"The man sees the pregnant woman as more vulnerable and easier to beat up."
"...the right to beat your wife without any interference."
"[paraphrase] When you're pregnant, while I think you should tell the father, it's totally understandable if you don't. I mean, he might be an abuser."
Serious question: Do you expect anyone with a functional brain to perceive you as having any credibility whatsoever?
I'm all for abortion rights...we have a serious population problem on this planet. But feminism is either patently sexist or has an expiration date. Assuming feminism will succeed in creating equality, it is destined to become sexist the instant it does so and every instant after. Are we to believe that feminism will disband the instant equality is acheived? Is that consistent with human nature as we understand it? Moreover if only women's rights are championed, how are we to know?
@CriminalQueer I'm saying that if feminists are the agent of change as well as the judge of when equality is acheived, are we to trust that they will ask for women's rights only to the point of equality and not more? Is it human nature to only take what is fair, or do they generally press the advantage? As long as feminism only advocates women's rights, it cannot be trusted to ensure equality. I have never heard of a feminist group speak out against anti-male sexism.
@Snakepliskinist Oh. Well, have a look at some feminist blogs and you'll see. Mostly we're just asking to not be raped, to have control over our own bodies (e.g. legal abortion), to be paid the same amount for the same work, and not to have stereotyped/absurd things expected of us.
Also, the main tenet of most feminists is that we are against the patriarchy -- which harms, restricts, and stereotypes men as well as women. So once we're rid of it, everyone will be better off.
@Snakepliskinist As for feminist groups never speaking out against anti-male sexism, may I recommend the Good Men Project, noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz (a wordpress blog), and Toy Soldiers. Men can be feminists too.
MRA's are the most sexist, hate filled people on youtube and since most youtubers are conservative quacky boys/men, anything that is pro-female on youtube will have a tremendous amount of thumbs down. They whine and bitch that feminists whine and bitch and they are the biggest hypocrites on youtube.
@rainbowbrainhead Aww. Another lazy ass feminist who can't handle the truth. Feminists are obnoxious bigots. Doesn't it strike you that even women are thumbing down feminist videos on YT? Anti-feminism is NOT anti-woman. The women who are against feminism don't hate themselves. Feminists are pathetic hypocrites.
@bluestars982 Most antifeminists are men. How do I know this? Because I've been on youtube long enough to read a good deal of the comments from people to know. In fact, most women will come out and say "i'm a woman and I dont' like this' but they are in the minority. It is only biggoted men such as yourself who's the hypocrite and not me. You obviously are too emotional to even discuss this subject in a logical manner. More women are employed in the west than men so it's MEN who are lazy.
@rainbowbrainhead So you base everything on youtube videos? Yeah that sounds like something a feminist would say. If you want to see a bigot look in the mirror. More women are employed because of affirmative action type laws. Quotas. They are also graduating college at a higher rate due to the fact that the government gives them handouts to succeed where men are given nothing. Women are given a reason to go to college. Men are given a reason not to.
@bluestars982 Everytime you type something you're more and more hypocritical. Yeah, I suppose blacks and other minorities also are helped by the same affirmative action laws but I don't see you complaining about that. What jobs do women hold that you want? Hairdresser? Panty salesman? I'm curious what jobs women hold you want. Men can go to college just as men as a woman can. You're a bigger whinger than the feminists you fingerpoint at. Get a job lazy ass apeshape.
@rainbowbrainhead lazy ass apeshape? That's a new one. How long did it take you to come up with that? Hiring ANYBODY because someone has to fulfill a fucking quota is ridiculous. I didn't say men couldn't go to college. I'm saying there is NO incentive to go. Whose fault is that? Feminists. They created this culture.
@bluestars982 Yes well we all know what happened before Affirmative Action now don't we? I guess you white male supremacists are still butt hurt over the fact that you don't hold EVERY SINGLE JOB in America but according to our government, there's a lot of jobs that only hispanics are willing to do. How come you white men aren't out picking ripe fruit every summer out west? Nope sorry it is not feminists who created this problem. It's still a male run country.
@rainbowbrainhead How come women aren't picking up my garbage each week? How come women aren't plowing the streets after a snowstorm? How come women aren't repairing power lines in the darkness after a storm? Funny how you claim equality but you don't want to actually work. AA is stupid on all counts. People should be hired on skills and experience and nothing else. The people who run the country happen to be mostly men. "Men" don't run the country.
@rainbowbrainhead LOL. How old are you little girl? I've lived for 39 years in the most anti-male society in our history. The only hypocrites are feminists. Liars and cry-babies. Feminists are full of anger and hatred because they don't have a dick. Feminists are also incapable of debate. When presented with the truth their usual response is some sort of shaming tactic. Nice try. It won't work anymore.
@bluestars982 What did you base your 'theory' on that feminists are lazy and obnoxious bigots? Certainly I can bet you've met very few feminists who meet this criteria. You are generalizing yet you see fit to chastize me for actually HAVING EVIDENCE in black and white? Right. Very illogical thinking on your part. Exactly how did I attempt to shame YOU? You're the one who immediately started flinging dirt at my comments so you're pretty hypocritical.
@rainbowbrainhead They argue for equality but instead they want equal outcome. Get the same things men get without any responsibilities. In other words, without doing the actual work. Let's bitch, whine, and cry to our ultimate protectors (the government) and they'll give it to us on a silver platter. That's laziness.
@TrueBlueCanuck Of course you have no logical argument and resort to name calling. Way to go you idiot. You just proved everything she said was right.
The problem I have with this video is that I don't believe women were ever oppressed - ever. Men were never "above" women. How do I come to this conclusion? It was men who sacrificed their seats in the lifeboats when the Titanic went down. Chew on that for awhile and when you get back to me, please explain this paradox.
@shmiggen Really? That's your one piece of evidence? Okay, how about this: women weren't allowed the right to vote until 1920 in America and 1928 in Britain, in most countries it was legal to rape your wife up until the 1980s/1990s (and in some places still is), women could not inherit property - in Britain at least - up until about 1882, and right now women are under constant danger of being fired for having children (whereas men have no such problem).
@CriminalQueer I will respond to you with information regarding voting rights, etc, but there is one thing I would like you to respond to first. If women were oppressed historically, please explain how it was that men went down with the Titanic while the women and children were rescued in lifeboats. Please explain this paradox, first.
@shmiggen Because they were considered weaker than men (on the same level as children, as you have unintentionally pointed out).
Also, your example is shit. Explain to me how women were not oppressed historically when in 1849 Tennessee legislature, they were not allowed to own property because they didn't have souls.
@CriminalQueer You are applying today's modern understanding of men and women and misapplying it to the past, as though male and female behavior is constant throughout time. They gave them seats in the lifeboat because they actually WERE weaker than men. The response to this imbalance was "chivalry". So women were actually privileged in the past - they never had to scrape for a living in coal mines, men had to. They never had to fight on a battlefield - men had to. Women were privileged.
@shmiggen No, women had to scrape for a living in other ways -- in the fields, for example, and later in factories, shops, and other things that men also did. Also women DID work in the coal mines, e.g. France in the 1860s and before. Your ideas about labour and gender are deluded.
Not owning property is not a symbol is oppression. It is a privilege. Owning property in 1849 required raw manual labor, and no woman was capable of working the land herself. It required brute strength. Once technology dominated the environment, women were allowed to own property. Remember: not owning property is a privilege, because it means you will be pedestalized, and women like to be treated like princesses.
@shmiggen That is a load of bullshit. Not owning property means that you are severely limited in the ways you can make money, which means you are always dependent on others. This is NOT a privilege, this is a restriction.
Respond to this video...Men were not allowed the vote until 1918 in Britain, so there is only a ten year period of time where women were discriminated against. Keep in mind that it was mostly other women who did not want women to vote, as it was believed that it would lead to the undermining of families. It wasn't legal to rape your wife - it was considered a wife's duty to sex her husband. That was redefined to "rape" so that it would no longer be a wife's duty.
@shmiggen No, men were allowed the vote - it was working class men who were only allowed it in 1918. But that is how we had a parliament, prime ministers, etc -- through middle to upper class male voting. That women thought other women shouldn't be allowed the vote is irrelevant.
I will assume from your last comment that you still think a woman can't be raped if she's married. If I see another comment like that in the long list of comments that you've left me, I will block you.
Respond to this video...Women could not inherit property because they were much less productive back then. That kind of economy required raw manual labor, not "connectivity". Once the economy changed and new feminine skills were required, women were allowed to inherit property. Yes, in a capitalistic society, you can be fired if you are "costly". A pregnant woman is much more expensive than a man, so I don't blame anyone for hiring a man instead. The only way out of that is pure communism
@shmiggen I can only assume you don't understand what "inherit property" means. It means that if your family had lands and money and only one female heir, she couldn't inherit it -- it would go to her husband or the nearest male relative. It's nothing to do with jobs or the market.
Wow, you have a really distorted opinion of MRAs I know a lot of MRAs that never endorse any of the stereotypes you assert. If you are a feminist there is probably no chance you will understand why men are beginning to feel the way men feel. The guy you spoke to made a serious mistake, He bothered to have a discussion with a feminist. You also frame your dialogue with typical negative generalizations about men. If a man disagrees with a feminist he's automatically a misogynist
@KrazyChick17 I struggle to separate them in badness terms, really. But I will say that I see more calls of war/references to violence and bodily harm on MRA blogs than I do on those of radfems.
firstly not all MRA guys are sexist, just as many feminists are not sexist. however, in both cases there are sexist people. in fact there are feminist leaders who say that they have spoken to a number of perfectly reasonable MRA guys. having said that, you seem to not understand MRA. i implore you to research the Men's rights movement as well as other men's movement groups to try and have a better understanding. i think there are plenty of good issues MR's tackle.
@glitchesandglitter I agree with you; but as you may have guessed from the title, I am talking about one particular conversation I had with one particular guy. I apologise if you misread my intentions.
As I say in the video, I have no problem with people tackling those "good issues" that you mention -- I am using this guy as an example of who/what I DO have a problem with.
Why would any hetero male give a flying pig what some fat disgusting nigra bitch with a user name of "Criminal Queer" thinks about MENS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.
@6evorev6 I have many wives and mistresses who have born my bastard tadpoles. Of course this includes your wife and daughters. Feel free to rape and beat any women you want. I do.
@CriminalQueer also, i could bring up, as you have in the video, tons of sexist women who rail about men in horrible ways. however, that doesn't constitute feminism as being sexist. also, your idea that men have no reason to complain is sexist and narrow minded. not trying to offend, but what's the harm of men having their own group for their own issues as females do?
@glitchesandglitter "Sexist women" is not the same as "feminism". However, this particular guy self-identified as an MRA. Please see my other reply to you on why I talked about him.
Also, when did I say "men have no reason to complain"?
Women need to go change their "emotional diapers" and learn to grow up. We don't wanna hear a bunch of bullshit about abuse when they are 70% of the cause of domestic violence cases and mostly the people killing their children. They are babies that refuse to use logic unless their lawyer explains to them how to sue the living shit out of their husbands, then they listen.
Read the book "Mothers on Trial," which was recently updated. The"Father's rights" movement is mostly based on myths. In 70 percent of cases when the father asks for custody, he gets it. And custody is often given to abusive men because they are manipulative and men have more money to pay for lawyers. Women who are trying to protect their children from abusers are seen by the courts as hysterical and uncooperative. "Fathers' rights" is just another attempt for men to hang on their dominance.
@TribeJudah01Boadie This is completely backwards. 70% of all domestic violence cases are caused by women. Look up the stats from the CDC. Women are out to rob men with the help of greedy lawyers. Women abuse their children far more times then men and your comment is complete bullshit.
@TribeJudah01Boadie Oh really male privledge? What a sick joke & if you haven't looked around men are far from privledged in todays society,the MRM is nonviolent response to having our brothers & sons being thrown under a bus. And Criminal Queer's knowledge of history is very misguided & sense when did putting women above men cause equality? And it seems that from the video & comments it would seem that you have a hateful view of men which we call MISANDRY!
@crypter27 The irrational fear & hatred of men & boys & who ever said we wanted the right to smack women around? We MRA's are a nonviolent movement,all we want in that catigory is the right of due proccess which in recent times is the to be presumed innocent until proven & the right to a fair trial by jury which is written in both the constitution. And the Magnicarta & if you read vawa along with its British counter part,you'll find that vawa.
@crypter27 Its at odds with the bill of rights,because it has a primary agressor clause which states the man is always the primary agressor even if he calls the police because she's hitting him & this has happened allot,along. With the primary agressor statute a man can be held with out trial,but you think its empowering to hit men right? As for single motherhood,I'd let you in on some statistics from the CDC children of single mothers are 8 times more likely to be abused or killed!
@crypter27 By their mothers & children of single mothers are 5 times more likely to be repeat offenders various kinds of crimes,5 times more likely to get in to drugs along with prostitution! And maybe we should just pat you single mothers on the back for a job well done?
It seems that anytime a woman is held to the same level of accountability as men... it is characterized as misogynistic.
2. Equality... means across the board. By the current definition, you assume that the majority of women share your views and values... Many do not. When the female acts irresponsibly or ILLEGALLY, men have no recourse under the law. Research how many men are paying child support on kids that aren't theirs even after a DNA test proves they are NOT the father.
Anyway. Thumbed down just because of your response to RawTruthful. I was about to exit the page two minutes in, and didn't do it just to leave you this comment. I usually watch MIT lectures on YT so don´t you tell me i have a short attention span, and the fact that you make that assertion to RawTruthful, as someone you don't really know is reason enough to disregard whatever you say, in my opinion.
@Zebarbas I'm not going to apologise for that. It's my video and I will say whatever I like, whenever I like; and in the end, it's my problem. RawTruthful was rude to me, and didn't have the endurance to wait two minutes as he himself states in his comment. Besides, he could always have just skipped ahead in the video. As could you.
You started your video very badly. Not only did you take ages to get to the point, your first point was a piece of shit. If you disregard men's rights because of some sexists that align themselves with the movement than i can disregard feminism as a whole because of its most radical supporters. You other points are nothing new.
@Zebarbas Wow, way to mishear what I said. When did I ever say I "disregard men's rights"?! I said that most of the MRA's I've encountered have been sexist, and then went on to say that I had no problem with "people wanting to right a wrong" (i.e. when men's rights have been threatened) unless that wrong does not exist (i.e. women taking over the world, which is essentially what I've been told by some people).
@CriminalQueer I don't really see the point in putting a "men's rights discussion" video, and starting by pointing out the black sheep in the movement. There is no reason to even mention that if it wasn't your intention to remove credit from the movement by doing so.
It's like having a discussion on what is the best hat to wear, and starting by saying "Johnny and Joe next door wear this type of hat and they're both douchebags, so this hat type is only an expression of their douchebaggery".
@CriminalQueer Women just have different rights when it comes to bearing the child. The woman should have all the say when it comes to abortion. His arguments were shitty in that sense. Even though I disagree with anyone having to pay alimony. If the woman can choose to abort without te consensus of the father (whitch is only fair), the father should be able to ignore the existence of the child if he wishes to do so, and not fear legal reprecussions.
@Zebarbas You see, this debate has a fair amount of finesse, that you didn't really go in to, so, i saw this as only an excuse to call this particular guy a sexist, and, adding this to that statement in the beggining, to dismiss merit from the whole movement.
@Zebarbas I think you came into this with a perceived notion of what I think of things and what I want to do with my channel, and read whatever you wanted to into my video. You have done very little other than tell me what you think I was doing and present that opinion as fact, and back up some douche who couldn't be bothered to pay attention. I'm going to block you.
i believe that if i got my girlfriend pregnant i should have just as much say whether she would abort the baby, and that i should be able to take custody of the child if i believe she is an unfit mother...its crap that the mother is the default caretaker of the child right after birth and that if the man wants custody he has to go through a lengthy court process
@nschrock273 I think that you should have some say, but it is not your body (and potentially life) that is being risked. Though of course both partner's views should be considered, you should not be able to tell another person what to do with their own body. If she does have the baby, of course you should be able to have custody instead -- I didn't say you shouldn't.
And I agree: both parents should be default caretakers (unless there's a good reason for one of them not to be).
Oh my f***ing GOD! Why won't she get to the fucking point already?! I'm am already 2:21 into the video and she hasn't really gotten into the discussion yet. I won't torture myself waiting, I'm sorry. I was really hoping you had some valid points to make.
@CriminalQueer Look, I'm sorry, but you know I have a point. It took too damn long for your to get to the meat of the video. I'm pissed just thinking about how pissed I was back then. Anyway, PLEASE try to work on that part of yourself . We all have improvements to make, especially me.
I think you are kinda biased, (not implying you are a bad person) I advice you to do some serious research on the subject, if you want I can pass you some links?
@Kenshiroit What makes you think I have not done "serious research"? I have had to read feminist critiques as part of my study at University, and I have also read books on gender roles and equality in my spare time.
Just because you do not agree with me does not mean I am any less well-researched than yourself. We simply have different conclusions.
@CriminalQueer hi there, the reply was originally meant to bundleseyes, on her statement on misogyni, statics without facts ect. Somehow I mixed you to together. I even send you a pm by mistake.
@CriminalQueer a side note :-) I love talking to people who have different opinions and logically, conclusions. Otherwise that would make a debate pointless.
You. Absolutely. Rock. From the sounds of it, so does your boyfriend. Mine's pretty cool too, he's linked on my page. He gets called a mangina allll the time. It makes us both laugh.
This is my experience of men's rights activists. Completely misogynist, statistically without backing, etc. etc.
It's such a shame because I believe that some issues of the MRA movt. are important and should be discussed. Unfortunately the proponents are backwards and bigoted.
@BoundlessEyes Aww, thank you! =) And it sounds like both of our boyfriends rock too!
And I agree -- there should be debates about the restrictive nature of masculinity in the same manner as there are about femininity. But often they're too bogged down in blaming women/feminists for everything.
@CriminalQueer and sorry to say, but with good reason. It's not like a bunch of guys one sunday morning wakes up and blame feminism for everything. There are some serious issues outhere who are sistematically ignored and even denigrated. And feminism (who is a movement prevalent female, hence the word FEMINISM) not only ignores but many times actively try to stop the movement. And this is a shame.
@Kenshiroit Actually, in my experience that is exactly what some guys do.
Tell me about these issues.
As for the movement of men's rights itself, I suspect feminists only try to stop it when the people involved propagate sexist myths -- which in my experience, they often do.
@CriminalQueer 'Actually, in my experience that is exactly what some guys do.'
doesent that makes biased then? in my experience feminist's are unable to handle opposing view and having serious debate. But I dont generalice since my experience is limited to what I experience and my interpretation of my experiences. One person POV isd kinda limited: like yesterday a italian (im italian btw) stole my car; ergo all italian are car stealer....hope u understand me.
@Kenshiroit No. I'm just stating that, unlike what you said, my experience has been that some people do wake up and blame feminism for everything -- just like some people blame immigration.
I didn't generalise; I just pointed out that my experiences beg to differ. Besides, if "one person POV is kinda limited", doesn't that mean anything you say is a generalistion too?
It's hard to talk about these things without generalising, or at least saying "most people" or "some people."
@CriminalQueer yes I get your point but that's also what im doing from a limited point of view. Trying to communicate with other people in the effort to expanding my (our) limited understanding. It's partially true about the difficoulties talking without generalicing , but it's not impossible. But that depends by the topik and the context. So it's more complicated than that. but there is always a difference between a statement trown in the middle of a debate and true belief. true belief -cont
@Kenshiroit cont- true belief generally imply a closure from opposing imputs (close minded) and it ends in 'ideological battles' of quasi religious devotion. Ideological battle usually gets locked in to tribalism where this is impossible, though. For fear that if you give up one inch, your "enemy" will just take a mile.
But here it is the importance of communication and debate. Usually people who refute debate are also people who has a religious stance as dogma. And I dont belive it's our case.
@Kenshiroit I agree with you about the importance of communication and debate; I am VERY in favour of that.
However, I think that in our talks you're misinterpreting most of what I'm saying -- is there a language barrier here? I say this not to be offensive, but because you are replying to me in a way that suggests you haven't fully understood what I'm saying.
@CriminalQueer about the MRM again isnt that some personal bias? are u sure feminists only try to stop them because of myth? isnt that a bit mysandric? just think about that for a moment =)
@Kenshiroit No, it's not mysandric to try and stop men being sexist, just like it's not mysogny to stop women being sexist.
Also, I think you misunderstood me -- you say "because of myth". What I mean is that some MRAs endorse specific sexist myths, such as "all women are manipulative", which the MRA I was talking to thought was true - though he didn't say it as blatantly as that.
@CriminalQueer yes and no, yes it's true that it's not sexist trying to stop people being such, but it become sexist when somebody 'assumes' they are [...] because 'they are MRA/feminist's.
I agree on the last point, some women are manipulative, but that doesent mean all women are manipulative. just as some men are violent but that doesent mean all men are [...].
@Kenshiroit That's the point I'm trying to make! They don't "assume", some MRAs actually DO do these things. Most feminists - and, for that matter, people in general - require evidence of these things.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying very well. I wasn't saying women were manipulative -- I was saying the MRA I was talking to thought that. And he seemed to think ALL women were. I, of course , disagree with him.
@BoundlessEyes Im puzzled by your claims, yes there are misogynist outhere, but misandryst are not rare in the feminist movement and blogs either. So carefull with generalizations.
@BoundlessEyes hi, sorry I forgot to answer u on the commentaries, but yesterday i Pm u some links. YT sadly or fortuantely (spam) doesent allow link posting.
I think there are some instances(especially regarding parental rights) where fathers may have been discriminated against based on their sex, and these warrant further investigation and perhaps systemic change.
But that doesn't detract from the overall goals of feminism, which are yet to be fully realised.
What I find most disturbing are the mysogenists who hijack many honest conversations with their inane, blatant bigotry. When wit fails, turn up the noise.
I think I talk about my position on custody in the second video - basically, 50/50 unless there's good reason for it not to be.
And a second thank you for agreeing about feminism! XD You'd be amazed how many people think women now have it better than men.
As for misogynists...well, my other half's response to one was "So, what you're saying is....you're a complete dick." Which I wish I could say, but I like to give everyone a chance to argue. Still, made me laugh.
I think you're wholly niave on the discrimination against men. Men are often on the wrong end of sexual harassment claims and many times are innocent but this ends up costing them their careers or at least the anguish of job loss. Women tend to marry up and so in regards to alimony, its usually men turning into wage slaves to their ex-wives. In America, many times a women accuses men falsely of domestic abuse and are barred from seeing their children, without any evidence. A few examples.
@Solitas777 Could you give me some statistics or examples of these things?
RE sexual harassment - what is your solution to the problem of false claims?
RE alimony - would you ban it, then?
RE domestic abuse, do you not think that for the safety of the woman/children the man accused of domestic abuse should be removed and investigated? If you leave a domestic abuser there AFTER he is aware his wife has reported him to the police, horrible things would follow.
@CriminalQueer The statistics are out there. Men overwhelmingly are the ones ones paying alimony and getting accused. It's why many guys (the smart ones anyways) don't get married. As for false harassment claims, they should make laws criminalizing false claims as well as allow the acusee to counter sue for libel and slander. As for Alimony, ban it. No, I do not that think the man should be removed and investigated based on a claim with no evidence. Innocent until proven guilty.
@Solitas777 When it comes to alimony, I can believe that -- but I doubt that's based on discrimination. I think divorces are a personal matter, and one to be sorted out between the couple; the issue is not one of discrimination.
As for the marriage, I did a quick search, and in the UK both genders have been marrying less -- the women less than the men, in actual fact. I accept that the US may be a different matter though.
Aren't false claims illegal anyway, under the perjury law?
@CriminalQueer but divorces uintil now favores the female. She has everything to gain, while the man usually loses everything.
About marriages you state : and in the UK both genders have been marrying less -- the women less than the men, in actual fact. u say women are marrying less than men....So who are the men marrying?
About false claims yes they are under the perjury law, but the punishment are ridicolous and usually the offender go unpunished.
@Kenshiroit I doubt it. Both partners potentially have everything to lose, depending on the reason for divorce and their lawyers. Have you any statistics for your assertion?
I don't understand the point of your question about who the men are marrying; but I think what might have happened is that UK men are marrying women outside the country. This is only speculation, though.
As for false claims, if that is true then I think it should be changed.
@Solitas777 And I'm fairly sure the defendant can always counter-sue.
And I agree, innocent until proven guilty -- but you have to consider the safety of the family. He shouldn't be punished until evidence is brought forward, but he should be removed from the house. As I said before, the longer a domestic abuser is in the home, the more likely it becomes that serious violence will occur. I would rather wrongly take a man out of the house for a short time than risk his family being harmed.
@CriminalQueer about the safety of the family, does it also count when the woman is the offender? because if not, then it's flawed already from the premice.
@CriminalQueer Let me ask you this. If a man accuses his wife of a child abuse should she be removed from here only home (made homeless) and barred from seeing her kid based on an accusation? Doesn't seem very just to me.
@Solitas777 Yes, she should for the time being, for the safety of the man and of the child. And then the proper investigations should be carried out, and if the claim is false she should be restored to the home. Same goes if a woman accuses a man of domestic abuse.
"The man sees the pregnant woman as more vulnerable and easier to beat up."
"...the right to beat your wife without any interference."
"[paraphrase] When you're pregnant, while I think you should tell the father, it's totally understandable if you don't. I mean, he might be an abuser."
Serious question: Do you expect anyone with a functional brain to perceive you as having any credibility whatsoever?
OthelloCarmellow 12 hours ago
@OthelloCarmellow Yep, you just go ahead and connect two completely unrelated quotes there.
The first quote is a reference to specifically domestic abusers.
The second quote is a reference to the fact that there weren't any domestic abuse laws for a very long time.
I said it's understandable not to tell the father if he IS an abuser, not if he "might" be, because anybody might be.
So yeah, good listening comprehension there!
CriminalQueer 9 hours ago
I'm all for abortion rights...we have a serious population problem on this planet. But feminism is either patently sexist or has an expiration date. Assuming feminism will succeed in creating equality, it is destined to become sexist the instant it does so and every instant after. Are we to believe that feminism will disband the instant equality is acheived? Is that consistent with human nature as we understand it? Moreover if only women's rights are championed, how are we to know?
Snakepliskinist 4 weeks ago
@Snakepliskinist If feminism creates an equal society, it will cease to be. We will be happy. That is all.
As for human nature, it depends who you ask. In my view, once people have got what they want, they stop asking for it.
I don't really understand what your last question is asking.
CriminalQueer 4 weeks ago
@CriminalQueer I'm saying that if feminists are the agent of change as well as the judge of when equality is acheived, are we to trust that they will ask for women's rights only to the point of equality and not more? Is it human nature to only take what is fair, or do they generally press the advantage? As long as feminism only advocates women's rights, it cannot be trusted to ensure equality. I have never heard of a feminist group speak out against anti-male sexism.
Snakepliskinist 4 weeks ago
@Snakepliskinist Oh. Well, have a look at some feminist blogs and you'll see. Mostly we're just asking to not be raped, to have control over our own bodies (e.g. legal abortion), to be paid the same amount for the same work, and not to have stereotyped/absurd things expected of us.
Also, the main tenet of most feminists is that we are against the patriarchy -- which harms, restricts, and stereotypes men as well as women. So once we're rid of it, everyone will be better off.
CriminalQueer 4 weeks ago
@Snakepliskinist As for feminist groups never speaking out against anti-male sexism, may I recommend the Good Men Project, noseriouslywhatabouttehmenz (a wordpress blog), and Toy Soldiers. Men can be feminists too.
CriminalQueer 4 weeks ago
MRA's are the most sexist, hate filled people on youtube and since most youtubers are conservative quacky boys/men, anything that is pro-female on youtube will have a tremendous amount of thumbs down. They whine and bitch that feminists whine and bitch and they are the biggest hypocrites on youtube.
rainbowbrainhead 1 month ago
@rainbowbrainhead Aww. Another lazy ass feminist who can't handle the truth. Feminists are obnoxious bigots. Doesn't it strike you that even women are thumbing down feminist videos on YT? Anti-feminism is NOT anti-woman. The women who are against feminism don't hate themselves. Feminists are pathetic hypocrites.
bluestars982 4 weeks ago
@bluestars982 Most antifeminists are men. How do I know this? Because I've been on youtube long enough to read a good deal of the comments from people to know. In fact, most women will come out and say "i'm a woman and I dont' like this' but they are in the minority. It is only biggoted men such as yourself who's the hypocrite and not me. You obviously are too emotional to even discuss this subject in a logical manner. More women are employed in the west than men so it's MEN who are lazy.
rainbowbrainhead 4 weeks ago
@rainbowbrainhead So you base everything on youtube videos? Yeah that sounds like something a feminist would say. If you want to see a bigot look in the mirror. More women are employed because of affirmative action type laws. Quotas. They are also graduating college at a higher rate due to the fact that the government gives them handouts to succeed where men are given nothing. Women are given a reason to go to college. Men are given a reason not to.
bluestars982 4 weeks ago
@bluestars982 Everytime you type something you're more and more hypocritical. Yeah, I suppose blacks and other minorities also are helped by the same affirmative action laws but I don't see you complaining about that. What jobs do women hold that you want? Hairdresser? Panty salesman? I'm curious what jobs women hold you want. Men can go to college just as men as a woman can. You're a bigger whinger than the feminists you fingerpoint at. Get a job lazy ass apeshape.
rainbowbrainhead 4 weeks ago
@rainbowbrainhead lazy ass apeshape? That's a new one. How long did it take you to come up with that? Hiring ANYBODY because someone has to fulfill a fucking quota is ridiculous. I didn't say men couldn't go to college. I'm saying there is NO incentive to go. Whose fault is that? Feminists. They created this culture.
bluestars982 4 weeks ago
@bluestars982 Yes well we all know what happened before Affirmative Action now don't we? I guess you white male supremacists are still butt hurt over the fact that you don't hold EVERY SINGLE JOB in America but according to our government, there's a lot of jobs that only hispanics are willing to do. How come you white men aren't out picking ripe fruit every summer out west? Nope sorry it is not feminists who created this problem. It's still a male run country.
rainbowbrainhead 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
bluestars982 3 weeks ago
@rainbowbrainhead How come women aren't picking up my garbage each week? How come women aren't plowing the streets after a snowstorm? How come women aren't repairing power lines in the darkness after a storm? Funny how you claim equality but you don't want to actually work. AA is stupid on all counts. People should be hired on skills and experience and nothing else. The people who run the country happen to be mostly men. "Men" don't run the country.
bluestars982 3 weeks ago
@bluestars982 You still never answered why you're not complaining that Affirmative Action also protects minorities...
rainbowbrainhead 3 weeks ago
@rainbowbrainhead LOL. How old are you little girl? I've lived for 39 years in the most anti-male society in our history. The only hypocrites are feminists. Liars and cry-babies. Feminists are full of anger and hatred because they don't have a dick. Feminists are also incapable of debate. When presented with the truth their usual response is some sort of shaming tactic. Nice try. It won't work anymore.
bluestars982 4 weeks ago
@bluestars982 What did you base your 'theory' on that feminists are lazy and obnoxious bigots? Certainly I can bet you've met very few feminists who meet this criteria. You are generalizing yet you see fit to chastize me for actually HAVING EVIDENCE in black and white? Right. Very illogical thinking on your part. Exactly how did I attempt to shame YOU? You're the one who immediately started flinging dirt at my comments so you're pretty hypocritical.
rainbowbrainhead 4 weeks ago
@rainbowbrainhead They argue for equality but instead they want equal outcome. Get the same things men get without any responsibilities. In other words, without doing the actual work. Let's bitch, whine, and cry to our ultimate protectors (the government) and they'll give it to us on a silver platter. That's laziness.
bluestars982 4 weeks ago
shut the fuck up you sexist bitch
TrueBlueCanuck 1 month ago
@TrueBlueCanuck Enlightening and intelligent contribution to the discussion there.
CriminalQueer 1 month ago
@TrueBlueCanuck Of course you have no logical argument and resort to name calling. Way to go you idiot. You just proved everything she said was right.
rainbowbrainhead 1 month ago
Excellent breakdown of feminism here: owningyourshit dot blogspot dot com
She also has YT videos: girlwriteswhat channel.
shmiggen 3 months ago
The problem I have with this video is that I don't believe women were ever oppressed - ever. Men were never "above" women. How do I come to this conclusion? It was men who sacrificed their seats in the lifeboats when the Titanic went down. Chew on that for awhile and when you get back to me, please explain this paradox.
shmiggen 3 months ago
@shmiggen Really? That's your one piece of evidence? Okay, how about this: women weren't allowed the right to vote until 1920 in America and 1928 in Britain, in most countries it was legal to rape your wife up until the 1980s/1990s (and in some places still is), women could not inherit property - in Britain at least - up until about 1882, and right now women are under constant danger of being fired for having children (whereas men have no such problem).
CriminalQueer 3 months ago
@CriminalQueer I will respond to you with information regarding voting rights, etc, but there is one thing I would like you to respond to first. If women were oppressed historically, please explain how it was that men went down with the Titanic while the women and children were rescued in lifeboats. Please explain this paradox, first.
shmiggen 3 months ago
@shmiggen Because they were considered weaker than men (on the same level as children, as you have unintentionally pointed out).
Also, your example is shit. Explain to me how women were not oppressed historically when in 1849 Tennessee legislature, they were not allowed to own property because they didn't have souls.
CriminalQueer 3 months ago
@CriminalQueer You are applying today's modern understanding of men and women and misapplying it to the past, as though male and female behavior is constant throughout time. They gave them seats in the lifeboat because they actually WERE weaker than men. The response to this imbalance was "chivalry". So women were actually privileged in the past - they never had to scrape for a living in coal mines, men had to. They never had to fight on a battlefield - men had to. Women were privileged.
shmiggen 3 months ago
@shmiggen No, women had to scrape for a living in other ways -- in the fields, for example, and later in factories, shops, and other things that men also did. Also women DID work in the coal mines, e.g. France in the 1860s and before. Your ideas about labour and gender are deluded.
CriminalQueer 3 months ago
Not owning property is not a symbol is oppression. It is a privilege. Owning property in 1849 required raw manual labor, and no woman was capable of working the land herself. It required brute strength. Once technology dominated the environment, women were allowed to own property. Remember: not owning property is a privilege, because it means you will be pedestalized, and women like to be treated like princesses.
shmiggen 3 months ago
@shmiggen That is a load of bullshit. Not owning property means that you are severely limited in the ways you can make money, which means you are always dependent on others. This is NOT a privilege, this is a restriction.
CriminalQueer 3 months ago
Respond to this video...Men were not allowed the vote until 1918 in Britain, so there is only a ten year period of time where women were discriminated against. Keep in mind that it was mostly other women who did not want women to vote, as it was believed that it would lead to the undermining of families. It wasn't legal to rape your wife - it was considered a wife's duty to sex her husband. That was redefined to "rape" so that it would no longer be a wife's duty.
shmiggen 3 months ago
@shmiggen No, men were allowed the vote - it was working class men who were only allowed it in 1918. But that is how we had a parliament, prime ministers, etc -- through middle to upper class male voting. That women thought other women shouldn't be allowed the vote is irrelevant.
I will assume from your last comment that you still think a woman can't be raped if she's married. If I see another comment like that in the long list of comments that you've left me, I will block you.
CriminalQueer 3 months ago
Respond to this video...Women could not inherit property because they were much less productive back then. That kind of economy required raw manual labor, not "connectivity". Once the economy changed and new feminine skills were required, women were allowed to inherit property. Yes, in a capitalistic society, you can be fired if you are "costly". A pregnant woman is much more expensive than a man, so I don't blame anyone for hiring a man instead. The only way out of that is pure communism
shmiggen 3 months ago
@shmiggen I can only assume you don't understand what "inherit property" means. It means that if your family had lands and money and only one female heir, she couldn't inherit it -- it would go to her husband or the nearest male relative. It's nothing to do with jobs or the market.
CriminalQueer 3 months ago
Wow, you have a really distorted opinion of MRAs I know a lot of MRAs that never endorse any of the stereotypes you assert. If you are a feminist there is probably no chance you will understand why men are beginning to feel the way men feel. The guy you spoke to made a serious mistake, He bothered to have a discussion with a feminist. You also frame your dialogue with typical negative generalizations about men. If a man disagrees with a feminist he's automatically a misogynist
blackburn9 4 months ago
Men's Rights = Equal protection of the law and equal protection of governmen.
Feminism = hate.
Simple.
thrimironaxe 6 months ago
@thrimironaxe MRA's are just as bad as feminazi's, if not worse!
KrazyChick17 1 month ago
@KrazyChick17 I struggle to separate them in badness terms, really. But I will say that I see more calls of war/references to violence and bodily harm on MRA blogs than I do on those of radfems.
CriminalQueer 1 month ago
firstly not all MRA guys are sexist, just as many feminists are not sexist. however, in both cases there are sexist people. in fact there are feminist leaders who say that they have spoken to a number of perfectly reasonable MRA guys. having said that, you seem to not understand MRA. i implore you to research the Men's rights movement as well as other men's movement groups to try and have a better understanding. i think there are plenty of good issues MR's tackle.
glitchesandglitter 7 months ago
@glitchesandglitter I agree with you; but as you may have guessed from the title, I am talking about one particular conversation I had with one particular guy. I apologise if you misread my intentions.
As I say in the video, I have no problem with people tackling those "good issues" that you mention -- I am using this guy as an example of who/what I DO have a problem with.
CriminalQueer 7 months ago
Why would any hetero male give a flying pig what some fat disgusting nigra bitch with a user name of "Criminal Queer" thinks about MENS REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.
What a loser!
6evorev6 7 months ago
@6evorev6 Monsieur, your wife carries my bastard tadpoles!
WhiteRose057 5 months ago
@WhiteRose057
O your so clever, I'm not married, too busy knocking up your wifey
6evorev6 5 months ago
@6evorev6 I have many wives and mistresses who have born my bastard tadpoles. Of course this includes your wife and daughters. Feel free to rape and beat any women you want. I do.
WhiteRose057 5 months ago
@WhiteRose057 You have been blocked for this comment. I don't care if it was said light-heartedly, I will not have it on my video comments.
CriminalQueer 5 months ago
@smartass933 I think I'm going to have to block you until it becomes apparent that you can in fact write coherently.
CriminalQueer 7 months ago
@CriminalQueer also, i could bring up, as you have in the video, tons of sexist women who rail about men in horrible ways. however, that doesn't constitute feminism as being sexist. also, your idea that men have no reason to complain is sexist and narrow minded. not trying to offend, but what's the harm of men having their own group for their own issues as females do?
glitchesandglitter 7 months ago
@glitchesandglitter "Sexist women" is not the same as "feminism". However, this particular guy self-identified as an MRA. Please see my other reply to you on why I talked about him.
Also, when did I say "men have no reason to complain"?
CriminalQueer 7 months ago
@smartass933 I really don't understand most of what you just said.
CriminalQueer 7 months ago
Women need to go change their "emotional diapers" and learn to grow up. We don't wanna hear a bunch of bullshit about abuse when they are 70% of the cause of domestic violence cases and mostly the people killing their children. They are babies that refuse to use logic unless their lawyer explains to them how to sue the living shit out of their husbands, then they listen.
SacredSocietyAP 7 months ago
Read the book "Mothers on Trial," which was recently updated. The"Father's rights" movement is mostly based on myths. In 70 percent of cases when the father asks for custody, he gets it. And custody is often given to abusive men because they are manipulative and men have more money to pay for lawyers. Women who are trying to protect their children from abusers are seen by the courts as hysterical and uncooperative. "Fathers' rights" is just another attempt for men to hang on their dominance.
TribeJudah01Boadie 8 months ago
@TribeJudah01Boadie This is completely backwards. 70% of all domestic violence cases are caused by women. Look up the stats from the CDC. Women are out to rob men with the help of greedy lawyers. Women abuse their children far more times then men and your comment is complete bullshit.
SacredSocietyAP 7 months ago
"Men's rights" activists are just trying to hold on to male privilege. They are total tossers.
TribeJudah01Boadie 8 months ago
@TribeJudah01Boadie Oh really male privledge? What a sick joke & if you haven't looked around men are far from privledged in todays society,the MRM is nonviolent response to having our brothers & sons being thrown under a bus. And Criminal Queer's knowledge of history is very misguided & sense when did putting women above men cause equality? And it seems that from the video & comments it would seem that you have a hateful view of men which we call MISANDRY!
crypter27 7 months ago
@crypter27 The irrational fear & hatred of men & boys & who ever said we wanted the right to smack women around? We MRA's are a nonviolent movement,all we want in that catigory is the right of due proccess which in recent times is the to be presumed innocent until proven & the right to a fair trial by jury which is written in both the constitution. And the Magnicarta & if you read vawa along with its British counter part,you'll find that vawa.
crypter27 7 months ago
@crypter27 Its at odds with the bill of rights,because it has a primary agressor clause which states the man is always the primary agressor even if he calls the police because she's hitting him & this has happened allot,along. With the primary agressor statute a man can be held with out trial,but you think its empowering to hit men right? As for single motherhood,I'd let you in on some statistics from the CDC children of single mothers are 8 times more likely to be abused or killed!
crypter27 7 months ago
@crypter27 By their mothers & children of single mothers are 5 times more likely to be repeat offenders various kinds of crimes,5 times more likely to get in to drugs along with prostitution! And maybe we should just pat you single mothers on the back for a job well done?
crypter27 7 months ago
It seems that anytime a woman is held to the same level of accountability as men... it is characterized as misogynistic.
2. Equality... means across the board. By the current definition, you assume that the majority of women share your views and values... Many do not. When the female acts irresponsibly or ILLEGALLY, men have no recourse under the law. Research how many men are paying child support on kids that aren't theirs even after a DNA test proves they are NOT the father.
AnarkistKryst 8 months ago
Anyway. Thumbed down just because of your response to RawTruthful. I was about to exit the page two minutes in, and didn't do it just to leave you this comment. I usually watch MIT lectures on YT so don´t you tell me i have a short attention span, and the fact that you make that assertion to RawTruthful, as someone you don't really know is reason enough to disregard whatever you say, in my opinion.
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas I'm not going to apologise for that. It's my video and I will say whatever I like, whenever I like; and in the end, it's my problem. RawTruthful was rude to me, and didn't have the endurance to wait two minutes as he himself states in his comment. Besides, he could always have just skipped ahead in the video. As could you.
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
You started your video very badly. Not only did you take ages to get to the point, your first point was a piece of shit. If you disregard men's rights because of some sexists that align themselves with the movement than i can disregard feminism as a whole because of its most radical supporters. You other points are nothing new.
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas Wow, way to mishear what I said. When did I ever say I "disregard men's rights"?! I said that most of the MRA's I've encountered have been sexist, and then went on to say that I had no problem with "people wanting to right a wrong" (i.e. when men's rights have been threatened) unless that wrong does not exist (i.e. women taking over the world, which is essentially what I've been told by some people).
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
@CriminalQueer I don't really see the point in putting a "men's rights discussion" video, and starting by pointing out the black sheep in the movement. There is no reason to even mention that if it wasn't your intention to remove credit from the movement by doing so.
It's like having a discussion on what is the best hat to wear, and starting by saying "Johnny and Joe next door wear this type of hat and they're both douchebags, so this hat type is only an expression of their douchebaggery".
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas I called it "Men's Rights Discussion" because that was what the conversation between me and the guy was about! Good Lord man.
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
@CriminalQueer Women just have different rights when it comes to bearing the child. The woman should have all the say when it comes to abortion. His arguments were shitty in that sense. Even though I disagree with anyone having to pay alimony. If the woman can choose to abort without te consensus of the father (whitch is only fair), the father should be able to ignore the existence of the child if he wishes to do so, and not fear legal reprecussions.
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas You see, this debate has a fair amount of finesse, that you didn't really go in to, so, i saw this as only an excuse to call this particular guy a sexist, and, adding this to that statement in the beggining, to dismiss merit from the whole movement.
Zebarbas 8 months ago
@Zebarbas I think you came into this with a perceived notion of what I think of things and what I want to do with my channel, and read whatever you wanted to into my video. You have done very little other than tell me what you think I was doing and present that opinion as fact, and back up some douche who couldn't be bothered to pay attention. I'm going to block you.
Also you annoyed the fuck out of me.
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
i believe that if i got my girlfriend pregnant i should have just as much say whether she would abort the baby, and that i should be able to take custody of the child if i believe she is an unfit mother...its crap that the mother is the default caretaker of the child right after birth and that if the man wants custody he has to go through a lengthy court process
nschrock273 8 months ago
@nschrock273 I think that you should have some say, but it is not your body (and potentially life) that is being risked. Though of course both partner's views should be considered, you should not be able to tell another person what to do with their own body. If she does have the baby, of course you should be able to have custody instead -- I didn't say you shouldn't.
And I agree: both parents should be default caretakers (unless there's a good reason for one of them not to be).
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
You mistake equality of opportunity with equality of outcome..
themaniusedtob 9 months ago 8
@themaniusedtob How so? Genuine question.
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
Comment removed
themaniusedtob 9 months ago
Oh my f***ing GOD! Why won't she get to the fucking point already?! I'm am already 2:21 into the video and she hasn't really gotten into the discussion yet. I won't torture myself waiting, I'm sorry. I was really hoping you had some valid points to make.
RawTruthful 9 months ago
@RawTruthful Sorry not to live up to your two and a half minute attention span.
CriminalQueer 8 months ago
@CriminalQueer Look, I'm sorry, but you know I have a point. It took too damn long for your to get to the meat of the video. I'm pissed just thinking about how pissed I was back then. Anyway, PLEASE try to work on that part of yourself . We all have improvements to make, especially me.
RawTruthful 8 months ago
I think you are kinda biased, (not implying you are a bad person) I advice you to do some serious research on the subject, if you want I can pass you some links?
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit What makes you think I have not done "serious research"? I have had to read feminist critiques as part of my study at University, and I have also read books on gender roles and equality in my spare time.
Just because you do not agree with me does not mean I am any less well-researched than yourself. We simply have different conclusions.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer hi there, the reply was originally meant to bundleseyes, on her statement on misogyni, statics without facts ect. Somehow I mixed you to together. I even send you a pm by mistake.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer a side note :-) I love talking to people who have different opinions and logically, conclusions. Otherwise that would make a debate pointless.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
You. Absolutely. Rock. From the sounds of it, so does your boyfriend. Mine's pretty cool too, he's linked on my page. He gets called a mangina allll the time. It makes us both laugh.
This is my experience of men's rights activists. Completely misogynist, statistically without backing, etc. etc.
It's such a shame because I believe that some issues of the MRA movt. are important and should be discussed. Unfortunately the proponents are backwards and bigoted.
BoundlessEyes 9 months ago
@BoundlessEyes Aww, thank you! =) And it sounds like both of our boyfriends rock too!
And I agree -- there should be debates about the restrictive nature of masculinity in the same manner as there are about femininity. But often they're too bogged down in blaming women/feminists for everything.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer and sorry to say, but with good reason. It's not like a bunch of guys one sunday morning wakes up and blame feminism for everything. There are some serious issues outhere who are sistematically ignored and even denigrated. And feminism (who is a movement prevalent female, hence the word FEMINISM) not only ignores but many times actively try to stop the movement. And this is a shame.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit Actually, in my experience that is exactly what some guys do.
Tell me about these issues.
As for the movement of men's rights itself, I suspect feminists only try to stop it when the people involved propagate sexist myths -- which in my experience, they often do.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer 'Actually, in my experience that is exactly what some guys do.'
doesent that makes biased then? in my experience feminist's are unable to handle opposing view and having serious debate. But I dont generalice since my experience is limited to what I experience and my interpretation of my experiences. One person POV isd kinda limited: like yesterday a italian (im italian btw) stole my car; ergo all italian are car stealer....hope u understand me.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit No. I'm just stating that, unlike what you said, my experience has been that some people do wake up and blame feminism for everything -- just like some people blame immigration.
I didn't generalise; I just pointed out that my experiences beg to differ. Besides, if "one person POV is kinda limited", doesn't that mean anything you say is a generalistion too?
It's hard to talk about these things without generalising, or at least saying "most people" or "some people."
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer yes I get your point but that's also what im doing from a limited point of view. Trying to communicate with other people in the effort to expanding my (our) limited understanding. It's partially true about the difficoulties talking without generalicing , but it's not impossible. But that depends by the topik and the context. So it's more complicated than that. but there is always a difference between a statement trown in the middle of a debate and true belief. true belief -cont
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit cont- true belief generally imply a closure from opposing imputs (close minded) and it ends in 'ideological battles' of quasi religious devotion. Ideological battle usually gets locked in to tribalism where this is impossible, though. For fear that if you give up one inch, your "enemy" will just take a mile.
But here it is the importance of communication and debate. Usually people who refute debate are also people who has a religious stance as dogma. And I dont belive it's our case.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit I agree with you about the importance of communication and debate; I am VERY in favour of that.
However, I think that in our talks you're misinterpreting most of what I'm saying -- is there a language barrier here? I say this not to be offensive, but because you are replying to me in a way that suggests you haven't fully understood what I'm saying.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer I think you are right, I misunderstod your point. Plz excuse me.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer about the MRM again isnt that some personal bias? are u sure feminists only try to stop them because of myth? isnt that a bit mysandric? just think about that for a moment =)
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit No, it's not mysandric to try and stop men being sexist, just like it's not mysogny to stop women being sexist.
Also, I think you misunderstood me -- you say "because of myth". What I mean is that some MRAs endorse specific sexist myths, such as "all women are manipulative", which the MRA I was talking to thought was true - though he didn't say it as blatantly as that.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer yes and no, yes it's true that it's not sexist trying to stop people being such, but it become sexist when somebody 'assumes' they are [...] because 'they are MRA/feminist's.
I agree on the last point, some women are manipulative, but that doesent mean all women are manipulative. just as some men are violent but that doesent mean all men are [...].
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit That's the point I'm trying to make! They don't "assume", some MRAs actually DO do these things. Most feminists - and, for that matter, people in general - require evidence of these things.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying very well. I wasn't saying women were manipulative -- I was saying the MRA I was talking to thought that. And he seemed to think ALL women were. I, of course , disagree with him.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@BoundlessEyes Im puzzled by your claims, yes there are misogynist outhere, but misandryst are not rare in the feminist movement and blogs either. So carefull with generalizations.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit Can you point me to an MRA that isn't a sexist twat? I'd love to meet one. Only ever met genuine MRAs in real life, never on youtube.
BoundlessEyes 9 months ago
@BoundlessEyes hi, sorry I forgot to answer u on the commentaries, but yesterday i Pm u some links. YT sadly or fortuantely (spam) doesent allow link posting.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit I didn't get any pm from you. Would you mind resending them?
BoundlessEyes 9 months ago
@BoundlessEyes hahahaha :-D sorry my mistake, I send the links to Criminalqueer, not to you. DUH!
Anyway I have send you a pm right now :-)
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
Good video, very fair-minded.
I think there are some instances(especially regarding parental rights) where fathers may have been discriminated against based on their sex, and these warrant further investigation and perhaps systemic change.
But that doesn't detract from the overall goals of feminism, which are yet to be fully realised.
What I find most disturbing are the mysogenists who hijack many honest conversations with their inane, blatant bigotry. When wit fails, turn up the noise.
churchofstfu 10 months ago
@churchofstfu Thank you =)
I think I talk about my position on custody in the second video - basically, 50/50 unless there's good reason for it not to be.
And a second thank you for agreeing about feminism! XD You'd be amazed how many people think women now have it better than men.
As for misogynists...well, my other half's response to one was "So, what you're saying is....you're a complete dick." Which I wish I could say, but I like to give everyone a chance to argue. Still, made me laugh.
CriminalQueer 10 months ago
I think you're wholly niave on the discrimination against men. Men are often on the wrong end of sexual harassment claims and many times are innocent but this ends up costing them their careers or at least the anguish of job loss. Women tend to marry up and so in regards to alimony, its usually men turning into wage slaves to their ex-wives. In America, many times a women accuses men falsely of domestic abuse and are barred from seeing their children, without any evidence. A few examples.
Solitas777 10 months ago
@Solitas777 Could you give me some statistics or examples of these things?
RE sexual harassment - what is your solution to the problem of false claims?
RE alimony - would you ban it, then?
RE domestic abuse, do you not think that for the safety of the woman/children the man accused of domestic abuse should be removed and investigated? If you leave a domestic abuser there AFTER he is aware his wife has reported him to the police, horrible things would follow.
CriminalQueer 10 months ago
@CriminalQueer The statistics are out there. Men overwhelmingly are the ones ones paying alimony and getting accused. It's why many guys (the smart ones anyways) don't get married. As for false harassment claims, they should make laws criminalizing false claims as well as allow the acusee to counter sue for libel and slander. As for Alimony, ban it. No, I do not that think the man should be removed and investigated based on a claim with no evidence. Innocent until proven guilty.
Solitas777 10 months ago
@Solitas777 When it comes to alimony, I can believe that -- but I doubt that's based on discrimination. I think divorces are a personal matter, and one to be sorted out between the couple; the issue is not one of discrimination.
As for the marriage, I did a quick search, and in the UK both genders have been marrying less -- the women less than the men, in actual fact. I accept that the US may be a different matter though.
Aren't false claims illegal anyway, under the perjury law?
CriminalQueer 10 months ago
@CriminalQueer but divorces uintil now favores the female. She has everything to gain, while the man usually loses everything.
About marriages you state : and in the UK both genders have been marrying less -- the women less than the men, in actual fact. u say women are marrying less than men....So who are the men marrying?
About false claims yes they are under the perjury law, but the punishment are ridicolous and usually the offender go unpunished.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit I doubt it. Both partners potentially have everything to lose, depending on the reason for divorce and their lawyers. Have you any statistics for your assertion?
I don't understand the point of your question about who the men are marrying; but I think what might have happened is that UK men are marrying women outside the country. This is only speculation, though.
As for false claims, if that is true then I think it should be changed.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@Solitas777 And I'm fairly sure the defendant can always counter-sue.
And I agree, innocent until proven guilty -- but you have to consider the safety of the family. He shouldn't be punished until evidence is brought forward, but he should be removed from the house. As I said before, the longer a domestic abuser is in the home, the more likely it becomes that serious violence will occur. I would rather wrongly take a man out of the house for a short time than risk his family being harmed.
CriminalQueer 10 months ago
@CriminalQueer about the safety of the family, does it also count when the woman is the offender? because if not, then it's flawed already from the premice.
Kenshiroit 9 months ago
@Kenshiroit If you'd read some of the other comments, you'll see that I've already answered this question.
Yes, by the way.
CriminalQueer 9 months ago
@CriminalQueer Let me ask you this. If a man accuses his wife of a child abuse should she be removed from here only home (made homeless) and barred from seeing her kid based on an accusation? Doesn't seem very just to me.
Solitas777 10 months ago
@Solitas777 Yes, she should for the time being, for the safety of the man and of the child. And then the proper investigations should be carried out, and if the claim is false she should be restored to the home. Same goes if a woman accuses a man of domestic abuse.
CriminalQueer 10 months ago