It's the sitbones walking forward on the saddle as your hips are rotating to contribute. All riders do this, even Spartacus (though not as pronounced as this footage of Contador.)
The technique allows for a higher power output, particularly over short timetrials or pursuit races on the track. The rider that most notably used this technique before most other riders was Colin Sturgess, an extremely exciting rider to watch. The fact that the posion is altering slightly allows for a brief rest of the muscles. As some might be aware when riding at maximum effort it used to be said a rider was 'on the rivet' (of the saddle) . It is a deliberate, effective technique.
Your pedaling at tremendous speeds....unless your ass is bolted to the seat....your ass cheeks are going to move with your legs....it's called drag and friction. What's with all the ass play?
I think it may be the fact that they are pulling more on the down stroke thus pulling themselves forward a bit. I do the same thing. This guy is questioning the saddle height of professional riders that are fit by professionals? I feel some sort of stop in the front of the seat (comfortable?) would be ideal to keep them from shifting forward.
The pro tour teams may have decided that spending 3/4's of the time on the nose of the saddle creates a large enough benefit to offset the down side of having to push yourself back every few seconds. Remember you can only push your saddle so far forward and most serious time trial specialists would prefer to be further forward.
It happens when you ride at a high power in a time-trial position and it cannot really be fixed by fitting. The seat is tilted slight forward to make it more comfortable in a tt position. When you start to put out around 330-400 W you tend to pull more during your upstroke more than you would do riding on the hoods because you use the powerful hip flexors more. The pulling motion along with a slight forward tilt on the saddle shuffles you forward. Try it if you dont believe me.
The mystery often has to do with variation in cadence. A faster cadence will require a shorter saddle height - the body moves forward to make this happen for the faster cadence, if the bars are brought back then they are a problem for the knees into the bars or elbows. I think there is a conflict among the ideals of saddle position - height/fore-aft, arm position, power, cadence, and aerodynamics. The solution is compromise.
Hi, there. Great video, nice to discuss. I'm triathlete and designer and I'm always thinking about that. If you see the Ironman, every Pros just don't use the back saddle. The manufactures never talk about it.
I'm designing something adjustable during the ride. Like two positions depending of what the rider prefer. I believe also the saddle have to be entire re-think and re-designed. Keep in touch. Best.
Also the taint problem is not really an issue. Gell nose tt seat and you actually kinda have the nose off to the side of the taint... Very little weight is on the saddle at this level. The taint thing is not an issue in TT. Now as for a 220lb weekend warrior who gets verly little of his weight into the pedals trying to TT... now that would hurt the taint alot... Infact it would be a destroyed taint.
No, really, serious now. I used to TT a bit, the fix is simple. You must start with a saddle height that feels too high when back in the saddle therefore while on the nose it is just perfect. Contador and others slide back because thats where they mistakenly set the height at. I only slid back when I wanted a different position for muscle fatigue reasons and only briefly.... It is weird how alot of pros are really bad at TT. It is a huge waste of energy to slide back and forth...
Forget get all this, they just like the way it feels. I mean, spandex, cute little shoes... you know what I am talking about ... I am actually suprised that they are not doing it at a more frantic pace... :)
What? It happens because of hip flexor muscles being used to the max. To actually stay in the same position while riding that hard you have to be able to push backwards against the pedals and not lift up. UCI got rid of high back saddles that allowed a rider to push against it and towards the pedals (which works). Now with just using hip flexors more you are constantly contracting which causes you to creep up as that muscle contraction becomes shortened. UCI sucks, this problem can be fixed
I think it comes from weak lower back muscles. Even on a a typical road bike if Im in the drops i tense up my back to keep it straight. Why dont they put velcro between the shorts and the saddle to stop them from moving back and forth.
move forward over crankarm creates more power but it so tiring on legs & knees. move backward less power but it is easier on legs & knees. i think it's a good technique to power up a little then relax a little. moving forward & backward.
i think its the UCI rules. As you're not allowed to have you're saddle less then 5cm behind verticle line coming up from you're bottom bracket. this means they slide forwards to get ''onto the rivet'' to generate more power when working hard but run out of saddle to slide forward on.
I believe there are two reasons one to be more comfortable and the more important reason is when you use do this, it taxes different muscle groups as you move forward. This effectively creates more power because your not just siting in a sold position, this helps to relax quads and gluts through the pedal stroke. I've done power tests using this sliding technique. I get higher power numbers as an end result. That's my 2 cents worth.
I find on hard efforts I tend to creep forward on the nose, but that I can generate more power longer when I sit back and heavy on the saddle. They honestly look a lot like me riding into a strong head wing, progressively creeping and having to adjust again. It is uncanny how they're all doing it though. Maybe a sitting back, open hip technique is in vogue and they're having trouble adjusting to it?
Why not just move the saddle forwards to where it really should be over the bottom bracket? This looks like a perfect recipe for knee damage. How can one possibly have a fluid pedalling style while doing this? Did somebody choose an uncomfortable saddle for him based on sponsorship? Or did they set him up in the wind tunnel with an unrideable but low drag position? It looks completely amateur to me. Like a kid on his first (oversized) racing bike. Stem too long, saddle too high and too far back.
I tend to do this same thing, even on a road bike when I'm leading my team out for a sprint... for me, it could be psychological, but it makes me feel as if I put out more power out. Despite i'm not a good time trialist but I do this more in the style of dave zabriskie were I hold it at the front tfor a longer period of time then as uncomfortably sits in, i slide back and ease up my power just a little bit or i stand and sprint. Could be a mental thing w/ sliding forward like putting head down.
See, I always figured it was because my race tri shorts are made of slicker material than my everyday bike shorts. Seriously, I slide around something terrible in my tri shorts. Maybe I need to paste some sandpaper to my saddle.
a frame with shorter top tube or the extensions back to the driver. As soon the driver is in his best position (arms 45 degrees), he is sitting on the front of the saddle and uses his maximum power, as you can see.
Because of the UCI rules the saddle may not set further forward. A smaller frame with a higher seat post is also an option.
Hi,i do the same thing.Its seems to me that when i put more power into the pedals in this postion usaly when on a up incline in the road i tend to creep forward to keep the avg. speed as going on flats i hold my postion.
It's the sitbones walking forward on the saddle as your hips are rotating to contribute. All riders do this, even Spartacus (though not as pronounced as this footage of Contador.)
hossesarse 2 months ago
i assumed everyone did this.
x5cycling 2 months ago
itchy itchy
superfisto 2 months ago
The technique allows for a higher power output, particularly over short timetrials or pursuit races on the track. The rider that most notably used this technique before most other riders was Colin Sturgess, an extremely exciting rider to watch. The fact that the posion is altering slightly allows for a brief rest of the muscles. As some might be aware when riding at maximum effort it used to be said a rider was 'on the rivet' (of the saddle) . It is a deliberate, effective technique.
jurgitah 2 months ago
take a look at FABIAN CANCELLARA
badass89275 2 months ago
Great item for discussion.
innismor11 3 months ago
Your pedaling at tremendous speeds....unless your ass is bolted to the seat....your ass cheeks are going to move with your legs....it's called drag and friction. What's with all the ass play?
sawink 3 months ago
I think it may be the fact that they are pulling more on the down stroke thus pulling themselves forward a bit. I do the same thing. This guy is questioning the saddle height of professional riders that are fit by professionals? I feel some sort of stop in the front of the seat (comfortable?) would be ideal to keep them from shifting forward.
3dphreak 4 months ago
The pro tour teams may have decided that spending 3/4's of the time on the nose of the saddle creates a large enough benefit to offset the down side of having to push yourself back every few seconds. Remember you can only push your saddle so far forward and most serious time trial specialists would prefer to be further forward.
babbfamilyidaho 4 months ago
he's milking his prostate
mplayer98 5 months ago 2
Hmmm... Veddy, veddy eenteresting.
Cruzanracer 5 months ago
It happens when you ride at a high power in a time-trial position and it cannot really be fixed by fitting. The seat is tilted slight forward to make it more comfortable in a tt position. When you start to put out around 330-400 W you tend to pull more during your upstroke more than you would do riding on the hoods because you use the powerful hip flexors more. The pulling motion along with a slight forward tilt on the saddle shuffles you forward. Try it if you dont believe me.
lowrider2040 6 months ago
The mystery often has to do with variation in cadence. A faster cadence will require a shorter saddle height - the body moves forward to make this happen for the faster cadence, if the bars are brought back then they are a problem for the knees into the bars or elbows. I think there is a conflict among the ideals of saddle position - height/fore-aft, arm position, power, cadence, and aerodynamics. The solution is compromise.
roibasses 6 months ago
thats just what happens when you're putting out max effort.
xfiveonefour 6 months ago
Hi, there. Great video, nice to discuss. I'm triathlete and designer and I'm always thinking about that. If you see the Ironman, every Pros just don't use the back saddle. The manufactures never talk about it.
I'm designing something adjustable during the ride. Like two positions depending of what the rider prefer. I believe also the saddle have to be entire re-think and re-designed. Keep in touch. Best.
vegatomas@gmail.com
from Brasil.
tomasmvega 7 months ago
Zabriskie is fast, I don't care what you say about his form, he's fast.
Eugen987654321 7 months ago
Also the taint problem is not really an issue. Gell nose tt seat and you actually kinda have the nose off to the side of the taint... Very little weight is on the saddle at this level. The taint thing is not an issue in TT. Now as for a 220lb weekend warrior who gets verly little of his weight into the pedals trying to TT... now that would hurt the taint alot... Infact it would be a destroyed taint.
kidballistic 7 months ago
No, really, serious now. I used to TT a bit, the fix is simple. You must start with a saddle height that feels too high when back in the saddle therefore while on the nose it is just perfect. Contador and others slide back because thats where they mistakenly set the height at. I only slid back when I wanted a different position for muscle fatigue reasons and only briefly.... It is weird how alot of pros are really bad at TT. It is a huge waste of energy to slide back and forth...
kidballistic 7 months ago
Forget get all this, they just like the way it feels. I mean, spandex, cute little shoes... you know what I am talking about ... I am actually suprised that they are not doing it at a more frantic pace... :)
kidballistic 7 months ago
@kidballistic Very refreshing laugh after reading up to this point. LOL. ;)
jetjef007 2 weeks ago
Its cos they put so much pressure on the front bars that they are leaning forward
DIGITALH1TMAN 7 months ago
What? It happens because of hip flexor muscles being used to the max. To actually stay in the same position while riding that hard you have to be able to push backwards against the pedals and not lift up. UCI got rid of high back saddles that allowed a rider to push against it and towards the pedals (which works). Now with just using hip flexors more you are constantly contracting which causes you to creep up as that muscle contraction becomes shortened. UCI sucks, this problem can be fixed
minimcewen 7 months ago
0.37. Haha.
pedley1000 8 months ago
I think it comes from weak lower back muscles. Even on a a typical road bike if Im in the drops i tense up my back to keep it straight. Why dont they put velcro between the shorts and the saddle to stop them from moving back and forth.
khaderach19 10 months ago
@khaderach19 Harder to get out of the saddle then.... I assume
BassInsurgents 9 months ago
they're scratching their asses... i get applesauce too when i ride for a long time...either that or the sweat is making them itchy
marlo916 11 months ago
simple, they might be pro's but there bikes don't fit!!
imakingprawnok 11 months ago
move forward over crankarm creates more power but it so tiring on legs & knees. move backward less power but it is easier on legs & knees. i think it's a good technique to power up a little then relax a little. moving forward & backward.
YujiroFuma007 11 months ago
you got a point but i have a question...why in the hell are you looking at their asses???
DestroyTheseWalls 1 year ago
i think its the UCI rules. As you're not allowed to have you're saddle less then 5cm behind verticle line coming up from you're bottom bracket. this means they slide forwards to get ''onto the rivet'' to generate more power when working hard but run out of saddle to slide forward on.
the12thdiciple 1 year ago
Boring
nicholasiantyson 1 year ago
I believe there are two reasons one to be more comfortable and the more important reason is when you use do this, it taxes different muscle groups as you move forward. This effectively creates more power because your not just siting in a sold position, this helps to relax quads and gluts through the pedal stroke. I've done power tests using this sliding technique. I get higher power numbers as an end result. That's my 2 cents worth.
bikerace01 1 year ago 8
|Ergh would not like that
weepaddy123 1 year ago
I find on hard efforts I tend to creep forward on the nose, but that I can generate more power longer when I sit back and heavy on the saddle. They honestly look a lot like me riding into a strong head wing, progressively creeping and having to adjust again. It is uncanny how they're all doing it though. Maybe a sitting back, open hip technique is in vogue and they're having trouble adjusting to it?
bottasegreta 1 year ago
New technique for sure, my guess would be it allows the power of the whole legs.
sqeeeult 1 year ago
Why not just move the saddle forwards to where it really should be over the bottom bracket? This looks like a perfect recipe for knee damage. How can one possibly have a fluid pedalling style while doing this? Did somebody choose an uncomfortable saddle for him based on sponsorship? Or did they set him up in the wind tunnel with an unrideable but low drag position? It looks completely amateur to me. Like a kid on his first (oversized) racing bike. Stem too long, saddle too high and too far back.
Tricyklist 1 year ago
I tend to do this same thing, even on a road bike when I'm leading my team out for a sprint... for me, it could be psychological, but it makes me feel as if I put out more power out. Despite i'm not a good time trialist but I do this more in the style of dave zabriskie were I hold it at the front tfor a longer period of time then as uncomfortably sits in, i slide back and ease up my power just a little bit or i stand and sprint. Could be a mental thing w/ sliding forward like putting head down.
chsspartan 1 year ago
See, I always figured it was because my race tri shorts are made of slicker material than my everyday bike shorts. Seriously, I slide around something terrible in my tri shorts. Maybe I need to paste some sandpaper to my saddle.
writesdave 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The solution for this problem is, in my opinion:
a frame with shorter top tube or the extensions back to the driver. As soon the driver is in his best position (arms 45 degrees), he is sitting on the front of the saddle and uses his maximum power, as you can see.
Because of the UCI rules the saddle may not set further forward. A smaller frame with a higher seat post is also an option.
How do think about this thoughts?
johanrijwielen 1 year ago
Comment removed
johanrijwielen 1 year ago
Hi,i do the same thing.Its seems to me that when i put more power into the pedals in this postion usaly when on a up incline in the road i tend to creep forward to keep the avg. speed as going on flats i hold my postion.
Eomak 1 year ago