And of course, we all know the best way to defeat an ideology is miltary warfare. And of course we all know as well that ideology bound by territory. And that there's no better way to promote freedom than by invading a country and violently overthrowing regimes. How people rally behind such logic in the 21st century is beyond me
Bush, you do not answer the question. And using freedom to fight tyranny? Is the Patriot Act using freedom? Is Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib incidents using freedom? Is having a large list of terrorists most of them who are not, using freedom? Where is freedom in your ideology? Where?!!!
Timeline: Saddam invades Kuwait... Saddam moves troops to the Saudi Arabia border...we kick his butt out of Kuwait before he can think about going elsewhere... Perhaps the world couldve saved alot of lives had they done... after Germany's invasion of Poland.. what we did after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait... more comparisons to follow.....
You're going to compare Saddam to Hitler?!?!?!?! Genius! I'm sure Saddam likes that. He was a two-bit thug. Your jackets must have the sleeves that tie in the back, or you must put peanuts on your penis...cause YOU'RE FUCKING NUTS!
How dare I? Dont I know that comparisons to Hitler are the exclusive province of the frothing-at-the-mouth Bush-haters???? What GALL I have!!! I see your point, Hitler was 3bit corporal... hardly comparable to a 2bit thug.
@Bolgernow As for you Bolgernow. Thank you for leaving a comment on my channel. I was going to return the favour but you have blocked me from leaving a return comment on your channel after you left yours. What a self absorbed chicken shit faggot you are. You can be found bitch.
Ahem. At the time Germany invaded Poland, U.S. was being led by conservatives like Coolridge and Harvey. It was FDR who broke U.S. isolationism by establishing for the first time ever, U.S. PEACETIME draft. Don't ever forget that. Conservatives only "defend" when there is money or profit to be gained for themselves and their corporate buddies.
Naaaaaw, just trying to post this "I believe the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that, if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," said General John Abizaid, head of US Central Command"
Anti-semitism has taken on a new meaning, it began as a hatred for Judaism, but then begun a change to anti-jews;Im not an anti-semitist;I feel for the jews and how they've been persecuted throughout the ages; but what they are doing is just, WRONG.
USA = Pro Israeli. They supplied the F-16's to kill Lebanese. Jews were INJECTED into PALESTINE BY ENGLAND. Israeli's then began to OPPRESS the Palestinians which is why the fuckin Pal's are trying to fight back. You fuckin sheep need to learn the story. Palestinians are practically defenseless -Hezbollah is trying to free it's people from Tyranny. Look that shit up - you'll find out how BRAINWASHED you are. Israel is violation a UN resolution of 1967.
I read up on PNAC long ago. You flatter yourself, presuming that you are introducing me to something new. It's a horse that has long since been beaten to death. As I recall their statements were quite prescient and were legitimate concerns that I actually happen to share.
Then you should know what the PFTNAC states "• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values • we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad." You just proved every single point about Bush's current failing foreign policy. Thank you.
What? No snappy comeback Engager? Is that because our own military disagree's with you? They seem to accept what's happening on the ground. I'm NOT happy about where things are at and deeply want Iraq to succeed. The only way to make things better is to look at things as they are, not as we want them to be.
Bolgernow, Ive never made the case that that this has been or will be an easy road & neither has the administration for that matter. I certainly am glad that you are not happy about the state of affairs in Iraq, though IMO that puts you at odds with the mainstream media & the Dems who seem to rejoice and revel in every bit of bad news that comes out of Iraq, while remaining virtually silent when it comes to bad news.
I will grant you that this is a piece from early 2005, but that serves to prove my point.... if the news back then, was that skewed and that same old drum beaten incessantly for 3 straight years what other effect on America's collective psyche.. than a negative one
And you may just want to watch any of the others so that u may continue to believe the opinion that all is lost there. http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2005/fax20051213.asp
Read it all. Please don't spit on my cookie and call it sugar. While some say the media has a bias, this site has a severe conservative bias. I tend to lean toward independent media. BBC, NPR, CNN, Yahoo AP, Time, The Guardian UK, Chicago Sun-Times, etc. The shareholders who control these outlets are from ALL parties which doesn't allow the message to be controlled.
Now why would the MRC have any bias? After all, they're only "Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues". Not a credible source Engager.
Understand you, but totally disaree. You remember, "The insurgency is in it's last throws", "Mission accomplished", and "We will be greeted as liberators"? This war was sold as an easy victory by this adminstation. We all want a stable Iraq, but we need to adapt, overcome, but that can only happen by accepting reality. That's something this adminstation is NOT willing to do. Don't take my word for it, listen to Chuck Hagel:
Be honest Bolgernow, did you read the piece I just linked or just sluf it off as another puff piece by a GOP GI? It probably just illuminates the actual
"GOOD" happening in that country & just doesnt fit the template Im argueing. You want me to admit the negatives in Iraq which I have never denied, while you & the rest of the Bush-haters absolutely refuse to acknowledge any positive.
Read LTC Tim Ryan, Commander of Task Force 2-12 Cavalry's editoral. You can hear his, yours, and Laura Ingraham arguement here. The only problem is the rest of country tends not to agree with your assessment
Know what I saw from that lil MSNBC piece? Shows me that the media is finally getting called on it's agenda driven reporting and methinks THEY doeth protest too much... their uber defensive reaction was far greater than even this cynic couldve imagined. Seems the President struck a nerve... IMO well overdue. Imagine that, you go to the media being condemned and supply me with THEIR reaction to the indictment.... sigh
I find it incredibly ironic that you would supply that link as a reply to my mediaresearch link... arbitrarily deem mine "Not a credible source" when my source tells me yours isnt a "credible source"
"The only problem is the rest of country tends not to agree with your assessment" Though this cynic has grown very dubious of polls, if those numbers bare any semblance of truth... Im not at all surprised that the same public who have been bombarded with negativity for 3 years, would see things "negatively".
Im also amazed at the gall it shows when one would rather point to a dubious poll, taken by dubious organization (CBS news), to critique itself after having it's fairness called into question.... than accept the account of a professional soldier who's served first hand in the war this whole debate is over.
You link to heavily biased Conservative websites, think the media and Democrats are responsible for the problems in Iraq, and are cynical of polls from anyone not subscribing to your personal beliefs. I'm neither Democrat(twhinny, and never solve anything) nor Republican. I'm an American in search of a good man and administration to run our great country that seems to have lost its way somewhere in the Middle East. Your slanted partisan hackery is reaching new heights.
ahem, you think pick yourself up out of the gutter, dispense with the name-calling, show a little more maturity and return some civility to our little debate?
Make no mistake, we're not debating. You want so badly for me to be the OTHER side for you and I won't. Would of liked to listen to your ideas of this foreign policy and why you thinks it's so great, and maybe share some problems I have with it, but that's just not possible with you. You are so lost in SIDES, you couldn't find your ass in the dark with both hands and a flashlight...you're just kind of...well, an ass!
Debate: To engage in argument by discussing opposing points. "You want so badly for me to be the OTHER side for you & I won't" Are you saying we agree???????
We've done nothing but disagree. What the heck would you call a week long dialogue such as we've had? Youre a Bush-hater & I while I dont agree with him on everything, believe he is doing what is in the best interests of our nations security. Youve attempted to enlighten me just as I have you. walks & quacks like a duck, must be a DUCK!
"You want me to admit the negatives in Iraq which I have never denied, while you & the rest of the Bush-haters absolutely refuse to acknowledge any positive." That quote was a subtle solicitation for any acknowledgement of positives from you... I asked first ;)
Subtle? Questions end in a question mark. Why would you even make this statement that you subtly asked me for positives FIRST? Look, I really don't give a shit buddy. Think what you want, how you want, and when you want. I really don't care. Playing mind games isn't my idea of fun...
See what you want to see, feel however you need to feel. It's your call. When I look around, I see an experimental foreign policy that's failing. I'd rather it didn't but Democracy CAN NOT come from the barrel of America's guns. It must be choosen. Don't listen to me, listen to JFK who said it best:
You are THE most ignorant fuck on the planet! Perhaps, you should bend over, pull, and wait for the POP! Japan LOST WWII with Germany and Italy. The result, Democracy! WE did not attack them and force it upon them. We defended the world against a man INVADING every country. Now you're trying to re-writing history to your liking. You're not worth wiping my ass with...
LMAO, man! you dont take confrontations with the truth very well! OH YEAH!!! youre right!! Germany and Italy are still democracies as well ;) But sir I must point out... your logic dictates "It must be chosen!!" So are you contending that Hitler & the axis powers "chose" to start the 2nd world war so we would bring democracy at the barrel of our guns? No! of course you are not!!
Dumbfuck! You don't even understand the difference between World War II and our invasion/occupation of Iraq. You see them as the SAME THING. One was stopping another nation allied with Japan and Italy from overtaking the world. The other was the pre-emptive invasion of another country that DID not attack us soley to spread Democracy to the Muslim world. Someone else please tell Corkey here he's an idot, I'm sick and tired of this insane shit!
Please reread how I framed the comparison. While I do believe we are presently engaged in the initial battles of world war 3, I am quite aware that these are two distinctly different wars in more ways than 1. The main reason for my comparison was to blow a gapeing hole in your "freedom by the barrel of a gun" theory.
Show me, in the history of America, where we pre-emptively invaded another free nation, who did not attack us, occupy them, and force Democracy upon them? Until then, any comparision you make is fucking retarded...
Show me where in our history we have faced an enemy so cowardly as to purposely target civilians, then run and hide.. in caves, in bunkers under schools, behind their "religion", who wear no uniform, care nothing about taking their own lives so long as they can take a few "infidels" with them. On 9-11 THEY redefined war! Not us! In this nuclear age we no longer have the luxury of waiting for them to carry out their next attack!!!.....
This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the not-so-fanatical muslim as well as a military campaign. Unfortunately a large percentage of Americans cant see through the media's agenda-driven reporting which has but one all-consuming mission.... GET BUSH OUT! Damn the costs! Damn the consequences in the war against islamofacists.. BUSH is the threat.. Your side may well win this battle in the war for public opinion.. but it will cost MANY MORE INNOCENT LIVES in the end
That's conjecture and baseless lies. Tell yourself Democrats rape kittens, and the media is run by Satan trying to fuck your brain. I could careless how you rationalize things or what color the sky is in your world. You're eventually going to have to deal with this failed foreign policy in Iraq at some point. Blaming the media and Dems for Iraq is like blaming a neighbor for not mowing your lawn.
Vietnam. This recklessly arrogant administration didn't learn a single thing from history and our brave men and women in uniform are now paying for that mistake with their lives.
Tell ya what sport, I tried to have a civil discourse with ya, but it seems all you can do is call names, wallow in the gutter, so... you just carry on your merry way... I shouldve known better than to attempt to carry on a civilized debate with one who thinks.. a film of himself dancing buck naked in front of his bathroom mirror.. is entertainment or amusing.
"Sport"? Why not Chief, Pal, Tiger, Skipper, Chum, or Buster? Judge my work however you'd like. Rip it, mock it, disagree with it...I really don't care, you're not my audience and should express yourself anyway you like. Now you can find someone else's throat to shove your beliefs down, belittle with sarcasm, twist their words/posts to your liking, change history, only use "talking points", and never answer their questions while constantly asking your own...
I chose "sport", for it's innocuousness, because I unlike you, to the end... attempted to keep it civil, rather than resort to name-calling. You continue to misrepresent fact, propagandize, spout revisionist history and join the chorus of Bush-bashers all ya like... I choose to think for myself and arrive at judgements via unbiased and non-agenda-driven news sources and through lessons learned from history... Buh-bye
When you call someone "Sport", it's condescending. You're talking down to me. I'm actually amazed you'd even try to lie about it. Since we don't know each other, and I don't care what you think of me, it's laughable. When faced with facts about Iraq, you blame the Media, the Dems, or Bush haters. Hubris will ultimately be your undoing. You seem like a really nice person; you just act like a stroke when debating. Take care :) (I truly mean that)
"As I recall". BUT YOU DIDN'T. You didn't recall ANYTHING did ya? You posted nothing about it except "I read up on the (by the way it's) PFTNAC long ago. If you were a 7th grader in class, you'd be flunked by now for bs'ing and being overly vauge.
Hey Genius, Google PFTNAC, then try PNAC & tell me which gets you better results. You wanna play hardball & continually attempt to insult my intelligence, you best move out of your glass house. You once again put your colossal ignorance on display for all to see, by quibbling over an acronym! You presume to correct me when you obviously dont have a clue! I suppose you & I live in the USOA rather than the USA, I suppose Pamela Anderson is a member of PFTETOA rather than PETA! Talk about BS!
"You didn't recall ANYTHING did ya?" Oh my what arrogance! You a mind-reader now as well? You honestly believe I wouldve added "their statements were quite prescient and were legitimate concerns that I actually happen to share." to it if I had no idea what it said????
Purple fingers ROFL!! They are far outnumbered these days by the purple corpses piling up in Iraq thanks to Bushhole's fascist military misadventure! But hey, keep deluding yourself, Engorger - and when the US pulls its second round of "helicopters fleeing Saigon" I'll be here to ram my purple finger into your chest and tell you I TOLD YOU SO.
You can't have civil discourse tool box. You have to be rational to have it. You're not. You listen to no one here, only debate, tear down, and prematurely discredit. You didn't even look up Project for The New American Century did you? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw, why would you? Look under Statement of Principals at who signed it in 1997. Cheney, Rummy, Wolfawitz, etc. Who's in power now? F'ing READ and learn something before you attempt to talk down to people
Because I dont see things the way you do, you deem me irrational. Because you fail to sway me with your editorial conjecture presented as "fact", you say I dont listen. Because I didnt acknowledge the Bush-haters favorite dead horse PNAC, you assume I arbitrarily arrive at my opinions without the benefit of research. Where is this tolerance and open-mindedness you people profess and presume to preach to others about??
"Sway YOU?" Give me a f@cking break. That's the point. You decision on what things are and will be has already been made. What possible facts do you have to support your cause other than "Clinton did this", or "because I believe it to be true". That's not support, that's blinding ignorance.
"You can't have civil discourse tool box. You have to be rational to have it. You're not. You listen to no one here, only debate, tear down, and prematurely discredit." Oh I am sorry! Ive always thought "civil discourse" meant a polite, interactive, exchange of ideas, free of name-calling, etc, etc. I actually believed discourse was another way of saying "debate" Maybe I should check the dictionary first next time!!
You say things with no proof. You don't answer peoples questions when they answer yours with links. You discredit the links with nothing more than " your supposed "facts" were unable to support what were in reality, statements of opinion rather than "facts". You debate with nothing more than "Clinton did this", or " That's not true". I could careless. You're going to have to deal with the person in the mirror when things are said and done. It has nothing to do with me or others.
You guys are wasting your time with fools like this "Engorger". They are Bushista persoality cultists, sometimes hiding behind their time in the military to shut down any debate. They are still obsessed with Clinton's penis, and blind to the fact that Bushhole and his Reichmasters are driving this nation into a dish. Laugh at them. They are a dwindling breed, thank God, and will soon be swept out of power so that we can begin to repair the enormous damage they have caused.
This is a response PresidentWar, though Ive given up on receiving a thought-provoking response from him. Notice how when people of his ilk are flummoxed by actual intelligent discourse, they resort to the usual name-calling & sophomoric hyperbole. The only intelligible thing you said is so far offbase I'm forced to dignify it with a response: I relish debate, good "military" men died for this right. I have no desire to dishonor those who sacrificed their lives by "shutting down" debate.
it's unfortunate that Bush Cheney rumsfield rove etc have somehow endeared themselves to the military & their families. They are not good ol boys, working class, or soldiers. None of them have ever "fought" for anything.
Perhaps you need to travel over to Ogrish.com and see what these Muslims do as they saw off the heads of their bound victims. They praise God. Believe me, these guys don't want peace, that is why they continue to slaughter men, women AND innocent children in Iraq. Today....a soccer field was targeted to kill UNARMED people and Muslims are not protesting the deaths of children and THE OBVIOUS need to make America the guilty one and to make more pictures of hate. You need to wake up.
I think after a while, people just thought the government would stay on top of it, except that the trusts have bought gov. I don't even have a problem with Hallburton & subs, but no one even blinked when Bush and Rumsfield starting bidding basic functions of the military.
or we might reasonably expect our elected public officials to make their points understandably? where is that conservative value of having people be accountable? lol
yup, we're just a bunch of brain-dead fools, who hate america, and want our children to be educated by the taliban. And they had the nerve to call us "reality-based" !! What nonsense, we're fully as capable as conservatives of following an uninformed leader and/or a set of misguided ideologically-based policies !!
i don't think your Chamberlain reference makes much sense! Was invading Afganistan a smart response? How about Iraq? The Taliban appears to be reinvigorated in Afghanistan. Now what? What if the problem is not about vigorous vs. non-vigorous responses, as continually gets argued? What if it is about being smart and culturally aware? Shall we just drop a series of monster bombs everywhere a terrorist might be hiding?? I think we might have a problem .. .
Well, i think the Russians may have had a more principled, if misguided, view, lol. We, on the other hand, want democracies so we can conveniently and safely market to their populations. I like to think that following the money is a useful strategy when inquiring about people's behaviors .. . it's that old standby: neo-colonial economic imperialism at work.
Now, if only Hamas would play ball, and admit they are the (only) bad guys. H was democratically elected by the Palestinian people. China and Russia have refused to call it a terrorist organization. Exactly what is the correct perception of reality? Maybe it is not quite so clearcut??
name-calling is the province of, er, name-callers! arguments should stand or fall on their own merits. most people at the time (of the Iraq invasion) believed we were in great danger from SH, no matter how ignorant that may sound now. so were we all stupid? sure seems like it . .
It's hard to determine a root cause from a dead guy! No matter, Cheney has advised us not to "do therapy" on terrorists! So, let's avoid the best advice of military science (see information theories of war), martial arts (Aikido and understanding the POV of your opponent) and policework (e.g., profiling a serial killer): we should stenuously avoid understanding the motivations of our enemy! (shhh, I sound as if I want to give them an excuse, to legitimize them **sticks head back in sand**)
First off, I want to thank you Engager. You served your country well and we are all pround of you and your brothers amazing courge. Thanks, will never be enough. Your leaders, your governement, and our president let you down. You did everything right, followed orders, and should be congratuatled and honored. It is this adminstation I hold accountable for not treating our brave men and women in uniform as the amazing asset they are. Not some pawn on the worlds chess board.
Thank you for your expression of gratitude for that which I considered an Honor as well as a Duty. Our previous President IMO did in fact let me down.. When in Somalia, he felt a mission was important enough to send my brothers in arms into harms way, but as soon as the inevitable casualties of combat happened... he lost his spine, yanked my brothers in arms out before the mission was accomplished and basically told those who watched friends die... they died in vain
Those links provided no support for your "10 years or longer/permenant" assertions of "fact" that I took issue with. The rise in troop levels: Another catch 22... Democrat mouthpieces say "He didnt send enough to get the job done" all while others say "we need to pull them out now" Typical "I would of done it smarter", 20/20 hindsight, backseat driving, monday morning quarterback doublespeak.
Thank you for your expression of gratitude for that which I considered an Honor as well as a Duty. Our previous President IMO did in fact let me down.. When in Somalia, he felt a mission was important enough to send my brothers in arms into harms way, but as soon as the inevitable casualties of combat happened... he lost his spine, yanked my brothers in arms out before the mission was accomplished and basically told those who watched friends die... they died in vain
This President, thus far has shown that he understands that if at the onset... a mission is worth the inevitable casualties it will cause, then it is worth seeing it through to it's completion. Thereby avoiding the ultimate slap in the face to the fighting man... ultimates sacrifices made, being made in vain.
"Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice declined on Wednesday to rule out American forces still being needed in Iraq a decade from now." Condi's estimate good enough for you? This is the LAST time I'm linking facts for you. It's up to YOU to find them, read them, and learn. I don't have all F'ing day to educate you. Thanks:)
I'm sorry you are so presumptuous as to believe that you need to spend all "F'ing day" to educate me. Im also sorry that you in effect wasted your whole "F'ing" day dredging up what are some of the poorest examples of "fact" I have ever seen represented as such. She "declined to rule out" somehow makes a metamorphosis into a factual estimate?? Dear lord man, listen to yourself.
The administration has repeated drawn the line at setting any sort of definate timetable.
"I don't know how to speculate about what will happen 10 years from now, but I do believe that we are moving on a course on which Iraqi security forces are rather rapidly able to take care of their own security concerns," Rice responded.
She said NOTHING. It means NOTHING. She's saying, "I don't know cause I'm not going to be around." She also toes the company line nicely by saying "I do believe that we are moving on a course on which Iraqi security forces are rather rapidly able to take care of their own security concern". So when? When are they going to be ready? Oh yeah, WE DON'T F'ING KNOW!!!
Poorest facts according to whom? You asked. I gave. Give me a F'ing break buddy. You're bias, and incabible of listening to others, sharing, and having an open dialouge. Look at your posts. What you ""firmly believe to be true, and trumpet with passion" are "talking points". Look them up on any Neo-Con site. Weak, and sad. Only 37% of Americans have ANY confidence in this nutjob. Sorry you're a dumbass in that 37%...
nut job?? the president?? why? because you hate freedom, helping those who have less than us, and fighting for an oppressed people?? you want we should let evil reign, and come after your family?? what is he done that you disaprove of? attacking an idealogy that killed our neighbors?? Or have you forgotten??
Perhaps you can tell me why we don't free Cuba, North Korea, Someila, Rowanda, and many more opressive regiems? Don't they all want to be free? Revolution comes from within, not by the gunbarrel of someone else. I would love to help people who want to be free, but is it OUR job to free the world? Are we super hero's now? What about the poor in our own country?
Last time I checked, we broke from England to be FREE. Canada didn't start a war FOR us. Just study history and you'll see that why what looks to be a noble cause is impossible. Don't confuse "trying to bring freedom to Iraq" with "making us safer" in Bush's mind. Freedom for many is a result of Bush attempting to snuff out Saddam and the Baath party. While that's a great thing, now we have civil war between Sunni and Shiite.
Ummm, who called them the poorest "facts"?? I did. 1st question answered. When I called you.. on your supposed "facts" you were still unable to support what were in reality, statements of opinion rather than "facts". Were you to present those "facts" in a court of law you would be laughed out of the courtroom. I asked if those were your "facts".. why? because I couldnt believe you honestly expected anyone other the the most naive among us to gobble them up just as you represented them.
"We'll have 100,000+ troops there for 10 years & longer." That sir is not a "FACT" The Dr. Rice link you provided in support of this non-fact, was no more "fact" than the first, simply a refusal to answer a leading question and then editorial conjecture over the lack of denial. "over 60 permanent military bases" another misleading non-fact.. The "PERMENANT" in that phrase is nothing more than editorial conjecture as well.
Clinton made HUGE mistakes. But this wasn't about Clinton, was it? This was about Bush. Is your anger towards Clinton seems to cloud your judgement against the current sitution.
Here's some "facts" for you. 1) I never claimed to be UN-biased. 2)I rarely comment on spelling but since you called me a "dumbass".. Im the "dumbass" who can correctly spell "incapable" and "dialogue" 3)I notice you didnt touch my Somalia post with a 10 ft pole. You asked for the basis of my deeply held beliefs.. Ive a passion for history and learning from the lessons it provides us. I provided a factual slice of history that serves as just one of the many basis for my deeply held beliefs.
Poorest facts according to whom? Apparently according to you as well, you supplied the Dr Rice link, attempted to represent it as a factual estimate, and then YOU had this to say about it.."She said NOTHING. It means NOTHING. She's saying, "I don't know cause I'm not going to be around." :)
If you just want to argue please get a wife, or buy a jacket and join a debate team. Please look at the context of those things you just stated. They are compeletely SEPERATE statements:)
You are correct, thats a response to a much earlier post. I was reading because "reading is fun" & that just jumped off the page at me & I couldnt ignore it or let it go without pointing it out, because as much as anything, I enjoy exposing disingenuousness. Already got a wife, and got her thinking my way as well. :)
Why not look at what Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) last week called Iraq "an absolute replay of Vietnam." Rep. Gil Gutknecht (R-Minn.) recently returned from Iraq with a call for U.S. troops to pull out.
I actually agree with Hagel to a degree... the Democrats have taken a page from the Vietnam playbook and made a concerted effort to turn public opinion against this war, with hopes that we lose on the public opinion front, in spite of how many actual lives it costs on the actual combat front.
Well, well... we have another "open-minded" "free-thinker" who rather than engage in the discourse chooses to expose his prejudices and intolerance for divergent opinions with adolescent name-calling.
"Red-stater" I could live with, but Im hardly a redneck, although I would expect the pompous, arrogant, elitist snobs among us to consider the two synonymous.
Oh Engorger for christs sake lpease don't start this "if we dont fight them three we fight them in our streets" bullshit! Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 or UBL. Period. Even your criminal president has been forced to admit that. What you rethugs call the "battle for public opinion" has another name - Josef Goebbels called it the BIG LIE. And aint it something that the neocon warmongers have became so adept at Nazi tactics? FITTING, sez I!
Whew! PresidentWar... you are a piece of work. Do try to breath deeply, quell your anger and hatred to the point where you will at least be able to make some sense with what you are attempting to say. If you doubt the "taking the fight to them" strategem, and believe that us just chasing them out of Afghanistan was going to solve our terrorism problem, your mentality frankly scares me. Furthermore, I dont recall anyone attempting to say Iraq had anything to do with 9-11.
We could re-hash should we be there or not till the cows come home... but it wont change the fact that we are there.... how about dealing with that reality?
Tell ya what, Engorger - as soon as you extricate yourself from your time machine and realize that Bill Clinton is no longer president - your living TURD of a human being GEORGE BUSH is - then we'll attempt to have a serious discussion on the subject. Until then I relegate your comments to the receptacle they very much deserve....the one with a flush handle on it.
Oh my! Arent you just the cleverest little adolescent name caller, if I didnt know better I'd think you were one of those mean spirited, hate filled republicans your ilk attempts to brand us all as. Im beginning to wonder if a serious discussion sans the name calling is possible with someone of your... "debating caliber"......
Those who ignore or could care less about history's lessons are destined to repeat them, therefore a "serious discussion" of the subject of terrorism is incomplete without referencing the glaring mistakes made by the previous administration. SO... if you choose to ignore history.. woe be unto you, I however choose to take seriously the lessons provided by the true incompetence that got us in the dire straits in which we find ourselves.
When our enemy number 1... OBL refers specifically to our spineless reaction to bloodshed such as happened in Mogadishu and causes him to conclude that we Americans dont have the resolve to endure the necessary casualties to defeat them... Then this concerned American and apparently our President... takes notice and learns from those lessons so painfully provided by your darlings....
So here's a serious question for anybody to answer: What exactly does Bush mean when he says that freedom and liberty are our weapons? It brings a chilling feeling to peoples' gut, but how the hell is allowing Israel to destroy Lebanon a means of spreading freedom and liberty?
By the way, myth buster: America is a Democracy. No, silly, it's a representative REPUBLIC. Democracy is rule by the common people. We're ruled by law and a constitution (maybe not so much anymore).
Good job, President Bush. You just supported Israel in their destruction of your most shining example of your foreign policy of creating Arab democratic state, and through your blind support of Israel's military campaigns, permitted the Arab nations to be more unified in their hatred for Israel and the United States. Thanks, I feel more secure now.
ARSEnishizawa, go fuck yourself. "Cut and run" is rightwing-ese for "our egos are more important than the shit mess we created with the Iraq farce. Thankfully, the majority of Americans are with me on this one. If you wanna fight terrorism, stop supporting the Bush Reich - which makes more of them every day.
OH now there's an intelligent response, put alot of thought into that one didnt you. Being a proud right-winger "cut and run" is rightwing-ese for lets not make the same mistake that Bill Clinton made in Mogadishu and in effect tell the islamofascists we Americans dont have the fortitude to stay in a fight once our nose gets bloodied a bit...
Lets just let all future terrorist know... if you want to beat America... all you gotta do is lure them into a fight, hide behind civilians to maximize civilian casualties, kill a few of her soldiers and then sit back wait on her liberal press and the Democrats to do their level best to destroy any unity that may have existed when they were initially lured into the fight.
You might think it's an easy decision, but when someone lures you into anything, beware. They have the upper hand in their own back yard and have thought this out. Be smarter than them, not as ignorant.
Our douche bag adminstation choose to fight 1st instead of crippling their economy, boycotting trade, and forcing "disarmament". Only use war as a last resort, not 1st.
Bolgernow, perhaps "lure" was the wrong choice of words. I suppose "provoked" wouldve provided a more accurate description of what 9-11 did. Regarding their "backyard".. I suppose you would rather have this war take place in "OUR BACKYARD"?? Tell me.. did they end up with the upper hand in Afghanistan? and Iraq.. do you believe they are killing more of us than we are killing of them?
The only way we will lose this war is in the battle for public opinion... Unfortunately the terrorists have some powerful allies in this battle in the form of our very own mainstream media and even more heinous.. the Democrat party..who in their fervor to regain power chose to play politics with American soldiers lives.
Do not confuse 9/11 with Iraq Engager. One has NOTHING to do with the other. With Afghanistan, we had the worlds support, then lost it with the invasion of Iraq.
We're doing well in Iraq? Wow, best you take a peek over there and hear from people who've been there. You are incredibly mistaken this has anything to do with the media, or the Democratic party. Save your talking points for Bill O'Reilly.
No confusion whatsoever on my part sir, do you disagree that all parties involved believe Iraq to now be the central front in war against Islamofascists?? Pragmatism tells me, thats not such a bad thing! How we are doing in Iraq all depends on whom you choose to believe. I have listened to many POSITIVE testimonies from returning vets as well as some still in country.
I've heard POSITIVE things said about the KKK, that argument doesn't fly. Our military timetables don't reflect yours or the administrations stable Iraq pitcure. We'll have 100,000+ troops there for 10 years & longer. We added & are around 137,000 troops now, & over 60 permanent military bases. Sound "safe" to you? Please watch "BattleGround: 21 Days on the Empire's Edge". Gives amazing insight into the people of a complex region.
And Ive heard negative things said about Dr Martin Luther King, the Pope, and Jesus Christ... now how does prove the NEGATIVES that you have heard are any more true than my POSITIVES? Huhhhh? Imagine that... things didnt go exactly as planned... IN A WAR!!!! Thats NEVER happened before!!!! How dare this President not foretell every little bit of adversity we might face!!!
In this American's humble opinion, the press and the democrats have emboldened the enemy, prolonged this war and COSTED AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES! all in the name of politics, regaining power and I for 1 will never forgive them.
That's not an opinion. Those are factless acusations called talking points. Opinions are loosely based on facts and great to have. While I understand yours, you choose not to tolerate others which is sad, and almost McCarthyish. Blaming the press, and Democrats for prolonging this war is retarded. We invaded another country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.
If you are an American you are well within your right to say whatever you wish. Good Americans gave their lives that you might have that right. Your and my words dont carry the same weight as the mainstream media or prominent politicians. With the power that they possess with their tongues comes great responsibility. I firmly believe that they have been irresponsible with their words and have costed American lives. You have the right to disagree. :)
"We invaded another country that had nothing to do with 9/11"
"We could re-hash should we be there or not till the cows come home... but it wont change the fact that we are there.... how about dealing with that reality?"
I believe he felt he was doing what was best for our nations security. You do not. All else is just mud in the water. Can we get beyond this and deal with the reality that we are faced with??
While tool box jones thought his actions were best for the country, they turned out to be the exact opposite, which makes us all less safe. That is something we all have to live with, not blame "others" for. Did the media invade Iraq? Did the Democrats invade Iraq? No, please don't pass the buck here. This administration wanted this when it came into power. Please look up the Project For The New American Century. It should explain the current foreign policy very well.
"While (our duely elected president) thought his actions were best for the country..." Do you propose this president or any other should do anything other than what they believe to be in the best interest of our country's national defense????
Freedom and Liberty can fight now? Oh that's probably what he names the bullet and bomb
osmosis1988 5 years ago
Fuck USA go home motherfuckers let the muslims free
eaxu 5 years ago
And of course, we all know the best way to defeat an ideology is miltary warfare. And of course we all know as well that ideology bound by territory. And that there's no better way to promote freedom than by invading a country and violently overthrowing regimes. How people rally behind such logic in the 21st century is beyond me
MangoTjoeb 5 years ago
FUCK MUSLIMS, NUKE THE MOTHER FUCKERS
TKeazy1 5 years ago
yeah..muslims like to be free...so don't go fucking invade their countries...
agungk 5 years ago
he is fucking stupid
saudichick88 5 years ago
Bush, you do not answer the question. And using freedom to fight tyranny? Is the Patriot Act using freedom? Is Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib incidents using freedom? Is having a large list of terrorists most of them who are not, using freedom? Where is freedom in your ideology? Where?!!!
solidkwon 5 years ago
go fuk urselves bitches tryin to take ova the middle east ? u neva will just want our oil fuk u all
blacksab 5 years ago
Timeline: Saddam invades Kuwait... Saddam moves troops to the Saudi Arabia border...we kick his butt out of Kuwait before he can think about going elsewhere... Perhaps the world couldve saved alot of lives had they done... after Germany's invasion of Poland.. what we did after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait... more comparisons to follow.....
TheEngager 5 years ago
You're going to compare Saddam to Hitler?!?!?!?! Genius! I'm sure Saddam likes that. He was a two-bit thug. Your jackets must have the sleeves that tie in the back, or you must put peanuts on your penis...cause YOU'RE FUCKING NUTS!
Bolgernow 5 years ago
How dare I? Dont I know that comparisons to Hitler are the exclusive province of the frothing-at-the-mouth Bush-haters???? What GALL I have!!! I see your point, Hitler was 3bit corporal... hardly comparable to a 2bit thug.
TheEngager 5 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Bolgernow As for you Bolgernow. Thank you for leaving a comment on my channel. I was going to return the favour but you have blocked me from leaving a return comment on your channel after you left yours. What a self absorbed chicken shit faggot you are. You can be found bitch.
Eatm308amA 6 months ago
Ahem. At the time Germany invaded Poland, U.S. was being led by conservatives like Coolridge and Harvey. It was FDR who broke U.S. isolationism by establishing for the first time ever, U.S. PEACETIME draft. Don't ever forget that. Conservatives only "defend" when there is money or profit to be gained for themselves and their corporate buddies.
solidkwon 5 years ago
Naaaaaw, just trying to post this "I believe the sectarian violence is probably as bad as I've seen it, in Baghdad in particular, and that, if not stopped, it is possible that Iraq could move toward civil war," said General John Abizaid, head of US Central Command"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/iraqunrest
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Anti-semitism has taken on a new meaning, it began as a hatred for Judaism, but then begun a change to anti-jews;Im not an anti-semitist;I feel for the jews and how they've been persecuted throughout the ages; but what they are doing is just, WRONG.
FuckinStupidSignup 5 years ago
ONE MORE TIME:
USA = Pro Israeli. They supplied the F-16's to kill Lebanese. Jews were INJECTED into PALESTINE BY ENGLAND. Israeli's then began to OPPRESS the Palestinians which is why the fuckin Pal's are trying to fight back. You fuckin sheep need to learn the story. Palestinians are practically defenseless -Hezbollah is trying to free it's people from Tyranny. Look that shit up - you'll find out how BRAINWASHED you are. Israel is violation a UN resolution of 1967.
FuckinStupidSignup 5 years ago
I read up on PNAC long ago. You flatter yourself, presuming that you are introducing me to something new. It's a horse that has long since been beaten to death. As I recall their statements were quite prescient and were legitimate concerns that I actually happen to share.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Then you should know what the PFTNAC states "• we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values • we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad." You just proved every single point about Bush's current failing foreign policy. Thank you.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Because you say it's "failing" does that then make it fact?
TheEngager 5 years ago
No but I'd say the opinions of our military leaders who've been there do sm@rtass!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/08/04/MNGILKB9KT1.DTL
Bolgernow 5 years ago
youre link didnt work
TheEngager 5 years ago
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/08/04/MNGILKB9KT1.DTL
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Sorry, they moved the link around the site :) This one should work fine!
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/08/04/MNGILKB9KT1.DTL&type=politics
Bolgernow 5 years ago
What? No snappy comeback Engager? Is that because our own military disagree's with you? They seem to accept what's happening on the ground. I'm NOT happy about where things are at and deeply want Iraq to succeed. The only way to make things better is to look at things as they are, not as we want them to be.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Bolgernow, Ive never made the case that that this has been or will be an easy road & neither has the administration for that matter. I certainly am glad that you are not happy about the state of affairs in Iraq, though IMO that puts you at odds with the mainstream media & the Dems who seem to rejoice and revel in every bit of bad news that comes out of Iraq, while remaining virtually silent when it comes to bad news.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/breaking2453389.0680555557.html
TheEngager 5 years ago
"while remaining virtually silent when it comes to bad news." Opps that shouldve been GOOD news
TheEngager 5 years ago
I will grant you that this is a piece from early 2005, but that serves to prove my point.... if the news back then, was that skewed and that same old drum beaten incessantly for 3 straight years what other effect on America's collective psyche.. than a negative one
TheEngager 5 years ago
You might just want to watch FOX NEWS, it might tend to make you happier...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/03/25/AR2005032509137_pf.html
Bolgernow 5 years ago
And you may just want to watch any of the others so that u may continue to believe the opinion that all is lost there. http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2005/fax20051213.asp
TheEngager 5 years ago
sorry I got nothing from either of your 2 last links
TheEngager 5 years ago
ok, got the Hagel link to work... and here's my rebuttal link :)
A man who in spite of a very real danger of losing his Senate seat, adheres to his principled beliefs.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/09/AR2005120901934.html
TheEngager 5 years ago
also I tried my "mediaresearch" link to you, to get it to work you will need to get rid of the space between .a sp at the tail end of the link
http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2005/fax20051213.asp or you could just try this one.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Read it all. Please don't spit on my cookie and call it sugar. While some say the media has a bias, this site has a severe conservative bias. I tend to lean toward independent media. BBC, NPR, CNN, Yahoo AP, Time, The Guardian UK, Chicago Sun-Times, etc. The shareholders who control these outlets are from ALL parties which doesn't allow the message to be controlled.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Now why would the MRC have any bias? After all, they're only "Leaders of America's conservative movement have long believed that within the national news media a strident liberal bias existed that influenced the public's understanding of critical issues". Not a credible source Engager.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Understand you, but totally disaree. You remember, "The insurgency is in it's last throws", "Mission accomplished", and "We will be greeted as liberators"? This war was sold as an easy victory by this adminstation. We all want a stable Iraq, but we need to adapt, overcome, but that can only happen by accepting reality. That's something this adminstation is NOT willing to do. Don't take my word for it, listen to Chuck Hagel:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060806/pl_nm/iraq_usa_hagel_dc_1
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Be honest Bolgernow, did you read the piece I just linked or just sluf it off as another puff piece by a GOP GI? It probably just illuminates the actual
"GOOD" happening in that country & just doesnt fit the template Im argueing. You want me to admit the negatives in Iraq which I have never denied, while you & the rest of the Bush-haters absolutely refuse to acknowledge any positive.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Read LTC Tim Ryan, Commander of Task Force 2-12 Cavalry's editoral. You can hear his, yours, and Laura Ingraham arguement here. The only problem is the rest of country tends not to agree with your assessment
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Countdown-Ingrah.mov
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Know what I saw from that lil MSNBC piece? Shows me that the media is finally getting called on it's agenda driven reporting and methinks THEY doeth protest too much... their uber defensive reaction was far greater than even this cynic couldve imagined. Seems the President struck a nerve... IMO well overdue. Imagine that, you go to the media being condemned and supply me with THEIR reaction to the indictment.... sigh
TheEngager 5 years ago
I find it incredibly ironic that you would supply that link as a reply to my mediaresearch link... arbitrarily deem mine "Not a credible source" when my source tells me yours isnt a "credible source"
http://www.mediaresearch.org/realitycheck/2006/fax20060627.asp
TheEngager 5 years ago
"The only problem is the rest of country tends not to agree with your assessment" Though this cynic has grown very dubious of polls, if those numbers bare any semblance of truth... Im not at all surprised that the same public who have been bombarded with negativity for 3 years, would see things "negatively".
TheEngager 5 years ago
Im also amazed at the gall it shows when one would rather point to a dubious poll, taken by dubious organization (CBS news), to critique itself after having it's fairness called into question.... than accept the account of a professional soldier who's served first hand in the war this whole debate is over.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Not to mention the results of this poll trumpeted by a dubious news anchor
TheEngager 5 years ago
You link to heavily biased Conservative websites, think the media and Democrats are responsible for the problems in Iraq, and are cynical of polls from anyone not subscribing to your personal beliefs. I'm neither Democrat(twhinny, and never solve anything) nor Republican. I'm an American in search of a good man and administration to run our great country that seems to have lost its way somewhere in the Middle East. Your slanted partisan hackery is reaching new heights.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
What mistakes has this adminstation made in the handling of Iraq?
Bolgernow 5 years ago
What good things has this administration brought about by it's handling of Iraq?
TheEngager 5 years ago
Nice touch douche, don't answer my question but ask your own. Sorry, quid pro quo Clarice...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
ahem, you think pick yourself up out of the gutter, dispense with the name-calling, show a little more maturity and return some civility to our little debate?
TheEngager 5 years ago
you think (you could) pick.....
TheEngager 5 years ago
Make no mistake, we're not debating. You want so badly for me to be the OTHER side for you and I won't. Would of liked to listen to your ideas of this foreign policy and why you thinks it's so great, and maybe share some problems I have with it, but that's just not possible with you. You are so lost in SIDES, you couldn't find your ass in the dark with both hands and a flashlight...you're just kind of...well, an ass!
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Debate: To engage in argument by discussing opposing points. "You want so badly for me to be the OTHER side for you & I won't" Are you saying we agree???????
We've done nothing but disagree. What the heck would you call a week long dialogue such as we've had? Youre a Bush-hater & I while I dont agree with him on everything, believe he is doing what is in the best interests of our nations security. Youve attempted to enlighten me just as I have you. walks & quacks like a duck, must be a DUCK!
TheEngager 5 years ago
You're a masterdebater!
If it smells like sack of shit, looks like a sack of shit, then it must BE a sack of shit...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
"You want me to admit the negatives in Iraq which I have never denied, while you & the rest of the Bush-haters absolutely refuse to acknowledge any positive." That quote was a subtle solicitation for any acknowledgement of positives from you... I asked first ;)
TheEngager 5 years ago
Subtle? Questions end in a question mark. Why would you even make this statement that you subtly asked me for positives FIRST? Look, I really don't give a shit buddy. Think what you want, how you want, and when you want. I really don't care. Playing mind games isn't my idea of fun...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
See what you want to see, feel however you need to feel. It's your call. When I look around, I see an experimental foreign policy that's failing. I'd rather it didn't but Democracy CAN NOT come from the barrel of America's guns. It must be choosen. Don't listen to me, listen to JFK who said it best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNhMfBLBDGg
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Ummmm, whew, dont know much about history do ya? Kennedy's philosophy = Cuba, still not a Democracy.
By the barrel of America's guns = Japan, One of the worlds most robust Democracies... 61 years later
TheEngager 5 years ago
You are THE most ignorant fuck on the planet! Perhaps, you should bend over, pull, and wait for the POP! Japan LOST WWII with Germany and Italy. The result, Democracy! WE did not attack them and force it upon them. We defended the world against a man INVADING every country. Now you're trying to re-writing history to your liking. You're not worth wiping my ass with...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
LMAO, man! you dont take confrontations with the truth very well! OH YEAH!!! youre right!! Germany and Italy are still democracies as well ;) But sir I must point out... your logic dictates "It must be chosen!!" So are you contending that Hitler & the axis powers "chose" to start the 2nd world war so we would bring democracy at the barrel of our guns? No! of course you are not!!
TheEngager 5 years ago
Dumbfuck! You don't even understand the difference between World War II and our invasion/occupation of Iraq. You see them as the SAME THING. One was stopping another nation allied with Japan and Italy from overtaking the world. The other was the pre-emptive invasion of another country that DID not attack us soley to spread Democracy to the Muslim world. Someone else please tell Corkey here he's an idot, I'm sick and tired of this insane shit!
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Please reread how I framed the comparison. While I do believe we are presently engaged in the initial battles of world war 3, I am quite aware that these are two distinctly different wars in more ways than 1. The main reason for my comparison was to blow a gapeing hole in your "freedom by the barrel of a gun" theory.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Show me, in the history of America, where we pre-emptively invaded another free nation, who did not attack us, occupy them, and force Democracy upon them? Until then, any comparision you make is fucking retarded...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Show me where in our history we have faced an enemy so cowardly as to purposely target civilians, then run and hide.. in caves, in bunkers under schools, behind their "religion", who wear no uniform, care nothing about taking their own lives so long as they can take a few "infidels" with them. On 9-11 THEY redefined war! Not us! In this nuclear age we no longer have the luxury of waiting for them to carry out their next attack!!!.....
TheEngager 5 years ago
This is a battle for the hearts and minds of the not-so-fanatical muslim as well as a military campaign. Unfortunately a large percentage of Americans cant see through the media's agenda-driven reporting which has but one all-consuming mission.... GET BUSH OUT! Damn the costs! Damn the consequences in the war against islamofacists.. BUSH is the threat.. Your side may well win this battle in the war for public opinion.. but it will cost MANY MORE INNOCENT LIVES in the end
TheEngager 5 years ago
That's conjecture and baseless lies. Tell yourself Democrats rape kittens, and the media is run by Satan trying to fuck your brain. I could careless how you rationalize things or what color the sky is in your world. You're eventually going to have to deal with this failed foreign policy in Iraq at some point. Blaming the media and Dems for Iraq is like blaming a neighbor for not mowing your lawn.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Vietnam. This recklessly arrogant administration didn't learn a single thing from history and our brave men and women in uniform are now paying for that mistake with their lives.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Vietnam? That a response to my "Show me where in our history" question?
TheEngager 5 years ago
No, it's was to your question, "Where's your favorite vaction hotspot"?
Yeeeeeesh, you have more issues than a years subscription to Sports Illustrated.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Tell ya what sport, I tried to have a civil discourse with ya, but it seems all you can do is call names, wallow in the gutter, so... you just carry on your merry way... I shouldve known better than to attempt to carry on a civilized debate with one who thinks.. a film of himself dancing buck naked in front of his bathroom mirror.. is entertainment or amusing.
TheEngager 5 years ago
"Sport"? Why not Chief, Pal, Tiger, Skipper, Chum, or Buster? Judge my work however you'd like. Rip it, mock it, disagree with it...I really don't care, you're not my audience and should express yourself anyway you like. Now you can find someone else's throat to shove your beliefs down, belittle with sarcasm, twist their words/posts to your liking, change history, only use "talking points", and never answer their questions while constantly asking your own...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
I chose "sport", for it's innocuousness, because I unlike you, to the end... attempted to keep it civil, rather than resort to name-calling. You continue to misrepresent fact, propagandize, spout revisionist history and join the chorus of Bush-bashers all ya like... I choose to think for myself and arrive at judgements via unbiased and non-agenda-driven news sources and through lessons learned from history... Buh-bye
TheEngager 5 years ago
When you call someone "Sport", it's condescending. You're talking down to me. I'm actually amazed you'd even try to lie about it. Since we don't know each other, and I don't care what you think of me, it's laughable. When faced with facts about Iraq, you blame the Media, the Dems, or Bush haters. Hubris will ultimately be your undoing. You seem like a really nice person; you just act like a stroke when debating. Take care :) (I truly mean that)
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Show me WHERE I "spouted revisionist history" anywhere on this thread! When you fail to do so, I'd very much like an apology...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
"As I recall". BUT YOU DIDN'T. You didn't recall ANYTHING did ya? You posted nothing about it except "I read up on the (by the way it's) PFTNAC long ago. If you were a 7th grader in class, you'd be flunked by now for bs'ing and being overly vauge.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Hey Genius, Google PFTNAC, then try PNAC & tell me which gets you better results. You wanna play hardball & continually attempt to insult my intelligence, you best move out of your glass house. You once again put your colossal ignorance on display for all to see, by quibbling over an acronym! You presume to correct me when you obviously dont have a clue! I suppose you & I live in the USOA rather than the USA, I suppose Pamela Anderson is a member of PFTETOA rather than PETA! Talk about BS!
TheEngager 5 years ago
"You didn't recall ANYTHING did ya?" Oh my what arrogance! You a mind-reader now as well? You honestly believe I wouldve added "their statements were quite prescient and were legitimate concerns that I actually happen to share." to it if I had no idea what it said????
TheEngager 5 years ago
musta been that left turn at Albuquerque. ;)
TheEngager 5 years ago
Purple fingers ROFL!! They are far outnumbered these days by the purple corpses piling up in Iraq thanks to Bushhole's fascist military misadventure! But hey, keep deluding yourself, Engorger - and when the US pulls its second round of "helicopters fleeing Saigon" I'll be here to ram my purple finger into your chest and tell you I TOLD YOU SO.
PresidentWar 5 years ago
Engorger so what you're saying is, you have no quick, cheap, brainless Coulter-esque witticism to reply to my comment. Imagine my surprise!
PresidentWar 5 years ago
Im sorry PresidentWar...were you directing this at me? If so, you seem to have problem spelling TheEngager. heck I'd even respond to just Engager.
Until you are able to engage TheEngager in something resembling a civil discourse.. I'll just consider the source.. and ignore you.
TheEngager 5 years ago
You can't have civil discourse tool box. You have to be rational to have it. You're not. You listen to no one here, only debate, tear down, and prematurely discredit. You didn't even look up Project for The New American Century did you? Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw, why would you? Look under Statement of Principals at who signed it in 1997. Cheney, Rummy, Wolfawitz, etc. Who's in power now? F'ing READ and learn something before you attempt to talk down to people
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Because I dont see things the way you do, you deem me irrational. Because you fail to sway me with your editorial conjecture presented as "fact", you say I dont listen. Because I didnt acknowledge the Bush-haters favorite dead horse PNAC, you assume I arbitrarily arrive at my opinions without the benefit of research. Where is this tolerance and open-mindedness you people profess and presume to preach to others about??
TheEngager 5 years ago
"Sway YOU?" Give me a f@cking break. That's the point. You decision on what things are and will be has already been made. What possible facts do you have to support your cause other than "Clinton did this", or "because I believe it to be true". That's not support, that's blinding ignorance.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
"You can't have civil discourse tool box. You have to be rational to have it. You're not. You listen to no one here, only debate, tear down, and prematurely discredit." Oh I am sorry! Ive always thought "civil discourse" meant a polite, interactive, exchange of ideas, free of name-calling, etc, etc. I actually believed discourse was another way of saying "debate" Maybe I should check the dictionary first next time!!
TheEngager 5 years ago
You say things with no proof. You don't answer peoples questions when they answer yours with links. You discredit the links with nothing more than " your supposed "facts" were unable to support what were in reality, statements of opinion rather than "facts". You debate with nothing more than "Clinton did this", or " That's not true". I could careless. You're going to have to deal with the person in the mirror when things are said and done. It has nothing to do with me or others.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Sorry, meant driving this nation into a "ditch". It's almost lunch time here and I was thinking about food...
PresidentWar 5 years ago
You guys are wasting your time with fools like this "Engorger". They are Bushista persoality cultists, sometimes hiding behind their time in the military to shut down any debate. They are still obsessed with Clinton's penis, and blind to the fact that Bushhole and his Reichmasters are driving this nation into a dish. Laugh at them. They are a dwindling breed, thank God, and will soon be swept out of power so that we can begin to repair the enormous damage they have caused.
PresidentWar 5 years ago
This is a response PresidentWar, though Ive given up on receiving a thought-provoking response from him. Notice how when people of his ilk are flummoxed by actual intelligent discourse, they resort to the usual name-calling & sophomoric hyperbole. The only intelligible thing you said is so far offbase I'm forced to dignify it with a response: I relish debate, good "military" men died for this right. I have no desire to dishonor those who sacrificed their lives by "shutting down" debate.
TheEngager 5 years ago
it's unfortunate that Bush Cheney rumsfield rove etc have somehow endeared themselves to the military & their families. They are not good ol boys, working class, or soldiers. None of them have ever "fought" for anything.
douchesaucier 5 years ago
douchesaucier,
Are you insinuating that the military & and their families arent discerning enough to judge who is deserving of their esteem?
TheEngager 5 years ago
Perhaps you need to travel over to Ogrish.com and see what these Muslims do as they saw off the heads of their bound victims. They praise God. Believe me, these guys don't want peace, that is why they continue to slaughter men, women AND innocent children in Iraq. Today....a soccer field was targeted to kill UNARMED people and Muslims are not protesting the deaths of children and THE OBVIOUS need to make America the guilty one and to make more pictures of hate. You need to wake up.
ArrrMaltie 5 years ago
i wonder if it would be possible to occasionally enforce our anti-trust laws? nahhh
nicholas9999 5 years ago
I think after a while, people just thought the government would stay on top of it, except that the trusts have bought gov. I don't even have a problem with Hallburton & subs, but no one even blinked when Bush and Rumsfield starting bidding basic functions of the military.
douchesaucier 5 years ago
or we might reasonably expect our elected public officials to make their points understandably? where is that conservative value of having people be accountable? lol
nicholas9999 5 years ago
yup, we're just a bunch of brain-dead fools, who hate america, and want our children to be educated by the taliban. And they had the nerve to call us "reality-based" !! What nonsense, we're fully as capable as conservatives of following an uninformed leader and/or a set of misguided ideologically-based policies !!
nicholas9999 5 years ago
lol, you can't possibly be serious, can you? please say you have been living in a cave with no access to any news . .
nicholas9999 5 years ago
aw, so beautiful, the accusation of anti-americanism!! i am quite positive you are being sarcastic, but i gotta check ..
nicholas9999 5 years ago
i don't think your Chamberlain reference makes much sense! Was invading Afganistan a smart response? How about Iraq? The Taliban appears to be reinvigorated in Afghanistan. Now what? What if the problem is not about vigorous vs. non-vigorous responses, as continually gets argued? What if it is about being smart and culturally aware? Shall we just drop a series of monster bombs everywhere a terrorist might be hiding?? I think we might have a problem .. .
nicholas9999 5 years ago
Well, i think the Russians may have had a more principled, if misguided, view, lol. We, on the other hand, want democracies so we can conveniently and safely market to their populations. I like to think that following the money is a useful strategy when inquiring about people's behaviors .. . it's that old standby: neo-colonial economic imperialism at work.
nicholas9999 5 years ago
yup, wouldn't want to surrender to those insane Islamic people, coz, good grief, they're just about everywhere !!!!!
nicholas9999 5 years ago
Now, if only Hamas would play ball, and admit they are the (only) bad guys. H was democratically elected by the Palestinian people. China and Russia have refused to call it a terrorist organization. Exactly what is the correct perception of reality? Maybe it is not quite so clearcut??
nicholas9999 5 years ago
name-calling is the province of, er, name-callers! arguments should stand or fall on their own merits. most people at the time (of the Iraq invasion) believed we were in great danger from SH, no matter how ignorant that may sound now. so were we all stupid? sure seems like it . .
nicholas9999 5 years ago
It's hard to determine a root cause from a dead guy! No matter, Cheney has advised us not to "do therapy" on terrorists! So, let's avoid the best advice of military science (see information theories of war), martial arts (Aikido and understanding the POV of your opponent) and policework (e.g., profiling a serial killer): we should stenuously avoid understanding the motivations of our enemy! (shhh, I sound as if I want to give them an excuse, to legitimize them **sticks head back in sand**)
nicholas9999 5 years ago
And yet there is no record of any theater experience !! Wait, maybe . . private tutoring, or perhaps a small acting class? Broadway awaits !
nicholas9999 5 years ago
BUSH IS THE ANTI CHRIST
aquales 5 years ago
How embarrassing. That idiot's done far more damage to what was once America than the terrorists could EVER POSSIBLY HAVE DONE.
BadDolphin 5 years ago
I guess you weren't living in America on 9/11 then. What a childish statement. Now go rally for gay marriage and your man Hillary Clinton.
ArrrMaltie 5 years ago
that was bs...
omgWTFn00b 5 years ago
First off, I want to thank you Engager. You served your country well and we are all pround of you and your brothers amazing courge. Thanks, will never be enough. Your leaders, your governement, and our president let you down. You did everything right, followed orders, and should be congratuatled and honored. It is this adminstation I hold accountable for not treating our brave men and women in uniform as the amazing asset they are. Not some pawn on the worlds chess board.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Thank you for your expression of gratitude for that which I considered an Honor as well as a Duty. Our previous President IMO did in fact let me down.. When in Somalia, he felt a mission was important enough to send my brothers in arms into harms way, but as soon as the inevitable casualties of combat happened... he lost his spine, yanked my brothers in arms out before the mission was accomplished and basically told those who watched friends die... they died in vain
TheEngager 5 years ago
Troop levels:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/iraq/cst-nws-iraq29.html
http://story.iraqsun.com/p.x/ct/9/id/72179af4a049965a/cid/187cf2a69985adcf/
That number will go up 3,000 in the next month according to sources. Reading is FUN!!!
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Those links provided no support for your "10 years or longer/permenant" assertions of "fact" that I took issue with. The rise in troop levels: Another catch 22... Democrat mouthpieces say "He didnt send enough to get the job done" all while others say "we need to pull them out now" Typical "I would of done it smarter", 20/20 hindsight, backseat driving, monday morning quarterback doublespeak.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Thank you for your expression of gratitude for that which I considered an Honor as well as a Duty. Our previous President IMO did in fact let me down.. When in Somalia, he felt a mission was important enough to send my brothers in arms into harms way, but as soon as the inevitable casualties of combat happened... he lost his spine, yanked my brothers in arms out before the mission was accomplished and basically told those who watched friends die... they died in vain
TheEngager 5 years ago
This President, thus far has shown that he understands that if at the onset... a mission is worth the inevitable casualties it will cause, then it is worth seeing it through to it's completion. Thereby avoiding the ultimate slap in the face to the fighting man... ultimates sacrifices made, being made in vain.
TheEngager 5 years ago
"Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice declined on Wednesday to rule out American forces still being needed in Iraq a decade from now." Condi's estimate good enough for you? This is the LAST time I'm linking facts for you. It's up to YOU to find them, read them, and learn. I don't have all F'ing day to educate you. Thanks:)
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/october2005/20100510years.htm
Bolgernow 5 years ago
I'm sorry you are so presumptuous as to believe that you need to spend all "F'ing day" to educate me. Im also sorry that you in effect wasted your whole "F'ing" day dredging up what are some of the poorest examples of "fact" I have ever seen represented as such. She "declined to rule out" somehow makes a metamorphosis into a factual estimate?? Dear lord man, listen to yourself.
The administration has repeated drawn the line at setting any sort of definate timetable.
TheEngager 5 years ago
You conveniently chose to ignore this comment:
"I don't know how to speculate about what will happen 10 years from now, but I do believe that we are moving on a course on which Iraqi security forces are rather rapidly able to take care of their own security concerns," Rice responded.
TheEngager 5 years ago
She said NOTHING. It means NOTHING. She's saying, "I don't know cause I'm not going to be around." She also toes the company line nicely by saying "I do believe that we are moving on a course on which Iraqi security forces are rather rapidly able to take care of their own security concern". So when? When are they going to be ready? Oh yeah, WE DON'T F'ING KNOW!!!
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Poorest facts according to whom? You asked. I gave. Give me a F'ing break buddy. You're bias, and incabible of listening to others, sharing, and having an open dialouge. Look at your posts. What you ""firmly believe to be true, and trumpet with passion" are "talking points". Look them up on any Neo-Con site. Weak, and sad. Only 37% of Americans have ANY confidence in this nutjob. Sorry you're a dumbass in that 37%...
Bolgernow 5 years ago
nut job?? the president?? why? because you hate freedom, helping those who have less than us, and fighting for an oppressed people?? you want we should let evil reign, and come after your family?? what is he done that you disaprove of? attacking an idealogy that killed our neighbors?? Or have you forgotten??
jesusslave 5 years ago
Perhaps you can tell me why we don't free Cuba, North Korea, Someila, Rowanda, and many more opressive regiems? Don't they all want to be free? Revolution comes from within, not by the gunbarrel of someone else. I would love to help people who want to be free, but is it OUR job to free the world? Are we super hero's now? What about the poor in our own country?
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Last time I checked, we broke from England to be FREE. Canada didn't start a war FOR us. Just study history and you'll see that why what looks to be a noble cause is impossible. Don't confuse "trying to bring freedom to Iraq" with "making us safer" in Bush's mind. Freedom for many is a result of Bush attempting to snuff out Saddam and the Baath party. While that's a great thing, now we have civil war between Sunni and Shiite.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Ummm, who called them the poorest "facts"?? I did. 1st question answered. When I called you.. on your supposed "facts" you were still unable to support what were in reality, statements of opinion rather than "facts". Were you to present those "facts" in a court of law you would be laughed out of the courtroom. I asked if those were your "facts".. why? because I couldnt believe you honestly expected anyone other the the most naive among us to gobble them up just as you represented them.
TheEngager 5 years ago
What the hell are you talking about? Which question did you ask that I did not anwser and provide linked "facts" for?
Bolgernow 5 years ago
"We'll have 100,000+ troops there for 10 years & longer." That sir is not a "FACT" The Dr. Rice link you provided in support of this non-fact, was no more "fact" than the first, simply a refusal to answer a leading question and then editorial conjecture over the lack of denial. "over 60 permanent military bases" another misleading non-fact.. The "PERMENANT" in that phrase is nothing more than editorial conjecture as well.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Clinton made HUGE mistakes. But this wasn't about Clinton, was it? This was about Bush. Is your anger towards Clinton seems to cloud your judgement against the current sitution.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Here's some "facts" for you. 1) I never claimed to be UN-biased. 2)I rarely comment on spelling but since you called me a "dumbass".. Im the "dumbass" who can correctly spell "incapable" and "dialogue" 3)I notice you didnt touch my Somalia post with a 10 ft pole. You asked for the basis of my deeply held beliefs.. Ive a passion for history and learning from the lessons it provides us. I provided a factual slice of history that serves as just one of the many basis for my deeply held beliefs.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Sorry for my poor speling, me not so good:) Currently, Iraqi's only control of 34 of 110 bases as of today:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11072377/
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Poorest facts according to whom? Apparently according to you as well, you supplied the Dr Rice link, attempted to represent it as a factual estimate, and then YOU had this to say about it.."She said NOTHING. It means NOTHING. She's saying, "I don't know cause I'm not going to be around." :)
TheEngager 5 years ago
If you just want to argue please get a wife, or buy a jacket and join a debate team. Please look at the context of those things you just stated. They are compeletely SEPERATE statements:)
Bolgernow 5 years ago
You are correct, thats a response to a much earlier post. I was reading because "reading is fun" & that just jumped off the page at me & I couldnt ignore it or let it go without pointing it out, because as much as anything, I enjoy exposing disingenuousness. Already got a wife, and got her thinking my way as well. :)
TheEngager 5 years ago
Why not look at what Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) last week called Iraq "an absolute replay of Vietnam." Rep. Gil Gutknecht (R-Minn.) recently returned from Iraq with a call for U.S. troops to pull out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/31/AR2006073100743.html
Bolgernow 5 years ago
I actually agree with Hagel to a degree... the Democrats have taken a page from the Vietnam playbook and made a concerted effort to turn public opinion against this war, with hopes that we lose on the public opinion front, in spite of how many actual lives it costs on the actual combat front.
TheEngager 5 years ago
He says "um" quite a lot...
scweweywabbit 5 years ago
Engager = Redneck .. Enough said.
PSorge 5 years ago
Well, well... we have another "open-minded" "free-thinker" who rather than engage in the discourse chooses to expose his prejudices and intolerance for divergent opinions with adolescent name-calling.
"Red-stater" I could live with, but Im hardly a redneck, although I would expect the pompous, arrogant, elitist snobs among us to consider the two synonymous.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Oh Engorger for christs sake lpease don't start this "if we dont fight them three we fight them in our streets" bullshit! Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11 or UBL. Period. Even your criminal president has been forced to admit that. What you rethugs call the "battle for public opinion" has another name - Josef Goebbels called it the BIG LIE. And aint it something that the neocon warmongers have became so adept at Nazi tactics? FITTING, sez I!
PresidentWar 5 years ago
Whew! PresidentWar... you are a piece of work. Do try to breath deeply, quell your anger and hatred to the point where you will at least be able to make some sense with what you are attempting to say. If you doubt the "taking the fight to them" strategem, and believe that us just chasing them out of Afghanistan was going to solve our terrorism problem, your mentality frankly scares me. Furthermore, I dont recall anyone attempting to say Iraq had anything to do with 9-11.
TheEngager 5 years ago
We could re-hash should we be there or not till the cows come home... but it wont change the fact that we are there.... how about dealing with that reality?
TheEngager 5 years ago
have you had enough? vote democratic - impeach bush - reclaim america!
summitoaks 5 years ago
Tell ya what, Engorger - as soon as you extricate yourself from your time machine and realize that Bill Clinton is no longer president - your living TURD of a human being GEORGE BUSH is - then we'll attempt to have a serious discussion on the subject. Until then I relegate your comments to the receptacle they very much deserve....the one with a flush handle on it.
PresidentWar 5 years ago
Oh my! Arent you just the cleverest little adolescent name caller, if I didnt know better I'd think you were one of those mean spirited, hate filled republicans your ilk attempts to brand us all as. Im beginning to wonder if a serious discussion sans the name calling is possible with someone of your... "debating caliber"......
TheEngager 5 years ago
Those who ignore or could care less about history's lessons are destined to repeat them, therefore a "serious discussion" of the subject of terrorism is incomplete without referencing the glaring mistakes made by the previous administration. SO... if you choose to ignore history.. woe be unto you, I however choose to take seriously the lessons provided by the true incompetence that got us in the dire straits in which we find ourselves.
TheEngager 5 years ago
When our enemy number 1... OBL refers specifically to our spineless reaction to bloodshed such as happened in Mogadishu and causes him to conclude that we Americans dont have the resolve to endure the necessary casualties to defeat them... Then this concerned American and apparently our President... takes notice and learns from those lessons so painfully provided by your darlings....
TheEngager 5 years ago
yea, the include all IEDs and car bombings being done by the US military. lol.
Brantoc 5 years ago
What's US foreign policy? Duh! There ain't no mistaking, bringing war... bringing out hatred.
reywalryan 5 years ago
So here's a serious question for anybody to answer: What exactly does Bush mean when he says that freedom and liberty are our weapons? It brings a chilling feeling to peoples' gut, but how the hell is allowing Israel to destroy Lebanon a means of spreading freedom and liberty?
dabruster 5 years ago
By the way, myth buster: America is a Democracy. No, silly, it's a representative REPUBLIC. Democracy is rule by the common people. We're ruled by law and a constitution (maybe not so much anymore).
dabruster 5 years ago
Good job, President Bush. You just supported Israel in their destruction of your most shining example of your foreign policy of creating Arab democratic state, and through your blind support of Israel's military campaigns, permitted the Arab nations to be more unified in their hatred for Israel and the United States. Thanks, I feel more secure now.
dabruster 5 years ago
ARSEnishizawa, go fuck yourself. "Cut and run" is rightwing-ese for "our egos are more important than the shit mess we created with the Iraq farce. Thankfully, the majority of Americans are with me on this one. If you wanna fight terrorism, stop supporting the Bush Reich - which makes more of them every day.
PresidentWar 5 years ago
OH now there's an intelligent response, put alot of thought into that one didnt you. Being a proud right-winger "cut and run" is rightwing-ese for lets not make the same mistake that Bill Clinton made in Mogadishu and in effect tell the islamofascists we Americans dont have the fortitude to stay in a fight once our nose gets bloodied a bit...
TheEngager 5 years ago
Lets just let all future terrorist know... if you want to beat America... all you gotta do is lure them into a fight, hide behind civilians to maximize civilian casualties, kill a few of her soldiers and then sit back wait on her liberal press and the Democrats to do their level best to destroy any unity that may have existed when they were initially lured into the fight.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Bring it PresidentWar and this time utilize a few more brain cells than it took to come up with "go @%&$ yourself"
TheEngager 5 years ago
You might think it's an easy decision, but when someone lures you into anything, beware. They have the upper hand in their own back yard and have thought this out. Be smarter than them, not as ignorant.
Our douche bag adminstation choose to fight 1st instead of crippling their economy, boycotting trade, and forcing "disarmament". Only use war as a last resort, not 1st.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Bolgernow, perhaps "lure" was the wrong choice of words. I suppose "provoked" wouldve provided a more accurate description of what 9-11 did. Regarding their "backyard".. I suppose you would rather have this war take place in "OUR BACKYARD"?? Tell me.. did they end up with the upper hand in Afghanistan? and Iraq.. do you believe they are killing more of us than we are killing of them?
TheEngager 5 years ago
The only way we will lose this war is in the battle for public opinion... Unfortunately the terrorists have some powerful allies in this battle in the form of our very own mainstream media and even more heinous.. the Democrat party..who in their fervor to regain power chose to play politics with American soldiers lives.
TheEngager 5 years ago
Do not confuse 9/11 with Iraq Engager. One has NOTHING to do with the other. With Afghanistan, we had the worlds support, then lost it with the invasion of Iraq.
We're doing well in Iraq? Wow, best you take a peek over there and hear from people who've been there. You are incredibly mistaken this has anything to do with the media, or the Democratic party. Save your talking points for Bill O'Reilly.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
No confusion whatsoever on my part sir, do you disagree that all parties involved believe Iraq to now be the central front in war against Islamofascists?? Pragmatism tells me, thats not such a bad thing! How we are doing in Iraq all depends on whom you choose to believe. I have listened to many POSITIVE testimonies from returning vets as well as some still in country.
TheEngager 5 years ago
I've heard POSITIVE things said about the KKK, that argument doesn't fly. Our military timetables don't reflect yours or the administrations stable Iraq pitcure. We'll have 100,000+ troops there for 10 years & longer. We added & are around 137,000 troops now, & over 60 permanent military bases. Sound "safe" to you? Please watch "BattleGround: 21 Days on the Empire's Edge". Gives amazing insight into the people of a complex region.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
And Ive heard negative things said about Dr Martin Luther King, the Pope, and Jesus Christ... now how does prove the NEGATIVES that you have heard are any more true than my POSITIVES? Huhhhh? Imagine that... things didnt go exactly as planned... IN A WAR!!!! Thats NEVER happened before!!!! How dare this President not foretell every little bit of adversity we might face!!!
TheEngager 5 years ago
In this American's humble opinion, the press and the democrats have emboldened the enemy, prolonged this war and COSTED AMERICAN SOLDIERS LIVES! all in the name of politics, regaining power and I for 1 will never forgive them.
TheEngager 5 years ago
That's not an opinion. Those are factless acusations called talking points. Opinions are loosely based on facts and great to have. While I understand yours, you choose not to tolerate others which is sad, and almost McCarthyish. Blaming the press, and Democrats for prolonging this war is retarded. We invaded another country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Go ahead, tell me I'm wrong.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
Opinion: A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof. I believe this to be applicable.
TheEngager 5 years ago
If you are an American you are well within your right to say whatever you wish. Good Americans gave their lives that you might have that right. Your and my words dont carry the same weight as the mainstream media or prominent politicians. With the power that they possess with their tongues comes great responsibility. I firmly believe that they have been irresponsible with their words and have costed American lives. You have the right to disagree. :)
TheEngager 5 years ago
"We invaded another country that had nothing to do with 9/11"
"We could re-hash should we be there or not till the cows come home... but it wont change the fact that we are there.... how about dealing with that reality?"
I believe he felt he was doing what was best for our nations security. You do not. All else is just mud in the water. Can we get beyond this and deal with the reality that we are faced with??
TheEngager 5 years ago
While tool box jones thought his actions were best for the country, they turned out to be the exact opposite, which makes us all less safe. That is something we all have to live with, not blame "others" for. Did the media invade Iraq? Did the Democrats invade Iraq? No, please don't pass the buck here. This administration wanted this when it came into power. Please look up the Project For The New American Century. It should explain the current foreign policy very well.
Bolgernow 5 years ago
"While (our duely elected president) thought his actions were best for the country..." Do you propose this president or any other should do anything other than what they believe to be in the best interest of our country's national defense????
TheEngager 5 years ago