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From: ChristianTruthHammer
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  • O.T. saints were saved by keeping the law?

    You might want to read Romans 4:1-12

  • @Bill244888

    I have. What about it? How does Abraham disprove the fact that the law is a system of faith and works for salvation? Didn't you ever read Galatians 3:16-17? What about John 1:17? Ezekiel 3:20 (!)? Psalm 15? If salvation in all dispensations is by faith alone, what do you do with Matthew 25:31-46? Or Revelation 22:14? I'm guessing you'll just privately interpret them and pretend they don't mean exactly what they say.

  • @ChristianTruthHammer

    Abraham's faith was credited as righteousness. The law in and of itself is powerless to bring about salvation

    Rom. 3:20

    "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin."

    Acts 13:38-39

    "Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

  • @Bill244888

    Any appeal you make to Abraham is invalid because the law came 430 years after. I guess you haven't read Galatians 3:16-17 after all. And if you've read John 1:17, apparently you can't remember that Moses came AFTER Abraham.

    Of course the law doesn't justify! That supports my view, not yours! Under the law a man is either innocent or guilty, and atoning sacrifices provide forgiveness, but not justification, clearance, or the taking away of sins (Ex 34:7, Heb 10:4).

  • @ChristianTruthHammer

    Rom. 8:3

    "For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do." (past tense, not "can no longer do")

    Rom.9:30-32a

    "What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works."

  • @Bill244888

    Again, Rom 8:3 doesn't disprove what I'm saying. The law can't do everything that Jesus Christ can.

    You know, the rest of that verse says that was a stumblingstone for Israel. Why would it be a stumblingstone if Israelites had been saved by faith alone for centuries under the law? Why, when this discussion continues in Rom 10, is there a contrast drawn between the righteousness which is of faith and the righteousness which is of the law (works Rom 10:5)?

  • @ChristianTruthHammer Faith secures our salvation(Rom. 3:28). Works validate the reality of that faith (James 2, Eph. 2:10)

    John 6:28-29

    "Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.” (Why didn't Jesus tell them to perfectly obey the law?)

  • @Bill244888

    James is written to Jews (Jas 1:1). Eph 2:10 only describes what we're supposed to do. But now you're on NT doctrine even though your original contention was over OT salvation.

    Jesus offered the kingdom in Mat 11 and the Jews rejected it. John 6 comes after that (Mat 14:15-21 cf. Jn 6:5-13). AND they're not asking about eternal life like the man in Mat 19:16, they're asking about the works of God. His answers relate to his death (then-future) for eternal life. Not OT!

  • @Bill244888

    Now, I've answered all of your contentions. Why have you sidestepped the rest of the verses I cited in my first response? Please explain to me how your view that salvation is ALWAYS by faith alone lines up with the PLAIN, LITERAL meaning of the following: Ezekiel 3:20, Psalm 15, Matthew 25:31-46, and Revelation 22:14. I've got more, but I'll stop where my first response stopped for now.

  • Next time you go to a restaurant ask your waiter to divide up portions for you and your guests. When he returns with a Quiche Lorraine looking intact, ask him why he didn't DIVIDE it as you had ordered. When he tells you he and the chefs HANDLED it instead, I hope you'll remember this dubious correction of yours.

    DIVIDE means separate (verb) whereas HANDLE EXPLAIN PREACH TEACH CUTTING IN A STRAIGHT LINE (wtf) and STRAIGHTFORWARD DEALING (again wtf) may be commendable but not God's stated will

  • I would disagree that John is filled with Pauline doctrine. Where do you find Christ's DEATH and RESURRECTION of Christ?

    It speaks of Israel believing on Christ as the promised Messiah. Not believing on His death, burial and resurrection (1 Cornthians 15:1-4).

  • This is why I am not 1611 KJV believer... Because its king James onlyism is unbiblical. But I use both KJV and Modern Translation. Plus I don't trust any translation including KJV. But yet again, Holy Ghost guide me the Truth. I am a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ. But I love you as brother in Christ. God bless.

  • @Jesusistheway2001

    So believing the Bible is unbiblical? How does that work? Could you please give me some scripture that proves this? Only you'd better give it to me in English because it's the only language I know fluently (1 Cor 14:19). God said he'd preserve his words (Ps 12:6-7, Is 40:8, Matt 24:35), so where can I get them today? You say the Holy Ghost will guide you, yet you apparently don't know the means by which he does so (1 Cor 2:13). You, sir, are very confused!

  • Thanks for posting brother. I've been to both sides too. I got messed up with the ' Jesus Is Lord' website when I was trying to come back to God from a life of being a drunken dopehead after I was chased off by a nut like Sanderson around 1990.. I was reading testimonies of people who came out of witchcraft and drugs etc and felt hope for the first time in a long time when I had a bomb dropped on me titled 'Can a man walk away from Jesus' She quoted Heb 6 & 2 Pete 2:22 & It nearly destroyed me.

  • Comment removed

  • @neekothesecond Don't rely on feelings, rely on God's Word alone. Faith alone. Amen.

  • @MrOphachew

    "What does the Bible say about 'Rightly Dividing?'"

    2 Timothy 2:15

    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    Neither verse you gave negates this truth. In fact, one of them proves it's the scriptures that interpret the scriptures, not some stupid egotistical hierarchy that claims infallibility while it ignores 98% of the Bible, gets another 1 somewhat correct, and takes the rest out of context.

  • @MrOphachew

    The same Karl Keating who says "Have you been saved, friend?" is an awkward question? The same Karl Keating who thinks he can sweep eternal security under the rug because he can show you some verses, taken out of context and applied to the wrong people (as this video proves), that indicate somebody (not a Christian) can lose salvation? The same Keating who doesn't understand the mathematical proof of Biblical prophecy? Approved? Thanks for the laugh!

    Have you been saved, friend?

  • You say the KJV is the only version that gets the word "study" right. The Greek word, in ALL manuscripts, is σπούδασον, which has the semantic range "be diligent, eager, or strive" In no Greek text does it mean "study" as in "academic engagement." The KJV translates the same word (same form) in 2Tim4:9 and 21 as "do thy dilligence." Latin "studeo" means "devote oneself to", which is how KJV translators understood the word. The NASB rightly translates it "be diligent" for modern English speakers.

  • @JoshuaAnswers

    We're not talking about Greek. We're talking about English. This is something that requires study. KJB got it right. NASV is a piece of trash. In the same verse, that idiotic mess tells you to "accurately [handle] the word of truth" without giving you the METHOD! Show me one person who believes the point of this video that isn't KJ only and got it from the NASV.

  • @ChristianTruthHammer

    Woah calm down sir. No need to get angry and violent with words, those are attitudes of the flesh. And actually, since the Greek manuscripts are the autographs from which all versions derive their words, KJV or NASB, THAT is where the meaning hangs. If you say that the english and all its extrapolations are authoratative you are heading down a dangerous path.

    P.S. Maybe no other versions lead to your conclusions because your conclusions are wrong. Hmmm...

  • @JoshuaAnswers

    Or my conclusions are right and the new versions have taken away the key to understanding them. Meanwhile, you come along and assume everything you've been taught is right and ignore 80% of the evidence I present that shows it's not (in any "reliable version" you care to name). So you make a video response tripping over yourself and taking my remarks out of context to show just how ignorant/deceitful you really are. Congratulations.

  • @ChristianTruthHammer

    We both have had teachers. You assume your are right, I assume mine. Right? Well no, we both know that a person committed to studying the Word of God comes to his own conclusions through hermeneutics. Please stop insulting my intelligence and my education by calling me down. I don't slander your education or lack thereof, I address your arguments one at a time. Sorry I don't have the time to reply to everthing.

  • @JoshuaAnswers

    "He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him."-Proverbs 18:13

    Did you or did you not finish watching my video before you answered? If you didn't, you deserve every bit of shame you're getting.

    I didn't assume anything. I studied this out very carefully. Remember your objection about "do"? What must I do? Well the jailer asked the same question in Acts 16, and I covered that if you would pay attention instead of ignoring the rest of the video!

  • @ChristianTruthHammer

    What shame are you referring to? I did watch the whole video. I remember the part about Paul and the Jailor. You are right that they answer differently, but look at the context: Paul gives a straightforward gospel message because the inquirer was a gentile responding in faith to the revelation of God's power. Jesus gives a cryptic answer because he had not yet been revealed, the asker was a Jewish, and the setting was didactic. Context is King, first rule of exegesis.

  • @JoshuaAnswers

    "Context is King, first rule of exegesis."

    Where in the Bible does it say that?

    You're calling Jesus Christ a liar. You're saying he didn't mean what he said. It isn't cryptic. It's plain as day. The scriptural solution is that a testament is of no strength at all while the testator (Christ) liveth, and he was still living in Matthew 19 but had already died in Acts 16. Per you, I could tell a staunch atheist inquiring insincerely that he should keep the commandments. What a joke!

  • Brother, brother, brother! Slow Down! You are becoming Ruckman-like in your very unattractive style of filthy, foolish jesting.

    You make some good points, but give the sarcasm a rest. You can make your points plainly and in love, and I don't believe that always means soft, flowery, and gentle. But you are over-the-top way too often.

  • @THISISBRENTINOKINAWA

    For one thing, I consider "Ruckman-like" a compliment, so thanks even though that's not how you meant it. Also, could you provide some examples of this "filthy" jesting? Surely filthy is too strong a word for anything said here. You might want to tone down.

    What I'm dealing with in this video goes against the prevailing attitude of most Christians. I find sarcasm about those firmly-engrained traditions helps show how wrong they are. Is there scripture to back your rebuke?

  • @ChristianTruthHammer I was hinting at Ephesians 5:4 "Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks." Sorry you didn't get that.

    Do you agree with HOW Ruckman says many, or ALL, of the things he says?

    Like I said, you made some good points in this video, but I honestly had to turn it off because I just couldn't stomach the bits tempting Charismatics to drink poison or have a snake bite them in the face.

  • @ChristianTruthHammer The point you were making to/about Charismatics was fine, it's just the how that I can't take. If you want to rebuke and judge the excesses and non Biblical practices of many Charismatics you'll have to get in line . . . behind me, although you need to realize that there are many who are doctrinally Charismatic who do not practice many of the things which you apparently assume that all of them do.

  • @THISISBRENTINOKINAWA

    Well, I was neither jesting nor speaking filthy. I meant what I said. I'm pointing out that this admittedly harsh and extreme example is perfectly within the bounds of scripture IF those signs and wonders are still going on today. Paul got bit by a viper (Acts 28:3-6). It's not tempting anybody to do anything. You know as well as I they won't do it; especially the ones who know they're fakes, i.e. the leaders who should know better. How is that different from Matthew 23?

  • @ChristianTruthHammer Well, Jesus sharply rebuked them, using the strongest terms to do so, but can you say that He wished or dared them to do themselves harm? If you think that is what He was saying in "Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers", then maybe you're right. I would still make a distinction between that and what you said, but I'll leave it to you and the Holy Spirit from here on out. Maybe what Paul said, wishing that some would "cut themselves off", is on par with what you said?

  • @ChristianTruthHammer I'd like to ask you also why you say "IF those signs and wonders are still going on today"? What is your reason for believing that they don't?

  • @THISISBRENTINOKINAWA

    As for Ruckman, how he says things very rarely bothers me. I don't remember the last time it did. Even if it does I just ignore the manner and listen to what he says, weighing that against the scriptures. I've learned a lot by that practice.

    For what it's worth, the snake bite in the face is about the peak of harshness in this video. Once you get past that it's mostly smooth sailing.

  • @shadowgeyser

    Nope, mostly just finding time to do it. I wanted to get it done way back when we still had 10 minute upload limits, but then it would have been several parts. I think it's better this way.

  • Great teaching brother. You did a good job putting everything together.

    I had a guy tell me I was wrong for saying that salvation in the Millennial kingdom was by WORKS only. I asked him how people would get saved by faith when Jesus is PHYSICALLY present on the earth? He said its not works but rather "obedience"! LOL! Oh yeah, got me there!

    Again, good job on this study!

  • @husky394xp

    LOL that is funny.

    Thanks. That means a lot, coming from you. It was your nondispensational contradictions message that got me on the right track.

  • @ChristianTruthHammer Praise the Lord! I'm glad to hear that my message was a help to you.

  • @husky394xp

    Yeah, this is one of those things that, when you get it, is like a light bulb turning on. Everything starts to make more sense. Then a few months ago I got to show this to a guy who was doubting his salvation. He switched from the NIV to KJB, repented of his Calvinism, and got a few other guys straightened out on the version issue. That was quite a blessing. In case I never told you before, your rapture stuff solidified me on that issue too. Keep it up. You're making a difference.

  • ugh sorry i meant "chosen people"

  • But that NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

    Galatians 3:11

  • @turnsouth

    Exactly. The law doesn't justify anybody. If you keep the law, that's your righteousness. Read the context too. Verses 10-13. "Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them...Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law." It even tells you in verse 12 that the law is not of faith. There's no way the OT is the same as the NT. They had to live it.

  • Interesting perspective... Would you consider yourself a dispensationalist?

  • @Itrytotestify

    Yes, definitely.

  • @ChristianTruthHammer

    Since Jews are the "true people of God" why has every Jew I've met been an ultra-jerk? I'm not being facetious, have you seen this as well?

  • @jackavgn

    Can't say I've noticed that, but then I haven't met enough Jews to know personally. However, lots of Christians I know are jerks too. I can even be a jerk sometimes. Good thing God is merciful and gracious.

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