It makes sense that groups that use both hand and verbal language would engage more psychologically too, because they engage more/different parts of the brain. Ironically, silly looking handsignals might even be more helpful/dangerous (depending on your POV), because they are more easily dimissed (as non-threatening). Think of all the most committed in-groups who incorporate non-verbal comminucation (religions, the military, a Village People concert, hehe). I wonder what studies have been done.
I can't imagine the Tea Party nuts coming up with something like this. I guess because what they do is alternatively listen slavishly to authority (like Glenn Beck) or scream at people (about imaginary things like Obama's illegitimacy and "getting back their country")
I would like people, logic, survival, beauty, and nature to have a voice instead of money and fat-fats.
IknowIknow thecynicissmart. Negativity is more real than positivity. I get it. So then, have you done your homework?
Wouldn't you rather not have your soap operas, protein shakes, pepsi, (fucking ETC) and instead have happiness that only comes from realizing you aren't the only person that really exists, regardless of the cunt-tree you live in? I would, because I'm not a fat-fat cynic.
Who are the 1% you hate so much.? Hip Hop performers, Musicians, Sports Associations and Sports Players, NCAA, NASCAR, Movie Producers, and Movie Actors, Comedians, Artists, Art Galleries, United Way, Hospice, Veterans Affairs, Hospitals, Banks, Politicians, Bill Gates, Microsoft, Apple, Etc.? I'm just curious, on who is on your list. If you hate one of those on this list, you must hate all.
@MrWhiteyAllin I haven't heard of the first lobbying group for Hip-hop performers, we could be seeing it though, in the future, after all, corporate abuse of democracy IS pretty Gangsta
i really want change but that shit makes them look retarded and like a cult when it showed them all wiggling there singers in the air it looks like they are worshiping a false idle or something i know they want change but they don't need to change our language
Okay. Do these retards realize that every time they say "point of procedure" they are calling the speaker a "c_nt" in sign language? Because I find that kind of hilarious.
@antiquefeminist Exactly. It's not. But this sort of thing that discredits liberals. And yes that makes me just as angry as when right wingers do it.
Many of my friends are all lefties, and it's stuff like this that prevents any of them supporting ows. How can you support something you can barely defend?
I'm offended to be lumped in with these people. In the end they're just not serious enough.
The lowest losers of society. Television and Government cultivated education has created generations lost forever. The parents of this generation are to blame as well...or lack thereof.
Whatever your opinion about Occupy, this phenomena is more interesting than people give it credit. We're seeing internationally applicable multitasking efficiency for real-time social communication disseminated en mass. The in-group coalition bonding element of any language solidifies tribalistic intuitions.
to translate @gatogreensleeves: whatever your opinion about occupy, this thing is more interesting than people give it credit. We are seeing people making hand gestures like in that village people video but cooler because it's for debates and stuff, and it's world-wide. it's really cool because we thought that secret handshakes and stuff were a thing of the 90's, but they're back!
@Mauricioantoniofranc I realize that you're taking the piss, of course, but I'm interested in the history of efficiency in mass communication as well as any biological changes that correspond to the psychological changes. On our way to being plugged into the Borg hehe...
@gatogreensleeves I'm just saying, even though I agree with you that it is interesting, there's that one quote by einstein about how things should be explained in the simplest way possible and that otherwise it proves we don't know enough about it.
@Mauricioantoniofranc Sure, Ockham's razor, the principle of parsimony- and I was trying to pack a lot into my original quote. I'm not commenting on Occupy's message, just that when large groups incorporate hand signals into their communication, whether it's the Village People (who made a shitload of $ doing it) or The Third Reich or ye Free Masons of olde, we use a *different part of the brain* that IMO, more fully entrenches the users psychologically (MORE cerebrally) AND
@gatogreensleeves cont. there's also the ability to circumvent verbal language. Mass communication efficiency proved helpful to protests in the Middle East (cell phones helped a lot in real time organizing). I don't care if it's a freakin' Abba concert or whatever, when looking at all those people from the videos finding ways to communicate and do something en mass faster and better than previous groups in history, it gets interesting, especially if it gets destructive.
@gatogreensleeves I don't know about you, but I find it way more interesting when put like that, oh, and I wasn't either, I was just calling you out in the over academicity of your comment, now I realize it may have been wrong, but when put into simple words it's much more enticing to debate and construct new knowledge
@Mauricioantoniofranc Hopefully I've done that now. I don't want to intentionally exclude anyone from any conversation if I don't have to... Sorry if I was too cryptic.
@DeathnoteBB Which big words are you having trouble with? There are online dictionaries for you... Sometimes simple words will do just fine, but some words have more ancillary parameters that ultimately convey a more rich and developed picture- they actually do imply more and they do it more efficiently. You just have to know the difference between the words. Consider each word you don't know an opportunity to learn a way to include more relevant information into what you want say.
@gatogreensleeves I'm not having trouble with any of it, it's just that most people skip over big words because they're either confusing or a load of bull made up to look pretty. I don't want to imply things in my words, I want to say exactly what I mean, specifically.
@DeathnoteBB okay, I've tried to make my interest less wordy and pedantic. See recent comment (which upon re-reading might be unclear in my Village People comment- I hope nobody incorrectly infers that I meant that to point to the homosexual community- I meant the followers of band itself and how every little kid has done the YMCA dance at their local Skateway- hehe).
@gatogreensleeves In other words, a string of meaningless slogans passing across electronic channels, to the enrichment of social media and communications corporations. Got it.
@thereinliestherib Meaningless? Demonstrably wrong. "Slogans"? Wrong. Must they pass through electronic media? No- they can, but don't have to. Are they *intended* to enrich social media and corporations? No. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Would you chastise a deaf person for using sign language because you disagree with their political views? Apparently, because there is no difference. I have no allegiance to these people, but I can't allow disingenuous comments to go unrebutted.
@gatogreensleeves HA! I love how anti-corporate all the hipsters are, just as you enrich them by wasting away your teens/twenties on facebook, with your smartphone, your gps, and your crappy hybrid cars. Its such a joke. These people siphon off your privacy one post at a time, yet you pretend to be revolutionaries. It's hilarious. You hate the corporations that sustain your right to be lazy and entitled members of an ignorant society.
@thereinliestherib Again, you're not addressing my post whatsoever. I don't care if you hate the movement one bit. My posts here were not about the views of Occupy and I even made that caveat more than once. I'm interested in the evolution and dissemination of mass communication techniques. Your comments regarding that were wrong and colored by your bias. All I ask is that if you're going to take the time to vent, be right about your complaint or it just hurts your credibility
@gatogreensleeves Well spoken, my friend. But mass communication has basically boiled down to this: thousands of years of evolutionary struggle, death, and suffering, billions of dollars of technological investment and the accumulation of thousands of years of modern human culture condensed into a smartphone through which you could basically acquire a phd in just a few years. And what is this god-like power of communication used for? Porn, videos, propaganda campaigns...
@thereinliestherib I don't disgree, though I question some of your value assessments. You'll never get rid of technology, so pragmatically, improvements like hybrids and information devices are not 'crappy' *in principle* (unless their origin entails unethical circumstances). Beware of tu quoque ad hominem. Do people waste their lives on entertainment? That's the best point you've made, but that goes for everyone and don't belie moderate goods just because some people do that.
@gatogreensleeves It's not some--99% is statistically equivalent to the whole, IMO. The technological improvements over the last few decades have been regressive in nature--they enable more bad behavior than good. Hybrids are actually an excellent example--environmentally and mechanically, they are garbage compared to conventional high mileage cars of the 80's. Now watch your leaders push for more such manufacturing requirements.
@gatogreensleeves Or take healthcare--have drastic improvements in healthcare technology improved the lifestyles of Americans? The exact opposite is true. Improvements in both technology and coverage directly coincide with the overall (and drastic) decline of American health. I could go on and on, but basically I'm just the cynic who politely calls bullshit on futurists' expectations. Any futurist is just a more fashionable pomo consumer.
@thereinliestherib Thanks to technology, the infant mortality rate has literally gone down 100%. Thanks to Norman Borlaug's engineered grains, at least an estimated 1 billion lives were saved. While there are dangers in all of these areas to watch out for and we must be realistic about expectations, there is a component of nuance that can't be painted over by such a wide brush as that. Back in the 80's, people were arguing older cars were better. Old is not better by default.
@gatogreensleeves Question is, which cars of each set?? Excellent points though. Subjective criteria are why value-based discourse is meaningless. Still, I believe there are counterbalancing forces which are much stronger than people like to admit, with every technological advance. The advancement of mass media has fomented the virtual (and legal) extinction of privacy, which inherently means that all other rights are open to relativist redefinition, aka, assassination.
@thereinliestherib I think you give the media too much credit. Meta-ethical evaluations of metaphysical rights go well beyond the power of the media (and have been around much longer and will always still be around). *Inter*-subjective discussions of value are relevant and not meaningless (e.g. under methodological moral realism). Counterbalancing forces are often counterfactuals beyond our epistemic limitations, so not much to say about that unless you have concrete examples.
@gatogreensleeves You're throwing around too much ten dollar words man--the point is simply that you're giving WAY to much credit to mass media as a disseminating device as opposed to its much more powerful and demonstrable role as a postmodern propaganda apparatus of corporations and ideologies. Occupy isn't the antithesis of that force--it is its highest expression, or merely a temporary imbalance in collective expectations.
@thereinliestherib I disagree. You're the one disseminating postmodern propoganda advocating relativism and subjectivism. Occupy has very little to do with your grievences and your trying to put a face on them incoherently and without focus. Sounds like you have a problem with people in general. That's fine, but I can't help you there son. Don't know what I said that was "$10." I can't break it down any more for you. This conversation is dead.
@thereinliestherib Last, the primitivist Luddite crap gets old real quick and offers no solutions that don't call for massive real life casualties (talking about calling out bullshit). Losing your privacy?!? Jump off the grid- no one is stopping you. Occupy is the highest expression of corporate evil? That's not worth responding to. What should they do? Embrace them? Embrace CU? If corporate personhood gets overturned because of this movement, you think the media wants that?ug
@gatogreensleeves Nice strawman--I'm no Luddite, pretty much the exact opposite. It's simply that those who champion technological advancement with no respect to its actual costs in terms of privacy and autonomy are themselves apparatuses of pomo corporate culture. OWS, for example, is a bunch of losers not unwilling to protest root problems; they're a bunch of whiners upset that things didn't "go as planned." Their entitlement is the expression of all they supposedly hate.
@thereinliestherib I wouldn't feel comfortable painting a whole movement w/ ad hominem like that. I don't mean to misrepresent: you're upset that corporations impose ideological branding in exchange for their com services and it's not worth the exchange, no? I think it is, as their influence is negligable. I agree OWS entitlement issues can only go as far as corporate abuse, but Ctz.Unt., tax loopholes, lobbyists, etc, are significant abuses- so those complaints are justified.
@thereinliestherib Privacy issues are an interesting conundrum when it comes to balancing safety and Big Brother intrusion. To *some* extent they are the price of admission as a citizen. Honestly, I haven't decided how far I want to go w/ it. There's good recent scientific evidence that when people are aware that they're being watched (e.g. via video), that they generate significantly more pro-social behavior, but I think more work needs to be done to delineate in-group nods.
@gatogreensleeves Among which sets of people is there such evidence? The scope of those studies applies to those already most likely to not think for themselves, ie, to be the pawns of some Milgram expt. But arguing privacy is arguing a foregone ideal--the approval of communication/coding standards is predicated upon whether or not they allow govt monitoring. Legal definitions simply forego privacy in the information sphere. In the US, Microsoft/google owns your email.
@thereinliestherib There are studies that show this across the board, whether it's security cameras, in voting booths, or theists thinking god is watching. Do you actually think absolute privacy is the ideal? Don't know/care who is who or where or what they've done? No media beyond identifying anonymous persons? You need to make a difference between arguing for reform and abolishing the system.
@gatogreensleeves I never said "absolute" privacy--simply privacy. If you actually look at the codification of emerging statutes, the entire concept of privacy is being/already has been abolished. The email example is the best one, as are slander laws, when compared with Europe, where you own your email, etc. The pomo's all support the collectivization identity, but they ignore the underlying capital-based reasons for it.
@thereinliestherib Good, then work back from absolute and find the acceptable tolerence level for a socialized privacy standard. I'm saying that will lie within a reformable area. As for collective studies, all studies are based upon behavioral probabilities; few, if any, are deterministic in the strong sense. It's not that everyone will act the same, it's about propensities. More work needs to be done, but often these are based on physiological predispositions.
@gatogreensleeves Exactly--and thus, collectivist studies do not support individual predictions. That's the fact that has always been quietly swept under the rug by collectivist-Marxist thinking. It's ultimately more descriptive than useful, and subsequently fails to account for the condition of personal choice by recursively calling upon itself to explain its own inconsistency. For materialists, personhood/privacy is only an aberration.
@thereinliestherib That depends upon whether you are a realist, conceptualist, or a nominalist (or a hybrid). You don't need to be a supernaturalist to view personhood/privacy as a meaningful property of nature. That's too reductive. We don't need to inflate like a PM to find the balance either. Again, you offer, very stark polemical propositions in areas that require more nuance. Again, start from the other end (e.g. where you agree with social programs) and work backwards.
@gatogreensleeves Getting back to "real stuff", look into healthcare more. The reason other western nations do better than us is because they have stronger social capital, and stronger support for positive individual choices. The primary reason for systemic HC costs in the US is exploding pool risk. Do you hear a single news report tallying it up as such? NOPE. It advances every point I've been making about living in pomo america, where "socialism" is tacitly capitalist.
@thereinliestherib And who's going to fix healthcare? Republicans? HA! They sure did a great job of that when they had the House the Senate and the Presidency. There's plenty to complain about, but I look to the countries that work. Thanks for the conversation rib, but I'm done now. Peace.
@gatogreensleeves That would be my point--half the country believes in one myth, the other half believes in a counter-myth; neither see the root cause for US healthcare costs: exploding pool risk. All insurance pool costs are proportional to pool risk, so its simply amazing how successfully the national conversation has been steered away from such a plain fact, and to the benefit of the industry itself. If healthcare is a right, isn't respecting one's health a responsibility?
@thereinliestherib All hyper-individuaists want is socially codified permission to avoid the suffering of others and to exploit cheap labor, both under the guise of "freedom of the individual." The most charitable thing we can say is that they expect individuals to be more responsible than they can ever actually be, based upon our cognitive ceiling upon abstract reasoning and empathy. We do not thrive in the wild west model- nor does communism work. There is a middle way.
@thereinliestherib Linking PM w/ collectivization is a non-sequitur. I'm not a PM. When I read Nietzsche, I read him as a Modernist (ala B. Leiter or K. Gemes). I think that there's objective consistency in the world (e.g. technology) shows not everyone with their own narrative can make veridical propositions. It doesn't mean we don't have relative positions that aren't factual though (e.g. the distance from me to the moon changes subjectively, but is still factual).
@gatogreensleeves And the fact that you cite a collective study is really just an iteration of what I'm talking about--collective studies do not impute individual motivations, nor predict individual results for any given person. That others forego their privacy hardly obliges me to do so as well, it really just speaks to the modern lack of self-esteem/efficacy, which is what I'm getting at here...
@thereinliestherib Last, hybrids of open market/social programs that lean *more* toward social programs than we have in the US consistently rate as the happiest, healthiest, most educated, best quality of life nations. One just came out last week of the top 10 most educated countries and the only one w/out fairly robust socialized medicine was the US (@#4) Coincidence? The UN does a study every year too w/ similar results over decades now. Doesn't mean we must be communists.
@gatogreensleeves "hybrids of open market/social programs..." Only if you assume a false equivalence between the US and such countries. Western European HC systems rate far better, as liberals constantly claim in support of socialism--except that the reason their HC is better, cheaper, and more socialized is because they are FAR healthier countries. Across the board, the US lack s the social/personal capital to make such hasty generalizations.
@thereinliestherib You're making my case for me. These attributes are systemic, holistic, and co-emergent. You can't isolate individuals in a vacuum. I'll admit that the US is unique in certain ways, but when compared to other similar countries, we are the exception- the outlier, not the norm. Pro-social environments generate better health behavior- that's the point. It's habiltualizing the good systemically- psych 101. Hyper-individualism exacerbates these problems.
@gatogreensleeves Mere individualism is not "hyper-individualism"; and sorry, but individualism is the epistemic ground of our existence. I'm sure you would disagree, but we obviously just have different views. The problem I have with collectvism is its refusal to admit its dependence on individualism. Collectivist policy isn't paid by collectivist taxes, its paid for by taxes on individuals and individual institutions. Funny irony, that.
@thereinliestherib Ground of our existence? That's a non-sequitur. And the opposite is true, individuals think they are doing things by themselves, but they are using raods that everyone has paid for hiring workers that everyone has paid to educate, protected by police and miltary that everyone has paid for. You don't do it on your own. That's an egoistic delusion.
@gatogreensleeves "that everyone has paid for." Now just complete the sentence: "that everyone paid for... individually." All social and economic goods trace back to some origin, which menas somewhere along the line someONE has to work to create the resource capital that others depend on collectviely. Collective dependence does not impute collective creation; that's why socialism is a total lie.
@thereinliestherib That's a false dichotomy/red herring. Shifting perspective to focus in on the individual or focus out to see multiple individuals misses the point: no one individual achieves their goals without resources contributed by many (individuals). As Lao Tzu said, “the cart is worth more than the sum of its parts.” Socialism is a fact in our everyday experience- political or not, so is individualism. We need each other to do better than alone. Find the balance rib.
@gatogreensleeves No its not. Indeed, there is a balance, but that is practical. The epistemic ground of existence will always be individualistic in nature. That pomo's deny this is because they deny death, ultimately; and seemingly because they just don't want to live up to the existential reponsibility of mortality. It truly is--socialism is escapism, its fear-based. It's constructed to obscure those who have pay for it.
@thereinliestherib This is where science can help. What you belie is our social nature that is interactive with and co-emergent with our epistemology. Morality is contingent upon it- even just thinking- intention and action, are affected socially *pre-instantiation of action* How? Besides predispostions to ingroup identity (crucial to how we categorize ideas nueronally), more importantly, there are *mirror neurons* that affect empathy profoundly. You literally feel others rib.
@gatogreensleeves That's neat, but its only one component of experience; the world itself is another animal. On multiple philosophical levels we'd agree more than disagree, if we kept getting into it. My point was simply that collectivist policy has created more inequality than it has resolved. Truly progressive (and sustainable) policies would be those that balanced entitlement with personal responsibility; in the US, we have the former, but divorce the latter.
@thereinliestherib No it is not one component; it covers it all. Not like one part of wall painted blue, but a whole wall in a different shade- a filter. You can't delineate this from experience. I think you're separating too many things out in vacuum packages and belying holistic connections that have meaningful effects on social conditions. I agree ontology and epistemology are different. Taxes are the responsibility that the right wants to divorce.
@gatogreensleeves In other words perception is circular, and the real world does not exist. I don't want to divorce taxes--current taxes should be plenty enough. The reason our system is broken is because nobody wants to reform toward any actual degree of personal responsibility. And don't think for a second its about "social morality"--companies, unions, and state institution reap huge profits from the dependent class they perpetuate.
@gatogreensleeves And don't get me wrong--there's things you and I would both gladly pay for in order to provide certain basic securities (schools, military, healthcare). But the moral claims of these institutions have become nothing more than leverage for forcing people into consumer schemes. Socialism corrupts by enforcing the illusion that one's individual condition (touch burner = get burned) can be removed; it corrodes personal incentive and responsibility.
@thereinliestherib That's not what the science says. Read JD Trout's The Empathy Gap where he makes a great empirical case for social programs improving upward mobility when combined with open markets. You're arguing against communism not the "good European" hybrid I've been advocating all along. Be careful of that. Our biases want to attack the irrelevant strawman.
@gatogreensleeves Here we can agree. You know what else they have in Europe? Stronger social capital (more individual responsibility), taxes on the negative behaviors that drive up costs for healthcare, better health rates, etc. Their systems succeed because they incorporate a counterbalances to over-entitlement and the free-rider effect. Unions, corp's and lobbies block EVERY attempt to make our systems efficient by enforcing any degree of personal responsibility.
@thereinliestherib I do agree with you here with the former, but there is always the need for the latter at some point. Some times call for it more than others. We can end this conversation on some agreement.
@gatogreensleeves Go ahead and research the obesity/overweight rate in a place like the Netherlands before you draw false comparisons. The reason they can have socialized care, along with other social programs, is because their citizens take care of themselves in the first place, and thus their systems carry far lower risk. US HC pools are equivalent to pools full of drunk drivers, which by necessity means charging the responsible/low-risk more and more--thus, the MANDATE.
@thereinliestherib What these people (I'd think most people) reject is a govt. that increasingly operates like a corporation, w/ the dark side of social Darwinism systemically embedded at the core, like it is in unregulated Capitalism. This is a tenable grievance and there are real victims. Rejecting Occupy because of those inevitable few parasites who are trying to siphon off 'pork' agendas is an easy slam- a strawman itself really, but unfair overall. Focus on the genuine.
@gatogreensleeves In other words you believe that socialism has a metaphysical ground, contrary to the natural laws of market economics and scarcity. The fact that capitalism is central to our system is a necessary evil, and one whose benefits you're enjoying right now. Quite frankly, the rhetoric of "socialist" policy in this country advances practical capitalist ends more than anything else--Obamacare is a great example. A mandate to buy a monopolized product? Puhlease...
@thereinliestherib Socialism?! Who said I was a socialist? Next you'll be calling me a Maoist. Consider the middle and try to incorporate some nuance rib. The world is not black/white, but shades of grey. If you must know, I'm a social democrat. Sounds like you're a libertarian by the hyper-individualism. These days, "freedom" for conservatives/libs is just a euphemism for exploitation and hyper-individualism is a strategy to dodge responsibility. Society is not a vacuum rib.
Oh Fu*cking sh*it.. You retards crack me up.! I can't believe for one second that you Girl Scouts at your camp meeting, think you represent anybody in their right mind. I know for damn sure that you pathetic bi*tches don't represent me.! But please do me one favor, and please continue. This is better then "99%" of the comedians I've seen. It's like watching a retarded version of Sesame Street.
@wyt138 You're one of those people who hides in their momma's basement, aren't you? Call me a bitch away from occupy and you'll find that I'm not wearing my non-violence hat.
@humanills really.? you want physical violence.? find your way to Ohio, then contact me, and we will deal with your internet muscle. as far as "momma's" basement, she doesn't have one. but i have one, so maybe you should try something more original.
@MrWhiteyAllin Sure tough guy, you want to talk shit but don't like being called on it. I have no intention of traveling to your fucked up part of the country to hand you your fucked up retarded ass on a platter.
@humanills can you read back to yourself what you wrote, then explain what you called me on.? it's getting very difficult to deal with a knuckle dragging dolt. yes i'll wait while you look up "dolt".
@MrWhiteyAllin Hey dipshit, are you wyt138? The one who called us girlscouts from the comfort of your little home? Here's a fucking clue, you little bitch, WE'RE OUT HERE IN PUBLIC, go ahead and talk shit to our face. Over.
@humanills yes i am that same person that is nice and warm in my little home. it's because of hard work, paying bills, and not relying on people to take care of me. but in your anger, you didn't answer my question. maybe you were busy with your finger puppets, or not working for a living. maybe the shame has finally gotten too you. so throwing a tantrum like a little child is the only way you see out. and who is this 1% you hate so much.? i know, two questions are difficult.
@MrWhiteyAllin I answered your question retard. You were called out for being an internet tough guy who talks shit from behind a keyboard when the people YOU ARE TALKING SHIT ON are OUT IN PUBLIC AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO TALK SHIT TO IN PERSON.
@humanills - that means i would have to spend money to leave my state. here we don't put up with you whining little brats that don't want to work for a living. and no you didn't as usual get the message across. it was a bunch of angry nonsense, that seemed like you were begging for attention. look at me, i want what you have, and i don't want to work hard for it. and for the second question.? what will you grunt out for that answer.?
@humanills my answer please.? and i live 15 minutes from downtown Columbus, and i don't see a single envious little brat, whining like a free love hippy, that doesn't want to be responsible. maybe they are too ashamed to bee seen during work hours, crying like babies, because the next baby has a new toy. maybe they will wait until night time, and throw feces on the toy out of envy. maybe that is why your angry.. but answer the question you keep skipping over.
@humanills - wow, that is the best angry answer about "he's greedy, where's my share" i've heard bleated out like a sheep so far. so if it's political, it's bad. but let's say if it's Sports, it's okay.? again this is just twisted shame, that hippies tried in the 60's. get a mirror, take a long look, and then take responsibility for yourself. quit suckling the tit, and make something of yourself. we have it great in America compared, what more do you want.?
We all stop at red lights in intersections, green lights to go. Women use the bathroom with the picture of the lady on the door, men use the one with the guy on the door. We all shake our heads for no, and nod for yes. We all smile to convey friendliness (well, most of us do). Does that make us all mindless lemming/morons? NO. Universal signals are invented all the time for clarity and to express feelings. This is absolutely no different.
@cajunwannabe people in cults never know they are in them until its too late. Im not the one supporting some moron waving his dainty never did any physical labor fingers while lisping his way through a thoroughly mindless explanation.
Handshakes are not enough?
hellofaname 2 weeks ago
Go to work
73jpmoney 1 month ago
fags...
Oleh2011 2 months ago
sick
TheDutchDatabase 2 months ago
It makes sense that groups that use both hand and verbal language would engage more psychologically too, because they engage more/different parts of the brain. Ironically, silly looking handsignals might even be more helpful/dangerous (depending on your POV), because they are more easily dimissed (as non-threatening). Think of all the most committed in-groups who incorporate non-verbal comminucation (religions, the military, a Village People concert, hehe). I wonder what studies have been done.
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
"What is the appropriate gesture if the bag..."
You give it to the hater :)
spankrobot 2 months ago
I can't imagine the Tea Party nuts coming up with something like this. I guess because what they do is alternatively listen slavishly to authority (like Glenn Beck) or scream at people (about imaginary things like Obama's illegitimacy and "getting back their country")
skat1140 2 months ago
This is our future?
DaylesPoppy 2 months ago
Cool. This is some Lord of the Flies shit. I can't wait until they kill Piggy.
m015094 2 months ago
I would like people, logic, survival, beauty, and nature to have a voice instead of money and fat-fats.
IknowIknow thecynicissmart. Negativity is more real than positivity. I get it. So then, have you done your homework?
Wouldn't you rather not have your soap operas, protein shakes, pepsi, (fucking ETC) and instead have happiness that only comes from realizing you aren't the only person that really exists, regardless of the cunt-tree you live in? I would, because I'm not a fat-fat cynic.
ch1h1nam1a 2 months ago
Who are the 1% you hate so much.? Hip Hop performers, Musicians, Sports Associations and Sports Players, NCAA, NASCAR, Movie Producers, and Movie Actors, Comedians, Artists, Art Galleries, United Way, Hospice, Veterans Affairs, Hospitals, Banks, Politicians, Bill Gates, Microsoft, Apple, Etc.? I'm just curious, on who is on your list. If you hate one of those on this list, you must hate all.
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
@MrWhiteyAllin I haven't heard of the first lobbying group for Hip-hop performers, we could be seeing it though, in the future, after all, corporate abuse of democracy IS pretty Gangsta
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
So, you and your lefty friends are sitting at home criticizing, while OWS folks are DOING something, and you call them "not serious." Awesome.
antiquefeminist 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i've got a bag of shit. which one of you wants it over your head?
TheTylerGiese 2 months ago
i really want change but that shit makes them look retarded and like a cult when it showed them all wiggling there singers in the air it looks like they are worshiping a false idle or something i know they want change but they don't need to change our language
mikono14 3 months ago
@mikono14 It IS easier to organize stuff if everybody's quiet, don't you think?
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
cult
DeepHauz13 3 months ago
Okay. Do these retards realize that every time they say "point of procedure" they are calling the speaker a "c_nt" in sign language? Because I find that kind of hilarious.
QueenMean7 3 months ago
I'm fairly liberal and I want to punch these people.
leobaby 3 months ago
@leobaby Yes, violence is certainly a "fairly liberal" value.
antiquefeminist 2 months ago
@antiquefeminist Exactly. It's not. But this sort of thing that discredits liberals. And yes that makes me just as angry as when right wingers do it.
Many of my friends are all lefties, and it's stuff like this that prevents any of them supporting ows. How can you support something you can barely defend?
I'm offended to be lumped in with these people. In the end they're just not serious enough.
leobaby 2 months ago
The lowest losers of society. Television and Government cultivated education has created generations lost forever. The parents of this generation are to blame as well...or lack thereof.
utility59 3 months ago
I see the sock puppets are here, doing the work of their superiors.
spankrobot 3 months ago
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
faith4491 3 months ago
Pretentious assholes on parade!!!
AEPshawn 3 months ago
I wonder what the middle finger means to them.
ElloGunva 3 months ago
Whatever your opinion about Occupy, this phenomena is more interesting than people give it credit. We're seeing internationally applicable multitasking efficiency for real-time social communication disseminated en mass. The in-group coalition bonding element of any language solidifies tribalistic intuitions.
gatogreensleeves 3 months ago 10
@gatogreensleeves so in other words, a bunch of assholes with iPads.
DeepHauz13 3 months ago
to translate @gatogreensleeves: whatever your opinion about occupy, this thing is more interesting than people give it credit. We are seeing people making hand gestures like in that village people video but cooler because it's for debates and stuff, and it's world-wide. it's really cool because we thought that secret handshakes and stuff were a thing of the 90's, but they're back!
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
@Mauricioantoniofranc I realize that you're taking the piss, of course, but I'm interested in the history of efficiency in mass communication as well as any biological changes that correspond to the psychological changes. On our way to being plugged into the Borg hehe...
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
@gatogreensleeves I'm just saying, even though I agree with you that it is interesting, there's that one quote by einstein about how things should be explained in the simplest way possible and that otherwise it proves we don't know enough about it.
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
@Mauricioantoniofranc Sure, Ockham's razor, the principle of parsimony- and I was trying to pack a lot into my original quote. I'm not commenting on Occupy's message, just that when large groups incorporate hand signals into their communication, whether it's the Village People (who made a shitload of $ doing it) or The Third Reich or ye Free Masons of olde, we use a *different part of the brain* that IMO, more fully entrenches the users psychologically (MORE cerebrally) AND
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
@gatogreensleeves cont. there's also the ability to circumvent verbal language. Mass communication efficiency proved helpful to protests in the Middle East (cell phones helped a lot in real time organizing). I don't care if it's a freakin' Abba concert or whatever, when looking at all those people from the videos finding ways to communicate and do something en mass faster and better than previous groups in history, it gets interesting, especially if it gets destructive.
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
@gatogreensleeves I don't know about you, but I find it way more interesting when put like that, oh, and I wasn't either, I was just calling you out in the over academicity of your comment, now I realize it may have been wrong, but when put into simple words it's much more enticing to debate and construct new knowledge
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
@Mauricioantoniofranc Hopefully I've done that now. I don't want to intentionally exclude anyone from any conversation if I don't have to... Sorry if I was too cryptic.
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
@gatogreensleeves Don't you just love using big words to make thing sound more important than they are?
DeathnoteBB 2 months ago
@DeathnoteBB Which big words are you having trouble with? There are online dictionaries for you... Sometimes simple words will do just fine, but some words have more ancillary parameters that ultimately convey a more rich and developed picture- they actually do imply more and they do it more efficiently. You just have to know the difference between the words. Consider each word you don't know an opportunity to learn a way to include more relevant information into what you want say.
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
@gatogreensleeves I'm not having trouble with any of it, it's just that most people skip over big words because they're either confusing or a load of bull made up to look pretty. I don't want to imply things in my words, I want to say exactly what I mean, specifically.
DeathnoteBB 2 months ago
@DeathnoteBB okay, I've tried to make my interest less wordy and pedantic. See recent comment (which upon re-reading might be unclear in my Village People comment- I hope nobody incorrectly infers that I meant that to point to the homosexual community- I meant the followers of band itself and how every little kid has done the YMCA dance at their local Skateway- hehe).
gatogreensleeves 2 months ago
@gatogreensleeves In other words, a string of meaningless slogans passing across electronic channels, to the enrichment of social media and communications corporations. Got it.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Pretty much everything you said is demonstrably false and so shows your bias.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Meaningless? Demonstrably wrong. "Slogans"? Wrong. Must they pass through electronic media? No- they can, but don't have to. Are they *intended* to enrich social media and corporations? No. Wrong wrong wrong wrong. Would you chastise a deaf person for using sign language because you disagree with their political views? Apparently, because there is no difference. I have no allegiance to these people, but I can't allow disingenuous comments to go unrebutted.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves HA! I love how anti-corporate all the hipsters are, just as you enrich them by wasting away your teens/twenties on facebook, with your smartphone, your gps, and your crappy hybrid cars. Its such a joke. These people siphon off your privacy one post at a time, yet you pretend to be revolutionaries. It's hilarious. You hate the corporations that sustain your right to be lazy and entitled members of an ignorant society.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Again, you're not addressing my post whatsoever. I don't care if you hate the movement one bit. My posts here were not about the views of Occupy and I even made that caveat more than once. I'm interested in the evolution and dissemination of mass communication techniques. Your comments regarding that were wrong and colored by your bias. All I ask is that if you're going to take the time to vent, be right about your complaint or it just hurts your credibility
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Well spoken, my friend. But mass communication has basically boiled down to this: thousands of years of evolutionary struggle, death, and suffering, billions of dollars of technological investment and the accumulation of thousands of years of modern human culture condensed into a smartphone through which you could basically acquire a phd in just a few years. And what is this god-like power of communication used for? Porn, videos, propaganda campaigns...
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib I don't disgree, though I question some of your value assessments. You'll never get rid of technology, so pragmatically, improvements like hybrids and information devices are not 'crappy' *in principle* (unless their origin entails unethical circumstances). Beware of tu quoque ad hominem. Do people waste their lives on entertainment? That's the best point you've made, but that goes for everyone and don't belie moderate goods just because some people do that.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves It's not some--99% is statistically equivalent to the whole, IMO. The technological improvements over the last few decades have been regressive in nature--they enable more bad behavior than good. Hybrids are actually an excellent example--environmentally and mechanically, they are garbage compared to conventional high mileage cars of the 80's. Now watch your leaders push for more such manufacturing requirements.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Or take healthcare--have drastic improvements in healthcare technology improved the lifestyles of Americans? The exact opposite is true. Improvements in both technology and coverage directly coincide with the overall (and drastic) decline of American health. I could go on and on, but basically I'm just the cynic who politely calls bullshit on futurists' expectations. Any futurist is just a more fashionable pomo consumer.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Thanks to technology, the infant mortality rate has literally gone down 100%. Thanks to Norman Borlaug's engineered grains, at least an estimated 1 billion lives were saved. While there are dangers in all of these areas to watch out for and we must be realistic about expectations, there is a component of nuance that can't be painted over by such a wide brush as that. Back in the 80's, people were arguing older cars were better. Old is not better by default.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Question is, which cars of each set?? Excellent points though. Subjective criteria are why value-based discourse is meaningless. Still, I believe there are counterbalancing forces which are much stronger than people like to admit, with every technological advance. The advancement of mass media has fomented the virtual (and legal) extinction of privacy, which inherently means that all other rights are open to relativist redefinition, aka, assassination.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib I think you give the media too much credit. Meta-ethical evaluations of metaphysical rights go well beyond the power of the media (and have been around much longer and will always still be around). *Inter*-subjective discussions of value are relevant and not meaningless (e.g. under methodological moral realism). Counterbalancing forces are often counterfactuals beyond our epistemic limitations, so not much to say about that unless you have concrete examples.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves You're throwing around too much ten dollar words man--the point is simply that you're giving WAY to much credit to mass media as a disseminating device as opposed to its much more powerful and demonstrable role as a postmodern propaganda apparatus of corporations and ideologies. Occupy isn't the antithesis of that force--it is its highest expression, or merely a temporary imbalance in collective expectations.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib I disagree. You're the one disseminating postmodern propoganda advocating relativism and subjectivism. Occupy has very little to do with your grievences and your trying to put a face on them incoherently and without focus. Sounds like you have a problem with people in general. That's fine, but I can't help you there son. Don't know what I said that was "$10." I can't break it down any more for you. This conversation is dead.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Last, the primitivist Luddite crap gets old real quick and offers no solutions that don't call for massive real life casualties (talking about calling out bullshit). Losing your privacy?!? Jump off the grid- no one is stopping you. Occupy is the highest expression of corporate evil? That's not worth responding to. What should they do? Embrace them? Embrace CU? If corporate personhood gets overturned because of this movement, you think the media wants that?ug
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Nice strawman--I'm no Luddite, pretty much the exact opposite. It's simply that those who champion technological advancement with no respect to its actual costs in terms of privacy and autonomy are themselves apparatuses of pomo corporate culture. OWS, for example, is a bunch of losers not unwilling to protest root problems; they're a bunch of whiners upset that things didn't "go as planned." Their entitlement is the expression of all they supposedly hate.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib I wouldn't feel comfortable painting a whole movement w/ ad hominem like that. I don't mean to misrepresent: you're upset that corporations impose ideological branding in exchange for their com services and it's not worth the exchange, no? I think it is, as their influence is negligable. I agree OWS entitlement issues can only go as far as corporate abuse, but Ctz.Unt., tax loopholes, lobbyists, etc, are significant abuses- so those complaints are justified.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves You make excellent points by the way-- so sorry for being a dick contrarian.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Privacy issues are an interesting conundrum when it comes to balancing safety and Big Brother intrusion. To *some* extent they are the price of admission as a citizen. Honestly, I haven't decided how far I want to go w/ it. There's good recent scientific evidence that when people are aware that they're being watched (e.g. via video), that they generate significantly more pro-social behavior, but I think more work needs to be done to delineate in-group nods.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Among which sets of people is there such evidence? The scope of those studies applies to those already most likely to not think for themselves, ie, to be the pawns of some Milgram expt. But arguing privacy is arguing a foregone ideal--the approval of communication/coding standards is predicated upon whether or not they allow govt monitoring. Legal definitions simply forego privacy in the information sphere. In the US, Microsoft/google owns your email.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib There are studies that show this across the board, whether it's security cameras, in voting booths, or theists thinking god is watching. Do you actually think absolute privacy is the ideal? Don't know/care who is who or where or what they've done? No media beyond identifying anonymous persons? You need to make a difference between arguing for reform and abolishing the system.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves I never said "absolute" privacy--simply privacy. If you actually look at the codification of emerging statutes, the entire concept of privacy is being/already has been abolished. The email example is the best one, as are slander laws, when compared with Europe, where you own your email, etc. The pomo's all support the collectivization identity, but they ignore the underlying capital-based reasons for it.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Good, then work back from absolute and find the acceptable tolerence level for a socialized privacy standard. I'm saying that will lie within a reformable area. As for collective studies, all studies are based upon behavioral probabilities; few, if any, are deterministic in the strong sense. It's not that everyone will act the same, it's about propensities. More work needs to be done, but often these are based on physiological predispositions.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Exactly--and thus, collectivist studies do not support individual predictions. That's the fact that has always been quietly swept under the rug by collectivist-Marxist thinking. It's ultimately more descriptive than useful, and subsequently fails to account for the condition of personal choice by recursively calling upon itself to explain its own inconsistency. For materialists, personhood/privacy is only an aberration.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib That depends upon whether you are a realist, conceptualist, or a nominalist (or a hybrid). You don't need to be a supernaturalist to view personhood/privacy as a meaningful property of nature. That's too reductive. We don't need to inflate like a PM to find the balance either. Again, you offer, very stark polemical propositions in areas that require more nuance. Again, start from the other end (e.g. where you agree with social programs) and work backwards.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Getting back to "real stuff", look into healthcare more. The reason other western nations do better than us is because they have stronger social capital, and stronger support for positive individual choices. The primary reason for systemic HC costs in the US is exploding pool risk. Do you hear a single news report tallying it up as such? NOPE. It advances every point I've been making about living in pomo america, where "socialism" is tacitly capitalist.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib And who's going to fix healthcare? Republicans? HA! They sure did a great job of that when they had the House the Senate and the Presidency. There's plenty to complain about, but I look to the countries that work. Thanks for the conversation rib, but I'm done now. Peace.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves That would be my point--half the country believes in one myth, the other half believes in a counter-myth; neither see the root cause for US healthcare costs: exploding pool risk. All insurance pool costs are proportional to pool risk, so its simply amazing how successfully the national conversation has been steered away from such a plain fact, and to the benefit of the industry itself. If healthcare is a right, isn't respecting one's health a responsibility?
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib All hyper-individuaists want is socially codified permission to avoid the suffering of others and to exploit cheap labor, both under the guise of "freedom of the individual." The most charitable thing we can say is that they expect individuals to be more responsible than they can ever actually be, based upon our cognitive ceiling upon abstract reasoning and empathy. We do not thrive in the wild west model- nor does communism work. There is a middle way.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Linking PM w/ collectivization is a non-sequitur. I'm not a PM. When I read Nietzsche, I read him as a Modernist (ala B. Leiter or K. Gemes). I think that there's objective consistency in the world (e.g. technology) shows not everyone with their own narrative can make veridical propositions. It doesn't mean we don't have relative positions that aren't factual though (e.g. the distance from me to the moon changes subjectively, but is still factual).
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves And the fact that you cite a collective study is really just an iteration of what I'm talking about--collective studies do not impute individual motivations, nor predict individual results for any given person. That others forego their privacy hardly obliges me to do so as well, it really just speaks to the modern lack of self-esteem/efficacy, which is what I'm getting at here...
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves "You need to make a difference between arguing for reform and abolishing the system."
This is well spoken, though--point taken.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Last, hybrids of open market/social programs that lean *more* toward social programs than we have in the US consistently rate as the happiest, healthiest, most educated, best quality of life nations. One just came out last week of the top 10 most educated countries and the only one w/out fairly robust socialized medicine was the US (@#4) Coincidence? The UN does a study every year too w/ similar results over decades now. Doesn't mean we must be communists.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Sorry, that's "It doesn't mean we have relative positions that aren't factual though"
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves "hybrids of open market/social programs..." Only if you assume a false equivalence between the US and such countries. Western European HC systems rate far better, as liberals constantly claim in support of socialism--except that the reason their HC is better, cheaper, and more socialized is because they are FAR healthier countries. Across the board, the US lack s the social/personal capital to make such hasty generalizations.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib You're making my case for me. These attributes are systemic, holistic, and co-emergent. You can't isolate individuals in a vacuum. I'll admit that the US is unique in certain ways, but when compared to other similar countries, we are the exception- the outlier, not the norm. Pro-social environments generate better health behavior- that's the point. It's habiltualizing the good systemically- psych 101. Hyper-individualism exacerbates these problems.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Mere individualism is not "hyper-individualism"; and sorry, but individualism is the epistemic ground of our existence. I'm sure you would disagree, but we obviously just have different views. The problem I have with collectvism is its refusal to admit its dependence on individualism. Collectivist policy isn't paid by collectivist taxes, its paid for by taxes on individuals and individual institutions. Funny irony, that.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Ground of our existence? That's a non-sequitur. And the opposite is true, individuals think they are doing things by themselves, but they are using raods that everyone has paid for hiring workers that everyone has paid to educate, protected by police and miltary that everyone has paid for. You don't do it on your own. That's an egoistic delusion.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves "that everyone has paid for." Now just complete the sentence: "that everyone paid for... individually." All social and economic goods trace back to some origin, which menas somewhere along the line someONE has to work to create the resource capital that others depend on collectviely. Collective dependence does not impute collective creation; that's why socialism is a total lie.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib That's a false dichotomy/red herring. Shifting perspective to focus in on the individual or focus out to see multiple individuals misses the point: no one individual achieves their goals without resources contributed by many (individuals). As Lao Tzu said, “the cart is worth more than the sum of its parts.” Socialism is a fact in our everyday experience- political or not, so is individualism. We need each other to do better than alone. Find the balance rib.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves No its not. Indeed, there is a balance, but that is practical. The epistemic ground of existence will always be individualistic in nature. That pomo's deny this is because they deny death, ultimately; and seemingly because they just don't want to live up to the existential reponsibility of mortality. It truly is--socialism is escapism, its fear-based. It's constructed to obscure those who have pay for it.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib This is where science can help. What you belie is our social nature that is interactive with and co-emergent with our epistemology. Morality is contingent upon it- even just thinking- intention and action, are affected socially *pre-instantiation of action* How? Besides predispostions to ingroup identity (crucial to how we categorize ideas nueronally), more importantly, there are *mirror neurons* that affect empathy profoundly. You literally feel others rib.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves That's neat, but its only one component of experience; the world itself is another animal. On multiple philosophical levels we'd agree more than disagree, if we kept getting into it. My point was simply that collectivist policy has created more inequality than it has resolved. Truly progressive (and sustainable) policies would be those that balanced entitlement with personal responsibility; in the US, we have the former, but divorce the latter.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib No it is not one component; it covers it all. Not like one part of wall painted blue, but a whole wall in a different shade- a filter. You can't delineate this from experience. I think you're separating too many things out in vacuum packages and belying holistic connections that have meaningful effects on social conditions. I agree ontology and epistemology are different. Taxes are the responsibility that the right wants to divorce.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves In other words perception is circular, and the real world does not exist. I don't want to divorce taxes--current taxes should be plenty enough. The reason our system is broken is because nobody wants to reform toward any actual degree of personal responsibility. And don't think for a second its about "social morality"--companies, unions, and state institution reap huge profits from the dependent class they perpetuate.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Haha- yes, I agree, they reap profits *as individuals*.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves And don't get me wrong--there's things you and I would both gladly pay for in order to provide certain basic securities (schools, military, healthcare). But the moral claims of these institutions have become nothing more than leverage for forcing people into consumer schemes. Socialism corrupts by enforcing the illusion that one's individual condition (touch burner = get burned) can be removed; it corrodes personal incentive and responsibility.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib That's not what the science says. Read JD Trout's The Empathy Gap where he makes a great empirical case for social programs improving upward mobility when combined with open markets. You're arguing against communism not the "good European" hybrid I've been advocating all along. Be careful of that. Our biases want to attack the irrelevant strawman.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Here we can agree. You know what else they have in Europe? Stronger social capital (more individual responsibility), taxes on the negative behaviors that drive up costs for healthcare, better health rates, etc. Their systems succeed because they incorporate a counterbalances to over-entitlement and the free-rider effect. Unions, corp's and lobbies block EVERY attempt to make our systems efficient by enforcing any degree of personal responsibility.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib I do agree with you here with the former, but there is always the need for the latter at some point. Some times call for it more than others. We can end this conversation on some agreement.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves Thanks for your time. All the best.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Thanks for your thoughtful comments. Now it's time to focus on my homework. Peace.
gatogreensleeves 1 week ago
@gatogreensleeves Go ahead and research the obesity/overweight rate in a place like the Netherlands before you draw false comparisons. The reason they can have socialized care, along with other social programs, is because their citizens take care of themselves in the first place, and thus their systems carry far lower risk. US HC pools are equivalent to pools full of drunk drivers, which by necessity means charging the responsible/low-risk more and more--thus, the MANDATE.
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib What these people (I'd think most people) reject is a govt. that increasingly operates like a corporation, w/ the dark side of social Darwinism systemically embedded at the core, like it is in unregulated Capitalism. This is a tenable grievance and there are real victims. Rejecting Occupy because of those inevitable few parasites who are trying to siphon off 'pork' agendas is an easy slam- a strawman itself really, but unfair overall. Focus on the genuine.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
@gatogreensleeves In other words you believe that socialism has a metaphysical ground, contrary to the natural laws of market economics and scarcity. The fact that capitalism is central to our system is a necessary evil, and one whose benefits you're enjoying right now. Quite frankly, the rhetoric of "socialist" policy in this country advances practical capitalist ends more than anything else--Obamacare is a great example. A mandate to buy a monopolized product? Puhlease...
thereinliestherib 2 weeks ago
@thereinliestherib Socialism?! Who said I was a socialist? Next you'll be calling me a Maoist. Consider the middle and try to incorporate some nuance rib. The world is not black/white, but shades of grey. If you must know, I'm a social democrat. Sounds like you're a libertarian by the hyper-individualism. These days, "freedom" for conservatives/libs is just a euphemism for exploitation and hyper-individualism is a strategy to dodge responsibility. Society is not a vacuum rib.
gatogreensleeves 2 weeks ago
fucking nutsacks. all of you.
TheTylerGiese 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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kopellhinex 3 months ago
@kopellhinex Y U SO Aggressive, burning people is bad... especially for your sinuses
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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kopellhinex 2 months ago
Happy Hands rejects
lmacorp 3 months ago
Oh Fu*cking sh*it.. You retards crack me up.! I can't believe for one second that you Girl Scouts at your camp meeting, think you represent anybody in their right mind. I know for damn sure that you pathetic bi*tches don't represent me.! But please do me one favor, and please continue. This is better then "99%" of the comedians I've seen. It's like watching a retarded version of Sesame Street.
wyt138 3 months ago
@wyt138 You're one of those people who hides in their momma's basement, aren't you? Call me a bitch away from occupy and you'll find that I'm not wearing my non-violence hat.
humanills 2 months ago
@humanills really.? you want physical violence.? find your way to Ohio, then contact me, and we will deal with your internet muscle. as far as "momma's" basement, she doesn't have one. but i have one, so maybe you should try something more original.
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
@MrWhiteyAllin Sure tough guy, you want to talk shit but don't like being called on it. I have no intention of traveling to your fucked up part of the country to hand you your fucked up retarded ass on a platter.
humanills 2 months ago
@humanills can you read back to yourself what you wrote, then explain what you called me on.? it's getting very difficult to deal with a knuckle dragging dolt. yes i'll wait while you look up "dolt".
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
@MrWhiteyAllin Hey dipshit, are you wyt138? The one who called us girlscouts from the comfort of your little home? Here's a fucking clue, you little bitch, WE'RE OUT HERE IN PUBLIC, go ahead and talk shit to our face. Over.
humanills 2 months ago
@humanills yes i am that same person that is nice and warm in my little home. it's because of hard work, paying bills, and not relying on people to take care of me. but in your anger, you didn't answer my question. maybe you were busy with your finger puppets, or not working for a living. maybe the shame has finally gotten too you. so throwing a tantrum like a little child is the only way you see out. and who is this 1% you hate so much.? i know, two questions are difficult.
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
@MrWhiteyAllin I answered your question retard. You were called out for being an internet tough guy who talks shit from behind a keyboard when the people YOU ARE TALKING SHIT ON are OUT IN PUBLIC AVAILABLE FOR YOU TO TALK SHIT TO IN PERSON.
You're a moron as well as a coward.
humanills 2 months ago
@humanills - that means i would have to spend money to leave my state. here we don't put up with you whining little brats that don't want to work for a living. and no you didn't as usual get the message across. it was a bunch of angry nonsense, that seemed like you were begging for attention. look at me, i want what you have, and i don't want to work hard for it. and for the second question.? what will you grunt out for that answer.?
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
@MrWhiteyAllin There's an Occupation in Dayton, Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Toledo, Akron, Canton... so yeah, you're still a moron.
humanills 2 months ago
@humanills my answer please.? and i live 15 minutes from downtown Columbus, and i don't see a single envious little brat, whining like a free love hippy, that doesn't want to be responsible. maybe they are too ashamed to bee seen during work hours, crying like babies, because the next baby has a new toy. maybe they will wait until night time, and throw feces on the toy out of envy. maybe that is why your angry.. but answer the question you keep skipping over.
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
@MrWhiteyAllin What the fuck are you talking about? Occupy is about getting Corporate Personhood overturned, god you're a dipshit.
Money out of politics, retard. Representative republic, moron. Non-Corporate Candidates numbnuts. Drop fucking dead.
humanills 2 months ago 2
@humanills - wow, that is the best angry answer about "he's greedy, where's my share" i've heard bleated out like a sheep so far. so if it's political, it's bad. but let's say if it's Sports, it's okay.? again this is just twisted shame, that hippies tried in the 60's. get a mirror, take a long look, and then take responsibility for yourself. quit suckling the tit, and make something of yourself. we have it great in America compared, what more do you want.?
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
It's called down twinkles
chrisscomal 3 months ago
@chrisscomal - i was excited until i re-read it. now i want Twinkies.!!!
MrWhiteyAllin 2 months ago
What is the appropriate gesture if the bag where you been storing your own feces has reached its capacity?
jeffreyropp 3 months ago 6
@jeffreyropp hurl it at the hippy with the microphone.
skylance316 3 months ago
What is the right hand gesture if you need more weed?
oskikevin 3 months ago
The hand signals have a similar goal to Parliamentary Procedure.
They are better in that they provide immediate feedback that is quiet.
Sure, you look like a Sim with a triangle above your head, but that's a small price to pay for direct democracy.
olrailbird 4 months ago
Clowns without makeup
basicwil 4 months ago
We all stop at red lights in intersections, green lights to go. Women use the bathroom with the picture of the lady on the door, men use the one with the guy on the door. We all shake our heads for no, and nod for yes. We all smile to convey friendliness (well, most of us do). Does that make us all mindless lemming/morons? NO. Universal signals are invented all the time for clarity and to express feelings. This is absolutely no different.
bigandlittle 4 months ago
@bigandlittle actually in mongolia the yes/no gestures work the other way around
Mauricioantoniofranc 2 months ago
@Mauricioantoniofranc interesting to note! thanks!
bigandlittle 2 months ago
grow up X
plove53 4 months ago
Summer Wheatley wannabe
lmacorp 4 months ago
why do all of the guys in this group talk like homos?
lmacorp 4 months ago
@lmacorp What kind of bigoted moron are you?? This is useful information, thanks, Mark.
cajunwannabe 4 months ago
@cajunwannabe useful information for cultists
lmacorp 4 months ago
@lmacorp You don't know the meaning of the word "cult."
cajunwannabe 4 months ago
@cajunwannabe people in cults never know they are in them until its too late. Im not the one supporting some moron waving his dainty never did any physical labor fingers while lisping his way through a thoroughly mindless explanation.
lmacorp 4 months ago
@lmacorp
HA!
blupheonix44 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Gross National Happiness ... check it out on Wikipedia. :)
ghouston 4 months ago 2
I think we should make Congress use these signals. LOL
dovie2blue 4 months ago
The signal for declaring that you are a tool is to show up at an Occupy Wall Street event
jlame1984 4 months ago 2
This dude's practicing sorcery via aleister crowley and doesn't even know it. what a sap!
jmorris724 4 months ago
thanks. when i attend, I'll remember to do an illuminati pyramid if someone talks out of turn or whatever.
jmorris724 4 months ago