every other cult that counterfeits Christianity they checked that which was being taught with the Scriptures, to see whether such was so. These were the Covenant Scriptures from which Jesus Himself quoted.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Another question for you, bright light in the Monson movement of Moroni... to what extent does the church of Joseph Smith believe the New Testament manuscripts that are extant are in agreement with each other or not in agreement with each other?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 "As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason. Delusion becomes a choice." Jim Whitefield, author of Tthe Mormon Delusion series at themormondelusiondotcom
It is not suitable for faithful Mormons who wish to remain in their delusion.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 "Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction -- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope." Thomas A. Edison
If Mormons have more faith in the botchy books of Joe Smith than they do in the Holy Bible, & Mormon minions evidently do, then clearly their faith is foolishly founded upon fiction, fabrication, fables.
If they believe the tall tales that Joseph the Glasslooker told then they are obviously pawns of Joe-foolery with damnable false hope.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit that giveth thee a warm, fuzzy, butterfly burning in thy bosom, but try the spirits and trust not in thine own subjective feelings whether they be of God: because many false prophets such as Joe Smith, Tommy Monson, Mary Baker Eddy, Sun Yung Moon, L. Ron Hubbard and hundreds of others are gone out into the world. cf. 1 Jn. 4:1
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Amos 3:7
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
scottwins2 5 months ago
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@scottwins2 "Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."
There is no need for you to do violence to the Scriptures. This verse in Amos that you twist to serve your own perverted purpose speaks of true prophets. Newsflash: Mormon prophets who do not get right Who God Is are not true prophets.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
Like Oliver Cowdery, and Martin Harris, David Whitmer bore the testimony to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon until the day he died. Book of Mormon critics have not been able to impugn their testimonies but have instead resorted to character assassination. As history demonstrates, however, the honesty, integrity and reliability of these witnesses confound the critics every bit as much as the testimony of the three witnesses confounds those who refuse to accept the revealed word of God
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 It is overly much obvious David Whitmer did not bear testimony to the truthfulness of Joseph Smith as prophet, seer & revelator in his "An Address to All Believers in Christ", nor did B.H. Roberts bear testimony to the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon in his "Studies of the Book of Mormon." I have read both & would be happy to quote from these writings written long after the Lord took Smith off the earth for leading people to false gods. The penalty in Israel for same was death.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
It is recorded in the American Cyclopedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica, that I, David Whitmer, have denied my testimony... of the Book of Mormon: and Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, denied their testimony... I have never at any time denied that testimony or any part thereof. I also testify to the world, that neither Oliver Cowdery nor Martin Harris ever at any time denied their testimony. They both died affirming the truth of the divine authenticity of the Book of Mormon
scottwins2 5 months ago
Book of Mormon 2 Nephi 6-8 Thou fool, that shall say: ... we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.... Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea...; and I bring forth my word... yea, even upon all...? Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, ..
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 "The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." Jer. 4:14
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
these bookks are differnet there meanings cme up different and you hate Momons for any correction at all/ You have a dual standard here.
scottwins2 5 months ago
"As long as people want the Mormon Church to be true, more than they are willing to face the possibility that it is not, they will not entertain evidence or reason. Delusion becomes a choice." Jim Whitefield, author of The Mormon Delusion series at themormondelusiondotcom.
It is not suitable for faithful Mormons who wish to remain in their delusion.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
Faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction -- faith in fiction is a damnable false hope. Thomas A. Edison
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
"The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds." Jer. 4:14
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
That is Jesus you are saying that too. I speak for Jesus. Silly Mormon.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
scottwins2 5 months ago
"That Joseph Smith, has shown unto us the plates..., which have the appearance of gold;...we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon,... And this we bear record with words of soberness,... for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken.
CHRISTIAN WHITMER, JACOB WHITMER, PETER WHITMER, JUN., JOHN WHITMER, HIRAM PAGE, JOSEPH SMITH, SEN., HYRUM SMITH, SAMUEL H. SMITH
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Isnt it a fact that nearly every witness to the Book of Mormon and every Elder close to Joseph Smith ended up being excommunicated from the church. Excommunication was created by a man and not sanctioned by God. It is a practise of condemnation. Which is of the devil. Only God can say who is allowed in Heaven and he said all are invited, not just Mormons. Silly people.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore Not true we can be judged by the saints, 1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
No its not a fact that every elder close to Joseph Smith was excommunicated. Parley P. Pratt was not. John Taylor, nor New K Whitney, Orsen Hydye, Orson Pratt, Willard Richards and others. You forgot to mention O liver Cowdery came back and Martin Harris, now why did they do that?
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 People come back because they are treated like villians if they dont believe the same way. They stay in the church just to be with their loved ones. Simple. Elementary. 2 Corinthians 11:4-9 warns all of us of someone coming and starting their own gospel. Teaching something other than what Jesus teaches in the Bible. There is a reason that none of what Joseph Smith did, was foretold in the Bible. Only warned against it.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore You blew right by that you would be judged by the saints, but you are undetered. I am amszed you place yourself above us Mormons and say you know so much more about our religion that we do. Amazing.
scottwins2 5 months ago
...That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates... And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us;...we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates...an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates...And it is marvelous in our eyes. OLIVER COWDERY, DAVID WHITMER, MARTIN HARRIS
scottwins2 5 months ago
THERE ARE MORE BIBLES, BUT EACH OF THE ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE OTHER. CHANGE, CHANGE, CHANGE. LETS JUDGE THE BOOK OF MORMON BY A DIFFERENT STANDARD.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins Book of Mormon is a bait book to bastardize Bible belief as it leads to the other two bogus books wherein is contained the major doctrines that forever separate the church of Joseph Smith from the Church of Jesus Christ. The baby Book of Mormon, of which 25-30% is plagiarized, has undergone 3,900 plus changes, many of which are major, & that in less than 200 yrs! Many are even changes concerning the ontology of the Godhead. Compare 1830 edition with subsequent editions incl. present!
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Every book you read including all the Versions of the Bible undergo editorial changes even after they have gone to press.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Your use of all caps is juvenile, but if they make you feel better go ahead...
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Nothing to say? How many changes are there to the Bible?
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 What about the versions? It should be overly obvious to you that the Spirit of Scripture is not insisting you use any of those additional editions; therefore, it is also patently plain your retort is baseless & impotent. Your dishonest straw man argument is your paltry attempt to divert attention away from your having to deal with the fabrication, fables, racism, plagiarism & esoteric claptrap of the Mormon books of counterfeit & fraud.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 I challenge you to cite changes book, chapter & verse in any Bible pertaining to the ontology of God. Take your time, fellow... you have stepped in over your head.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
Soulamore needs to make one of those videos like the guy did for Britteny Spears '' Leave Shawn Alone ''
mollymu1 5 months ago
@mollymu1 TheSoulamore is afraid that I prove his anti-mormon nonsense wrong again.
Don't listen to that guy.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
I haven't been a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints all my life .
mollymu1 5 months ago
I had actually seen a light, and in the midst of that light I saw two Personages, and they did in reality speak to me;...while people were persecuting me, I said in my heart: Why persecute me for telling the truth? I have actually seen a vision; and who am I that I can withstand God,...For I had seen a vision; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation. Joseph Smith
scottwins2 5 months ago
"A young lad . . . , Joseph Smith, of incomparable faith, broke the spell, shattered the 'heavens of iron' and reestablished communication. Heaven kissed the earth, light dissipated the darkness, and God again spoke to man, revealing anew 'his secret unto his servants the prophets.' (Amos 3:7.) A new prophet was in the land and through him God set up his kingdom, never to be destroyed nor left to another people—a kingdom that will stand forever. . . .Spencer W. Kimball
scottwins2 5 months ago
How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
scottwins2 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire You sound like a real tool that lives in their mom's basement and spends all of their time online commenting on posts so he has someone to interact with. I bet you are into sci fy video games online too. I bet we'll all see you on that "to catch a predator show" someday. lol
gillen1966 5 months ago
@gillen1966 So where is your influence in the Monson movement of Moroni? I suspect you're jealous of Shawn McCraney. If Joe Smith or Tommy Monson could see you now... Do you think you might catch a wink from either one of them or even both?
And what is the difference between Joe Smith & Warren Jeffs?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire You sound like you are on drugs or something or perhaps you are emotionally disturbed or on some serious mental medication. Either way, it sounds like your mouth has continued to move long after your mind stopped functioning properly. It's sad really.......
gillen1966 5 months ago
How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. During the short time of his great vision he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
scottwins2 6 months ago
@scottwins2 Spiritual sense says that any who is a true prophet of God gets right Who God Is. It comes with the authority of God and the anointing of His Spirit. A true prophet of the living God does not preach that God was Adam, particularly for decades, as did Brigham Young -- nor does he change his teaching that God Is very radically different ontologically to that which he had taught, especially for the duration of the several years previous, as was so with Joseph Smith.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire It was written as such of Brigham Young but he never made it doctrine of the Church. True nature of God. How great indeed is our debt to [Joseph Smith]... It was he who brought us a true knowledge of God the Eternal Father and His Risen Son, the Lord Jesus Christ....he learned more concerning the nature of Deity than all of those who through centuries had argued that matter in learned councils and scholarly forums. Gordaon B. Hinkley
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 B.Y. taught for decades that Adam was God & that is well documented in primary LDS source material. J.S. did not who God Is either. Look at the radical differences between who he taught God Is in the 1830 edition of BoM compared to subsequent editions. Also compare BoM ontology with that which he taught leading up to his death.
Wasting your life in deep denial serves you but does not serve the Truth. It is time to take your head out of the church feed bag & grow up in the Truth.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire i can telll you this you don't understand the difference between the God of the old Testament and the God of the New Testament.
Like Shawn you spin it to fit your needs. It was never church doctrine. I deny nothing of the truth. Amos 3:5 Surely the Lord God revealith nothing except he revealith his secret unto his servants the prophets.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins Suppose you tell us your personally perceived difference between the changing nature & attributes of the God of the Old & the New Testaments. I have got to hear this ! ! !
If LDS prophets do not get right Who The One True God Is how can they be the one true church?
Jer. 4:14 'The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds."
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Is that the best you can offer... that it was not doctrine? The changing ideas of BY & JS about Who God Is most definitely were TAUGHT! And BoM most certainly is LDS doctrine - or will you try to twist that too?
HAVE YOU actually compared 1830 BoM as to Who God Is compared to the following edition &/or latest BoM edition?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire What about the Bible? 21st Century King James Version, American Standard Version, Amplified Bible,Common English Bible, Contemporary English Version,Darrby Translation, Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition, English Standard Version, GOD’S WORD Translation,Good News Translation, Holman Christian Standard, Bible,King James Version, Lexham English Bible,New American Standard Bible, New Century Version, New International Version 1984,New King James Version, Wycliffe Bible
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 What about them? My version of choice is the KJV.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire It sure wound't be The New Amercian Standard Version, All these Books are different thats why they wrote them. Ampl;ified Bible? give me a break. Hers are some more and there all the same? Mew Living Translation, Young Living Translation, Youngs Literal Translation, World Wide English, New Century Version, and The Amharic Ebook Bible. And they are all the same? Why do you use The King James Version, two reasons, its inspired and its more accurate.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Your editions argument is, in absolute actual fact, no argument at all as everyone is free to use the KJV.
You attempt that failed ploy to run from facing charges as to the changes made in the Mormon scriptures as to WHO GOD IS. ✔
※ Question for you: ※ Where are the changes in the text of the KJV pertaining to the ontology of God? I do challenge you to cite book, chapter & verse, fully expecting that you cannot.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Try Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: See Tyndale 1525
scottwins2 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Hebrews 1:1-3 See also Coverdale Bible 1535, Mathew Edition 1537, Cromwell's 1539, The Geneva Bible 1560, The Bishops Bible 1568, Weymouth Bible 1902, Moffat 1913, New Amercian Standard 1971, Knox 1945, Jerusalem 1966, Good News 1966, Living bible 1971 and others. Most different of the Ontology of God.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 "Most different of the Ontology of God." Cite books, chapters, verses instead of only blowing air.
Additionally, you have been told repeatedly that no one need read any edition other than KJV. It is what I read.
I surmise you wish there was one edition of BoM. The present day edition has numerous changes pertaining to the ontology of God as compared to the 1830 edition. Why the changes? Was Joe Smith confused? Did he not know the true God & had to have BoM corrected many places?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Sorry no go bub, You said " ※ Question for you: ※ Where are the changes in the text of the KJV pertaining to the ontology of God? I do challenge you to cite book, chapter & verse, fully expecting that you cannot" Yet I did. I see you are interested in winning a debate instead of seeing the truth, pretty much what I figured about you. many of the texts are different yet you give them a free ride. if I were to site Joseph inspired additioopn you would squeal like a pig.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 I am not interested in winning a debate; I am interested in the Truth being told rather than you not addressing the issues by high tailing it well nigh every time you are cornered with a question you are evidently insecure about, then jumping to another thread to divert attention away from it.
I know that you are supernaturally blinded but are you not also lacking skills of reading & comprehension &/or are you plain disingenuous that you cannot admit to the facts set before you?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Your the one running from the issue here. You are the one that ask the question. You say there are no differences in the Bible, I showed you there were. You have a preference of whichone to read. Why? because they are different. The Book of Mormon has editorial changes. Some of the changes took place on the first run of the Book so not many of the original are the same either. I am awhere of no doctrinal changes to the Book of Mormon, if you say there are then site them.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Take your head out of the church feed bag. Being massively mormonized puts you at a very distinct disadvantage as pertains to perception of the Truth.
If you had actually examined the text of the 1830 BoM with today's edition, & had the honesty & fortitude, you would have been man of God to admit to the numerous, blatantly clear changes in Joe Smith's self-contradictory theology of the ontology of the Godhead.
Be a right lad; stay your spirit upon the KJV: I happily do. :-) )
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Quote Tyndale 1525 along side of KJV at Heb. 1:1-3 for all to see. You only quoted KJV. Let us see what you have been hiding. Here is your opportunity....
And was it you I asked whether he could answer with a clear conscience before God that he had read & prayed with the Holy Ghost all the way through the entire Bible from Gen. 1:1 to Rev. 22:21?
I am referring to the Holy Bible you bash & trash in characteristic cult fashion.
No non LDS scholar takes the sham JST seriously.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire I have never bashed and trashed the Bible here or anywhere else. don't put words in my mouth. I love this Library of Books and the letters Paul wrote., You said there were no differences between any of the Bibles I mention of the Ontology of God. Yet I show you and you duck and weave. Its your trap not mine. YOu created it yet now you want to ignore it, sorry no deal.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire See Coverdale's Bible 1535 its differentgod in Tymepastdyuerslyand many wayes, spakeunto ye fathersby propjetshets but in these last dayshe has spoken unto us by hissonne, whom he hath made heryeof all thynges, by who he alsomade the wolrde. Which bygnethe brightness of his glory, and very ymage of his substanceberinge up all theings with the words of his powerhath in his owne personne pourged our synnes and is set on the right hand of the majestie on hye;
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Is that the best you can do? You are going to leave it at only that.
Tomorrow, time permitting, I shall show several of Jojo's self- contradictions in 1830 edition concerning Who God Is that you refuse to own up to & several of Jojo's equally ridiculous self-contradictions between BoM & D&C. Stay tuned. :-)
Interesting that Coverdale in the 1500s used 16th century English as so he should have & that Smitty by contrast in the 1800s used 16th century English as he should not have.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Oops you forget to address the differences in all these Bibles first. for years modern Bible thumpers, evangelicals have declared the Bible is perfect yet that tune has change sinced the Bible has too changed and been shown. Which is not a book by the way.
scottwins2 5 months ago
@scottwins2 Massively mormonized you read through the lens of those before you afflicted with severe cases of mormonosis.
The Bible is that Standard by which God means all other writings are to be judged & that includes the bogus books of the Joe-foolery you insist upon by playing by.
BoM, D&C, PoGP fail the Biblical test miserably. Of course, mormontons do not see that through the Mormon Mirage.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire why? because its different.
scottwins2 5 months ago
I could easily see Shawn winning the Bibical arguments easily agaist Monson. So much for the prophets.
jlc19702 6 months ago
This guy has got to be kidding. Why would any leader of any significant religious organization consent to be interviewed by this youtube no body. This guy has no real intentions to conduct an honest interview and any with any sense at all, regardless of their religious affiliation would want to elevate this wanna be TV preacher, with their presence. Get a real show with a real audience and an objective point of view and maybe someone noteworthy will consider it.
gillen1966 6 months ago
@gillen You sound like an anti-Christ Mormon pissed off that this fellow has far more influence than you have for the Monson movement of Moroni. And what then is your influence?
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
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@Shulamitefire You sound like a real tool that lives in their mom's basement and spends all of their time online commenting on posts so he has someone to interact with. I bet you are into sci fy video games online too. I bet we'll all see you on that "to catch a predator show" someday. lol
gillen1966 5 months ago
@gillen1966 Awesome comment . Yes this clown is just trying to boost his cred cause he has none . Needs to start by getting rid of the Wizard of Oz on acid backdrop .
mollymu1 5 months ago
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TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@mollymu1 Stop bashing Shawn because he doesnt believe what you believe. You are only repeating what other Mormons have said to you all your life.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore Shawn is a clown that does this for money .
mollymu1 5 months ago
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TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@TheSoulamore I can refute SHAWN's arguments, just like I can refute your nonsense.
Just keep your anti-mormon nosense out of public, and learn something useful, like science or the Theory of Evolution. Shawn is not going to teach people how to be rational
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
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@TheSkepticChristian You are wrong and you do not teach the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
TheSoulamore 5 months ago
@USAConservative2012 Shawn doesn't need Monson he does very well making himself look like a propagandas.
scottwins2 7 months ago
IF you are looking into the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints be sure to ask a active member not a non member or someone who is having problems at this time in their lives . If you want to know about the Baptist Church go to their site . If you want to learn about us ask us. And ask yourself about the fruit you see from us.
mollymu1 10 months ago
@mollymu1 Hmmm beings that LDS stands for lucifers demonic servants, why the hell do you mormons want anyone to ask a liar for the truth?
Whyzitsotough 8 months ago
@Whyzitsotough "why the hell do you mormons want anyone to ask a liar "
This is the spirit of contention. You belong to Evil.
dorisfenella 7 months ago
@mollymu1 If you want to know the truth don't go to the deceived. If you want to know Who God Is don't go to those whom the Father of lies is using to deceive. If you want to see fruit you don't have to go to the LDS church or any of its splinter groups, you can go to any number of huge secular humanist organizations who don't care anything about God, & see all the good they are doing.
There is fruit & there is fruit that does not remain. Following after false gods as LDS is not eternal fruit.
Shulamitefire 5 months ago
@Shulamitefire Fruits have been growing for over 150 years . Thank that is safe . And other groups do good but they aren't offering to show you the path back to Our Heavenly Father .
mollymu1 5 months ago
Shawn would have Monson for breakfast! Monson does not have a chance against the Lord's servant.
jlc19702 10 months ago
@jlc19702 That's a new one .
mollymu1 10 months ago
@jlc19702 Shawn is a clown that's trying to elavate himself into something, anything more than what he actually is.
gillen1966 5 months ago
@jlc19702 Most basic Elders would be more than a match for this clown
mollymu1 5 months ago
@mollymu1 Yes your right. Shawn would win this one.
jlc19702 5 months ago
@jlc19702 What's that , a clown contest .?
mollymu1 5 months ago
@mollymu1 Shawn is great. I'm glad you like him too;)
jlc19702 5 months ago
@jlc19702 Oh I do like him . Just don't like what he does . It makes him seem like a clown . But thanks to his efforts people join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints cause they realize nothing could be this outragous .
mollymu1 5 months ago
How does he bible bash lol he talks from the bible
bobbyraejohnson 10 months ago
All you want to do is bible bash. That's not very christ like
clintonrossodell 10 months ago
TSM would not dare sit in with Shawn.
No Mormon coward would.
Mormons are into three things:
Money, control, positive publicity.
Without a guarantee of all three no Mormon official dares to set foot in any venue.
Look what happened when Hinckley went on Larry King.
"Uh, I don't know about that..."
Monson is led by God and I'm the Queen of Sheba.
thesignsoflife7 11 months ago
Monson would get owned by Shawn.
jlc19701 11 months ago
seria bueno que thomas se vea cara a cara con el animador de ese programa y le saque a luz la mentira de su secta, saludos al dueño de este canal, muy bueno y completo, bye
daemo28 1 year ago
There are to many people trying to get a hold on the leaders. They dont have time to talk to 50000 people or how many it was trying to get a hold of them. So why he wast his time on this dummb show. I said dummb because any real LDS member, knows this guy dont have a clue what he's talking about.
chrstilen5 1 year ago
@Ingle92protege That's exactly why he wouldn't go on the show...he knows that Shawn would drag him down the road of truth, If he was asked questions that he didn't know the answer to then the whole "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" idea goes out the window...
20PhantomRegiment09 1 year ago
Rad! Bad Religion shirt! I actually used to listen to that punk rock group! I think Shawn was just wearing this shirt that day to make a statement and to maybe get a little rise out of others to see what they'd say. LOL!
3Deditor 1 year ago
Dude, get over yourself. You guys seem obsessed with negativity and are fixated on the church. Why don't you go and get a life maybe? Seriously, there is a wide big world out there to explore. GET A LIFE! ! ! ! All of your hate and put downs are not going to effect the church in the least... NO ONE CARES about your negative, pathetic, childish rants...
iceman0276 1 year ago 2
I wonder if Jesus would have a public relations department.
Rahab111222 2 years ago
If a serial rapist fled prosecution, moved across the nation and got a job, married a sweet girl and was a model citizen...would he still be a serial rapist?
The LDS church should be left alone. It has a shady foundation, a dastardly past and skeletons galore in the archives. But it knows how to build great and spacious buildings, and how to romance the media.
The new Mall will reveal the inspiration from on high. Visitors will be eagerly anticipating a clean place to come and panhandle.
PennnSmith 2 years ago
@PennnSmith Yes....he would still be a seriel rapist. His victims would want him held accountable, and it would be the responsibility of the social institution upholding the law to prosecute.
vcomp1960 1 year ago
Ask yourself something, how much good has the LDS church done for the world. After you have spent your month counting i want YOU to count the number of wrongs the LDS "Church" has done. Now that you spent ten seconds saying, "uhh... i don't know?" ask yourself what kind of person u are trying to destroy a church that teaches people to live good lifes and help others always. You can't judge a church by the actions of it's followers, but by it's teachings and leaders.
Nix5000 2 years ago
"Is it Just me"
As far as I can tell, yes it is just you.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
Nope--ask any non-Mormon who knows the doctrine . . . the eternal hell that Nephi described is not the ephemeral hell that is described in D&C 76 as being where you go before going to the telestial kingdom, which is so awesome, according to 76:89 that it defies all description.
grnmessiah 2 years ago
Actually I am a Mormon who knows the doctrine and yes the same hell is described in both places.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
@ImLDSRU2
So the hell that they would dwell in eternally, as Nephi described is the same one that nearly everybody (except for the sons of perdition) would be redeemed from after Christ's millennial work was finished?
Although I already know your poor excuse--please enlighten the non-members who may be watching . . .
grnmessiah 2 years ago
@grnmessiah,
Uhhh... Nephi did not say that they would dwell there eternally...
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
@ImLDSRU2
What does "final state" mean to you?
grnmessiah 2 years ago
#grn,
Final State will change depending upon context. it could refer to the final state after some procedure here on earth (like the final state after plastic surgery) or it could be death or it could be the spirit world or it could be something later.
But my feelings about what that term mean is a different issue. Weren't we talking about Nephi 28 and D&C 76?
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
@ImLDSRU2
Read it--1 Nephi 15; the final state of the souls of bad men after judgement is to go dwell with the devil in hell . . . I am sure that the devil isn't in the telestial kingdom.
You asserted that it didn't say that they would dwell there eternally; 1 Nephi 15 says that hell is their final state after the resurrection . . . I'm citing scripture and you are just trying straw-men without reading any of it.
grnmessiah 2 years ago
@grn,
You are becoming confused. Let's revisit ... The original question was 2 Nephi 28 and D&C 76 described the same situation.
If you have decided that discussion is over and now want to go to I Nephi 15, say so. But first lets be clear on whether you have abandoned that last discussion.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
@ImLDSRU2
Ok--Endless . . . that was used in 2 Nephi 28--the place prepared for them was "a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment"
I was a Mormon; I know the Mormon excuse . . . please share it with the class.
grnmessiah 2 years ago
@grn,
So, back to 2N28. What does it actually say? Read it carefully. CAREFULLY.
You were once a Mormon but now no more... so you may not have the light to understand but I will be patient.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
@ImLDSRU2
Endless . . . lake of fire and brimstone . . . sounds like a place so great as to defy all description . . .
grnmessiah 2 years ago
No, that's not at all what i'm trying to say.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
You don't know much about the SS doctrine, hu? Figures.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
2. Actually, if you actually sit down thru ACTUAL history, not church history or Anti-mormon history that is. ACTUAL UNBIASED history. You will find that he did not rob and steal all that money.
3. Mormons believe outer darkness is for the "evil" human beings. They have three kingdoms of "glory". The highest kingdom being the best one, and the others, not as good but still a little better than "outer darkness" or "hell". You're welcome to look up everything i've said. Non-mormon here.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
I'm not mormon and...
1. The Mormons themselves have books called "Church History Vol. 1-(a great deal of them)" Which list every single event in the past of mormonism. It so accurate that even anti-mormons use it to "disprove" the religion, they also have many other works. The kids aren't told because, either way, their kids they would still buy it, you could tell 'em JS could use a flying broom stick, they would buy it no problem.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
Did not Gordon B Hinckley say that the Mormon Jesus is different from the Jesus of the Bible. What Jesus do you follow? This came from church news, week ending june 20 pg 7. All you Mormons should Read 2 corinthians 11. Did you Mormons follow or here about your 2 prophet Brigham young organizing a lench mob to massacre innocent Christian settler. Sept 11 1857. Boy you Mormons are great people.
ohbestpal1 2 years ago
WOW. PLEASE GROW UP. I'm just a kid and I can see how immature you're being. Research before you criticize. Check the context of those articles before you make false assumptions... it's amusing (not really) to see how committed people are to prove this church wrong. As far as I've see, they aren't on other religions websites posting comments like this. Again, grow up. Get a life
hiatt91 2 years ago
Oh, don't worry. jehova witnesses get it, Baptists get it, Catholics get it. All religions get it. For some reason people do the opposite of what is taught in their "Gospels". Instead of loving one another and helping, being respectful and all that. They anger againts each other and fight over it and all that. It's funny how many call themselves christians but so few actually are. That includes members of all religions, LDS, southern baptists, jews and so on.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
He did say that but followed it with, "We Believe in The Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the greatest figure of time and eternity. Believe that His matchless life reached back before the world was formed. Believe that He was Jehovah of the OT that He was the Messiah of the NT. He died, was resurrected, He visited the western continents, taught the people here. He ushered in this final gospel dispensation, and He lives, the living Son of the living God, Savior and Redeemer.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
As to the "Mountain Meadows" Massacre. If you actually do your historical research, Brigham Young was not involved with the massacre. The people that did it were LDS, yes. But they were clearly nutjobs. Much like back in the crusades. So here you have a "modern" massacre which was done without consent for their leader, and then you have the crusades, which was done with the full authorization of the catholic church. This is coming from a non-mormon by the way.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
Oh please.
President Monson is so above the nonsense of Shawn McCraney and his sycophantic acolytes on Youtube.
He has much, MUCH more important things to do than satiate the ego of Shawn McCraney.
This is just sad.
Rommelator 2 years ago
Actually genius it was a mormon woman who insisted on the phone that he invite Tommy Monson on the show a few weeks before that show. To prove a point that the mormon leader had no interest on being on the show, he made the call and the above video is the result of that.
If anything it just goes to show the naiveness and stupidity of the typical mormon mindset. I guess you could say Shawn was just humoring this poor mormon woman and her silly request.
sanjayarulz 2 years ago 5
@sanjayarulz The stupidity of the typical mormon mindset.........hmmmm.........if you only knew that Thomas S. Monson travels and travels his entire life, would you understand his schedule. HE DOES NOT HAVE TIME TO WASTE WITH YAHOOS SUCH AS SHAWN. He hates the church, let him! We will always let him back, but no. He's too stubborn and hard headed. Blame him you moron you. He's the one that caused this tension!
Allmighty193 1 year ago
I can't help you with your personal issues.
I have not said that anyone lied about the translation process. I have not claimed that the church presently teaches a fictional translation process.
I hope that there are many gods. The righteous shall dwell in everlasting burnings.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
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hiatt91 2 years ago
1. I would not know. Neither would you.
2. The righteous shall dwell in everlasting burnings.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
In the case of the primary teacher.. no that is not a lie.
In the case of the Bank, yes that is a lie.
In the case of Islam... I never rejected it.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
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I'm not mormon and...
1. The Mormons themselves have books called "Church History Vol. 1-(a great deal of them)" Which list every single event in the past of mormonism. It so accurate that even anti-mormons use it to "disprove" the religion, they also have many other works. The kids aren't told because, either way, their kids they would still buy it, you could tell 'em JS could use a flying broom stick, they would buy it no problem.
Johnwatsis 2 years ago
That you call people liars does not make them liars.
You are hardly a respectable witness of such things.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
Oh yes... God condemns those who reject Him and those whom He sends.
By the way, I am fine if you want to be in that group.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
Its too bad that you feel you are part of the group God condemns. Its a choice.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
I would not think it was the very first time that you were called thick or that you always disliked it.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
I am sure that you have a very thick hide.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
If you know what official doctrine is... then obviously my opinion or my knowledge and insight are of no value to you.
I have opinions and I have insight. I do not intend to share them with you.
Pearls before swine and all that.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
Why are you asking me what is doctrine if you do not believe that I know what official doctrine is?
Why not ask a spokesperson for the Church?
On the other hand, if you are willing to accept me as having good and correct information, then I will answer.
ImLDSRU2 2 years ago
The discussion below is absurd. I don't need to be a duck to know that a duck has feathers, webbed feat & bill w/ which he quacks. The notion that you must be a thing in order understand or accurately describe a thing is grossly fallacious.
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
ha good luck, these guys never go near media, not even the press
djlawney 2 years ago
They arent calling you back because your a fucking idiot. Honestly, I dont get why people go around and bash on religions. Get a fucking life.
dtrain661 2 years ago
This would be my question: Do any of really believe your own official theology?
Consider how the Mormons changed their whole theology on race. This was all supposedly devinely revealed TRUTH. How can God's (or rather their god's) supposedly eternal truth just change over night? Not that I approve of the old racism. It is just impossilble that these men could have been true prophets of God & been so wrong on something like this.
Why do they hide their teaching if they really believe them?
VictorLepanto 2 years ago
This is an excellent question.