It's a lot cheaper to fight two wars than provide health care. Wars end, health care taxes don't. Was in Canada and it sucked. Rationing and shortages.
What you are missing is do you want the government to provide any service? without the profit motive cost will increase and rationing.
Look at it from a simple example. Big Macs are free from the government. Everyone wants one. How long before chaos and shortages occur? And what if you hate Big Macs?
@Truthpolice9698, your post is truly one of the silliest and most uninformed ones I've read in a long time. You say you were in Canada and it sucked with rationing and shortages. When was that exactly? Sounds like you're just trying to make your opinion more credible by claiming personal experience even though we both know you're lying. First of all, their would have been rationing for you since you need a Medical Insurance card to get service you bozo.
@trader1963 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 ... I like Toronto a lot better than American cities because there are not many high crime areas. I like being around white people. When I am there I watch the debates on television and the subject that dominates are crappy schools and health care shortages. Crappy schools and health care shortages. Crappy schools and health care shortages. Not much else in politics up there.
@CanadianCalabo, yeah, I'll get over myself if you help me. I'm as fit as a fiddle but 2 Saturdays ago I was diagnosed with a blood clot behind my right knee. I was told my 1 day visit at the hospital would cost me between $5,000 - $8,000. To top it all off I need to take medicine costing $1,000 a week or $4,000 a month for the rest of my life. Since I can't afford this I'm going without which, pretty much, makes me a walking timebomb. Yes, the American system is great.
@trader1963 Would you rather pay more than that amount of money in taxes, and instead of getting care, you wait in a room for hours before they tell you you have to wait 6 months for treatment? All the elderly people I know fly down to the states if they need good health care. An HD t.v. is more expensive than a 10 inch black and white television, because it's better. That's how life works. You get what you pay for.
@CanadianCalabo, that's where you're wrong, you DON'T PAY MORE IN TAXES for UHC, it's the opposite. The problem is that you don't care about facts and only regurgitate the myths you hear without verifying them. Healthcare rankings by the WHO as of 2000: 1. France 18. UK 30. Canada 37. USA Life Expectancy 2005-2010: France - 80.7 years Canada - 80.7 UK - 79.4 USA - 78.3 Cost per Capita 2007: USA - $6,096 Canada - $3,173 France - $3,040 UK - $2,560
@trader1963 seriously dude. you're an american. you're reading me facts you got off of the internet, which is always true (sarcasm if you couldn't tell). I've lived the system. It sucks. I've lived in Canada for years, and I moved to the states 8 years ago. The U.S. is flawed, but it is much better than UHC.
@CanadianCalabo, if you don't like my sources then please provide some of your own. To simply say you can't trust anything on the internet is a pretty lame way to respond. I'm a Canadian who now has American Citizenship. I lived in Canada for 39 years and the last 9 in the US. I've used the system in both countries. Another stat: 62% of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical bills..and half of those people HAD health insurance. I have the facts, you have nothing.
@trader1963 what you have are statistics, I could tell you 85% off them are false, but that doesn't prove shit. My friend braking his arm, going to the hospital, and having them tell him he has to wait 6 months to fix his BROKEN ARM is fucked up. They had to amputate it when they finally "got around" to take care of him. Yeah, the U.S. system costs money, but you get what you pay for. Lots of money - fantastic healthcare. Universal healthcare = shit. I speak from experience.
@trader1963 I'm not down. I haven't even mentioned the DEBT that countries with UHC have. Why would Ireland and Britain be so close to bankruptcy? Why would greece need a bailout from the E.U. to survive? fucking socialism, and debt. that's why. Why is the U.S. in so much debt? Because Bush, Obama, and others do not know the meaning of a budget, and debt will kill you in the end.
@trader1963 seriously dude. you're an american. you're reading me facts you got off of the internet, which is always true (sarcasm if you couldn't tell). I've lived the system. It sucks. I've lived in Canada for years, and I moved to the states 8 years ago. The U.S. is flawed, but it is much better than UHC.
First issue I dissagree with this guy on. This seems to be a false dichotomy, No I'm not fine with paying for wars and corporate bailouts and all that, and no I'm not fine with paying the taxes we pay. I think when we look into the money we waste on all of these things, we just can't trust the government to not waste money on healthcare. The way we've been sold that we "need" insurance mixed with the lack of a free market are the reasons our health care costs are high,
I live in Australia. Per capita $US2000 of tax money is used to fund out UHC each year.
In the US per capita $US3000 of tax money is used to fund the private health care industry each year. That doesn't cover the average of an extra $3000 per capita to access this care.
The choice presented here seems to be one or the other; currently, we are attempting to have both. How about neither? We could be fine without them, not to mention the unconstitutionality of universal health care.
Being forced to pay for this program will not get you off the hook for paying for other programs, and it will not cause US hitmen to stop murdering people abroad.
Unless forcing employers at gunpoint to pay for their employees' healthcare somehow renders those employers more inclined towards charity, or those employees drastically more efficient, then that healthcare money must either come out of wages, or increase the cost of labour.
do you guys honestly believe that private health insurance companies are trying to lobby against government health care because they think it's for your own good? it's all about money. these guys makes tons off of you and they don't want the government interfering with their profit margin. the government is probably motivated by money as well. health care is big bucks. government health care works, no doubt about it. private companies are crooks. no doubt about that either.
The fallacy in this argument is that you're assuming it's an "either or" system when it's really an "and also" system. It's about whether you want even more debt in addition to rather than instead of debt that you don't support. However while I disagree with this particular argument I agree with the idea of universal healthcare. Although not the plan recently passed by the senate.
The changed system will result in LESS expense, even if taxes go up to pay for it, and why? Because universal health care is CHEAPER. You will pay a little more to the government, but you will be paying LESS to the insurance companies.
Every nation with universal healthcare has a healthier populace and lower healthcare costs.
Can you read? That's not what I was talking about, I was referring specifically to his argument about what kind of debt we want as a country, maybe you replied to the wrong comment or something on accident.
Government debt, corporate debt, and private debt are all huge burdens in America.
Paying less, AS A WHOLE, for healthcare is going to relieve some of this burden.
It may increase government debt (comparatively slightly) but this shortfall can be made up for by increasing taxes, but less money will be spent on insurance, so in effect people will be paying less, even with higher taxes. The savings are there to be made.
@dangerouslytalented Universal health care is cheaper because of Price Ceilings. Those price ceilings cause funding shortages which results in inadequate care for some who live in countries with UHC.
The people are healthier in Other nations because of the different lifestyles they have. Not the health care system.
And nobody is getting bankrupted, unlike in the US where 60% of all bankruptcies are because of healthcare. Not even including the trouble business like GM have gotten into because they have had to provide healthcare for their employees.
@dangerouslytalented First I will get to your first argument then your second about bankruptices.
With all due respect Australia is nothing like the US in terms of life style. The US is the fattest country in the world( Which I am sure Australia is not #2 or even in the top 10)We have far more murder.lastly we have far more car accidents.
Your LE is better because of things that have nothing to do with health care.
imagine your body is a car. if you properly fix a rusty spot on your car as soon as you see it, it costs you about 50 to 100 Bucks. If you say "uh that probably nothing let's cover it with a little paint" you send about 10 bucks, but it keeps rusting until some intergral parts of the car are getting weakened by the rust. Then you'd have to buy a new car or spend emense amounts of money to get the rusty parts replaced by new ones.
That is the problem in countries without "social" healthcare.
The problem is Health Insurance companies,mask the cost of health care for their customers as a result people don't shop around for better deals and Doctors can charge what ever they want.(They have to if they want to pay back all their loans)
What countries with socialized medicine don't seem to realize is that your lower cost is artificial because of price ceilings.
If socialized medicine worked so well health care cost would not be spiking in Europe.
i live in europe, i am 26 and I'm paying the standardised healcare fee... wanna know how much this "peak" was last year? About ONE dollar per month raise. ... yeah I'm really wondering where i could save that buck...
we have a standardised base-insurace everybody needs but we can get them from different companies who charge different fees (everything quite close together though) and then everyone is free to get aditional packages like alternative medicine or private-insurance.
the healthcare isn't raising much more anywhere else eighter. The trick is that the insurance companys get enought money by small raises because everyone has insurance. And everyone goes to the doctor before it's getting too serious because he has HC. We're not tempted to abuse it because we have something i think it's called "retention per year" in english. So you don't become a hypochondriac eighter. But we're save can send our children to college even if someone gets cancer in the family
@BalthazzarCH "Either" not "eighter"(I am learning a second language too) here is the thing Most of Americans have health insurance either privately or through medicaid. the 47 million who don't are young like myself or illegal.
Second cost diffusion does work well but it does not address the chief reason why health care cost are rising which is a lack of competition between doctors and hospitals.
Well idk the current situation in the US right now. So all i can tell you about is the system i know which - in my opinion - wirks really well.
i think the difference are those 47 Million who don't spend any money on HC if everyone does spend a relatively small amount. it'd would already work.
sure there are people who spend some money every month and never get any serious illness. But there is always someone you know in your life who isn't that lucky.
2/2 ... the major reason for the costs are the greedyness of the private clinics and the pharma industry. Without standards the industry has no limits to charge whatever they want for their medicine. And doctors go to the most expensive private clinics to get the best possible payment. That will change as soon as the medicine gets objectively tested and compared.
idk what america is planning on the private clinics topic though... i don't think they can or will limit them.
Yes if taxes increased to match the spending on health care then there would be no issue and if properly implemented it would be significantly less expensive in the long run.
But the point I was making is that the taxes won't increase in proportion to the spending. Politicians know that if they increase your taxes you won't vote for them. That's why we keep spending money we don't have instead of paying for our lifestyle. Why would it be different with healthcare?
I hate to keep ringing that old bell of 'intolerance' but we have to black all foreign access to this country, start a reverse immigration policy and bring our jobs back home.
When every citizen isn't displaced by outsourced jabs and insourced cheap labor and goods we will be able to afford a better infrastructure and universal care.
Provided we develop a better energy policy and reform our military and justice system
It's a big ol' game of Simnation people, advocate your resources correctly
I don't think we should have a "HEALTH CARE" reform shit nothing is broken. You can't fix something that isn't broke. Believe me I don't believe people should get TREATED if they have a pre-existing condition just let them pass away it's their fault for having a pre-existing condition in the first place! Who cares if half of America goes bankrupt because they can't afford it. You people should get three jobs or something and if there are no jobs available figure out something else come on ppl.
Death and Taxes. The only two things in life that are absolutely certain.
I want mine to go towards hearing aides for all the people who turned the comments section into an argument over something somewhat related to this video.
The Federal Government's role in the regulation of medical care should be restricted to the ensuring of standard weights and measurements as they relate to medical devices and pharmaceuticals, ensuring that standards of quality, potency, and purity are enforced, and that no false claims are made as to the usefulness, safety and efficacy of the drugs or devices.
Your argument of where taxes are going has no relevance to the debate.
i'd ratherit be usedto inade contries and stop medeling with U.S intrest. I've lived in a socialized healthcare system, it isn't as good as itis here.
there is the more libertarian view which ron paul represented, which is pay for neither. im not saying i agree, as im pro universal coverage, but that is another option.
I enjoyed this vid. I appreciate your view. BUT. This is the first time I have found tyour point to be truly flawed through and through.
It's not only that you will pay taxes. It's where it is going (as you stated) but more importantly HOW MUCH. As it stands now I am of the opinion we pay enough from top to bottom.
I think they should eliminate wasteful or not-needed programs and/or wars and funs it that way. 21 Trillion dollars over 10 years?
It just astounds me that you even need to have a debate on this. It's a no brainer. Americans are always trying to trump each other by showing how patriotic they are yet are unwilling to look after their fellow countrymen.
Sorry, I don't agree with choose this to spend your taxes on or that. It's this in addition to that. Initially, universal healthcare seems good for the people. If it's so good, why are they currently voting into law that if you are uninsured, and choose none of the 3 government program choices, you get like a $2500 fine & if not paid, you go to prison? Granted, I doubt mainstream as well as web info, my wife heard this on CNN. This sounds like communism or something similar, not the U.S.A.
Well said. it is a matter of priorities. I rather pay taxes to keep them here at home. so one wonders if Republicans love sending their tax money for the high cost of invasions, weapons, the collateral cost that is in calculatable.
Like pro-lifers...advocate for life....but I guess an Iraqui is not a life? an Afgan?
Are they all just collateral?
I agree...it is a matter of priorities.
If I had magic powers I would make each American travel and live abroad for a while as a requisite.
Once those 700000 (Seven Hundred Thousand) people a year Stop going bankrupt in the US because of healthcare, Americans will realize how great universal healthcare really is.
I don't think people realize just how absolutely atrocious healthcare and healthcare bills are in the US. (Mostly the people who've never had to health problems, lol) Outside of very rich people, almost no one can afford heathcare in the US right now. Think about it.
Military benefits society assuming its ran correctly, just like anything else.
As for conquering people, it depends on what side your looking at. Ethically your destoying something differant then you and turning it into something known that you can then either make it do what you want it to, or to make up for the evil of destroying them you turn them into something you can reason with and get along with...so they and ideally you will both prosper.
Two good points, but not the best argument. Yes, the government spends money on things we don't want it to (two wrongs don't make a right though). Yes, taxes aren't going to go away (I wish more people would understand this--taxes are often a way to get people to pay for something they agree with in general but otherwise wouldn't pay for day to day, and get it at a better price... police, fire dept, libraries, schools, etc. underfunded and then they say government doesn't work well).
Please protean, teach us more about Blackstone and Northrop, I know enough to hold my own on Haliburton, but these others are foriegn to I, so whenever they come up in a whim of yours, please do press the record button,
Mattschol, just wondering, would you mind put an extra few dollars a day into a bank in order to help your neighbor to recover from an attempt on her life by cancer?
sure, but that's not what universal healthcare is. For instances, if my neighbor smokes and gets lung cancer, i may give, but ill be a lil less generous than if some woman got breast cancer. Your scenario is a choice, taxes is compulsory.
The bill that passed the house is really pretty bad. From the little I know about it the Republican bill is a lot better since it includes tort reform and lets people buy across state lines.
That plan would cost something like $66 billion over 10 years and the CBO says it would reduce the cost of insurance - none of those provisions are in the Democrat's bill, which is a monstrous 2000 page bill with god knows what in it.
Its not about taxes, its about choices. Its about privacy and your security of whether or not you are comfortable with our corrupt government having an open door to your lifestyle, lifeline, statistics and socialism. Universal healthcare is opening a door that we may regret. I am not all that worried about on the large scale of things, we will topple financially before my problems with socialized medicine become a battle I need to fight.
here is what iread on Holland's health care. It is a social health care system run by private health insurance providers who are not allowed to decline anyone no matter what their physical condition and are compensated for doing so. So in truth, everyone in Holland pays the same amount for health care. We STILL pay more over here for it, and A LOT more people here are uninsured. For most people it is an Anti-obama or Pro-obama fight. They need to look at the bill and not the person.
I'd probably be 6-Feet-Under if it weren't for Privatized Health Care.. I wouldn't have been able to risk waiting around to get care that I needed which is what you hear happening all the time with Public Health Care. Doesn't Canada's Public Helath Care system go bankrupt almost every year? And they have 1/10th the population we do......(U.S.)
trouble is I have lived in the uk and australia both of whom have socialized systems, australia works better, the UK has problems like varied care depending on where you live and long waiting lists for life threatening conditions. I have insurance thru my job and thecare I get now is the best I have ever received in my life.
I agree Norway's system works for Norway but that is not due to coverage alone. It has to also do with diet, stress levels, transportation, location, level of pollution thousands of factors that the US is plagued with. Violence etc..
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am glad that you put it in such simple terms. I have always had the mind set that if I am going to be paying taxes, that I want to see something come from it. Since I am in the income class that pays the highest percentage of taxes, I want a public option. Please see some of my videos of why I want a public option.
Every civilized country in the world has universal health care...that is a fact....those of you who espouse the current system are drones for corporate control and dehumanization...those of you who disagree need to spend an hour looking at global statistics...Health care in the US now ranks far behind most European and many Latin American countries....This is because insurance and pharmaceutical companies maintain a stranglehold on rational and compassionate healthcare....Thanks proteanview!
I disagree with proteanview's premise that since we're just going to be paying taxes anyway, we may as well get government-subsidized healthcare in the deal. The question is, how much will we pay in taxes? Taxes don't have to be as high as they currently are.
Also, we don't have to choose between funding healthcare or an unconstitutional war. There is a third option: fund neither.
taxing, healthcare, and spending dont matter much to anybody really. its actually evangelical christianity, i think cathlics and born agains, and white supremicy that are causing such intense anger, fear, and opposition. please address these issues pview.
obama is not a bigot like some christians (he does not hate muslims and nonbelievers) so they suppose that he is cursed. their leaders sleep with young boys and prostitutes and they claim that god ispired them (catholic priest, swaggart)
protean, you are wrong on many points here. First, you assume if health care passes, obama will not ALSO do nation building. also, it seems that you have given up hope of spending within means and being financially responsible, you just assume corruption which may be realistic, but is not the only view to take.
yup couldn't agree more UHC but not Obama's plan from what I hear and can quite frankly expect from this administration, more planned redistribution of wealth! WE HAVE A ROUGE GOVERNMENT PEOPLE!!!
Don't let them vote for you. vote with your heart on what you know is right. Americans keep believing the act and we are worse and worse, this is the correlation. How much of the propaganda you will believe they try to shovel down your throat.
The reason I don't support universal healthcare is not because of the taxes, it is because of the detriment that it will impose upon our health care system now.
what exactly is the "detriment" that universal health care will impose upon our system? every so-called first world country and many others that are less economically abundant than the US have health care systems are justly rated by the World Health Organization (WHO) as better systems...It is fact that insurance and pharmaceutical companies are only feeding their bottom lines and in the process obliterating good health care for the people....Pure propaganda is maintaining the status quo...
While in overall health care, countries like the UK, Canada, France, etc. may be ranked higher by the WHO, but its for one big factor. That factor is the availability of health care in those countries is available to everyone. However, in terms of care responsiveness (the unit we designate to the effectiveness of health care), the United States is BY FAR the best. Since businesses can make a profit here, they can invest in new tech advancing medical science. This will change with Obamacare.
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[15][16] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[17]
For one, cost needs to be thrown out since countries with socialized medicine have price caps on their health care (this is like comparing apples to oranges). Secondly, the reason the United States may be so low in health care quality (ie. why our health care may be rated below ohter countries across the board) is because some Americans don't have health insurance. Look up the statistics for mortality rates for patients w/cancer, heart disease, etc. and you will find that the US at the top.
thanks for the response, but I feel like you are making the same argument I am...Just because certain aspects of our system are great don't make the system great...interestingly, poor diet, high cholesterol, heart disease, are most prevalent amongst the poorest in this country (who often dont have health insurance)...So much for responsiveness, also those who dont have health care have no preventative medicine, hence they are only in the hospital when on death's door knob. what is the detriment?
In other words, yes, if everyone in this county had access to health care we may be the best or close to it.....but, thats not the playing field we are dealing with...as it is the insurance and pharma companies have a stranglehold on doctors and the type and quality of care that they give. .my girlfriend is a doctor and she and many of her peers feel this way. also, 60% of bankruptcy in this country is due to medical debt...what is the detriment?
In Sept, 2009, the highly esteemed New England journal of medicine published a study, done by independent researchers, which concluded after over 2000 doctors were interviewed that 73% support single-payer public health care...thats right, almost 3/4 of all doctors in this country support public health care! the vast majority of support and arguments for the current system are the direct results of corporate propaganda, where money is the bottom line...Not quality health care...
your premise of your going to pay taxes is erred. it is still possible to legally avoid paying tax in the united states. and this is not socialized medicine comparable to western europe. read the bill. it is an unprecedented and unconstitutional mandate by the government to buy insurance either from a private company or the government. you have a poor understanding on this subject matter.
Um, DonPaulPro, we're FORCED to have car insurance. Why? To protect other people. Why would we be FORCED to get insurance? To protect yourself. And don't give me that bullshit about "freedom! I don't think that I should have to have it!" That's bullshit, and you know it.
I have a choice whether I want to own and drive a car. This choice will determine whether I have insurance. The gov will force me to buy insurance cause im American! Basic care should be affordable. The reason why doctors, clinics and hospitals charge such ungodly (and criminal) fees for their service is because of HMOs and insurance. I believe that all insurance is a ponzi scheme fraud. If thats the world you want, more power to you. i do prefer my freedom and liberty.
The car thing is moot, because most of the time we MUST drive to work. Second, is the insurance in Great Britain a ponzi scheme? No, it's not. We pay for something, we get something back. And freedom and liberty with WHAT? Just so you don't have to pay money? Like PV said, you're going to pay taxes. Why not use some of that money to make sure that you're healthy?
The nature of the Ponzi scheme is revealed when everyone claims their "something" at the same time. This is when the system implodes and rationing occurs. Hence, why the so-called "death panels" is a plausible consequence of government health care. It's happened before and it starts when smart liberal people start writing about who is useful to society and who is not...
Sorry, but failure. Canada doesn't have those problems. Neither does Germany. Or France. You act as if people are going to "fake" being sick, and we'll all have to sacrifice healthcare (like a lot of people are doing today). And okay: since you have the answers, how do we solve the problem? There IS a problem, and we need to fix it.
Looking at you youtube page, Im really surprised you have so much faith in government. You present yourself as being rather intelligent. The nation of Great Britain is bankrupt, the population is growing more obese, their democracy has died, etc. Have you been to western Europe? It sucks and it is fascist. If you love it so much, move there! The best health comes from people taking responsibility for their own lives. Not sitting in line waiting for the next government bailout/handout.
is europe fascist? have you been to western europe? you have no clue what you are talking about and are just buying into what you are told... europe are generally more left wing not right where fascism resides, fx here in Denmark our liberals are our right wing party
Does anyone know or have any links to statistics involving mental health care in a socialized health care format? I would like to know how those with depression, schizophrenia etc get along in a social plan.
it removes gender discrimination and denial based on pre-existing conditions, but does nothing to lower the rates of those who are deemed such besides nationalizing the industry, which benefits the largest insurers.
this healthcare bill was written by the health insurance industry, cuts public healthcare options (like medicare), and forces people to pay health insurance companies thousands of dollars or go to jail. the bill provides good options for the poor or unemployed, but for everyone else, this nationalizes the health insurance industry, cuts seniors DRAMATICALLY, and does nothing to lower premiums, copays, etc. and provides no emergency options to prevent bankrupcies.
It's not about taxes...is about paying "more" taxes...
Sigh, why does no one see that taxing people for something they wont use is a form of "slavery"?
Not getting paid for the work we are doing, since you are taking the money and giving it to some one else. You're giving the profit we try to get, to some one else.
But it's perfectly fine to those getting something. They don't care if they screw others over. They are perfectly fine passing on their misery to others.
this makes me want to unsubscribe for the first time. no one knows what is in the bill? it's online. you can read. it's broken down into sections where you can locate pertinent information - it's not like you need to read the full 2k pages. that's just laziness - as is saying nothing passes these days unless it makes someone richer. that is a generalization, not factual, and based again, on intellectual laziness. also, the healthcare bill does nothing towards universal healthcare at all. read it
That bailout bill was passed while Bush was still in office. Obama is doling it out because he is legally obligated to as chief executor. Had he been president beforehand, he just might have vetoed it. Come to think of it, check to see if he voted for that bill in the first place.
I live in canada and we have free healthcare. If we go to the states for any healthcare we do have to pay for it. Our healthcare system is for anything doctor related. things like teeth, glasses, ambulance, medication and procedures not covered by health care usually are looked after by blue cross which is not free you pay monthly to it but it starts at about 80 dollars. which gives you 80% covered. Every one is intitled to the healthcare. we are healther with it and its great for emergencys.
The tea baggers are easily led fools who want the following: their god, their gun and no gay marriage. They cannot understand that they will pay taxes till they die. simple.
The tea baggers point to the national debt and toxic assets and you belittle them by saying they fear God. You ignore the fact of debt and point to what you think are their weaknesses, which are infact their strengths.
unfortunately i think we will pay for healthcare ON TOP OF all the other bailouts and aid programs you mentioned, proteanview.i will grant you that a health program is a better way to spend these dollars.
How did people get health care 100 years ago...Hmm.. from a local doc who wasn't regulated to death.
There used to be hospitals that were run by charity..now most are gone due to the big business of health care.
Where is all of this money going to come from to fund it all....you can only get so much from a cow until the milk runs dry.
At least there will be more jobs in the next few years....Prison guards will be in demand to keep an eye on those who are in jail for failure to buy the plan
Our government got involved with prescription pills back in the 70's, and look where we are now....wait a minute, we pay more than anyone else in the world.
Well, what about Medicaid and Medicare...wait a minute. These programs have driven up the price of healthcare and are bankrupting our nation.
You know what really funny? Told my girlfriend this weekend. Go up to anyone on the street and ask them who Dmitry Medvedev is or Kim Jong Il. Chances are most Americans will not know, but if you ask them who Micheal Jackson is they all certainly will know.
Ask the typical American what "the tribe has spoken" and they will prolly know. UNBELIEVABLE. We are so consumed with BULLS%$!.
unfortunately socialized health care does not work well. However I do agree that we should be spending our taxes on things that benefit us, the people who pay them
@chasmikalmikals Actually it can work and does in other countries if you look. Better yet travel to once you get the chance. If you have a closed mind to all solutions you wont find it, obviously. People say their absolute is the way when middle ground is better. But people see that as evil. Heaven forbid people discuss and comprise.
I love the talking point that universal health care costs too much when the UK is currently spending nearly half of what America is and getting better results.
dude come on you're usually better than this. The truth of the matter is you'll pay taxes no matter what (unless you have zero income) but the truth is also that you have no real choice in where said tax money goes.
What if we did? There should be a card that lets you check three things that you don't allow your tax money to be used for. If i ever go into politics, i'll try to do that.
It is but you have to ask yourself "Who is going to cover the extra cost?" When companies know the govt. is essentially paying for something, prices always go up. This isn't guessed, this is fact. Look anywhere you'd like at any govt. program.
For the short term it's good, it works but down the line is when the trouble comes into play. Where costs rise, quality declines ( because companies abuse more because govt. isn't too great at keeping an eye on things ) and so forth =I
OK. Where are you getting this from? It's a huge assumption you're making. What do you mean extra costs will accumulate? That's already happening under the current privatised healthcare system. There are layers of corporate democracies that doctors have to work through. We can't have UHC right away but I think we need to start moving in that direction. Costs for healthcare shouldn't be rising. It doesn't make sense. YOu can't blame this on R&D as we subsidize that. doesn't explain the high costs
Our healthcare system is not completely private....
The last time that healthcare was completely free market, you could get healthcare for $1-2.
With the retarded regulations and subsidies and barriers to entry, the government has aided a small group of corporation get a monopoly on the healthcare. with this government-enforced monopoly, these few people are able to charge a high price because their is no competition that charges a lower price.
First of all the U.S. can't afford anything. That's why we borrow from China and the Federal Reserve. Second of all if your point is that because tax money goes to companys like Haliburton means we can have socialized healthcare then you're just an idiot.
Also, the defense budget constitutes a mere 20% of our budget. Medicare/Medicaid cost over 40% and this is excluding social security. Slashing defense budget (which I'm for by the way) would only bring the margin to 15%. And when you consider Pelosi's Marxist bill entails 1.2 trillion, saying defense appropriations will pay for healthcare is foolish.
Also, considering that all gov't social programs have a record of costing 2-3 times their estimated costs, the bill will cost around 3 trillion.
"For the 2009 fiscal year, the base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $518.3 billion. Adding emergency discretionary spending, supplemental spending, and stimulus spending brings the sum to $651.2 billion.[1][2] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $274 billion and $493 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $925 billion and $1.14 trillion in 2009"
Even if all DoD expenditures, internal or external, are removed, you still won't cover healthcare. Have you forgotten the bailouts and stimulus bills. Early projections put the estimated costs of the totality roughly 15-22 trillion USD. That's essentially twice our GDP, something we will never be able to pay back. Considering all this, you can just kiss the trade equilibrium goodbye.
Thanks for the last bit there. I listed no solution because our debate entailed the relative costs and their causal relationship with trade agreements. It was a different topic.
Universal Healthcare can bring america out of debt. Without fair and balanced trade agreements, none of this matters. You still have a country going into a trillion dollar trade debt, each and every year. In theory, removing the burden of healthcare cost from the employer, reduces the cost of american products, but without fair trade agreements, it hardly matter if our products are the cheapest in the world, or the most expensive. The US has had a trade deficit for 36 yrs straight
I love how you think universal healthcare is the solution for everything. It's not going to bring us out of debt. It's a 1.2 trillion dollar measure. Something on that large scale can only be funded either by borrowing more money from East Asian banks (aggravating the trade deficit problem) or taxing the very employers whose product costs you claim to want decreased. This is ridiculous seeing as a 5.4% tax surcharge in a recession is inviting failure.
I love how you completely ignore what i told you that real problem is, unbalanced trade agreements. Universal healthcare could help make US products more affordable. But again sir, nothing maters without balanced trade agreements. Like I said, it doesn't matter if our products are the cheapest oin the world, or the most expensive.
Trade agreements are facilitated by gov'ts, not markets (markets only influence their dynamics). Balancing trade agreements in favor of the U.S. is something we agree on. I just don't buy your notion of universal healthcare + fair trade= lower debt.
To pay for the massive healthcare bill, you have tax. Great, now businesses don't pay for healthcare directly but rather through taxation. Products will vary insignificantly, not enough to overturn the trade deficit.
Either way trade must be balanced. We go into deeper debt from unbalanced trade each and every year, it;s up to one trillion annually right now, on top of what we already owe
I should've expanded upon employer-healthcare stance.
Your employer should subsidize your insurance. This way he or she still pays for the employees healthcare, but the employee is free to choose his or her policy, driving up competition; naturally, given the state-sanctioned monopolies are removed, prices will go down.
Having your employer pay for your healthcare, your picky choosy healthcare, has priced american products out of the market. Of course not that any politician is pushing for fair and balanced trade anyway. But by removing the burden of health care cost from your employer would reduce the cost of american products. We owe 4 trillion now to foreign central exchange banks, we're buying up the world's resources and labor with a paper debt,
It's a case of common sense vs idiocy. Nothing more. The US has privatised healthcare yet still ranks a lowly 38th in comparison to other countries. Whereas countries like Canada and the UK rank higher yet their healthcare is run by the government. It's simple, no?
Even in countries that have universal health care like in Canada, the health care isn't exactly free. People still need to pay for dental and vision care. the health care is mostly paid for through taxes.
I never will understand why we can fund these wars in OTHER COUNTRIES and can't spend that money at home. Opponents are talking about how much it's gonna cost. It won't cost lives!
War or health ??? ..............we support the wrong stuff most of the time !...Finally we are going to spend the money on the right thing to secure our nation's health !!..with respect!
It's a lot cheaper to fight two wars than provide health care. Wars end, health care taxes don't. Was in Canada and it sucked. Rationing and shortages.
What you are missing is do you want the government to provide any service? without the profit motive cost will increase and rationing.
Look at it from a simple example. Big Macs are free from the government. Everyone wants one. How long before chaos and shortages occur? And what if you hate Big Macs?
At least your thinking.
Truthpolice9698 2 years ago
@Truthpolice9698, your post is truly one of the silliest and most uninformed ones I've read in a long time. You say you were in Canada and it sucked with rationing and shortages. When was that exactly? Sounds like you're just trying to make your opinion more credible by claiming personal experience even though we both know you're lying. First of all, their would have been rationing for you since you need a Medical Insurance card to get service you bozo.
trader1963 1 year ago
@trader1963 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 ... I like Toronto a lot better than American cities because there are not many high crime areas. I like being around white people. When I am there I watch the debates on television and the subject that dominates are crappy schools and health care shortages. Crappy schools and health care shortages. Crappy schools and health care shortages. Not much else in politics up there.
Truthpolice9698 1 year ago
@Truthpolice9698 yep.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
@trader1963 No, he's right. UHC sucks. get over yourself.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
@CanadianCalabo, yeah, I'll get over myself if you help me. I'm as fit as a fiddle but 2 Saturdays ago I was diagnosed with a blood clot behind my right knee. I was told my 1 day visit at the hospital would cost me between $5,000 - $8,000. To top it all off I need to take medicine costing $1,000 a week or $4,000 a month for the rest of my life. Since I can't afford this I'm going without which, pretty much, makes me a walking timebomb. Yes, the American system is great.
trader1963 1 year ago
@trader1963 Would you rather pay more than that amount of money in taxes, and instead of getting care, you wait in a room for hours before they tell you you have to wait 6 months for treatment? All the elderly people I know fly down to the states if they need good health care. An HD t.v. is more expensive than a 10 inch black and white television, because it's better. That's how life works. You get what you pay for.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
trader1963 1 year ago
@trader1963 seriously dude. you're an american. you're reading me facts you got off of the internet, which is always true (sarcasm if you couldn't tell). I've lived the system. It sucks. I've lived in Canada for years, and I moved to the states 8 years ago. The U.S. is flawed, but it is much better than UHC.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
@CanadianCalabo, if you don't like my sources then please provide some of your own. To simply say you can't trust anything on the internet is a pretty lame way to respond. I'm a Canadian who now has American Citizenship. I lived in Canada for 39 years and the last 9 in the US. I've used the system in both countries. Another stat: 62% of all bankruptcies in the US are caused by medical bills..and half of those people HAD health insurance. I have the facts, you have nothing.
trader1963 1 year ago
@trader1963 what you have are statistics, I could tell you 85% off them are false, but that doesn't prove shit. My friend braking his arm, going to the hospital, and having them tell him he has to wait 6 months to fix his BROKEN ARM is fucked up. They had to amputate it when they finally "got around" to take care of him. Yeah, the U.S. system costs money, but you get what you pay for. Lots of money - fantastic healthcare. Universal healthcare = shit. I speak from experience.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
@trader1963 I'm not down. I haven't even mentioned the DEBT that countries with UHC have. Why would Ireland and Britain be so close to bankruptcy? Why would greece need a bailout from the E.U. to survive? fucking socialism, and debt. that's why. Why is the U.S. in so much debt? Because Bush, Obama, and others do not know the meaning of a budget, and debt will kill you in the end.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@trader1963 seriously dude. you're an american. you're reading me facts you got off of the internet, which is always true (sarcasm if you couldn't tell). I've lived the system. It sucks. I've lived in Canada for years, and I moved to the states 8 years ago. The U.S. is flawed, but it is much better than UHC.
CanadianCalabo 1 year ago
First issue I dissagree with this guy on. This seems to be a false dichotomy, No I'm not fine with paying for wars and corporate bailouts and all that, and no I'm not fine with paying the taxes we pay. I think when we look into the money we waste on all of these things, we just can't trust the government to not waste money on healthcare. The way we've been sold that we "need" insurance mixed with the lack of a free market are the reasons our health care costs are high,
pthompson2010 2 years ago
I live in Australia. Per capita $US2000 of tax money is used to fund out UHC each year.
In the US per capita $US3000 of tax money is used to fund the private health care industry each year. That doesn't cover the average of an extra $3000 per capita to access this care.
Why are Americans paying more taxes to get less?
EssentialPedagogy 2 years ago
Comment removed
sleepindawg303 2 years ago
Kill the 3000 pg Illlegal HC TAX & JAIL TrojanHorse Mandate bill nobody wants..
Kill the bill...
Vote em out..
nobody wants it..
hadenufnow 2 years ago
"unless you're just political hacks" :D zing!
rentedhalo 2 years ago
The choice presented here seems to be one or the other; currently, we are attempting to have both. How about neither? We could be fine without them, not to mention the unconstitutionality of universal health care.
jcfan42 2 years ago
You appear to be confused on a couple of points.
Being forced to pay for this program will not get you off the hook for paying for other programs, and it will not cause US hitmen to stop murdering people abroad.
Unless forcing employers at gunpoint to pay for their employees' healthcare somehow renders those employers more inclined towards charity, or those employees drastically more efficient, then that healthcare money must either come out of wages, or increase the cost of labour.
PanzerDivisionBOM 2 years ago
do you guys honestly believe that private health insurance companies are trying to lobby against government health care because they think it's for your own good? it's all about money. these guys makes tons off of you and they don't want the government interfering with their profit margin. the government is probably motivated by money as well. health care is big bucks. government health care works, no doubt about it. private companies are crooks. no doubt about that either.
therealdjspiff 2 years ago
As always, very perceptive and clearsighted. :)
andreasrylander 2 years ago
The fallacy in this argument is that you're assuming it's an "either or" system when it's really an "and also" system. It's about whether you want even more debt in addition to rather than instead of debt that you don't support. However while I disagree with this particular argument I agree with the idea of universal healthcare. Although not the plan recently passed by the senate.
JaktheAtheist 2 years ago
The changed system will result in LESS expense, even if taxes go up to pay for it, and why? Because universal health care is CHEAPER. You will pay a little more to the government, but you will be paying LESS to the insurance companies.
Every nation with universal healthcare has a healthier populace and lower healthcare costs.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
Can you read? That's not what I was talking about, I was referring specifically to his argument about what kind of debt we want as a country, maybe you replied to the wrong comment or something on accident.
JaktheAtheist 2 years ago
Government debt, corporate debt, and private debt are all huge burdens in America.
Paying less, AS A WHOLE, for healthcare is going to relieve some of this burden.
It may increase government debt (comparatively slightly) but this shortfall can be made up for by increasing taxes, but less money will be spent on insurance, so in effect people will be paying less, even with higher taxes. The savings are there to be made.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
@dangerouslytalented Universal health care is cheaper because of Price Ceilings. Those price ceilings cause funding shortages which results in inadequate care for some who live in countries with UHC.
The people are healthier in Other nations because of the different lifestyles they have. Not the health care system.
djslay34982 2 years ago
Australians have similar lifestyles to Americans.
Australians have better life expectancies.
Our healthcare is not inadequate.
And nobody is getting bankrupted, unlike in the US where 60% of all bankruptcies are because of healthcare. Not even including the trouble business like GM have gotten into because they have had to provide healthcare for their employees.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
@dangerouslytalented First I will get to your first argument then your second about bankruptices.
With all due respect Australia is nothing like the US in terms of life style. The US is the fattest country in the world( Which I am sure Australia is not #2 or even in the top 10)We have far more murder.lastly we have far more car accidents.
Your LE is better because of things that have nothing to do with health care.
djslay34982 2 years ago
imagine your body is a car. if you properly fix a rusty spot on your car as soon as you see it, it costs you about 50 to 100 Bucks. If you say "uh that probably nothing let's cover it with a little paint" you send about 10 bucks, but it keeps rusting until some intergral parts of the car are getting weakened by the rust. Then you'd have to buy a new car or spend emense amounts of money to get the rusty parts replaced by new ones.
That is the problem in countries without "social" healthcare.
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
@BalthazzarCH .
The problem is Health Insurance companies,mask the cost of health care for their customers as a result people don't shop around for better deals and Doctors can charge what ever they want.(They have to if they want to pay back all their loans)
What countries with socialized medicine don't seem to realize is that your lower cost is artificial because of price ceilings.
If socialized medicine worked so well health care cost would not be spiking in Europe.
djslay34982 2 years ago
i live in europe, i am 26 and I'm paying the standardised healcare fee... wanna know how much this "peak" was last year? About ONE dollar per month raise. ... yeah I'm really wondering where i could save that buck...
we have a standardised base-insurace everybody needs but we can get them from different companies who charge different fees (everything quite close together though) and then everyone is free to get aditional packages like alternative medicine or private-insurance.
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
@BalthazzarCH I knew you had to be from Switzerland I was thinking if we had to get UHC it should be modeled after your country's plan.
However the Swiss plan still has only made marginal gains to curb the rising cost of health care. Health care cost are still on the rise.
What we need is to get rid of health insurance companies and Government funded HC and let consumers drive down the cost of Health care.
djslay34982 2 years ago
the healthcare isn't raising much more anywhere else eighter. The trick is that the insurance companys get enought money by small raises because everyone has insurance. And everyone goes to the doctor before it's getting too serious because he has HC. We're not tempted to abuse it because we have something i think it's called "retention per year" in english. So you don't become a hypochondriac eighter. But we're save can send our children to college even if someone gets cancer in the family
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
@BalthazzarCH "Either" not "eighter"(I am learning a second language too) here is the thing Most of Americans have health insurance either privately or through medicaid. the 47 million who don't are young like myself or illegal.
Second cost diffusion does work well but it does not address the chief reason why health care cost are rising which is a lack of competition between doctors and hospitals.
djslay34982 2 years ago
whops, sorry on that mistake..
Well idk the current situation in the US right now. So all i can tell you about is the system i know which - in my opinion - wirks really well.
i think the difference are those 47 Million who don't spend any money on HC if everyone does spend a relatively small amount. it'd would already work.
sure there are people who spend some money every month and never get any serious illness. But there is always someone you know in your life who isn't that lucky.
1/2...
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
2/2 ... the major reason for the costs are the greedyness of the private clinics and the pharma industry. Without standards the industry has no limits to charge whatever they want for their medicine. And doctors go to the most expensive private clinics to get the best possible payment. That will change as soon as the medicine gets objectively tested and compared.
idk what america is planning on the private clinics topic though... i don't think they can or will limit them.
BalthazzarCH 2 years ago
@djslay34982 ... as opposed to no health care for many who ACTUALLY PAID FOR IT, like in the US?
There is a private option in those countries, and the private option is STILL far cheaper than the American system.
dangerouslytalented 1 year ago
Yes if taxes increased to match the spending on health care then there would be no issue and if properly implemented it would be significantly less expensive in the long run.
But the point I was making is that the taxes won't increase in proportion to the spending. Politicians know that if they increase your taxes you won't vote for them. That's why we keep spending money we don't have instead of paying for our lifestyle. Why would it be different with healthcare?
JaktheAtheist 1 year ago
@JaktheAtheist Paying a little extra tax vs paying a lot more for your healthcare.....
dangerouslytalented 1 year ago
I hate to keep ringing that old bell of 'intolerance' but we have to black all foreign access to this country, start a reverse immigration policy and bring our jobs back home.
When every citizen isn't displaced by outsourced jabs and insourced cheap labor and goods we will be able to afford a better infrastructure and universal care.
Provided we develop a better energy policy and reform our military and justice system
It's a big ol' game of Simnation people, advocate your resources correctly
Curas1 2 years ago
Oh sorry I meant block , oops!
Curas1 2 years ago
I don't think we should have a "HEALTH CARE" reform shit nothing is broken. You can't fix something that isn't broke. Believe me I don't believe people should get TREATED if they have a pre-existing condition just let them pass away it's their fault for having a pre-existing condition in the first place! Who cares if half of America goes bankrupt because they can't afford it. You people should get three jobs or something and if there are no jobs available figure out something else come on ppl.
kingster1978 2 years ago
Death and Taxes. The only two things in life that are absolutely certain.
I want mine to go towards hearing aides for all the people who turned the comments section into an argument over something somewhat related to this video.
nishbrown 2 years ago
The Federal Government's role in the regulation of medical care should be restricted to the ensuring of standard weights and measurements as they relate to medical devices and pharmaceuticals, ensuring that standards of quality, potency, and purity are enforced, and that no false claims are made as to the usefulness, safety and efficacy of the drugs or devices.
Your argument of where taxes are going has no relevance to the debate.
northpal2 2 years ago
But we can't afford.
Just wait till the whole cap n trade bill gets passed. Screw health care, it's nothing. Health care isn't a hoax, it's needed but to what extent.
Cap n Trade will kill America with it's taxing and job loss. All based on a un-proven theory.
Anyone who has read or even watched it be talked about understands it has no merit.
1oct1 2 years ago
i'd ratherit be usedto inade contries and stop medeling with U.S intrest. I've lived in a socialized healthcare system, it isn't as good as itis here.
kubaniski 2 years ago
there is the more libertarian view which ron paul represented, which is pay for neither. im not saying i agree, as im pro universal coverage, but that is another option.
talktal 2 years ago
Protean,
I enjoyed this vid. I appreciate your view. BUT. This is the first time I have found tyour point to be truly flawed through and through.
It's not only that you will pay taxes. It's where it is going (as you stated) but more importantly HOW MUCH. As it stands now I am of the opinion we pay enough from top to bottom.
I think they should eliminate wasteful or not-needed programs and/or wars and funs it that way. 21 Trillion dollars over 10 years?
C'mon Ed, where does it end?
ReverendAtomSmasher 2 years ago
It just astounds me that you even need to have a debate on this. It's a no brainer. Americans are always trying to trump each other by showing how patriotic they are yet are unwilling to look after their fellow countrymen.
gg0u41bb 2 years ago 2
Sorry, I don't agree with choose this to spend your taxes on or that. It's this in addition to that. Initially, universal healthcare seems good for the people. If it's so good, why are they currently voting into law that if you are uninsured, and choose none of the 3 government program choices, you get like a $2500 fine & if not paid, you go to prison? Granted, I doubt mainstream as well as web info, my wife heard this on CNN. This sounds like communism or something similar, not the U.S.A.
Crzykjn 2 years ago
Comment removed
seamus2k8 2 years ago 2
Well said. it is a matter of priorities. I rather pay taxes to keep them here at home. so one wonders if Republicans love sending their tax money for the high cost of invasions, weapons, the collateral cost that is in calculatable.
Like pro-lifers...advocate for life....but I guess an Iraqui is not a life? an Afgan?
Are they all just collateral?
I agree...it is a matter of priorities.
If I had magic powers I would make each American travel and live abroad for a while as a requisite.
smilingseal 2 years ago
If we ended the Iraq war right now, we could pay to cover every single person in the country's health care.
I'm tired of these peoples' argument consisting of hurting the health insurance companies.
DeflocculatedDentist 2 years ago
Well said.
Once those 700000 (Seven Hundred Thousand) people a year Stop going bankrupt in the US because of healthcare, Americans will realize how great universal healthcare really is.
I don't think people realize just how absolutely atrocious healthcare and healthcare bills are in the US. (Mostly the people who've never had to health problems, lol) Outside of very rich people, almost no one can afford heathcare in the US right now. Think about it.
iSOBigD 2 years ago 2
Military benefits society assuming its ran correctly, just like anything else.
As for conquering people, it depends on what side your looking at. Ethically your destoying something differant then you and turning it into something known that you can then either make it do what you want it to, or to make up for the evil of destroying them you turn them into something you can reason with and get along with...so they and ideally you will both prosper.
But who's smart enough to accomplish that.
StuffedAnimalAdvisor 2 years ago
Two good points, but not the best argument. Yes, the government spends money on things we don't want it to (two wrongs don't make a right though). Yes, taxes aren't going to go away (I wish more people would understand this--taxes are often a way to get people to pay for something they agree with in general but otherwise wouldn't pay for day to day, and get it at a better price... police, fire dept, libraries, schools, etc. underfunded and then they say government doesn't work well).
klalkity 2 years ago
Te problem with this health care is that where do the taxes stop?
CNN today 11/09/09 stated that an individuals FINE will be up to 750.00 per person who does not have the health care insurance!
I hope you are right!
Guess what this is a smoke screen to in slave the poor into paying more for WARS !!!!
Not for paying for health care ! Carbon taxes !
How does one pay paper solve the carbon or eliminates it out of the atmosphere?
Just like the post office is more efficient then fed ex?
sealhunter5 2 years ago
weak argument!
PatricksTime 2 years ago
You look like someone I know! Are you kin of Jay? Are you his brother? You look just like him!
enemigosocultos 2 years ago
Please protean, teach us more about Blackstone and Northrop, I know enough to hold my own on Haliburton, but these others are foriegn to I, so whenever they come up in a whim of yours, please do press the record button,
as always, a pleasure
Charlandjl 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
your right man
kyrii212 2 years ago
Sure we are all going to pay taxes, but the question is; How much? Universal healthcare means the wealthy/middle class is going to pay more.
mattschol 2 years ago
Mattschol, just wondering, would you mind put an extra few dollars a day into a bank in order to help your neighbor to recover from an attempt on her life by cancer?
Charlandjl 2 years ago
sure, but that's not what universal healthcare is. For instances, if my neighbor smokes and gets lung cancer, i may give, but ill be a lil less generous than if some woman got breast cancer. Your scenario is a choice, taxes is compulsory.
mattschol 2 years ago
taxation is a result of human action. Taxation is not a law of nature.
Chrisnoscrub047 2 years ago
The bill that passed the house is really pretty bad. From the little I know about it the Republican bill is a lot better since it includes tort reform and lets people buy across state lines.
That plan would cost something like $66 billion over 10 years and the CBO says it would reduce the cost of insurance - none of those provisions are in the Democrat's bill, which is a monstrous 2000 page bill with god knows what in it.
thegoodlocust 2 years ago
Ain't no statepeoples n da hood, Mr. Peabody. I gots five pipers on my caddy and her buscuits need cut around da edges.
Yes. U are right, Mr Peacock. It's a McDonald's Scam. I shure would hate to see Tacos leave the Golden M, Mr. Pearock
Gots I to look another gander at me wound dressin'
GoblinCobbler 2 years ago
Its not about taxes, its about choices. Its about privacy and your security of whether or not you are comfortable with our corrupt government having an open door to your lifestyle, lifeline, statistics and socialism. Universal healthcare is opening a door that we may regret. I am not all that worried about on the large scale of things, we will topple financially before my problems with socialized medicine become a battle I need to fight.
SamuraiCommando 2 years ago
here is what iread on Holland's health care. It is a social health care system run by private health insurance providers who are not allowed to decline anyone no matter what their physical condition and are compensated for doing so. So in truth, everyone in Holland pays the same amount for health care. We STILL pay more over here for it, and A LOT more people here are uninsured. For most people it is an Anti-obama or Pro-obama fight. They need to look at the bill and not the person.
crackerkiller89 2 years ago
This reform kind of sucks. A slight improvement with huge drawbacks like mandates... horrible. I'd rather have single-payer.
Eastmanarium 2 years ago
I'd probably be 6-Feet-Under if it weren't for Privatized Health Care.. I wouldn't have been able to risk waiting around to get care that I needed which is what you hear happening all the time with Public Health Care. Doesn't Canada's Public Helath Care system go bankrupt almost every year? And they have 1/10th the population we do......(U.S.)
Tnias13 2 years ago
trouble is I have lived in the uk and australia both of whom have socialized systems, australia works better, the UK has problems like varied care depending on where you live and long waiting lists for life threatening conditions. I have insurance thru my job and thecare I get now is the best I have ever received in my life.
chefextra 2 years ago
these are some good points. the conservatives tend to tax for war and the dems tend to tax for welfare, that's the way it is.
chefextra 2 years ago
I agree Norway's system works for Norway but that is not due to coverage alone. It has to also do with diet, stress levels, transportation, location, level of pollution thousands of factors that the US is plagued with. Violence etc..
ocelot814 2 years ago
Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am glad that you put it in such simple terms. I have always had the mind set that if I am going to be paying taxes, that I want to see something come from it. Since I am in the income class that pays the highest percentage of taxes, I want a public option. Please see some of my videos of why I want a public option.
GoMetricToday 2 years ago
Right on, Protean! Very well spoken.
Hereticbooks 2 years ago
Please check out the singapore healthcare system if you want to see how govt can run a healthcare system. Link is below.
watch?v=r7QMCEa7hVk
uche007us 2 years ago
Every civilized country in the world has universal health care...that is a fact....those of you who espouse the current system are drones for corporate control and dehumanization...those of you who disagree need to spend an hour looking at global statistics...Health care in the US now ranks far behind most European and many Latin American countries....This is because insurance and pharmaceutical companies maintain a stranglehold on rational and compassionate healthcare....Thanks proteanview!
elrito1 2 years ago
Single payer system like we have here in Canada works quite well, thank you very much.
mhicnanolc 2 years ago
good video
IhaveTubes 2 years ago
I disagree with proteanview's premise that since we're just going to be paying taxes anyway, we may as well get government-subsidized healthcare in the deal. The question is, how much will we pay in taxes? Taxes don't have to be as high as they currently are.
Also, we don't have to choose between funding healthcare or an unconstitutional war. There is a third option: fund neither.
Steve197201 2 years ago
taxing, healthcare, and spending dont matter much to anybody really. its actually evangelical christianity, i think cathlics and born agains, and white supremicy that are causing such intense anger, fear, and opposition. please address these issues pview.
obama is not a bigot like some christians (he does not hate muslims and nonbelievers) so they suppose that he is cursed. their leaders sleep with young boys and prostitutes and they claim that god ispired them (catholic priest, swaggart)
kidcanman 2 years ago
unsubscribe
adsense1 2 years ago
protean, you are wrong on many points here. First, you assume if health care passes, obama will not ALSO do nation building. also, it seems that you have given up hope of spending within means and being financially responsible, you just assume corruption which may be realistic, but is not the only view to take.
cmorera 2 years ago
yup couldn't agree more UHC but not Obama's plan from what I hear and can quite frankly expect from this administration, more planned redistribution of wealth! WE HAVE A ROUGE GOVERNMENT PEOPLE!!!
Don't let them vote for you. vote with your heart on what you know is right. Americans keep believing the act and we are worse and worse, this is the correlation. How much of the propaganda you will believe they try to shovel down your throat.
djgiga 2 years ago
The reason I don't support universal healthcare is not because of the taxes, it is because of the detriment that it will impose upon our health care system now.
TheSandsOfTime60 2 years ago
what exactly is the "detriment" that universal health care will impose upon our system? every so-called first world country and many others that are less economically abundant than the US have health care systems are justly rated by the World Health Organization (WHO) as better systems...It is fact that insurance and pharmaceutical companies are only feeding their bottom lines and in the process obliterating good health care for the people....Pure propaganda is maintaining the status quo...
elrito1 2 years ago
While in overall health care, countries like the UK, Canada, France, etc. may be ranked higher by the WHO, but its for one big factor. That factor is the availability of health care in those countries is available to everyone. However, in terms of care responsiveness (the unit we designate to the effectiveness of health care), the United States is BY FAR the best. Since businesses can make a profit here, they can invest in new tech advancing medical science. This will change with Obamacare.
TheSandsOfTime60 2 years ago
The World Health Organization (WHO), in 2000, ranked the U.S. health care system as the highest in cost, first in responsiveness, 37th in overall performance, and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study).[15][16] A 2008 report by the Commonwealth Fund ranked the United States last in the quality of health care among the 19 compared countries.[17]
elrito1 2 years ago
For one, cost needs to be thrown out since countries with socialized medicine have price caps on their health care (this is like comparing apples to oranges). Secondly, the reason the United States may be so low in health care quality (ie. why our health care may be rated below ohter countries across the board) is because some Americans don't have health insurance. Look up the statistics for mortality rates for patients w/cancer, heart disease, etc. and you will find that the US at the top.
TheSandsOfTime60 2 years ago
thanks for the response, but I feel like you are making the same argument I am...Just because certain aspects of our system are great don't make the system great...interestingly, poor diet, high cholesterol, heart disease, are most prevalent amongst the poorest in this country (who often dont have health insurance)...So much for responsiveness, also those who dont have health care have no preventative medicine, hence they are only in the hospital when on death's door knob. what is the detriment?
elrito1 2 years ago
In other words, yes, if everyone in this county had access to health care we may be the best or close to it.....but, thats not the playing field we are dealing with...as it is the insurance and pharma companies have a stranglehold on doctors and the type and quality of care that they give. .my girlfriend is a doctor and she and many of her peers feel this way. also, 60% of bankruptcy in this country is due to medical debt...what is the detriment?
elrito1 2 years ago
In Sept, 2009, the highly esteemed New England journal of medicine published a study, done by independent researchers, which concluded after over 2000 doctors were interviewed that 73% support single-payer public health care...thats right, almost 3/4 of all doctors in this country support public health care! the vast majority of support and arguments for the current system are the direct results of corporate propaganda, where money is the bottom line...Not quality health care...
elrito1 2 years ago
I like the way you give a different thought process to current events.
Libratarot 2 years ago
Taking care of people and not being a psychopath? I...don't... understand???
Sconz32 2 years ago
Wow. You should have a talkshow.
kellythesinger 2 years ago 3
your premise of your going to pay taxes is erred. it is still possible to legally avoid paying tax in the united states. and this is not socialized medicine comparable to western europe. read the bill. it is an unprecedented and unconstitutional mandate by the government to buy insurance either from a private company or the government. you have a poor understanding on this subject matter.
DonPaulPro 2 years ago
Um, DonPaulPro, we're FORCED to have car insurance. Why? To protect other people. Why would we be FORCED to get insurance? To protect yourself. And don't give me that bullshit about "freedom! I don't think that I should have to have it!" That's bullshit, and you know it.
abaddon5 2 years ago
abaddon5,
I have a choice whether I want to own and drive a car. This choice will determine whether I have insurance. The gov will force me to buy insurance cause im American! Basic care should be affordable. The reason why doctors, clinics and hospitals charge such ungodly (and criminal) fees for their service is because of HMOs and insurance. I believe that all insurance is a ponzi scheme fraud. If thats the world you want, more power to you. i do prefer my freedom and liberty.
vloggercentral1 2 years ago
The car thing is moot, because most of the time we MUST drive to work. Second, is the insurance in Great Britain a ponzi scheme? No, it's not. We pay for something, we get something back. And freedom and liberty with WHAT? Just so you don't have to pay money? Like PV said, you're going to pay taxes. Why not use some of that money to make sure that you're healthy?
abaddon5 2 years ago 4
The nature of the Ponzi scheme is revealed when everyone claims their "something" at the same time. This is when the system implodes and rationing occurs. Hence, why the so-called "death panels" is a plausible consequence of government health care. It's happened before and it starts when smart liberal people start writing about who is useful to society and who is not...
DonPaulPro 2 years ago
Sorry, but failure. Canada doesn't have those problems. Neither does Germany. Or France. You act as if people are going to "fake" being sick, and we'll all have to sacrifice healthcare (like a lot of people are doing today). And okay: since you have the answers, how do we solve the problem? There IS a problem, and we need to fix it.
abaddon5 2 years ago
Looking at you youtube page, Im really surprised you have so much faith in government. You present yourself as being rather intelligent. The nation of Great Britain is bankrupt, the population is growing more obese, their democracy has died, etc. Have you been to western Europe? It sucks and it is fascist. If you love it so much, move there! The best health comes from people taking responsibility for their own lives. Not sitting in line waiting for the next government bailout/handout.
DonPaulPro 2 years ago
I'm assuming that you're addressing me, so we can just pm, because the answers are getting too long.
abaddon5 2 years ago
Britain's losses at the moment are due to a deregulated bank system and exposure to the US subprime mortgage meltdown.
And I have been to Europe. Not fascist.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
is europe fascist? have you been to western europe? you have no clue what you are talking about and are just buying into what you are told... europe are generally more left wing not right where fascism resides, fx here in Denmark our liberals are our right wing party
mollen19 2 years ago
We are forced to have car insurance because after Congressman get voted out they start up insurance companies. That is how that law got passed.
ronniestuff08 2 years ago
i love you for this video
Gyrcion 2 years ago
Does anyone know or have any links to statistics involving mental health care in a socialized health care format? I would like to know how those with depression, schizophrenia etc get along in a social plan.
itowedin 2 years ago
it removes gender discrimination and denial based on pre-existing conditions, but does nothing to lower the rates of those who are deemed such besides nationalizing the industry, which benefits the largest insurers.
joharmon86 2 years ago
this healthcare bill was written by the health insurance industry, cuts public healthcare options (like medicare), and forces people to pay health insurance companies thousands of dollars or go to jail. the bill provides good options for the poor or unemployed, but for everyone else, this nationalizes the health insurance industry, cuts seniors DRAMATICALLY, and does nothing to lower premiums, copays, etc. and provides no emergency options to prevent bankrupcies.
joharmon86 2 years ago
It's not about taxes...is about paying "more" taxes...
Sigh, why does no one see that taxing people for something they wont use is a form of "slavery"?
Not getting paid for the work we are doing, since you are taking the money and giving it to some one else. You're giving the profit we try to get, to some one else.
But it's perfectly fine to those getting something. They don't care if they screw others over. They are perfectly fine passing on their misery to others.
And they call me heartles
5b 2 years ago
this makes me want to unsubscribe for the first time. no one knows what is in the bill? it's online. you can read. it's broken down into sections where you can locate pertinent information - it's not like you need to read the full 2k pages. that's just laziness - as is saying nothing passes these days unless it makes someone richer. that is a generalization, not factual, and based again, on intellectual laziness. also, the healthcare bill does nothing towards universal healthcare at all. read it
joharmon86 2 years ago
That bailout bill was passed while Bush was still in office. Obama is doling it out because he is legally obligated to as chief executor. Had he been president beforehand, he just might have vetoed it. Come to think of it, check to see if he voted for that bill in the first place.
bitterlilraccoon 2 years ago
I live in canada and we have free healthcare. If we go to the states for any healthcare we do have to pay for it. Our healthcare system is for anything doctor related. things like teeth, glasses, ambulance, medication and procedures not covered by health care usually are looked after by blue cross which is not free you pay monthly to it but it starts at about 80 dollars. which gives you 80% covered. Every one is intitled to the healthcare. we are healther with it and its great for emergencys.
crewlla 2 years ago
The tea baggers are easily led fools who want the following: their god, their gun and no gay marriage. They cannot understand that they will pay taxes till they die. simple.
bartonim 2 years ago 2
The tea baggers point to the national debt and toxic assets and you belittle them by saying they fear God. You ignore the fact of debt and point to what you think are their weaknesses, which are infact their strengths.
DWest174 2 years ago
unfortunately i think we will pay for healthcare ON TOP OF all the other bailouts and aid programs you mentioned, proteanview.i will grant you that a health program is a better way to spend these dollars.
practicalmagic9 2 years ago
so true
hume12345 2 years ago
How did people get health care 100 years ago...Hmm.. from a local doc who wasn't regulated to death.
There used to be hospitals that were run by charity..now most are gone due to the big business of health care.
Where is all of this money going to come from to fund it all....you can only get so much from a cow until the milk runs dry.
At least there will be more jobs in the next few years....Prison guards will be in demand to keep an eye on those who are in jail for failure to buy the plan
Buckhead1959 2 years ago
But buckhead the population was smaller. We lived in villages and the equipment and drugs weren't as expensive
olanbennet 2 years ago
olanbennet
You forgot to mention that we were still running around in loincloths and communicating with grunts and clicks as well.
EndTheFedRes 2 years ago
Buckhead1959
Our government got involved with prescription pills back in the 70's, and look where we are now....wait a minute, we pay more than anyone else in the world.
Well, what about Medicaid and Medicare...wait a minute. These programs have driven up the price of healthcare and are bankrupting our nation.
Hey Buckhead1959, YOUR RIGHT!!!
Now can you convince the rest of them? lol
EndTheFedRes 2 years ago
I truly appreciate you staying on even ground when talking politics, a seemingly hard thing to do nowadays.
bisna536 2 years ago
no your going to pay taxes, not me but your right about the business grou we call our government
proticalsonn 2 years ago
I normally agree with you sir but this issue goes far beyond that.
pranachimana 2 years ago
You know what really funny? Told my girlfriend this weekend. Go up to anyone on the street and ask them who Dmitry Medvedev is or Kim Jong Il. Chances are most Americans will not know, but if you ask them who Micheal Jackson is they all certainly will know.
Ask the typical American what "the tribe has spoken" and they will prolly know. UNBELIEVABLE. We are so consumed with BULLS%$!.
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
EndTheFedRes 2 years ago
@EndTheFedRes I agree. We are so sadly dumbed down :/
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
unfortunately socialized health care does not work well. However I do agree that we should be spending our taxes on things that benefit us, the people who pay them
chasmikalmikals 2 years ago
@chasmikalmikals Actually it can work and does in other countries if you look. Better yet travel to once you get the chance. If you have a closed mind to all solutions you wont find it, obviously. People say their absolute is the way when middle ground is better. But people see that as evil. Heaven forbid people discuss and comprise.
medicatedsaint 2 years ago
I love the talking point that universal health care costs too much when the UK is currently spending nearly half of what America is and getting better results.
Awwscrewit 2 years ago
Yeah, wars never cost too much for the US but health care does. Pffft! Germany can afford it but not the US. Pfft! Brainwashed peeps
olanbennet 2 years ago
dude come on you're usually better than this. The truth of the matter is you'll pay taxes no matter what (unless you have zero income) but the truth is also that you have no real choice in where said tax money goes.
TheAtomicSkull 2 years ago
What if we did? There should be a card that lets you check three things that you don't allow your tax money to be used for. If i ever go into politics, i'll try to do that.
ARVNpistola313 2 years ago
bad idea. No one would agree enough to get anything done
TheAtomicSkull 2 years ago
health insurance is more expensive than paying it out of your taxes probably.
lordblazer 2 years ago
Lordblazer:
It is but you have to ask yourself "Who is going to cover the extra cost?" When companies know the govt. is essentially paying for something, prices always go up. This isn't guessed, this is fact. Look anywhere you'd like at any govt. program.
For the short term it's good, it works but down the line is when the trouble comes into play. Where costs rise, quality declines ( because companies abuse more because govt. isn't too great at keeping an eye on things ) and so forth =I
MrMP81 2 years ago
OK. Where are you getting this from? It's a huge assumption you're making. What do you mean extra costs will accumulate? That's already happening under the current privatised healthcare system. There are layers of corporate democracies that doctors have to work through. We can't have UHC right away but I think we need to start moving in that direction. Costs for healthcare shouldn't be rising. It doesn't make sense. YOu can't blame this on R&D as we subsidize that. doesn't explain the high costs
lordblazer 2 years ago
Our healthcare system is not completely private....
The last time that healthcare was completely free market, you could get healthcare for $1-2.
With the retarded regulations and subsidies and barriers to entry, the government has aided a small group of corporation get a monopoly on the healthcare. with this government-enforced monopoly, these few people are able to charge a high price because their is no competition that charges a lower price.
OutdoorsBlackMan 2 years ago 2
First of all the U.S. can't afford anything. That's why we borrow from China and the Federal Reserve. Second of all if your point is that because tax money goes to companys like Haliburton means we can have socialized healthcare then you're just an idiot.
DWest174 2 years ago
Sweden have the highest taxes in the world.
They claim that we have FREE health care.
Yet, we still pay a fee for seeing a doctor.
And we only have about half as many sickbeds per capita then Germany or Belgium.
And yes, we also have less sickbeds then USA...
Scurck 2 years ago
Also, the defense budget constitutes a mere 20% of our budget. Medicare/Medicaid cost over 40% and this is excluding social security. Slashing defense budget (which I'm for by the way) would only bring the margin to 15%. And when you consider Pelosi's Marxist bill entails 1.2 trillion, saying defense appropriations will pay for healthcare is foolish.
Also, considering that all gov't social programs have a record of costing 2-3 times their estimated costs, the bill will cost around 3 trillion.
TheRingil 2 years ago
"For the 2009 fiscal year, the base budget of the Department of Defense rose to $518.3 billion. Adding emergency discretionary spending, supplemental spending, and stimulus spending brings the sum to $651.2 billion.[1][2] Defense-related expenditures outside of the Department of Defense constitute between $274 billion and $493 billion in additional spending, bringing the total for defense spending to between $925 billion and $1.14 trillion in 2009"
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
Decentralized2-
Even if all DoD expenditures, internal or external, are removed, you still won't cover healthcare. Have you forgotten the bailouts and stimulus bills. Early projections put the estimated costs of the totality roughly 15-22 trillion USD. That's essentially twice our GDP, something we will never be able to pay back. Considering all this, you can just kiss the trade equilibrium goodbye.
TheRingil 2 years ago
lol, do you have any idea how much two wars are costing us? You dont.
You have no solutions. only bitching. take a hike
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
Yes, 900 billion plus over 9 years. Still not enough to cut the 1.2 trillion Marxist bill is it?
TheRingil 2 years ago
I don't support the bill. Not one bit. I and the others have told you the solutions. Ignore them if you want to.
You list no solutions. you only bitch bitch bitch. leave me alone now. thank you. you can have the last word though,lol I'm out of here. peace
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
Thanks for the last bit there. I listed no solution because our debate entailed the relative costs and their causal relationship with trade agreements. It was a different topic.
TheRingil 2 years ago
Universal Healthcare can bring america out of debt. Without fair and balanced trade agreements, none of this matters. You still have a country going into a trillion dollar trade debt, each and every year. In theory, removing the burden of healthcare cost from the employer, reduces the cost of american products, but without fair trade agreements, it hardly matter if our products are the cheapest in the world, or the most expensive. The US has had a trade deficit for 36 yrs straight
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
Decentralized-
I love how you think universal healthcare is the solution for everything. It's not going to bring us out of debt. It's a 1.2 trillion dollar measure. Something on that large scale can only be funded either by borrowing more money from East Asian banks (aggravating the trade deficit problem) or taxing the very employers whose product costs you claim to want decreased. This is ridiculous seeing as a 5.4% tax surcharge in a recession is inviting failure.
TheRingil 2 years ago
I love how you completely ignore what i told you that real problem is, unbalanced trade agreements. Universal healthcare could help make US products more affordable. But again sir, nothing maters without balanced trade agreements. Like I said, it doesn't matter if our products are the cheapest oin the world, or the most expensive.
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
Decentralized-
Trade agreements are facilitated by gov'ts, not markets (markets only influence their dynamics). Balancing trade agreements in favor of the U.S. is something we agree on. I just don't buy your notion of universal healthcare + fair trade= lower debt.
To pay for the massive healthcare bill, you have tax. Great, now businesses don't pay for healthcare directly but rather through taxation. Products will vary insignificantly, not enough to overturn the trade deficit.
TheRingil 2 years ago
Either way trade must be balanced. We go into deeper debt from unbalanced trade each and every year, it;s up to one trillion annually right now, on top of what we already owe
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
Decentralized-
I should've expanded upon employer-healthcare stance.
Your employer should subsidize your insurance. This way he or she still pays for the employees healthcare, but the employee is free to choose his or her policy, driving up competition; naturally, given the state-sanctioned monopolies are removed, prices will go down.
TheRingil 2 years ago
Having your employer pay for your healthcare, your picky choosy healthcare, has priced american products out of the market. Of course not that any politician is pushing for fair and balanced trade anyway. But by removing the burden of health care cost from your employer would reduce the cost of american products. We owe 4 trillion now to foreign central exchange banks, we're buying up the world's resources and labor with a paper debt,
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
that is not only taking jobs away, but this carrying of debt causes inflation, and lowers the dollar value.
DecentralizedByGuilt 2 years ago
@yeewooihon jag har lite svårt att se vad du exakt syftar på. Men nå.
Jag tycker helt klart att man kan "krangle" när man vill förbättra situationen för folk. Men jag kanske missuppfattade.
Men jo, jag är glad att jag är född i Sverige ibland.
herrbananapa 2 years ago
It's a case of common sense vs idiocy. Nothing more. The US has privatised healthcare yet still ranks a lowly 38th in comparison to other countries. Whereas countries like Canada and the UK rank higher yet their healthcare is run by the government. It's simple, no?
Saaduk92 2 years ago 2
Even in countries that have universal health care like in Canada, the health care isn't exactly free. People still need to pay for dental and vision care. the health care is mostly paid for through taxes.
HaleyMary 2 years ago
great points... thanks for sharing your thoughts:)
Kgarcia607 2 years ago
I never will understand why we can fund these wars in OTHER COUNTRIES and can't spend that money at home. Opponents are talking about how much it's gonna cost. It won't cost lives!
robertantonnyc 2 years ago
Thank you for this video!
jahabadin16 2 years ago
War or health ??? ..............we support the wrong stuff most of the time !...Finally we are going to spend the money on the right thing to secure our nation's health !!..with respect!
Backatwon 2 years ago 3
Agree, you will pay taxes :). All good points.
I like universal health care.
Problem we have in Canada, med. assoc. limits number of doctors.
I'd still rather live in Canada. ;).
truevoiceofsanity 2 years ago
get out of town!!! the US has the same problem with how its medical association limits doctors to keep wages high!!
lordblazer 2 years ago
;).
All the same several immigrants I know said that its easier to pass the American exam!!!
(The husband of a co-worker did this.)
I don't believe the American exam was harder but apparently given the number of applicants ...
It makes no sense to me because the US pays more but anyway thats what they told me
And yes, keeping salaries high is the real aim where "quality control" is the "claim".
truevoiceofsanity 2 years ago
Agreed.
Dusty341 2 years ago
Right on man. I hear ya!
Anyone ever tell you this?
You look buff man!
I bet if you flexed the Hulk would be Jealous! :D
DruidAnthony 2 years ago
great video ed :)
it be great to see another room in your apt than just the kitchen =)
seoul75 2 years ago
well said brotha! it's actually a quite simple concept, which makes it even more sad when partisonship comes into play and screws everything up.
5 stars. xD