I thought this was fantastic, Lets face it...the way to argue religion is not with carefully refuting and debunking, they've heard that all before, and aren't interested at all in "the truth".
What you need to do is show just how stupid some of the things they say are, force them to reanalyze their opinion.
I'm not sure what is with all the negative comments. I thought you made a valid point about theistic thinking, in a way that anyone can understand and relate to. Good vid
@jippzmcghee I guess I can see how some people might get confused. Especially since I dropped in a secondary point (About the absurdity of judging someone on a choice they might honestly believe is the right one...that was the door analogy). But the main point is summarized in the description, and I added an annotation so viewers will read it before watching the video.
I think you should rework this, or ask for a pause at first to read the description. I felt set up for a commentary related to salvation, then only after two minutes came a hint of the real thing you were getting at, then back to salvation, mixed with the 'who are we to question' motif, and the intended illustration got lost. Even the title contributes to the confusion.
@ But I think you're on to something interesting; connecting a believer's certainty with the apparent unfairness of life, and the impossibility of comprehending or anticipating God's actions. There seems to be a double standard in there somewhere.
Exactly. The double standard is in accepting the "We cant judge or use the actions of god as an argument against; since we are mere mortal, limited humans." argument. Therefore we must remain silent unless we can show that no higher moral good can come of some seemingly unfair or despicable circumstance. If a theist was in that same situation regarding his eternal fate...would he not question it? Would he not protest?
@djosephallen Good call on the title. I was thinking something to capture the idea that theists are more than happy to be agnostic about almost anything when it's convenient, even while claiming absolute certainty about other things. Good luck putting *that* into three or four words! ;)
Right! At first I didn't recognise the "common theistic argument." After watching it again, I think I get it. The doors refer to the different religions, and if you choose wrong, you burn. Am I close?
Yeah...pretty much. The doors are really just an underlying point about the absurdity of having to pick between all the differing religions with the wrong choice being punished with eternal torture. The main point is that theists state that we cannot judge an action to be immoral or evil just because we cant think of a higher moral purpose that will be achieved by that action. So..If you are a theist and are sent to hell and are given this line of reasoning...how would you react?
And you can add about 15 seconds you lost while typing your nonconstructive comment. If you took a minute, you would realize this was a fun and dumb:) way of presenting a serious critique of a couple of theological arguments I´ve encountered.
@djosephallen Not really, I typed it while I was watching the ending. "Dumb" I'll agree with though. Your video starts with the premise that it's a "theist” argument but it is in fact a poorly thought out attack on Christians instead. Theist hold that there is a God/s who/m is unknown and have no interaction with us
@booniesman88 Deists hold that position, not theists.
And I didn't think it was a theist argument coming in. I actually assumed it was an argument against a theist one when I first clicked on it. Though, I know the YouTube channel, so I guess that is part of that reason.
Side note: I enjoyed the video. Simple and to the point with a very clear argument behind it. :-)
@tsruikk I stand corrected on the deist/theist thing. Still, all theists are not Christian which was my main objection.The premise of the video is that Christians do not question anything because it's the will of God and we may not understand it,so he offered a twist.The video then takes liberty to base its rebuttal in heaven which is a strawman,the Christian viewpoint only applies to earthly matters.The argument DJA proposes is one used by Christians with no theological training or study.
I see you have already been corrected on the deist thing. But I read your comment, and I think you slightly missed the proper point I was trying to make. First: the video has the word THEIST in it for a reason. Jews also believe that true repentance before god is the way to be "saved" although they don't call it that. So this might very well be a Jew. (CONT....)
@booniesman88 (Cont..)Second: The argument Ive heard (from knowledgeable Christians such as migkiller) is that when we see god ordering the murder of children, or god allowing something like the Holocaust for example...that unless we can show that no higher moral purpose will be achieved by god doing/allowing this, then we cannot critizice/judge/use it is an argument against god. So the video asks...what if a theist was sent to hell using this reasoning? Would they just accept it?
I thought this was fantastic, Lets face it...the way to argue religion is not with carefully refuting and debunking, they've heard that all before, and aren't interested at all in "the truth".
What you need to do is show just how stupid some of the things they say are, force them to reanalyze their opinion.
666danielclark666 1 year ago
@666danielclark666
Thanks! I'm really not out to just needlessly make fun. This was a fun way of presenting a serious objection that I have.
Thanks for your comment.
djosephallen 1 year ago
I'm not sure what is with all the negative comments. I thought you made a valid point about theistic thinking, in a way that anyone can understand and relate to. Good vid
jippzmcghee 1 year ago
@jippzmcghee I guess I can see how some people might get confused. Especially since I dropped in a secondary point (About the absurdity of judging someone on a choice they might honestly believe is the right one...that was the door analogy). But the main point is summarized in the description, and I added an annotation so viewers will read it before watching the video.
Thanks for your comment.
djosephallen 1 year ago
an excellent point, some rough edges here and there i guess, but you made your point well and its a pretty solid one.
beebobox 1 year ago
@beebobox
Thanks. I might not have been as clear as I wanted. But what the hell...
djosephallen 1 year ago
I think you should rework this, or ask for a pause at first to read the description. I felt set up for a commentary related to salvation, then only after two minutes came a hint of the real thing you were getting at, then back to salvation, mixed with the 'who are we to question' motif, and the intended illustration got lost. Even the title contributes to the confusion.
LazySundayClub 1 year ago
@ But I think you're on to something interesting; connecting a believer's certainty with the apparent unfairness of life, and the impossibility of comprehending or anticipating God's actions. There seems to be a double standard in there somewhere.
LazySundayClub 1 year ago
@LazySundayClub
Exactly. The double standard is in accepting the "We cant judge or use the actions of god as an argument against; since we are mere mortal, limited humans." argument. Therefore we must remain silent unless we can show that no higher moral good can come of some seemingly unfair or despicable circumstance. If a theist was in that same situation regarding his eternal fate...would he not question it? Would he not protest?
Thanks again.
djosephallen 1 year ago
@LazySundayClub
Took your advice. Annotation added. Do you have an Idea for a better title? Im totally open to changing it.
djosephallen 1 year ago
@djosephallen Good call on the title. I was thinking something to capture the idea that theists are more than happy to be agnostic about almost anything when it's convenient, even while claiming absolute certainty about other things. Good luck putting *that* into three or four words! ;)
LazySundayClub 1 year ago
@ Of course, there's always, "xxxSEXY PORN - Christians don't watch!" I intend to try that one sometime.
LazySundayClub 1 year ago
I guess I missed the point with this one.
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
@Hereticbooks
Read the description...that might help.
djosephallen 1 year ago
@djosephallen
Right! At first I didn't recognise the "common theistic argument." After watching it again, I think I get it. The doors refer to the different religions, and if you choose wrong, you burn. Am I close?
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
@Hereticbooks
Yeah...pretty much. The doors are really just an underlying point about the absurdity of having to pick between all the differing religions with the wrong choice being punished with eternal torture. The main point is that theists state that we cannot judge an action to be immoral or evil just because we cant think of a higher moral purpose that will be achieved by that action. So..If you are a theist and are sent to hell and are given this line of reasoning...how would you react?
djosephallen 1 year ago
@djosephallen
well said.
Hereticbooks 1 year ago
this has got to be the dumbest video I have ever seen 4:38 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
booniesman88 1 year ago
@booniesman88
And you can add about 15 seconds you lost while typing your nonconstructive comment. If you took a minute, you would realize this was a fun and dumb:) way of presenting a serious critique of a couple of theological arguments I´ve encountered.
djosephallen 1 year ago
@djosephallen Not really, I typed it while I was watching the ending. "Dumb" I'll agree with though. Your video starts with the premise that it's a "theist” argument but it is in fact a poorly thought out attack on Christians instead. Theist hold that there is a God/s who/m is unknown and have no interaction with us
booniesman88 1 year ago
@booniesman88 Deists hold that position, not theists.
And I didn't think it was a theist argument coming in. I actually assumed it was an argument against a theist one when I first clicked on it. Though, I know the YouTube channel, so I guess that is part of that reason.
Side note: I enjoyed the video. Simple and to the point with a very clear argument behind it. :-)
tsruikk 1 year ago
@tsruikk I stand corrected on the deist/theist thing. Still, all theists are not Christian which was my main objection.The premise of the video is that Christians do not question anything because it's the will of God and we may not understand it,so he offered a twist.The video then takes liberty to base its rebuttal in heaven which is a strawman,the Christian viewpoint only applies to earthly matters.The argument DJA proposes is one used by Christians with no theological training or study.
booniesman88 1 year ago
@booniesman88
I see you have already been corrected on the deist thing. But I read your comment, and I think you slightly missed the proper point I was trying to make. First: the video has the word THEIST in it for a reason. Jews also believe that true repentance before god is the way to be "saved" although they don't call it that. So this might very well be a Jew. (CONT....)
djosephallen 1 year ago
@booniesman88 (Cont..)Second: The argument Ive heard (from knowledgeable Christians such as migkiller) is that when we see god ordering the murder of children, or god allowing something like the Holocaust for example...that unless we can show that no higher moral purpose will be achieved by god doing/allowing this, then we cannot critizice/judge/use it is an argument against god. So the video asks...what if a theist was sent to hell using this reasoning? Would they just accept it?
djosephallen 1 year ago
te la rifaste wey, sutilmente dado los mensajes pero divertido... muy bien hecho...
countvladdracule 1 year ago
God is Mexican?
squirreljester2 1 year ago
@squirreljester2
Puertorican.
djosephallen 1 year ago
@djosephallen LOL!!!!!!
LazySundayClub 1 year ago