Okay Tracie, so you're having a difficult time understanding why Lot 'offers' his daughters. He's making a strong point concerning the men who are angels sent to destroy the two cities. Lot is saying he would offer his daughters rather than entertain the 'thought', but not that he was literally going to ''give his girls away to the mob"(prefering men). Like Matt says, 'how can a righteous man think of an such act'? By the way, "righteous people fear offending God'' then and now.
@GFunkMachine Dam I wish I had done that at 14. I went through a brief period where I did not know what to believe, I had been told that Darwinism was not accurate, of course that part is partially true, what they don't tell you in church is that Darwinism was just the starting point and we have learned so much sense then. I believe we should all be good and Moral people to make a society work, and we should live life to the fullest as it is the only one we will ever get. Cause later worm feast
Tracie you are the star of this show. It is a pleasure to listen to you. And to top it off you are the most gorgeous woman I have ever met, in the flesh or on the screen. If I was a theist I would say God Bless You baby. So I will restrict myself to saying. May the Spaghetti Monster and the Pink Unicorn give you more knowledge and Beauty and Power to Debate. Amen.
"In verses 30 to 38, the second story describes how Lot's two daughters got their father drunk on wine, engaged in sexual intercourse with him on two successive nights, became pregnant, and eventually gave birth to two sons Moab and Benammi."
Well i can understand being drunk the first night and it happend somehow....but theres no excuse for doing it again the very next day...lol looked like lot liked to fuck his daughters, some righteous man lol
WHo needs proof GOd exist? Look at the sky and the trees, the water. Man cant make any of that. ALl Science can do is tell you that water is made up of H20. Can Science make Air, or water? LOL yall keep believing in creation instead of the Creator. And the lake of fire will be your home. Just Look at all the Prophecys that have came to pass in the Bible.
@MrBostonBlue "Man cant make any of that. ALl Science can do is tell you that water is made up of H20. Can Science make Air, or water?"
Actually, science can make chemical compounds, it's called chemistry I believe.
As for prophesies, care to cite anything in specific? I can't exactly respond to your creation/creator bit because I have no clue what you're attempting to say or imply even with what you wrote.
@MrBostonBlue right. i guess well just ignore all the science claims the bible has in it that have been proven false. like for starters the entirety of genesis. when a book starts out with an entire chapter that has been roundly debunked by modern science, why would any right thinking person continue to read that book ?
1: Science pretty much explains the sky, clouds, and all the plants and animals. By saying that tired old line you lose by default. You made no effort to grasp what you're denouncing so you have no relvant opinion on the matter of science.
2:Threatening people who have not been presented with any real evidence of a creator further justifies the athiest position. You are an immoral sack of shit.
@kakahass This story is also from the Bible.....which was written BEFORE the Quran. That indicates that the Quran is plagiarized from the Bible.....especially since a LOT of the Bible shows up in the Quran.
Story of Lot = Fairy Tale. Story of Job = Fairy Tale. Story of Abraham & Isaac = Fairy Tale. Story of Noah = Fairy Tale. Story of Adam & Eve = Fairy Tale. Story of Moses = Fairy Tale. Story of Jacob = Fairy Tale. Story of Jonah = Fairy Tale. Story of Jesus = Fairy Tale. Every Single Bible Story = Fairy Tale. The Bible might just as well be "The Big Book of Mother Goose," "The Poky Little Puppy," or "Owl With the Great Head & Eyes."
ne one who finds lot righteous has to be immoral first of ass he was willing to give his daughters to a bunch of ppl who wanted to rape them, and than he gets drunk and has sex with his daughters and gets them pregnant. its a complete lack of morals and total child abuse. parents would go to jail over stuff like this
the other "most righteous man" was Noah, a vindictive old drunk who got so wasted once that he passed out naked and then cursed his son into slavery ... bible writers had a fu<ked up moral compass
... Lot, the "most righteous man", then waits for his wife to die and gets drunk and rapes his two daughters and gets them pregnant (the story is told from his perspective or from the perspective of rapists who think that his TWO daughters both got HIM drunk - apparently adult supervision of minors did not exist in the minds of the people who wrote this) ... but then again if they were being supervised by a father who was ready to give them away to rapists ... egh
I know that it appeared in a Chick Comic. By the way, all of the Chick comics, some of the most over-the-top religious tracts you'll ever see, has been collected online. Google: "Jack Chick Museum" There's some hilarious commentary too by people who have critiqued his works.
Which tells you how perverted the rest of the town was.Keep trusting in the morality of man There is no God. Right Matt ?Which would mean of course that man has a real problem with atoms he is using to be moral,Right guys? Since your predisposed by you atomic make up?Boy ,man is really screwed to have such biological make up to do such depraved acts as the Bible suggests.But man will someday evolve and get it right, it takes no faith to believe this.Science has proof atoms will get more moral.
If this webpage has a designer, who designed your brain? The fool has said There is no God (Psalm 14:1)
but I say unto you, that every one who shall say to his brother, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire. (Mat.5:22) who are my brethren? whosoever shall do the will of my Father in heaven, he is my brother (Mat.12:48-50) but the fool has said there is no God
Like the jihadists whom are just as deluded as any bible humper from shit kicker country Kansas?
Like the jidahsits whom finds "truths" in your book to blow out themselves, and hate jews for being jews? Or hate the Wets for its "immorality"? The filthy scum who claims to be muslims but qare using the Palestinians as tools for their sick religious & politicial agenda?
Islam is as rotten as any desert religion who claims monopoly of any truth...
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Obviously, Lot knew the men were homosexuals and to pacify them temporarily while he tried to save to innocent guests, he made an offer we don't know if he would follow up on or not. Also, it was the angels who allowed him to escape. He took care of them, didn't he? What he did later was not approved of by God or encouraged by the Bible. In fact, one of the greatest proofs that the Bible is factual is that such things would be admitted. If it were fairy tales, you wouldn't hear the ugly truths.
Like the ugly truth in 2 Kings 2:23 and 24 where God send bears to kill 42 children for making fun of Elijah because he was bald? if that shows the truth of the Bible then it also shows that God is a sadistic, petty maniac with a savage lust for death.
Tracie looks better with her hair short, the way it is now, then it does in this older video. I wish he had the more of the clip on here then just this. It cuts off before she gets done talking.
What a pantload of crap the Lot story is. If you made a movie about him, changing his name and have it take place in current times, changed the "angeles" to two traveling salesmen, you'd have the perfect Showtime After Dark soft porn movie.
You guys, how can you judge someone like that? You say you are more moral than God, but yet you judge. At the time, Lot was the most righteous man in the city, but he wasn't perfect. But, you are all so hateful to see that Lot was doing what he could to protect the town. The lesser evil. But, you all resort to your what if situations to disprove God. Well " YOU can't disprove" God. But Christians can prove God does exist, and it is by the Love of God and our love to people that God exists.
All atheists have been asking that Christians provide evidence that god exists. For a LONG time. So far, not a single Christian has been able to even come close. Atheists live by the scientific principal so the burden of proof is on you. I'm very interested in this proof you suggest exists. I'm all ears.
the uncaused cause. burden of proof? no one can give you proof on either side, so it's a completely fruitless debate. The father of the big bang was a practicing priest. Valkerian, Not all atheists are scientists and vice versa, atheists living by 'the scientific princip[le]al' means nothing to me but it does kinda make them sound smart :). I understand though, It's all about keeping up appearances in this ego war of God nogod.
" no one can give you proof on either side, so it's a completely fruitless debate"
Atheists don't need proof. We're not the ones making a claim. All the "debate" has been about is the so called "evidence" creationists use to justify their claim.
@okisoba Atheism doesn't claim "there is no god". Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Anti-theism would make that claim, however.
Many people will make the claim "there is no God", but that's usually just people expressing their beliefs in absolute statements, which is a fallacy many people fall into.
It's really just a matter of context, and I really don't think this debate needs to focus any attention on semantics.
@ThePariahGame Actually, anti-theism doesn't require any stance on the existence of God. You could be a believer and still be an anti-theist. An anti-theist is someone who thinks theism is dangerous, evil, and a negative impact on society. You could believe in God and still be an anti-theist. Also, atheism asserts a non-belief in God. It's perfectly legitimate for an atheist to say "there is no God", for that is exactly what the allocation entails.
@ThePariahGame We don't need to acknowledge everything that MIGHT exist. I say quite confidently that there is no God, and should I ever be proven wrong, it would be on evidence that currently does not exist, so my statement would only be incorrect in hindsight.
@valkerian Actually I have to disagree with this, valkerian: "Atheists live by the scientific principle"..this is not the case at all. Not all atheists live by science. Many Buddhists are atheists, but they believe in things unfounded by science (reincarnation for one). All you have to do to qualify as an atheist is to reject that there is a god. You could be atheist and still believe in a soul, or alien abductions or many things that are unscientific.
@Matthew23and9 Except atheism isn't an assertion that there is no god. It's the rejection of a claim that there is. A Theist says here is a god and the Atheist says no I don't believe you, prove it.
This idea that Atheism is an assertion that there is no god is such a common misconception, And there's no reason for it to be. There are so many places you can learn about atheism, Why don't you educate yourself on the position before spouting these tired falsehoods.
1. a map of the universe would not help, since god is (apparently) outside of space and time, and therefore not in the universe.. apart from when he's doin' all the miracles and whatnot obviously.
2. if anyone ever comes to you and says "i know there is no god" then feel free to get them to try and prove it.. but very VERY few atheists are saying that there isn't a god. we are saying that the people telling us that there is a god have not made their claims believable at all
@Matthew23and9 i have read the bible. i do not believe for a second that it is divinely inspired. it is neither profound nor sophisticated.. infact in some parts it is downright barbaric.
now why on earth would you believe it is the word of god.. and more importantly what possible reason could you give me that i should believe it.
have you read the muslim quran? why have you dismissed this as false and accepted the bible as true? let me guess.. your parents are christian not muslim? lol
@Matthew23and9 i have no reason not to believe you. if you say you read the quran then i'll take your word for it, i have also read it (less than a year ago infact) and find it the most distasteful of any religious texts i have read. it really terrifies me that there are millions and millions of people who actually believe it is the unalterable word of god
but i digress.. back to the point. you say i should read the bible, i'm telling you i have and asking you why on earth i should believe it
@Matthew23and9 I have and that is why I am an atheist, well that and because once I saw how sick the bible is and how evil God is I started studying science and found I had been lied to by christians about true science.... Funny the king james version is so full of violence in the name of God he makes the terrorists of today seem downright nice....To clear this up I am an Atheist , I do not believe in any God and using a book written before the dawn of science wont convince me.
@Matthew23and9 You are missing the point, we can not prove that god does not exist, but weather you believe it or not they have proved the universe is billions of years old, not 6000 as the bible suggests. They have proven evolution through peer tested review. And Archaeology has proven that except for a few major historical figures and places that really existed the bible is mostly untrue. We are just saying it makes sense to believe in what we can see, touch and feel and not an invisible god
This show is running for several years now. Many episodes were dedicated to "Christians trying to prove God". There has not been coherent caller yet. Most of the calls are just like your post "God is love" kind of bullshit. I dare you to call them and present your proof.
1st, you can still be more moral than God if you judge. keep in mind god judges millions by the hour.
2nd, how can you trumpet the righteousness of a guy who would sacrifice his two daughters to a mob, to save a town of pedophiles and rapists?
3rd,God can be disproven in most cases, the thing is that most Christians have this problem of never defining god clearly so they can simply fall back and say that god is something vauge .
personally, i say if it's vague it's a pretty lame god.
There is zero archaeological evidence about Sodom and Gomorrah. We've found plenty of ancient cities along the Dead Sea, but no sign whatsoever of any cataclysmic event.
The enitre school of reputable christian and jewish(!!) archaeologists has now confessed that there's not a speck of evidence for any of the bible's stories about the exodus, the campaigns of Joshua, the empire of David, or any of those other fairy-tales.
i don't think you would find 1 credible scholar of history that would agree with you. i just got in the mail 2 days ago a magazine by national geographic exploring the cities of the exodus account.
and last you can just type in sodom and gomorrah here on youtube and see visual evidence of the cities.
p.s. where did you get your information from that they aren't true... i would like to know.
As I said, plenty of cities have been found that COULD qualify, many of which were abandoned, many destroyed by earthquakes. There's indeed evidence of sulfur in some of these cities, which can happen in every normal earthquake, and there's not nearly enough to destroy 2500 square miles. In short, there's no evidence whatsoever that this isn't just a giant exaggeration to scare you away from butt sex (as with the Flood, which was probably just a tsunami that hit Babylonia or Mesopotamia).
Sulfur can be found in all kinds of substances, but it is most notably prevalent in bitumen, magma and lava. Any earthquake or cataclysmic event is very capable of rupturing the thin crust that is the lithosphere, and by its pressure, throw up magma and bitumen up into the air, especially along the Palestin fault line, which is where many of the destroyed cities are located.
So in short, a powerful earthquake along that line could very well result to deposits of sulfur into the cities.
Speaking of Biblical cities that most likely didn't exsist:
There is no historical or archaeological evidence for a city or even a setlement called Nazareth at the time where some guy called Jesus supposetly chanched the world, but nobody seemed to notice.
Well, to be honest: this is one of those stupid arguments, because this doesn't even support the Jesus Myth theory.
I mean, what is the argument here? Even if Jesus is a made-up character, do you seriously believe that the people who made him up would say that he was born in a city that didn't exist? That's quite absurd, you see :)
You have a point there, but it wasn't supposed to be an arguement,
but a fact.
Still, let me bring the conspiricy center of my brain in to action,
I think putting a fictional Character in a fictional city would make it hard for most people in the bronze age to track down any evidence that he was made up.
"You can't disproove it" has allways been the Christians second favorit and probably the most effective weapon.
Yes, it's a fact, but it simply doesn't make sense.
I don't find it convincing. The messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem. If these people were just trying to make a fictional character that had to fit the prophecies, why not just let that fictional character be born in Bethlehem?
Why on Earth would you let him be born in a fictional city (Nazareth), and then make a huge fabrication to get him into Bethlehem (the Christmas story, with the bogus census, is a massive fabrication)?
An absolutely hilarious story! Yep! The bible is complete bullshit! How many of the smartest people on the planet are xtians? Few and this is the reason. Religion is for weak minded people!
interesting! the bible say many thing we should just only take the good things.......religion is to me part of our tradition ND CULTURE AND IN SOME WAY VALUES TO US......
"Now, you can say I have no proof, but sorry stud, Christianity never claims to be made up of truth, but of faith." Awesome. You just said it and that's the problem. We ARE looking for TRUTH, not FAITH. Faith has never produced anything useful, whereas the truth can lead to things like cell phones, cars, canned foods, bead sheets and everything else you use and enjoy.
Well, unfortunately, God is our God. You may not like it, but He doesn't really care what you think about him. I will continue to believe in God and I hope that your "wisdom"does not continue to blind you.
You are still tap dancing here. Making one unsubstantiated claim after the other is cheap. But providing the rational and the evidence is much more sound...
To illustrate my claim, I'll use your comment verbatim in favor of a random god:
''Well, unfortunately, Thor is our God. You may not like it, but He doesn't really care what you think about him. I will continue to believe in Thor and I hope that your "wisdom"does not continue to blind you.''
I'm sorry, I cannot see where you are getting that. You argue that I cannot provide rational evidence for my God. However, in the court of Law, anything that can provide support for you claim is considered evidence. In that sense, our whole world is evidence. The earth is the Creation of God, and therefore it is evidence that God exists. Now, you can say I have no proof, but sorry stud, Christianity never claims to be made up of truth, but of faith.
You are yet again tap dancing here. Where I am getting at is very simple, you can make any claim you want but in order to be taken seriously, you need to provide the rationale and the evidence.
''The earth is the Creation of God, and therefore it is evidence that God exists.''
I am sorry, the universe is evidence of its own existence. Your claim is as ludicrous as saying that presents under the Christmas tree is evidence that Santa exists...
I am confused by your message here: On one side you say that the Earth is evidence for your god and on the other, you say that Christianity doesn't claim to be made of truth but faith.
I know that the god concept and religion aren't exclusive to each other, but your reply doesn't make much sense....
Sorry, I know its wierd trying to type it. Well, I never accepted God because of evidence or proof that God existed. I was just saying that what I may see as evidence may not be what you feel is evidence. I believe that God created the world, and that the world is in fact his craft, But you may not see it as evidence because you don't believe in God. I hope that cleared it up.
if you go to a car dealer and you want an used car. the salesman tells you to have faith in the car, that the car won't fall apart in the next 100 miles. do you believe that? Don't you even question that? Now replace the salesman with God and the car with heaven/his abilities then you have the same based faith. Faith is just blindly following something without questioning with the result that it might be wrong.
Well, I wouldn't be following God blindly. if you knew that Car salesman personally, that He fed the poor, that He was ever loving, yet serious, would you not trust that salesman. I know God, I know what Has done, I know what He can do, and therefore I am not just trusting some stranger but someone I know personally. But, true faith is kinda blind. When I say this, I mean that I would follow God no matter what he would want me to do. But, because I believe in God, I don't see it as wrong.
Now let's take a look at that car salesman. What if you knew that he'd been convicted of mass murdering a bunch of children? Would you still trust him? Your god in the bible wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah, and every human but Noah (& family). He told his followers to kill off every living thing in an entire city--and he was specific about infants and children. I know this character, too, by his own alleged word in the bible. I wouldn't trust him to mow my lawn.
Throughout history, a lot of people claimed that their deities created the earth. There is nothing that makes your claims that your deity created it any more valid than any other deity. They all seem to be supernatural explanations to substitute for the words, "I don't know." The universe is. There is nothing in it's existence to demonstrate a conscious maker.
So you think God is a thug? Basically you are describing God as Joe Pesci in GoodFellas.
No thanks. I'll worship Dionysus. He was more fun. And if we are going around deciding to worship invisible men, then I'll pick someone fun, not a homicidal maniac
The Creator of life. It's as simple as that. Well, there are certain parts of the bible that everyone can interpret differently, and at times all interpretations are are what is being used. However, many of the stories and the morals of the bible are comprehensible. If you choose to pay attention or not, it is one's own fault for not understanding.
Also, the time period of the Old Testament was more fierce because the people of the time were held more accountable for their actions. The Laws of Moses were to keep people from becoming outstanding sinners, and the consequences were harsh because they knew about God. Sometimes we question our Father for the actions He makes, but although we may not understand them (since we are imperfect) He is a righteous God to all extents.
So, Lot offered his engaged, virgin daughters to a horny mob so that they would not rape the angels, who are angels aka embodiments of Gods will on Earth and therefore could simply have waived their hands and miracled the mob away, he then gets drunk and has sex with his own daughters, and he's the most righteous christian... If that's right I'm very grateful that I'm wrong.
Well, first of all, The mob wasn't much of a threat to the angels nor to Lot. Lot wanted to save the people of these cities and that is why, out of last minute desperation I suppose, offered his daughters to help save someone. Lastly, Lot did not get himself drunk to have sex with his daughters, but it was his daughters who got Lot drunk to have sex with him in order to conceive children.
And if that apologist evasion of the fact Lot had his daughters raped and then had sex with them comforts you or somehow makes these barbaric bronze age beliefs more palatable to you, GREAT! But keep in mind that just because you've chosen to gloss over what the bible actually says in favor of what you want it to say doesn't give your beliefs any additional viability to those who see rape and incest as abominations regardless of what excuses or evasions your imaginary friend has come up with.
Have you read the bible? Or are you just making your own assumptions to suit your need. It say that Lot's daughters were contemplating to get their father drunk in order to have sex with them. You might wanna read it before you yell out your presumptuous conclusions. But, just because you've chosen to gloss over what the bible actually says in favor of what you want it to say doesn't give your beliefs any additional viability.
Not only have I read several different versions of the bible I attended Roman Catholic seminary college for several years. You have consistantly missed the point of each statement I've made, and honestly I think you must be doing it intentionally, thusly I have nothing more to say to you. If you cannot see the gapping hole in your morality and ethics that this discussion has revealed you truly are lost in righteous ignorance.
Your schooling means nothing since you didn't learn to stick to the truth. You state that just because one man flawed, you deny the Truth. But, stating that I have missed your points is a complete fallacy since you only pointed out strawman arguments. I have never heard of Lot being the most righteous Christian, and understand I never really cared when I began growing up. But, even the most righteous man was imperfect, and as we succumb to stress I am pretty sure he did to.
I also was upset by this when I read it, and it made me question my faith just a little. But I began thinking, so many people flawed, who were outstanding in the bible, but they too had flaws. I cannot say I am denying that what Lot did was wrong, but He isn't, nor never stated to be perfect. I really hope that you understand that the only two characters in the bible that are perfect are God and Christ, the rest are prone to sin.
The reason you felt a question to your faith is that rationally you know these stories and myths cannot be true but you want it to be SO badly you willingingly blind yourself to reality by suppressing such questions with apologetist justifications and confirmation bias. Notice I have not said religion is untrue or that God does not exist, just that the absolute moral code of the bible isn't as moral as people claim.
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence.
I understand what you say about a wrong moral code. Are you talking about people like Lot, King Solomon, King Danielle, Mosses, Peter, and a whole bunch of others? If you notice, they all did ungodly things. Both David and Solomon had multiple wives and strayed away from God, and Lot did what He did. But they are imperfect as are we. We should strive to be like God and use Jesus as an example because his moral code is not off. But, I do, now, understand what you mean about a wrong moral code.
God himself had a wrong moral code. I see why the Old Testament needed a sequel. What holds followers to their religion so tightly isnt a matter of logic, its a matter of emotion. Nobody wants to let go of their belief & realize that the man in the sky who always took care of u, who always made u feel safe & gave u hope in your time of need w/ promises of a blissful afterlife ISNT REAL! trust me, i dont want to step on ur faith. just dont impose ur faith on the rights of every1 else & we're good
Your words do not infringe my faith one bit. I hear this all the time, and I know why you say what you say because I told myself the exact same lie everyday last year. But atheist, like yourself, do not wanna let go of themselves and acknowledge God because they do not want to obey God. So they make up excuses and false testemonies to believe otherwise and soon, a lie becomes the truth to them. They run away from God not because He is "unjust" but because they are.
Sigh. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in the claim that a god exists.
Every bit of terminology you used here assumes that atheists believes in that character to start with when it isn't the case.
But, before even bringing up arguments in favor of your particular flavor of god, I'd be very curious to see if you could at least establish a coherent and positive ontology for your concept of a deity...
This atheist would never follow such an amoral deity, even if proven real. I've read the bible. No way would I ever follow a god that (Isaiah 13:16) orders "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." This is just one sample of this barbaric god of death and sadism. I don't care if he puts on a new face as Jesus. I would never trust a mass murderer no matter how he claims to have reformed.
"just dont impose ur faith on the rights of every1 else & we're good" Here, here! If you think marrying someone of the same gender is wrong, don't do it. But don't impose your religion on others. Let laws reflect society, not religion. Secular law states that murder is wrong. "Thou shalt not kill" agrees with that. But if you decide tomorrow that disobedient chidren should be stoned to death, because it says so in the bible, I will fight you, as will any rational person.
The wrong moral code is of the alleged deity, not the people in it. This god repeatedly orders the deaths of babies throughout the bible. This is immoral. He states that if children get too unruly, they should be stoned to death. This is unconscionable. The list of things your lord says to kill people for is ludicrous, immoral, and irrational. He wipes out all of humanity once--including innocent babies and children--and plans on doing it again. Mass murder is not in any way moral.
"Your schooling means nothing" His schooling means that he has spent a great deal of time studying the Bible. In your earlier retort, you said "Have you read the Bible?" as if attacking his arguments because of his lack of study. Then when he gives evidence of his study of the bible, you also scoff at that. You are quick to reject arguments from one who has not read or one who has read the bible repeatedly. You can't have it both ways.
Forget Lot. When your deity wipes out a whole city (or humanity in the flood), babies and children are killed along with the supposed evil ones. If you think that's moral, then please save me and my children from people like you. With the next mass murder he plans, only the believers get a free ticket to heaven--that means the ones lucky enough to be born in a Christian family and keep their faith. All those--including babies and children--born under another faith get eternal torture--immoral.
Even Christians themselves can't interpret their own holy book properly. When you have 30 000 denominations of a same religion stemming from different interpretations of a single book, it sounds ludicrous to lecture anyone about not understanding or interpreting their holy book properly...
What is the moral of this story. I mean God wrote the infaliable Bible and sent it to us for us to follow and take as our law and the bases of our lives so what do we take of this? No matter what don't be gay and don't have virgin daughters, and if your daughters are so ugly that no one will get them pregnate then you must man up Big Time. I wish christians would really stand us and explain why the hell this story would ever be told except to say that you sleep with anything when your drunk.
I don't think that this story can even be used against homosexuality. The fact is women of the time were considered less than men. Raping a woman was not as bad as raping a man. There's nothing in the story to suggest that god is against consensual gay relations.
In fact it's not even just an issue of whether they rape men or women, what they're wanting to do is rape angels. I'm pretty sure that was Lots main motivation for offering his daughters instead... or would be if it were a true story
Well there is another incident in Judges almost just like this one except the visitor isn't an angel and he offers up his concubine and the house owner also offers up his daughter but the crowd only wanted the concubine. And of course they rape and abuse her all night till morning comes where she crawls back to the door and dies. And then her great man cuts her into 12 pieces and sends her body parts to country of the inheritance of Israel because he was a sick f*ck.
Okay Tracie, so you're having a difficult time understanding why Lot 'offers' his daughters. He's making a strong point concerning the men who are angels sent to destroy the two cities. Lot is saying he would offer his daughters rather than entertain the 'thought', but not that he was literally going to ''give his girls away to the mob"(prefering men). Like Matt says, 'how can a righteous man think of an such act'? By the way, "righteous people fear offending God'' then and now.
GrandeRio01 2 weeks ago
@GFunkMachine Actually,. under scarce food supply, it is justified. Also, you know this, but just in case, the bible doesn't condone murder either.
ibsd 6 months ago
@GFunkMachine Random bit: Slavery is a sometimes necessary economic system. It is not equivalent to murder at all.
ibsd 6 months ago
@GFunkMachine Dam I wish I had done that at 14. I went through a brief period where I did not know what to believe, I had been told that Darwinism was not accurate, of course that part is partially true, what they don't tell you in church is that Darwinism was just the starting point and we have learned so much sense then. I believe we should all be good and Moral people to make a society work, and we should live life to the fullest as it is the only one we will ever get. Cause later worm feast
robtay1963 7 months ago
Tracie you are the star of this show. It is a pleasure to listen to you. And to top it off you are the most gorgeous woman I have ever met, in the flesh or on the screen. If I was a theist I would say God Bless You baby. So I will restrict myself to saying. May the Spaghetti Monster and the Pink Unicorn give you more knowledge and Beauty and Power to Debate. Amen.
azzy314159 8 months ago
"In verses 30 to 38, the second story describes how Lot's two daughters got their father drunk on wine, engaged in sexual intercourse with him on two successive nights, became pregnant, and eventually gave birth to two sons Moab and Benammi."
Well i can understand being drunk the first night and it happend somehow....but theres no excuse for doing it again the very next day...lol looked like lot liked to fuck his daughters, some righteous man lol
MadMAn12gauge 9 months ago
I think all videos should start off with "Sodom"
WilliamWozzeck 10 months ago
WHo needs proof GOd exist? Look at the sky and the trees, the water. Man cant make any of that. ALl Science can do is tell you that water is made up of H20. Can Science make Air, or water? LOL yall keep believing in creation instead of the Creator. And the lake of fire will be your home. Just Look at all the Prophecys that have came to pass in the Bible.
MrBostonBlue 11 months ago
@MrBostonBlue Im scared
DylanJo123 10 months ago
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@MrBostonBlue "Man cant make any of that. ALl Science can do is tell you that water is made up of H20. Can Science make Air, or water?"
Actually, science can make chemical compounds, it's called chemistry I believe.
As for prophesies, care to cite anything in specific? I can't exactly respond to your creation/creator bit because I have no clue what you're attempting to say or imply even with what you wrote.
CrazyBluePrime 10 months ago
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FatherofMan25 10 months ago
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@MrBostonBlue right. i guess well just ignore all the science claims the bible has in it that have been proven false. like for starters the entirety of genesis. when a book starts out with an entire chapter that has been roundly debunked by modern science, why would any right thinking person continue to read that book ?
FatherofMan25 10 months ago
@MrBostonBlue
1: Science pretty much explains the sky, clouds, and all the plants and animals. By saying that tired old line you lose by default. You made no effort to grasp what you're denouncing so you have no relvant opinion on the matter of science.
2:Threatening people who have not been presented with any real evidence of a creator further justifies the athiest position. You are an immoral sack of shit.
NUTCASE71733 4 months ago
tracice looks amazing in this episodes
ddbd 1 year ago
Tracie= Carpet Muncher
dhide14 1 year ago
@dhide14 Jealous, troll? Don't be mad because she can get women and you can't.
ciaochowbella 1 year ago 4
"The main point that I would make --"
That's the way the cookie crumbles.
ELREndLondonRule 1 year ago
Tracie, just shouldn't speak sometimes.
TheTrashytramp 1 year ago
lol this story is from the quran
kakahass 1 year ago
@kakahass This story is also from the Bible.....which was written BEFORE the Quran. That indicates that the Quran is plagiarized from the Bible.....especially since a LOT of the Bible shows up in the Quran.
ciaochowbella 1 year ago
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Lot offers he betrothed virgin daughters to be GANG RAPED. Yah, the bible is full of lovely shit.
xephyr1000 1 year ago
Lott and his daughters must have been ugly as sin.
Craydon 1 year ago
gspendlove 1 year ago 9
Hahaha, it totally cuts off as Tracy is trying to make her point after Matt steals it from her.
StayGold42 1 year ago
ne one who finds lot righteous has to be immoral first of ass he was willing to give his daughters to a bunch of ppl who wanted to rape them, and than he gets drunk and has sex with his daughters and gets them pregnant. its a complete lack of morals and total child abuse. parents would go to jail over stuff like this
ellimist6 1 year ago 4
You will know the tree by its fruit.
black404go 1 year ago
the other "most righteous man" was Noah, a vindictive old drunk who got so wasted once that he passed out naked and then cursed his son into slavery ... bible writers had a fu<ked up moral compass
saadaya 1 year ago 4
@saadaya They had a normal compas.
They just had a lot of mushrooms.
I mean a lot.
AkiThePirate 1 year ago
... Lot, the "most righteous man", then waits for his wife to die and gets drunk and rapes his two daughters and gets them pregnant (the story is told from his perspective or from the perspective of rapists who think that his TWO daughters both got HIM drunk - apparently adult supervision of minors did not exist in the minds of the people who wrote this) ... but then again if they were being supervised by a father who was ready to give them away to rapists ... egh
saadaya 1 year ago 3
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Isn't self masturbation an act of being GAY or BI SEXUAL even if your a christian doing it?
uniquemetal 1 year ago
Lot is righteous by offering his daughters to get raped by a wolfpack of gay men. Pointless story to be inserted into a old book lol.
left4stupidbyfaith 2 years ago 6
I side note, Wonder if someone has ever done this stor yas a comic ?
Idd love it to be a hentai comic, Mehehe!
Yulenissen 2 years ago 2
I know that it appeared in a Chick Comic. By the way, all of the Chick comics, some of the most over-the-top religious tracts you'll ever see, has been collected online. Google: "Jack Chick Museum" There's some hilarious commentary too by people who have critiqued his works.
Bfdidc 2 years ago
Which tells you how perverted the rest of the town was.Keep trusting in the morality of man There is no God. Right Matt ?Which would mean of course that man has a real problem with atoms he is using to be moral,Right guys? Since your predisposed by you atomic make up?Boy ,man is really screwed to have such biological make up to do such depraved acts as the Bible suggests.But man will someday evolve and get it right, it takes no faith to believe this.Science has proof atoms will get more moral.
polopowers1 2 years ago
You don't seem to understand atoms, biology, or morals.
ikvsabre 2 years ago
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.
If this webpage has a designer, who designed your brain? The fool has said There is no God (Psalm 14:1)
but I say unto you, that every one who shall say to his brother, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire. (Mat.5:22) who are my brethren? whosoever shall do the will of my Father in heaven, he is my brother (Mat.12:48-50) but the fool has said there is no God
.
conceil8 2 years ago
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You will not believe what I discovered, I advice all to read about this religion Called
( ISLAM) it will surprise you and you will be passion of it
You can search for the Islam thru internet or reading some books
You will lose nothing
If you want to know meaning of love and soul peace read about this religion
I Love you all
Multisclerosis 2 years ago
Like the jihadists whom are just as deluded as any bible humper from shit kicker country Kansas?
Like the jidahsits whom finds "truths" in your book to blow out themselves, and hate jews for being jews? Or hate the Wets for its "immorality"? The filthy scum who claims to be muslims but qare using the Palestinians as tools for their sick religious & politicial agenda?
Islam is as rotten as any desert religion who claims monopoly of any truth...
bohemianwriter1 1 year ago
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Obviously, Lot knew the men were homosexuals and to pacify them temporarily while he tried to save to innocent guests, he made an offer we don't know if he would follow up on or not. Also, it was the angels who allowed him to escape. He took care of them, didn't he? What he did later was not approved of by God or encouraged by the Bible. In fact, one of the greatest proofs that the Bible is factual is that such things would be admitted. If it were fairy tales, you wouldn't hear the ugly truths.
Ginasong 2 years ago
Like the ugly truth in 2 Kings 2:23 and 24 where God send bears to kill 42 children for making fun of Elijah because he was bald? if that shows the truth of the Bible then it also shows that God is a sadistic, petty maniac with a savage lust for death.
Psittacosaurus 2 years ago 5
Exactly. God created in man's image, not the other way around...............
richwfd 1 year ago
@richwfd Very true, like the chinese proverb goes, "If horses could draw, they would draw gods as horses"
Psittacosaurus 1 year ago 3
@Ginasong that's because they are violent, evil fairy tales lightly sprinkled with empty promises of eternal life.
holdenbane 2 years ago
Tracie looks better with her hair short, the way it is now, then it does in this older video. I wish he had the more of the clip on here then just this. It cuts off before she gets done talking.
MyCatMischief 2 years ago
What a pantload of crap the Lot story is. If you made a movie about him, changing his name and have it take place in current times, changed the "angeles" to two traveling salesmen, you'd have the perfect Showtime After Dark soft porn movie.
bushgirlsgonewild 2 years ago 5
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You guys, how can you judge someone like that? You say you are more moral than God, but yet you judge. At the time, Lot was the most righteous man in the city, but he wasn't perfect. But, you are all so hateful to see that Lot was doing what he could to protect the town. The lesser evil. But, you all resort to your what if situations to disprove God. Well " YOU can't disprove" God. But Christians can prove God does exist, and it is by the Love of God and our love to people that God exists.
socofanjm 2 years ago
All atheists have been asking that Christians provide evidence that god exists. For a LONG time. So far, not a single Christian has been able to even come close. Atheists live by the scientific principal so the burden of proof is on you. I'm very interested in this proof you suggest exists. I'm all ears.
valkerian 2 years ago 61
the uncaused cause. burden of proof? no one can give you proof on either side, so it's a completely fruitless debate. The father of the big bang was a practicing priest. Valkerian, Not all atheists are scientists and vice versa, atheists living by 'the scientific princip[le]al' means nothing to me but it does kinda make them sound smart :). I understand though, It's all about keeping up appearances in this ego war of God nogod.
finefinefine 2 years ago
" no one can give you proof on either side, so it's a completely fruitless debate"
Atheists don't need proof. We're not the ones making a claim. All the "debate" has been about is the so called "evidence" creationists use to justify their claim.
ThePariahGame 2 years ago 45
@ThePariahGame If an atheist states that there is no god then that would be a claim.
okisoba 1 year ago
@okisoba Atheism doesn't claim "there is no god". Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. Anti-theism would make that claim, however.
Many people will make the claim "there is no God", but that's usually just people expressing their beliefs in absolute statements, which is a fallacy many people fall into.
It's really just a matter of context, and I really don't think this debate needs to focus any attention on semantics.
ThePariahGame 1 year ago
@ThePariahGame I concur with that.
okisoba 1 year ago
@ThePariahGame Actually, anti-theism doesn't require any stance on the existence of God. You could be a believer and still be an anti-theist. An anti-theist is someone who thinks theism is dangerous, evil, and a negative impact on society. You could believe in God and still be an anti-theist. Also, atheism asserts a non-belief in God. It's perfectly legitimate for an atheist to say "there is no God", for that is exactly what the allocation entails.
PCrePs 1 year ago
@ThePariahGame We don't need to acknowledge everything that MIGHT exist. I say quite confidently that there is no God, and should I ever be proven wrong, it would be on evidence that currently does not exist, so my statement would only be incorrect in hindsight.
PCrePs 1 year ago
@finefinefine so by your logic the question of god/no god is as fruitless as a question of santa clause/no santa clause? good argument.
holdenbane 2 years ago
@valkerian Actually I have to disagree with this, valkerian: "Atheists live by the scientific principle"..this is not the case at all. Not all atheists live by science. Many Buddhists are atheists, but they believe in things unfounded by science (reincarnation for one). All you have to do to qualify as an atheist is to reject that there is a god. You could be atheist and still believe in a soul, or alien abductions or many things that are unscientific.
RockBanned 1 year ago
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YesYou123333 1 year ago
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@valkerian Atheists don't have proof he doesn't exist so he must be true.
sk8tafrnk 11 months ago
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@valkerian Atheists don't have proof he doesn't exist so he must be true.
sk8tafrnk 11 months ago
@valkerian
Unless you have a map of the entire universe that can clearly show that God does not exist, then atheism has no proof either.
The universe is very big, and I'm guessing that not a single atheist has seen the entire thing.
Just sayin.
Matthew23and9 11 months ago
@Matthew23and9 Except atheism isn't an assertion that there is no god. It's the rejection of a claim that there is. A Theist says here is a god and the Atheist says no I don't believe you, prove it.
This idea that Atheism is an assertion that there is no god is such a common misconception, And there's no reason for it to be. There are so many places you can learn about atheism, Why don't you educate yourself on the position before spouting these tired falsehoods.
DuskFalconus 10 months ago
@Matthew23and9
1. a map of the universe would not help, since god is (apparently) outside of space and time, and therefore not in the universe.. apart from when he's doin' all the miracles and whatnot obviously.
2. if anyone ever comes to you and says "i know there is no god" then feel free to get them to try and prove it.. but very VERY few atheists are saying that there isn't a god. we are saying that the people telling us that there is a god have not made their claims believable at all
ScotchMonkey08 9 months ago
@ScotchMonkey08
I highly recommend picking up a King Jame Bible and read it for yourself. Forget what anyone else has told you about or what you've heard.
Hear the Word from God Himself. The Bible will show you who God is because it came from Him.
Matthew23and9 9 months ago
@Matthew23and9 i have read the bible. i do not believe for a second that it is divinely inspired. it is neither profound nor sophisticated.. infact in some parts it is downright barbaric.
now why on earth would you believe it is the word of god.. and more importantly what possible reason could you give me that i should believe it.
have you read the muslim quran? why have you dismissed this as false and accepted the bible as true? let me guess.. your parents are christian not muslim? lol
ScotchMonkey08 9 months ago
@ScotchMonkey08
You may not believe this, but I bought the Quran and read it before I became a Christian!
After comparing the Bible to the Quran, I chose to believe the Bible. And no my parents are not Christians.
Matthew23and9 9 months ago
@Matthew23and9 i have no reason not to believe you. if you say you read the quran then i'll take your word for it, i have also read it (less than a year ago infact) and find it the most distasteful of any religious texts i have read. it really terrifies me that there are millions and millions of people who actually believe it is the unalterable word of god
but i digress.. back to the point. you say i should read the bible, i'm telling you i have and asking you why on earth i should believe it
ScotchMonkey08 9 months ago
@Matthew23and9 I have and that is why I am an atheist, well that and because once I saw how sick the bible is and how evil God is I started studying science and found I had been lied to by christians about true science.... Funny the king james version is so full of violence in the name of God he makes the terrorists of today seem downright nice....To clear this up I am an Atheist , I do not believe in any God and using a book written before the dawn of science wont convince me.
robtay1963 9 months ago
@Matthew23and9
why would you(or anyone else) believe the bible came from god?
the bible came from a group of primitive middle eastern savages
sabin97 9 months ago
@Matthew23and9 You are missing the point, we can not prove that god does not exist, but weather you believe it or not they have proved the universe is billions of years old, not 6000 as the bible suggests. They have proven evolution through peer tested review. And Archaeology has proven that except for a few major historical figures and places that really existed the bible is mostly untrue. We are just saying it makes sense to believe in what we can see, touch and feel and not an invisible god
robtay1963 7 months ago
This show is running for several years now. Many episodes were dedicated to "Christians trying to prove God". There has not been coherent caller yet. Most of the calls are just like your post "God is love" kind of bullshit. I dare you to call them and present your proof.
cheburashka1326 2 years ago 2
socofanjm.. The worst person living now is much more more than God. prove me wrong. Thank;s
robertobrian6 2 years ago 3
1st, you can still be more moral than God if you judge. keep in mind god judges millions by the hour.
2nd, how can you trumpet the righteousness of a guy who would sacrifice his two daughters to a mob, to save a town of pedophiles and rapists?
3rd,God can be disproven in most cases, the thing is that most Christians have this problem of never defining god clearly so they can simply fall back and say that god is something vauge .
personally, i say if it's vague it's a pretty lame god.
We>god
TheGreatLyger 2 years ago 4
lets say angels existed and they came to ur house and the people of the city came to rape them would u offer ur kids to be raped instead?
ellimist6 2 years ago
Sir, we're gonna need to see some facts.
theJamesWilliams 2 years ago
Prove ''love of god''.
lipoicacid 2 years ago
You said Christians can prove God, and many people have asked you for that proof. But, you have been silent for a month after that.
If you have proof of God, REAL proof, why aren't you sharing it with us?
Kieranfoy 2 years ago 5
how can lot be moral if he was going to allow a mob of people rape his own daughters
who would allow their daughters to be raped?
ellimist6 2 years ago 2
I want Tracy on my D
LBTennis 2 years ago
me too.
culvre 2 years ago
ha She looks particularly good in this vid to
LBTennis 2 years ago
the problem with the show is not that 90 % of the time they give their personal opinion about what they think.
it's just that they have no Great Christian apologist's to debate with. lee strobel, ravi zacharias, denish dsouza.
neither do they make refrence to any historical scholar about the historicity of the biblical accounts.
BTW... you can look at the remains of sodom and Gomorrah on youtube..
otherwise...
all your really getting fed is personal opinion...
goldgoku3264 2 years ago
ur right, why dont u call in and tell them about these "scholars" & the remains of Sodom and Gomorrah on you tube, .... :)
Key2daUnderground 2 years ago
There is zero archaeological evidence about Sodom and Gomorrah. We've found plenty of ancient cities along the Dead Sea, but no sign whatsoever of any cataclysmic event.
The enitre school of reputable christian and jewish(!!) archaeologists has now confessed that there's not a speck of evidence for any of the bible's stories about the exodus, the campaigns of Joshua, the empire of David, or any of those other fairy-tales.
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
i don't think you would find 1 credible scholar of history that would agree with you. i just got in the mail 2 days ago a magazine by national geographic exploring the cities of the exodus account.
and last you can just type in sodom and gomorrah here on youtube and see visual evidence of the cities.
p.s. where did you get your information from that they aren't true... i would like to know.
goldgoku3264 2 years ago
btw. if you do your research. sodom and gomorrah was discovered to have sulfur stones imbeded in it. research that.
goldgoku3264 2 years ago
As I said, plenty of cities have been found that COULD qualify, many of which were abandoned, many destroyed by earthquakes. There's indeed evidence of sulfur in some of these cities, which can happen in every normal earthquake, and there's not nearly enough to destroy 2500 square miles. In short, there's no evidence whatsoever that this isn't just a giant exaggeration to scare you away from butt sex (as with the Flood, which was probably just a tsunami that hit Babylonia or Mesopotamia).
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
Nex thing you'll do is mention that moron, Ron Wyatt.
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
brtankbuster... can you give me a natural explanation why those cities would have sulfur embedded in them?
goldgoku3264 2 years ago
Sulfur can be found in all kinds of substances, but it is most notably prevalent in bitumen, magma and lava. Any earthquake or cataclysmic event is very capable of rupturing the thin crust that is the lithosphere, and by its pressure, throw up magma and bitumen up into the air, especially along the Palestin fault line, which is where many of the destroyed cities are located.
So in short, a powerful earthquake along that line could very well result to deposits of sulfur into the cities.
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
hmmmm.. i agree.
goldgoku3264 2 years ago
You idiot haha
You keep having revelations like this and your whole house of cards is going to tumble.
Skindoggiedog 2 years ago
Speaking of Biblical cities that most likely didn't exsist:
There is no historical or archaeological evidence for a city or even a setlement called Nazareth at the time where some guy called Jesus supposetly chanched the world, but nobody seemed to notice.
...
Xigano1 2 years ago
Well, to be honest: this is one of those stupid arguments, because this doesn't even support the Jesus Myth theory.
I mean, what is the argument here? Even if Jesus is a made-up character, do you seriously believe that the people who made him up would say that he was born in a city that didn't exist? That's quite absurd, you see :)
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
You have a point there, but it wasn't supposed to be an arguement,
but a fact.
Still, let me bring the conspiricy center of my brain in to action,
I think putting a fictional Character in a fictional city would make it hard for most people in the bronze age to track down any evidence that he was made up.
"You can't disproove it" has allways been the Christians second favorit and probably the most effective weapon.
Xigano1 2 years ago
Yes, it's a fact, but it simply doesn't make sense.
I don't find it convincing. The messiah was supposed to be born in Bethlehem. If these people were just trying to make a fictional character that had to fit the prophecies, why not just let that fictional character be born in Bethlehem?
Why on Earth would you let him be born in a fictional city (Nazareth), and then make a huge fabrication to get him into Bethlehem (the Christmas story, with the bogus census, is a massive fabrication)?
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
I think the most reasonable position is that there was indeed some kind of preacher in Palestine.
He happened to fit some of the prophecies, but not the others, and that's why his followers had to try so hard to make him fit those prophecies.
But the entire forced fabrication does suggest that there was some kind of real person to fabricate something around.
Otherwise they would've just invented a person who fitted all prophecies perfectly, you see.
BRtankbuster 2 years ago
Noticing things like that is bad for business.
Macrochenia 2 years ago
Kirk Cameron !!!!!! No, I wasn't serious !!!!
Riptidescool 2 years ago
An absolutely hilarious story! Yep! The bible is complete bullshit! How many of the smartest people on the planet are xtians? Few and this is the reason. Religion is for weak minded people!
Intiminator99 2 years ago 6
interesting! the bible say many thing we should just only take the good things.......religion is to me part of our tradition ND CULTURE AND IN SOME WAY VALUES TO US......
azteckike 2 years ago
"Now, you can say I have no proof, but sorry stud, Christianity never claims to be made up of truth, but of faith." Awesome. You just said it and that's the problem. We ARE looking for TRUTH, not FAITH. Faith has never produced anything useful, whereas the truth can lead to things like cell phones, cars, canned foods, bead sheets and everything else you use and enjoy.
kissmeamerica 2 years ago 2
I know, sometime I feel like I sound mean when I'm typing. Please forgive me if I make akward comments or sound snobby.
socofanjm 2 years ago
No problem. Just remember that beliefs don't inform reality...
But don't take my word for it, think for yourself.
wynd2007 2 years ago
Well, unfortunately, God is our God. You may not like it, but He doesn't really care what you think about him. I will continue to believe in God and I hope that your "wisdom"does not continue to blind you.
socofanjm 2 years ago
You are still tap dancing here. Making one unsubstantiated claim after the other is cheap. But providing the rational and the evidence is much more sound...
To illustrate my claim, I'll use your comment verbatim in favor of a random god:
''Well, unfortunately, Thor is our God. You may not like it, but He doesn't really care what you think about him. I will continue to believe in Thor and I hope that your "wisdom"does not continue to blind you.''
wynd2007 2 years ago
I'm sorry, I cannot see where you are getting that. You argue that I cannot provide rational evidence for my God. However, in the court of Law, anything that can provide support for you claim is considered evidence. In that sense, our whole world is evidence. The earth is the Creation of God, and therefore it is evidence that God exists. Now, you can say I have no proof, but sorry stud, Christianity never claims to be made up of truth, but of faith.
socofanjm 2 years ago
You are yet again tap dancing here. Where I am getting at is very simple, you can make any claim you want but in order to be taken seriously, you need to provide the rationale and the evidence.
''The earth is the Creation of God, and therefore it is evidence that God exists.''
I am sorry, the universe is evidence of its own existence. Your claim is as ludicrous as saying that presents under the Christmas tree is evidence that Santa exists...
wynd2007 2 years ago
I am confused by your message here: On one side you say that the Earth is evidence for your god and on the other, you say that Christianity doesn't claim to be made of truth but faith.
I know that the god concept and religion aren't exclusive to each other, but your reply doesn't make much sense....
wynd2007 2 years ago
Sorry, I know its wierd trying to type it. Well, I never accepted God because of evidence or proof that God existed. I was just saying that what I may see as evidence may not be what you feel is evidence. I believe that God created the world, and that the world is in fact his craft, But you may not see it as evidence because you don't believe in God. I hope that cleared it up.
socofanjm 2 years ago
Fair enough.
wynd2007 2 years ago
if you go to a car dealer and you want an used car. the salesman tells you to have faith in the car, that the car won't fall apart in the next 100 miles. do you believe that? Don't you even question that? Now replace the salesman with God and the car with heaven/his abilities then you have the same based faith. Faith is just blindly following something without questioning with the result that it might be wrong.
robinvan1983 2 years ago
Well, I wouldn't be following God blindly. if you knew that Car salesman personally, that He fed the poor, that He was ever loving, yet serious, would you not trust that salesman. I know God, I know what Has done, I know what He can do, and therefore I am not just trusting some stranger but someone I know personally. But, true faith is kinda blind. When I say this, I mean that I would follow God no matter what he would want me to do. But, because I believe in God, I don't see it as wrong.
socofanjm 2 years ago
so if a god told you to rape a child, you would do it?
avalsonline 2 years ago
Now let's take a look at that car salesman. What if you knew that he'd been convicted of mass murdering a bunch of children? Would you still trust him? Your god in the bible wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah, and every human but Noah (& family). He told his followers to kill off every living thing in an entire city--and he was specific about infants and children. I know this character, too, by his own alleged word in the bible. I wouldn't trust him to mow my lawn.
laraesque 2 years ago
Yes, if a god told him to rape a child he would do it.
Skindoggiedog 2 years ago
Throughout history, a lot of people claimed that their deities created the earth. There is nothing that makes your claims that your deity created it any more valid than any other deity. They all seem to be supernatural explanations to substitute for the words, "I don't know." The universe is. There is nothing in it's existence to demonstrate a conscious maker.
laraesque 2 years ago
So you think God is a thug? Basically you are describing God as Joe Pesci in GoodFellas.
No thanks. I'll worship Dionysus. He was more fun. And if we are going around deciding to worship invisible men, then I'll pick someone fun, not a homicidal maniac
boyinthedrain 2 years ago
The Creator of life. It's as simple as that. Well, there are certain parts of the bible that everyone can interpret differently, and at times all interpretations are are what is being used. However, many of the stories and the morals of the bible are comprehensible. If you choose to pay attention or not, it is one's own fault for not understanding.
socofanjm 2 years ago
I pay attention to it
i just think someone who says rape is OK, slavery is OK, women are inferior and loves to kill children is immoral.
I don't worship immoral beings.
I am much more moral than God. So are you. God is a thug.
Don't worship thugs
boyinthedrain 2 years ago 5
''But atheist, like yourself, do not wanna let go of themselves and acknowledge God because they do not want to obey God.''
This argument isn't very convincing. Let's change its wording here and see what happens:
''But Christians, like yourself, do not wanna let go of themselves and acknowledge Allah because they do not want to obey Allah.''
Would anyone take a Muslim making this claim seriously? Or any other person making a positive claim about anything? (Aliens, Bigfoot, deities, etc...)
wynd2007 2 years ago
Also, the time period of the Old Testament was more fierce because the people of the time were held more accountable for their actions. The Laws of Moses were to keep people from becoming outstanding sinners, and the consequences were harsh because they knew about God. Sometimes we question our Father for the actions He makes, but although we may not understand them (since we are imperfect) He is a righteous God to all extents.
socofanjm 2 years ago
I am sorry to inform you that according to my moral standards, your god is a monster.
wynd2007 2 years ago 2
whoops. i rated 2 stars while trying to click play :[
thepontingxtreme 2 years ago
You sicken me!
Proletariat12 2 years ago
So, Lot offered his engaged, virgin daughters to a horny mob so that they would not rape the angels, who are angels aka embodiments of Gods will on Earth and therefore could simply have waived their hands and miracled the mob away, he then gets drunk and has sex with his own daughters, and he's the most righteous christian... If that's right I'm very grateful that I'm wrong.
imnoromeo 3 years ago
Well, first of all, The mob wasn't much of a threat to the angels nor to Lot. Lot wanted to save the people of these cities and that is why, out of last minute desperation I suppose, offered his daughters to help save someone. Lastly, Lot did not get himself drunk to have sex with his daughters, but it was his daughters who got Lot drunk to have sex with him in order to conceive children.
socofanjm 2 years ago
And if that apologist evasion of the fact Lot had his daughters raped and then had sex with them comforts you or somehow makes these barbaric bronze age beliefs more palatable to you, GREAT! But keep in mind that just because you've chosen to gloss over what the bible actually says in favor of what you want it to say doesn't give your beliefs any additional viability to those who see rape and incest as abominations regardless of what excuses or evasions your imaginary friend has come up with.
imnoromeo 2 years ago
Have you read the bible? Or are you just making your own assumptions to suit your need. It say that Lot's daughters were contemplating to get their father drunk in order to have sex with them. You might wanna read it before you yell out your presumptuous conclusions. But, just because you've chosen to gloss over what the bible actually says in favor of what you want it to say doesn't give your beliefs any additional viability.
socofanjm 2 years ago
Not only have I read several different versions of the bible I attended Roman Catholic seminary college for several years. You have consistantly missed the point of each statement I've made, and honestly I think you must be doing it intentionally, thusly I have nothing more to say to you. If you cannot see the gapping hole in your morality and ethics that this discussion has revealed you truly are lost in righteous ignorance.
imnoromeo 2 years ago
Your schooling means nothing since you didn't learn to stick to the truth. You state that just because one man flawed, you deny the Truth. But, stating that I have missed your points is a complete fallacy since you only pointed out strawman arguments. I have never heard of Lot being the most righteous Christian, and understand I never really cared when I began growing up. But, even the most righteous man was imperfect, and as we succumb to stress I am pretty sure he did to.
socofanjm 2 years ago
I also was upset by this when I read it, and it made me question my faith just a little. But I began thinking, so many people flawed, who were outstanding in the bible, but they too had flaws. I cannot say I am denying that what Lot did was wrong, but He isn't, nor never stated to be perfect. I really hope that you understand that the only two characters in the bible that are perfect are God and Christ, the rest are prone to sin.
socofanjm 2 years ago
The reason you felt a question to your faith is that rationally you know these stories and myths cannot be true but you want it to be SO badly you willingingly blind yourself to reality by suppressing such questions with apologetist justifications and confirmation bias. Notice I have not said religion is untrue or that God does not exist, just that the absolute moral code of the bible isn't as moral as people claim.
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence.
imnoromeo 2 years ago
I understand what you say about a wrong moral code. Are you talking about people like Lot, King Solomon, King Danielle, Mosses, Peter, and a whole bunch of others? If you notice, they all did ungodly things. Both David and Solomon had multiple wives and strayed away from God, and Lot did what He did. But they are imperfect as are we. We should strive to be like God and use Jesus as an example because his moral code is not off. But, I do, now, understand what you mean about a wrong moral code.
socofanjm 2 years ago
God himself had a wrong moral code. I see why the Old Testament needed a sequel. What holds followers to their religion so tightly isnt a matter of logic, its a matter of emotion. Nobody wants to let go of their belief & realize that the man in the sky who always took care of u, who always made u feel safe & gave u hope in your time of need w/ promises of a blissful afterlife ISNT REAL! trust me, i dont want to step on ur faith. just dont impose ur faith on the rights of every1 else & we're good
Key2daUnderground 2 years ago
Your words do not infringe my faith one bit. I hear this all the time, and I know why you say what you say because I told myself the exact same lie everyday last year. But atheist, like yourself, do not wanna let go of themselves and acknowledge God because they do not want to obey God. So they make up excuses and false testemonies to believe otherwise and soon, a lie becomes the truth to them. They run away from God not because He is "unjust" but because they are.
socofanjm 2 years ago
Sigh. Atheism is simply the lack of belief in the claim that a god exists.
Every bit of terminology you used here assumes that atheists believes in that character to start with when it isn't the case.
But, before even bringing up arguments in favor of your particular flavor of god, I'd be very curious to see if you could at least establish a coherent and positive ontology for your concept of a deity...
wynd2007 2 years ago 2
This atheist would never follow such an amoral deity, even if proven real. I've read the bible. No way would I ever follow a god that (Isaiah 13:16) orders "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." This is just one sample of this barbaric god of death and sadism. I don't care if he puts on a new face as Jesus. I would never trust a mass murderer no matter how he claims to have reformed.
laraesque 2 years ago
"just dont impose ur faith on the rights of every1 else & we're good" Here, here! If you think marrying someone of the same gender is wrong, don't do it. But don't impose your religion on others. Let laws reflect society, not religion. Secular law states that murder is wrong. "Thou shalt not kill" agrees with that. But if you decide tomorrow that disobedient chidren should be stoned to death, because it says so in the bible, I will fight you, as will any rational person.
laraesque 2 years ago 2
The wrong moral code is of the alleged deity, not the people in it. This god repeatedly orders the deaths of babies throughout the bible. This is immoral. He states that if children get too unruly, they should be stoned to death. This is unconscionable. The list of things your lord says to kill people for is ludicrous, immoral, and irrational. He wipes out all of humanity once--including innocent babies and children--and plans on doing it again. Mass murder is not in any way moral.
laraesque 2 years ago
"Your schooling means nothing" His schooling means that he has spent a great deal of time studying the Bible. In your earlier retort, you said "Have you read the Bible?" as if attacking his arguments because of his lack of study. Then when he gives evidence of his study of the bible, you also scoff at that. You are quick to reject arguments from one who has not read or one who has read the bible repeatedly. You can't have it both ways.
laraesque 2 years ago 3
Forget Lot. When your deity wipes out a whole city (or humanity in the flood), babies and children are killed along with the supposed evil ones. If you think that's moral, then please save me and my children from people like you. With the next mass murder he plans, only the believers get a free ticket to heaven--that means the ones lucky enough to be born in a Christian family and keep their faith. All those--including babies and children--born under another faith get eternal torture--immoral.
laraesque 2 years ago 2
Even Christians themselves can't interpret their own holy book properly. When you have 30 000 denominations of a same religion stemming from different interpretations of a single book, it sounds ludicrous to lecture anyone about not understanding or interpreting their holy book properly...
wynd2007 2 years ago 2
Ed McMahon is the Anti Christ.
000SMITH000 3 years ago
Ed McMahon is the Anti Christ.
000SMITH000 3 years ago
listen to the village people song soddom and gomorah...
its the story set to disco...seriously.
mcalien24 3 years ago
"God really wrote some wicked shit!"
GuitarSnipper 3 years ago
Whats the big deal with virgins? Ill take a experienced woman any day over a virgin, thats just gunna lay there the whole time anyway.
revemupman 3 years ago
Yeah, virgins and blood. The bible god loves those.
BananaHurricane 3 years ago
yeah its really sick, these religious books have a thing for young innocent girls and the more painful the sex for the girl the better. :s
kendrawhisp 2 years ago
It's funny how no babble guy even tried to reply to this.
kaminarigaston 3 years ago
What is the moral of this story. I mean God wrote the infaliable Bible and sent it to us for us to follow and take as our law and the bases of our lives so what do we take of this? No matter what don't be gay and don't have virgin daughters, and if your daughters are so ugly that no one will get them pregnate then you must man up Big Time. I wish christians would really stand us and explain why the hell this story would ever be told except to say that you sleep with anything when your drunk.
GillerMonster 3 years ago 4
exactly man, the bible is saying "hey everyone has a crazy night, and sometimes you bang someone you regret later. God understands."
evacuationplanb 3 years ago 8
I don't think that this story can even be used against homosexuality. The fact is women of the time were considered less than men. Raping a woman was not as bad as raping a man. There's nothing in the story to suggest that god is against consensual gay relations.
In fact it's not even just an issue of whether they rape men or women, what they're wanting to do is rape angels. I'm pretty sure that was Lots main motivation for offering his daughters instead... or would be if it were a true story
andytoz 3 years ago
Well there is another incident in Judges almost just like this one except the visitor isn't an angel and he offers up his concubine and the house owner also offers up his daughter but the crowd only wanted the concubine. And of course they rape and abuse her all night till morning comes where she crawls back to the door and dies. And then her great man cuts her into 12 pieces and sends her body parts to country of the inheritance of Israel because he was a sick f*ck.
GillerMonster 3 years ago
Holy shit. Seriously, holy freakin shit :O
andytoz 3 years ago
god want everyone to cut back on their salt intake
alpharaptor1 3 years ago 2
What an utterly stupid story. Anyone who even indirectly defends this is borderline psychotic.
transhuman3030 3 years ago 11
If Lot is most righteous man there than I dont want to meet an unrighteous man there!
ThePissedOffAtheist 3 years ago 7
If I had virgin daughters I would be ashamed because they lack experience^^lol
HumanStrategy 3 years ago 4
I remember learning about this in religious school and thinking "what the fuck!"
MicheasTheMighty 3 years ago 8
bacon?
Wuzzles2 3 years ago
I AM THE MOST RIGHTEOUS, sadly I have no virgin daughters.
spongertillidie 3 years ago 7