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Yahweh of Bible, Gods Word, showing truth here regarding Evolution and its Big Bang and apes.. Wisdom of this World is foolishness for God and Jesus Christ, Gods Son of Bible, Gods Word. True that the truth is from God of Bible and Jesus Christ Gods son of Yahweh of Bible, behind all the evil Big Bang and its Evolution apes lies from Satan.
I MUST MAKE A STAND YAHWEH, GOD OF BIBLE, GODS WORD, IS OUR CREATOR OF THE HUMANS, WE ARE NOT FROM APES, NOR ANY EVOLUTION EVIL CRAP BIG BANG! THE POINT WITH THIS VIDEO WERE TO SHOW THAT THE REALITY OF WORLD UNIVERSE FROM MEN IS FALSE AND ILLUSION, IN THAT SENSE GOOD VID, BUT WE CANNOT BELIEVE IN EVIL EVOLUTION FROM MEN AND IN SAME TIME JESUS CHRIST, GODS SON, AS PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR OF BIBLE AND YAHWEH, GOD OF BIBLE, GODS WORD.
If everything happens for a reason, then even unholy things like rape, murder, aboriton, ect are supposed to be good, as they are planne dout by god- thus removing free will, even the reality of heaven and hell. It's all a play, a movie, a script. Unwanted, in other words. I prefer free will.
@ryddelwearsahat Actually, those things happen according to the mystery of iniquity. And not only rape & murder, but our entire perception of reality. All evil is a subset of truth, since it's TRUE that evil can exist. The Bible says many times that the wicked will be judged. Judged for what, then, if they are not allowed to sin? No one said we didn't have free will, but that that free will is known beforehand by God and given a place and time to be worked out so that afterward it can be judged.
@ryddelwearsahat Actually it makes perfect sense, but people have a problem with perfection. If you watch a movie, for instance, you get the feeling that it is all happening before your eyes, but it is all fixed--on "Film," so to speak. The frames are all already there, but you experience the ups and downs of the movie as though they were happening in real time. God is outside of time, where everything is static, since only when you are constrained by time does anything seem to move or change.
@Apocryphile1970 ..not working, sorry. It's not about perfection, it's about common sense and planning. An unknown cannot be known yet still be an unknown- if even one person knows it, it is known, not unknown. That doesn't mean everyone knows this or that, but it doesn't mean that nobody knows it and the fact remains unknown.. same thing w/ the future- the future is an unknown, unpredictable.. if it is planned and made and pre-destined, there is no free will, no future. I'm not a tool or actor.
@Frenious Problem is, we look for what we think would be perfection rather than upon what is before our eyes. Were we to realize on a deep and visceral level just what reality we all were in, we would become more aware of the eternal nature of the world that is before our eyes. It is there no matter what our state of mind.
@Frenious It has been my experience that things happen for some purpose in my life. It is easy for me to recognize patterns in my past. When things happened to me that defied chance, I began to question Chaos Theory. The more I suspected that there was something Greater behind what we called "reality," the more I saw it. The more I saw it, the more I acted on it. The more I acted on it, the more I came to live within it. Living in that kind of reality is a very powerful drug indeed. Good stuff!!
@Apocryphile1970 no, thats just where the video starts when you click on the time stamp... im referring to the following image that is actually at 0:53... the man in the air that represents a DNA strain with the process of evolution below him... its AWESOME!!! but thanks for helping...
God has created everything that has is and will be , He is finished and He does not change His mind . What He has done is perfect according to His plan and nothing will change but all that is written shall come to pass . His will , will be done and all the sons and daughters of Adam will be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth . All of the fallen watchers will be destroyed forever as they are vessels created for destruction , they are made for our creation which will soon be done .
Guys everything is decided by God If we immediately come to know the purpose of an event things might not happen as decide by God and its true that everything happens for a reason and from a good one its my observation. we might come to know the reason why the bad event took place later in our lives we must not think about the reason instead we should carry on with a new zeal
...but if God is outside of space and time, unless He could somehow hide things from Himself, He couldn't help but know all that has happened, or will happen, or all that ever could happen based on His being able to see it all at once. Not so great a leap if one thinks just in just one extra dimension. Scientists posit at least eleven dimensions of reality. Hard to conceive of God running an eleven-dimensional universe and not knowing all of the mere four-dimensional time lines.
the existence of a god is another maybe and most people cut themselves off by claiming there is or isnt a god. And if there is a god i see no point to creating the universe if everything is preset and determined; he may know what happens but i think somehow free will would still be involved
@timo906 It's all a matter of how you look at it. An atheist honestly believes that life issues from non-life, order from disorder, purpose from meaninglessness. A believer in God believes that life came from Life, order from order, and purpose from a greater purpose. It is far less likely that all that there is came by chance alone, and yet the two possibilities are coextensive. In theory, what HAS happened can never be logically separated from what was SUPPOSED to happen.
All things are predestined and preordained by God, who says Himself in scripture "I create good and make evil. All things work together just the way He has planned and nothing can change or go against the will of God.
It is the worst circular reasoning for the individual. Seriously, they believe in reincarnaion NOW but in the next life, they won't believe in recarnation? Suddenly, the belief is falsified by the same individual in the next life It happened even in an earlier Life before the NOW believer in reincarnation. How about people being atheists once and now are creationists. Next life? Why reason with anyone when you can't even reason with your past life.
The best thing about christianity is that it's the only religion (however it shouldn't be called a religion) is the only faith where it's faith it's FAITH to get to heaven not by works man buddhhism hindu all by works you have to reincarnate 1,0000000 times just to reach nirvana phooey! Jesus is the answer and blessed are ALL that believe and shall be saved!
And as to the pantheists? Consider this that GOD is everything and not a personal GOD at all. Pantheists contradict the testimony of conciousness as well as other things about GOD and the universe.
As a French philosopher-poet once said about pantheism, ' Strange truth hard to conceive, humiliating alike for the heart and the brain, that the universe, that we all should be GOD, and NOT know it.'
First, atheists believe in NOTHING after this world. That is all they studied and debated, in particular the concept of ' evolution ' but for what purpose for the individual? Seriously, do they really care about the population especially the creationist population AFTER them? They consider themselves geniuses and those that believe in GOD imbeciles, so GOD will measure out what they desire before Him NOTHING that includes Eternal LIFE. Quite pathetic.
One can assume memories will carry on after our bodily death to appear before GOD. It's almost like memories are part of the storage of the soul that never dies of each individual. Yet, even some good and bad memories are lost but will be revealed by GOD Himself.
We are in the Order of Generation of Adam and Eve after the Order of Ceation. We're born after the fall. We can inherit in the Lord Jesus our own resurrection. Everything happens for a reason.
Greetings, Apocryphile. I'm glad you are on the side of logic. Beautiful music of The Church to your thoughtful comments.
One of Kilbey's other song would be fitting to this video. ' A Means to an End.'
There must be a GOD and the beautiful Resurrection of each individual because if one considers the atheist or pantheist concept of 'reality' by their own 'belief' it is shameful. As to the Resurrection even after seven yrs all our cells are new in our bodies but our memories remain...why?
I appreciate your POV, but I have come to understand the reality in which I live. I usually know why things happen to me simply because I accept that the universe wants me to know. You could call it karma or kismet or something, but it is the LOGOS, it works its way through all of my experiences and teaches me along the way. Hundreds of things in my life are inexplicable without it. The so-called "Real World" is falsity itself; the product of Self-Will and not of God consciousness in ourselves.
"hitsuzen" is a japonies word that has no direct english translation, generaly it means there is fate or destony because without sertian actions the present wouldent be the present, therefor our past actions profosize the future.thinking of it this way everything would be fate because if it wosent we would have no control of our actions. but that kind of brings you to the same conclusion aswell. anyway look it up and tell me what you think!
I'd say that what we think of as matter and time is really a giant mechanism of truth and consequences. The judgment of the Great Truth manifests itself in matter and time as the language of "reality." Each person is the center of their own personal mechanism of fate and destiny, as well as spiritual and material cause and effect. If one learns not to stand in need of too much correction, the Great Truth will not need to focus on correction, and will move on to revelation of Itself.
What I said was that Perfection Deals With Imperfection, judges it. That's not the same as not existing. What is imperfect is made perfect, what is lacking is filled up, what remains to be done receives its fulfillment. It is a process that God has worked out in multiple dimensions of space and time.
I understand what your saying and dont really refute it but what about when Christ said. "he who commits sin is a slave to sin, the slave to does not continue in the house forever, the son continues forever." So what is that not continuing in the house? At what about what is darkness at the resurection and the end of the world, it wont continue on the Earth when all causes of sin are gathered up and burned. So there's a cutoff point.
Thanks for the comments, the talk has been interesting. I especially like to see the different points of view on this important topic on existence and humanity's endless search for truth.
In regards to imperfection being required for perfection, I still don't get it. You're saying Perfection deals with imperfection? I assume you mean this because you consider God to be perfect and dealing with the Universe and humanity, which you appear to consider to be imperfect.
Look, if you had puzzle to put together, but at the moment it was in a thousand pieces on the table, would it be imperfect? Assuming all the pieces were there to begin with, the answer would be no, for though it is a picture in the end, until it is completed, it still looks like a bunch of pieces. It's not imperfect, it's just a puzzle. To someone who doesn't know that it comes to together in the end, it seems like just a jumbled mess, but it only seemed to be. The picture is the proof of that.
God exists outside of space and time for the same reason that math and logic exist outside of space and time. When did one plus one START to equal two? Was there a day or an hour when this BEGAN to be true? Is there a day or an hour when this will CEASE to be true? Truth is just like that, it is neither created nor destroyed--it simply IS. That's what Yahweh says of Himself--I AM.
20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.Philippians 3
yes. one plus one started equaling 'two' the day the base ten arabic numeral system was put into use. In a base two numeral system one plus one would equal ten. totally man-made terminology
I think a parable would be that you can observe in nature is that when you turn on a light switch the darkness in the room is by neccessity then light. God Christ is lampstand, the lightswitch just because the room was dark doesnt mean he didn't make it, it was made to be filled with the light.
Some people see something poetic for believing things they know to be false. This includes heaven, stories in religious text known to be false and other things.
I for one would love to believe that Santa will bring me gifts, but if we all believed in just because it poetic and gives us hope in magical things, then no presents would arrive, except perhaps only thanks to some atheist, because they would be open minded enough to know.
You would have to be insanely arrogant to believe that the world and all the events that occur on it are constantly manipulated to benefit the minority who hold a particular belief or have requested lenience from their chosen deity.
To borrow from Douglas Adams: If a puddle considered the indentation it lay in, it may conclude that the shape of the indentation MUST have been designed specifically with the puddle in mind, for it fits perfectly.
Well, that's not at all what the video is about. It wasn't "Just What Happens to You or Those Who Are Like You Happens For a Reason." It just means that there is a greater purpose beyond all that we allow ourselves to see, and taken to its logical conclusion, this world is nothing but the purpose of that Being. We live in that Being, either with or without that understanding. Though not all of the parts of the story seem pleasant, they all contribute to the end of death & the beginning of life.
If there was a being with such a purpose then all the incredible horrors that ocur "naturally" in the world, would ocur according to his purpose, which is his will.
This means the countless natural abortions, disasters and suffering in the natural world, would be his doing. They'd all fit according to his purpose. His inability or disregard for preventing such horrors, would make him the sole responsible being for their occurrence. Doesn't it seems like a flawed human idea?
I'm not claiming that we know it all - far from it, but the only reason I see for believing in a creator is the primitive notion that we can create things so something must have created everything. Unfortunately, organised religion has hijacked this flawed concept and refuses to allow those indoctrinated to question it. The flaw I refer to is that invoking a creator to explain how we got here just further complicates matters as the next logical step is to query god's origin
Great video, well-done! You know, after the Enlighhtenment there was much materialist philosophy, like the Empiricism of Locke, Hume, etc..Anglo-Irish philosopher (Bishop) George Berkeley invented, following Plato, Idealism, which influenced Kant, Hegel, Schelling, Emerson, Schopenhaur, etc..he suggested that nothing in the world is real & we only experience what we are meant to experience, the reason being God wanting us to evolve spiritually. Crazy, but then again not, if you think about it..
The minds that preceded us have gone to great lengths to try to understand our world and the reality of their experience. It doesn't mean that reality conforms to what they concluded with their limited understanding of the world, but instead, that their careful observation of reality suggested to them that such properties were possibly accurate. There are still many unknowns. The scientific method can help us, with great detail, to verify our conceptions of the world.
People think God infringes their freedom to be one with him through Christ but it's not true. What causes men to lose freedom and be slaves is sin and death because of our imperfections we're limited in many things and all things like movement. When your totally one with God and free from all sin/death your freedom is infinite you move about for instance not confined to legs and cars but as the angels at the speed of thought. God is infinite freedom.
If we're imperfect and yet were created by a perfectly infinite being, we must be perfect, for an entity that is infinitely perfect (god) could not possibly perform an act that is infinitesimally imperfect.
There is no such thing as Sin. It is a preposterous idea invented by man to account for acts and to justify events that were beyond their comprehension and explanation.
Oh there's definitely such a thing as sin. Any contradiction of God is sin. Sin puts you outside of God and makes you of what God is not which is death and decay and cancer and darkness and uncleaness and he who committs sin is a slave to sin. Say an act of contrition today and feel cleaness and grace come over you.
If any contraction of God is sin, then God's own omnipotence would be sin.
A being that is omnipotent is all powerful. An all powerful being can create a stone that he himself cannot lift. If god can create a stone he himself could not lift, he is not omnipotent. If god lifts the stone, he was not all powerful to create a stone he himself could not lift. God's omnipotence is contradictory, thus, God is a sinful god according to your line of thought.
"If any contraction of God is sin, then God's own omnipotence would be sin." is a quote from sizzle2's comment.
And to clarify my last point:
Say god creates a stone he himself cannot lift, he needs to be able to do this to be omnipotent, all powerful. If god tries to lift the stone, an fails, he is not omnipotent. If he tries to lift the stone and lifts it, he was not omnipotent to create the stone he himself could not lift.
God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. And I dont really know what point your trying to make because God can lift any stone he pleases.
Dear sizzle2, please re-read what I meant to say about God's omnipotence, I'll be happy to clarify, this is a known problem with omnipotence and people have come up with all sorts of bs to try to go around the logical inconsistencies with the idea of omnipotence. Not really new. Cheers.
He was omnipotent enough to destroy all those who didn't believe in Christ that were in Jerusalem. He was omnipotent enough to will creation into existence. Yes, everything happening all the time is his deign.
There is no such thing as "omnipotent enough to". You're either omnipotent (all powerful) or you're not omnipotent (all powerful), there is no in-between.
If you think God will tolerate evil your wrong. The flood of Noah and the Siege of Jerusalem where all who believed not in Christ were slayed by the Romans prefigure the end of the world. God the savior ordered that the Gosepl be preached to all nations and those who believe as in Jerusalem will be saved and those who do not believe as in the siege of Jerusalem will slain. However that is manifested. So if God saves those who believe in Christ and condemns those who do not he's evil?
Well, I guess it really all hinges on whether or not there is a power behind all that we see as random. If there is a Controller or a Power behind it, and a Power behind each of us such that you could look at it and read something into it, then I suppose it would be very much woth looking into! I, for one, can attest to patterns and occurences in my own life that point to everything I am now. Things that I didn't understand at the time that now I do. Everyone should be aware of that at least!
If we understand that we have the power to give meaning and value to our lives, and to find meaning and reason for the future, then why should we give value to our own lives and existence in accordance to the existence of some higher controller or power?
If there is a 50% chance that there is a higher power and a 50% chance that there is not-should we simply say "unless this 50% chance is correct, my life has value and things make sense?". We can assign meaning, regardless.
There is no 50% chance. Science believes there MUST be an answer, but it has not yet accounted for the processes that the advocates of intelligent design have posed to them. Science is just a belief in what you can measure and what you can repeat. If as you claim, there could be even the slightest chance for a God, then science could never find him if He did not wish to be found. Quantum theory has these kinds of implications, and these principle hold up the rest of the 'material' universe.
Either it is or it isn't, I'd say, on the current state of affairs, that's a 50% chance in any league. You went on to great length to try to define what science is, what god could do, what your limited understanding of the scientific process, quantum mechanics and the state of affairs on the debate with intelligent design is, yet you did nothing to disprove that there is simply a 50% chance that either God exists or he doesn't exist. Period.
"Why would you want to reason everything? Just accept what it is"
Why are we searching for truth? Because there is so many wonders yet to be seen and understood. Even the cause behind the Universe might have a meaning that precedes its existence.
I surely hope you don't think we already know everything that there is to know about the world. The quest for truth has only just begun.
@Sjorsk: "Thats the one and only reason you'll need to know"
Should we simply accept answers as pondered by our ancestors? We have already found countless flaws in early appreciations of the world. We can humbly accept that as we grew up, we individually found that some of our early appreciations were incorrect, the same has happened throughout history in our human civilization.
"We humans are like two-year-olds, just beginning to understand the immensity, wonder, and hazards of the wide world."
Well, You could use this insight to deduce all kinds of things, since everything has a cause, but I guess the point I was making was that not only does everything have a cause, but that everything happens for a reason. A slight difference, but a significant one. It means that if you could look at your life and the world around you as having a MEANING, instead of being all kinds of causes and effects that happen more or less by chance or tendency, then one could begin to understand one's purpose.
My own experience has led me to see this more and more because knowing these things can transform your whole life and help you to understand what your pupose is, and that the real power comes from changing your perception of the way the universe works from mere cause and effect to purpose.
Reason is not the same thing as causality, in the context Acropyhile1970 implied. He is saying that independent of the cause, there is a singular meaning, an absolute reason, for any given event in the universe. I understand why he sees it this way, we've evolved amazing pattern-recognition abilities that have allowed us to progress and understand our world in terms of cause and effect. We're programmed to think in absolutes and see the world linearly in this way.
We eagerly hope for a single meaning. We perceive a linear world of linear causality. A world that makes sense to us, that our minds can easily grasp, this gives us comfort. But is this necessarily so?
The more I learn about relativity, Quantum Entaglement, Quantum Delayed choice quantum eraser experiments, the more I have come to grasp that reality is far stranger, majestic and alien than what our intuition naturally allows us to perceive.
I believe meaning, as causality in a relativistic approach, is observer-dependent.
We do not yet know what is the ultimate cause. The meaning behind a single drop of rain in the Caribbean is not limited to evaporation, to planet formation, to sky appreciation, and perhaps not even limited to Universe formation.
We could say the drop of rain's cause is a result of Universal evolution. That might be amongst the most encompassing, physically accurate and scientifically correct descriptions.
I don't believe anything (be it an object, an event or an idea) has to have an objective "reason". The "reason" behind anything that can exist or be pondered, comes to be only in a subjective experience, it happens, individually, in each of the minds that experiences it.
Since each individual experience of an event can vary greatly, a subjective mind's experience of an event can be unique and be quite different from that of another.
I don't think there is an innate reason for any event in the Universe. It is we, the subjective parts of the Universe, who can ponder and experience these event, thus subjectively, we provide a "reason" by reasoning an event. There can be an infinitely amount of reasons, when there are infinitely amounts of subjective experiences of any one event.
I believe everything that is extremely likely to happen in contrast to that which is extremely unlikely to happen, usually happens given enough time.
But I could think of coincidences, times in my life when I would understand things in retrospect--like oh, yeah, that's why such and such happened to me. See, I mean we all have times in our lives when all the pieces fall into place and we understand that everything had been moving us in that direction--that something was "meant to be" and "in the works" even before we knew anything about it. That's what I'm talking about--that something has everything arranged so as to fall in place for you.
In retrospect a red light changed so that one man could die in the place of another. Was that a reason? Meant to be? It is only us, subjectively, who in retrospect or as we experience an event, give countless meanings. We detect patterns occasionally, and it all seems to make sense to us. This is an evolutionary advantage, that helps us understand our world. It doesn't mean that this is how the world works, my friend.
Many things, simply do not make any sense to us...we thus conclude that since our brains fail to understand a pattern, where there "clearly should be", some other intelligence, such as a group, a politician, a tribal leader or a higher level superintelligence must grasp it, some greater force must be coordinating it. Just because we sometimes find patterns in causality, it doesn't mean they have a singular meaning. Today it might mean something to you, but that could change tomorrow.
You could come up with literally dozens of reasons for anything. You see a book on a shelf. Why is that book there? Well, someone put it there, someone bought it, someone published it, someone wrote it, they had all kinds of reasons for writing it, it resonated with the person who bought it, it fulfilled the purposes of the one who published it, it was made possible by Gutenberg and all of the advances in bookmaking, etc. You could never go through ALL of the reasons, I suppose.
In this sense, we can understand that the world is not necessarily as we perceive it, and that our meaning of events can change in accordance to how we perceive them. Why is this important to understand? because:
As we see our world so we act and as we act so it becomes.
We have the ability to transform our world for the better. To know that tomorrow we might learn and overcome current misconceptions of the Universe is liberating, and should give us hope for the future.
I dont believe in evolution because it's numerically impossible and it's chaotic and God is not a God of chaos. But it's true absolutely everything is of precise order, there is no such thing as coincidences. When you know God in the person of Jesus Christ you see his reflection in all things.
I don't believe in evolution either, but we do see a long history of different life forms that once inhabited the earth. Whatever the mechanism, I believe that it is of God. Nothing ever happens by pure chance alone.
God is not a God of chaos? If you believe in the Old Testament, when God brought about the flood, he brought about chaos, did he not? Considering God to be infinite, if he did indeed perform an act of chaos, such an action makes him infinitely chaotic.
Leave an apple on a table, and it'll decay. The second law of thermodynamics applies to the Universe. The sun is chaotic. Your cells are decaying. Chaos is in us and all around us.
Pockets of order can emerge in a sea of Chaos. Some levels of order can persist longer than others. Life is a form of order that can learn to replicate. Mutations and conscious evolution can allow life to achieve ever increasing levels of order.
"Life and Intelligence must never stagnate, it must reorder, transform and transcend its limits in an unlimited progressive process. We seek the exuberant and dynamic continuation of this unlimited process." - H+
The sun is chaotic yet it's so perfectly placed in relation to the earth so that it can be 70 degrees farenheit all the time in many parts of the Earth. God is all good all perfect spirit when he allows evil to befall something it's because it must die because it's hindering his cultivations and he himself such is sin such is death without death decay there might be a stagnateness is part of why he allws sin and death as birth pains. Pretty much all physical creation is corupted though.
Anything not in perfect unison with God is evil which is nothingness,death. Through Christ you can become of God, part of him. The God who is. what is not part of God is what is not. You literally walk around in God but whatever has become not of him will be destroyed it cant live of itself, nothing lives but God.
It seems ironic that contradictory memes persist in perfect harmony within your mind. You harbor a meme that forces to exalt a "perfect" deity, yet also pushes you to condemn your deity's own creations as corrupted and imperfect. One cannot be both perfect and imperfect. Sad, really, to not see with clarity how these ideas clash and are fully incompatible, making sense only to your mind.
They make sense according to the Gospel and John the Holy Spirit although I have to thank for your comments because I havn't thought of these things in quite a while.
I remember a time when the world being flat made sense to many, many stories decisions and scrolls were written in that respect, because it made "sense", even though it was completely illogical. I also remember when talking snakes, burning bushes, talismans, gods, ghosts, purgatories and magical stories made sense to our feeble human minds.
True worship of God requires not superstition in fact it's the anti-thesis. And it was the Christians who discovered that the world was round. The Jesuits I think. Half the known planets and celestial bodies were discovered and named by Jesuits and all physical creation reflects God's nature very blatantly.
"all physical creation reflects God's nature very blatantly"
Please help me to understand how God's nature explain the horrifying suffering caused by the brutality of natural abortions?
Why is there cancer and horrible suffering caused by genes, a product of God's own design? Why would we blame all this on a perfect entity? There is no blame. He did not intervine in this way, because he is a product of our minds to explain our reality and circumstances and give hope.
As we put our hopes on imaginary entities of our own creation (to which we assign flawed characteristics such as hate, punishment, vengeance, love, jealousy) to explain primarily who we are, why we're here and where we're going, eventually all sorts of flaws become apparent when new truths are understood and discovered.
because of sin. Sin is where God is not, where God is contradicted, the contradiction of God is death. Cancer and all physical things are a manifestation of some physical reality and everything God does is to bring everybody back to himself through Christ for eternal happiness. I dont know why he does things the way he does. I dont question his methods. Why a Cross? These are things present that are outside of the divine nature like a sick and twisted tree.
Many things made sense back then, that make no sense today. We're trying to make sense of this world and it is hard to tell what is likely true vs that which is not. By observing, we've devised a wonderful tool, called the scientific method which helps us in this quest for truth. I thank you for taking time to talk to me too. We're both humbly learning and re-learning about ourselves, the physics of the Universe and the nature of reality itself. It is a beautiful quest indeed.
Well, you really have to include what you call "imperfection" in the context of a larger Perfection. Since it is possible to lie, for instance, lies exist within the realm of possibility. Therefore any "perfection" that excluded lies would thus deny certain possibilities, and thus remain "imperfect." Perfection thus of necessity has to deal with all realities.
"you really have to include what you call imperfection in the context of a larger perfection"?
You're saying imperfection is required for Pefection. If you think about it, you're saying Perfection must be imperfect. Why not just flat out say there is no such thing as perfection?
Since it is possible for falsehoods and sicknesses and poverty and pain, etc, to exist, no existence would be "Perfect" without taking these things into account. You must allow for "Perfection" to WORK OUT "Imperfection." Not to deny it, but to deal with it. This is God's JUDGMENT. This is exactly what the Bible says that God intends to do.
According to most beliefs in godlike creators, all things are created by god. All things made possible by its will. So if falsehood, sickness, poverty and pain exist, we are forced to conclude he allowed them to be a possibility. Even if the event happens as a result of the exercise of will by one of his creations, these terrible events are only possible within the realms of possibilities he has created. Seems like a flawed human concept, rather than a godlike superintelligence.
This doesn't mean at all that there is zero possibility that the Universe could've been created or designed by some form of superintelligence, however, the attributes we have been assigning have been proven awfully human-centric, short-sighted, naive and close-minded. More often than major "truths" have been found to be wrong within the texts written by humans on these "holy books" subjects. I'd take what the Bible and any other book says with a grain of salt.
Also, even if there is a possibility that the Universe could've been created by a higher superintelligence, it doesn't mean at all that it is probable. All the evidence points the other way around. No design. Just order emerging out of chaos, the evolution of information on a Universal scale. No perfection exists, only a race to increasing levels of order.
So far, the holy books were inaccurate. They missed evolution, skipped the scientific method, thought the world as flat and immovable, etc.
You say evolution is numerically impossible, yet if you believe in God you believe everything is possible to God.
If God were to have used evolution and order emerging out of chaos to create the Universe and everything within it, then you would be wrong. If that were the case, you would be denying God's own godly omnipotence.
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Yahweh of Bible, Gods Word, showing truth here regarding Evolution and its Big Bang and apes.. Wisdom of this World is foolishness for God and Jesus Christ, Gods Son of Bible, Gods Word. True that the truth is from God of Bible and Jesus Christ Gods son of Yahweh of Bible, behind all the evil Big Bang and its Evolution apes lies from Satan.
jesusgospeltrue 5 months ago
I MUST MAKE A STAND YAHWEH, GOD OF BIBLE, GODS WORD, IS OUR CREATOR OF THE HUMANS, WE ARE NOT FROM APES, NOR ANY EVOLUTION EVIL CRAP BIG BANG! THE POINT WITH THIS VIDEO WERE TO SHOW THAT THE REALITY OF WORLD UNIVERSE FROM MEN IS FALSE AND ILLUSION, IN THAT SENSE GOOD VID, BUT WE CANNOT BELIEVE IN EVIL EVOLUTION FROM MEN AND IN SAME TIME JESUS CHRIST, GODS SON, AS PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR OF BIBLE AND YAHWEH, GOD OF BIBLE, GODS WORD.
jesusgospeltrue 5 months ago
definately going to file this one in the "pointless file"
BADDOOKUS 6 months ago
If everything happens for a reason, then even unholy things like rape, murder, aboriton, ect are supposed to be good, as they are planne dout by god- thus removing free will, even the reality of heaven and hell. It's all a play, a movie, a script. Unwanted, in other words. I prefer free will.
ryddelwearsahat 10 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat Actually, those things happen according to the mystery of iniquity. And not only rape & murder, but our entire perception of reality. All evil is a subset of truth, since it's TRUE that evil can exist. The Bible says many times that the wicked will be judged. Judged for what, then, if they are not allowed to sin? No one said we didn't have free will, but that that free will is known beforehand by God and given a place and time to be worked out so that afterward it can be judged.
Apocryphile1970 10 months ago
@Apocryphile1970 ...that.. makes no sense, sorry.
ryddelwearsahat 10 months ago
@ryddelwearsahat Actually it makes perfect sense, but people have a problem with perfection. If you watch a movie, for instance, you get the feeling that it is all happening before your eyes, but it is all fixed--on "Film," so to speak. The frames are all already there, but you experience the ups and downs of the movie as though they were happening in real time. God is outside of time, where everything is static, since only when you are constrained by time does anything seem to move or change.
Apocryphile1970 10 months ago
@Apocryphile1970 ..not working, sorry. It's not about perfection, it's about common sense and planning. An unknown cannot be known yet still be an unknown- if even one person knows it, it is known, not unknown. That doesn't mean everyone knows this or that, but it doesn't mean that nobody knows it and the fact remains unknown.. same thing w/ the future- the future is an unknown, unpredictable.. if it is planned and made and pre-destined, there is no free will, no future. I'm not a tool or actor.
ryddelwearsahat 10 months ago
@Apocryphile1970
What drug are you on?
Frenious 7 months ago
@Frenious Problem is, we look for what we think would be perfection rather than upon what is before our eyes. Were we to realize on a deep and visceral level just what reality we all were in, we would become more aware of the eternal nature of the world that is before our eyes. It is there no matter what our state of mind.
Apocryphile1970 7 months ago
@Apocryphile1970
sooo.....cocaine...LSD....?
Frenious 7 months ago
@Frenious It has been my experience that things happen for some purpose in my life. It is easy for me to recognize patterns in my past. When things happened to me that defied chance, I began to question Chaos Theory. The more I suspected that there was something Greater behind what we called "reality," the more I saw it. The more I saw it, the more I acted on it. The more I acted on it, the more I came to live within it. Living in that kind of reality is a very powerful drug indeed. Good stuff!!
Apocryphile1970 7 months ago
@Apocryphile1970 in other words manipulative douchebags are trying to control people
joemoin 8 months ago
brother,the artist depicts a darwin theory at 0:55 and i strongly disagree with him.
we do not come from monkeys,maybe he does.LOL.cool post thank you.
YeshuaISMessiah1 11 months ago
anyone know of the artist that did 0:53 ???
furvert101 1 year ago
@furvert101 Alex Grey
Apocryphile1970 1 year ago
@Apocryphile1970 no, thats just where the video starts when you click on the time stamp... im referring to the following image that is actually at 0:53... the man in the air that represents a DNA strain with the process of evolution below him... its AWESOME!!! but thanks for helping...
furvert101 1 year ago
Thanks!
Delishful 1 year ago
God has created everything that has is and will be , He is finished and He does not change His mind . What He has done is perfect according to His plan and nothing will change but all that is written shall come to pass . His will , will be done and all the sons and daughters of Adam will be saved and come to the full knowledge of the truth . All of the fallen watchers will be destroyed forever as they are vessels created for destruction , they are made for our creation which will soon be done .
popinu1 1 year ago
Guys everything is decided by God If we immediately come to know the purpose of an event things might not happen as decide by God and its true that everything happens for a reason and from a good one its my observation. we might come to know the reason why the bad event took place later in our lives we must not think about the reason instead we should carry on with a new zeal
Biotichumanniod 2 years ago
lol "god" haha
pussywran 2 years ago
If u dont like such videos why watch them???
Biotichumanniod 2 years ago
errr.... i dunno. remember that the universe contains a maybe.
stove167 2 years ago
Maybe....
...but if God is outside of space and time, unless He could somehow hide things from Himself, He couldn't help but know all that has happened, or will happen, or all that ever could happen based on His being able to see it all at once. Not so great a leap if one thinks just in just one extra dimension. Scientists posit at least eleven dimensions of reality. Hard to conceive of God running an eleven-dimensional universe and not knowing all of the mere four-dimensional time lines.
Apocryphile1970 2 years ago
the existence of a god is another maybe and most people cut themselves off by claiming there is or isnt a god. And if there is a god i see no point to creating the universe if everything is preset and determined; he may know what happens but i think somehow free will would still be involved
stove167 2 years ago
@Apocryphile1970 and what if God doesn't exist?
timo906 1 year ago
@timo906 It's all a matter of how you look at it. An atheist honestly believes that life issues from non-life, order from disorder, purpose from meaninglessness. A believer in God believes that life came from Life, order from order, and purpose from a greater purpose. It is far less likely that all that there is came by chance alone, and yet the two possibilities are coextensive. In theory, what HAS happened can never be logically separated from what was SUPPOSED to happen.
Apocryphile1970 1 year ago
All things are predestined and preordained by God, who says Himself in scripture "I create good and make evil. All things work together just the way He has planned and nothing can change or go against the will of God.
popinu1 2 years ago
Yep God is good.
Themaskedchristian77 2 years ago
@popinu1 We do have free will...the ALL KNOWING can veto it if there is a greater purpose/lesson. This life is a mixture of free will and destiny.
jfox1 1 year ago
Now, the great silliness reincarnation.
It is the worst circular reasoning for the individual. Seriously, they believe in reincarnaion NOW but in the next life, they won't believe in recarnation? Suddenly, the belief is falsified by the same individual in the next life It happened even in an earlier Life before the NOW believer in reincarnation. How about people being atheists once and now are creationists. Next life? Why reason with anyone when you can't even reason with your past life.
Aresthanas 2 years ago
The best thing about christianity is that it's the only religion (however it shouldn't be called a religion) is the only faith where it's faith it's FAITH to get to heaven not by works man buddhhism hindu all by works you have to reincarnate 1,0000000 times just to reach nirvana phooey! Jesus is the answer and blessed are ALL that believe and shall be saved!
Themaskedchristian77 2 years ago
And as to the pantheists? Consider this that GOD is everything and not a personal GOD at all. Pantheists contradict the testimony of conciousness as well as other things about GOD and the universe.
As a French philosopher-poet once said about pantheism, ' Strange truth hard to conceive, humiliating alike for the heart and the brain, that the universe, that we all should be GOD, and NOT know it.'
Aresthanas 2 years ago
Ok, as to both atheism and pantheists.
First, atheists believe in NOTHING after this world. That is all they studied and debated, in particular the concept of ' evolution ' but for what purpose for the individual? Seriously, do they really care about the population especially the creationist population AFTER them? They consider themselves geniuses and those that believe in GOD imbeciles, so GOD will measure out what they desire before Him NOTHING that includes Eternal LIFE. Quite pathetic.
Aresthanas 2 years ago
One can assume memories will carry on after our bodily death to appear before GOD. It's almost like memories are part of the storage of the soul that never dies of each individual. Yet, even some good and bad memories are lost but will be revealed by GOD Himself.
We are in the Order of Generation of Adam and Eve after the Order of Ceation. We're born after the fall. We can inherit in the Lord Jesus our own resurrection. Everything happens for a reason.
A means to an End. Thanks be to GOD.
Aresthanas 2 years ago
Greetings, Apocryphile. I'm glad you are on the side of logic. Beautiful music of The Church to your thoughtful comments.
One of Kilbey's other song would be fitting to this video. ' A Means to an End.'
There must be a GOD and the beautiful Resurrection of each individual because if one considers the atheist or pantheist concept of 'reality' by their own 'belief' it is shameful. As to the Resurrection even after seven yrs all our cells are new in our bodies but our memories remain...why?
Aresthanas 2 years ago
fake..
KleerSkeleton 3 years ago
I appreciate your POV, but I have come to understand the reality in which I live. I usually know why things happen to me simply because I accept that the universe wants me to know. You could call it karma or kismet or something, but it is the LOGOS, it works its way through all of my experiences and teaches me along the way. Hundreds of things in my life are inexplicable without it. The so-called "Real World" is falsity itself; the product of Self-Will and not of God consciousness in ourselves.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
"hitsuzen" is a japonies word that has no direct english translation, generaly it means there is fate or destony because without sertian actions the present wouldent be the present, therefor our past actions profosize the future.thinking of it this way everything would be fate because if it wosent we would have no control of our actions. but that kind of brings you to the same conclusion aswell. anyway look it up and tell me what you think!
humunculy7c 3 years ago
I'd say that what we think of as matter and time is really a giant mechanism of truth and consequences. The judgment of the Great Truth manifests itself in matter and time as the language of "reality." Each person is the center of their own personal mechanism of fate and destiny, as well as spiritual and material cause and effect. If one learns not to stand in need of too much correction, the Great Truth will not need to focus on correction, and will move on to revelation of Itself.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
You can't find out the reasons, but everything does happen for a reason! Things are just what they are. I believe we choose our fate.
lykeomgz1987 3 years ago 2
What I said was that Perfection Deals With Imperfection, judges it. That's not the same as not existing. What is imperfect is made perfect, what is lacking is filled up, what remains to be done receives its fulfillment. It is a process that God has worked out in multiple dimensions of space and time.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
I understand what your saying and dont really refute it but what about when Christ said. "he who commits sin is a slave to sin, the slave to does not continue in the house forever, the son continues forever." So what is that not continuing in the house? At what about what is darkness at the resurection and the end of the world, it wont continue on the Earth when all causes of sin are gathered up and burned. So there's a cutoff point.
sizzle2 3 years ago
@Aprocryphile1970
Thanks for the comments, the talk has been interesting. I especially like to see the different points of view on this important topic on existence and humanity's endless search for truth.
In regards to imperfection being required for perfection, I still don't get it. You're saying Perfection deals with imperfection? I assume you mean this because you consider God to be perfect and dealing with the Universe and humanity, which you appear to consider to be imperfect.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Look, if you had puzzle to put together, but at the moment it was in a thousand pieces on the table, would it be imperfect? Assuming all the pieces were there to begin with, the answer would be no, for though it is a picture in the end, until it is completed, it still looks like a bunch of pieces. It's not imperfect, it's just a puzzle. To someone who doesn't know that it comes to together in the end, it seems like just a jumbled mess, but it only seemed to be. The picture is the proof of that.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
@aprocryphile1970
You said: "What is imperfect is made perfect, what is lacking is filled up, what remains to be done receives its fulfillment"
You believe God made everything right (including all realms of possibility)?
What did God make imperfect and why?
What is imperfect and made perfect, and how is this achieved?
How do you know how God works his "processes in multiple dimensions of space and time"? How did you reach this conclusion?
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
God exists outside of space and time for the same reason that math and logic exist outside of space and time. When did one plus one START to equal two? Was there a day or an hour when this BEGAN to be true? Is there a day or an hour when this will CEASE to be true? Truth is just like that, it is neither created nor destroyed--it simply IS. That's what Yahweh says of Himself--I AM.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.Philippians 3
:D
SWAUVE4U 3 years ago
yes. one plus one started equaling 'two' the day the base ten arabic numeral system was put into use. In a base two numeral system one plus one would equal ten. totally man-made terminology
thatleftycurse 3 years ago
I think a parable would be that you can observe in nature is that when you turn on a light switch the darkness in the room is by neccessity then light. God Christ is lampstand, the lightswitch just because the room was dark doesnt mean he didn't make it, it was made to be filled with the light.
sizzle2 3 years ago
Some people see something poetic for believing things they know to be false. This includes heaven, stories in religious text known to be false and other things.
I for one would love to believe that Santa will bring me gifts, but if we all believed in just because it poetic and gives us hope in magical things, then no presents would arrive, except perhaps only thanks to some atheist, because they would be open minded enough to know.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
You would have to be insanely arrogant to believe that the world and all the events that occur on it are constantly manipulated to benefit the minority who hold a particular belief or have requested lenience from their chosen deity.
To borrow from Douglas Adams: If a puddle considered the indentation it lay in, it may conclude that the shape of the indentation MUST have been designed specifically with the puddle in mind, for it fits perfectly.
Think about it.
tosspotovich 3 years ago
Well, that's not at all what the video is about. It wasn't "Just What Happens to You or Those Who Are Like You Happens For a Reason." It just means that there is a greater purpose beyond all that we allow ourselves to see, and taken to its logical conclusion, this world is nothing but the purpose of that Being. We live in that Being, either with or without that understanding. Though not all of the parts of the story seem pleasant, they all contribute to the end of death & the beginning of life.
ProgrammedBySociety 3 years ago
@ProgrammedBySociety
If there was a being with such a purpose then all the incredible horrors that ocur "naturally" in the world, would ocur according to his purpose, which is his will.
This means the countless natural abortions, disasters and suffering in the natural world, would be his doing. They'd all fit according to his purpose. His inability or disregard for preventing such horrors, would make him the sole responsible being for their occurrence. Doesn't it seems like a flawed human idea?
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
@ProgrammedBySociety
I'm not claiming that we know it all - far from it, but the only reason I see for believing in a creator is the primitive notion that we can create things so something must have created everything. Unfortunately, organised religion has hijacked this flawed concept and refuses to allow those indoctrinated to question it. The flaw I refer to is that invoking a creator to explain how we got here just further complicates matters as the next logical step is to query god's origin
tosspotovich 3 years ago
@tosspotovich
I completely agree with you.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Great video, well-done! You know, after the Enlighhtenment there was much materialist philosophy, like the Empiricism of Locke, Hume, etc..Anglo-Irish philosopher (Bishop) George Berkeley invented, following Plato, Idealism, which influenced Kant, Hegel, Schelling, Emerson, Schopenhaur, etc..he suggested that nothing in the world is real & we only experience what we are meant to experience, the reason being God wanting us to evolve spiritually. Crazy, but then again not, if you think about it..
kidcalabria 3 years ago
If everything happens for a reason, then God is definitely talking to us.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
Absolutely. It's just a shame that so many people don't get it, unfortunately.
kidcalabria 3 years ago
Have you considered the opposite, then:
If there isn't, is he still talking to you?
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
The minds that preceded us have gone to great lengths to try to understand our world and the reality of their experience. It doesn't mean that reality conforms to what they concluded with their limited understanding of the world, but instead, that their careful observation of reality suggested to them that such properties were possibly accurate. There are still many unknowns. The scientific method can help us, with great detail, to verify our conceptions of the world.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
People think God infringes their freedom to be one with him through Christ but it's not true. What causes men to lose freedom and be slaves is sin and death because of our imperfections we're limited in many things and all things like movement. When your totally one with God and free from all sin/death your freedom is infinite you move about for instance not confined to legs and cars but as the angels at the speed of thought. God is infinite freedom.
sizzle2 3 years ago
@sizzle2:
If we're imperfect and yet were created by a perfectly infinite being, we must be perfect, for an entity that is infinitely perfect (god) could not possibly perform an act that is infinitesimally imperfect.
There is no such thing as Sin. It is a preposterous idea invented by man to account for acts and to justify events that were beyond their comprehension and explanation.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Oh there's definitely such a thing as sin. Any contradiction of God is sin. Sin puts you outside of God and makes you of what God is not which is death and decay and cancer and darkness and uncleaness and he who committs sin is a slave to sin. Say an act of contrition today and feel cleaness and grace come over you.
sizzle2 3 years ago
@Sizzle2:
If any contraction of God is sin, then God's own omnipotence would be sin.
A being that is omnipotent is all powerful. An all powerful being can create a stone that he himself cannot lift. If god can create a stone he himself could not lift, he is not omnipotent. If god lifts the stone, he was not all powerful to create a stone he himself could not lift. God's omnipotence is contradictory, thus, God is a sinful god according to your line of thought.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
This is answered by what apocryphile said. But the time is at hand. Repent and believe in the Gospel.
sizzle2 3 years ago
(to correct)
that line:
"If any contraction of God is sin, then God's own omnipotence would be sin." is a quote from sizzle2's comment.
And to clarify my last point:
Say god creates a stone he himself cannot lift, he needs to be able to do this to be omnipotent, all powerful. If god tries to lift the stone, an fails, he is not omnipotent. If he tries to lift the stone and lifts it, he was not omnipotent to create the stone he himself could not lift.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
God desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. And I dont really know what point your trying to make because God can lift any stone he pleases.
sizzle2 3 years ago
@sizzle2:
"God desires all men to be saved"
I think it is the inverse:
All men desire God(s) to save them
Dear sizzle2, please re-read what I meant to say about God's omnipotence, I'll be happy to clarify, this is a known problem with omnipotence and people have come up with all sorts of bs to try to go around the logical inconsistencies with the idea of omnipotence. Not really new. Cheers.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
He was omnipotent enough to destroy all those who didn't believe in Christ that were in Jerusalem. He was omnipotent enough to will creation into existence. Yes, everything happening all the time is his deign.
sizzle2 3 years ago
@sizzle2
You said:
"He was omnipotent enough to (do x)"
There is no such thing as "omnipotent enough to". You're either omnipotent (all powerful) or you're not omnipotent (all powerful), there is no in-between.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
If you think God will tolerate evil your wrong. The flood of Noah and the Siege of Jerusalem where all who believed not in Christ were slayed by the Romans prefigure the end of the world. God the savior ordered that the Gosepl be preached to all nations and those who believe as in Jerusalem will be saved and those who do not believe as in the siege of Jerusalem will slain. However that is manifested. So if God saves those who believe in Christ and condemns those who do not he's evil?
sizzle2 3 years ago
But ... why would you want to reason everything?
Just accept what it is .. Because thats it..
it is what it is.. the reason doesnt matter since the only thing in life .. is to live.. thats the one and only reason you'll need to know.
just my 2 cents.. Hey btw if you wanna read a great book .. read Eckhart tolle his stuff.. its amazing
sjorsk 3 years ago
Well, I guess it really all hinges on whether or not there is a power behind all that we see as random. If there is a Controller or a Power behind it, and a Power behind each of us such that you could look at it and read something into it, then I suppose it would be very much woth looking into! I, for one, can attest to patterns and occurences in my own life that point to everything I am now. Things that I didn't understand at the time that now I do. Everyone should be aware of that at least!
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
@Apocryphile1970:
If we understand that we have the power to give meaning and value to our lives, and to find meaning and reason for the future, then why should we give value to our own lives and existence in accordance to the existence of some higher controller or power?
If there is a 50% chance that there is a higher power and a 50% chance that there is not-should we simply say "unless this 50% chance is correct, my life has value and things make sense?". We can assign meaning, regardless.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
And that doesn't mean we can't still value the other 50% as the most valuable and meaningful to us.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
There is no 50% chance. Science believes there MUST be an answer, but it has not yet accounted for the processes that the advocates of intelligent design have posed to them. Science is just a belief in what you can measure and what you can repeat. If as you claim, there could be even the slightest chance for a God, then science could never find him if He did not wish to be found. Quantum theory has these kinds of implications, and these principle hold up the rest of the 'material' universe.
ProgrammedBySociety 3 years ago
@ProgrammedBySociety
Either it is or it isn't, I'd say, on the current state of affairs, that's a 50% chance in any league. You went on to great length to try to define what science is, what god could do, what your limited understanding of the scientific process, quantum mechanics and the state of affairs on the debate with intelligent design is, yet you did nothing to disprove that there is simply a 50% chance that either God exists or he doesn't exist. Period.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
@Sjorsk:
"Why would you want to reason everything? Just accept what it is"
Why are we searching for truth? Because there is so many wonders yet to be seen and understood. Even the cause behind the Universe might have a meaning that precedes its existence.
I surely hope you don't think we already know everything that there is to know about the world. The quest for truth has only just begun.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
"Just accept [..] it is what it is"
- Yes, but what is it? That is yet to be answered.
"the reason doesn't matter"
It matters everything unless you're a comformist.
"the only thing in life...is to live"
And to live is to explore, discover and experience. To not ask, to not evolve, is to stagnate, and most often than not, to die.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
@Sjorsk: "Thats the one and only reason you'll need to know"
Should we simply accept answers as pondered by our ancestors? We have already found countless flaws in early appreciations of the world. We can humbly accept that as we grew up, we individually found that some of our early appreciations were incorrect, the same has happened throughout history in our human civilization.
"We humans are like two-year-olds, just beginning to understand the immensity, wonder, and hazards of the wide world."
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
reason is the same thing as cause.. so its quite logical that everything has a reason... since everything has a cause
sjorsk 3 years ago
Well, You could use this insight to deduce all kinds of things, since everything has a cause, but I guess the point I was making was that not only does everything have a cause, but that everything happens for a reason. A slight difference, but a significant one. It means that if you could look at your life and the world around you as having a MEANING, instead of being all kinds of causes and effects that happen more or less by chance or tendency, then one could begin to understand one's purpose.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
My own experience has led me to see this more and more because knowing these things can transform your whole life and help you to understand what your pupose is, and that the real power comes from changing your perception of the way the universe works from mere cause and effect to purpose.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
@Sjorsk
Reason is not the same thing as causality, in the context Acropyhile1970 implied. He is saying that independent of the cause, there is a singular meaning, an absolute reason, for any given event in the universe. I understand why he sees it this way, we've evolved amazing pattern-recognition abilities that have allowed us to progress and understand our world in terms of cause and effect. We're programmed to think in absolutes and see the world linearly in this way.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
We eagerly hope for a single meaning. We perceive a linear world of linear causality. A world that makes sense to us, that our minds can easily grasp, this gives us comfort. But is this necessarily so?
The more I learn about relativity, Quantum Entaglement, Quantum Delayed choice quantum eraser experiments, the more I have come to grasp that reality is far stranger, majestic and alien than what our intuition naturally allows us to perceive.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
I believe meaning, as causality in a relativistic approach, is observer-dependent.
We do not yet know what is the ultimate cause. The meaning behind a single drop of rain in the Caribbean is not limited to evaporation, to planet formation, to sky appreciation, and perhaps not even limited to Universe formation.
We could say the drop of rain's cause is a result of Universal evolution. That might be amongst the most encompassing, physically accurate and scientifically correct descriptions.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
(continued) but there could be so much more. There could be so much more.
It is better to accept the Universe as it truly is, rather than to persist in delusion however satisfying and reassuring.
I hope life and intelligence makes it beyond the cold whimper death of the Universe to answer these and asks brave new questions.
Rest assured, if we make it, we will find the answers.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
I don't believe anything (be it an object, an event or an idea) has to have an objective "reason". The "reason" behind anything that can exist or be pondered, comes to be only in a subjective experience, it happens, individually, in each of the minds that experiences it.
Since each individual experience of an event can vary greatly, a subjective mind's experience of an event can be unique and be quite different from that of another.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
I don't think there is an innate reason for any event in the Universe. It is we, the subjective parts of the Universe, who can ponder and experience these event, thus subjectively, we provide a "reason" by reasoning an event. There can be an infinitely amount of reasons, when there are infinitely amounts of subjective experiences of any one event.
I believe everything that is extremely likely to happen in contrast to that which is extremely unlikely to happen, usually happens given enough time.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
But I could think of coincidences, times in my life when I would understand things in retrospect--like oh, yeah, that's why such and such happened to me. See, I mean we all have times in our lives when all the pieces fall into place and we understand that everything had been moving us in that direction--that something was "meant to be" and "in the works" even before we knew anything about it. That's what I'm talking about--that something has everything arranged so as to fall in place for you.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
Dear Apocryphile1970:
In retrospect a red light changed so that one man could die in the place of another. Was that a reason? Meant to be? It is only us, subjectively, who in retrospect or as we experience an event, give countless meanings. We detect patterns occasionally, and it all seems to make sense to us. This is an evolutionary advantage, that helps us understand our world. It doesn't mean that this is how the world works, my friend.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Many things, simply do not make any sense to us...we thus conclude that since our brains fail to understand a pattern, where there "clearly should be", some other intelligence, such as a group, a politician, a tribal leader or a higher level superintelligence must grasp it, some greater force must be coordinating it. Just because we sometimes find patterns in causality, it doesn't mean they have a singular meaning. Today it might mean something to you, but that could change tomorrow.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
You could come up with literally dozens of reasons for anything. You see a book on a shelf. Why is that book there? Well, someone put it there, someone bought it, someone published it, someone wrote it, they had all kinds of reasons for writing it, it resonated with the person who bought it, it fulfilled the purposes of the one who published it, it was made possible by Gutenberg and all of the advances in bookmaking, etc. You could never go through ALL of the reasons, I suppose.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
Dear Acropyhile1970:
In this sense, we can understand that the world is not necessarily as we perceive it, and that our meaning of events can change in accordance to how we perceive them. Why is this important to understand? because:
As we see our world so we act and as we act so it becomes.
We have the ability to transform our world for the better. To know that tomorrow we might learn and overcome current misconceptions of the Universe is liberating, and should give us hope for the future.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
I dont believe in evolution because it's numerically impossible and it's chaotic and God is not a God of chaos. But it's true absolutely everything is of precise order, there is no such thing as coincidences. When you know God in the person of Jesus Christ you see his reflection in all things.
sizzle2 3 years ago
I don't believe in evolution either, but we do see a long history of different life forms that once inhabited the earth. Whatever the mechanism, I believe that it is of God. Nothing ever happens by pure chance alone.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
God is not a God of chaos? If you believe in the Old Testament, when God brought about the flood, he brought about chaos, did he not? Considering God to be infinite, if he did indeed perform an act of chaos, such an action makes him infinitely chaotic.
Leave an apple on a table, and it'll decay. The second law of thermodynamics applies to the Universe. The sun is chaotic. Your cells are decaying. Chaos is in us and all around us.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Pockets of order can emerge in a sea of Chaos. Some levels of order can persist longer than others. Life is a form of order that can learn to replicate. Mutations and conscious evolution can allow life to achieve ever increasing levels of order.
"Life and Intelligence must never stagnate, it must reorder, transform and transcend its limits in an unlimited progressive process. We seek the exuberant and dynamic continuation of this unlimited process." - H+
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
That whole process in the entire universe God was doing was to one to bring about the Christ. That time is past.
sizzle2 3 years ago
The sun is chaotic yet it's so perfectly placed in relation to the earth so that it can be 70 degrees farenheit all the time in many parts of the Earth. God is all good all perfect spirit when he allows evil to befall something it's because it must die because it's hindering his cultivations and he himself such is sin such is death without death decay there might be a stagnateness is part of why he allws sin and death as birth pains. Pretty much all physical creation is corupted though.
sizzle2 3 years ago
Anything not in perfect unison with God is evil which is nothingness,death. Through Christ you can become of God, part of him. The God who is. what is not part of God is what is not. You literally walk around in God but whatever has become not of him will be destroyed it cant live of itself, nothing lives but God.
sizzle2 3 years ago
It seems ironic that contradictory memes persist in perfect harmony within your mind. You harbor a meme that forces to exalt a "perfect" deity, yet also pushes you to condemn your deity's own creations as corrupted and imperfect. One cannot be both perfect and imperfect. Sad, really, to not see with clarity how these ideas clash and are fully incompatible, making sense only to your mind.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
They make sense according to the Gospel and John the Holy Spirit although I have to thank for your comments because I havn't thought of these things in quite a while.
sizzle2 3 years ago
Dear sizzle2,
I remember a time when the world being flat made sense to many, many stories decisions and scrolls were written in that respect, because it made "sense", even though it was completely illogical. I also remember when talking snakes, burning bushes, talismans, gods, ghosts, purgatories and magical stories made sense to our feeble human minds.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
True worship of God requires not superstition in fact it's the anti-thesis. And it was the Christians who discovered that the world was round. The Jesuits I think. Half the known planets and celestial bodies were discovered and named by Jesuits and all physical creation reflects God's nature very blatantly.
sizzle2 3 years ago
Dear sizzle2,
You said:
"all physical creation reflects God's nature very blatantly"
Please help me to understand how God's nature explain the horrifying suffering caused by the brutality of natural abortions?
Why is there cancer and horrible suffering caused by genes, a product of God's own design? Why would we blame all this on a perfect entity? There is no blame. He did not intervine in this way, because he is a product of our minds to explain our reality and circumstances and give hope.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
As we put our hopes on imaginary entities of our own creation (to which we assign flawed characteristics such as hate, punishment, vengeance, love, jealousy) to explain primarily who we are, why we're here and where we're going, eventually all sorts of flaws become apparent when new truths are understood and discovered.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
because of sin. Sin is where God is not, where God is contradicted, the contradiction of God is death. Cancer and all physical things are a manifestation of some physical reality and everything God does is to bring everybody back to himself through Christ for eternal happiness. I dont know why he does things the way he does. I dont question his methods. Why a Cross? These are things present that are outside of the divine nature like a sick and twisted tree.
sizzle2 3 years ago
(continued)
Many things made sense back then, that make no sense today. We're trying to make sense of this world and it is hard to tell what is likely true vs that which is not. By observing, we've devised a wonderful tool, called the scientific method which helps us in this quest for truth. I thank you for taking time to talk to me too. We're both humbly learning and re-learning about ourselves, the physics of the Universe and the nature of reality itself. It is a beautiful quest indeed.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Well, you really have to include what you call "imperfection" in the context of a larger Perfection. Since it is possible to lie, for instance, lies exist within the realm of possibility. Therefore any "perfection" that excluded lies would thus deny certain possibilities, and thus remain "imperfect." Perfection thus of necessity has to deal with all realities.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
@Apocryphile1979:
"you really have to include what you call imperfection in the context of a larger perfection"?
You're saying imperfection is required for Pefection. If you think about it, you're saying Perfection must be imperfect. Why not just flat out say there is no such thing as perfection?
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Since it is possible for falsehoods and sicknesses and poverty and pain, etc, to exist, no existence would be "Perfect" without taking these things into account. You must allow for "Perfection" to WORK OUT "Imperfection." Not to deny it, but to deal with it. This is God's JUDGMENT. This is exactly what the Bible says that God intends to do.
Apocryphile1970 3 years ago
@Apocryphile1970
According to most beliefs in godlike creators, all things are created by god. All things made possible by its will. So if falsehood, sickness, poverty and pain exist, we are forced to conclude he allowed them to be a possibility. Even if the event happens as a result of the exercise of will by one of his creations, these terrible events are only possible within the realms of possibilities he has created. Seems like a flawed human concept, rather than a godlike superintelligence.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
@Apocryphile1970
This doesn't mean at all that there is zero possibility that the Universe could've been created or designed by some form of superintelligence, however, the attributes we have been assigning have been proven awfully human-centric, short-sighted, naive and close-minded. More often than major "truths" have been found to be wrong within the texts written by humans on these "holy books" subjects. I'd take what the Bible and any other book says with a grain of salt.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Also, even if there is a possibility that the Universe could've been created by a higher superintelligence, it doesn't mean at all that it is probable. All the evidence points the other way around. No design. Just order emerging out of chaos, the evolution of information on a Universal scale. No perfection exists, only a race to increasing levels of order.
So far, the holy books were inaccurate. They missed evolution, skipped the scientific method, thought the world as flat and immovable, etc.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
sizzle2:
You say evolution is numerically impossible, yet if you believe in God you believe everything is possible to God.
If God were to have used evolution and order emerging out of chaos to create the Universe and everything within it, then you would be wrong. If that were the case, you would be denying God's own godly omnipotence.
thoughtwaretv 3 years ago
Man, that was not only eye opening, or suspenseful, but inspirational as well. Great work... I will be waiting for the next one.
KPZ2U 3 years ago 5