Incruit OSL Group L Yellow[Arnc] v [Winner] Set 2 (P1/2)

[ameryllw]

I think the secret to the reason a hydralisk's attack out-damages a marine's lies in the explosive damage type that a hydralisk deals. They don't throw one spine at a time, they shoot dozens at a time. Large units take more damage from these spines because they have more surface area to get hit. So it's not the type of shot that makes them so effective, but the number.

Also note, they don't spit them according to the manual, they sling them by flexing muscles.

[ZaneFleia]

I just figure that Hydralisks have been empowered by the Swarm with their assimilation to the point where they can spit the spines out with such power and accuracy that they can puncture armor. I know, it's one hell of a comparison, but think of maybe a dragon. You don't go asking about how dragons can breathe fire into the air, do you? While not quiiiite dragons, I don't think it's unrealistic to assume Hydralisks are just that good.

I realize by now, however, my answer may be a tad late. XD

[sslycat]

to me hydralisks shoot air units is very simple.

After blizzard made all of the zerg units they realized that was no unit that could hit air units and since hydralisks spitting things into the air worked better than zerglings or ultra clawing air units or lurkers underground spines hitting air units they decided hydralisks should attack air.

[stoicsoul1025]

Get off my porch LOL!!!

[elgnairt137]

the luck theory doesn't make sense.

how does a medic heal a marine who is "lucky"?

you should also ask about spore colonies.

how does "spore" kill a battlecruiser?

[Falshion]

You could simply say Hyrdalisk's muscles are really strong, but I think a better question in SC functionality is how do Protoss eat??

[mortalchung]

good point i dont see mouth anywhere lol

[xodarapi]

Blizzard has stated that they are photosynthetic, like plants.

[Falshion]

Heh, I knew the answer, my friend told me since he read one of the books. I was curious if anyone knew they take in sunlight.

[TheOKAY]

i think a better question than that is how to do overlords, devourers, queens, and guardians fly?

Also, how do all other flying units stay in the air if they are not moving? There seems to be no hovering thrusters on the bottom of any protoss or terran flying unit.

[Stormwern]

It looks in the game as though the hydras are around 12ft tall, so their spines are probably pretty big. Secondly, they can increase the speed of the spine quite a bit by hurling themselves forward as they shoot it.

[ForbiddianSC]

HP refers to fatigue/morale. Although the blows are typically non-fatal, once you're at 1 HP, you're completely demoralized and no longer have the strength to get back up.

In real combat, adrenaline allows humans to survive much more vigorous combat than otherwise. People shot in the stomach could manage to stay active 30 minutes (plenty of time for a game of Starcraft). A demoralized soldier might be knocked out instantly.

Medics heal by cheering up the marines or giving drugs.

[hi19hi19]

Oh, the possibilities if medics are "cheering up" marines.

This is just too easy to joke about

[CygnusSC]

Oh, as for how they shoot air... They tilt up.

Hyra melee. The short answer: Zerg needed a bread-and-butter unit.

The abstract answer: Spines are faster. Think about it. If a Marine is shooting at you, or a Zealot rushing you, it's always faster to shoot them from a far rather than close to melee range. Hydra melee is just for show when they can be that badass.

The Klazart reason: July was actually microing the Hydra's in the cutscenes, and the Hydras don't respect lesser Zerg players.

[CygnusSC]

My guess is that they have some kind of elastic musculature in their upper carapace that operates much like ballistae. Ballista of old used animal sinew bands as their propulsion, and could launch large projectiles hundreds of feet. Who's to say countless mutations can't find a way launch a small spines the same distance with deadly effect. For air units, they seem to only be ~100 feet off the ground. If human muscles can shot-put 16lbs 75 ft, hydra ones can sling 5g spines 100 ft lethally

[Andy43213]

Maybe Hydralisk's spines are forced into the body and the body puts pressure on them to keep them in. Then the body simply releases them by taking the pressure off and and thrusting the body forward forcing the spines out at a high velocity.

May I have your autograph?

[LongoMania]

how would medics replenish a marine's health?

[CygnusSC]

There's a reason they're female.

[sblake1225]

(final) i refreshed the page and didn't see the second comment so i re wrote

ignore second comment and delete if possible

[sblake1225]

who have vacuum sealed carapaces. (SC lore on how they left Char)

Building Costs/Unit Sizes: I think that a marine on the screen is a single marine not a platoon. In the grand scale, and a battles being fought on many planets a ridiculous amount of marines would be used otherwise.

I also thing the buildings are taken down after the battle and used again later and the mineral cost is only a measure against the time it takes to set up a building form various parts not construct on the spot

[sblake1225]

(cont) who have vacuum sealed carapaces (explained in SC lore)

Strategic Unit Size: The scale of the conflict in RTS games always annoys me. when seem to spend more on infrastructure than units. My explanation is this: war strategy changes. In the future maybe wars will be fought all over like on diff. planets, division and unit sizes will be small (therefore a marine in the game is only 1 'person' not a platoon) and have mini engagements in dozens/hundreds of places.

(cont)

[sblake1225]

I will probably run into more than one comment: please bare with me. I'll comment on topics in chrono. order they appeared.

hydralysk (hydra) spines: I like the poison explantation, it fits with the zerg. When we cough or sneeze snot leaves our nose at over 120 mph, not a lot but keep in mind if when we evolved for a specific purpose by an almost omnipotent being that could be much higher.

Mutas in space: I like to think they can't, and just curl up like a bat and hide in overlords, (cont)

[Joon930]

IMO the hydralisk "spines" dillema you have can be explained by simple physics. Just think about this. In JFK airport in the US there were cases of big planes forced to halt due to birds, yes birds because of risk of hitting the engines. Even how soft a material is, if propelled at high velocities, it can pierce any armour. Also there are creatures in the wild that can propel projectiles at blinding speed so it's not too surprising in the starcraft universe for a hydra to damage air units.

[pyrotoxic]

A Cholera rush ^_^

[nakedidiot]

the spines are solidified hyrdalisk poop!

[AdmiralkKckass]

A blob of dirt moving at an extremly high speed would do damage. A spine(I assume a piece of bone, bone has the best strength/weight ratio of any natural material) moving at the same speed would do alot of damage. Zerg hydralisk require(25?)gas in their creation this gas is used to make an explosion inside the hydralisk that propels the spine at this high rate of speed. This also explains the green stuff coming out of the hydra as "left over explosion gunk"

[shoutenry]

We can wonder about the musclature of a hydralisk's "spitting", in size comparisons a hydralisk is double the size of a human in a 8 foot tall mech suit! (not to mention having a faster average speed) I'm guessing the amount of actual musclefibers in a hydraslisk is over 40 times more than a human and being zerg can freely use it own proportionately larger adren glans to augment its mucle contracts. A human pitch is at best 100mph. Now, how fast could an organ that was made to spitspines spit?

[cagatenen]

Omg just skip mutas and go for lurkers, ur opp doesnt even have an expo >.>

[Raz242]

The HP system is probably an abstraction of everything from morale, accidents, armor, luck, physical health and so on. But the reason it's so dumbed down is for the game mechanics to work. You see this alot in wargames. Certain factors are abstracted to improve gameplay. So in fact, the HP system could mean anything, but for the game to work it's been greatly simplified to work in a predictable way.

[WhyMex69x]

so medics repair armor with light?

[shoutenry]

hmmm welding the armor? blowtorch lights?

[WhyMex69x]

lol

[lovelymanforu2004]

If luck then there must be chance and we don't see chances play in the game except high ground advantage

[Quantum024]

Hey, from official blizzard data regarding Hydralisk damage:

Hydralisk: medium, explosive

So that means that:

Explosive: Does 100% of listed damage to large units 75% to medium, and 50% to small.

Now considering that it is an explosive damage, I'm thinking that it shoots a spine filled with some sort of combustible material that explodes on contact. I'd also say that it has bone structures that appear much like a machine gun. Of course they have melee attacks; to break up food and eat it!

[weihoozie]

I think 'explosive' is just a type of damage, that shouldn't be taken literally.

Im not sure though.

[danbearking0]

a better question is how mutalisks work.... lol

[weihoozie]

About Hydralisk spine strength : The hydralisk has about 4,000 muscles comepared to a human's 629. You might have seen javelin or spear throwers from the middle ages. When they throw, it penetrates chain mail, and even wood sometimes. Just imagine a hydralisk doing that, but it does not throw or lob it, instead uses kind of like a crossbow mechanism to launch the spines, only about a thousand times more powerful.

[finalcloud13]

Nice one, weihoozie. I also think along with the force Hydralisks can chuck spines, the spines are pretty big, much much bigger than a bullet, therefore it does more damage.

[weihoozie]

Actually, Zerg Hydralisks do not "spit" spines. They open up their upper carapace (beneath this said carapace are hundreds of spines. this came from the "fur" or hair from the species they evolved from when they got incorporated into the brood. yeah the herbivores you mentioned) and shoot out spines using strong, and rapid muscle contractions.

[firebatex]

i thought that it was acid all the time! wtf sad face

[deadceyx]

A hydralisk have glans that produces a special type of fluids and the muscular bad will compress to shoot out in a derection they want. the hydralisc body chemicals keeps the fluids from solidifying. And one these fluids are shot out of their body from powerful compression of their muscular back they solidify with out the neutral body chemicals and form hard spines almost instantly.

[BenHileday]

Kinda like zombies are a little less clumsy then you would think, Hydras are taller then you might think so when shooting air they do not have to shoot as high. Also hydras are amazing jumpers.. you ever see that 1 guy high jump Javier Sotomayor he is a hydralisk...

BTW, hydras also launch 'spines' from their mouth. Literal bones grown rapidly at will covered in slimey-acid.. and thats the worse kind of acid.. the slimey kind.

[urnana]

*continued* As its real hp goes down, every part of the zealot's body is getting worn out. And as it reaches 1HP, its shields recharge but its inner soul(the thing that is keeping it alive) is slowly wearing away. One more attack and the zealot would turn into dust and float away. My theory is something like a high templar dieing. It goes like OOHOOHOHOHOASDFOASOK. then dissapears. I hope you understand what im trying to say Cholera XD Thanks for the commentaries!

[urnana]

Hmm, one more thought about the 1HP thing Cholera. How about protoss units? I think, lets take an example like a zealot. A Zealot has its protoss shields and its original hp. Now the others have mentioned, 1hp would be the final blow since all its armor is gone BUT the protoss actually have shields. My theory would be, the shields are the shields yeah. A blue mystical orb that surrounds the unit as it gets worn out by the units of the other race. Then its HP would be its "soul" i guess. As its

[urnana]

Is it just me, or does Midas look like firebathero?

[CJones13]

Starcraft is really just a simulation of how futuristic combat might work out tactically, however to truly simulate an actual battle your units would have to be controlled in the first person, creating such a game would be so muddled, basically the only way it could happen would be through a toggle option between your production in the normal starcraft view and first person unit control.

[BenHileday]

dood lol that would be crazy! doing all your macro from one view then zooming in to your marines and having to micro them from like an over the shoulder view or even a 1st person view.... but im pretty sure it would not work out in teh long run. Starcraft mixed with Battlefield 2.

[GabrielKorp]

A completly realistic war strategy simulator would be more like a text based game without any unit control at all. Also your available units and resources would be entirely based on the whims of the leadership higher up the chain of command, which also interfer with your descisions at a regular basis.

[whocareschuchu]

you underestimate biology. your muscles are way more efficient than any car engine, and they haven't even been forcefully evolved by the overmind. seriously, it is completely plausible that hydralisks can shoot spines with more force than a bullet. imagine usain bolt's amazing leg muscles being used to throw light strong chitinous poisonous corrosive spines. completely plausible.

[Kakashinoor]

Hydralisk are one of the units in StarCraft that have explosive damage, meaning they are very strong against certain types of units, especially mechanical units. Goliaths air attack is another example of explosive damage.

The spines are covered in some caustic material that corrodes anything it hits.

[BlackMagister]

The hp explanations don't seem to work with medics healing though or stimpacks. As medics aren't healing armor and stimpacks aren't destroying armor either.

Hydralisk just has a lot of muscles like AKPhilosopher said.

Though what I think is odder than Hydralisk is how can Mutalisk fly in space since there is no air. If they have floating ability like Overlords ok, but Mutalisk seem to fly not float.

[AKPhilosopher]

If we take hit points to be an aggregate of almost all factors, then a medic is able to deal with open wounds, pain, morale, and many incapacitating injuries so that even if a marine's armour deteriorates, their health is still 40 as they're more resistance to incapacitation after being healed (with a lot of drugs no doubt) than a marine that has been neither injured nor healed.

Mutalisks definitely can not fly in space. Lift simply does not work.

[BlackMagister]

Well 1 hp marines do the same dmg and move just as good as full hp marines which is why the two theories Cholera said were suggested. If they are taking actual wounds they should not be able to function as well as another marine at full health. Which is why I think the hp thing is actual wounds they Blizzard just choose not the realism of units performance affected by health.

Also Mutalisk can fly in space, the space maps for example and the SC1 third Zerg cinematic worm hole travel sequence.

[AKPhilosopher]

Ah but with the right drugs (natural and otherwise) any wound that doesn't either incapacitate or directly interfere with functionality (e.g. severed tendon) will not affect speed or damage output in the short term. Those terran marines are jacked up on all kinds of crazy ()*%# o_O

By not being able to fly in space, I simply mean in terms of physics; they do fly in space in SC lore but quite impossibly so.

[BlackMagister]

Even with drugs and non lethal being hurt so much that one hit from anything will kill you should hamper performance. To me this whole discussion is just reading a little too much into comparing real life to a game. It's like the question of

"How come Terran units don't run out of ammo or fuel?" It's just something they choose not to put in the game, but I'm sure it exists in the Starcraft universe lore wise and books etc.

[weihoozie]

Come on. Don't take it too seriously, it's like one of those things you'd talk about with your friends while hanging out and bored.

[AKPhilosopher]

A shot from a sniper rifle will deal substantially more damage per hit than assault weapons. Yet sniper rifles tend to be of a lesser caliber (50 cal excepted!); a combination of high velocity and precision make the massive difference. Similar case with hydralisks vs marines. The terran's C-14 impaler is a crude, rapid-fire weapon.

As for the whole hp issue; it's a combination of everything. A unit's luck, fortitude, vulnerability to fatal wounds, armour durability all meshed into one stat.

[AKPhilosopher]

The zerg swarm corrupted the once peaceful herbivores. The hydra muscle structure boasts over 4000 muscles (whereas the terran skeleton has a little over 600), allowing them to fire at high velocity. The spines themselves, stored in the hydra's upper carapace plates, have evolved to pierce the armour and shields faced on a regular basis.

Lastly marines are criminals with a crude, burst-fire weapon. Hydra spines are incredibly accurate; thus on average a hydra spine will deal more damage.

[CJones13]

Please read my comments in reverse order for it to make sense.

[CJones13]

to invest infrastructure on a battleground one would assume it would take much more than a few hundred soldiers skirmishing to warrant investing in all that technology and production in that area.

[CJones13]

applying this to a larger scale, it makes more sense that 200 psi would represent not anywhere up to 400 units (with zerglings) but more like 5,000-10,000 or even more... Think of famous engagements in history... casualty rates in many civil war battles were over 25,000. And if each game is supposed to represent a mini battle, this scale makes more sense. One would especially assume that if a race was investing infrastructure on a battleground that the battle would be ... out of characters.

[CJones13]

I disagree with the second explanation... I would think a bulky slow reaver or ultralisk could dodge less attacks than a zergling...

I like to think of it in either of these two ways:

1.) Either the armor idea mentioned already.

2.) Or think of each individual unit as a small batallion. Ex: one marine is actually 8 marines represented by one icon, each 5 points is a death of a marine in that batallion. Applying this to a larger scale as the game applys to history... out of characters

[thetubeaccount]

no it's not just "dodge" as in, duck and take cover, but it's like, if a bullet hits a reaver's armor at a certain angle, it might not do much or any damage, same for an ultralisk, if a marine shoots it in the tusk, that's not going to stop him from stepping on the marine's face, but if the ultralisk tusk hit's the marine even in the arm, it could cause critical damage

so "dodge" means, the "evasion of damage' not necessarily agility

[CJones13]

I think thats a fair idea.. I suppose that is yet another interpretation... does anyone have a response to my other idea?

[EebstertheGreat]

Yeah, this was brought up by Cholera before. In games like Rome Total War that actually incorporate little batallions instead of units, the strength of the batallion decreases as more units die off, as you would expect. In StarCraft, even a marine with 1hp does full damage. The other two ideas account for this, but they don't account for stim packs and psi storm, which fool them both. Well, hey, we can't expect all the lore to work out nicely, can we?

[RaiKageRyu]

The spines are just that strong... they also shoot with incredible force like from a gun. It's similar to the marine's gauss rifle. The rifle shoots a giant nail akin to a spine.

[boxiness]

How can a hydralisk spine do more damage than a bullet, even though it's not made out of metal like bullets are?

Well, same way birds sometimes destroy airplanes.. It really doesn't matter what a projectile is made out of, the amount of damage it does is directly related to its kinetic energy.

For those of u who know some physics, KE = mv^2/2. in other words kinetic energy is proportional to the speed of the projectile squared.

(ok character limit up, will be continued)

[zlac]

how about "how many shots will your armor deflect before a bullet manage to pierce it"

hmmm... what about stim pack then?:D

hydralisk spines are super spines made of titanium and uranium...:P

take this one: Science vessel is in orbit, how can it see/detect only small area and how can even marines shoot at it?:)

[RegaLSC]

The hydralisk spines are probably poisonous and have a very fast corrosive property that allows them to eat through armor quickly. Against live units the poison kills them, and against metallic units Hydralisks target the vital parts (fuel tank, etc) and kills them that way.