MUST SEE!!! SHOCKING ORIGINS OF THE SECRET PRE TRIBULATION RAPTURE DOCTRINE

[icarusdescending881]

My goodness, you sound both proud and pleased with yourself, none of which makes you right. Sorry, no sale.

[theluellen]

Catholics are not taught the rapture.

[icarusdescending881]

Classicjukebox -- Having studied Bible eschatology for most of my life I'm happy to report that you, and the teacher on the unfortunate clip, could not be more incorrect. I'm happy because, right or wrong, you'll be going up in the rapture right along side the rest of us. Read and study the head of Scotland Yard's famous study of Daniel's seventy weeks -- The Coming Prince by Sir Robert Anderson. He shows that the trib is not for Christians but for Jews. Study it -- please! Maranatha!

[Patrickseventyfour]

@icarusdescending881 You can study all you want - if you're studying the wrong thing, you're not going to learn the truth. The simple fact is that the faith was delivered once for all to the saints (Jude 3), meaning that something that was not taught or believed by the earliest followers was not part of the Faith delivered once for all. And Eph. 4:4 tells us that there is ONE faith, ONE body, ONE baptism. As such, anything (like sola scriptura and sola fide, both directly

[Patrickseventyfour]

@icarusdescending881 refuted by the NT, interestingly) that didn't exist until, oh, say, the 16th century or later is NOT of the Faith delivered once for all to the saints. The "rapture" is something created out of whole cloth approximately one and a half thousand years after Christ. It is not of Christ, nor is it of the Christian faith. And it has nothing to do with Jews, especially (for in Christ there is neither Greek nor Jew . . .)

[SeriousVoyager]

Video isn't serious. Linking "Rapture" teaching to Jesuits, when it was never doctrine of the Catholic Church (it is refuted by mountains of Catholic literature ) isn't an intellectually honest position. Obviously, this nonsense is perpetrated by Protestants...read Pope Benedicts newest release: Jesus of Nazareth II, Holy Week. I think you'll find Jesus never spoke as a "clairvoyant" making predictions of the end of world... or read some Scott Hahn were he talks about being exposed to these

[classicjukebox]

@SeriousVoyager The video never claims that this doctrine expanded to become a doctrine of the Catholic church. What is important about this video for Christians is the historic reality that this doctrine was not taught by any of the church fathers, starting with Polycarp, who was a direct disciple of the Apostle John himself, who wrote the book of Revelation! Don't you think that if the church was to be raptured, that John was capable to communicate that fact to Polycarp? God have MERCY!

[aliciatrawick1]

I had posted much on this matter, but this site did not publish it. I have my full note on this in my facebook. If I could send it to anyone, I would be happy to email you.

[aliciatrawick1]

vs 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations; & he shall rule them with a rod of iron; & he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness & wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture & on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[aliciatrawick1]

vs 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations; & he shall rule them with a rod of iron; & he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness & wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture & on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

[aliciatrawick1]

vs 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations; & he shall rule them with a rod of iron; & he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness & wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture & on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS....I cont. further

[classicjukebox]

@aliciatrawick1 If we look at the Scriptures, we see in both Matthew 24 and 1. Thessalonians 4 that those accompanying The Lord Jesus Christ on the horses are most likely in reference to His mighty angels. Both the saints and angels have been clothed in fine linen in the Scriptures. The Lord Jesus Christ according to the Bible is returning with ALL His saints. A pre tribulation rapture has Him coming with SOME of His saints. I believe ALL means ALL.

[aliciatrawick1]

@classicjukebox Hi Classicjukebox, I am happy to confer with you about this - I am only having trouble posting on this site (it possibly could be my negligence in operating). I have a facebook acct: aliciadtrawick in Dothan, AL. I would be pleased to discuss greater content with you there if would be convenient.

[classicjukebox]

@aliciatrawick1  That verse does not indicate what happens after the believers are caught up. It does not say that the believer's feet never touch the ground.

[aliciatrawick1]

Peace Lord Jesus - let Your Word be enlightening.

[Rileyportbay]

I know I recognize this voice! (( : How are you doing sis? Getting ready to watch this now. Found it on Facebook friend's wall. What a nice surprize it was!!!

[classicjukebox]

@Rileyportbay Hi, You have the wrong person. I am Roy. These are just videos I found that I want to share with Christians.

[ScientologySucksAss]

Darwin is the Truth. God is Fake. 

[Hinda39]

Is obama the anti-christ? I believe so. Hating Jews, hating Israel, loving the Muslim Brotherhood, loving people who hate people of non-color, hates the true Allies of the US and wants to see another pro-terrorist state within Israel.

[classicjukebox]

I also believe in the rapture. It is real. You are right. It has nothing to do with man. It happens after the great tribulation, after antichrist sets up the abomination of desolation. Please read your Bible. Read Matthew 24 and you can see when the rapture occurs. Plain and clear.

[blessedwithoutmeasur]

I belive in the rapture I am going I can prove in scripture that the rapture of the church is real in scripture, doesn't have any thing to do with man it is Gods Idea, and it will happen soon Get ready!!!!

[christineshires]

@blessedwithoutmeasur There was no scripture to back up a post trib rapture as the user gave only facts, but no scripture. There are great problems with the post trib view and pre wrath view of a rapture. One being that those who miss the rapture but are saved during the tribulation will not have translated bodies in the millenial kingdom. also the 144,000 witnesses who save souls during the tribulation, in the post trib view, there is not room for these people. The pre trib is scriptural

[blessedwithoutmeasur]

@christineshires I have lots of scripture to back up my veiw on the rapture 144000 are send in the tribulatition period they are jews evanglist, they are there to preach the gosple there ar going to be un saved in the tribulation period, rev 1-4 talks about the church, then it doesn't after the fourth chapter, lots of people will go in the rapture =christians we are supose to look for his comming!!! You want to go through the tribulation? you don't have to, Jesus made a way to for us!!!,<3

[christineshires]

@blessedwithoutmeasur jeepers, did you misunderstand my reply? :) I was pointing out the errors in the post trib view. I am pre trib all the way. The church is NOT in revelation after chapter 4 you are correct, there are many problems with the post and prewrath view of the rapture. Only the pre tribulation rapture is scriptural. that was my point. :) God bless you

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires I beg to differ with you. The church is ONE BODY. The pre tribulation rapture doctrine says there are two distinct bodies of believers---those in the pre tribulation rapture, and then those believers in the great tribulation. Furthermore, the word primarily used in the New Testament for "coming" is "parousia". This word is used in the singular form always. There IS a plural form of the word in the Greek language, but it was never used in the Bible. Again MATTHEW 24 MATTHEW 24

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox Yes, the church is one body of believers. and they who are saved will be taken up at the time of the rapture which is prior to the great tribulation. Those who are saved during the great tribulation will not be raptured but ushered into the Milenial Kingdom at the second coming of Christ. Those believers will not have been translated or 'raptured', but will enter into the kingdom in mortal bodies. Micah 4 proclaims this.

[christineshires]

@christineshires Also, then if you hold to the post tribulation rapture, then please explain to me the timeline in your view for when the judgement seat of Christ or the Judgement of believers takes place. Becaause having a post tribulation view leaves no room for this judgement seat to take place as in post trib view believers are raptured after the trib and then IMMEDIATELY return with Christ. The only veiw that is not flawed is the pre trib view. God bless you.

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Look at this verse dear sister "And you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, IN FLAMING FIRE TAKING VENGEANCE ON THEM THAT KNOW NOT GOD, AND THAT OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: WHO SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, AND THE GLORY OF HIS POWER, WHEN HE SHALL COME TO BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS..." 2. Thes 1:7-10a (Is this a pre trib rapture?)

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox No, brother/sister, sorry but your username does not denote this, :), this is not a pre trib verse, but one refering to the second coming. I have wrestled relentlessly with this doctrine before settling on a pre trib view. I was once pre wrath/post trib also. But there are good and bad points for each side, but what I mean to say is that the post trib view leaves no room for the 7days hiding, or in this case 7years as with a typical jewish wedding feast where the bride/groom

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Please read the verse again...Paul is speaking to the CHURCH....he is telling the CHURCH when their rest comes.... A pre tribulation rapture has a rest coming at least seven years BEFORE this event. See? Please explain.

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox beloved, our blessed hope is Jesus Himself appearing to take us Home to heaven, and us returning with Him for His millineal kingdom to rule and reign with him. The time of Jacob's trouble is NOT for the Chruch. for the Time of the Gentiles will have ended at the time the tribulation begins. God then deals with Isreal and their unbelief, and the unsaved gentiles during this time. God bless you. I would love to discuss this with you. feel free to message me. :)

[christineshires]

@christineshires continued: retire to the wedding suite. There are holes in this particular view of post trib. What of the verse that says Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it. To those who hold to the post trib view, its like saying that you love a finace, but before he marries you, he's going to beat the tar out of you and then you will marry him. Jesus does not beat up his bride before.

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Please focus. Please explain the verse I gave you. Please explain it in light of the pre tribulation rapture. The way I read it is that the church's rest begins when Jesus appears with His angels in flaming fire. I wait patiently.

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox alright, lets look. :) Paul is speaking to the church talking about when God returns to judge the wicked and they shall be destroyed because they had not believed/obeyed the gospel. The last part is WHEN HE SHALL BE GLORIFIED IN HIS SAINTS. This is correct in light of the pretrib rapture. there is no mention of the rapture in these verses. We rest in Jesus now and glory in his coming when we return with him to rule and reighn with Him. I wait patiently also.

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Christine, my name is Roy. I am glad you are looking at these verses. There seems to be the clear point of this passage is being avoided by you. "And you who are troubled, rest with us, when...." is what I am focused on. Why would Paul say that the believer's rest BEGINS at the Third Coming (be honest, you believe in three comings of the Lord.) If there is a pre tribulation rapture as you say, the believer's rest would begin LONG before the Third Coming, would it not???

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox Well, no, actually, there are two comings of the Lord. the first, and then the second. But believe me, I held to the post/pre wrath view for a long time. These same verses are the ones that I used to hold my view along with the one in peter that says and we are not appointed to 'wrath'. I want to ask you a honest question, believer to believer :) Why would God put his bride through the tribulation?

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Christine, you are avoiding my question. You have done it several times, so we will have to leave this verse. Bottom line is that you have no answer to that verse. If I am your student and a new believer that you are discipling, you have just confused me.

Why would God put His bride through tribulation? Look at the condition of the church right now! The Scriptures say our faith will be tried by fire....to purify us, and present to Him a glorious and spotless bride.

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox No, I dont think that I avoided your question. I did look at that verse, and I have studied both sides of the pre and post tribulation view. There are more points that sustain a pre trib than a post trib. We were made clean by the blood of Jesus at salvation, not sinless no, but justified, sanctified, and saved. The reference you give is zechariah verse. That is not us. That is Israel. I will look again, but why would God put his bride through the tribulation?

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It [is] my people: and they shall say, The LORD [is] my God.

This is the verse I believe you refer to. However, this is not us. It is Israel. WE have already called upon the name of Jesus to save us. Israel at that time have not.

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Actually, you believe there are three. One before the tribulation and one after, plus His coming to earth in His birth.. That is three. Three distinct comings. You say He comes in the rapture and goes back to heaven. That is surely a coming of its own.

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox There is something else also. Paul says to 'comfort one another with these words' in 2thess4:16-18. There is not comfort for believers who are believing they will have to endure the tribulation. Our comfort IS knowing from these words that we will not be left here to endure God's wrath.

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires well we did not expect God to allow what happened to His Son.....look at the pattern in Scripture dear sister...suffering, death, resurrection, glory. From Abel to the last martyr prior to His appearing it is the same. If you walk in this world with the Spirit of Christ living and speaking through you, you will suffer the same conflict that The Lord Jesus, The Apostles, The Prophets, endured. If you have no stomach for tribulation or suffering, you are in a dilemma!!!

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox Yes, Their are people all throughout the bible who endured and died for their faith, as there are now with what is happening today. But I will say this, Even though that I hold to the pre tribulation view, if it so happens that I am wrong, which means all the pre tribbers would be wrong, I have no problem standing firm in my faith in the last hour. I well know my eternal destination is Heaven and so either way I will see God who saved me. God bless you!

[classicjukebox]

@christineshires Dear Chistine, #1 I do not think God deals lightly with false prophets. This doctrine is taught dogmatically by most Evangelical ministers and I believe this false teaching has the most destructive effect on believers in their present walk with the Lord (because it creates an inability to read the Word of God as it is written, and because it is a lie, and the Holy Spirit guides us into all TRUTH. It shatters the believer's ability to read Matthew 24, in which Jesus begins HOW???

[christineshires]

@classicjukebox I don't believe that it is a false doctrine as most post tribbers do. I used to, but not anymore. I'm guessing you have always been post trib? or did you hold another view before. Because honestly, I did not think that I would go back to pre trib, but I have. When I was post trib, I lost hope and anticipation and immenance of Jesus coming for us. Some people would say that it is satan who tried to steal hope and joy. He can, he knows none himself, the LIAR. God bless you!

[blessedwithoutmeasur]

@classicjukebox sorry miss understood yes rapture going up that is cool

[camathes]

good video thanks