David Starkey on Jane Seymour -- 2/2

[QueenAnneBoleyn1536]

No offence against Jane.BUT has anyone thought that she got into Henry's life when Anne was pregnant..? what if the rumor that Anne found her on Henry's lap is true...? I am trying to say that the main difference is that Henry's marriage to QKOA had already ended before Anne Boleyn..she could not bear any children and Henry was tired of her..also I accept the fact that he loved COA but the first time he fell in love was with Anne.Don't forget Henry had to marry QKOA!

[QueenAnneBoleyn1536]

@QueenAnneBoleyn1536 yet I do not blame Jane or Anne..Anne I think fell in love with the king after a short time...anD for everyone who calls her a whore I ask what would you do in her shoes..?She had her evil father and brother..but she did a 'great job' in keeping her honor,pride and make an honorable marriage to Henry after many years..!

[DivestresCountess]

Henry was a bastard!

[Floberovpapagaj]

4 people are traitors!

[shyfly825]

Jane never had a coronation so she wasn't really queen...Anne and Katherine of Aragon were the only two to have a coronation. Now who's child is the bastard? Jane's weak son who would die early.

[Winterfairy777]

@shyfly825 Henry was married to all of his wifes so there was not one bastard.

[Terese89li]

No one can blam Anne ore Jane, because the only obey ther guardian relatives, who whats more power. The have no choice, the were "only" woman.

[andysixxforeverily]

i believe that anne did what she did because she was a strong beautiful woman she stood up to it all and Elizabeth was the result of that think about how things would be different without those 2 woman

[andysixxforeverily]

i would never of had a child in those days nothing to numb the pain f that

[happybkwrm]

Jane wasn't smart, she was lucky - she had a son before she pushed Henry too far trying to make England Catholic. Henry wasn't going to give up his role as head of the Church of England. For that matter, I wonder how long she would have lasted anyway if she continued trying to "reform" Henry.

[sunteacup]

@happybkwrm you have a very good point. Jane asking Henry to turn to Catholic is like asking him to denounce him being king, he was a pig in every sense of the word. But you are right, I do think she would have met the same fate as the other queens once Henry found another challenging lover to sweep him off his feet.

[Winterfairy777]

@happybkwrm not long

[MelinaPendulum]

Jane was a kind woman and even though she replaced Anne, she was much less hostel than AB was. I also don't get why Jane had to have been pretending to be sweet...maybe she just was. Is that really so hard to believe?

[kikoizme]

You guys are really starting to piss me off with this anti Anne stuff. She was a flirt so what... at least she showed it unlike Jane who pretended to be sweet and innocent.

[12from12]

it wasn't the 21st century, you can't judge it by today's standards

[ekateri28]

@trinapinks Anne Boleyn was not a homewrecking schemer, she was an opportunist. There was a slight opening for Queen since KofA failed to produce a living son and heir for the kingdom. Plus Henry was besotted and bewitched by Anne so Anne was smart enough and ambitious enough to take advantage of it. If it weren't for Anne, there would have been no Elizabeth I, and without Elizabeth I England would have remained a pygmy and shithole.

[gpvgpvgpv]

i just disliked her because it seemed to me that she munipilated the king a lot.

[disamjisa]

Except for Anne of Cleves and Catherine Howard, I think all of Henry's wives had a big influence on him.

[Zander45]

@disamjisa

[eviltree99]

@kikoizme Pretended?She was a good woman-more calculating than history leads us to believe I think but she cared about England and wanted to do good.Anne was good to but Jane showed more compassion as queen.

[soccergirl97979]

how ironic that Henry's heart was broken by the one that escaped him 1st

[COYDOGBLUE]

I cannot help but find it very amusing that people are still debating the very things that were the hot issues during this time period. I can only imagine what any of the Queens, or Henry, would say if they knew we are STILL hotly debating all of this

[Ellisgirl83]

If Anne was a whore than so was Jane!!!!!

[lillylemondrops]

Whilst i don't think either woman was a whore, i find it more likely that Anne slept around than Jane. Jane was known for her modesty and good reputation whilst Anne had a boyfriend in the past and served at the French court which didn't have an amazing reputation of keeping women's virtue intact.

However, i stand by my first judgement that neither of these women were whores. Katherine Howard on the other hand...

[Ellisgirl83]

What i meant was some people refer to Anne as a home-wrecking whore and i was just pointing out that if that's the case then Jane was no better as Anne was displaced for Jane,yes the good old licentious french court bet it was more fun than the English court ,wink wink.

[GoddessofHyrule]

exactly! I love Anne- at least she was upfront about what she was doing!

[mazarini]

she was a whore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DuttyGyal718]

I disagree. I bet 5 bux that the king had slept around more than any of his wives put together!

HA!

:-D

[ekateri28]

@lillylemondrops wouldn't Henry have known that about Anne before he married her? or was he simply a fool?

[Ellisgirl83]

I love the fact that Edward turned out to be such a hardcore protestant .

[RobertNicholls]

Catherine of Aragon FTW

[SashaSpy91]

Word! She was the true Queen. Anne was a whore. A smart, clever whore, but a homewrecking heretic nonetheless.

[RobertNicholls]

I have a soft spot for Anne of Cleves.

[ilovepurplebanana]

Ugh, leave Anne alone!

She was the best Queen consort in English history!

[AnaliaHyrule]

I think Eleanor of Aquitiane beats her!

[evaperonfan]

I love ANne Boleyn, don't get me wrong, but I think Eleanor of Aquitiane beats her as the best queen consort in English history.

[disamjisa]

Agreed

[Mia646]

Eleanor was locked in jail for 16 year for planning with her son to overthrow her second husband. How does this make her better?

[evaperonfan]

well, she gave England a huge boost out of the Dark Ages. I think that's better than anything Anne did.

[Mia646]

The Dark ages happened in the 13th century - when Eleanor was just bowing out. So how did she make England better for something that didn't happen until 26 years after her death?

[evaperonfan]

All of Henry's wives were true queens. And why do you hate Protestants?

[slickwillywize]

jane was an over eager catholic stooge!!

[EvilAngelEyes]

better than a protestant homewrecking whore like Anne Hoylen.

[AnaliaHyrule]

what is your problem with protestants? Did Martin Luther's ghost kill your puppy or something?

[evaperonfan]

why do you hate Protestants?

[severyn1982]

jane seems like the true woman to me.i dont think she was at fault for anne at all,or for anything bad.she helped restore mary and elizabeth together,she truly had no qualms about including past wives' children in the family,thats true character

[sexisuperman08]

i totally agree but Jane was involved in Anne's downfall. That is why I believed that her son, Edward VI, died at a young age and that it was Anne's daughter, Elizabeth I, that was the most greatest and significant Queen to rule over England

[EvilAngelEyes]

sexisuperman08, Anne deserved it, she screwed over Catherine of Aragon/Mary I, which is why she deserved her fate. She was a homewrecking prostitute.

[littomeh1234]

I Think Anne Was A Much Better Queen Than Jane . Atleast Anne Wasn't Scared Of Saying No Too The King . No Affence To Jane But I Would Stick With Anne Rather Tan Jane . I Just Love Watching The Tudors Elizabeth The Golden Age And Anne Of The Thousand Days lol

[Karenjade]

Umm, no. Jane wasn't afraid to speak her mind either. She too refused Henry initially and was wise enough to keep her head withuot pushing Henry to far. She was a kind stepmother to Mary, sent money for clothes for Elizabeth, and asked for the lives of the rebels in The Pilgrimage Of Grace. If you're going to hate Jane for Annes fate, you may as well hate Anne for what happened to Catherine.

[Viorica8957]

I like both of them, personally. They were radically different people, but they can both be appreciated on their own merits.

[Stargazer19]

Hear, Hear!

BOTH Queens did have their own strengths.

[EvilAngelEyes]

littomeh1234, If you're going to hate Jane for Annes fate, you may as well hate Anne for what happened to Catherine. Boylen was a whore and her head had to roll for it. That's the fate of a homewrecker.

[Ellisgirl83]

If Anne Boleyn was a" whore and a homewrecker" so is Jane and she died a painful death is that also a case of "that's the fate of a homewrecker" , it's kind of funny that Jane's son turned out to be a radical protestant .

[AnaliaHyrule]

you are so full of hate-

[DuttyGyal718]

I still sez, dont blame the woman, and dammit Henry This is your fault!!!

:-P

[LadyAshe4567]

After watching this and looking up Jane, I have a new respect for her. I used to not like her at all, thinking it wasn't fair for her to take Henry away from Anne, but I really love her now. She was a strong wonderful woman and a good queen. Yay for Jane Semour! :)

[KittyKat0422]

Neither of them were evil.

They were two very intelligent and ambitious women. Anne was just more blunt and much less subtle. Jane did the same thing that Anne did, but she learned from Anne's mistakes and, in the words of Princess Elizabeth's nurse she did the two things Anne wasn't smart enough to do. She gave Henry a son before he began to doubt her and died before he got tired of her. very sad, but true.

[Gvanillavodka]

so what exactly did Jane seymour get after she gave birth to henrys son? she died from what?

[angrypufferfish]

Puerperal fever was how she died. It was a common way for women to die after childbirth back then.

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

what exactly is that?

[angrypufferfish]

An infection pretty much. You run the risk of catching it after giving birth because your torn tissues can become infected. It's rare in the modern world but during the Tudor era it was common.

[kehoerydah]

i swear that family is cursed

[ASEA12]

ok taking the conversation away from henry's wives can i just ask why starkey didnt mention henry had a son, maybe not lawful but recognised and raised as a prince, henry fitzroy.

[angrypufferfish]

I think he does mention Fitzroy, in the documentry for Catherine Of Aragon.

[glodsbride86]

what makes me laugh is the fact that henry blamed his wives for producing girls or for having a miscarrige.when you think of the pressure that all his wives where constantly under im not surprised they miscarried.being watched by a thousand eyes every day and night and not having a private life i think they all needed medals for not cracking under the pressure.henry was a crap king and did fuck all.

[MinakoTomoe]

yes jane fans forget that she almost lost her head along with mary's supporters, when she tired very hard to get the catholic faith made the only faith and have mary tudor made as heiress, had mary not had such admiration for jane seymour she would not have come forth and said she was indeed a bastard, all to save janes head. Jane then chose to be obedient as was the sagest choice

Then there was the great rebellion, seeing heretics burnt and monastires destroyed, Catholic Vs protestant EXCITING

[lisalisa248621]

imagine having a child at that time.must

have been very hard.i dont know how they

did it.

[CaitlinSk]

@lisalisa248621 really? really?

[huntresskrystle]

I am fascinated by Jane Seymour. She and Katharine of Aragon are my favorite wives of King Henry VIII :) Thanks for these fantastic uploads, littlemisssunnydale!

[queenme222]

anne boleyn is the best know of his wives

[cdrwin]

I thought David Starkey knew his stuff? I just watched his ELIZABETH where he said Mary died? And in this he stated in part one that 10 days after Abbe Boleyn died he married Jane, when it was in fact 16 days after? Who do I beleive?

[Princesspeach2007]

They could have been married before that, we just don't know. Like with today, details get mixed up so many things are guesswork.

[sakiguzman]

I respect how people are into Anne Boleyn, but when others start making things up so they can feel better anout AB's execution, it's just not right. ALL the wives were victims of Henry somehow.

[littlemisssunnydale]

I agree that to dislike someone purely because they were an opponent (or people perceive them to be) an opponent of someone you admire is very unfair. There are some historians who take this attitude and their work suffers greatly for it (namely Alison Weir). However I have noticed, via messages to myself and on the videos that in general Anne Boleyn tends to be the wife attacked the most which I was surprised about. One person (who shall remain nameless) sent me the nastiest messages imaginable

[sakiguzman]

I feel sorry for Anne actually, as I feel sorry for Jane and all the other wives who've had to live with Henry. As to which wife is attacked most- well, it depends on what place you go to. There are several popular Tudors sites where majority are Anne Boleyn fans and a fair number have gotten real harsh with Jane simply because she exists and didn't get beheaded.

[littlemisssunnydale]

I agree that it depends on which website you go on, but just looking at my own videos in general, I tend to receive more critical comments on Anne Boleyn than any other wife (I have had, for example, no one send me messages defaming any other individual but Anne).

[AmaterasuTao]

Well people dislike her because of what she did to Katherine of Arragon the True Queen

[Kitty273]

I agree. I have been to sites that purport to be about The Tudors and really are Anne Boleyn/Henry Vii shippers/fans. When you state that you care neither for Anne or the H/A ship,you are attacked!

[sakiguzman]

Yes, I figured that Elizabeth's presence had more to do with Henry. I'm just amazed at the things people say about Jane...that she was jealous of Elizabeth as a young child, that she was insecure because the girl was brilliant, etc. Where are they getting this? Jane was only queen for 2 years before she went, and there was no opportunity* for her to show what she thought of Elizabeth.

[leggomyeggo05]

I feel bad for Catherine Hoawrd mostly because her so called 'treasonious' doings were before she even knew Henry. Henry should have got to know her a little better and not study her a year into the marriage.She was a young girl and didnt know any better and also her childhood home was not a great influence either.

[shuttleBabe]

I don't think Anne is smart at all (what did all her witty and feisty leave her?)

Jane Seymour reminds me of the extraordinary Empress Zhangsun ("the civil, virtuous, serene, and holy empress"). She is thought by almost every Chinese as perfect example of an ideal empress, as she resolved many matters with wisdom, bravery and kind heart. She married an ambitious man, and did all she could to guide his heart with love and righteousness, so that he will rule with honour and just, not tyranny.

[toothbrush55]

Anne was intelligent, but short sighted. She didn't stop to think about when she actually became queen, what would happen then.

I don't think she realized that her prized qualities of being witty, feisty, and intelligent which is what had kept her going before becoming Queen, wouldn't matter one bit anymore once she was Queen.

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

are you from China?

[REREWHO]

thank you sooo much for posting in these clips :)

[federerserena]

I feel most sorry for Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard. Anne was framed for being an intelligent sharp-tongued woman who was just sticking up for herself when her unfair husband cheated on her with sluts of the Court. And then she was executed for apparent sex with other men! What a hypocrite Henry was. And poor Catherine - she was guilty, but she was just a 17-year old child. She didnt know any better. It was his fault! R.I.P.

[Kitty273]

Anne Boleyn helped bring about the ultimate humiliation of Queen Katherine and lost no sleep over it. Jane Seymour was her karma,though she didn't deserve to be beheaded on ridiculous charges. Catherine had all the sense of a goose and should've known better.she just didn't have any sense! You and I would've been QUITE cautious with a man who humiliated one wife and beheaded another!

[VoiceOfAShadow]

Jane Seymour was a kind woman, and the way she played advocate for Mary was a very sweet thing to do. To marry such a terrifying man was brave of her, and to stick to her faith was brave as well.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

but how did she treat elizabeth

[VoiceOfAShadow]

How wouuld you treat the daughter of a woman who had just been beheaded at the hands of your new husband? She was probably terrefied that she herself would be killed. It's a different matter to defend the daughter of a woman who was a trusted queen and confidante of Henry for years.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

I'd treat her like she was one of my own

[VoiceOfAShadow]

Well, then, good for you. You're far braver than Jane was. Or I am, actually.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

Thanks I'll take that as a compliment, this is why i respect anne for because she was brave enought to challenge him, i cant respect henry either for abandoning mary or elozabeth either they were young and its just wrong

[VoiceOfAShadow]

At least they both proved themselves in the end. :) Both Mary and Elizabeth, Elizabeth perhaps more so, became famous and beloved queens. I love Anne as well. She was a fiery woman.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

yup she knew how to stand up for herself in a society that was patriachal which i have tons of respect for

[VoiceOfAShadow]

To be a strong woman in a time where men ruled and women curtsied was a braver act that is carried on by the women of today.

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

If I remember well, Jane didn't treat Elizabeth kindly at all.

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

really? well she was a bitch then wasnt she

where did you learn that if you dont mind me asking?

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

It's just in a lot of novels and some nonfiction books I've read- I don't remember the source off the top of my head. Jane was avidly anti Anne and that also meant ignoring her daughter. Elizabeth never came to court during Jane's reign if I remember correctly

[XxCrazygal2007xX]

well like i say, she must have been a total cow ignoring a young child like that, so what if she was anti-anne afterall elizabeth couldnt help who her mother was, in fact i feel sorry for her for having henry viii as a dad n i feel sorry for edward having those two as parents

i cant get my head around that, she didn't treat her well that's just horrible!

[sakiguzman]

I really think it's too early to start calling Jane names when no evidence exists that she treated Elizabeth badly. You're already imagining all sorts of scenarios when nothing pretty much exists. Jane was only married to Henry for 2 years, and Elizabeth was practically a toddler. It was protocol to keep toddlers away from court, heck, even Edward was raised in a separate home! So how can people jump to conclusions about Jane for this?

[Kitty273]

They like Anne Boleyn and assume that Jane Seymour did her wrong and by extension,Elizabeth.Jane Seymour was Anne Boleyn's karma,what she dealt out to Queen K came back to haunt her.I agree with you,there is NO documented evidence of her ever mistreating Elizabeth.

[sakiguzman]

Elizabeth was only 3 or 4 at that time and children were for the most part, kept away from court until older. There is no evidence that says Jane treated Elizabeth unkindly. In fact, Elizabeth was present at her brother's christening.

I don't know where you're getting this from.

[littlemisssunnydale]

Jane was not involved in Elizabeth's upbringing so we have no evidence that she was nasty to her, nor do we have evidence that she cared for her. Elizabeth's appearance at the christening was Henry's doing as Elizabeth was his daughter, who was one of many notable persons present to celebrate the birth of the new male heir. In contrast Jane showed an active interest in Henry's elder daughter, Mary. But Elizabeth remained out of the way at this point due to her age and due to her maternity.

[Kitty273]

Wht would a three year old child be at court?If I'm not mistaken,royal kids had their own household.

Again,Anne Boleyn's cruelty to Princess Mary has been documented and Anne NEVER allowed Princess Mary to come to court. She offered her a place at court if she was willing to accept her as Queen,effectively declaring herself a bastard and her mother an adulterer.

[littlemisssunnydale]

What do you mean by cruelty? Aside from harsh words, Anne did nothing to Mary, something Mary's biographers like David Loades and Linda Porter, note. It was all talk and no action from Anne and there is no actual evidence that Mary was physically harmed. Henry VIII was the real culprit as he was the one to reduce his daughter's household and would hassle her after Anne died. He was the one to make her renounce her mother, not Anne.

[sakiguzman]

Some won't even watch the series anymore simply because their precious Henry/Anne 'romance' got shot down. Which is pathetic, considering how interesting, how rich and how intriguing Tudor history is- and they won't even see the rest of the story because of one* relationship - which Henry* couldn't wait to get rid off.

[littlemisssunnydale]

Which series? 'The Tudors'? Speaking as someone who dislikes the series, its flaws lies not only in the poor portrayal of certain figures, but in acting, script, general odd historical inaccuracies etc

[sakiguzman]

Yes, I am referring to the Tudors. And yes, I agree with you that it is extremely flawed...but what is particular about the anti-Jane Henry/Anne shippers is that they seem to take issue with the loss of that relationship than anything else.

As for the series...I do enjoy it as one would a soap opera* For actual facts on Tudor history I would not recommend it. But it makes good entertainment and IMHO, there's more to it than just Henry or Anne...

[Kitty273]

Yes,King Henry was responsible for Princess Mary's suffering.

It doesn't matter if it was just words from Anne and no action. If someone is threatening to harm you,it makes for suffering,whether they carry out the threat or not,don't you think? Even if there was no possibilty of it happening,would'nt you be in a perpetual state of fear and worry?

Psychological suffering can be just as bad as physical.

[ChargersLuver19]

I recall learning that Anne referred to Mary as 'That cursed bastard' and spoke of having her poisened.

I however do not remember Jane having any interaction witht the little Elizabeth.

[littlemisssunnydale]

Anne spoke out against Mary (like Mary spoke out against her). But Anne did not cause Mary's mistreatment; that was the actions of Henry VIII. In fact Mary was treated even worse following Anne's death when Henry forced her to renounce her faith and her mother's right as queen. Henry was a stubborn man and viewed his daughter as being unnatural in her defiance towards him. When someone opposed him, whether they be friend or family, Henry would subject them to humiliating, harsh treatment.

[lisalisa248621]

yes i agree with that.

[sakiguzman]

You're right about Anne's comments towards Mary. I don't think Anne tried to have Mary kiled, but there is reason to believe that they hated/feared one another. I find it ironic that Jane haters keep making things up (Jane was cruel to Elizabeth LOLZ!) when there is no evidence of this whatsoever.

[angrypufferfish]

Jane overlooked Elizabeth possibly. But you are right sakiguzman, there is no solid proof she was ever cruel to Elizabeth. I loathe the way Anne fans always make Jane out to be a witch. -_-

[laurenlfc48]

Don't make her out to be a witch, just Jane Seymour was seen as an angel when really she was just as bad, so many people call Anne a witch and if she was then so was Jane. I do respect Jane for giving her own life for her child but she is just as bad as Anne.

[angrypufferfish]

I never made Anne out to be a witch. I was saying that I don't like Anne Boleyn fans who make Jane out to be some vicious evil cow. The woman was not perfect; a pawn if anything else. But she did not do anything Anne hadn't already done

[laurenlfc48]

I know that what i mean when you said anne boyeln fans make out Jane Seymour to be a witch well we couldn't really do that because Jane an Anne and more similar than you can imagin, if we called Jane a witch then we would have to call Anne one too.

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

Jane and Anne's personalities were polar opposites.

[laurenlfc48]

Yes but what thgey went through in their lives are very similar.

[DeadLkeMe]

not really neither of them were witches

when the king or some ppl called wither of them a witch they werent saying they did witchcraft and fly on brooms. they were hores mainly used by their families and used seduction on henry who is enjoys having mistresses and many pretty women. so no if u call jane a witch that doesnt mean anne is one too and vice versa.

king henry is actually to blame for nearly everything frm his wives miscarriages(his sperm messed it up pretty much) to being paranoid

[laurenlfc48]

Please I do know these things, i do know that none of Henry's wifes were witches, although my point was in response to anothers who said that all Anne Boleyn fans make Jane to be horrible. My simple reply, as an Anne fan myself, was that we could not say this as they were to simple. Using the subjecy of witches was just an example as I know Anne was, wrongly, accused of being one.

[DuttyGyal718]

Hell I love all the tudor women. from Catherine of aragon to Catherine Parr, I loves em all. As it was not their fault. It was Henry, so I says dammit Hnery!!!

:-D

God save all the queens from him

[AndromedaMariaCarmen]

I thought Jane was cruel to Elizabeth?

[Kitty273]

There is no evidence that Jane treated Elizabeth badly. Every account I've read states she treated Mary AND Elizabeth well. She treated Princess Mary FAR better than Anne Boleyn did and there is documented evidence of Anne's threats,Eustace Chapuys and others wrote about it.If Jane had mistreated Elizabeth,we would surely know of it. As Sakiguzman said,if Jane hated Elizabeth,she surely wouldn't have allowed her to attend Edward's christening.

[xxxxhighy]

so did she , i think she died while giving birth to him

[borders1]

Anne may not have had a son but she had Elizabeth 1, True jane had a son but sadly he died.

[LadyLisa513]

Oops 'i was on under my son's name, so ththis comment was from me.

[Ayealea]

Thank you so much for taking the time to put this up!!!! I love history! Henry is another example of why so many women are gay! LOL J/k But he was an ass...

[TudorRose85]

Henry VIII was a selfish bastard. He destroyed so many of England's historical teasures. So many Beautiful Abbies redused to Ruins. May he burn in hell!

[TudorRose85]

Who keeps giving me negitive points?

[Kellimorgan]

Henry VIII was a borderline megalomaniac.

[slytherinpuddle]

Thanks you again for these! I was waiting for the second part on Jane!

[justlooking213]

This was such a waste He robbed England of so much All the knowledge in the Monastic Libraries GONE!