Sorry but your understanding of the "Broken Window Fallacy" is, itself a fallacy. You claim that when money is given to public works that it is taken from taxes which would have gone to other goods and services. But tha'ts just not necessarily true. The problem is you're basing your belief system on rigid ideology. It's much more complicated than that. The correct answer is: "It depends".
@AletheiaZetetic if all debt is repaid, there wouldn't be anymore money. In reality are monetary system is a fallacy, and this is just an example of the pure insanity we live in today. From fractional reserve banking to financial terrorism, are financial system is and has been broken. It really is that simple
Corporations are hoarding cash b/c they are uncertain about the economy, Europe, etc. Can you give me your source for where they are putting $1.4 trillion outside the US?
@uFlubber Aug 16, 2011 Steven M. Davidoff , "Tax Policy Change Would Bring Cash Piles Abroad Back Home", "In an analyst report in May, JPMorgan Chase estimated that 519 American multinational corporations had $1.375 trillion outside the United States." This article refers to the fact if money earned abroad, after taxes paid to foreign Govts is brought back into the US, more taxes are taken out, after the Foreign Tax Credit is applied. This is is central to understanding outsourcing. Questions?
@luvcheney1 CBPP: Many Analysts Reported "No Evidence" 2004 Tax Holiday Increased Job Creation. Explaining that proponents for a tax holiday for corporate repatriation in 2004 also promised "a large number of new jobs" and a boost to economic growth, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities noted: These promises were not borne out. As researchers at the National Bureau for Economic Research, the Congressional Research Service, the Treasury Department , and outside analysis
@uFlubber First of all, the most obvious thing is why the money is being earned in other nations and not here. Answer? Profit is higher, elsewhere. Lots of reasons for this, taxes, labor costs, lawsuits, regulations, environmental, etc. So, ANY changes we can make that INCREASE corp profit in the US will incentivize Corps to stay, and other corps to come, or come back. Your point is that corps may just give the money back as dividends. Americans with money is bad? Govt isnt getting tax anyway!
CBPP: Many Analysts Reported "No Evidence" 2004 Tax Holiday Increased Job Creation. Explaining that proponents for a tax holiday for corporate repatriation in 2004 also promised "a large number of new jobs" and a boost to economic growth, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities noted: These promises were not borne out. As researchers at the National Bureau for Economic Research, the Congressional Research Service, the Treasury Department , and outside
@uFlubber When my taxes are raised, it leaves me a lot less money. I cant afford to make large tips to the young strippers I like. Much as a like helping out single mothers with problems, I cant. These dlollar bills I used to put in panties used to be used to buy formula, and diapers. Raising my taxes hurts babies. You hate babies, dont you?
@luvcheney1 haha, guess flubber isn't answering your arg the way we did, so you're moving in on him (as you should:) Check out this article, especially the last paragraph. It speaks directly to your strippers analogy, which, as we said, would be totally appropriate were we talking about raising taxes on the upper-middle class, but we're not. Let us knw what you think. These millionaires are smart guys, not "dirty hippies:)"
(Just google "cnn tax millionaires" and it should show up.)
@OccupyIdeas I get more than 1 result? You avoid making your case yourself? If a guy makes $100 mill a yr, and you take $2 mill more, sure, he will be fine, I`m sure! THAT isnt the point though! He obviously will have $2 million less. He of course will have to avoid $2 mill economic activity, The usual Lib argument is that the rich save more. ( 12% Clinton term). But more consumption is only a short term boost. Capital increases long term increases in living standards.
@luvcheney1 more than one result? it's the top result, an article about the millionaires who went to congress demanding that their taxes be raised. just check it out if you have a minute. we'd like to hear your take. we like your most recent response. yes, capital SHOULD increase living standards, and money SHOULD trickle down, but it doesn't. That is reflected VERY clearly in the CBO report on growing income inequality since the 70s. But we all def agree that failed gov policy is involved here.
@OccupyIdeas Part 2) Recently I found IRS figures for 2009, and added together all income (cap gains, personal, etc) from $200K yr on up. It came to $1.06 Trill. Lets assume today is $1.4? IF you could raise actual % return to Govt by 15% more, on cap gains, personal, etc that is only $210 bill a yr, we have a $1400 bill annual deficit. Of course, taking additional $210 bill out of pockets of everyone over only $200K will cause reduced economic activity by them, increased avoidance, evasion.
Yeah, and what if the baker invests his money in an exchange traded fund( ETF) which only invests in companies which are in China and only do business there. How does that help our economy?
@uFlubber Dividends and capital appreciation accrue to the investor here in the US, stupid. China is investing all over the world. Everyone does. So what? Fucking morons ought to keep your fucking mouths shut.
@uFlubber Yes, Im a prick, and hate stupid motherfuckers, I see no debate in your posts. Chinese are savers,who save a high % of their income. Their income comes from selling products to people who want to buy them. OMG! What a concept! Deferred consumption becomes Capital. That capital is what is invested all over the world. Try it! Work, and dont spend every fucking penny, then invest it! Not here, of course. Not while people who hate business are in charge. Commies in China like business.
@luvcheney1 R=China also has a progressive income tax rate and a VAT tax, so perhaps we should adopt their tax model. You see no debate in my posts but what you see is logic, something you obviously are lacking. Our tax structure does reward savers who invest with a low cap gains tax rate, and BTW our businesses in this country have never been more profitable sitting on over $2 trillion on their balance sheets. Unfettered capitalism does not work any more than communism does. They both implode
@uFlubber If I own a share of a corporation, after the corp is taxed it sends me my dividend. That dividend is the second time that the profit has been subject to taxation. Warren Buffet owns a lot of Berkshire, and the paid 29% corp taxes out of profit in 2010, and then sent Buffet his dividends, and he owed 15% more. That corp profit is taxed heavily. AS personal income is earned, it is taxed, and a return is needed to stay up with inflation, yet taxed anyway.
Respond to this video... Part 2, China has a 20% corp tax on exports, while we have 35%. Our tax system rewards consumption, not saving. $1.4 Trillion of the $2 trillion corps are "sitting on" is outside the US, because our taxes are too high. Profit today is the same as in 1947-1951. IF business thought profits would continue here, they would invest. Why? They are greedy. The fact they fail to invest shows they see no reason to do so. Nobody turns down profit.
While this may be true in the specific case in this video, it has almost no relation to what's actually happening in the real world today. Making direct analogies to gov't spending is like when rand paul equates personal debt to gov't debt. No economist - conservative or liberal - takes that seriously. Eschewing complexity is not always the way to go. Sometimes you just have to embrace it and deal with the nuance.
@OccupyIdeas The Govt, in order to spend, must get the money somehow. If it taxes money from me, for a project that will stimulate the economy, even though I may be rich, I must make some adjustments in what I do with my money. I actually will have to cut back on something. I choose to cut back on my tipping strippers, and buying lap dances. This causes my favorite girls to have less money, and since they are single mothers, babies must go without toys, and shoes. YOU must hate babies, dont you?
@luvcheney1 Well yes, but that's beside the point damnit! haha...Seriously, we're talking specifically about taxing the pop that will not have to make adjustments. (Small business owners making 500,000 should NOT be taxed more.) We're only pointing out that this video explanation is simply wrong. BTW, we could have sworn we've heard Sean and Bill both mention Smith in passing to bolster their arguments, but you may be right. And hey! don't shove Bill on us populists just cause he says he's one!
@OccupyIdeas "We're talking specifically about taxing the pop that will not have to make adjustments." You say this because you know the rich wont miss the money, or will still be fine without it. However, rich people do spend. In fact, the Fed Res has noted they spent 103% of their incomes during Bush term, and 88% during Clinton. I will grant you they save more than the poor, middle classes. Now you are forced to defend more consumption, less capital formation is good for living standards.
@luvcheney1 maybe you'll take the money out of China and give that money to our gubment to invest in our infrastructure. I agree that confiscatory taxes are not helpful and are in fact harmful, so i think we should find a happy medium.
what if the baker had use the broken window money on illicit drugs or some other self destructive product instead of the suit? When government spends money improving roads , bridges, and education of our citizens, isn't that making our economy more productive? The problem with the logic being used in this video, if we can call it that, it that it ignores some many other possibilities.
@uFlubber Yep. And even more to the point, the baker (just add one n) is not today buying suits, although he could buy thousands. Instead, he is sitting on his money, since by doing so he can earn $ without working. The gov't simply would like to tax the ba(n)ker so it can put that money to use. They WILL hire people to tailor suits. (Though most likely it'll be Haliburton:( in any case, sitting on the $ only helps the ba(n)ker. Too bad people are ignoring what the ba(n)ker is really up to.
@OccupyIdeas I guess the rich and corporations put dollar bills in a coffee can and bury them? I suspect they invest it. I also have an idea that the US Govt borrows money. I suspect that in order to actually borrow, someone must have saved money previously? I also suspect that invested money works, earning a return. I suspect that in order for a return to be generated to the investor, that money must be employed somehow to enable the return to be paid?
@uFlubber Roads, bridges, education are things the Govt has chosen to provide. Do not pretend that since they are involved, the market wouldnt provide them. An IPOD is more difficult to provide than a fucking road. Note traffic jams, the wasted fuel, time, pollution. Govt provided, of course. Note govt union monopoly in schools K-12 lagging the rest of the world in math/ science. Moving money from one pile to another just causes an invisible negative, with a visible positive.
The new "Danish" government jusr raised the number of stateemployed kacks by 20k and is powering their jobmachine with the idea of the Greek Conservatives who "destroyed the European economy" and the Socialists "who struggle to save it".I can't wait for it to go their way!
the broken window fallacy is purely belief like religion. You have no proof spurring the economy via destruction isn't helpful. Where are the peer reviewed studies?
I think the end of his comment is an example of what a broken window fallacy-user might say in the context of some other religion. Like, "You can't prove God doesn't exist."
We need an economist for president. An honest man who'll shrink the government. A man who'll abolish entire federal agencies & balance the budget. Someone with a STRONG history of following the constitution Who'll end the fed & link our money to metals. A wise man who's consistent & will end the IRS & fight socialism. Who'll stop policing the world & will end the illegal wars that are bankrupting us. Major media ignores him, Democrats & republicans hate him. He's in 2012 primaries! Wake up USA!
There's one more thing that is unseen Cronie Capitalisim. The Government we have now is controlled by the Corporations with the lobby system and create a revolving door of people moving from government to corporations in which government agents give the corporation some nice fat contracts then goes to work for the corporations and back and forth to get the fat government contracts
For a text book example Google:
Dane County (Wisconsin) Circuit Court Judge Patrick J. Fiedler and Monsanto
Sorry but your understanding of the "Broken Window Fallacy" is, itself a fallacy. You claim that when money is given to public works that it is taken from taxes which would have gone to other goods and services. But tha'ts just not necessarily true. The problem is you're basing your belief system on rigid ideology. It's much more complicated than that. The correct answer is: "It depends".
AletheiaZetetic 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@AletheiaZetetic if all debt is repaid, there wouldn't be anymore money. In reality are monetary system is a fallacy, and this is just an example of the pure insanity we live in today. From fractional reserve banking to financial terrorism, are financial system is and has been broken. It really is that simple
alexisawsomeya 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
The reason money is being earned in other countries is that our corp do lots of business in other countries.. duh
uFlubber 3 months ago
Corporations are hoarding cash b/c they are uncertain about the economy, Europe, etc. Can you give me your source for where they are putting $1.4 trillion outside the US?
uFlubber 3 months ago
@uFlubber Aug 16, 2011 Steven M. Davidoff , "Tax Policy Change Would Bring Cash Piles Abroad Back Home", "In an analyst report in May, JPMorgan Chase estimated that 519 American multinational corporations had $1.375 trillion outside the United States." This article refers to the fact if money earned abroad, after taxes paid to foreign Govts is brought back into the US, more taxes are taken out, after the Foreign Tax Credit is applied. This is is central to understanding outsourcing. Questions?
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 CBPP: Many Analysts Reported "No Evidence" 2004 Tax Holiday Increased Job Creation. Explaining that proponents for a tax holiday for corporate repatriation in 2004 also promised "a large number of new jobs" and a boost to economic growth, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities noted: These promises were not borne out. As researchers at the National Bureau for Economic Research, the Congressional Research Service, the Treasury Department , and outside analysis
uFlubber 3 months ago
@uFlubber First of all, the most obvious thing is why the money is being earned in other nations and not here. Answer? Profit is higher, elsewhere. Lots of reasons for this, taxes, labor costs, lawsuits, regulations, environmental, etc. So, ANY changes we can make that INCREASE corp profit in the US will incentivize Corps to stay, and other corps to come, or come back. Your point is that corps may just give the money back as dividends. Americans with money is bad? Govt isnt getting tax anyway!
luvcheney1 3 months ago
CBPP: Many Analysts Reported "No Evidence" 2004 Tax Holiday Increased Job Creation. Explaining that proponents for a tax holiday for corporate repatriation in 2004 also promised "a large number of new jobs" and a boost to economic growth, the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities noted: These promises were not borne out. As researchers at the National Bureau for Economic Research, the Congressional Research Service, the Treasury Department , and outside
uFlubber 3 months ago
This should be called The Broken Logic Fallacy.
uFlubber 3 months ago
@uFlubber When my taxes are raised, it leaves me a lot less money. I cant afford to make large tips to the young strippers I like. Much as a like helping out single mothers with problems, I cant. These dlollar bills I used to put in panties used to be used to buy formula, and diapers. Raising my taxes hurts babies. You hate babies, dont you?
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 haha, guess flubber isn't answering your arg the way we did, so you're moving in on him (as you should:) Check out this article, especially the last paragraph. It speaks directly to your strippers analogy, which, as we said, would be totally appropriate were we talking about raising taxes on the upper-middle class, but we're not. Let us knw what you think. These millionaires are smart guys, not "dirty hippies:)"
(Just google "cnn tax millionaires" and it should show up.)
OccupyIdeas 3 months ago
@OccupyIdeas I get more than 1 result? You avoid making your case yourself? If a guy makes $100 mill a yr, and you take $2 mill more, sure, he will be fine, I`m sure! THAT isnt the point though! He obviously will have $2 million less. He of course will have to avoid $2 mill economic activity, The usual Lib argument is that the rich save more. ( 12% Clinton term). But more consumption is only a short term boost. Capital increases long term increases in living standards.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 more than one result? it's the top result, an article about the millionaires who went to congress demanding that their taxes be raised. just check it out if you have a minute. we'd like to hear your take. we like your most recent response. yes, capital SHOULD increase living standards, and money SHOULD trickle down, but it doesn't. That is reflected VERY clearly in the CBO report on growing income inequality since the 70s. But we all def agree that failed gov policy is involved here.
OccupyIdeas 3 months ago
@OccupyIdeas Part 2) Recently I found IRS figures for 2009, and added together all income (cap gains, personal, etc) from $200K yr on up. It came to $1.06 Trill. Lets assume today is $1.4? IF you could raise actual % return to Govt by 15% more, on cap gains, personal, etc that is only $210 bill a yr, we have a $1400 bill annual deficit. Of course, taking additional $210 bill out of pockets of everyone over only $200K will cause reduced economic activity by them, increased avoidance, evasion.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
Yeah, and what if the baker invests his money in an exchange traded fund( ETF) which only invests in companies which are in China and only do business there. How does that help our economy?
uFlubber 3 months ago
@uFlubber Dividends and capital appreciation accrue to the investor here in the US, stupid. China is investing all over the world. Everyone does. So what? Fucking morons ought to keep your fucking mouths shut.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 you are obviously a misinformed prick who is good at name calling but not very good engaging in a logical debate.
uFlubber 3 months ago
@uFlubber Yes, Im a prick, and hate stupid motherfuckers, I see no debate in your posts. Chinese are savers,who save a high % of their income. Their income comes from selling products to people who want to buy them. OMG! What a concept! Deferred consumption becomes Capital. That capital is what is invested all over the world. Try it! Work, and dont spend every fucking penny, then invest it! Not here, of course. Not while people who hate business are in charge. Commies in China like business.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 R=China also has a progressive income tax rate and a VAT tax, so perhaps we should adopt their tax model. You see no debate in my posts but what you see is logic, something you obviously are lacking. Our tax structure does reward savers who invest with a low cap gains tax rate, and BTW our businesses in this country have never been more profitable sitting on over $2 trillion on their balance sheets. Unfettered capitalism does not work any more than communism does. They both implode
uFlubber 3 months ago
@uFlubber If I own a share of a corporation, after the corp is taxed it sends me my dividend. That dividend is the second time that the profit has been subject to taxation. Warren Buffet owns a lot of Berkshire, and the paid 29% corp taxes out of profit in 2010, and then sent Buffet his dividends, and he owed 15% more. That corp profit is taxed heavily. AS personal income is earned, it is taxed, and a return is needed to stay up with inflation, yet taxed anyway.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
Respond to this video... Part 2, China has a 20% corp tax on exports, while we have 35%. Our tax system rewards consumption, not saving. $1.4 Trillion of the $2 trillion corps are "sitting on" is outside the US, because our taxes are too high. Profit today is the same as in 1947-1951. IF business thought profits would continue here, they would invest. Why? They are greedy. The fact they fail to invest shows they see no reason to do so. Nobody turns down profit.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1"China is investing all over the world." Where does China get the money it uses to purchase our TSYs?
uFlubber 3 months ago
While this may be true in the specific case in this video, it has almost no relation to what's actually happening in the real world today. Making direct analogies to gov't spending is like when rand paul equates personal debt to gov't debt. No economist - conservative or liberal - takes that seriously. Eschewing complexity is not always the way to go. Sometimes you just have to embrace it and deal with the nuance.
OccupyIdeas 3 months ago
@OccupyIdeas The Govt, in order to spend, must get the money somehow. If it taxes money from me, for a project that will stimulate the economy, even though I may be rich, I must make some adjustments in what I do with my money. I actually will have to cut back on something. I choose to cut back on my tipping strippers, and buying lap dances. This causes my favorite girls to have less money, and since they are single mothers, babies must go without toys, and shoes. YOU must hate babies, dont you?
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 Well yes, but that's beside the point damnit! haha...Seriously, we're talking specifically about taxing the pop that will not have to make adjustments. (Small business owners making 500,000 should NOT be taxed more.) We're only pointing out that this video explanation is simply wrong. BTW, we could have sworn we've heard Sean and Bill both mention Smith in passing to bolster their arguments, but you may be right. And hey! don't shove Bill on us populists just cause he says he's one!
OccupyIdeas 3 months ago
@OccupyIdeas "We're talking specifically about taxing the pop that will not have to make adjustments." You say this because you know the rich wont miss the money, or will still be fine without it. However, rich people do spend. In fact, the Fed Res has noted they spent 103% of their incomes during Bush term, and 88% during Clinton. I will grant you they save more than the poor, middle classes. Now you are forced to defend more consumption, less capital formation is good for living standards.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@luvcheney1 maybe you'll take the money out of China and give that money to our gubment to invest in our infrastructure. I agree that confiscatory taxes are not helpful and are in fact harmful, so i think we should find a happy medium.
uFlubber 3 months ago
Good video! I've tried explaining this to my friends but they are retarded.
zoomerlawns 4 months ago
what if the baker had use the broken window money on illicit drugs or some other self destructive product instead of the suit? When government spends money improving roads , bridges, and education of our citizens, isn't that making our economy more productive? The problem with the logic being used in this video, if we can call it that, it that it ignores some many other possibilities.
uFlubber 4 months ago
@uFlubber Yep. And even more to the point, the baker (just add one n) is not today buying suits, although he could buy thousands. Instead, he is sitting on his money, since by doing so he can earn $ without working. The gov't simply would like to tax the ba(n)ker so it can put that money to use. They WILL hire people to tailor suits. (Though most likely it'll be Haliburton:( in any case, sitting on the $ only helps the ba(n)ker. Too bad people are ignoring what the ba(n)ker is really up to.
OccupyIdeas 3 months ago
@OccupyIdeas I guess the rich and corporations put dollar bills in a coffee can and bury them? I suspect they invest it. I also have an idea that the US Govt borrows money. I suspect that in order to actually borrow, someone must have saved money previously? I also suspect that invested money works, earning a return. I suspect that in order for a return to be generated to the investor, that money must be employed somehow to enable the return to be paid?
luvcheney1 3 months ago
@uFlubber Roads, bridges, education are things the Govt has chosen to provide. Do not pretend that since they are involved, the market wouldnt provide them. An IPOD is more difficult to provide than a fucking road. Note traffic jams, the wasted fuel, time, pollution. Govt provided, of course. Note govt union monopoly in schools K-12 lagging the rest of the world in math/ science. Moving money from one pile to another just causes an invisible negative, with a visible positive.
luvcheney1 3 months ago
The new "Danish" government jusr raised the number of stateemployed kacks by 20k and is powering their jobmachine with the idea of the Greek Conservatives who "destroyed the European economy" and the Socialists "who struggle to save it".I can't wait for it to go their way!
perplacymp 4 months ago
Good explanation, but why does the baker have that ridiculous accent lol
ExileInFire 4 months ago
The video is no less fallacious than the argument presented...
vetromaster 4 months ago
awesome
AnarchoCapitalistTV 4 months ago
the broken window fallacy is purely belief like religion. You have no proof spurring the economy via destruction isn't helpful. Where are the peer reviewed studies?
McDicker96 4 months ago
@McDicker96 How can you possibly think that destruction can be a positive?
Iain1962 4 months ago
@Iain1962
I think the end of his comment is an example of what a broken window fallacy-user might say in the context of some other religion. Like, "You can't prove God doesn't exist."
TheCeejReturns 4 months ago
We need an economist for president. An honest man who'll shrink the government. A man who'll abolish entire federal agencies & balance the budget. Someone with a STRONG history of following the constitution Who'll end the fed & link our money to metals. A wise man who's consistent & will end the IRS & fight socialism. Who'll stop policing the world & will end the illegal wars that are bankrupting us. Major media ignores him, Democrats & republicans hate him. He's in 2012 primaries! Wake up USA!
mrsparex 4 months ago
It is total insanity to say that destruction is prosperity. Total lunacy.
carcabe 4 months ago 2
@carcabe Ask Larry Silverstein you complete idiot, omg people like you will make sure humankind will never evolve.
altenburg423 4 months ago
You should make a similar video addressing ludditism; the other "dey took er jerbs" related issue that people can't seem to wrap their heads around.
illuzion30 4 months ago
There's one more thing that is unseen Cronie Capitalisim. The Government we have now is controlled by the Corporations with the lobby system and create a revolving door of people moving from government to corporations in which government agents give the corporation some nice fat contracts then goes to work for the corporations and back and forth to get the fat government contracts
For a text book example Google:
Dane County (Wisconsin) Circuit Court Judge Patrick J. Fiedler and Monsanto
russkeller 4 months ago
@russkeller yep ,thats what tony blair did,
MrFes888 4 months ago
Ok thea italiana a accenta isa rediculous-a. Message is good though.
sharperguy 4 months ago
Paul Krugman is an absolute fool.
roxtar10870 4 months ago
Nation Building!
ClintfromNYtoVA 4 months ago
Great video!
PyroPortrayal 4 months ago