Thank you, someone who actually shows others that other phones do have the issue. Considering this is suppose to be an iphone killer, why doesnt the press suck on HTC?! This is all bull. People just want attention. And the kicker is that they all complain but most people keep the phone -_-
key thing I noticed in your video was the fact that even with your hand covering the top of your phone entirely, the wifi remained connected and you still had atleast 1 bar of signal. Not perfect by any means but better than some.. *CoughHTCIncredibleCough*
@ebradahusla The Evo has a "sweet spot" just like the iPhone 4 does. You can take one finger and put it over a spot on the top left corner of the back of the phone and watch the signal begin to drop. Some people do naturally lay a finger or two there when holding their phone.
By the way, this is my every day phone .. I'm just posting my findings.
EvoDragon08 the signal meter that shows degradation is cellular, the wifi signal is to the right of it. Nice try though. Do a YouTube search, you'll see plenty other videos just like this one. Cheers!
@EvoDragon08 WOOOOWWWWW, you must know NOTHING about technology my friend. Those bars that almost COMPLETELY disappear are representing his CELL service quality. The WiFi is on, this has NOTHING to do with anything that he is showing all of you.
I've had this Evo since Google I/O and just recently noticed a much larger problem, especially in low-signal areas. With the phone in my pocket and the screen facing outwards, the signal fades in and out sometimes dropping signal altogether, thus missing calls.
@Sajofi You are unintentionally saying the same thing as steve was: "you are holding it wrong". The fact remains that every phone has this kind of limitations.
@yasir25119918 - No im not. If you cover a phone with your both hands, no matter what type, you will get signal loss. So the signal loss "exist" in every phone, But the problem lies in how people are holding the phone. People do NOT hold phones as shown in the video above. I've never seen one do that, in other words, you will NOT experience signal loss with HTC Evo if you not intentionally want signal loss.
it's possible to do it with every phone but you have to press hard on the out side shell to do it. i try it with my alcatel mobile phone. and yes he dropped in signal strenght. But that's not the way your hold your phone.
what a retarded video, anyone knows that if you hold the very top or bottom of any cell phones you will interfere with the signal, that is why they are there!! Nobody holds their phone there. They do hold there phones normally covering left or right side of the phone though (like on an iPhone 4)
Hating a product from a company does not mean that you hate that company. That is my point. While I hate the Microsoft Kin, I like the Xbox 360 and Windows 7. While I hate the Apple TV, I like the Mac mini.
@Atheismrulez "Then why did you use the argument that I hate the iPhone as a reason for me hating Apple in your first comments?"
Dude, your hatred of the iPhone isn't the only reason that I call you a hater. EVERY time I see you comment, it is some anti-apple bullshit and I see you dwelling on painting Apple in as bad a light as possible. So, as far as I'm concerned, you're a hater.
Now, if you actually read the internet definition, you'll see that it is exactly what I mentioned. A fanboy, as defined here, is someone that defends something (typically a company) no matter what and is also an avid fan of their products.
Until you make an argument that is not based on using something that is not in the phone itself, you don't have a solid one. Again, the case only covers the problem. It's still there. It's, as I said earlier, like mentioning putting a lot of tape and then painting over it as a 'fix' for a hole in a wall. Yeah, it covers the problem, but the problem is still there. A case doesn't solve the problem itself.
@Atheismrulez "Until you make an argument that is not based on using something that is not in the phone itself"
So, if I have, say, a flat tire on a car, changing the tire isn't fixing the problem? How about if the car wasn't made with a bumper. Adding a bumper wouldn't remedy the situation? Once I add the bumper or the tire, it isn't part of the car?
How about if I add a coat of paint? Is the coat of pain not a part of the car while it is on it?
@Atheismrulez "like mentioning putting a lot of tape and then painting over it as a 'fix' for a hole in a wall."
It is not the same thing. this is more akin to replacing a hole in a wall with a square of drywall. What you want to do is tear the whole fucking wall down to fix a hole.
Here's an update. I've noticed if I'm in an area with weak signal (1-2 bars) and I put the phone in my pocket with the back of the phone to my body, it often loses signal.
You're an idiot. The point isn't that it only happens with iPhone 4s, the point is, it happens where people are likely to actually HOLD it. No one holds the Evo or any other phone by the top of it!
@ibnuts And people cusp the very bottom of their phones? If the problem is as major as you're lead to believe, where are the mass returns and mass complaints? I guess +3 million people are willing to put up with a phone that doesn't operate as a phone.
Ok, let me get this right, who in their sane mind hold their phone from the top. Clear it show you need to put your entire hand over it. For the iphone4 all it takes is one finger. EVO still kicks ass.
@darklatin69 Partially true. It all depends on the coverage you're in. If you're in an area where say you're receiving only 2 - 1 bars then you're very apt to drop the call, however if you're in an area with strong coverage the effect isn't as drastic (on either phone).
Hm...I was unable to emulate this on my EVO, and even when it seemed like I was, it jumped from 3 to 5 bars, so what I was seeing was probably just regular fluctuation. Besides, if I have to try this hard to hinder this signal and don't accidently do it in regular use, then who cares?
Yes, it's possible to hinder the signal strength on any phone, but the problem with the iPhone 4 is that 1. It's far easier to do it on, and 2. It can actually result in a dropped call, which is the REAL problem.
@JS2393 Well, that's the thing. No person (on either device) seems to have any real issues unless they legitimately try and duplicate this problem. There are a ton of videos here on YouTube demonstrating that..
@JS2393 And as you can clearly see, I initially have 4 bars here and it _immediately_ jumps down to 1 bar. I haven't tried in an area where I get less coverage to see if I can lose signal altogether, but I suspect that I would.
What this and all the other bullshit videos defending Apple and saying that other phones also have signal drop mention to say is how many Db (decibels) the signal actually drops. Consumer Reports found that the iPhone 4's db loss was much higher than with other phones.
@Atheismrulez@Atheismrulez If I had a way of providing this data, I would. But honestly, it doesn't much matter. Neither "issues" on the Evo or iPhone 4 affects my usage in any way or anyone I personally know, and apparently roughly 3 million other people.
This is all something that will soon blow over after the media outlets have beat it to death and made their money off the ad impressions.
If this issue didn't exist, why did Apple then make a whole conference about it and is giving out free Bumper cases? To fix a non-issue? Come on, you know that's bullshit. They even admitted that the iPhone 4 drops more calls than the 3GS.
@Atheismrulez Apple held this conference to save face, you can't continue to let the media run crazy with this and not attempt to defend yourself, which they did.
LOL, just LOL. I guess you forgot about the fact that this conference is gonna do anything but help them. They didn't mention a hardware fix, and are instead covering the problem (no pun intended). They didn't do this to 'save face'; otherwise, how do you explain that while they said that the iPhone 4 does drop more calls than the 3GS, they completely ignored the issue and went on to pass on the blame to other companies and claim they have similar problems?
It was an incredibly immature thing for Apple to do. It sounded like a 10-year-old being punished for doing something wrong and replying: "But Jimmy did it, too."
It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you. This world doesn't revolve around you, for fuck's sake. Just because you or your friends are not having the problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Anecdotal evidence is as good as no evidence. I personally know 1 person who has almost instantly dropped calls if he holds it there. Does that mean it's a problem for everyone? Of course not.
@Atheismrulez Then if it's a problem for him, he should return it. Problem solved. For me, personally, it's not so I will continue to enjoy it (and my Evo).
@patelkedar That is still an insignificant amount of drops. The way the bloggers would have us believe, 50% of the users were incapable of using their phones at all.
That is a very big difference.
Also, Steve Jobs did say that was not the direction that they wanted to go in. But there is a difference between large numbers and small ones.
@sc0pl355 it was statistical magic. iPhone4 probably drops about 1-50% more calls than the iPhone3gs. But the measurement they used in the conference was meant to hide that fact.
@sc0pl355 no not grasping at straws. They said that it was "less than 1 call more" in one hundred. That statement points to a rounding of the delta.
For example if O took 2 people the first who lived to 80 and the second who lived to 89. I would say 1 lived 9 years longer. But if I measured them in decades, I would say both lived to their 8th decade. But I can also say that the second lived less than 1 more decade than the first. This is statistical marketing. I do this for advertisers.
@AndrzejWLipski Whatever, there's no point in arguing the point without the actual numbers. Now, elaborate on why people haven't been returning the phone in droves?
If the number of calls dropped is so outrageous, then you'd think that a lot of people would be returning their phones.
@sc0pl355 Ask me why Toyota is still selling cars and people are still buying gas at BP stations. Sheeple are stupid but that is an easy answer. Behavioral economics will tell you that when someone buys a product for a considerable amount that they will justify the expensive purchase as positive and even delude themselves by lowing the impact of future negative experiences with the device. We are ultimately not rational but emotional beings. Steve knows this and tugs on everyone's emotions.
@AndrzejWLipski I don't know of anyone that has brand loyalty to Toyota or BP and Microsoft lost a lot of customers during the whole RROD debacle that the Xbox 360 went through.
Has it ever occurred to you that the iPhone 4 is a good product despite the overblown press reaction?
@sc0pl355 brand loyalty is just good marketing getting people to keep buying a product regardless of competition. A good campaign can get people to buy the worst product. $1.99 nfl caps being marketed and sold at 12-34 yo males for $25.99 because of home team loyalty. Same product being sold in walmart for $5.99.
It's an okay product. Definitely not worth $700.00. Maybe 50% over cost. But not $700. Artificial price inflation and emotional tugging makes you pay $700.
@AndrzejWLipski Brand loyalty is often times earned. You want to crucify Apple over an issue that can be resolved with the use of a case.
"Same product being sold in walmart for $5.99."
Excuse me? The $5.99 cap is most likely made by an off-brand manufacturer that used polyester and plastic in the cap. The $25.99 cap is made by a name-brand manufacturer, like starter, is made from cotton, has better build quality, etc.
The only thing they have in common is a patch on the outside.
@sc0pl355 wow your reality distortion field seems to have no limits. get with the times those starter, gucci, prada products are made on the same production line as walmart products. they just slap logos on them before packaging. If you have distribution connections you can pick up Rolexes (real ones) for $50. You think foxconn is the only one paying people $200 a year? Brand names are having issues with their production practicing leaking. Its a big issue in the industry. Wake up kid.
@AndrzejWLipski "get with the times those starter, gucci, prada products are made on the same production line as walmart products."
And you assume that they are made from the same materials as the knockoffs? I'm sorry, but I can tell the difference between a starter cap and a cheap polyester knock-off that you'd buy at wal-mart
@AndrzejWLipski "You think foxconn is the only one paying people $200 a year? "
Foxconn doesn't pay people $200 a year, dingus.
I have a friend from Surabaya that makes around $2000 a year and can live off of that. Do you think she should get paid $32,000 a year? Who would pay that much? Over there, that would be a huge-ass paycheck. She'd be able to afford a bigass house with servants if she made that much as a clerk.
@sc0pl355 excuse me not year, meant month. Changes nothing as to my point. Brand name producers top line product on the same lines and low end product and low ends are sold w/o label.
@sc0pl355 I did some marketing for Reebok before it was bought out. I knew a head wear designer there. NFL hats that the players wore at the play offs. production cost $1.99. Reebok sold to distributors for $4.99. Distributors sold to retailers for $11.99 and retailers sell to consumers for $19.99. When you get out of your parents house take an economics class in college.
@AndrzejWLipski "production cost $1.99. Reebok sold to distributors for $4.99. Distributors sold to retailers for $11.99 and retailers sell to consumers for $19.99."
There's nothing out of line with that.
"When you get out of your parents house take an economics class in college."
Speak for yourself, kid.
You seem to never heard of turning a profit. You seem to think that a product that costs $1.99 to manufacture should retail for $1.99, which is retarded.
@sc0pl355 now you are putting words into my mouth. You seem to think that there is a wide margin between some products being sold at 25.99 and 5.99, but fail to realized that luxury brand products don't often come with finer materials or that the materials in them produce better results. Profit is profit. I'm fine wit it otherwise I wouldn't be in business. However I consider Apple the Monster Cable of the cellphone industry.
Yes, of course. You'd rather defend them no matter what. You know how people like you are called? They're called delusional and blind morons who buy shit simply because it's made by X company. At one time, unfortunately, I did this too. Then I realized that all corporations just want our money. Like you said, Apple doesn't give a fuck about you.
1) I used the Steve Jobs quote as a joke. You know, COMEDY.
2) The fact that I worked for them gives me much more insight into how apple and its employees feel about their customers than you as someone on the outside.
@sc0pl355 "How do I cite an instance in which I never commented on something or didn't agree with something Apple did? "
If you disagreed with Apple or found fault in their products or practices then I challenge you to be honest and cite those here. List out those faults or disagreements without countering them yourself. Your valuation of these said faults should determine if you plagued with fanboyism or if you can weigh products with a sense of rationalism.
@AndrzejWLipski "If you disagreed with Apple or found fault in their products or practices then I challenge you to be honest and cite those here"
I disagreed with Apple switching to Intel, even though I understand WHY they did it. As a result of the switch, there is a noticeable hit in the stability of their operating system, which is still very good, but not as rock solid as it was on PPC.
If I didn't comment on something before, what the fuck makes you think I wanted to comment on it now?
As for disagreements. I didn't agree with Apple suing Steve Jobs in the 80's. I also didn't agree with the Clone program in the 90's. I didn't agree with the LISA. I didn't agree with the PIPIN. I didn't agree with them dumping the cube. I didn't with the Perfoma. I didn't agree with Apple's cluttered product lineup in the 90's, etc.
@AndrzejWLipski "You seem to think that there is a wide margin between some products being sold at 25.99 and 5.99"
I think that products that are sold for $5.99 cost much-much less to make than the product that is sold for 25.99.
That's why I had no problem with your example of the product manufactured for 1.99 retailing for 19.99. Everybody makes a profit. it adds up. The same product retailing for $5.99 doesn't add up. Nobody's making enough profit to justify conducting business.
@sc0pl355 that is just it. The same brand name product that is being sold for 19.99 will be sold by the manufacturer as an off brand product. The factory has a certain production level and if the brand does not fully utilize their production level, and they have free production they use it to create what you call "knock-offs". Same line but not branded. That is the rub of outsourcing. The true knock offs, the "junk"? That is produces in entirely different factories. Competitors.
@AndrzejWLipski In order for those factories to make a knock off and make a profit, they have to cut a lot of corners. Also, they can't simply use the components that their clients sent them, to make their knock offs.
For instance, the iPhone uses a lot of foreign components from companies like Samsung and so on. A company that is making a knock-off iPhone isn't going to use samsung components. They are going to use knock-off components from a off brand domestic component manufacturer.
@sc0pl355 no cutting corners. sell into market and not to distributors or back to the brand. they sell at small margins over cost. they profit just fine.
yes they use the components. there is always a % of materials sent as overage to handle failures, bad parts, etc. factories always write off exactly the overage. I've seen in in textile, printer, even pharma.
many brands have subsidiaries or separate entities who manufacture off label products. they capture luxury & value markets.
@sc0pl355 Ive argued marketing practices by Apple and called out the statistical measures they used. Most marketers would have seen it as well. I'd also tried to explain to you common manufacturing practices in the industry. but if you must here is the most publicized "iPhone 4, Samsung 'Wave' use same chip". If I open an iPhone4 and any other phones and collect part numbers for capacitors, resistors, etc you will find that most of their parts come from the same manufacturers.
@sc0pl355 please cite where i said "iPhone knock offs are the same as real iPhone" I can't seem to find that quote.
"You say that the knock-off manufacturers don't cut corners" YOU said all knock off manufactures cut corners. Not all do. Off label products off the same line are the same branded product but off label. I cited instances where knock off are not always knock offs. Just off label. True knock offs are done by separate factories doing rev engineering.
You said: if they come from the same factory you wont see a difference
You also said: The factory has a certain production level and if the brand does not fully utilize their production level, and they have free production they use it to create what you call "knock-offs"
I said for you to show me a single iPhone or iPad knock-off that was the same as the real deal.
@AndrzejWLipski "YOU said all knock off manufactures cut corners."
That's kinda the IDEA. If you're making a knock off, the idea is to get the money and go. There's no point in spending that extra cash to make your product more reliable or raise the build quality. You're not going to be held accountable and if someone wants to hold you accountable, sad day for them. No refunds.
@AndrzejWLipski "True knock offs are done by separate factories doing rev engineering."
Every iPhone and iPad knock-off that I have seen so far has been just on a cosmetic level. There was no real reverse engineering involved. they basically made a different phone, that was obviously less sophisticated and slapped an iPhone skin on it to make it LOOK like the iPhone.
@sc0pl355 Some components may be unique to a cellphone like the IPS screen but that product was asked to be incorporated into the iPhone and it is not unique in the world. Non Apple have been fabricated with IPS screens already. It's not new. Steve effectively picked a technology to add to the phone much like deciding to add a nail clipper to a swiss army knife.
The iPhone 4 doesn't use an IPS screen bro. It's FFS, which is a subset of IPS. It's also the highest dot pitch screen available on any phone in the market. You can't even buy a phone with the exact same screen.
"Steve effectively picked a technology to add to the phone much like deciding to add a nail clipper to a swiss army knife."
I guess, if that nail clipper were somehow totally different from all other nail clippers on the market.
@AndrzejWLipski 1) The iphone doesn't use IPS, it uses FFS, which is a subset of IPS.
2) The iPhone screen has the highest dot pitch of all screens available on a smartphone. You can't even do better than the iPhone 4 in terms of resolution, in a smartphone. So yes, it is a unique screen.
3) Your nail clipper analogy only works if you note that this nail clipper is different from your run of the mill variety.
@sc0pl355 its still an IPS screen. Not invented by Apple. So your point is moot.
No it is not a unique scree as there are screens available with similar dot pitch. If Steve decides to add a fork attachment to the iPhone is is not amazing and innovative. Forks already exist. He didn't make anything unique.
Not true. Analogy stands as run of the mill usually imply low quality and cheap. That was not my argument.
@AndrzejWLipski "If Steve decides to add a fork attachment to the iPhone is is not amazing and innovative. Forks already exist. He didn't make anything unique."
Ok, let's play a game of basketball.
You get all average joes on your team while I get a team history's greatest players on mine. Do you think we are evenly matched? Do you think that both of out teams are the same?
If they use the same components then explain why the knock-off electronics look TOTALLY different on the inside from the real deal when you take them apart.
"there is always a % of materials sent as overage to handle failures, bad parts, etc."
Do you know how anal Apple is about shit like that? If they ordered 5 million touchscreens then they want all 5 million of them accounted for before paying for the shipment.
@AndrzejWLipski Seriously dude, we're here on youtube. Link me a video of an iPhone or iPad 'knock-off' that is exactlyu the same as the original. Not just a lameass phone with an iPhone or iPad looking shell.
Chinese knockoffs are always just cosmetic look-alikes that have nothing in common with the original other than the LOOK of the outer shell.
@sc0pl355 I'm not arguing the specifics of iPhone or iPads manufacturing/. If you look back at my discussions I have tried to explain to you manufacturing practices in the industry that have been going on for decades. Practiced that you seem to have disbelief of. Not sure why you need to frame it around your 2 beloved devices.
@AndrzejWLipski "I'm not arguing the specifics of iPhone or iPads manufacturing"
You're the one that suggested that the knock-offs were exactly the same as the real deal and that, SOMEHOW, a 40-60% profit on cost is a bad thing or unusual.
@AndrzejWLipski You don't want to argue the specifics of the iPhone's and iPad's manufacturing because in order to make the claims that you have made, you'll have to show that the knock-offs are just as good as the originals. not only in perceived features, but also build quality and quality of materials.
If you really need a case to make a phone function like a phone, you blew it. Get Steve Jobs' cock out of your mouth. A case doesn't solve the hardware issue, and makes the phone ugly in the process. What is the point of touting having a glass and aluminum construction to have it all covered up by a case?
About cases: the difference between a normal, cheap case and a "high-end", high build quality case is only around 5 cents in manufacturing.
Man, you really suck at analogies. The iPhone already has an outer shell which, if you forgot, is made out of glass and aluminum. The power cord, on the other hand, has one made of plastic or rubber. If you actually need two shells on either of these devices for them to work properly, then yes, you did blow it.
@Atheismrulez "The iPhone already has an outer shell which, if you forgot, is made out of glass and aluminum."
Well, now it come with an extra piece of plastic that goes around the rim of the phone.
I see you missed the whole point. By giving a free case or bumper with the phone, that case or bumper is now part of the phone's package. Should the phone come with a bumper already on it?
No, it's not. It's not embedded or soldered in the hardware. Therefore, it's not part of the phone itself. An external device does not provide a hardware fix since a hardware fix is made on the phone itself. A case does not solve the underlying hardware issue; instead, it covers it (no pun intended).
And here you go again with this crap. It does have to be embedded, soldered, or connected--whatever you want to call it-- in the hardware for it to be a fix of THE PHONE ITSELF. Putting a case on it and calling it a day is not a fix for the phone itself.
So yes, it does have to be part of the phone itself. Otherwise, the problem is still there. This argument is as stupid as saying that putting tape and then painting the wall is gonna solve the issue of it having a hole.
@Atheismrulez "It does have to be embedded, soldered, or connected"
1) Place bumper on phone
2) Bumper is connected
3) Quit your bitchin
"in the hardware"
If they coat the antennas, that would fix the issue. But nothing has been embedded, soldered or connected 'in the hardware'. The antenna has been covered, just as it would be with a case.
The issue isn't the hardware itself. The circuitboards and shape of the antennas are just fine.
Guess you forgot what connected means, you moron. Also, nice quote mining. Nothing better than knowing that you have no real argument since you're just trying to twist mine. Connected means that there is something attaching it to the phone internally itself, be it a motherboard cable (as with an LCD screen), while soldered means that they're obviously attached to the phone itself by a solder.
@Atheismrulez "Guess you forgot what connected means"
No I didn't.
connect |kəˈnekt|
verb [ trans. ] (often be connected)
bring together or into contact so that a real or notional link is established : the electrodes were connected to a recording device | a modem connects computers over a telephone line. See note at join .
@Atheismrulez "Connected means that there is something attaching it to the phone internally itself, be it a motherboard cable (as with an LCD screen)"
A plastic shell is not attached to a motherboard in that manner. Usually, the motherboard is shaped in a way that it rests in the groves of the shell when you screw or snap the shell closed. It also may be screwed to the shell. The point is that they are made to fit with each other.
The shell on the phone does, in fact, connect things like the touch screen to the motherboard (through a cable) and other things like buttons. Guess you forgot that is part of what the shell is for. If there was no shell, there'd be nothing holding the touch screen, for instance.
"The bumper is made to fit with the iPhone 4."
Doesn't matter. It's not either part of the design or of the phone itself.
1) the cord connects the circuitboard and the touchscreen.
2) The shell is shaped so that the actual devices components rest within it, but the shell has nothing to do with the performance or capability of the hardware.
3) If there were no shell, the touchscreen and circuitboard would STILL be connected.
Yeah, coating the antenna would mean making (soldering) a layer of a material on the hardware to cover it. This in the phone itself; that's the difference. A case is not on the phone itself.
And yes, the issue is the hardware--the external hardware, to be precise. The external hardware allows for the user to cover the antenna.
@Atheismrulez "Yeah, coating the antenna would mean making (soldering) a layer of a material on the hardware to cover it."
solder |ˈsädər|
noun
a low-melting alloy, esp. one based on lead and tin or (for higher temperatures) on brass or silver, used for joining less fusible metals.
Yeah, you're a dumbass.
Coating the antenna gets the same result as adding a case. The description that you give would be obtainable by Apple giving out free non-conductive tape that adheres to the antennas.
It doesn't get the same result to begin with, you moron. That's the problem with your argument. The phone itself still has the issue if you remove the case. You're basically making an external fix for an internal problem. If you fix the internal problem, you avoid any issues altogether and it's also part of the design.
Coating the antenna means either soldering a piece of metal to the aluminum ring on the phone and put the antenna behind it, or putting any other material between them. And again, this is all on the phone itself; not externally. So your argument fails because of that.
And again, your shitty argument doesn't take into account the fact that by putting the case you're defeating the whole purpose of designing the phone itself. I seriously do not understand how you can be defending the idea that we need a case for our gadgets to work properly. It suggests that you don't care about designing well a product or having it work properly.
I want to bitch about it because, if I and other people don't, then corporations have the perfect excuse to make shitty products. Since stupid consumers wouldn't care, then they could make shitty products and people will keep buying them because they don't know any better.
Also: because I can. I have free speech, so fuck you.
"if I and other people don't, then corporations have the perfect excuse"
Apple doesn't give a shit about your bitching. They will never get your business, because you're a hater. So they aren't going to lose sleep over your incessant mewling.
Yes, because complaining about issues makes you a hater. That makes complete sense. Go back to sucking Steve Jobs' cock.
And if they didn't care about people complaining, they wouldn't have made a fucking conference and made other public messages.
The only things that I don't like about the iPhone 4 are this issue, the construction (glass is bad for toughness), and I think the screen could be a bit bigger (3.7 inches or so).
@Atheismrulez When you dwell on issues, dealing with products that you would never buy if they were perfect, that WILL NEVER affect you and you try your best to blow them out of proportion, you're a hater.
When you project your homosexual fantasies directed at people that challenge your hatter activities, you're a hater.
Apple cares about its CUSTOMERS. They don't give a shit about YOU.
WTF does any of this even have to do with homosexuality? *sigh*
And yes, I was going to buy the iPhone until I read about the issues. Now I'm going to buy an HTC EVO. And just for the record, I'm typing this on a Mac so you can kiss your stupid hating argument goodbye.
I don't like how Apple has handled the issue and I have the right to complain about it if I fucking want to. Just like there's things I don't like about my Mac, there's things I don't like about the iPhone.
"Quote me saying that you don't have the right to bitch about stuff."
The fact that you were questioning the fact that I was complaining leads me to thing otherwise.
Pretty funny that you apparently don't even know what "fuck you" means. Obviously, you do know, but you're making an extremely vague attempt at trying to twist my argument.
@Atheismrulez "The fact that you were questioning the fact that I was complaining leads me to thing otherwise."
So, you're saying that I don't have the right to free speech? Wonderful. Hypocrisy.
"Pretty funny that you apparently don't even know what "fuck you" means."
I wasn't even talking about when you said that, dumbass. You clearly expressed your homosexual fantasies twice while we have been debating. Clearly your perversion is so deep that you can't even see it. Get help.
"So, you're saying that I don't have the right to free speech? Wonderful. Hypocrisy."
WTF are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. You should read a fucking dictionary. Questioning has more than one meaning, you know? It's a synonym for complaining or being resented. I used questioning to not use the word complaining twice.
You're saying that I don't have the right to debate you on an issue or question what you say. You are claiming that you should be able to say whatever you want and no one else has a right to challenge you. That you are the only person that has freedom of speech.
@Atheismrulez You're a hypocrite because you are saying that you're the only one that has a right to speak on a subject and no one else has the right to question what you say.
No, no I'm not. All you're doing is twisting what I said for your own benefit. All I said is that the fact that you're complaining about me complaining (however redundant that may sound) leads me to think that you're not in favor of free speech. Now, how the fuck does that translate into me thinking no one having a right to speak on a subject? Explain this rationale.
@Atheismrulez "All I said is that the fact that you're complaining about me complaining leads me to think that you're not in favor of free speech. "
I never told you that you didn't have the right of free speech. I have as much of a right to complain about your complaining as you have to complain to begin with.
I said I thought that's what you IMPLIED. And I think you really need to understand more the concept of context. By my sentence, which said "all I said is that the fact that you're complaining about me complaining leads me to think that you're not in favor of free speech", I mean that the fact that you don't want me to complain about it implies to me that you're not in favor of speech.
No, I am suggesting that because I think your comment implied that I shouldn't complain about the issue (or any issue, for that matter). You did ask why I was complaining about the problem and then went on to say that I shouldn't.
@Atheismrulez "your comment implied that I shouldn't complain about the issue"
If you want to waste your energy hating on Apple and their products, when they don't turn a blade of grass in your world, then I will be here to call you out on your FUD.
"then went on to say that I shouldn't."
Did I really tell you that you shouldn't complain about stuff? Show me.
And here you again with the same crap all over again. Using recycled arguments that I have refuted all over again. Again, how is complaining about a real issue with a product (in this case the iPhone 4) hating on Apple? Does this mean that if I complain about the HTC EVO not having great battery life it means I hate HTC?
Pointing out flaws in products makes you a hater. Wonderful.
@Atheismrulez "Again, how is complaining about a real issue with a product (in this case the iPhone 4) hating on Apple?"
Dude, if it were just this one subject, I wouldn't label you as such, but you bitch and moan over everything concerning Apple. We have fought over this subject numerous time.
You seem desperate to pain the company in a bad light.
You're a fanboy too, you know. A fanboy of hating on other people for being fans of stuff.
So you go and say that I complain about many subjects regarding Apple, and then mention this subject as proof? How does that make sense? And even if I did, that doesn't mean anything. I criticize or point out ANY product I don't like. For example, I think the Microsoft Kin sucks. I also think the Apple TV sucks. I think Windows Phone 7 looks to be too simple, to the point of limiting functionality. Now, how does this prove that I hate both companies?
@Atheismrulez "I complain about many subjects regarding Apple"
Yup. Everytime I see you post, it is always something anti-apple, even when the subject isn't about Apple.
" I think the Microsoft Kin sucks."
It isn't necessary for you to like all competing products in order to be a hater.
"how does this prove that I hate both companies?"
99% of your comments are negative and directed at Apple. That proves you hate Apple. Saying you hate the Kin doesn't prove anything considering your focus.
Nice quote mining again. Here's the complete quote: "So you go and say that I complain about many subjects regarding Apple, and then mention this subject as proof?" See how you left out words intentionally to try to make it seem like I meant something else? That's alone proves everything. You have no real arguments; only twists.
@Atheismrulez "See how you left out words intentionally"
500 character limit dumbass. The second half of your comment made no sense, so I omitted it. I said repeatedly that I call you a hater based off of your prior actions, not just the ones you posted in the comments here.
"That's alone proves everything."
Yeah, it proves that you're grasping for straws as a means to gain some kind of upper hand.
Thank you, someone who actually shows others that other phones do have the issue. Considering this is suppose to be an iphone killer, why doesnt the press suck on HTC?! This is all bull. People just want attention. And the kicker is that they all complain but most people keep the phone -_-
Zsparrticus 1 year ago
key thing I noticed in your video was the fact that even with your hand covering the top of your phone entirely, the wifi remained connected and you still had atleast 1 bar of signal. Not perfect by any means but better than some.. *CoughHTCIncredibleCough*
bigbyw0lf 1 year ago
Your signal deserve to drop if you hold you phone like that while talking normally.
ebradahusla 1 year ago
@ebradahusla The Evo has a "sweet spot" just like the iPhone 4 does. You can take one finger and put it over a spot on the top left corner of the back of the phone and watch the signal begin to drop. Some people do naturally lay a finger or two there when holding their phone.
By the way, this is my every day phone .. I'm just posting my findings.
barkerja 1 year ago
EvoDragon08 the signal meter that shows degradation is cellular, the wifi signal is to the right of it. Nice try though. Do a YouTube search, you'll see plenty other videos just like this one. Cheers!
barkerja 1 year ago
Read his screen. It's Wi-Fi access. He turned 3G/4G off. lol
EvoDragon08 1 year ago
@EvoDragon08 WOOOOWWWWW, you must know NOTHING about technology my friend. Those bars that almost COMPLETELY disappear are representing his CELL service quality. The WiFi is on, this has NOTHING to do with anything that he is showing all of you.
The1andonlyBYack 1 year ago
@The1andonlyBYack WOOOWWWW, you must suck my dick
h33ldragon 1 year ago
you fuckin bull shit liar this is bs dnt belive this man
flykidj95 1 year ago
Never had my evo drop a call once, even with a low signal where I live, calls come through crystal clear.
Besides, I've never held my phone like that when I take a call.
Tyko9464 1 year ago
@Tyko9464 And no one buries there iPhone 4 in their hand so....
The1andonlyBYack 1 year ago
@Tyko9464 And no one buries there iPhone 4 in their hand so....
The1andonlyBYack 1 year ago
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@Tyko9464 And no one buries there iPhone 4 in their hand so....
The1andonlyBYack 1 year ago
so for when people actually grab the cell phone by the top to make a phone call, they'll have issues.
Thats great news. I can see how NO one will be affected
mymorningstory 1 year ago
people would care if they really held they're phone like that
Phyiz 1 year ago
I've had this Evo since Google I/O and just recently noticed a much larger problem, especially in low-signal areas. With the phone in my pocket and the screen facing outwards, the signal fades in and out sometimes dropping signal altogether, thus missing calls.
barkerja 1 year ago
i don't but nobody does
neotrinie1 1 year ago
ohhh please, who the hell is holding the phone like that???
Sajofi 1 year ago 8
@Sajofi You are unintentionally saying the same thing as steve was: "you are holding it wrong". The fact remains that every phone has this kind of limitations.
yasir25119918 1 year ago
@yasir25119918 - No im not. If you cover a phone with your both hands, no matter what type, you will get signal loss. So the signal loss "exist" in every phone, But the problem lies in how people are holding the phone. People do NOT hold phones as shown in the video above. I've never seen one do that, in other words, you will NOT experience signal loss with HTC Evo if you not intentionally want signal loss.
Sajofi 1 year ago
it's possible to do it with every phone but you have to press hard on the out side shell to do it. i try it with my alcatel mobile phone. and yes he dropped in signal strenght. But that's not the way your hold your phone.
neotrinie1 1 year ago
are holding it in tour left hand in this video? no then stfu
buulaa1 1 year ago
Funny, I can't make mine do that? If I completely cover up the back, it sometimes goes down a single bar, but never more.
grittar 1 year ago
what a retarded video, anyone knows that if you hold the very top or bottom of any cell phones you will interfere with the signal, that is why they are there!! Nobody holds their phone there. They do hold there phones normally covering left or right side of the phone though (like on an iPhone 4)
Vincecouk 1 year ago
Hating a product from a company does not mean that you hate that company. That is my point. While I hate the Microsoft Kin, I like the Xbox 360 and Windows 7. While I hate the Apple TV, I like the Mac mini.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Hating a product from a company does not mean that you hate that company."
I never said that.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
O RLY? Then why did you use the argument that I "hate the iPhone"--I don't-- as a reason for me hating Apple in your first comments?
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez "Then why did you use the argument that I hate the iPhone as a reason for me hating Apple in your first comments?"
Dude, your hatred of the iPhone isn't the only reason that I call you a hater. EVERY time I see you comment, it is some anti-apple bullshit and I see you dwelling on painting Apple in as bad a light as possible. So, as far as I'm concerned, you're a hater.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
Now, if you actually read the internet definition, you'll see that it is exactly what I mentioned. A fanboy, as defined here, is someone that defends something (typically a company) no matter what and is also an avid fan of their products.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
Until you make an argument that is not based on using something that is not in the phone itself, you don't have a solid one. Again, the case only covers the problem. It's still there. It's, as I said earlier, like mentioning putting a lot of tape and then painting over it as a 'fix' for a hole in a wall. Yeah, it covers the problem, but the problem is still there. A case doesn't solve the problem itself.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Until you make an argument that is not based on using something that is not in the phone itself"
So, if I have, say, a flat tire on a car, changing the tire isn't fixing the problem? How about if the car wasn't made with a bumper. Adding a bumper wouldn't remedy the situation? Once I add the bumper or the tire, it isn't part of the car?
How about if I add a coat of paint? Is the coat of pain not a part of the car while it is on it?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez "like mentioning putting a lot of tape and then painting over it as a 'fix' for a hole in a wall."
It is not the same thing. this is more akin to replacing a hole in a wall with a square of drywall. What you want to do is tear the whole fucking wall down to fix a hole.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
Here's an update. I've noticed if I'm in an area with weak signal (1-2 bars) and I put the phone in my pocket with the back of the phone to my body, it often loses signal.
barkerja 1 year ago
You're an idiot. The point isn't that it only happens with iPhone 4s, the point is, it happens where people are likely to actually HOLD it. No one holds the Evo or any other phone by the top of it!
ibnuts 1 year ago
@ibnuts And people cusp the very bottom of their phones? If the problem is as major as you're lead to believe, where are the mass returns and mass complaints? I guess +3 million people are willing to put up with a phone that doesn't operate as a phone.
barkerja 1 year ago
Darn, now I can't cover the top of the phone with my hand when I make a call.
What am I going to do?
patelkedar 1 year ago
@patelkedar Use it like normal people do.
barkerja 1 year ago
Ok, let me get this right, who in their sane mind hold their phone from the top. Clear it show you need to put your entire hand over it. For the iphone4 all it takes is one finger. EVO still kicks ass.
darklatin69 1 year ago
@darklatin69 Partially true. It all depends on the coverage you're in. If you're in an area where say you're receiving only 2 - 1 bars then you're very apt to drop the call, however if you're in an area with strong coverage the effect isn't as drastic (on either phone).
barkerja 1 year ago
Hm...I was unable to emulate this on my EVO, and even when it seemed like I was, it jumped from 3 to 5 bars, so what I was seeing was probably just regular fluctuation. Besides, if I have to try this hard to hinder this signal and don't accidently do it in regular use, then who cares?
Yes, it's possible to hinder the signal strength on any phone, but the problem with the iPhone 4 is that 1. It's far easier to do it on, and 2. It can actually result in a dropped call, which is the REAL problem.
JS2393 1 year ago
@JS2393 Well, that's the thing. No person (on either device) seems to have any real issues unless they legitimately try and duplicate this problem. There are a ton of videos here on YouTube demonstrating that..
barkerja 1 year ago
@JS2393 And as you can clearly see, I initially have 4 bars here and it _immediately_ jumps down to 1 bar. I haven't tried in an area where I get less coverage to see if I can lose signal altogether, but I suspect that I would.
barkerja 1 year ago
In after angry Android fanboys.
Geshpenst 1 year ago
What this and all the other bullshit videos defending Apple and saying that other phones also have signal drop mention to say is how many Db (decibels) the signal actually drops. Consumer Reports found that the iPhone 4's db loss was much higher than with other phones.
Obviously, you fail to mention this.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez @Atheismrulez If I had a way of providing this data, I would. But honestly, it doesn't much matter. Neither "issues" on the Evo or iPhone 4 affects my usage in any way or anyone I personally know, and apparently roughly 3 million other people.
This is all something that will soon blow over after the media outlets have beat it to death and made their money off the ad impressions.
barkerja 1 year ago
@barkerja
If this issue didn't exist, why did Apple then make a whole conference about it and is giving out free Bumper cases? To fix a non-issue? Come on, you know that's bullshit. They even admitted that the iPhone 4 drops more calls than the 3GS.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago 2
@Atheismrulez Apple held this conference to save face, you can't continue to let the media run crazy with this and not attempt to defend yourself, which they did.
barkerja 1 year ago
@barkerja
LOL, just LOL. I guess you forgot about the fact that this conference is gonna do anything but help them. They didn't mention a hardware fix, and are instead covering the problem (no pun intended). They didn't do this to 'save face'; otherwise, how do you explain that while they said that the iPhone 4 does drop more calls than the 3GS, they completely ignored the issue and went on to pass on the blame to other companies and claim they have similar problems?
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@barkerja
It was an incredibly immature thing for Apple to do. It sounded like a 10-year-old being punished for doing something wrong and replying: "But Jimmy did it, too."
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "If this issue didn't exist, why did Apple then make a whole conference about it and is giving out free Bumper cases?"
May have something to do with the open letter Steve Jobs got from Chuck Schumer. He sent the open letter, Apple set up the conference soon after.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@barkerja
It doesn't matter if it doesn't affect you. This world doesn't revolve around you, for fuck's sake. Just because you or your friends are not having the problem doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist. Anecdotal evidence is as good as no evidence. I personally know 1 person who has almost instantly dropped calls if he holds it there. Does that mean it's a problem for everyone? Of course not.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez Then if it's a problem for him, he should return it. Problem solved. For me, personally, it's not so I will continue to enjoy it (and my Evo).
barkerja 1 year ago
@barkerja
Exactly. But don't go around saying it's a non-issue when Apple admitted it drops more calls than the 3GS.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Apple admitted it drops more calls than the 3GS."
By a nigh-insignificant ratio
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 1 in a 100 people drop an extra call coming from iphone 3gs.
That still drops their reliability, because we know how many times the iphone 3gs dropped calls.
patelkedar 1 year ago
@patelkedar That is still an insignificant amount of drops. The way the bloggers would have us believe, 50% of the users were incapable of using their phones at all.
That is a very big difference.
Also, Steve Jobs did say that was not the direction that they wanted to go in. But there is a difference between large numbers and small ones.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 it was statistical magic. iPhone4 probably drops about 1-50% more calls than the iPhone3gs. But the measurement they used in the conference was meant to hide that fact.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "it was statistical magic"
Oh boy, talk about grasping at straws.
They said that they lost 1 call extra for every 100 lost on the 3g
That means, if the 3g lost 100 calls, the iPhone 4 lost 101. 200 calls = 202. Plain english, bro.
But HEY, if you have the actual statistical data, I'm all ears. Otherwise, take your haterade to someone else. I ain't buyin.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 no not grasping at straws. They said that it was "less than 1 call more" in one hundred. That statement points to a rounding of the delta.
For example if O took 2 people the first who lived to 80 and the second who lived to 89. I would say 1 lived 9 years longer. But if I measured them in decades, I would say both lived to their 8th decade. But I can also say that the second lived less than 1 more decade than the first. This is statistical marketing. I do this for advertisers.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski Whatever, there's no point in arguing the point without the actual numbers. Now, elaborate on why people haven't been returning the phone in droves?
If the number of calls dropped is so outrageous, then you'd think that a lot of people would be returning their phones.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 Ask me why Toyota is still selling cars and people are still buying gas at BP stations. Sheeple are stupid but that is an easy answer. Behavioral economics will tell you that when someone buys a product for a considerable amount that they will justify the expensive purchase as positive and even delude themselves by lowing the impact of future negative experiences with the device. We are ultimately not rational but emotional beings. Steve knows this and tugs on everyone's emotions.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski I don't know of anyone that has brand loyalty to Toyota or BP and Microsoft lost a lot of customers during the whole RROD debacle that the Xbox 360 went through.
Has it ever occurred to you that the iPhone 4 is a good product despite the overblown press reaction?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 brand loyalty is just good marketing getting people to keep buying a product regardless of competition. A good campaign can get people to buy the worst product. $1.99 nfl caps being marketed and sold at 12-34 yo males for $25.99 because of home team loyalty. Same product being sold in walmart for $5.99.
It's an okay product. Definitely not worth $700.00. Maybe 50% over cost. But not $700. Artificial price inflation and emotional tugging makes you pay $700.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski Brand loyalty is often times earned. You want to crucify Apple over an issue that can be resolved with the use of a case.
"Same product being sold in walmart for $5.99."
Excuse me? The $5.99 cap is most likely made by an off-brand manufacturer that used polyester and plastic in the cap. The $25.99 cap is made by a name-brand manufacturer, like starter, is made from cotton, has better build quality, etc.
The only thing they have in common is a patch on the outside.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 wow your reality distortion field seems to have no limits. get with the times those starter, gucci, prada products are made on the same production line as walmart products. they just slap logos on them before packaging. If you have distribution connections you can pick up Rolexes (real ones) for $50. You think foxconn is the only one paying people $200 a year? Brand names are having issues with their production practicing leaking. Its a big issue in the industry. Wake up kid.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "get with the times those starter, gucci, prada products are made on the same production line as walmart products."
And you assume that they are made from the same materials as the knockoffs? I'm sorry, but I can tell the difference between a starter cap and a cheap polyester knock-off that you'd buy at wal-mart
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 depends. if they come from the same factory you wont see a difference
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "if they come from the same factory you wont see a difference"
That's not necessarily true dude. That's like saying that all sides of beef from the same slaughterhouse are of the same quality.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "You think foxconn is the only one paying people $200 a year? "
Foxconn doesn't pay people $200 a year, dingus.
I have a friend from Surabaya that makes around $2000 a year and can live off of that. Do you think she should get paid $32,000 a year? Who would pay that much? Over there, that would be a huge-ass paycheck. She'd be able to afford a bigass house with servants if she made that much as a clerk.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 excuse me not year, meant month. Changes nothing as to my point. Brand name producers top line product on the same lines and low end product and low ends are sold w/o label.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "excuse me not year, meant month. "
Yeah, and? The American dollar goes pretty far in China, bro.
"Brand name producers top line product on the same lines and low end product and low ends are sold w/o label."
Explain the massive difference in build quality and actual materials that are used in, say, an iPad vs a cheap knock-off.
I don't see any off-brand knock offs that use an IPS screen, are as well built or even as responsive.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 I did some marketing for Reebok before it was bought out. I knew a head wear designer there. NFL hats that the players wore at the play offs. production cost $1.99. Reebok sold to distributors for $4.99. Distributors sold to retailers for $11.99 and retailers sell to consumers for $19.99. When you get out of your parents house take an economics class in college.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski "production cost $1.99. Reebok sold to distributors for $4.99. Distributors sold to retailers for $11.99 and retailers sell to consumers for $19.99."
There's nothing out of line with that.
"When you get out of your parents house take an economics class in college."
Speak for yourself, kid.
You seem to never heard of turning a profit. You seem to think that a product that costs $1.99 to manufacture should retail for $1.99, which is retarded.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 now you are putting words into my mouth. You seem to think that there is a wide margin between some products being sold at 25.99 and 5.99, but fail to realized that luxury brand products don't often come with finer materials or that the materials in them produce better results. Profit is profit. I'm fine wit it otherwise I wouldn't be in business. However I consider Apple the Monster Cable of the cellphone industry.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski "luxury brand products don't often come with finer materials or that the materials in them produce better results."
My iPad is a luxury brand and it definitely has the finer materials and components in comparison to the cheap knock-off.
Explain this shit.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "However I consider Apple the Monster Cable of the cellphone industry."
Let's see.
1) top quality building materials.
2) Unquestionably the finest and most critically acclaimed build quality in the whole of the smartphone market.
3) The highest dot-pitch display of all smart-phones on the market hands down.
4) Unparalleled third party support in comparison to other smart-phones.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
It's really funny how you say all I do is make anti-Apple comments all day long when all you've done is defend them here.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez
I'd much rather be a fan of something than be a skeevy hater that bashes on a popular and successful company that has no effect on my life.
Damn, why so told?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Yes, of course. You'd rather defend them no matter what. You know how people like you are called? They're called delusional and blind morons who buy shit simply because it's made by X company. At one time, unfortunately, I did this too. Then I realized that all corporations just want our money. Like you said, Apple doesn't give a fuck about you.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez " You'd rather defend them no matter what."
I don't defend Apple 'no matter what'. There are lots of times where I don't comment or outright disagree with Apple.
"Apple doesn't give a fuck about you."
Actually, I used to work for Apple, bro. Let me tell you, Apple employees really do care about their customers.
By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Really funny that you ripped off a statement from Steve Jobs in your last statement. You being an ex-employee for them doesn't prove anything, BTW.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez "Really funny that you ripped off a statement from Steve Jobs in your last statement."
What's really funny is that you think that I was serious with that comment.
"You being an ex-employee for them doesn't prove anything,"
It proves that I have a lot more insight into how Apple's employees view their customers than you do.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez
1) I used the Steve Jobs quote as a joke. You know, COMEDY.
2) The fact that I worked for them gives me much more insight into how apple and its employees feel about their customers than you as someone on the outside.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 "There are lots of times where I don't comment or outright disagree with Apple. " citation needed.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "citation needed."
How do I cite an instance in which I never commented on something or didn't agree with something Apple did?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 "How do I cite an instance in which I never commented on something or didn't agree with something Apple did? "
If you disagreed with Apple or found fault in their products or practices then I challenge you to be honest and cite those here. List out those faults or disagreements without countering them yourself. Your valuation of these said faults should determine if you plagued with fanboyism or if you can weigh products with a sense of rationalism.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "If you disagreed with Apple or found fault in their products or practices then I challenge you to be honest and cite those here"
I disagreed with Apple switching to Intel, even though I understand WHY they did it. As a result of the switch, there is a noticeable hit in the stability of their operating system, which is still very good, but not as rock solid as it was on PPC.
There. Happy?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 no. several instances.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "several instances."
If I didn't comment on something before, what the fuck makes you think I wanted to comment on it now?
As for disagreements. I didn't agree with Apple suing Steve Jobs in the 80's. I also didn't agree with the Clone program in the 90's. I didn't agree with the LISA. I didn't agree with the PIPIN. I didn't agree with them dumping the cube. I didn't with the Perfoma. I didn't agree with Apple's cluttered product lineup in the 90's, etc.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "You seem to think that there is a wide margin between some products being sold at 25.99 and 5.99"
I think that products that are sold for $5.99 cost much-much less to make than the product that is sold for 25.99.
That's why I had no problem with your example of the product manufactured for 1.99 retailing for 19.99. Everybody makes a profit. it adds up. The same product retailing for $5.99 doesn't add up. Nobody's making enough profit to justify conducting business.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 that is just it. The same brand name product that is being sold for 19.99 will be sold by the manufacturer as an off brand product. The factory has a certain production level and if the brand does not fully utilize their production level, and they have free production they use it to create what you call "knock-offs". Same line but not branded. That is the rub of outsourcing. The true knock offs, the "junk"? That is produces in entirely different factories. Competitors.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski In order for those factories to make a knock off and make a profit, they have to cut a lot of corners. Also, they can't simply use the components that their clients sent them, to make their knock offs.
For instance, the iPhone uses a lot of foreign components from companies like Samsung and so on. A company that is making a knock-off iPhone isn't going to use samsung components. They are going to use knock-off components from a off brand domestic component manufacturer.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 no cutting corners. sell into market and not to distributors or back to the brand. they sell at small margins over cost. they profit just fine.
yes they use the components. there is always a % of materials sent as overage to handle failures, bad parts, etc. factories always write off exactly the overage. I've seen in in textile, printer, even pharma.
many brands have subsidiaries or separate entities who manufacture off label products. they capture luxury & value markets.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "no cutting corners. sell into market and not to distributors or back to the brand."
Not cutting corners eh?
Look at this.
fake iPhone 4 demonstration
watch?v=XTAn2V6Mccw
Real iphone 4 demonstration
watch?v=yuTgEfsGOXA
Are you trying to tell me that those are the exact same quality product? lmao.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 Ive argued marketing practices by Apple and called out the statistical measures they used. Most marketers would have seen it as well. I'd also tried to explain to you common manufacturing practices in the industry. but if you must here is the most publicized "iPhone 4, Samsung 'Wave' use same chip". If I open an iPhone4 and any other phones and collect part numbers for capacitors, resistors, etc you will find that most of their parts come from the same manufacturers.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski Samsung is a korean manufacturer dude. They manufacture in the US and South Korea.
You said that iPhone knock offs were the same as a real iPhone. Where's your proof?
You say that the knock-off manufacturers don't cut corners, yet it is laughably obvious that they do when you actually see the knock-off in question.
All I asked is for you to show me a single knock off that supports your statements.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 please cite where i said "iPhone knock offs are the same as real iPhone" I can't seem to find that quote.
"You say that the knock-off manufacturers don't cut corners" YOU said all knock off manufactures cut corners. Not all do. Off label products off the same line are the same branded product but off label. I cited instances where knock off are not always knock offs. Just off label. True knock offs are done by separate factories doing rev engineering.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski
You said: if they come from the same factory you wont see a difference
You also said: The factory has a certain production level and if the brand does not fully utilize their production level, and they have free production they use it to create what you call "knock-offs"
I said for you to show me a single iPhone or iPad knock-off that was the same as the real deal.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski "YOU said all knock off manufactures cut corners."
That's kinda the IDEA. If you're making a knock off, the idea is to get the money and go. There's no point in spending that extra cash to make your product more reliable or raise the build quality. You're not going to be held accountable and if someone wants to hold you accountable, sad day for them. No refunds.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "True knock offs are done by separate factories doing rev engineering."
Every iPhone and iPad knock-off that I have seen so far has been just on a cosmetic level. There was no real reverse engineering involved. they basically made a different phone, that was obviously less sophisticated and slapped an iPhone skin on it to make it LOOK like the iPhone.
Prove me wrong.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 Some components may be unique to a cellphone like the IPS screen but that product was asked to be incorporated into the iPhone and it is not unique in the world. Non Apple have been fabricated with IPS screens already. It's not new. Steve effectively picked a technology to add to the phone much like deciding to add a nail clipper to a swiss army knife.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski
The iPhone 4 doesn't use an IPS screen bro. It's FFS, which is a subset of IPS. It's also the highest dot pitch screen available on any phone in the market. You can't even buy a phone with the exact same screen.
"Steve effectively picked a technology to add to the phone much like deciding to add a nail clipper to a swiss army knife."
I guess, if that nail clipper were somehow totally different from all other nail clippers on the market.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski 1) The iphone doesn't use IPS, it uses FFS, which is a subset of IPS.
2) The iPhone screen has the highest dot pitch of all screens available on a smartphone. You can't even do better than the iPhone 4 in terms of resolution, in a smartphone. So yes, it is a unique screen.
3) Your nail clipper analogy only works if you note that this nail clipper is different from your run of the mill variety.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 its still an IPS screen. Not invented by Apple. So your point is moot.
No it is not a unique scree as there are screens available with similar dot pitch. If Steve decides to add a fork attachment to the iPhone is is not amazing and innovative. Forks already exist. He didn't make anything unique.
Not true. Analogy stands as run of the mill usually imply low quality and cheap. That was not my argument.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski "Not invented by Apple."
Strawman. I never said Apple invented IPS or FFS. I said that the screen used in the iPhone is only available for the iPhone, which is a fact.
"there are screens available with similar dot pitch."
Name three.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski "If Steve decides to add a fork attachment to the iPhone is is not amazing and innovative. Forks already exist. He didn't make anything unique."
Ok, let's play a game of basketball.
You get all average joes on your team while I get a team history's greatest players on mine. Do you think we are evenly matched? Do you think that both of out teams are the same?
Your analogy fails.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski "yes they use the components"
If they use the same components then explain why the knock-off electronics look TOTALLY different on the inside from the real deal when you take them apart.
"there is always a % of materials sent as overage to handle failures, bad parts, etc."
Do you know how anal Apple is about shit like that? If they ordered 5 million touchscreens then they want all 5 million of them accounted for before paying for the shipment.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski Seriously dude, we're here on youtube. Link me a video of an iPhone or iPad 'knock-off' that is exactlyu the same as the original. Not just a lameass phone with an iPhone or iPad looking shell.
Chinese knockoffs are always just cosmetic look-alikes that have nothing in common with the original other than the LOOK of the outer shell.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 I'm not arguing the specifics of iPhone or iPads manufacturing/. If you look back at my discussions I have tried to explain to you manufacturing practices in the industry that have been going on for decades. Practiced that you seem to have disbelief of. Not sure why you need to frame it around your 2 beloved devices.
AndrzejWLipski 1 year ago
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@AndrzejWLipski "I'm not arguing the specifics of iPhone or iPads manufacturing"
You're the one that suggested that the knock-offs were exactly the same as the real deal and that, SOMEHOW, a 40-60% profit on cost is a bad thing or unusual.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski You don't want to argue the specifics of the iPhone's and iPad's manufacturing because in order to make the claims that you have made, you'll have to show that the knock-offs are just as good as the originals. not only in perceived features, but also build quality and quality of materials.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@AndrzejWLipski
production cost $1.99
sold to distributors for $4.99
Distributors sold to retailers for $11.99
retailers sell to consumers for $19.99
Yeah, you don't seem to understand how profit works if you think something is wrong with that.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
If you really need a case to make a phone function like a phone, you blew it. Get Steve Jobs' cock out of your mouth. A case doesn't solve the hardware issue, and makes the phone ugly in the process. What is the point of touting having a glass and aluminum construction to have it all covered up by a case?
About cases: the difference between a normal, cheap case and a "high-end", high build quality case is only around 5 cents in manufacturing.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez "If you really need a case to make a phone function like a phone,"
If they are giving you the case for free, then it is basically part of the phone package.
That's like saying "If you need to have a PLASTIC SHELL on your phone to get it to work, you blew it."
Or, like saying "If you need an insulated outer shell to a powerchord, then you blew it."
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Man, you really suck at analogies. The iPhone already has an outer shell which, if you forgot, is made out of glass and aluminum. The power cord, on the other hand, has one made of plastic or rubber. If you actually need two shells on either of these devices for them to work properly, then yes, you did blow it.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "The iPhone already has an outer shell which, if you forgot, is made out of glass and aluminum."
Well, now it come with an extra piece of plastic that goes around the rim of the phone.
I see you missed the whole point. By giving a free case or bumper with the phone, that case or bumper is now part of the phone's package. Should the phone come with a bumper already on it?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
No, it's not. It's not embedded or soldered in the hardware. Therefore, it's not part of the phone itself. An external device does not provide a hardware fix since a hardware fix is made on the phone itself. A case does not solve the underlying hardware issue; instead, it covers it (no pun intended).
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez " It's not embedded or soldered in the hardware."
It doesn't have to be. A plastic shell isn't embedded or soldered into the hardware either.
"Therefore, it's not part of the phone itself."
Doesn't have to be. it is part of the phone package. It is what comes with your phone at no extra charge and it serves a purpose.
"A case does not solve the underlying hardware issue; instead, it covers it "
Isn't that what a plastic shell does? Keeps you from touching the hardware.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
And here you go again with this crap. It does have to be embedded, soldered, or connected--whatever you want to call it-- in the hardware for it to be a fix of THE PHONE ITSELF. Putting a case on it and calling it a day is not a fix for the phone itself.
So yes, it does have to be part of the phone itself. Otherwise, the problem is still there. This argument is as stupid as saying that putting tape and then painting the wall is gonna solve the issue of it having a hole.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "It does have to be embedded, soldered, or connected"
1) Place bumper on phone
2) Bumper is connected
3) Quit your bitchin
"in the hardware"
If they coat the antennas, that would fix the issue. But nothing has been embedded, soldered or connected 'in the hardware'. The antenna has been covered, just as it would be with a case.
The issue isn't the hardware itself. The circuitboards and shape of the antennas are just fine.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Guess you forgot what connected means, you moron. Also, nice quote mining. Nothing better than knowing that you have no real argument since you're just trying to twist mine. Connected means that there is something attaching it to the phone internally itself, be it a motherboard cable (as with an LCD screen), while soldered means that they're obviously attached to the phone itself by a solder.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Guess you forgot what connected means"
No I didn't.
connect |kəˈnekt|
verb [ trans. ] (often be connected)
bring together or into contact so that a real or notional link is established : the electrodes were connected to a recording device | a modem connects computers over a telephone line. See note at join .
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Connected means that there is something attaching it to the phone internally itself, be it a motherboard cable (as with an LCD screen)"
A plastic shell is not attached to a motherboard in that manner. Usually, the motherboard is shaped in a way that it rests in the groves of the shell when you screw or snap the shell closed. It also may be screwed to the shell. The point is that they are made to fit with each other.
The bumper is made to fit with the iPhone 4.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
The shell on the phone does, in fact, connect things like the touch screen to the motherboard (through a cable) and other things like buttons. Guess you forgot that is part of what the shell is for. If there was no shell, there'd be nothing holding the touch screen, for instance.
"The bumper is made to fit with the iPhone 4."
Doesn't matter. It's not either part of the design or of the phone itself.
Stop repeating the same stupid shit.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez "The shell on the phone does, in fact, connect things like the touch screen to the motherboard (through a cable"
No, the cable connects the motherboard to the touch screen.
"If there was no shell, there'd be nothing holding the touch screen,"
The touch screen would be connected to the circuitboard by the cord.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez
1) the cord connects the circuitboard and the touchscreen.
2) The shell is shaped so that the actual devices components rest within it, but the shell has nothing to do with the performance or capability of the hardware.
3) If there were no shell, the touchscreen and circuitboard would STILL be connected.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Yeah, coating the antenna would mean making (soldering) a layer of a material on the hardware to cover it. This in the phone itself; that's the difference. A case is not on the phone itself.
And yes, the issue is the hardware--the external hardware, to be precise. The external hardware allows for the user to cover the antenna.
Next...
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Yeah, coating the antenna would mean making (soldering) a layer of a material on the hardware to cover it."
solder |ˈsädər|
noun
a low-melting alloy, esp. one based on lead and tin or (for higher temperatures) on brass or silver, used for joining less fusible metals.
Yeah, you're a dumbass.
Coating the antenna gets the same result as adding a case. The description that you give would be obtainable by Apple giving out free non-conductive tape that adheres to the antennas.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
It doesn't get the same result to begin with, you moron. That's the problem with your argument. The phone itself still has the issue if you remove the case. You're basically making an external fix for an internal problem. If you fix the internal problem, you avoid any issues altogether and it's also part of the design.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "The phone itself still has the issue if you remove the case."
The phone would have an issue if you removed the coating or the shell. What's your point?
"If you fix the internal problem"
There is no internal problem. The circuitbaord works just fine.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Coating the antenna means either soldering a piece of metal to the aluminum ring on the phone and put the antenna behind it, or putting any other material between them. And again, this is all on the phone itself; not externally. So your argument fails because of that.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
And again, your shitty argument doesn't take into account the fact that by putting the case you're defeating the whole purpose of designing the phone itself. I seriously do not understand how you can be defending the idea that we need a case for our gadgets to work properly. It suggests that you don't care about designing well a product or having it work properly.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "the fact that by putting the case you're defeating the whole purpose of designing the phone itself."
The bumpers were designed for the phone. So were the other cases.
"I seriously do not understand how you can be defending the idea"
I don't understand why you want to bitch about a product that you would never buy even if there were NO issue at all. Can you explain that to me?
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
I want to bitch about it because, if I and other people don't, then corporations have the perfect excuse to make shitty products. Since stupid consumers wouldn't care, then they could make shitty products and people will keep buying them because they don't know any better.
Also: because I can. I have free speech, so fuck you.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "I want to bitch about it because"
You're a hater
"if I and other people don't, then corporations have the perfect excuse"
Apple doesn't give a shit about your bitching. They will never get your business, because you're a hater. So they aren't going to lose sleep over your incessant mewling.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
Yes, because complaining about issues makes you a hater. That makes complete sense. Go back to sucking Steve Jobs' cock.
And if they didn't care about people complaining, they wouldn't have made a fucking conference and made other public messages.
The only things that I don't like about the iPhone 4 are this issue, the construction (glass is bad for toughness), and I think the screen could be a bit bigger (3.7 inches or so).
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez When you dwell on issues, dealing with products that you would never buy if they were perfect, that WILL NEVER affect you and you try your best to blow them out of proportion, you're a hater.
When you project your homosexual fantasies directed at people that challenge your hatter activities, you're a hater.
Apple cares about its CUSTOMERS. They don't give a shit about YOU.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
WTF does any of this even have to do with homosexuality? *sigh*
And yes, I was going to buy the iPhone until I read about the issues. Now I'm going to buy an HTC EVO. And just for the record, I'm typing this on a Mac so you can kiss your stupid hating argument goodbye.
I don't like how Apple has handled the issue and I have the right to complain about it if I fucking want to. Just like there's things I don't like about my Mac, there's things I don't like about the iPhone.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "does any of this even have to do with homosexuality"
You're the one with the fixation on two men being involved in homosexual activity, so ask yourself.
"I was going to buy the iPhone until I read about the issues. "
Lie to yourself if you must, but don't lie to me.
"I'm typing this on a Mac"
So does moldytoaster. That doesn't make him any less a hater.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez " I have the right to complain about it"
Quote me saying that you don't have the right to bitch about stuff.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
"Quote me saying that you don't have the right to bitch about stuff."
The fact that you were questioning the fact that I was complaining leads me to thing otherwise.
Pretty funny that you apparently don't even know what "fuck you" means. Obviously, you do know, but you're making an extremely vague attempt at trying to twist my argument.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez
And what the fuck is a moldytoaster?
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez "And what the fuck is a moldytoaster?"
He's an Apple Hater that was caught multiple times manufacturing error messages on a Mac Pro as a means to troll Mac Users.
His biggest defense was "I own a Mac, so I'm immune to being called a hater or a troll. Even though I'm acting like a hater and a troll"
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "The fact that you were questioning the fact that I was complaining leads me to thing otherwise."
So, you're saying that I don't have the right to free speech? Wonderful. Hypocrisy.
"Pretty funny that you apparently don't even know what "fuck you" means."
I wasn't even talking about when you said that, dumbass. You clearly expressed your homosexual fantasies twice while we have been debating. Clearly your perversion is so deep that you can't even see it. Get help.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
"So, you're saying that I don't have the right to free speech? Wonderful. Hypocrisy."
WTF are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. You should read a fucking dictionary. Questioning has more than one meaning, you know? It's a synonym for complaining or being resented. I used questioning to not use the word complaining twice.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
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@Atheismrulez
You're saying that I don't have the right to debate you on an issue or question what you say. You are claiming that you should be able to say whatever you want and no one else has a right to challenge you. That you are the only person that has freedom of speech.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez You're a hypocrite because you are saying that you're the only one that has a right to speak on a subject and no one else has the right to question what you say.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
No, no I'm not. All you're doing is twisting what I said for your own benefit. All I said is that the fact that you're complaining about me complaining (however redundant that may sound) leads me to think that you're not in favor of free speech. Now, how the fuck does that translate into me thinking no one having a right to speak on a subject? Explain this rationale.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "All I said is that the fact that you're complaining about me complaining leads me to think that you're not in favor of free speech. "
I never told you that you didn't have the right of free speech. I have as much of a right to complain about your complaining as you have to complain to begin with.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
I said I thought that's what you IMPLIED. And I think you really need to understand more the concept of context. By my sentence, which said "all I said is that the fact that you're complaining about me complaining leads me to think that you're not in favor of free speech", I mean that the fact that you don't want me to complain about it implies to me that you're not in favor of speech.
Words have more than one meaning and one context.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "I said I thought that's what you IMPLIED."
Elaborate. How did I imply that I was telling you that you didn't have free speech? Your logic is defective.
You are suggesting that, because I am arguing with you, that I don't believe that you have free speech.
Believe it or not, but I can argue with someone and still respect the principals of the first amendment.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
No, I am suggesting that because I think your comment implied that I shouldn't complain about the issue (or any issue, for that matter). You did ask why I was complaining about the problem and then went on to say that I shouldn't.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "your comment implied that I shouldn't complain about the issue"
If you want to waste your energy hating on Apple and their products, when they don't turn a blade of grass in your world, then I will be here to call you out on your FUD.
"then went on to say that I shouldn't."
Did I really tell you that you shouldn't complain about stuff? Show me.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
And here you again with the same crap all over again. Using recycled arguments that I have refuted all over again. Again, how is complaining about a real issue with a product (in this case the iPhone 4) hating on Apple? Does this mean that if I complain about the HTC EVO not having great battery life it means I hate HTC?
Pointing out flaws in products makes you a hater. Wonderful.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "Again, how is complaining about a real issue with a product (in this case the iPhone 4) hating on Apple?"
Dude, if it were just this one subject, I wouldn't label you as such, but you bitch and moan over everything concerning Apple. We have fought over this subject numerous time.
You seem desperate to pain the company in a bad light.
You're a fanboy too, you know. A fanboy of hating on other people for being fans of stuff.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355
So you go and say that I complain about many subjects regarding Apple, and then mention this subject as proof? How does that make sense? And even if I did, that doesn't mean anything. I criticize or point out ANY product I don't like. For example, I think the Microsoft Kin sucks. I also think the Apple TV sucks. I think Windows Phone 7 looks to be too simple, to the point of limiting functionality. Now, how does this prove that I hate both companies?
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "I complain about many subjects regarding Apple"
Yup. Everytime I see you post, it is always something anti-apple, even when the subject isn't about Apple.
" I think the Microsoft Kin sucks."
It isn't necessary for you to like all competing products in order to be a hater.
"how does this prove that I hate both companies?"
99% of your comments are negative and directed at Apple. That proves you hate Apple. Saying you hate the Kin doesn't prove anything considering your focus.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
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@sc0pl355
Nice quote mining again. Here's the complete quote: "So you go and say that I complain about many subjects regarding Apple, and then mention this subject as proof?" See how you left out words intentionally to try to make it seem like I meant something else? That's alone proves everything. You have no real arguments; only twists.
Atheismrulez 1 year ago
@Atheismrulez "See how you left out words intentionally"
500 character limit dumbass. The second half of your comment made no sense, so I omitted it. I said repeatedly that I call you a hater based off of your prior actions, not just the ones you posted in the comments here.
"That's alone proves everything."
Yeah, it proves that you're grasping for straws as a means to gain some kind of upper hand.
sc0pl355 1 year ago