I think it's strange that at 0:15 you realizes that Ickx remained on the left, preparing to tangent perfectly the Eau Rouge, but suddenly, at 0:18 he brings to the car sharply to the right as if he knows that Bellof would overtakes him and he remains well to the right until the end of Down Hill, completely out of the ideal trajectory, and again brings the car to the left abruptly at 0:20, as if he wanted to close the passage of Bellof, rather than brakes and leaving it overtake!
A shame really, what a true talent Bellof was. You can't blame this crash on anyone. Just hard racing with cars that were tin cans. These group C cars hauled ass, but with materials used to make them lighter and the lack of research into crush points on cars and walls it made this impact 100x more serve. It's hard to say this about the Group C cars, as they produced great racing but they were too fast for their time. The raw power was incredible, everything else was thrown out the window.
This is racing. Going on a track with a lot of cars that reach speeds over 150 mph with uphill corners and driving close to each other is dangerous. A slight error is enough to get yourself and/or someone else killed. That's the risk of this sport.
I doubt he would take such a risk for himself to try to crash him.
Anyone trying to blame Jacky Ickx for risking this crash deliberately should bear in mind - how could Jacky have known in advance that a crash at 260 would only kill his opponent? The result of this crash could as well end up in killing Jacky instead of Stefan (or both of them).
@FreeYourMind911 of course Ickx was blocking for laps trying to destroy Bellof's strategy - this is a RACE, and in a race you do what's best for yourself (and not for your opponent). This is no "after you please" event. The two cars made contact right front (Bellof) to left rear (Ickx), thats why Ickx started spinnung counterclockwise. This should answer the question regarding Ickx's choice of line. Who reaches the corner first is to chose his way through it.
@FreeYourMind911 This is true. Sad but true. But I tend to think that - if Stefan had not died that day, he would have killed himself in motor racing in 1986 or 1987 or 1988 or some other day. Keep in mind that back in these days F1 racing was not safe either, just remember Elio de Angelis' death in 1986 in a Brabham. De mortibus nihil nisi bene, but Stefan probably was a bit too fearless considering the poor safety standards at that time.
Did Mr.Bellof die in the crash or in the fire?? and at least the announcer said that the race was abandoned most races during this era would have continued, which is sad in itself.
The doctors said he died at the Moment of impact.He was Braindead and they tried to get him back but within 50 minutes as u can hear he was prenounced dead.
The reason is that he went straight into the Wall.
Jackie I. had luck he turned so that he would not hit the wall with the front and not with the mortal speed as Stefan
mradipatti - the column was modified 'not jerry-rigged' as you put it and the court of enquiry found no case to answer. Therefore I would be very careful about making unsubstantiated allegations
Me and my dad are huge race fans. Nascar, Lemans, IRL, F1 all types. One day he was telling me about all the unfortunate fatal crashes he's seen. He told this was the only crash for where he knew immediately the driver was gone. Just looking at the front of that car is tough to watch.
Wasn't really anyone's fault...it's racing on the edge....one might argue Bellof tried to hard to get a line in on Ickx, but that's what racing drivers do.
good answer...... if it s someone´s fault ... i think is the excess of youth of bellof ... if he just waited a litle more he would probably have had catch the slipstream of ycks up the hill and pass himin the end of the straight .... that s what racing s all about... ´´a blink of an eye´´ a wrong decision and .. game over .. rip bellof ... cheers from brasil
to WindmillStalker - I agree that's car racing overall...Though, I'm daring to remark that as a pro driver Bellof made a bad mistake: instead of waiting the long straightline just out of the Eau Rouge esses he attempted to outclass Ickx in the most dangerous place of the track.
I just wonder how many laps were still
to go....had it been the last one he still had two long ultrafast sections for his
nobody s fault mate.... in that time bellof was a rising star probably the best ever german driver and ycks was an old experience driver .. the best of belgium ... in the belgium circuit spa francorchamps.... and both of them were arguing porsche´s attention ... bellof with a private porsche started 22nd and ycks in the front... bellof was flying and made the move ... ycks did not accepted and shut the door .. the rest is history dude... inmy opinion ..the excess of youth killed bellof.. cheers
Can recall Senna outdragging Mansell there in 85 but that was coming from the pits onto a damp track.Other than that I don't remember any other overtaking there involving cars at proper racing speeds,with the cars being relatively equal and without driver cooperation i.e one driver letting the other through.Fair play to Stuck for managing it.
those Porsche race cars were considered death traps by most of the drivers. There was absolutely no frontal protection for the drivers in an accident. Bobby Rahal said that the only sure way to survive an accident in one of these cars was to be sure you did not have one. Eau Rouge is a difficult corner enough. Why he chose to try a pass there, particularly where Icks would never have expected him, is forever a mystery. Too much talent, too much balls...not enough respect for a dangerous car.
you dont overtake in eau rouge...you get a run out of it and down the straightaway, the only way you could make a move like that is if you are completely side by side with the other driver...RIP Bellof
crazy move .... not impossible to overtake , i agree , but he was trying to do this in ICKS fellas ??!!!!!! he was so fuckin crazy , that icks would let him goes by that way , challenging for first position in icks country , ???!!!!!! youth anxiety that cost his life , rip bellof
and we are talking about jack icks , one of the best ever , together with senna a master in rain conditions , poor bellof , he would be a f1 champion for sure , hug from brasil
That is onboard from Jacky Ickx, the other driver. You see Bellof's car in front, with smoke coming from the nose, which had moved to basically the level of cockpit.
I'm still worried about the safety in even modern F1: if I remember rightly, prior to San Marino '94, there hadn't been an F1 death for eight years (Elio de Angelis, if I remember correctly). In '94, I, for sure, thought that the cars were practically 'bullet-proof'...and then came THAT meeting...
What a tragedy. What a talented young driver he was. World Sportcar Champion 1984, had some amazing performances with the inferior tyrell in f1 1985 and a contract with ferrari for 1986 in his pocket (and the fastes time ever driven on very demanding the old Nürburgring was driven by bellof in 1983). He could have had such an amazing future ahead of him. Ickx may have blocked Bellof the laps before, but you just CAN'T overtake at the entrance of eau rouge. It's impossible and will end badly...
Impossible de dépasser à cette endroit. L'écart de Ickx, un peu trop à droite pour aborder le mur, a laissé penser à Bellof que la porte s'ouvrait. Jamais personne n'a réussi à dépasser à cette endroit, ni en F1 ni en endurance de cette époque. Même Gilles Villeneuve n'y se serait risqué. Pourquoi Bellof a pris ce risque? Dieu et lui-même, seuls le savent. Dommage, Bellof était promis au plus bel avenir...
Ickx was shown the blue flags, I've seen a diagram that showed Ickx gave way to Bellof, but didn't back off enough. Tragic misunderstanding. A head-on crash was hard to survive in the 956. The feet were in front (!!!) of the front axle
First Winkelhock in Mosport and three weeks later Bellof. He would've been F1 champion even before Schumacher - already signed with Ferrari for 1986, doing Group C just for fun with Brun, as his F1 sponsors didn't allow him to race for the factory team
the front is the center of the car. Clear, bellof is crushed in his own car ..
"Sport prototype" of the 80" are dangerous like the groupe B.
Holy carbon fiber..
But ickx overtake bellof in front of the (new)pit,the fight is lost for bellof but at the "eau rouge" Corner, bellof push ickx and it is the crash, he is responsible of his own death. eau rouge isn't a corner for fight.
for me it is a dangerous comportement to push another car at this point.
Yeah, and not to forget ratzenberger who was killed the day before too!
The italian law claimed, that if a death happened in a sporting activety, it should be investigated at once. Threfore the race should never have been started!!!
I guess that there was too much money involved - sad sad thing, that the sport could have been without, if the rules had be followed. On the up-side, things got better from there safetywise, but maybe F1 lost a bit of its nerve aswell after that weekend.
In a way you are right, in those days it certainly was tough. But i read an article once showing the line Ickx was driving, he was making room for Bellof to pass and then he shut the door. Many racecar drivers back then said that they would have tried to pass Ickx as well in that situation. However it´s a pitty he died that day.
The racing line is not on the left, you can see from the tyre marks, even after the crash, you can see from the camera all cars stay on the right side of the road.
Plus, the blue flag is not for Icks, he was the leader
nah, there's a big thump when the car goes sideways. 100% sure that was contact. Ickx should have used his mirrors and given Bellof some room, but u have to be mad to overtake at Eau Rouge. It was in Bellof's nature (e.g the 6:11 lap of The 'Ring) to take massive risks.
he lose the control because of the touch..they did touch for sure..but thats racing...could happen anywhere every time. we should not forget and remember...al of this tragic loses...Never Forget without Bellhoff,Senna...these days we would lose Hamilton last year;Robert Kubica and many more look at the crashes in last 10 years..how many would died with the nosafetycars from the 80´s?
not sure of this, but i think ickx left bellof nowwhere to go,im guessing cos he was in front he felt he didnt have to justify giving bellof room,sad really R.I.P Bellof
Trying to overtake at Eau Rouge is suicide. Just standing look up at it, it looks terrifying. I looks almost vertical, you wonder how the hell drivers get through it. I guess Bellof must have suffered an adrenaline rush, because drivers know, you never attempt anything there, it's claimed so many lives in the past, it's just not worth it. Sadly Bellof paid wit his life.
I still miss Stefan "Stibbich" Bellof very much. He was the fastest guy of his time together with Ayrton Senna. It would have been fantastic to have these two tremendous drivers together in F1 in compaditive cars. R.I.P. Stibbich and Ayrton
icks ha doppiato un doppiato ( si sente il rombo di una macchina che accelera subito dopo il botto e che sfila via pian pianino ), bellof si è infilato provando a sfruttare l'occasione.
Oh and I just heard and saw some small videos of 1984 mônaco GP. Not even on youtube you can get to see the FIA review. It just won't go out of my mind "Why did they started that race in those conditions of rain and so on to end it when Prost had trouble and Senna was closing the gap on Prost. Senna would be 1st and Bellof 2nd!??!?? Prost would not score a single point!" I guess the answer is obvious eh?
I also don´t think Ickx is to blame for that accident. It was just a bit too brave by Bellof.Ickx was in first and held him up for a couple of laps and Bellof was desperate to find a way through.
well i'm only seeing what's on youtube and magazines. And i've only raced for fun at indoor karting. Did 2nd place tho and best race lap xD against my friend who had 4 years experience at the track. a guy who was beeing laped by me closed the door and i couldnt catch up my friend anymore. when i was close enough to make a move again -.- the race was over. =\ sad thing xD
Stupid accident. Young Bellof tried to overtake old posh ace but hit the Ickx`s back, destroyed own car`s steering system and crashed to barriers with full speed.
Is Ickx running towards Bellof`s car when it flames?
Oh boy he really thought he could overtake at the eau rouge. I think now that he tried to take the inner line for the next corner but Ickx maybe thought he backed off and...well Bellof was still close to him. You can see when Ickx realizes what happened and desperately take his seatbelt off and beat the car's door to get out and help. I think he didn't do it on purpose to throw Bellof off the track...not in that corner.
By the way: you don´t brake at Eau Rouge in dry conditons. Sometimes you stay on the throttle and brake a little bit with the left foot to stabilise the car.I think they started the Monaco GP because that were other times with less thinking about safety
No brake inside but maybe before the corner to go out of the corner faster to overtake. But if he brake inside that first dangerous corner where the car is very unstable maybe it caused him to steer into Ickx's car, i've changed my mind in the last post. once inside the corner braking is madness. "Close your eyes and floor it!" hehe
Well-probably too risky-but anyhow on most tracks faster than the "old man Ickx"-who had been shown blue flags-as Bellof tried since some time to overtake the "slower Mr. Ickx";People say,that if Ickx would have let Bellof pass this accident might never had happened! just check out, how easy Stefan overtakes Jackie on his fastest time on the nurburgring ever:6:11S Bellof was risking too much-but he was the reigning champion on the 956 since 1984-beating Ickx numerous times!Stibbich R.I.P.
Ok. The eau rouge is not a good place for overtaking....it's not even a good place to pass by at that speed! Every racer knows that...far too dangerous. Did Ickx brake? Or Belof didnt brake? Maybe a failure in Bellof's brake....Ickx did some bad things in the 1984 monaco Grand Prix but he was a good racer...and so was Bellof. I don't think Bellof was trying to make a move on Ickx at the eau rouge.
Great to see Bellof beeing remembered in Brazil,too! Even if you only remember Monaco 84, because it was Sennas first Podium:-)! In the Bellof-slideshow by BMWizardofOz you can see a picture right before they touched and from my point of view it really looks like Bellof tried to overtake. I also did some races at Spa, but I can`t see how anybody can try to overtake in that corner. At least Bellof once more proved to have big balls in the end!
How in God's name can someone try to overtake in that corner?!!??!?!?! Everyone has limits. If it was me in that 956 instead of Belof i would take of the throtle a bit (very very small bit) try to make the corner glued to ickx 956 to overtake him at the end of the straight folowing the eau rouge. Imagine you in a 900 BHP racing porsche at ....250 km/h or 260km/h through that corner!!! Still think it was a brake failure from Bellof's 956 and he tried to dodge ickx's car....cant be sure though.
(For me now races are stopped to early like this years GP at Nurburgring - its still racing and not golf ). Maybe you remember the 89 GP in Adelaide. And secondly there was a championship battle between Prost and Lauda and Prost was first in the grid, while Lauda was way behind.
fangio - you make an excellent point. Racing is fast and dangerous. Tragedy none the less, but we must remember that these men loved what they did and wnated it no other way...
Ickx had at least 50bhp more than Bellof in his factory Porsche, Bellof had been frustrated the previous laps because he was flying and Ickx was blocking. He would never have passed at the end of the straight, the factory Porsche's were too fast in a straight line... sad :(
You don´t have to be slow to be blueflagged.Its showed, when you get lapped, but also as a warning ( like in this case ), that you´re about to be overtaked!
Looks like Bellof tried to stick his nose in, when Ickx clearly had the faster car, and proper line. Looks at Ickx, he's clipped almost exactly at the apex of the first corner.
Yes, of course! This first left-bend is not a normal place to spin. Bellof tryed to overtake Ickx(in the camera-car) and hit him at the left backend of his car.
Indeed. Jacky Ickx Rothmans 956 has been tapped from behind by Stefan Bellof Shiesser 956. We can't see the scene because of the camera filming from the cockpit of Ickx's Car.
I think it's strange that at 0:15 you realizes that Ickx remained on the left, preparing to tangent perfectly the Eau Rouge, but suddenly, at 0:18 he brings to the car sharply to the right as if he knows that Bellof would overtakes him and he remains well to the right until the end of Down Hill, completely out of the ideal trajectory, and again brings the car to the left abruptly at 0:20, as if he wanted to close the passage of Bellof, rather than brakes and leaving it overtake!
pauloararaquara 3 months ago
@mrgiokay1 because it is eau rouge where they touch. Raidillon is the righthander leading uphill
Kayisadj 6 months ago
No fault on Ickx - still hard to believe this crash was fatal for Bellof.
MissEgasMoniz 9 months ago
A shame really, what a true talent Bellof was. You can't blame this crash on anyone. Just hard racing with cars that were tin cans. These group C cars hauled ass, but with materials used to make them lighter and the lack of research into crush points on cars and walls it made this impact 100x more serve. It's hard to say this about the Group C cars, as they produced great racing but they were too fast for their time. The raw power was incredible, everything else was thrown out the window.
imakeumadLOL 11 months ago
Why does everyone calls it eau rouge? it's Radion xS I go there 2 or 3 times a year!
MrGiokay1 1 year ago
This is racing. Going on a track with a lot of cars that reach speeds over 150 mph with uphill corners and driving close to each other is dangerous. A slight error is enough to get yourself and/or someone else killed. That's the risk of this sport.
I doubt he would take such a risk for himself to try to crash him.
Kinneballer36 1 year ago
Anyone trying to blame Jacky Ickx for risking this crash deliberately should bear in mind - how could Jacky have known in advance that a crash at 260 would only kill his opponent? The result of this crash could as well end up in killing Jacky instead of Stefan (or both of them).
TheColinChapman 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Bellof was a fool to try to pass at Eau-Rouge, of all places.....
lazerpod66 2 years ago
Yes but:
1. Belof was much faster and Jacky blocked him some laps
2. Stefan must overtacke him because he had sprint strategy and had to do boxstop soon
3. overlaped Car slows Ickx down in the corner(0:08)
4. so stefan had much more speed at eau rouge
5. Ickx drove provocotive to right side (0:17)
and 6. there was already stefan at left side
FreeYourMind911 2 years ago
@FreeYourMind911 of course Ickx was blocking for laps trying to destroy Bellof's strategy - this is a RACE, and in a race you do what's best for yourself (and not for your opponent). This is no "after you please" event. The two cars made contact right front (Bellof) to left rear (Ickx), thats why Ickx started spinnung counterclockwise. This should answer the question regarding Ickx's choice of line. Who reaches the corner first is to chose his way through it.
TheColinChapman 1 year ago
@TheColinChapman
yes right, but look how much place ickx have at moment he start to spins and how agressive he whell to to the left like in scooter.
very strange raceline (wide to right and than sharp left) and especialy for someone who knows that there is very fast car so close behind you
FreeYourMind911 1 year ago
@TheColinChapman
Anyway... was it Ickx fault or not, it doesn't bring Belof back.
What a shame, what a talent RIP Stefan
FreeYourMind911 1 year ago
@FreeYourMind911 This is true. Sad but true. But I tend to think that - if Stefan had not died that day, he would have killed himself in motor racing in 1986 or 1987 or 1988 or some other day. Keep in mind that back in these days F1 racing was not safe either, just remember Elio de Angelis' death in 1986 in a Brabham. De mortibus nihil nisi bene, but Stefan probably was a bit too fearless considering the poor safety standards at that time.
TheColinChapman 1 year ago
exactly.
newromantic888 2 years ago
this is from havoc 6 because i do remember the commentary
sir945 2 years ago
wow this is good quality
pilipukas123 2 years ago
Did Mr.Bellof die in the crash or in the fire?? and at least the announcer said that the race was abandoned most races during this era would have continued, which is sad in itself.
copperhead29 2 years ago
The doctors said he died at the Moment of impact.He was Braindead and they tried to get him back but within 50 minutes as u can hear he was prenounced dead.
The reason is that he went straight into the Wall.
Jackie I. had luck he turned so that he would not hit the wall with the front and not with the mortal speed as Stefan
Hiosho 2 years ago
mradipatti - the column was modified 'not jerry-rigged' as you put it and the court of enquiry found no case to answer. Therefore I would be very careful about making unsubstantiated allegations
berlinmitte10117 2 years ago
Bellof had a lapse of temporary brain fade.
Senna: how could FW have gone scot free after putting senna in a car with a jerry-rigged steering column ?
mradipatti 2 years ago
Me and my dad are huge race fans. Nascar, Lemans, IRL, F1 all types. One day he was telling me about all the unfortunate fatal crashes he's seen. He told this was the only crash for where he knew immediately the driver was gone. Just looking at the front of that car is tough to watch.
ImEastonianBitch 2 years ago
Look very carefully you can see a small patch of oil on the track almost exactly where he looses control.
llandudnoboy 3 years ago
Ickx didn't lose control - he was hit by Bellof as he attempted to pass. Oil had nothing to do with it.
poacher007 2 years ago 3
Wasn't really anyone's fault...it's racing on the edge....one might argue Bellof tried to hard to get a line in on Ickx, but that's what racing drivers do.
It's just tragic.
WindmillStalker 3 years ago 10
good answer...... if it s someone´s fault ... i think is the excess of youth of bellof ... if he just waited a litle more he would probably have had catch the slipstream of ycks up the hill and pass himin the end of the straight .... that s what racing s all about... ´´a blink of an eye´´ a wrong decision and .. game over .. rip bellof ... cheers from brasil
rdtli 2 years ago 3
to WindmillStalker - I agree that's car racing overall...Though, I'm daring to remark that as a pro driver Bellof made a bad mistake: instead of waiting the long straightline just out of the Eau Rouge esses he attempted to outclass Ickx in the most dangerous place of the track.
I just wonder how many laps were still
to go....had it been the last one he still had two long ultrafast sections for his
attempt. A kind of showing off was fatal.
I recall similarly oriented comments
back then.
indigoblue555 2 years ago
Who's fault was it? Ickx? Bellof? Bit difficult to ascertain some what? RIP Bellof anyway..
Waitingforriki 3 years ago
nobody s fault mate.... in that time bellof was a rising star probably the best ever german driver and ycks was an old experience driver .. the best of belgium ... in the belgium circuit spa francorchamps.... and both of them were arguing porsche´s attention ... bellof with a private porsche started 22nd and ycks in the front... bellof was flying and made the move ... ycks did not accepted and shut the door .. the rest is history dude... inmy opinion ..the excess of youth killed bellof.. cheers
rdtli 2 years ago
Brun Porsche, nothing front. Cockpit
The car was so fast and light, only around 800kg.
Do you know wha does this mean?
87834649 3 years ago
A great loss, Bellof was a great driver taken away by making a rash decision
Check out the reaction time of Ickx when he gets nudged by Bellof, it is unbelievable
jools182 3 years ago
Agree with Troylito.Totally ridiculous place to attempt to overtake.A very promising career gone by a mad rush of blood.
DALCOLDARA 3 years ago 3
Same said Hans-Joachim Stuck afterwards, although he overtook at exactly this spot before...the allmighty Stuck.
That's just something, that can't make me believe Stuck being "a sensational" racedriver..just an asshole like everyone else
KingSams0n 2 years ago
Can recall Senna outdragging Mansell there in 85 but that was coming from the pits onto a damp track.Other than that I don't remember any other overtaking there involving cars at proper racing speeds,with the cars being relatively equal and without driver cooperation i.e one driver letting the other through.Fair play to Stuck for managing it.
DALCOLDARA 2 years ago
oh what a worsest. what jacky ickx doing. or stefan bellof mistaken.
faiz20081998 3 years ago
those Porsche race cars were considered death traps by most of the drivers. There was absolutely no frontal protection for the drivers in an accident. Bobby Rahal said that the only sure way to survive an accident in one of these cars was to be sure you did not have one. Eau Rouge is a difficult corner enough. Why he chose to try a pass there, particularly where Icks would never have expected him, is forever a mystery. Too much talent, too much balls...not enough respect for a dangerous car.
Troylito 3 years ago 3
you dont overtake in eau rouge...you get a run out of it and down the straightaway, the only way you could make a move like that is if you are completely side by side with the other driver...RIP Bellof
r3sistanc3god 3 years ago
ok , now i see , the one in front of icks is been lapped down , now i saw carefully , what an impact , rip bellof
rdtli 3 years ago
crazy move .... not impossible to overtake , i agree , but he was trying to do this in ICKS fellas ??!!!!!! he was so fuckin crazy , that icks would let him goes by that way , challenging for first position in icks country , ???!!!!!! youth anxiety that cost his life , rip bellof
and we are talking about jack icks , one of the best ever , together with senna a master in rain conditions , poor bellof , he would be a f1 champion for sure , hug from brasil
rdtli 3 years ago
i don't get it.. how did he die? he was still moving after the crash isn't he? he was trying to get out of the car.
noone09 3 years ago
That is onboard from Jacky Ickx, the other driver. You see Bellof's car in front, with smoke coming from the nose, which had moved to basically the level of cockpit.
yoink781 3 years ago
i see now.. thanks for your answer..
noone09 3 years ago
you're welcome.
yoink781 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
im bored. ne1 that wants 2 chat with a hot 18F
want 2 have cybrsex ? check out my profile and msg me on M.S.N!! ai
10lovehaley 3 years ago
How did the crash happen?
r0fflec0pt 3 years ago
Bellof tried to go around the outside of Ickx at the entrance of Eau Rogue...a very, very questionable move.
WSBT960 3 years ago
Trueee, Truee, but sometimes dats wat Racing is,my dear friend. RIP Bellof.
insatiable2rossi 3 years ago
but its strange he let icks goes by and then try the move ??? what the ??????
rdtli 3 years ago
I'm still worried about the safety in even modern F1: if I remember rightly, prior to San Marino '94, there hadn't been an F1 death for eight years (Elio de Angelis, if I remember correctly). In '94, I, for sure, thought that the cars were practically 'bullet-proof'...and then came THAT meeting...
marsvltor2 3 years ago
0:28 - that driver was okay an climbed out,
RIP Bellof!
Brett140 3 years ago
What a tragedy. What a talented young driver he was. World Sportcar Champion 1984, had some amazing performances with the inferior tyrell in f1 1985 and a contract with ferrari for 1986 in his pocket (and the fastes time ever driven on very demanding the old Nürburgring was driven by bellof in 1983). He could have had such an amazing future ahead of him. Ickx may have blocked Bellof the laps before, but you just CAN'T overtake at the entrance of eau rouge. It's impossible and will end badly...
FrankHa82 3 years ago
icks didn´t recognize the blue flag!
sfg1234 3 years ago
Wrong. Bellof push ickx and it is the crash, he is responsible of his own death.
eau rouge isn't a corner for overtaking.
nfdids 3 years ago 2
He isnt responsable for his own death!
It was a fucking accident, think about it before posting such dumb comments!
You can overtake in Eau Rouge its not impossible. This was just the worst case.
ScarfaceHood 3 years ago
When I said he was responsible i didn´t said exactly it was his fault cuz everyone makes mistakes.
The entrance of eau rouge isn´t for overtaking but the 2nd corner of eau rouge is more easily to overtake...
nfdids 3 years ago
Impossible de dépasser à cette endroit. L'écart de Ickx, un peu trop à droite pour aborder le mur, a laissé penser à Bellof que la porte s'ouvrait. Jamais personne n'a réussi à dépasser à cette endroit, ni en F1 ni en endurance de cette époque. Même Gilles Villeneuve n'y se serait risqué. Pourquoi Bellof a pris ce risque? Dieu et lui-même, seuls le savent. Dommage, Bellof était promis au plus bel avenir...
merdenboit 3 years ago
Ickx was shown the blue flags, I've seen a diagram that showed Ickx gave way to Bellof, but didn't back off enough. Tragic misunderstanding. A head-on crash was hard to survive in the 956. The feet were in front (!!!) of the front axle
First Winkelhock in Mosport and three weeks later Bellof. He would've been F1 champion even before Schumacher - already signed with Ferrari for 1986, doing Group C just for fun with Brun, as his F1 sponsors didn't allow him to race for the factory team
tommy9927 3 years ago
@ Polaris502 ???
look at the front of the car!!!
Pikschwarz 3 years ago
the front is the center of the car. Clear, bellof is crushed in his own car ..
"Sport prototype" of the 80" are dangerous like the groupe B.
Holy carbon fiber..
But ickx overtake bellof in front of the (new)pit,the fight is lost for bellof but at the "eau rouge" Corner, bellof push ickx and it is the crash, he is responsible of his own death. eau rouge isn't a corner for fight.
for me it is a dangerous comportement to push another car at this point.
nobody can makes that at this corner.
HondaRacingDevellopm 3 years ago
Did he die from he fire or the impact?
Polaris502 3 years ago
that inside onboard cam of that guy was okay, but sad death of bellof
Brett140 3 years ago
its a shunt for sure
makvarochapollo 3 years ago
Thankfully Ickx hit the barrier with the rear, rather than head on like Bellof did. That fact saved Ickx's life.
WSBT960 3 years ago
yep the latest F1 racing magazine says that Bellof tried to pass Ickx going through eau rouge. He must have had massive courage. RIP
JeanAlesi90 3 years ago 5
As a sign of DISRESPECT, Charlie and Benie decided to keep Imola Race running after Senna's fatal crash.
I really hate those two fcking arsholes...
FanFisique 3 years ago
Yeah, and not to forget ratzenberger who was killed the day before too!
The italian law claimed, that if a death happened in a sporting activety, it should be investigated at once. Threfore the race should never have been started!!!
I guess that there was too much money involved - sad sad thing, that the sport could have been without, if the rules had be followed. On the up-side, things got better from there safetywise, but maybe F1 lost a bit of its nerve aswell after that weekend.
testacorsa150 3 years ago 5
you are right! It started with 1970 Munich...."the games must go on"!
Crazy!!!!
dcddjc 3 years ago
It sounds familiar...put SHOW instead...that´s what is all about.
FanFisique 3 years ago
FanFisique right, but my comment about was a quotation "Olympic Games".
dcddjc 3 years ago
Munich was 1972 not 1970!
knebworth92 3 years ago
you are like a german....ha ha ha thank you.
dcddjc 3 years ago
bellof partly caused his own death - trying to overtake in Eau Rouge just isnt possible.
kostas22 4 years ago
In a way you are right, in those days it certainly was tough. But i read an article once showing the line Ickx was driving, he was making room for Bellof to pass and then he shut the door. Many racecar drivers back then said that they would have tried to pass Ickx as well in that situation. However it´s a pitty he died that day.
heinzbecker1980 4 years ago 3
The racing line is not on the left, you can see from the tyre marks, even after the crash, you can see from the camera all cars stay on the right side of the road.
Plus, the blue flag is not for Icks, he was the leader
rosun82 4 years ago
you are right, in the video i could see Icks not totaly turning left and trying to give some space to Bellof.
nfdids 3 years ago
you're not supposed to overtake there, all teams in any series ar warned to ovettake there, is it by own risk
Brooney1 3 years ago
Even in GTR game is dangerous.
nfdids 3 years ago
kostas22 - are you sure? as I saw the video I had the impress that Ickx lose control over his car?!
dcddjc 3 years ago
nah, there's a big thump when the car goes sideways. 100% sure that was contact. Ickx should have used his mirrors and given Bellof some room, but u have to be mad to overtake at Eau Rouge. It was in Bellof's nature (e.g the 6:11 lap of The 'Ring) to take massive risks.
kostas22 3 years ago
kostas22 - thank you very much for your feedback! I appreciate!
You are right - I watched it more times and now I saw too the thump you have talking about.
Sad sad sad - such a beautiful sport with incredible dramatic finishes!
dcddjc 3 years ago
OF COURSE !!! EAU ROUGE IS DANGEROUS! Even in GTR game trying to overtake in that corner you need to have courage.
nfdids 3 years ago
he lose the control because of the touch..they did touch for sure..but thats racing...could happen anywhere every time. we should not forget and remember...al of this tragic loses...Never Forget without Bellhoff,Senna...these days we would lose Hamilton last year;Robert Kubica and many more look at the crashes in last 10 years..how many would died with the nosafetycars from the 80´s?
Hiosho 3 years ago
Merci. Parce que cette vidéo reste très pudique, mais déjà trop longue...
Latitude4850Nord 4 years ago
But... Bellof is ahead or ago, Which these two cars?
gabrieljuventus 4 years ago
I suppose so, but that had to be shows from another angle.
keijimuto 4 years ago
not sure of this, but i think ickx left bellof nowwhere to go,im guessing cos he was in front he felt he didnt have to justify giving bellof room,sad really R.I.P Bellof
woodymcruk 4 years ago
Trying to overtake at Eau Rouge is suicide. Just standing look up at it, it looks terrifying. I looks almost vertical, you wonder how the hell drivers get through it. I guess Bellof must have suffered an adrenaline rush, because drivers know, you never attempt anything there, it's claimed so many lives in the past, it's just not worth it. Sadly Bellof paid wit his life.
PW140282 4 years ago
I still miss Stefan "Stibbich" Bellof very much. He was the fastest guy of his time together with Ayrton Senna. It would have been fantastic to have these two tremendous drivers together in F1 in compaditive cars. R.I.P. Stibbich and Ayrton
schusselam 4 years ago 2
icks ha doppiato un doppiato ( si sente il rombo di una macchina che accelera subito dopo il botto e che sfila via pian pianino ), bellof si è infilato provando a sfruttare l'occasione.
chiuso, c'è poco da raccontare :(
gnubboleso 4 years ago
Oh and I just heard and saw some small videos of 1984 mônaco GP. Not even on youtube you can get to see the FIA review. It just won't go out of my mind "Why did they started that race in those conditions of rain and so on to end it when Prost had trouble and Senna was closing the gap on Prost. Senna would be 1st and Bellof 2nd!??!?? Prost would not score a single point!" I guess the answer is obvious eh?
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
I also don´t think Ickx is to blame for that accident. It was just a bit too brave by Bellof.Ickx was in first and held him up for a couple of laps and Bellof was desperate to find a way through.
fangio58 4 years ago
well i'm only seeing what's on youtube and magazines. And i've only raced for fun at indoor karting. Did 2nd place tho and best race lap xD against my friend who had 4 years experience at the track. a guy who was beeing laped by me closed the door and i couldnt catch up my friend anymore. when i was close enough to make a move again -.- the race was over. =\ sad thing xD
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
Stupid accident. Young Bellof tried to overtake old posh ace but hit the Ickx`s back, destroyed own car`s steering system and crashed to barriers with full speed.
Is Ickx running towards Bellof`s car when it flames?
MargusKiistheCritic 4 years ago
I think you can see Ickxes blue/white overall next to Bellofs car right before the red marshalls-car drives to Ickxes car, but I´m not sure!
fangio58 4 years ago
Oh boy he really thought he could overtake at the eau rouge. I think now that he tried to take the inner line for the next corner but Ickx maybe thought he backed off and...well Bellof was still close to him. You can see when Ickx realizes what happened and desperately take his seatbelt off and beat the car's door to get out and help. I think he didn't do it on purpose to throw Bellof off the track...not in that corner.
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
By the way: you don´t brake at Eau Rouge in dry conditons. Sometimes you stay on the throttle and brake a little bit with the left foot to stabilise the car.I think they started the Monaco GP because that were other times with less thinking about safety
fangio58 4 years ago
No brake inside but maybe before the corner to go out of the corner faster to overtake. But if he brake inside that first dangerous corner where the car is very unstable maybe it caused him to steer into Ickx's car, i've changed my mind in the last post. once inside the corner braking is madness. "Close your eyes and floor it!" hehe
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
Well-probably too risky-but anyhow on most tracks faster than the "old man Ickx"-who had been shown blue flags-as Bellof tried since some time to overtake the "slower Mr. Ickx";People say,that if Ickx would have let Bellof pass this accident might never had happened! just check out, how easy Stefan overtakes Jackie on his fastest time on the nurburgring ever:6:11S Bellof was risking too much-but he was the reigning champion on the 956 since 1984-beating Ickx numerous times!Stibbich R.I.P.
icebird1961 4 years ago 3
I agree.
Risk makes heroes.
Sect1993 4 years ago
And heros die
rosun82 4 years ago
Ok. The eau rouge is not a good place for overtaking....it's not even a good place to pass by at that speed! Every racer knows that...far too dangerous. Did Ickx brake? Or Belof didnt brake? Maybe a failure in Bellof's brake....Ickx did some bad things in the 1984 monaco Grand Prix but he was a good racer...and so was Bellof. I don't think Bellof was trying to make a move on Ickx at the eau rouge.
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
Great to see Bellof beeing remembered in Brazil,too! Even if you only remember Monaco 84, because it was Sennas first Podium:-)! In the Bellof-slideshow by BMWizardofOz you can see a picture right before they touched and from my point of view it really looks like Bellof tried to overtake. I also did some races at Spa, but I can`t see how anybody can try to overtake in that corner. At least Bellof once more proved to have big balls in the end!
fangio58 4 years ago
How in God's name can someone try to overtake in that corner?!!??!?!?! Everyone has limits. If it was me in that 956 instead of Belof i would take of the throtle a bit (very very small bit) try to make the corner glued to ickx 956 to overtake him at the end of the straight folowing the eau rouge. Imagine you in a 900 BHP racing porsche at ....250 km/h or 260km/h through that corner!!! Still think it was a brake failure from Bellof's 956 and he tried to dodge ickx's car....cant be sure though.
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
(For me now races are stopped to early like this years GP at Nurburgring - its still racing and not golf ). Maybe you remember the 89 GP in Adelaide. And secondly there was a championship battle between Prost and Lauda and Prost was first in the grid, while Lauda was way behind.
fangio58 4 years ago
fangio - you make an excellent point. Racing is fast and dangerous. Tragedy none the less, but we must remember that these men loved what they did and wnated it no other way...
thanks for sharing the vid.
tuberstank 4 years ago 2
Ickx had at least 50bhp more than Bellof in his factory Porsche, Bellof had been frustrated the previous laps because he was flying and Ickx was blocking. He would never have passed at the end of the straight, the factory Porsche's were too fast in a straight line... sad :(
jlc89tk 4 years ago
Look at the state of the car.....God have mercy.
filipe9thcmd 4 years ago
you don't pass at Eau Rouge - ever
cscott001 4 years ago
if you want to see a picture right before and during the accident, watch my slideshow with pictures of Bellof.
It´s a pitty other camera angles where never released, because I think there is no way the camera man wouldn´t be on a fight for the lead.
BMWizardofOz 4 years ago
impressive!nurburgring master rip
xt3po 4 years ago
Before the impact you can see a marshall waving the blue flag. Was Ickx that slow?
brielserak53 4 years ago
You don´t have to be slow to be blueflagged.Its showed, when you get lapped, but also as a warning ( like in this case ), that you´re about to be overtaked!
fangio58 4 years ago
Looks like Bellof tried to stick his nose in, when Ickx clearly had the faster car, and proper line. Looks at Ickx, he's clipped almost exactly at the apex of the first corner.
estisfatuus 4 years ago
is there anyother shot of the crash? the accident is not visible
fran812 4 years ago
It´s the onlyone ( as far as i know )
fangio58 4 years ago
did the guy in the car with the onboard get tapped from behind?
delrcr05 4 years ago
Yes, of course! This first left-bend is not a normal place to spin. Bellof tryed to overtake Ickx(in the camera-car) and hit him at the left backend of his car.
fangio58 4 years ago
Indeed. Jacky Ickx Rothmans 956 has been tapped from behind by Stefan Bellof Shiesser 956. We can't see the scene because of the camera filming from the cockpit of Ickx's Car.
ElGladiateur 4 years ago
Yeah. Stefan Bellof was following Jacky Ickx. Bellof tried passing Ickx through the Eau Rouge corner.
imola94 4 years ago