Freehand vs Illustrator Round 2

[MrSalline]

Even Inkscape beats Ai. And it's free!

[rdsathene]

It's interesting that all the Adobe fanboys keep saying lean how to use AI without explaining what steps or techniques they would use in lieu of those in the video. I'm stuck with AI 5.1 now and am astonished at how counterintuitive and poorly thought out the software is. Please, rather than attacking the creator of this video, tell us how you overcome the very glaring shortcommings pointed out here. I'm used to taking 30 steps instead of 1 isn't much of a rebuttal when there's work to be done

[NewLakes]

What a ridiculous video.

[bltufford]

Freehand kicks Illustrator's ass every time. It is just so fast and intuitive that I still use it almost every day. It does have some issues (colours, pdf's, etc.) but for drawing tools it can't be beat. Illustrator is just maddeningly difficult and cumbersome in comparison.

[bukle4]

You got a idiot with the illutrator and the free hand too FOR GOD !!!! DIE FREE HAND DIE!!!!

[Descalabro]

Since most of you seem to be experienced users maybe you can help me:

I Freehand you could draw a straight line and use the Direct Selection tool at any point between its edges to make a curve. Is there any way to do this in Illustrator without resorting to the bezier handles?

[maeric9]

@Descalabro Yes! You can buy the $139 plugin for Illustrator (Xstream Path) and then you can bend a line like you can for free in FreeHand MX.

[luiscadcam1]

well pixero, at least you've created something to argue about, I can tell.hehe

it seems that there are no final conclusion, like with women: blonde? redhair? morena?...

[luiscadcam1]

well pixero, at least you've created something to argue about, I can tell.hehe

[bidibum]

This vid is factious, and you know this.

[maeric9]

I did some tests using faster methods in AI CS4 to be more fair with this video:

STARTUP: Same

STARS: New time 30 sec. Used Star Tool, add spikes, Offset Path & delete original star

ZOOM: Same

ROUND CORNER: New time 45 sec. Make Round Rectangle & overlay Circle, Pathfinder Minus for concave corner, Copy/Paste shape to bottom & use Pathfinder Minus again

SELECT & MOVE: New time 10 sec. Isolation Mode

TEXT ON PATH: New time 1.5 min. Split Circle, Type on upper & lower curve, adjust

Part 1

[maeric9]

Part 2. Comparing my times to ones in the video show better speeds in AI CS4 but I couldn’t beat FreeHand in any test. I did try Effect>Stylize>Round Corner but it rounds ALL the inside corners. Also problems matching FHs precise angles quickly because its Object Panel functions were in one spot instead of spread around.

Conclusion: AI has many features for artists but if speed & precision are important, go FreeHand. Adobe would be smart to let it be a legitimate choice alongside Illustrator.

[almasrdjan]

You know what?! The problem is not the Illustrator, the problem is YOU buddy! Learn to use it and then compared.

But, like many things in our lives, is question about taste more than anything.

[zombiepic]

what about fireworks?

[morfytastic]

This is like a guy who drives a manual explaining why stick shifts are slower. They're only slower if you don't know how to drive them...

[olli3chakraverty]

it would be better if he could use illustrator

[picaae]

yeah, would be nice if the ai person knew how to work ai :P

[garytrucks]

re: the stars comparison. is ILLUSTRATOR'S "rounded corners" effect too fast to use when comparing these programs? guess so!

[XIII2]

This is a great video. You should have included how the god damn pen tool is a disaster in silly little illy...or how copying and pasting attributes is easy in FH.

After two years using Illustrator i keep getting more and more frustrated by time simple tasks that you do loads of times take you and how imprecise AI is.

[efenagore]

You now uses freehand to make a table of 300 rows, 300 columns and center the text with a particular style ... ups! also creates a way for more tables and ... ups! maybe you finished tomorrow ...

Now learn to use Illustrator, InDesign and Photoshop ... Welcome to the XXI century!

[mambodogau]

seeing all these humorous text conversations makes me think of monkey island

[readz]

erm...how about coreldraw vs illustrator?? i already love coreldraw rather than illustrator...

really headache when selecting object and change color in illustrator....i didn't understand why many people and company still in love with illustrator....

i'll try to using freehand after these...compare with corel....thanks a lot for this video...

[acarocacaro]

[and i believed i was the only one who thought Ai sucks!]

[crewzta]

Freehand is way better. I hate illustrator!

[mingdesuka]

is it easy to switch from illustrator to freehand? are the shortkeys the same? btw, i dont really get it at 4:00, the selecting and moving part. dont you usually work in layers (and lock the layer you dont use) so you won't select wrong anchor points by accident?

[Xdream017]

Both Freehand and Illustrator are great software.

If you want to compare both software, you should compare about compatibility with other software (like photoshop indesign or quark) and export, import features, and print production...

- This last one is the most important feature... and i think illustrator is better in this one...

The multiple page battle? forget it. if you want to create a document with multiple pages use an appropriate software like indesign or quark.

[SonOfKwisatzHaderach]

AND... If you shop around...

You can buy 2 copies of Freehand and 2 G-Series Macs to run it on for the cost of 1 copy of Indesign... ha ha ha

[SonOfKwisatzHaderach]

The difference between

Freehand and Illustrator

is very much like the

difference between

Mac and PC

My 8 year old Mac has never missed

a beat, in the same time I've seen

3 Windows machines byte the dust (sic)

In 'REAL' work-flow scenarios

FREEHAND clubs Illustrator to Death !

[nicoloco71]

What's the use of this video? frankly it's obviously made by a bloke who's not an Illustrator expert, ah ah, two minutes to make a round shaped star tryin to move anchor points (choose Polygon tool, drag using arrow keys, filter->round corner and that's it no more that 20 seconds to do so). I was a Freehand fan in the 90 and still think that it got few efficient tools.

[art101tv]

Brilliant and funny. AI fans seem to forget that Adobe gobbled up Macromedia to get its claws around other programs it wanted, then killed all FH development. FH users were shut out. AI fans are welcome to it; most FH users find it lumpy and bloated. Adobe's cavalier disregard is shameful. The acquisition should not have been permitted by the feds without a strict mandate that Adobe could not kill its only real competitor. Monopoly is bad for all, no matter which program we prefer.

[bichomaldito]

The problem with this clips is that the guy tries to use I-CS4 exactly the same way he uses FH. No wonder things get screwed up in I-CS4. I can make this exercises (select, draw, round corners) twice as fast in I-CS4 by using a different method (filters, effects, align, transform, 'object' menu, lock shape, etc)

[ChemeketaMonkey]

I have used AI for the past 3 years now, and have used FH since 1997. Both are great, except:

Pen Tool - FH is easier

Anchor Point manipulation - FH is easier

Multiple Page Feature - CS4 now allows multiple pages. Freehand has done that for a long time. CS3 users still need to create an oversized document and then save as a multi-page PDF.

COLLECT FOR OUTPUT - If you don't know what this is, Illustrator users should stick to embedding their placed images and converting type to outlines.

CB

[jzarracina]

Agreed. Also I'd point out that the Pen Tool and Anchor point manipulation are the FOUNDATIONS of a vector drawing program. If AI don't improve those two, It doesn't matter how many features and filters keep adding to the Illustrator behemoth

[brandnewgod]

So you like Freehand. It works best for you. Great... good for you but this is clearly a biased comparison.

You obviously don't have the experience with Illustrator. The star task in Illustrator is a joke which is where I stopped taking the comparison seriously.

I began using Freehand over 10 years ago and moved to Illustrator because it was less fiddly and more intuitive.

Illustrator is very far from perfect but Freehand is not the answer I'm afraid.

[leftnotracks]

People who think this about FreeHand vs Illustrator just don't get it. Sure we can pick and choose to find one or four useful features where Illustrator beats FreeHand. But so what?

This is about how FreeHand Kicks the Shit out of Illustrator, Then Steals its Girlfriend. Four year old FreeHand batters Illustrator in many BASIC drawing features. 15 year old FreeHand 4 would do almost as well, and launch time wouldn't be half, it would be half a percent. How humiliating is that?

[leftnotracks]

Adobe thinks we don't care how shitty Illustrator is, so they just pile on new half-features (features not ready for release and never improved). One day Illustrator will be so slow, fat and buggy even Adobe will notice. They will have no choice but to scrap it and build a new drawing program with the features, speed, stability, quality and interface we have deserved for twenty years.

Until that day, we all need to shout from the rooftops about what a steaming turd of fuckup Illustrator is.

[davidworni]

stupid compareing. looks like you dont know Illustrator.

[ephemerol]

freehand still rules.

[mgurgun]

I can't even think what graphic design would look like today if the Freehand had been developed all those years. Surely we would have a much better visual surrounding. I am still using FH11 on my 8core 12Gb mac. And im loving it.

[5166VRG]

The tool doesn't make a great design, the creative process behind the tool does. If you depend on your tools to be create captivating visuals than you have a flawed creative process to say the least.

[MRINTERDOG]

This is nothing, compare Fireworks to Photoshop

[msf1967]

I miss FreeHand. I can't produce the way I was able to. I was hoping when Adobe bought Macromedia it would take on some off the qualities, but it really hasn't happened.

Illustrator finally has multipage documents, however like most of the tools/techniques in Illustrator it is more complicated then it needs to be. Keep it simple stupid.

[msf1967]

But FreeHand was such a fluid program to create comps for me. The multi-page ability was an amazing help to organize my ideas. Brainstorming in Illustrator always looked like one of those horrible hoarders' houses. In FreeHand, I could separate each idea and selectively print without effort. In addition, I just felt I could quickly get ideas out. However Illustrator seemed to be bogged down with too many steps to get to the same result...

[msf1967]

Illustrator was the very first design program I learned. That was way back on those little black & white Mac SE's. Seems like a hundred years ago...

[5166VRG]

Adobe won't be updating the core build methods in Ai anytime soon. Mainly because their marketing department can't promote or sell a new version based on improving old tools or methods. They need NEW feature blot like the "Blob Brush" so they can make their stockholders happy and justify the new version of the software.

Ai has trumps FreeHand with better gradient controls, blend modes, color display on screen, secondary plugins etc. But this vid is just ignorant regarding several points.

[elvisalien123]

@5166VRG

Better gradient controls? Only as of CS4, along with multipage, FINALLY. No paste inside still sucks BIG TIME.

[1pixero]

You seem to have missed the point. Freehand has NOT been developed in over six years. Illustrator has. Of cause Illustrator has some great features that Freehand hasn't. These movies doesn't compare features. They just show some things that Freehand users find hardest to do in Illustrator.

[5166VRG]

I'm not missing the point. The person who made this video was well intentioned, but ignorant of how to flow text on a path. It's his lack of Ai knowledge because it's not as hard as he makes it look.

But I do FULLY agree that FreeHand was and is far more intuitive than Ai. That we can agree on 100%.

[monovoxpdx]

I agree that Illustrator has a lot of frustrating things about it, but the problem here is that this is very biased. The illustrator side is presented as if you are coming from years of freehand and have hardly used illustrator.

Listen, I loved a lot of things about Freehand, I was sad to see it go (they kept adobe on on their toes!). But the one thing I don't miss is dealing with freehand in prepress! Weird postscript, files that would never rip correctly, or at all...still makes me shutter.

[elvisalien123]

@monovoxpdx

yeah, lots. LOTS. Biased? You mean subjective. Guess what? EVERYTHING is subjective.

Prepress, huh? Well, I've delivered hundreds of files for print output of one kind or another and never had a single problem. Not one.

[PeteMason]

lol nicely done :-D

But now I'm sure this vid will trigger my old anxiety dreams about demoing FH and the power fails, or all my demo files get erased just beforehand, etc etc

[HonkyMcFunky]

AI is an amazing program (especially the current version). It has a lot of stuff that's mind-blowingly good. But there are some things, the basic, fundamental, use-them-hundreds-of-times-a-d­ay things, that AI does so ineptly that it makes you want to put your fist through a wall (one of my designers actually did on one occasion). The fact that there are designers who prefer Freehand over Illustrator SIX YEARS after FH development ceased ought to tell you all you need to know about the two apps.

[ottovonbisquick]

@HonkyMcFunky That's exactly right. Freehand excelled at production work and anything that required precision. I used Freehand to do some CAD-like product design at a time when AI couldn't draw a box at a specified size. I miss it (all AI shop now).

[elvisalien123]

@HonkyMcFunky EXACTLY. Yes. This is the point exactly.

[jzarracina]

Indeed, totally agree-well said

[Individuo80]

@HonkyMcFunky You nailed it right on the head. FH is made for the everyday stuff (which usually involves urgent changes and short deadlines), AI is made for complex exceptions.

[PeePeeFartz]

I have nothing against Freehand, but the person who made this video kinda gives himself away as being not too smart right off the bat with all the pathetically awful spelling and grammar. If Freehand still works then use it and shut the fuck up.

[elvisalien123]

@PeePeeFartz

Pee Pee Fartz? Hmmm, hard to take you seriously, pal. And, clearly, English isn't his first language. FreeHand has a huge international following--in fact it's only in the USA that the sheep can be so easily corralled into Illustrator drones. Git?

[1pixero]

Complaining about my spelling and grammar is low. Yes, english is not my native language. I wonder...how good are YOU in Swedish? Skriv nåt på svenska så vi alla får oss ett gott skratt.

[Symmetriq]

This is complete and utter nonsense. Illustrator may be harder to learn, but it's by far the more powerful and capable tool. Put it this way: if you don't know how to use Illustrator properly, you have no business comparing the two programs. End of story.

[elvisalien123]

@Symmetriq

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. I use both programs and yes, Illustrator has strengths that I appreciate. But for just getting the basic layout work done quickly, fluidly, ENJOYABLY, FreeHand is by FAR the better of the two. Period. Subjectively speaking, of course.

[Symmetriq]

Then you don't know what you're talking about. "Period."

[elvisalien123]

@Symmetriq Good comeback. Jeez, I am humbled by that one. Don't know what I'm talking about, okaaaaaaay. Moving right along...

[jzarracina]

@Symetriq. You don't know what you're talking about,

I have been working professionally with AI and FH everyday for years. I know to use AI properly and still I PREFER Freehand by countless reasons, specially in tight deadlines.

But the main point is that I should be entitled to compare and decide which is the "most powerful and capable tool" and buy it. If Adobe keeps holding an unfair monopoly on the vector drawing market, all consumers and users are unfavorably affected

[melgross]

I don'y appreciate the put-down of Illustrator users.

I used both programs from the beginning. Each one had its good points and its bad points. Freehand had some usability benefits, but Illustrator allowed you to do more.

The idea that we, as Illustrator users, didn't know Freehand well enough to appreciate its superiority is nonsense. Perhaps he doesn't understand Illustrator well enough.

[dadohead]

This Illustrator "user" is completely retarded. Learn to use the Pathfinder tool, idiot!

[Metronome49]

Garbage... I started with Freehand, but AI is better. It's like those terrible TV commercials where someone in black & white fumbles stupidly while doing something simple, then looks at the camera and says "There has to be a better way!" As said before... hatchet job.

Try this side by side... Freehand, how long does it take you to do a gradient mesh? Forever? Because you can't do it? Guess it'll be hard making hyperrealistic vector art, huh? Your really good at gingerbread cookies though! Yay!

[praxisOO7]

Well... I gues you're also from the bunch that prefer Carbon to Cocoa...

[jotae9]

Another point more:

Illustrator = illustration

Freehand = design

Not the same thing in 1 million years.

Who needs gradient meshes, complicate blending options, text hyperreflows and other devilish stuff?

The graphic design market needs things made simplier. Its a matter of HERE&NOW.

No graphic designer needs such tools to deisgn a logo. FH can do things faster & allowing faster changes or design versions... Easiness is hidden in AI, is asking too much to make things easier and more rational?

[Metronome49]

@jotae9

That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.

You're probably one of those people that fancies themselves a designer but doesn't know InDesign or Quark.

Freehand and Illustrator are competing products, don't get caught up on the names.

What design needs are people that can learn complicated tools, not "designers" that want everything to be as simple as possible so the field can be muddled down with hobbyists.Try pasteup sometime, and talk about how simple design is supposed to be.

[jotae9]

@Metronome

Quite a month long, but still...

You're the one who should not talk without knowing...

I'm no fancy guy nor freshman out from the school.

I've been running my design studio for 10 years now and I am even tired of doing editorial design wether is on Quark or InDesign, Both of wich I expertise. And no, design doesn't need complicated tools. What design needs is complex (wich is rather different than complicated) ideas beign done whit easier methods. What are you afraid of? (follow)

[jotae9]

(following)

There always will be hobbyists. Its a matter of fact. Our goal as true professional designers we are, is to achieve the best work we can. Excellence is hard to get, still we cannot move away from the path that leads to it, even if we fail... Hobbyists, design pretenders and so on, will fall alone. They lack the background of the "project" mentality.

Actually it doesn't even matter if I use FH or AI, I even wish I wont use any of them so I could spend more time on the real project...

[jotae9]

... just thinking, designing and, in a word, Focusing on the real thing...

Back to AI, my thought is that Hyland, Frost, Meta and other leading studios or designers, didn't need gradient meshes, and other complicated tools to do most of their everlsting works.

Who needs to destory a text set in Helvetica or Franklin Gothic or DIN, etc?

If your projects needs fireworks to be seen or to look more valuable it ain't a good one...

For me, there isnt anything else than project, project and project

[RedBall75]

Yep. If you have lie to make your point, then what's the point?

[elvisalien123]

@RedBall75 The point? The point lies in the fact that Illustrator fans are even here trying to defend an application that has had years of development to improve while FreeHand was shelved--and we're still here debating five or seven years later (depending on how you count). It's obvious that Illustrator still has serious shortcomings and Adobe has their collective head in the sand. We shouldn't be having this conversation in 2009. That's the point.

[jaredigital]

Nice hatchet job. Freehand may be great, but the author clearly used Illustrator like a complete fool to make his point.

[RedBall75]

I haven't used Freehand in over a decade, so I don't know much about it. I see now it does many things much better than Illustrator, but to be fair, the person using Illustrator in this video doesn't know how to use it properly. I could replicate these objects in Illustrator in probably a tenth the amount of time he spends. I mean, honestly. Who selects one anchor point at a time using the direct selection tool? Ever?!

[gustavoPJones]

20 years ago, I was using these products to do advertising and forms for a bank. I got things done faster in FreeHand. Ancient history, clearly, but why I'm not surprised that FH still has its fans. But, I don't want to see Illustrator misrepresented, so perhaps you could post a video of your timings for the above exercises in Illustrator. (Or any one.) Thanks.

[tchatcho66]

Im a FreeHand user... since Adobe did use obscure technics to kill FH i do not use Adobe products anymore. I switch Flash to Silverlight and so on. That was a great choice and im very happy... adobe is a monopolist piece of S****... they make you think that your world will end if you stop to using their products. Pls do the same for your life, try something else. AND PLEAAASE ADOBE, RELEASE FREEHAND SOURCECODE!! Do something good for the community that gave you life.

[AprilFoolsRock]

thanks for the demo. FreeHand rules!!!!!

[bobotron50]

This is a great idea. But I agree that it should be a side-by-side comparison of a freehand pro and an Illustrator pro. The illustrator "mouse" was moving slower, and there are other tools in Illustrator to get some of these things done faster.

But Freehand is the faster tool to get things done. I think there's more examples to show, like the paste inside, multiple effects on an item, blending objects along a path, selecting items on top/inside of each other, etc. Lets hear em FHD users!

[maeric9]

I too agree that there are quicker ways to accomplish some of these techniques in Illustrator. It would only shave several seconds off the result, tho. The last test of right-side-up type on a circle is a pain to do in Illustrator!

(I hope viewers have already seen Part 1 of this series: Paste Inside, Selecting Layered Objects and Groups.)

[1pixero]

The way I select and move in Illustrator IN THE MOVIE is because using rectangle select is the most common way of quickly selecting in any app. Illustrator excluded.

Both Round 1 & 2 has several passes where the Freehand mouse is slower and clicks after Illustrator.

If someone could make a movie and show how to do the things I show faster than in Freehand I'd be happy. I've been an Illustrator user for several years and just recently rediscovered how fun and quick Freehand is to work with.

[macgizmo]

That was really retarded. The guy uses obscure methods of doing things in Illustrator.

[gcoghill]

Nice demonstration. However in the point selection part, you should be using the Lasso Tool to select points. Doesn't seem as intuitive as FH method, but better than using Direct Selection tool for sure.

[peterheim]

There are soooo many more examples.... please feel free to do more videos like that. :-))))

[klavr]

I'm convinced! Thanks so much.

*opens Freehand for the second time in my life and tries to make the cookie*

[Axtmorder]

Super! Had a good laugh.

Completely true, AI is an old dragon.

[Thohomahawk]

There are still many AI advocates out there. Usually they have the right words to explain how you can do everything in AI too and thats why we do not need FreeHand anymore. But as we see, words are one thing showing it a completely different one. Very well done, 1pixero!

[elvisalien123]

so true, a clear demonstration of superiority. Illustrator: the backwards, overpriced "code brick". FreeHand: the under-appreciated, lightweight champion. Shame on Adobe. They are the real losers here, and we pay the price for their stupidity.

[alexgabYT]

lol Just the truth!