Single Payer Healthcare

[Yankhadenough]

Hey Boomer and everybody, I have heard that Walmart and Costco have cheaper copays for meds regardless of your plan's copays. Is this true?

[spring1978ukma]

Yes, they do have a list of meds you can get at 4 or 9 dollars depending on what it is. Is that what you were referring to?

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma Yes, thanks ! I have heard of that but never get around to going there since my WC meds are at my regular pharmacy. I will make a point of getting any other prescriptions at Walmart, if they are on that list. Is that even for folks without meds plan, or do you know ?

[spring1978ukma]

Anyone can get them as far as I understand.

The list is a short one but it has helped us out in a jam more than a few times.

We specifically ask the doctors to prescribe from Walmart's list. ;)

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma "We specifically ask the doctors to prescribe from Walmart's list. ;) "

Brilliant! I'll make the extra trip to Walmart's pharmacy in the future, and make the extra effort to ask my doctor to do that. In the meantime, I will see if I can switch my Workman Comp meds to Walmart. Sometimes the switch is a hassle, but I do that to get the free 25$ gift certificate or whatever from the drugstore (teehee). But switching to Walmart would pay in the long run for meds not covered by my WC!

[Boomer1949]

It's not only walmart that offers lower cost meds. Here in NY, walgreens does as well. I'm not sure but I believe even CVS has a list of generic drugs you can get for as little as $4.

[Yankhadenough]

Boomer1949 CVS?! That's where my WC meds are, so I will kick myself if I missed out on discounts just because I didn't ask the right questions.

[Yankhadenough]

Thanks for showing that Canada pays for their patients in America who have exceptional cases . I already knew I loved the idea of Singlepayer Universal Healthcare, and I appreciate you enlightening us even more with all the lesser known advantages!

[Boomer1949]

Your welcome. Although Washington doesn't have the guts to go for the full single payer program, at least they are standing up to a 'Public Option" and that will help those of us who can't afford or our employers don't offer any insurance.

[Yankhadenough]

Boomer1949 What do you think would have to change in DC, or what would we have to do, in order to get the full singlepayer program that we deserve?

[Boomer1949]

Changing DC is not what needs to be changed. What needs to be changed is the attitudes of the majority of Americans. Apathy and discouragement is running ramped today and the under current to that is anger.

The reporting says 85% of America supports a single payer program but we're ignored in Washington.

[Boomer1949]

The top percentile of the wealth elect our representatives and President. And the voting in this country is a sham. I'm not one to say that a out and out revolt is necessary but I'm afraid it might come to that, if someone doesn't pay attention to what all the emails, letters and phone calls are telling them.

[Yankhadenough]

Boomer1949 you sound exactly like what my Dad says, he is from Long Island.

[FatLibertarian]

The reason health care is so expensive is because of insurance. Oh and BTW, I don't have insurance either. But when I get sick, I go and pay. I find a way to pay. As a libertarian I think government needs to stay out of medicine altogether. But people today want government to provide for everything. But those same people will be crying when they soon become too big and in your face. I'll be TOO FAT to be in this government crack-whore medical plan anyway. LOL

[Boomer1949]

I agree the insurance companies are the problem and as long as they are in the game, I also pay as I need, or find alternative treatments I can afford. But as you get older, as I am, I think about if things don't change and the insurance companies taken out of the system, just one major medical bill will take everything I have worked for all my life and turn it over to the crooks who run the show now. Wall St.

[spring1978ukma]

ONE of the reasons the health care is so expensive is the insurance's. The other reason is because big pharma companies and hospital supply companies charge hospitals an arm and a leg because they can. If there is an NHS in the US NO ONE should be considered "too fat" or too unhealthy to get it either.

[pondman27]

It is too long ago that your families well being comes before the shareholder dividend and bank interests.

This system kills more people than sol-die-rs lost in the theatre of war.

When health services were freindly societies the best available medicaments were given. We think we've come so far. But today, they inject you at birth, provide you with toxic water, feed corrupted foods & thus provide you with a life long legacy of drug dependence & disease. The famous men in white coats!

[Yankhadenough]

FatLibertarian unfortunately, finding a way to pay is not an option for a lot of Americans, as they end up bankrupt and/or foreclosing with mountains of medical bills. Sadly a family in a rich neighborhood in my area was just victimized by a murder/suicide by the husband/father due to two mortgages on house and overextended credit cards, and I don't think I heard news say that was even medical bills! Bad things happen to good people, and desperate people do bad things.

[spring1978ukma]

Yank, hospitals won't let people pay 5 dollars a month now a days, they force you into taking out personal loans to pay their bills. I worked for a collection agency over the summers when I was in college. These collection agencies and hospitals are pathetic. We couldn't tell people that there was indigent care even if they were eligible and we knew it. Instead we were told to push the personal loans. If they couldn't get personal loans they had to pay within 6 months or be sued.

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma that is a heartbreaking situation that they put both the patients and employees of the debt collections in. Your youthful story sounds like the young lady on Michael Moore's "Sicko" movie, the one who was not allowed to tell the couple on the phone that they did not qualify for the company's insurance , when they thought they did (I think that is the scene as I remember it)

[tyvon2000]

yeah, it's nice to think how a situation improves things for yourself without thinking more into how it affects someone else. That's the whole problem with the stimulus... boomers want thier retirement to be great, so screw my generation. We pay less than 1% of income on average per year for healthcare - screw my retirement so long as your social security holds up. Nothing against you personally, but it's a growing mentality from a growing number of the boomers.

[Boomer1949]

I'm sorry you feel this way but it's not like you wouldn't benefit today and in the future with a single payer program. But rest easy, this plan is not going to be passed now or in the future. Big Business has there hooks in our gov deep and in our pockets as deep. Insurance co will continue as they have always done and even through you pay 1%, lets hope they allow you to use it if you need it.

[tyvon2000]

My other thoughts are that I also don't believe it will cost 1%. I believe the estimates don't (and can't) take into account people who would have gone to the doctor for something non-critical if it were free. Also, whenever the gov't is paying for something, the price of that good or service is increased. All-in-all, it's a nice idea, but it won't work bc the 1% can't be right, people will flood the system bc it's a free service (perhaps gov't should pay 33-50% instead), and long wait times.

[Boomer1949]

You just stated that we are paying 1% on health care now and that includes all the profit of Wall st and ex pays!! And I don't believe anyone would be running to the doctor more because it's free. You still need to take time off work and that cost money. Plus preventitive care is half the battle. Look at my arm, if there were something seriously wrong, having it checked now, rather than later when it's worse would save money.

[aspieresearchmom]

Boomer1949 I'm surprised how many people still think for-profit health insurance is better than Singlepayer Health Insurance. Big Insurance really has them conned into thinking that if they disappear there will be government doctors replacing all their private practice doctors. Why do these people think that many doctors are for Singlepayer? And some doctors are even dropping out of AMA over it over this issue !

[Boomer1949]

Big Insurance is behind this "reform", don't let them fool you into thinking anything else. It's a total hand out to the big insurance co, without some kind of competition from another source, they get the whole pie. The bills are calling for every individual be insured...INSURED. What part of TOO EXPENSIVE don't these idiots get?

[Yankhadenough]

tyvon2000 I have some of the best healthcare coverage around, and it costs me 180$ a month for family premium, and that's considered cheap! There is no way that is only 1% of my monthly wage !!!

[spring1978ukma]

Yank, my husband pays 83 bucks a week for a family plan so yeah, yours is cheap. We also have a high deductible, co-pays and then we also have to pay 20% of what is left over WHEN they decide they are going to pay their supposed 80%. For prescriptions we pay anywhere from 15-45 dollars.

His figures out to be around 6.85% of his wages.

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma I know what you mean by the "extras" we all pay, I also have those co-pays, deductibles and that 20% left over. What is up with that "deal"! ! If we pay insurance premium , why are we paying that much out of pocket? I have same "deal" as you on meds too, but my regular meds for my herniated disc are on Workman Comp, so those are free. That's why Boomer here should file for WC. But if I get sick, I have to fall back to my med plan co-pays.

[spring1978ukma]

My husband's factory is in contract negotiations and have been for almost a year now. He brought home the new insurance scheme and I use scheme in a literal sense where we put money in the bank to cover the extra that we will be paying for the high deductibles. We have to pay 2000 PER PERSON for a deductible AND pay 83 dollars a week and 30 dollar co-pays,

doesn't sound like a "deal" does it?

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma lol, I almost thought you were a Brit, they use the word "scheme" just for our word "plan", so I am glad you clarified that you really mean scheme when you say scheme (lol).

[spring1978ukma]

My husband is a Brit from London. My mom in law uses the word scheme for their NHS and it took me a long time to figure out she didn't mean it in a negative way. lol

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma lol, that explains it, and also your admiration of Universal Healthcare ;^)

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978

My monthly premium by itself is 8.3% of my wage (I work for govt , thus cheaper monthly premium vs lower pay rate). Can you imagine how much cheaper everything would be, let alone our out-of-pocket expenses, if we CUT PROFIT OUT of health insurance with Singlepayer? Shoot, we could even pay laid off health insurance workers more for a salary than they get now if they are offered jobs in Singlepayer Health Insurance Dept !!!

[spring1978ukma]

Yank, YES, I do! lol Our insurance is eating us alive. The sad fact: the man that owns my husbands factory is also on the board of the insurance company and even though the union men have found cheaper insurance with better benefits, the owner will not let them switch.

Another thing that is really upsetting is that my husband has been on 3 days a week for 6 months now, that 83 dollars is what he pays regardless of how many hours he gets.

[Yankhadenough]

spring1978ukma Is he allowed to moonlight at other jobs on those two "furlough" days ? They are considering furlough days at my job, and I did not even think about the part that the health insurance premium remains the same regardless! Is your husband's labor union on top of that?

[spring1978ukma]

I don't think that they have said whether he can moonlight or not. I presume they can but who knows. They change the rules so much we can't keep up.

Yeah, it's a labor union. It doesn't seem to help too much though-UAW.

[tyvon2000]

I meant if you didn't have coverage, then how much would you spend? I would spend less than 1% personally, but the system proposed would force me to pay more (if this passes, at least there should be a tax return for $ not used). There are over 13,000 pages of medical regulations from the federal gov't. If we move deeper into this system, that will only get worse, and resulting prices will only get higher. Many people will abuse the system for pain killers, medical marijuana, etc.

[tyvon2000]

I don't believe after all is said and done that it will cost 1%. If someone needs a place to stay and doesn't want to pay for it, they could just go to the emergency room for 'chest pains'. The staff will keep them overnight in a bed for observations.

Also, in Canada, you have to get APPROVED for the visit to the states. They won't pay if it's not an APPROVED procedure in an APPROVED facility. If you go without approval, they won't pay and won't pay for your subsequent related needs.

[Yankhadenough]

tyvon2000 The homeless don't do that now? Good for them if they do!

And Boomer clearly explained that Canada will pay for approved visits to the states at approved facilities, which is more than many Americans get in America now!

[Yankhadenough]

tyvon2000 Your hypothetical "abuses" of a Singlepayer system pale in comparison to the reality of the current system that is abusing US, all of us!

[justjacqueline2004]

I am medically qualified.If I can help please get in contact.

[Boomer1949]

thanks but I'm working on a good workman's comp case..ha ha. Just kidding. It's just a case of using muscles that haven't been used like this in a very long time. Jobs are starting to come back here in up state, so if I find I just can't do this, I'll have to move on.

[kevinpaulharper]

how does it feel to have your eyes open.

[bluzy25]

yes, not true. People also come to america if they can afford it. Otherwise, people are taken care of very well. There is some delays if you are not emergency.

[cwmillerrn]

The government really knows how to screw things up when they take over. Look at Amtrak. Supposedly when that got taken over during the Nixon years it was going to be turned back over to the private sector after 3 years. Now its still losing money every year all these years later. Ask a veteran how great govt run healthcare is...you'll get an earful. Bureaucracy sucks. Ask the elderly how they like medicare/medicade. Govt screws stuff up all the time. GM, AIG. It's all over but the crying.

[Boomer1949]

As for Medicare and the vets administration. I do talk to people who have Medicare and are vets and not one of them want to give up that benefit, in spite of their complaints. I don't know anything about the Amtrak situation, having only been on one train in my life but if the private sector has had only after 3 years under the gov, tell me again who screwed it up.

[cwmillerrn]

Sure The VA and Medicare are better than nothing, but "Better than nothing" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. Also don't forget about the active duty servicemembers and their brand of govt healthcare. Talk about a disaster. I could tell you some really bad stories from my time in.

Regarding Amtrak...Nixon said he would give it back after 3 years of govt control, it's still in govt hands and still losing money. Same will happen with GM, AIG, govt healthcare and all the rest.

[Boomer1949]

Again, I don't know what the deal is with Amtrak. And I think you believe that the gov is going to be "running" health care, when in fact they will be paying health care. Big difference. Insurance co. run our health care and rarely pay for it, in spite of huge premiums.

[ManFaded]

give me control of the money and i care not who writes the laws

[cwmillerrn]

Boomer, when I pay for a steak dinner I expect to tell the waiter how I want it cooked and what sides I'll have with it. You make too fine a distinction between running healthcare and paying for it. The govt just took an 80% stake in AIG, you think they are going to let the 20% remaining shareholders decide how it is run. No way. Ron Paul doesn't buy it either. He knows that the govt will intervene in decisions that should be between the MD and patient. Run away from big govt.

[Boomer1949]

Everyone talks like there isn't gov in our lives now..hells bells people, the gov is right there at from birth to death. We are tagged and registered the day we're born and again when we die. In between we have gov telling us we have to have this, or can't have that. What the hells the difference between BIG CORP or BIG GOV? If not a single payer, then BIG CORP calls the shots and we see how well they have done so far.

[cwmillerrn]

With facism you get the worst of both big government and big corp, so you don't have to choose, Boomer. I'd rather have neither than both. Just because the govt takes over healthcare doesn't mean you can just say good bye to big corp. Is there anything bigger than big pharma? The govt will still need drugs and equiptment with or without the bloated insurance companies you detest. Two adages that come to mind are 'you get what you pay for' and 'what do you expect for free?'

[Boomer1949]

When a co like big pharm has a bunch of customers and one doesn't like the price, they move on to the next one. But if there is one customer, where are they going to go, they would be forced to deal or loose the business to a smaller outfit and be blown out of the water.

[cwmillerrn]

Sounds like you love govt monopolies. You would have loved Argentina in the 1990's right before their economic collapse and hyperinflation. Monopolizatoin Leads to really poor service.  Question is where is the disgruntled healthcare consumer to go. To answer your question...big pharma will go someplace where there's a free economy and where they can make a profit. Say good bye again to American progress and development.

[Boomer1949]

Oh Please! Give me a break. What big company ever turned away from a gov contract? And what gov contractor is failing? Lockheed, KBR, Boeing? They manage to do rather well and as far as I can tell, they make a profit, at least their stock continues to climb and the CEO's do rather well. I guess if you want a true comparison for health care, look at the Vets care. That' is the only system that is gov run.

[cwmillerrn]

The question you should be asking is: What government will pass up the lowest bidder? You get what you pay for. So again, quality and innovation will suffer. Developing new drugs will be deincentivized. Speaking of KBR...wanna look at quality? Maybe you don't recall all the American soldiers in Iraq that were electrocuted from faulty wiring in showers. That was on the news and C-Span. What about the $300 toilet seats supplied to the government? Bureaucracy at work.

[Boomer1949]

I doubt that Lockheed or Boeing suffer from innovation and they are huge gov contractors. As for the KBR showers deal, it's not that they didn't get paid well for the job, it's that they hired people who didn't know what they were doing, locals, to save money and make a bigger profit for their share holders. Wall St at work again.

They have changed the way gov contracts are done now btw. Over runs have to be rebid.

[spring1978ukma]

Do you think that UK and Canada has bad medicine compared to the USA?  I dont know about Canada but I can tell you that the UK doesn't have sub standard medicine. They also do not have a ton of "self help" medicines on every shelf either like 15 different types of headache medicines and 20 different types of atheletes foot cream. They also get their "over the counter" meds at the same price as their prescription if the doctor prescribes which is 8 pounds.