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From: spikeswoman
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  • sieg heil!

    

  • Fucking hell I ain't a so called "red" nor am I a so called "bonehead" but lets get 1 thing straight this is only really aimed at the antifa,sharp"reds" whether you agree with racism or not skrewdriver were a fucking brilliant band, end of! if it's good music you shouldn't deny it or put it down! and secondly were all skinheads and we should stick together! that is all for today maximum respect Joey Essex Skin! not to be confused with joey essex from TOWIE! lol

  • @sailingisgay who's a holocaust denier, i am no more a nazi than you are but was there at the time

  • @sailingisgay actually the were being bussed to the gig to protect the local asians muppet, get your facts right

  • All u fascist wankers are not real skinheads - u are bonheads - poor copy of real working class culture.

    WORKING CLASS PRIDE - HATE NAZIS!!

  • @23Czarny what would you know about real skinheads

  • OI FROM THE U.S.A

    CONSERVATIVE.RIGHT.UNITED.SKIN­HEADS

    WYOMING CHAPTER!!

    FUCK NAZIS FUCK COMMIES!! PRIDE IN YOUR COUNTRY!!!

  • nazi victory lol. if you nazis were so victorious during the 80s and 90s where the hell are you now?

    you can't mass more than 20 people.

    Even the nationalists (EDL) reject you and beat you

  • @DarkIgor there was an event last week in the UK with 800 right wing skinheads at, bit more than 20 don't you think

  • @brikel Right wing skinheads maybe,but not nazis and fascists. Even the rightwing skins today burn swastika flags.

    And BTW i doubt there were 800, what event are you refering to?

  • @DarkIgor ISD memorial gig and yes there were 800 there, why would a right wing skinhead buy any flag just to burn it, you've been watching too much you tube

  • @brikel I dont know, ask the EDL

    Give me some pics or footage from the gig

  • @DarkIgor do your own donkey work

  • @brikel I don't know,ask the EDL.

    Some footage or pics from the gig?

  • @brikel ISD memorial gig

  • antifascist are dirty pigs 

  • Greetings from Kangaroo to all that were there too having fun with the reds..

  • I was there at Waterloo too. What a great way to have some fun before the concert. Great gig, Ian was great even though he was singing with stitches in his mouth. Was well worth the trip from Germany.

    On top of all that free Public transport to the gig!!! free tube then bus ride.

  • Im gutted I missed it. I know alot of people who were there and the anti facist got a really good hiding,and when the skinheads stood there ground they ran off behind the police.Where were the reds at jubilee gardens,now that was a good day

  • The reds lost by the way, as you will KNOW if you were there. It was one sided at first until all the real men turned up and gave them a good stabbing and smashing. Pity none of the commie bastards died really, well, pity ALL of them didn't die haha. Maybe next time eh?

  • afa scums were running better when skins were on the attack. Most of them were pakis and juice.

  • nazi victory

  • The 1000+ RED scum got smashed by 500 patriots

  • @Obergefreiter1

    Don't think so kid. For a start, AFA never had 1000 members. I remember figures closer to 500 Red Action/AFA and about 2000 fash. The big skinhead at the beginning taking on about 10 blokes was from Red Action by the way.

  • correct if i'm wrong but didn't the bnp get fucked all over the place that day?.....fascist wankers!

  • Ha ha if you were there then you would know you are talking crap and thats why you have been kicked off the streets tll this day. No passaran.

  • But not when the EDL are about eh you muggy red cunt!

  • @theblackmafia71 YOUVE BEEN TOLD TO STOP CALLING OTHER PEOPLE NAMES : ) WANKERS LIKE YOU DONT HAVE THAT RIGHT : ) STOP TRYING TO ACT HARD YOUR JUST A WANK !!!!!!!!!!

  • it really makes me laugh the comments from both sides that were obviously not there, half the cunts who comment were 10 years lod at the time, get a life and comment on something you know and not something you have read about

  • SÅ JÄVLA RÄTT!(Y)

  • Fash got bashed at Waterloo everyone knows that!!!

  • The truth is there were almost no real mass skirmishes. All skirmishes went down in 5 vs 5 numbers. And there were alot of them because the place of the gig wasnt announced,just a redirection place. And AFAs attacked the arrivals. The gig which was meant to be one of the biggest turned out to be a disaster.

  • From everything I know of this the reds only got one up on a few small groups of skins early in the day but once the day went on the nationalists started fucking the reds over big time and the cops had to step in and save their asses, the nationalists had total victory and their concert went ahead trouble free, The reds only succeeded in making a lot of noise and made themselves look silly. They even went on tv and whinged that the cops didn't do enough to help them.

    Go the Nationalists!!!!

  • Mate I was there, didnt run once, your lot got pasted all day, 100% red victory, blood and honour havent publicised a gig in the UK in 15 years cos of the beating they got that day

  • anyone who was there that day knows what went on the AFA had it all their own way until a large group from west london and another large group of west ham turned up within 5 minutes of each other, then the AFA lot were on the back foot until they eventually sought cover behind the old bill and the right wing lot moved off to go to the gig, and were mainly rounded up and nicked, a fair few skinheads got a good kicking earlier in the day, but to say that there were hospitals full of them is a joke

  • @isl232323 I'm sure it was easy not to run with a line of cops in front of you, I have had many dealings with left wing reds and if there is one thing I am 100% sure of is all reds are cowards who won't stand strong unless they outnumber ya at least ten to one. Reds also like to run to the police and scream bloody murder if ya even judt say boo to em.

  • we done you at waterloo..

    RAZORS EDGE..

    rocking the reds ...!!!

  • Comment removed

  • its hard to tell who won that video seeming as theres two real bits of violence, one, 2 antifascists take on 7 skinheads and don't do that badly, and the second, just antifascists throwing bricks at skinheads and not really taking any hits.. so how did fascists win this, seeming as all the compiler of this video could do to even it out was exaggerate the numbers of anti-fascists

  • Antifascists won at Waterloo ;)

  • in the morning they were beating up lone skinheads in groups of 20/30 later on they got smashed out of the station and across the bridge and had to hide behind old bill

  • @isl232323 you werent there

  • WHITE POWER!!!

    Jews and Americans are imposing our tolerance for immigrants to destroy us! they kill a white Europe, the influx of immigrants

    FUCK JEWS FUCK AMERICA dirty creature

  • TheRussianhools If you know your politics and I hope you do, but surely you are aware that the jew Zionist run America. So for the good(Friends) people in America with likes the David Duke take a step back a lttle were all under the NWO ZOG Blunder

  • russia? What a joke. Life expectancy for men is 60. Go drink some more vodka you ignorant russian fuck.

  • you about something you know that Russia

    My british stupit friend

  • Huh? Finish school you ignorant fascist.

  • rogue you could not talk because you stupid pig!

    you give us even for all the answers, along with America and Israel

  • I would rather be in America than piggy putin's pathetic russia.

  • You are afraid of us panic

  • @ScotSNP And I would rather be in England than piggy Salmonds Scotland :)

  • @Histonite hows your rape came coming along? Deflowered any 12 year old girls? Looked up any false report by Darko Trifunović slandering the international red cross? Gee you are on you tube 24/7 are you not? How's your polish wife going?

  • @ScotSNP Scotand? What a joke. Life expectancy the lowest in western europe. Go drink some more buckfast ignorant sweaty..

  • Hail victory!

    WHITE POwER!

  • If Waterloo was your victory i'd hate to see your defeats!

  • jhahahahah look at all the sheep." i dont have my own opinion im just gonna smash that black kiddy up 'cos im so insecure and pathetic. grow the fuck up.

  • No the skinheads put up a very good fight and defended themselves while the misguided anti-racist mob ran amok terrorising ordinary people and damaging property. You anti-racists showed your true colours that day as thugs and hooligans.

  • yes, poor nazis. all they ever wanted was world peace.

  • Actually? Yes, yes I believe they did. One Folk, One Faith- One world ONE RACE!

  • is that why they promote genocide? since my guess is you dont support racial mixing the only way to have one race is to exterminate the others. hypocrite.

  • @DarkIgor lol..

  • HAIL THE WHITE RACE

  • @daveyRIR  FUCK YOU ! SKINHEADS ONLY RED !

  • 14/88 red scum

  • you nazi cunts ....

    your so dumb(ian stuart ment on you)

    hitler want to kill and fuck you....

    and then you screaming seig heil...

    traders of britain..

    your funny....kiss :)))

  • LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH! Seriously. It gets annoying when some whiny leftie faggot goes off in moonspeak.

  • maybe he lives in another country, eh genius?

  • the skins are a rowdy lot that like to make a bit of noise thats it nothing else,there no clued up enuff to get organized,plus they dont see who the real enemy is,focus on bankers, politians shit like this not some crusty how dosnt know his arse from his elbow or mr mohamed at the local corner shop

  • i do believe blood and honour got fucked into the ground...you rascist (betraying true working class) twats. Get yourselves an education.....the real problems in this country are not created by immigrants or reds, they're created by politicians, bankers and business men who continue to fuck everybody on a daily basis. I can only assume you rascist twats were bullied as children..(Fuckin traitors to this land)...your grandfathers would be fucking ashamed of you all.

  • as 4 yr little comment on blood & honour GOING STRONGER GROWING STRONGER than B4

    U AIN'T GOT A CLUE COMMIE CUNTS

    14/88

  • if u red scum h8 us so much y do u come on youtube watching skinhead/skrewdriver video's?????

    u bunch of poncey cunts

    14/88

  • A.C.A.B

  • was this not the day the nazis got smashed in the u.k?

  • no it wasnt.u couldnt have been there.skrewdriver still played.white power.

  • and why could i have not been there. were you there also norma?or did you watch it on the telly with spanner?

  • yeah those fucking nazi cunts got a good kicking that day, even the fighting amongst everyone else had subsided for a day just so they can all gang up on these pathetic aryan wankers!!!!

  • skrewdriver really got a name for themselves after this gig. They almost became a household name in Britian after this. If only the left wing had just left them alone and let them play their gig then it wouldn't have got on the news and skrewdriver wouldn't have got such massive free publicity from it all.

  • Waterloo, isn't that when the Nazi scum got the kicking of a lifetime? Ha ha ha

  • no it's when cunts like you got bum raped by nigger's

  • no it wasnt, dont believe all that is said to you

  • dats a mate o mine at 27secs giving the ol V. he was called Jimmy the Croak in them days

  • good for you (14)

  • fuk yer

  • Hi. At 48 secs in this vid where the people are standing outside of them shops, does anyone know if that is by Becontree underground station in Dagenham? I know the gig wasn't there but it looks exactly like it. Cheers

  • me and some lads tried to make our way to Dag that night but were too busy cracking heads

  • Commie heads I hope?!

  • wot other fuken heads matey? 88

  • What a paranoid rant, havent had any laws apart from English law in this country.Get a fucking life, and yes i would fight fascism till the day i die, not trying to sound tough like you bonehead twats just the fucking truth.

    Look you lost the battle of Waterloo,you fascist scum are relics of the 70s/80s who will not be coming back cos most have grown up and probaly got black girlfriends etc. Just curl up and die, you are pathetic and not worth the shit on our shoes

  • We serve no masters and are not as thick as to hate someone cos of skin colour, if muslims started trying to put their religious laws onto us then we would fight that too, im not political correct commie,just hate fascist cos they are lonely sad perverts who want to control everyone and everything and i will fight that till the day i die

  • muslims are pushing there laws onto us same as the niggers and every other none white in this country we are forced to put up with this shit and what is worse is the traitors that defend it. fight til the day i die haha hard words, and we more than held our own on that day you just tryed to be sly cunts by catching stragglers in groups of 5 to 10 at the station but you soon had it back when everyone reformed........

  • mate..you like a punch up..we like a punch up,you got a result..i got on stage at the redskins and put the boot in..it's life,and how it should be,please god we stay cililised and just have a good fucking tear up..as to politics,don't vote..never will..those fucking twats in parliment DO kill people..so on we go..it's not the winning it's the taking part..ciao for now tovaritch.

  • Look,the fascist/bonehead music scene in this country is fucked!Secret little gigs in shitty little pubs,yous tried to go mainstream and got clobbered at the main event and waterloo, fact.The problem with a self deluded movement that believes its own propaganda of macho posturin is that sooner or later someones gonna call your bluff.Thats what happened at waterloo,bang on about smashin the reds as much as you like,the facts speak for themselves.Sometimes the truth hurts fash scum.Get over it!

  • Their music is illegal, it is illegal because the truth is very dangerous to the filthy rat Jew. If it was so ridiculous why would anyone bother to stop them?

    Enjoy serving your masters you blinded idiot.

  • Why do all the fascists on here think that you have to be a lefty to hate fascism, i hate left wing shit as much as right, they are all there to control and ive no love for either. Im English and proud of it which is why i hate fascist scum!!

  • Enjoy your 40% muslin population you fucking idiot. Face it, there is no such thing as England anymore.

  • Get a life you paranoid fool,i love living in England and some of that has to do with the openess of people and acceptance of diversity, why cant you face the facts that hundreds of thousands of English people live abroad or is that ok? also do you forget that England tried to rule half the world but failed and that England has always been made up of different races, why do fascists have romantic idea of England that never exsisted? and define being English- fish and chips, ha ha

  • Never surrender!!, you fascist twats got a good kicking that day, yes i was there and it finished off the last remaining scum of the NF and Combat 18 in this country.

  • here here !!!all evil racist nazis are racist evil nazis.long live the labour party and antifa and searchlies and unite against facism and love muzik hate evil naZi racism BLACK &WHITE UNITE EBONY AND IVORY etc etc etc etc god im bored of listening to this lefty SHITE

  • WE NEVER GIVE UP!!!!NO SURRENDER.88.

  • These racial warriors too busy getting caught with bombs under the bed and downloading child porn.

    Sick nazi fuckers.

  • The Redscum were very good at throwing bottles from a distance.When it came to toe to toe they were fucking useless (didnt have any bricks in their handbags)we fucking nailed you.Obviously you havent watched the origional news at 10 footage you must of been watching ANL version. Because you obviously wernt there.

  • You are still trying to pretend you won! unbelievable. You got the shit kicked out of you. Blood and Honour never dared publicly advertise a gig again in britain after this debacle. Twats.

  • "Waterloo couldn't escape if I wanted to..."

  • happy days. adolf hitler, jon tyndall, david duke, nick griffin...your boys took a hell of a beating

  • Iwas there,the reds got twatted, the police walked everone to the gig, the pub put the ale on, and the gig went ahead.

  • LOL! I think the only person you are fooling is yourself

  • Traitors.The influx of immigrants will affect you all.You'll see.Fucking REDS.Thank fuck for the credit crunch.Let's start to repatriate these people NOW!!!88

  • go on then reds, if you really do have an unedited video, then upload it, otherwise stop talkin shit

  • he he he dipshit maybe when you're finished wankin off to skrewdrivel you'd care to join the rest of us in the real world.What a mug!

    REMEMBER WATERLOO 92 THE DAY BLOOD AND HONOUR DIED ON ITS ARSE

  • How come the facists posted this when they got their arses completely kicked on the day? There were hospital wards full of these heroes of the master race.

  • the skinheads are thugs

    funny how the fights are all started by anti facist activists

  • The brit boneheads gibbed it and left their european comrades to get a right shoeing at the re-direction point! One of the main reasons B&H was never a major movement in the UK! Ha ha.

  • Funny innit. Apparently Waterloo was some kind of victory for Blood & Honour. And yet you haven't had the bottle to hold a public gig since. Bottlers, one and all.

  • let party

  • Leeds next........!!!!!!!!1

  • my husband did this ,my husband said that...yawn..once again a case of missing the point!Maybe I do have a peanut brain,and maybe I don't, but at least it's mine and I can think for myself...you're only young so wise up now and get on with your life cos you'll grow out of it eventually my friend, mark my words- remember POLITICAL VICTORIES is what matters at the end of the day,not beer fuelled bravado.That was a brownshirt thing and look what happened to them.

    I luv it...NEXT?

  • i just said me hubby was there so i do know wanker who cares if i was just out of nappies i got me mates and all that lot to tell what you got fuck all peanut brain cos ya lost it 14/88

  • HE HE HE

  • So nazi wankers,and I speak figuratively because of course you're all too busy pullin each others dicks,where's the put down eh?Where's the fash explanation of what happened?Where's the pathetic threats that you're so fond of?Can't argue with the truth fuckwits eh?Honestly it's like torturin insects in a jar ie not worth any more of my time!What's that old sayin..."empty berrels make the most noise" so where's yer noise fascist cunts!

    RASH (///)

  • So you see fascist fuckwits you can bleat on about how hard you are as much as you like...when all is said and done it's about political victories and I'd say that waterloo was a victory on both scores,you can't deny the course of recent history...

    GOOD NIGHT WHITE PRIDE

    WE ARE THE REDS

    YOURS WITH A LUCOZADE BOTTLE

    RASH(///)

  • By the way;

    ian stuarts family own factories up north wich made him a middle class wanker siding with the bosses

    paul burnely(aka bellamy) comes from a middle class scotish family.His father is a well known scottish artist hence the name change.

    Chubby chris henderson was a little rich kid slummin it who evetually settled in thailand and had a mixed race child(good man!)The hard core of the nazi boneheads have always been middle class thats why they got no stomach for the fight...

  • ...isolated from the innercities and the white working class who they consider to be their natural allies but who now consider the fash to be a bunch of idiots.So while you hold your shitty little word of mouth gigs in heanor or where ever they are these days,us white working class people in the inner cities carry on regardless, drinkin with and socialising with our black and asian neighbours,and guess what we love it...

  • YAAAAAAWN - Like shootin fascist fish in a barrel...

  • Evidently so.

  • ...on the day.Waterloo had a ripple effect on the nazi music scene that is still being felt today.They can no longer sell their shite merchandise openly,they are no longer able to openely advertise their gigs..its hard to create a mass movement when the masses keep stompin on your head boys eh?We can talk all we like about who kicked who the point is the fash can't even mobilise a mob on the streets of london today,they're all out in the sticks...

  • ...cunt.the day was a disater for c18 and their raggedy arsed bunch of football hooligans,who came badly unstuck in the little driver pub in bow.Later that night they started to fight amongst themselves in charing cross mugs.My point is simple, the fash had a physical agenda in london and they got smashed-there is little point in pretending to be hard if you're not someones gonna call your bluff.Thats what happened at waterloo and the fash were found wanting...

  • ...brownshirts I believe-me thinks you boys protest too much d'you know what I mean.Anyways after waterloo Ian stuart true to form bottles it and fucks off out of London,c18 move in and fucks the nazi bonehead movement up the arse and so begins the infighting ending in one murder and two life sentences.Meanwhile the mechanic strikes and the master race lose one band "violent storm" and then stuart himself.The fash were so defeated in london they can't even hold a memorial gig for the sad old...

  • ...conveniently bused out of the area by their mates the police!Blood and honour were shown to be the bunch of spineless little cowards that they are and their organisational skills were laughable.Maybe thats because their great hero and security man nicky crane was in the lighthouse project in ladbroke grove dying of aids, wich I assume he contracted while making gay porn films!For such a homophobic bunch there certainly are a lot of gay nazis-ana old tradition started by Rhome and the ...

  • ...with cawardly little boneheads runnin around like headless chickens-they thought they'd be safe ha!Meanwhile ian stuart and the "leadership" of the "masterace" are sittin in victoria scratchin their bottlejob arses while their foreign "brothers" and those not in the know got their heads cracked for race and nation.The main point is though that the nazis didn't get the publicity of holding an openly advertised gig in London town instead they had to hold it in a shitty little pub in eltham...

  • I was there fuckwits.Millwalls "top" bonehead,Tags, shit himself and had a heart attack.Tha people on the bridge are AFA chuckin quarry tiles on the fash.A small group of AFA walk into a group of 50-60 fash and still fight their way out- you can see it in the footage.One car load of nazis got trashed, the pigs couldn't control the streets and panicked.Half the millwall crew fought for us,ask Nicky Cooper of the nf who it was that laid him out!The fascist redirection point was completely taken...

  • ha ha nice editing you fash cunts. i have the whole clip on vhs somewhere which includes the bits where your lot get battered - especially funny bit where bondy from sunderland gets knocked on his arse by some afa lad. Fucking hilariuous seeing that twisted cunt getting knocked down. you couldn't have done anything without having chelsea and the fucking pigs backing you up. fuck you all fash cunts.

  • God, i wish i was there man!

    Reds getting their asses kicked once again! Fuck'em let them have it.

  • 14/88!!!!!!!!! nie ilość lecz siła:)))

  • did none of your lads get hospitalised then???lol. im sorry i cant glamourise this day with bullshit like you exred. but we won then and were still winning now. cor arent the b.n.p doing well? 14/88

  • trapped. because the police were holding us there. my day was ok, i went shopping in carnaby street, had a few beers. i didnt get nicked or any hassle from any reds. the weather was lovely. 14/28

  • my husband was able to get to the gig and beat fuck out of atleast 3 reds on his way there so nothing you reds did spoiled it!

  • you were just out of nappies when this kicked off, stop mouthing about something you know fuck all about.

  • Well your husband would say that wouldn't he?!Stop borin everyone and get a life child...pah!

  • i was trapped in the station, there was about a 100 of us in there and about 2000 of your mob outside. i know of 2 people who was hospitalised. a friend called julie who was mugged aswell and a german pensioner called max.b.t.w. i was one who never got to the gig. but come on, you must admit that with the gig going on and so many of you getting arrested. that was a victory for us. 14/88

  • Does the word "trapped" not give the game away just a little bit? I wouldnt call any fight I was in when I got "trapped" and my mates got hospitalised a victory. Doesnt sound like you had a great day madskull.

  • exred does your mum know you have been sniffing glue (and daddys y fronts) you seem to be having crazy hallucinations!

    14/88.

  • exred you are a fucking prick. and your mother drinks canal water. i was there aswell. we won ne ne ne ne. 14/88

  • Another one with a seriously dodgy memory. I suppose you think the Nazis won World War II as well.

  • to anyone whos reading this, the reds won and the gig never happened, and all the right wing were either hospitalised or put in prison. well the left were rejoiceing and skipping happily singing tom robinsons sing if your proud to be gay. and munching on tofu.

    exred go on your peace marches and hug a tree.

    p.s have you tidied your room!

  • Madskull, you seem to think I'm some 15 year old keyboard warrior or a hippy lentil muncher. I'm neither. At the danger of repeating myself (but you seem a bit slow on the uptake so I'll say it again slowly for you) I...was...there. I was in my early twenties at the time so you do the sums as to my age now. I never said the gig didnt happen just that we (AFA) controlled your redirection point for several hours (you never got it back at any point) and we put good numbers of you in the hospital.

  • Most of the nickings were on our side that day as well. Which backs up my argument that the police were protecting you all day.

  • I can't even count the number of reds that i have opened up.....

  • Skinheads need to grow out their hair, dress normal.. Blend into socity... Then start hunting reds and other scum.. Skinheads can get alot done since they have murder in their minds... Just blend, then act... Break into 10man cells.. One hidden nazi = one action, one thousand hidden skins, one thousand actions...

  • lol you left out the fighting scenes where the skinheads get owned by red action.

  • it was a great day brutus.victory in London.our time will come,our struggle continues and no power on earth will stop us.hail victory

  • I know you guys are good at historical revisionism but which part of a near day long kicking that you received would you highlight as being a victory? One of your lot had a heart attack he was so frightened! A car full of boneheads was nearly turned over on its roof, many other nazis were hospitalised. I know, I was there.

  • exfag... er, exred.. Everyone and their mother knows that reds cant fight, thats why the cops always protect you.. You just run you're mouth on here from the safty of you're mothers cunt... YOU are a true faggot... Just like all reds.....

  • The cops were protecting your pals all day. As I said earlier I was there, I know. Some reds are middle class pacifists who couldnt punch out of a wet paper bag (thats the ones you like to take on, btw) Other reds ie Red Action and AFA could fight like fuck.

  • What color is the sky in you're world exred?. Half of you commie's are faggots(like you) and the other half are drug addicts.. Even if the reds out number nazis in the streets(which is now changing)the reds always get their ass kicked.. That is, when the police are not protecting you.. I have been in many street battels in 3 different nations, and like i said, everyone knows that you guys(left) are weak guttless faggots....

  • And to tell you the truth exred, i think that the right should stop with rallys and marches. I think that they (right) should grow out their hair and blend into the sick socity.. Then begin hunting reds within their beds.. The only solution for the left is the rope.. I say we kill em' all! Blood is cheep.... And like i said, red action afa, you're all faggots and drug addicts. There are a hundred pix of you guys on You-tube getting you're ass beat, with just a few of the right getting beat..

  • Face it exred, you're a faggot. The day is quickly coming where there will be no more talk.. only blood and fire... To all of the brothers out there... KILL THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!

  • right on brother

    slagt sie tot slagt sie tot slagt die kommunisten wieder