You said that their is not cure for being gay, I say yes there is and that is the one who made you. God is his name and Jesus is the way. Where does it say that it was ok? I have never read anywhere in the Word of God that two men was the norm.or women. All I can say from here is in the end either before Jesus comes and we pass from theis life. Or I hope in your case before you pass. If God can make the universe, calm all the seas, make man from dirt why can't he change u into the man u are?
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - No one changes their sexual orientation, it just doesn't happen. Some people lie about it - because they can get social acceptance from bigots by claiming to change from Gay to straight - but you can usually find them in Gay bars or hiring "luggage handlers". Gays do not need to be "cured", Gay people are some of the most intelligent, productive and artistic people on the planet. Gay people are accepted and welcomed by many Christian Churches. Bigots like you need help.
@Atlavocat For one thing I think you are scared to change, that is the reason you will not except Christ into your hearts, becuz when you do, you know that u will have to live right. Even if the gays are excepted in other churches they would still have to preach the word of God in the right context, becuz if they don't their blood would be on their heads, and that preacher who doesn't preach the truth will go to hell, along with the gay community. My help comes from the LORD.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE I know that I for one am not scared to change. There was a point in my where I did want to change. However, I did more spiritual harm than good to myself because I didn't need to change. God affirms me as a gay man without reservations. You reference Romans 1, but I doubt you understand the cultural context in which Paul was writing. Your understanding of sexuality and orientation must be very narrow if you think it is THAT easy to change. Could you become gay if you wanted to?
@tenorcervantes If I wanted to yes. Because sin is the nature of human beings, when Paul was quoting this their was no question of what he was saying. May I ask if you are a biblical scholar? How do u think that I'm narrow minded if you don't serve God? Then Paul talks about ppl str8 men & women are not to engage in sex until their marryed. But most of you engage in sex at anytime I didn't say you, I said most gays. Anytime, anywhere, in priviate or openly in the company of others looking.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE You're still using terminology that didn't exist for these people. The concept of sexual orientation was inconceivable. Yes, men were married, but the institution of marriage was very different then than it is now.
I am seminary student at Harvard. I spend my entire time reading the Bible and wrestling with the historical and cultural contexts in which it was written. If you believe that I'm sinful because I'm gay, then so be it. I don't intend on changing your mind on that.
@tenorcervantes Reguardless of the terminology, is it the same in actions? No matter what the concept was sexual orientation or not is it the same meaning? When I spoke of Paul saying that marriage was honorable and the bed undefild I wasn't saying men this pertains to Male & Feamale, not men. They knew if they even tryed to get married back then they would have been stoned. It is not saying that u are sinful persay, but if u engage in the acts of this is where the sin comes in,when u act on it
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - I have before seen anyone who had so little to say write so much. I guess you don't realize that you are inventing everything you write? No respected Bible scholar would agree with anything you wrote here. What do you think you are accomplishing? You certainly aren't converting anyone to anything.
@Atlavocat THE LORD REBUKE YOU! If your mind is made up on this subject, then so be it. Like I said be4, God will not make you serve Him if you don't want. I'm not inventing nothing, that didn't come from the Word of God & u know it. If the Bible Scholars where Christians they would agree with everything I'm saying. But if you think that a sinner Bible Scholar would'nt agree you are right. Becuz they are engaging in the same thing your in. And I'm not trying to convert anyone just read this.
@Atlavocat The accomplishment is this, For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jeus our Lord. Like Jesus said to the Pharisees if ye were blind, u should nave no sin; but now you say, We see therefore your sin remains. And there is no more covering for your sins.Jesus said chose ye this day whom you will serve will it be God or this lifestyle. The choice is yours, do what you will u only have so much time left. The Spirit will not always strive with man.
@tenorcervantes Lets get this str8, no matter what u are, no matter how u live, if u still say that u are gay, & u asked Jesus in your heart, & you don't act on these feelings u would eventually say one day, I'm a (MAN) of God. U would automatically forget I'm gay. The only time u would mention this is to help other men & women get to the same point. But, if u haven't asked Jesus to come into your heart u would remain the same and your sins will stay with you. It is easy to chang if you want it
Thanks for the very perceptive and articulate vlogs. From my own experience, I have been unable to reconcile my queer identity and my (Protestant Christian) religion and so have left the church. But you give me hope that some day the majority of people of faith will truly embrace and practice the love they profess to believe in.
@trisshandy - Very true. There are more and more Christian denominations which openly accept and welcome LGBTQ people. Most Bible scholars now agree that the Bible is not anti-Gay in the least. It's going to take a while before all Christians accept homosexuality, but it will happen.
@Atlavocat Not in this life time, Jesus still said in the beginning, God said male and female. It still doesn't not say same gender. God never added the facts of same sex to anything in the Bible or out of it.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - Gay people are male and female, too. God describes the love David had for Jonathan, it exceeded that of women. There are more pro-Gay stories in the Bible than Bible verses bigots like you use to condemn Gay people.
@Atlavocat I already told you that David and Jonathan was not gay, becuaz if they where Saul would have had both of them killed. A man can love another man without being gay. Don't u know anything else besides being gay? If this is true God would have told us about it. Like I keep repeating myself, If God had them write about Lots daughters, he would have written about them being gay. Where would the lingeage of Jesus come from? God would have to repent to S/G and thats not going to happen.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - Saul tried to have David killed because both Saul and Jonathan had had sex with him. Saul says that his son, Jonathan, is just like his mother and calls him a whore. Jonathan warns David and they meet, kiss and have sex together (it's very clear in Hebrew). When Jonathan is eventually killed, David speaks of his love for him and that it surpassed the love of women. Everyone knows that they were homosexual lovers - which is why Michelangelo sculpted David naked.
@Atlavocat OH! MY GOD! where did you here that from? Saul is the father of Jonathan, so your saying that he committed incest also? Maybe Jonathan's mother was a whore, and Saul took him in, But the reason Saul was so angry with Jonathan was becuz, Jonathan gave his girdle to David, his sword, and cloak. Saul was angry becuz the throne of Saul was to go to Jon, and Jon was giving it to David. It was like Jon knew that he wasn't coming back from that war. David was a womeniser, not gay.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE David was queer. I won't say 'gay' necessarily since that language of sexual orientation didn't exist for them. But his behavior and relationship with Jonathan went outside the 'norms' of most male-to-male interactions during that time period.
@tenorcervantes Just becuz you want to read into it what you want to hear doesn't make it true. You say that the languge of sexual orientation didn't exist, how was that possible? Leviticus came be4 1 Samuel and this is where you got the story. This story is easy to interpert wrong. I maybe interperting it wrong, you maybe but God has not shown me that this was the case of David & Jon. At this time in history, Saul had witches killed if they where caught. Saul tryed to kill Jon 4 eating,
@MsBREATHOFLIFE Again, sexual orientation DID NOT exist. The word 'homosexual' doesn't exist in the ancient Hebrew language or the Greek language. The word wasn't coined until the 19th century, when it was used to describe a psychological disorder (later to be discounted as such).
Leviticus talks about sexual activity, which does not define sexual orientation. The sexual activity it speaks against deals with 'macho' ideologies and the way the Hebrew people understand the role of women.
@tenorcervantes He was going to have him killed for eating some honey, becuz Saul gave decree that theywhere going to fast that day. The men where hungry, Jon didn't know about that & ate. Saul was going to have him killed for disobeying the order. So, if Saul at this pictulator time, was killing witches, almost his son, why in the name of God would u think that they where gay? God does not dwell in unclean temples. The Word of God would have said, Saul was a gay man that I'm using for my glory.
@tenorcervantes How could you say that these men where gay? I know that the story does depict that. But it is not true. For one thing, David is a Hebrew as well as Saul, & Jon, The Hebrew ppl knew that this was taboo, for any Hebrew man or women to ingage in homosexaul activies. Even though I know that it could happen, or God wouldn't have said, do not lay with man as with women kind. I know that it existed, and they where stoned for it. God was letting them know the seriousness of this sin.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE I never said they were gay. I don't believe that they were gay at all. I believe that they engaged in a queer relationship. I also never said they had sex. Sexual orientation isn't defined by one's sexual activity. And the only reason it was taboo for men to engage in sex with other men was because it was unheard of for a man to be penetrated (that role was meant to only be fulfilled by women, because they were the perceived 'passive' ones).
@tenorcervantes Well, you know, ten we will know the hole story about our lives, when Jesus comes back. God will judge everything in due time. This is the reason God told us not to lean to our own understanding. Becuz it will get us into trouble, I know what God can do, there is no doubt in my heart that if He made heaven & earth the seas & stars sun & moon, He can surly change a man or women to live str8 lives if the want it. If not God will not make you, do something that u except to be true.
@tenorcervantes I was looking at the history of 1 Sam The monarchy. Reign of Saul in the beginning Saul did what God told him to do. This was war at the time. Then Saul diecited to do what he thought was right. God rejectd him. Then Saul knew that God was going to chose David for King. Saul was angry at Jon & David's friendship, be Jon gave David his girdle, sword, cloak, Saul called him some names, becuz Jon was supposed to be the next King, He gave it to David knowing that he wouldnt be back.
@tenorcervantes I read where Jon, had a wife and child, that he asked David at this time, and said if I don't return please take care of my family. This does not sound like a gay man. If he where gay, I don't think he would have been fighting in the war. His father would have known that he was a sissy. Therefore he would have had him killed. This was the law then & they where obeyed. David would not have run down to kill Goliath either. The way gay men act, & present themselves is two feminine.
@tenorcervantes Even in the history of 1 Sam & 11 Sam it doesn't mention that they where gay men. Then, it says that David marries Saul's daughter and between him and Jon a lasting friendship in formed, When Jon was killed, David wept for him becuz of the friendship, and enquires of the ppl if Jon had and relatives, they said a Son. David brought him to his house, and kept him becuz the man was a criple, but reqaurdless David kept his word to Jon.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - I bet you think that Rock Hudson had a "lasting friendship" with many men? No where does the Bible mention homosexuality because (as tenorcervantes said many times) the very concept of "homosexuality" did not exist until the late 19th century. Prior to the late 1880's everyone was assumed to be heterosexual, but engaged in homosexual acts and relationships "on occasion". Even Socrates, an openly Gay man, had a wife.
@Atlavocat And if these men didn't except Jesus into their hearts they are right now burning in hell for their sins.. Not, becuz of the Gayness, but becuz they refused Christ in their hearts. When a man or women or child excepts Christ theie sins are done away with, never to be remembered again. But if they didn't not they are paying the price of sin. The wages of sin is death. To be forever out of the presents of God. Just becuz these men where in this situtation, does not mean that it is right
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - You are an obviously sexually frustrated individual who takes pleasure in teaching others what you think the Bible and Jesus Christ stands for, but you are wrong. You drive good people away from Christianity, you drive everyone from Christianity. Are you a Mormon? Do you believe that Jesus was an alien? Most of what you write makes no sense whatsoever to any true Christian.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - I've never seen anywho else who knows so little and types so much. ROTLF! Ask any Bible scholar, both Saul and Jonathan were sexually attracted to David, when David chose Jonathan as his lover, Saul was furious - which is why Saul ordered David killed. Read the Book of Daniel and note how many times Saul and Jonathan "disrobed" David. Most Bible scholars think that the David who slew Goliath was the lover of Jonathan, but not the same King David who had many female lovers.
@Atlavocat This is a bunch of bull, But believe what you want. The David, that met Jon is the same Daivd, that kille Goliath, if he is the son of Jesse. Back then they didn't live long enough if they where caught. You are full of the devil, and the Blood of Jesus is against you.
@tenorcervantes Well, ten, it was a pleasure talking to you, and keep in mind, there is nothing to heard for God. His hand is not to short that he can't reach down and save nor is his ear heavy that he can't hear. He's just a prayer away. Oh! I don't own a cat.
@Atlavocat These gay stories point them out to me, becuz I've never seen one of them. Without a stoning. These are not right practises, for the human race. Their has not been a story of two men that lived in the Bible. Even though their where still ppl practising this evil act of lust. Paul said it should not be that is the reason he wrote about it, becuz they where still doing this in his day. The message wasnt just for them it was for all man kind which would include women. Open your eyes.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - There is only one attempted stoning in the Bible - and Jesus stopped that. Tell me where there are other stonings? I would like to see that. Do you have ANY respect for the truth? Do you lie about everything? I know you have no respect for Jesus Christ because you ignore everything he said.
@Atlavocat When Jesus asked the women, who was caught in adultery, those who are without sin cast the first stone. They all went away, putting down their stones, including the man who she had sex with. Jesus said where are thine accursers,she said theres none. Jesus said I don't accuse you either, (BUT GO & SIN NO MORE) He didn't say, keep doing what you been doing, I don't care. Saul, had Stephen stoned, for preaching the Gospel Acts. Saul had thousands of men & women stoned, & put in prison.
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - There is none so blind as he who will not see. My eyes and heart are open, I honestly believe that God loves all people no matter what their sexual orientation. I honestly believe that Jesus Christ is among all groups when they work to help the poor, the sick, the oppressed - even in Gay Pride marches, Jesus is there. Why do you hate so much?
@Atlavocat You can't get to heaven on good works, you must be born again. No matt wha your sexaul orientation is you must be born again. And when a person excepts Jeus in their hearts, the change will come. The only thing is, is that you and others will have to want to be changed. If God can throw Satan out of heaven and a 1/3 of his angles God can serntenly change a man made of dirt, when He is the one who made us anyway. You don't even claim to be a christian, and you want to keep your style
@Atlavocat I don't hate gays, I want u to know that God can and will change a man or women into what God has made you, and that is not homosexaul, it is wen you where born a litle boy or a little girl, to grow up and be responsable men and women. Like I said, if you don't want to serve God that is intirely up to you, he will not force himself on you, becuz He is a gentle God. Jesus is a gentle man. Can you see yourself in he mist of God or Jesus bending over with your partner saying this is God
@Atlavocat Why are you trying to make the Bible accept your unrighteous ways. Why include the Bible any way? You know what Romans says, about it, I wrote you on that in another site. You read it Romans 1:24-32. The Bible says, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. You are not seeking God, and his righteousness. You are looking for a loup hole so you won't have to change. There is no back door to Jesus Christ.
I thought this blog was great! I really liked your point that sexual orientation is not the same as sexual activity... because it's so true. Subscribed.
You're still bleeding from the same cut - just ure religion has given you some "Spiritual Morphine" and made you cry and blame others all for the love of your faith. Its really sickening to hear your account of what happened in that room - all to make you keep believing and scare you from knowing your real self.Ask me if you want some real help - it might be godless but at least it wont make you cry or wanna commit suicide. Peace dude - try not to stress out like this - early heart attack etc
It seems your religion has kinda of blinded you to the fact (especially if you actually even once blamed someone else for being gay) that what your going through is normal curiosity (even the str8est guys go through it - me included) but your prob was you were afraid of being judged - and not being religious I will say "the idea of god/diety's" is meant to curb free will. You are not allowed to be other than what they tell you. (continued next post due to character limit again! lol)
I would just like to comment - i've watched ure other video's on here - your ex-gay thingy ones I mean and this - I dunno how to tell you this but...and I say this without malice or sarcasm - I think the only way you will know if you are "gay" is to actually BE in a relationship with a man - and out of all my gay friends that i've asked -not one has had an a-sexsual or non-sexsual experience. (continued next post due to character limit lol)
Okay, first of all it looks like yet one MORE person somewhere back there needs to get those "clobber passages" of the NT, FIRST of all, from the original koine Greek, and SECONDLY, in the appropriate context! (historically, literarily, THEOLOGICALLY, etc.)You said this was your first English v-blog, and I did notice you re-hashing a COUPLE of points, but even good old Toastmasters International says it is okay (and even good usually!) to do that up to a point. :) Go C LATTER DAYS, everybody.
Please keep doing english blogs. Your a great speaker and you explain things really well. You make people really understand things. I was ignorant about the things that you just talked about and you made me see things another way. Thanx very much You could reach out to a lot of people.
i am a mormon and i am very nervous about coming out in church because i dont want to go though ex-gay therapy or be excommunicated. i know my parents will be understanding, but i dont know what will happen at church.
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continued again the Bible does not say homosexuality is a "greater" sin than any other sin. All sin is offensive to God. read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 According to the Bible,God's forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer,murderer,thief, etc. God promises the strength for victory over all sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).
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continued from last post
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible says people are homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires.if you are born with a greater susceptability for depression, is it ok to cut yourself?
The way i look at it Jengirl is this. Your a blind, idiot. Im gay, 14 year old, grew up in a church, and I have always believed gay was wrong, its bad, i've tried to be straight. I cant, its just not possible, why would a gay man choose to be gay? For attention? No. There is no reason except for attention that you can wave above us. Why would we choose to be harrassed, made fun of, depressed, afraid of parents and friends hating us. Honestly... For attention?
your a dumb bitch, if people could choose to be gay WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TO BE GAY?> do you choose to be straight? do you choose to like guys? No you just do its what your attrated to, and people like you are dumb bitches
well i personally don't believe in a "gay gene." but that is actually a misconception that all gay men sound and act the same. while i may fit the "stereotype" of having a high-pitched voice and a more "flamboyant" type of behavior, there are definitely many gay men that have deep voices and behave differently. there are even many straight men that have the same mannerisms i do too. so you really can't judge a book by its cover.
@tenorcervantes - I agree completely, but there is no doubt that there are "Gay genes" since sexual orientation is genetically linked, but not everyone who is Gay has a Gay gene (and some people who are straight have "Gay genes"). There are hormonal factors in the womb that do affect one's ultimate sexual orientation and I believe those account for various attributes which people consider "Gay" - but (as you said) not all Gay men are "femme" some are very butch - and many Lesbians are lipstick.
@Atlavocat These genes that you are talking about are they blue or black. These are nothing but demon spirits. that has tricked many ppl into a great lie. The factors in the womb was demon possesion. And there is help, if ppl want it.
You said that their is not cure for being gay, I say yes there is and that is the one who made you. God is his name and Jesus is the way. Where does it say that it was ok? I have never read anywhere in the Word of God that two men was the norm.or women. All I can say from here is in the end either before Jesus comes and we pass from theis life. Or I hope in your case before you pass. If God can make the universe, calm all the seas, make man from dirt why can't he change u into the man u are?
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - No one changes their sexual orientation, it just doesn't happen. Some people lie about it - because they can get social acceptance from bigots by claiming to change from Gay to straight - but you can usually find them in Gay bars or hiring "luggage handlers". Gays do not need to be "cured", Gay people are some of the most intelligent, productive and artistic people on the planet. Gay people are accepted and welcomed by many Christian Churches. Bigots like you need help.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat For one thing I think you are scared to change, that is the reason you will not except Christ into your hearts, becuz when you do, you know that u will have to live right. Even if the gays are excepted in other churches they would still have to preach the word of God in the right context, becuz if they don't their blood would be on their heads, and that preacher who doesn't preach the truth will go to hell, along with the gay community. My help comes from the LORD.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE I know that I for one am not scared to change. There was a point in my where I did want to change. However, I did more spiritual harm than good to myself because I didn't need to change. God affirms me as a gay man without reservations. You reference Romans 1, but I doubt you understand the cultural context in which Paul was writing. Your understanding of sexuality and orientation must be very narrow if you think it is THAT easy to change. Could you become gay if you wanted to?
tenorcervantes 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes If I wanted to yes. Because sin is the nature of human beings, when Paul was quoting this their was no question of what he was saying. May I ask if you are a biblical scholar? How do u think that I'm narrow minded if you don't serve God? Then Paul talks about ppl str8 men & women are not to engage in sex until their marryed. But most of you engage in sex at anytime I didn't say you, I said most gays. Anytime, anywhere, in priviate or openly in the company of others looking.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE You're still using terminology that didn't exist for these people. The concept of sexual orientation was inconceivable. Yes, men were married, but the institution of marriage was very different then than it is now.
I am seminary student at Harvard. I spend my entire time reading the Bible and wrestling with the historical and cultural contexts in which it was written. If you believe that I'm sinful because I'm gay, then so be it. I don't intend on changing your mind on that.
tenorcervantes 1 year ago 2
@tenorcervantes Reguardless of the terminology, is it the same in actions? No matter what the concept was sexual orientation or not is it the same meaning? When I spoke of Paul saying that marriage was honorable and the bed undefild I wasn't saying men this pertains to Male & Feamale, not men. They knew if they even tryed to get married back then they would have been stoned. It is not saying that u are sinful persay, but if u engage in the acts of this is where the sin comes in,when u act on it
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - I have before seen anyone who had so little to say write so much. I guess you don't realize that you are inventing everything you write? No respected Bible scholar would agree with anything you wrote here. What do you think you are accomplishing? You certainly aren't converting anyone to anything.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat THE LORD REBUKE YOU! If your mind is made up on this subject, then so be it. Like I said be4, God will not make you serve Him if you don't want. I'm not inventing nothing, that didn't come from the Word of God & u know it. If the Bible Scholars where Christians they would agree with everything I'm saying. But if you think that a sinner Bible Scholar would'nt agree you are right. Becuz they are engaging in the same thing your in. And I'm not trying to convert anyone just read this.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@Atlavocat The accomplishment is this, For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jeus our Lord. Like Jesus said to the Pharisees if ye were blind, u should nave no sin; but now you say, We see therefore your sin remains. And there is no more covering for your sins.Jesus said chose ye this day whom you will serve will it be God or this lifestyle. The choice is yours, do what you will u only have so much time left. The Spirit will not always strive with man.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes Lets get this str8, no matter what u are, no matter how u live, if u still say that u are gay, & u asked Jesus in your heart, & you don't act on these feelings u would eventually say one day, I'm a (MAN) of God. U would automatically forget I'm gay. The only time u would mention this is to help other men & women get to the same point. But, if u haven't asked Jesus to come into your heart u would remain the same and your sins will stay with you. It is easy to chang if you want it
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
Thanks for the very perceptive and articulate vlogs. From my own experience, I have been unable to reconcile my queer identity and my (Protestant Christian) religion and so have left the church. But you give me hope that some day the majority of people of faith will truly embrace and practice the love they profess to believe in.
trisshandy 1 year ago
@trisshandy - Very true. There are more and more Christian denominations which openly accept and welcome LGBTQ people. Most Bible scholars now agree that the Bible is not anti-Gay in the least. It's going to take a while before all Christians accept homosexuality, but it will happen.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat Not in this life time, Jesus still said in the beginning, God said male and female. It still doesn't not say same gender. God never added the facts of same sex to anything in the Bible or out of it.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - Gay people are male and female, too. God describes the love David had for Jonathan, it exceeded that of women. There are more pro-Gay stories in the Bible than Bible verses bigots like you use to condemn Gay people.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat I already told you that David and Jonathan was not gay, becuaz if they where Saul would have had both of them killed. A man can love another man without being gay. Don't u know anything else besides being gay? If this is true God would have told us about it. Like I keep repeating myself, If God had them write about Lots daughters, he would have written about them being gay. Where would the lingeage of Jesus come from? God would have to repent to S/G and thats not going to happen.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - Saul tried to have David killed because both Saul and Jonathan had had sex with him. Saul says that his son, Jonathan, is just like his mother and calls him a whore. Jonathan warns David and they meet, kiss and have sex together (it's very clear in Hebrew). When Jonathan is eventually killed, David speaks of his love for him and that it surpassed the love of women. Everyone knows that they were homosexual lovers - which is why Michelangelo sculpted David naked.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat OH! MY GOD! where did you here that from? Saul is the father of Jonathan, so your saying that he committed incest also? Maybe Jonathan's mother was a whore, and Saul took him in, But the reason Saul was so angry with Jonathan was becuz, Jonathan gave his girdle to David, his sword, and cloak. Saul was angry becuz the throne of Saul was to go to Jon, and Jon was giving it to David. It was like Jon knew that he wasn't coming back from that war. David was a womeniser, not gay.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE David was queer. I won't say 'gay' necessarily since that language of sexual orientation didn't exist for them. But his behavior and relationship with Jonathan went outside the 'norms' of most male-to-male interactions during that time period.
tenorcervantes 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes Just becuz you want to read into it what you want to hear doesn't make it true. You say that the languge of sexual orientation didn't exist, how was that possible? Leviticus came be4 1 Samuel and this is where you got the story. This story is easy to interpert wrong. I maybe interperting it wrong, you maybe but God has not shown me that this was the case of David & Jon. At this time in history, Saul had witches killed if they where caught. Saul tryed to kill Jon 4 eating,
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE Again, sexual orientation DID NOT exist. The word 'homosexual' doesn't exist in the ancient Hebrew language or the Greek language. The word wasn't coined until the 19th century, when it was used to describe a psychological disorder (later to be discounted as such).
Leviticus talks about sexual activity, which does not define sexual orientation. The sexual activity it speaks against deals with 'macho' ideologies and the way the Hebrew people understand the role of women.
tenorcervantes 1 year ago 4
@tenorcervantes
Well yes, homosexuality was described in some dictionaries like in Webster as an illness. So was heterosexuality too!
Heterosexuality was described as "a too strong attraction for the opposite sex".
Normalcy for Christians was actually the hate for sex of any kind except within the confins of the marriage.
48acar19 9 months ago
@tenorcervantes He was going to have him killed for eating some honey, becuz Saul gave decree that theywhere going to fast that day. The men where hungry, Jon didn't know about that & ate. Saul was going to have him killed for disobeying the order. So, if Saul at this pictulator time, was killing witches, almost his son, why in the name of God would u think that they where gay? God does not dwell in unclean temples. The Word of God would have said, Saul was a gay man that I'm using for my glory.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes How could you say that these men where gay? I know that the story does depict that. But it is not true. For one thing, David is a Hebrew as well as Saul, & Jon, The Hebrew ppl knew that this was taboo, for any Hebrew man or women to ingage in homosexaul activies. Even though I know that it could happen, or God wouldn't have said, do not lay with man as with women kind. I know that it existed, and they where stoned for it. God was letting them know the seriousness of this sin.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE I never said they were gay. I don't believe that they were gay at all. I believe that they engaged in a queer relationship. I also never said they had sex. Sexual orientation isn't defined by one's sexual activity. And the only reason it was taboo for men to engage in sex with other men was because it was unheard of for a man to be penetrated (that role was meant to only be fulfilled by women, because they were the perceived 'passive' ones).
tenorcervantes 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes Well, you know, ten we will know the hole story about our lives, when Jesus comes back. God will judge everything in due time. This is the reason God told us not to lean to our own understanding. Becuz it will get us into trouble, I know what God can do, there is no doubt in my heart that if He made heaven & earth the seas & stars sun & moon, He can surly change a man or women to live str8 lives if the want it. If not God will not make you, do something that u except to be true.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes I was looking at the history of 1 Sam The monarchy. Reign of Saul in the beginning Saul did what God told him to do. This was war at the time. Then Saul diecited to do what he thought was right. God rejectd him. Then Saul knew that God was going to chose David for King. Saul was angry at Jon & David's friendship, be Jon gave David his girdle, sword, cloak, Saul called him some names, becuz Jon was supposed to be the next King, He gave it to David knowing that he wouldnt be back.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes I read where Jon, had a wife and child, that he asked David at this time, and said if I don't return please take care of my family. This does not sound like a gay man. If he where gay, I don't think he would have been fighting in the war. His father would have known that he was a sissy. Therefore he would have had him killed. This was the law then & they where obeyed. David would not have run down to kill Goliath either. The way gay men act, & present themselves is two feminine.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes Even in the history of 1 Sam & 11 Sam it doesn't mention that they where gay men. Then, it says that David marries Saul's daughter and between him and Jon a lasting friendship in formed, When Jon was killed, David wept for him becuz of the friendship, and enquires of the ppl if Jon had and relatives, they said a Son. David brought him to his house, and kept him becuz the man was a criple, but reqaurdless David kept his word to Jon.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - I bet you think that Rock Hudson had a "lasting friendship" with many men? No where does the Bible mention homosexuality because (as tenorcervantes said many times) the very concept of "homosexuality" did not exist until the late 19th century. Prior to the late 1880's everyone was assumed to be heterosexual, but engaged in homosexual acts and relationships "on occasion". Even Socrates, an openly Gay man, had a wife.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat And if these men didn't except Jesus into their hearts they are right now burning in hell for their sins.. Not, becuz of the Gayness, but becuz they refused Christ in their hearts. When a man or women or child excepts Christ theie sins are done away with, never to be remembered again. But if they didn't not they are paying the price of sin. The wages of sin is death. To be forever out of the presents of God. Just becuz these men where in this situtation, does not mean that it is right
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - You are an obviously sexually frustrated individual who takes pleasure in teaching others what you think the Bible and Jesus Christ stands for, but you are wrong. You drive good people away from Christianity, you drive everyone from Christianity. Are you a Mormon? Do you believe that Jesus was an alien? Most of what you write makes no sense whatsoever to any true Christian.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - I've never seen anywho else who knows so little and types so much. ROTLF! Ask any Bible scholar, both Saul and Jonathan were sexually attracted to David, when David chose Jonathan as his lover, Saul was furious - which is why Saul ordered David killed. Read the Book of Daniel and note how many times Saul and Jonathan "disrobed" David. Most Bible scholars think that the David who slew Goliath was the lover of Jonathan, but not the same King David who had many female lovers.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat This is a bunch of bull, But believe what you want. The David, that met Jon is the same Daivd, that kille Goliath, if he is the son of Jesse. Back then they didn't live long enough if they where caught. You are full of the devil, and the Blood of Jesus is against you.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE Thank you for taking concern in my salvation. But I think I'll keep this one between Jesus and me.
tenorcervantes 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes - I think "Jesus" is the name of her cat. She talks to him all the time.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@tenorcervantes Well, ten, it was a pleasure talking to you, and keep in mind, there is nothing to heard for God. His hand is not to short that he can't reach down and save nor is his ear heavy that he can't hear. He's just a prayer away. Oh! I don't own a cat.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@Atlavocat These gay stories point them out to me, becuz I've never seen one of them. Without a stoning. These are not right practises, for the human race. Their has not been a story of two men that lived in the Bible. Even though their where still ppl practising this evil act of lust. Paul said it should not be that is the reason he wrote about it, becuz they where still doing this in his day. The message wasnt just for them it was for all man kind which would include women. Open your eyes.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - There is only one attempted stoning in the Bible - and Jesus stopped that. Tell me where there are other stonings? I would like to see that. Do you have ANY respect for the truth? Do you lie about everything? I know you have no respect for Jesus Christ because you ignore everything he said.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat When Jesus asked the women, who was caught in adultery, those who are without sin cast the first stone. They all went away, putting down their stones, including the man who she had sex with. Jesus said where are thine accursers,she said theres none. Jesus said I don't accuse you either, (BUT GO & SIN NO MORE) He didn't say, keep doing what you been doing, I don't care. Saul, had Stephen stoned, for preaching the Gospel Acts. Saul had thousands of men & women stoned, & put in prison.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - There is none so blind as he who will not see. My eyes and heart are open, I honestly believe that God loves all people no matter what their sexual orientation. I honestly believe that Jesus Christ is among all groups when they work to help the poor, the sick, the oppressed - even in Gay Pride marches, Jesus is there. Why do you hate so much?
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat You can't get to heaven on good works, you must be born again. No matt wha your sexaul orientation is you must be born again. And when a person excepts Jeus in their hearts, the change will come. The only thing is, is that you and others will have to want to be changed. If God can throw Satan out of heaven and a 1/3 of his angles God can serntenly change a man made of dirt, when He is the one who made us anyway. You don't even claim to be a christian, and you want to keep your style
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@Atlavocat I don't hate gays, I want u to know that God can and will change a man or women into what God has made you, and that is not homosexaul, it is wen you where born a litle boy or a little girl, to grow up and be responsable men and women. Like I said, if you don't want to serve God that is intirely up to you, he will not force himself on you, becuz He is a gentle God. Jesus is a gentle man. Can you see yourself in he mist of God or Jesus bending over with your partner saying this is God
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@Atlavocat Why are you trying to make the Bible accept your unrighteous ways. Why include the Bible any way? You know what Romans says, about it, I wrote you on that in another site. You read it Romans 1:24-32. The Bible says, As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God. You are not seeking God, and his righteousness. You are looking for a loup hole so you won't have to change. There is no back door to Jesus Christ.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
I thought this blog was great! I really liked your point that sexual orientation is not the same as sexual activity... because it's so true. Subscribed.
ChivalrousChauvinist 2 years ago
Interesting.
You know what I like about you?
You are not nasty and vitriolic like many other people who call themselves ex-ex-gays.
I agree with most of what you said aside from the "gift from God" part. Two men and two women were clearly not sexually designed for each other.
But again your calmness and clarity and lack of bitterness is inspiring. Keep listening to God.
TrinidadAdventistGay 2 years ago
Baby you go tell it
chanceluckyindigo 3 years ago
i love this guys videos subscribe to me
asmaibra 3 years ago
You're still bleeding from the same cut - just ure religion has given you some "Spiritual Morphine" and made you cry and blame others all for the love of your faith. Its really sickening to hear your account of what happened in that room - all to make you keep believing and scare you from knowing your real self.Ask me if you want some real help - it might be godless but at least it wont make you cry or wanna commit suicide. Peace dude - try not to stress out like this - early heart attack etc
neomt2 3 years ago
It seems your religion has kinda of blinded you to the fact (especially if you actually even once blamed someone else for being gay) that what your going through is normal curiosity (even the str8est guys go through it - me included) but your prob was you were afraid of being judged - and not being religious I will say "the idea of god/diety's" is meant to curb free will. You are not allowed to be other than what they tell you. (continued next post due to character limit again! lol)
neomt2 3 years ago
I would just like to comment - i've watched ure other video's on here - your ex-gay thingy ones I mean and this - I dunno how to tell you this but...and I say this without malice or sarcasm - I think the only way you will know if you are "gay" is to actually BE in a relationship with a man - and out of all my gay friends that i've asked -not one has had an a-sexsual or non-sexsual experience. (continued next post due to character limit lol)
neomt2 3 years ago
Okay, first of all it looks like yet one MORE person somewhere back there needs to get those "clobber passages" of the NT, FIRST of all, from the original koine Greek, and SECONDLY, in the appropriate context! (historically, literarily, THEOLOGICALLY, etc.)You said this was your first English v-blog, and I did notice you re-hashing a COUPLE of points, but even good old Toastmasters International says it is okay (and even good usually!) to do that up to a point. :) Go C LATTER DAYS, everybody.
bimboblacky 3 years ago
Please keep doing english blogs. Your a great speaker and you explain things really well. You make people really understand things. I was ignorant about the things that you just talked about and you made me see things another way. Thanx very much You could reach out to a lot of people.
toosweetkiki 3 years ago
I said it before and I will say it again you are a trail blazer.
stanley1963261 3 years ago
i am a mormon and i am very nervous about coming out in church because i dont want to go though ex-gay therapy or be excommunicated. i know my parents will be understanding, but i dont know what will happen at church.
rcksmacias 3 years ago 2
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continued again the Bible does not say homosexuality is a "greater" sin than any other sin. All sin is offensive to God. read 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 According to the Bible,God's forgiveness is just as available to a homosexual as it is to an adulterer,murderer,thief, etc. God promises the strength for victory over all sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17).
jengirl63 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
continued from last post
God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible says people are homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27), and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as people are born with a tendency to violence. That does not excuse the person choosing to sin by giving into their sinful desires.if you are born with a greater susceptability for depression, is it ok to cut yourself?
jengirl63 3 years ago
The way i look at it Jengirl is this. Your a blind, idiot. Im gay, 14 year old, grew up in a church, and I have always believed gay was wrong, its bad, i've tried to be straight. I cant, its just not possible, why would a gay man choose to be gay? For attention? No. There is no reason except for attention that you can wave above us. Why would we choose to be harrassed, made fun of, depressed, afraid of parents and friends hating us. Honestly... For attention?
Dleedude 3 years ago
your a dumb bitch, if people could choose to be gay WHO THE HELL WOULD WANT TO BE GAY?> do you choose to be straight? do you choose to like guys? No you just do its what your attrated to, and people like you are dumb bitches
WomanizingBritney 3 years ago
well i personally don't believe in a "gay gene." but that is actually a misconception that all gay men sound and act the same. while i may fit the "stereotype" of having a high-pitched voice and a more "flamboyant" type of behavior, there are definitely many gay men that have deep voices and behave differently. there are even many straight men that have the same mannerisms i do too. so you really can't judge a book by its cover.
tenorcervantes 3 years ago
@tenorcervantes - I agree completely, but there is no doubt that there are "Gay genes" since sexual orientation is genetically linked, but not everyone who is Gay has a Gay gene (and some people who are straight have "Gay genes"). There are hormonal factors in the womb that do affect one's ultimate sexual orientation and I believe those account for various attributes which people consider "Gay" - but (as you said) not all Gay men are "femme" some are very butch - and many Lesbians are lipstick.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
@Atlavocat These genes that you are talking about are they blue or black. These are nothing but demon spirits. that has tricked many ppl into a great lie. The factors in the womb was demon possesion. And there is help, if ppl want it.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 year ago
@MsBREATHOFLIFE - You are the one possessed by demons. Psychiatrists called it "psychosis". Do you hear voices? Are you on medication? You should be.
Atlavocat 1 year ago
you're too cute to be such a bible-thumper
Patrick3183 4 years ago
Good words man.
gaymilitaryman 4 years ago
i think you need therapy
phillydb 4 years ago
therapy in what way?
tenorcervantes 4 years ago