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@dsdan83 My name isn't funny. It's just kind of stupid. And it's a very old username. If I could change it I would, but I am not deleting my accout over it.
@keeshond5 did you see the shit dsdan was talking on this video haha, if you know your football please twell him in a 4-2-3-1 when rafa at liverpool played two holding players please tell dan that gerrard was not playing cm like he says but he was playing behind torres
It is funny for it made me giggle, be it only for a brief moment. I would also agree it is a rather stupid name. Certainly an F when it comes to creative originality.
As an Everton fan it is interesting to note that one of our great forwards, Edgar Chadwick, was manager of the Dutch side for years and brought them to competitive positions at the 1908 and 1912 olympics putting the Dutch on the map for the first time. He was among the 15 or so British managers who managed the Dutch. I underestimated the debt owed by the Dutch to the home of football. Most continental sides were nowhere near as dependent on Britain for so long.
Gerrard or Adam the superior box to box player? Gerrard.
Ronaldo or Kluivert the best player? In all honesty is this being argued? Ronaldo of course. Kluivert ranks with the likes of Neeskens and Jansen from '74. No better. Good, very good, almost great but not quite all time great material.
seriously gram, you ain't tough just ridiculous. that fairly decent english side beat us that day in 96 because we didn't have a full-strength side and there was commotion within the team camp. stop drooling over robson. he's a player pretty much everyone outside of england doesn't give a toss about. prolly cos he never brought it for england, only united. and the epl wasn't popular worldwide yet in the 80s. hoddle, same shit different asshole.
@dsdan83 you know shit and really you are going to defend that defeat loser, robson was a great player and who cares if the league was not as big in the 80s, and football is a team game and robson was great for england if you mean he was shit for england as they never won anything remind me what has holland won since 1988 tell me that danny the fanny, and name me all these kick and rush brittish players from the past with no skill bet you can't name over 10
gram dun be a lil boy now. i proven i know a lot more bout football, specially continental football as u english call it, than u. don't even go near van basten and gullit. no sad excuses of a british player comes anywhere near these two wizards. mvb undoubtedly was/is the best striker of all time. capello was crying when van basten said goodbye in the san siro due to a premature retirement. while the same capello is considering leaving that freak rooney out of his euro 2012 squad.
@dsdan83 i'm scottish you freak and get a life loser britian has produced players with great skill and power like they to you freak, let me see no one from brittian comes near van basten yet john charles a player with great skill and power was voted ahead of van basten as the best player to play in italy.
@dsdan83 you know shit about football you proved that by thinking brittian has never had any players with skill you fail so come on fag its funny how you don't reply the points in my last post wharts wrong you can't and you can't name me 5 kick and rush brittisah players from the past john charles had more power and skill than ronaldo who you droll over.
@dsdan83 so rooneys a freak yet hes better than any player in the holland team just now, see you hate brittish oplayers you prove that by calling rooney a freak and rooney is allways the first team on the england team sgheet but he has a 3 game ban at euro 2012 so thats why he may be left behind.
britain produced nothing of skill n flair except besides george best, but you already know where i stand on him. besides, he were n irish not english like u so don't get to overly proud over him. i'm aware that rooney, the ill-disciplined wank, got a three game ban. but that capz is willing to leave him on the side of the road just mean he don't need rooney all that bad. fabio reckons he can get far into the tournament without your over-rated love obsession.
@dsdan83 yea he was irish and for the last time i'm not english i'm scotttish england and scotland are two diffrent countrys, and well brtian had other great skillful players that had great vision,passing,dribbling ect that your country is knowen for, best had it yea but others did to brittish is fam ous for great dribblers on the wings matthews,finney,jimmy johnston look him up he could dribble,even giggs who is still playing was a great dribbler.
@dsdan83 why the hell do you keep thinking i'm english i don't give a shit how the england manager feels about rooney or how england do they will fail as always i am scottish not english and why should i not be proud about geore best i am proud of any great player.
also i admire van persie the most out of all the dutch players today, he was class today but how do you know best is the only player from these parts thats had skill,flair,dribbling,vision
@dsdan83 tell me why best the only brittish player to ever have skill,grace,flair,vison paul scholes you must have admired him he was far from the kick and rush style you hate he had great passing,vision great touch was a quik thinker like xavi, everyone adsmired scholes even dutch greats like davis seedrof,van basten.
also what do you think of great brittish clubs like man utd,liverpool
your compatriot scholes, even in his hey day, was a fine player but no more. brits in the past 20-30 yrs or so only endured small phases of excellence. but they never prolonged it for years on end like you see with dutch, german, brazilian et al players. the ginger ninja can't even polish xavi's or seedorf's boots so you really have to stop making me laugh so much u ridiculous english fellow. jimmy johnston? is that a cartoon character lool.
@dsdan83 compatriot hes not my compatriot hes english i'm scottish two diffrent countrys, and well yea i agree all the true great brittish players came years ago
what part of i'm not english don't you get are you really a retard, scholes i'm not here to argue whos he better than i just pointed out he had some of the skills xavi ect are famous for now, in the 90s early 200s scholes was a more complete player than xavi he did what xavi did while being a threat in the attacking box
scholes was fairly good at passing and a very good shooter from just outside the box. but nothing much more than that. he never had the vision and awareness of iniesta, the twinkle-toe footwork and technique of seedorf, or the speed of kaka. so stop comparing this one-dimensional compatriot of yours to players far more worthy of the tag "play maker". that scholes was always misused in the england team also says something.
@dsdan83 scholes was never misused in the england team intill lampard came in gerrard was englands box to box player could attack and defend, so he was a must in midfield to win the ball and lampard could only play center midfield so sven fitted all 3 in the only weay he could in a 442 putting scholes out wide left.
i'm not here to get in to debate about who scholes was better than, but he had great vision and a great touch that was for sure he could get the ball and play the pass xavi could
scholes was shifted out wide because the coach never had much faith in him as the central point of england's attacks. that he was sacrificed for two other mediocre so-called "creative midfielders", namely lampard n gerrard, also says something. you really are the most ridiculous englishman of all-time if you keep comparing scholes to xavi. in example is, in 10 yrs time nobody will be talking about scholes anymore while everyone will still remember xavi.
@dsdan83 are you fucking stupid i am scottish look up a map scotland and england are two diffrent countrys when i say brittian and brittish players i mean wales,scotland,n ireland players from they countrys. again who ever said lampard and gerrard were creative players no one ever did, gerrard has long been seen as box to box while lampard has always been goal scoring midfielder learn football and buy a map of brittian please.
mr holland boy but wtf i will call you belguim boy
@dsdan83 again you put scholes down so you are calling people in football liars like alex ferfguson and pepe xavis manager and others that say scholes was the english version of xavi.
anyway why the fuck we debating scholes you pointed out in the last 30 years brittish football has had every few players with the skill set that holland ect are famous for i agreed but said scholes was one interms of passing,touch vision now you put him down, if he was dutch your small dick would be hard over him
man utd didn't want sneijder that bad. and i'm glad he didn't go cos he would've suffocated under man u's boring style of play. u englishmen would prolly said it's highly entertaining. that's cos u never watch anything outside of ur tiny island. gerrard isn't a box 2 box player. if he were, he wouldn't play with 2 def mids in his back at liverpool. keep dreaming that scholes was ever good enough to come near xavi's class. i'm sure u dream every night england can win the wc again.
@dsdan83 again why the fuck would i care if england won the world cup, are you getting this i'm from scotland scotland has nothing to do with england i've only ever set foot in england once, and haha man utd boring you are pathetic they attack teams only barcalona and real madrid could be seen as having a stronger team, gerrard is a box to box player he player when played in center midfield he never had two def mids it was only when gerrard played up front or right wing that rafa had def mids
@dsdan83 why was scholes not in xavi's class haha, and i guess you hate premier league football in england but wait hah th dutch league is so much better, is that why all the best players there move to other countrys like england when was the last time a dutch team won the champions league, on scholes is funny you put him down taking skills of other players that did better than him like kaka being faster, so was Patrick Kluivert shit then because he never had the dribbling and pace of ronaldo
@dsdan83 so was van der sar shit then since he played for man utd and you do know man utd is a team made up of alot of forien players but waiot there shit forgien players to you haha
man utd play languid football. a proper observant is able to recognise that. u may've noticed how their only tactical approach to last season's cl final against barca was to bury themselves in. and barca was still brilliant enough to play them off the park. ur blind also apparently. daglish, too, plays with 2 holding mids behind one centre mid - usually gerrard. kluivert was technically far more superior to r9. kluivert scored many goals too. vds is the best keeper of his generation.
@dsdan83 You would live homeless if the dutch club you support could be as dominant as man utd have been in the last 20 odd years, man utd play great attacking football so what man utd getting beat vs barcelona the best team in the world makes man utd shit, they tried to attack barcelona but they are not as good as barca, also the fact scholes did not have certain skills as good as some players shouldf have no baring on how hes rated.
@dsdan83 also kluivert bertter than (R9) ronaldo thats messed up you say that because hes dutch whats next was ruud van better than Ronaldo to and say Henry, also you know shit how many times did you watch liverpool under rafa he only ever played to holding players when Gerrard was not in midfield he played behide Torres or on the right wing when rafa used to holding players, again Dalglish does not use holding players only one Lucas not two so whos the other holding player
@dsdan83 Gerrard has only played like 5 times undfer Dalglish he was out for months last season, then got injuried again this season his first start was against Man utd this season at the start of the season Kenny played a 433 with 3 midfielders Adam is not a holding player if you think that hes like a deep lying play maker the role they had for Alonso Lucas is the holding player and they had Henderson as the other midfielder who attacked to,in 442 they play Adam and Lucas thats 1 holding player
you silly little boy gram. i'd never be homeless cos i'm educated and smart. i never said man u is shit but we clearly have a different understanding of what is attacking, attractive football. only ur interpretation is flawed. give it rest bout scholes already. nobody outside ur country england still talks about him. kluivert had more technique than ronaldo. but r9 was obviously more explosive and bit more clinical. adam is the box2box guy at pool not gerrard.
@dsdan83 Adam can't dfefend hes not box to box hes a deep lying playmaker that plays passes from deep then gets foward, ok so you think kluivert was bertter tell me why he was better as where is his world player of the year awards, and i gave you facts on liverpool ok fool Gerrard is a box to box midfielder that is a midfielder that shows great energy and can't chasde back tackle and then drive foward viera was another in his prime
@dsdan83 tell me how many times have you watched a man utd league game in the last year, they play great attacking football quick passing as well and they've won the league 3 times out of 4 season does that meannothing, and my country haha scholes is not from my country and no one talks about scholes really so xavi,pep,zidane,ronaldo and more there all enbglish then haha get the facts scholes was great and gerard is a box to box midfielder ok
i like him too. better than any of ur compatriots from the three lions team. since neither of us are scottish, let's laugh at how pathetic they are. can't remember they last did anything significant.
@dsdan83 I'm scottish or did yuou not read my channel laugh at scotland all you like i know where shit, and have not been to a world cup since 1998, i watched r9 and kluivert alot tell me why kluivert was the more skillful, ronaldo had great close control to and outplayed any player,yea ronaldo did it at more speed which is harder watch his clips at barcelona he dribbled by players with great speed and control to say kluivert is better is a joke he did nothing aparet from head better than ron
kluivert's ball-control was sublime. just think of van persie but even a rung higher up. ronaldo mainly glided past players through his sheer speed. he wasn't a gifted dribbler a la van basten or zico. you talk about charlie nobody but you seem unbelievably unaware of how truly great former players were. you're exaggerating about kuyt my boy. the scottish league is extremely uncompetitive. so i wouldn't be too proud about those 54 league titles if i were you. it just don't mean much.
@dsdan83 the scottish league for years used to have a time where 4 0r 5 teams could win it even look at aberdeen and dundee utd both won cups in europe.
so ronaldo used his pace alot hes still better than the dutch man, and i'm unbelievably unware of how good some players were no thats you john chrles was a great talent he had everything needed in a striker and defender he could run the whole lenth of the pitch with the ball
stop looking into the distant past kid. spl been a two-horse race since living memory. and mine stretches back to about 86. i seen charlie apples. as i said several times previously already, he played during a time my granny would've been better at defending than the average player in the era. you don't need to hear more bout your compatriot scholes cos their ain't nothin more to say about him. he was pretty decent in his hey day but a fair mid when put in a wider perspective.
@dsdan83 you never saw john charles weird you praise kluivert yet put down charles who was a far better player, also 86 yea thats a long time in football but rtangers have been playuing for over a 100 years up intill the early 90s a few teams could win the league aberdeen did 3 times undr alex ferguson in the 80s, also the dutch league for years has been a 2 team league, with ajax and psv in the last few years itys been more open but, so was cryuff shit then he played in the day of shit defend
@dsdan83 so was cryuff shit to because he played against the same type of players charles did, also i'm still waiting for you to get back to me on gerrard you know shit you think hwe was not a biox to box player and he is, and rafa never used two holding players when gerrard played in the center
cruyff was active later than charlie. every1 could see cruyff was the closest thing to being the complete player there's ever been. the vision and leadership qualities which cruyff had/has u didn't see w/ charlie apples, so give it up. when rafa was coach he played xabi & masch/lucas behind stevo. god u dun pay attention much do ya. kluivert in terms of ball technique is one of the finest strikers of all-time. he let himself down cos lack of motication & injuries cut his time short.
@dsdan83 again what do you know about john charles ablities as a player cruyff played against the same qulity that cxharles did, you ar so biased towards holland its not real where were all these great holland players in the 60s, john charles is the best forien player to ever play for juventus even cruyff liked him, also your wrong when gerrard played center midfield only 1 holding player played behind him it that is fact or he played xabi who is a deep lying play maker next to him.
i'm not interested in what some one else has to say in the sphere of this discussion. it's as if i need to use some random nobody's opinion to make urs seem more worthy. perhaps u lack the mental capacities to put any substantial weight in anything u wish to argue. i don't think cruyff would say charlie is the best after zidane's period with juve. knowing how deep cruyff's understanding of the game is. under rafa, pool played 4-2-3-1 with in mid stevo and two anchors on his back.
@dsdan83 who cares what cryuff would say the fansd that saw charles rated him the best juventus player ever accept it, you know shit about the game you have proved that and i never used anyone in this debate if others reply you its because they see how retarded you are about football, yea i think rafa did play that sometimes but then gerrard fwas playing behind the striker not as a box to box midfield you fool, the point i made was he never played two holding with gerrard in center midfield ok
@thetoon99 No point arguing with him mate. Dutch is good. British is bad. Law and Best were useless as was Ballon d'or winner Owen. Do you actually remember Kluivert ( how many ballons d'or? None ) at Newcastle. I don't. He made no impression at all in the biggest league of all. A few goals when part of the Barca system but failed in Milan as well as England. Obviously on a par with Puskas and Muller then tee hee hee.
@thetoon99 The best one was dismissing Muller. Rafa is a better manager than Fergie....Rafa is unemployed. Law played against poor defenders. Well then so did Cruyff and Van Basten neither of whom would cut the mustard in the bigger Leagues nowadays. The Dutch used to have a league but now its a feeder league like in Ireland. Barca used to take them but the game has moved on and barca don't use them anymore...probably because the modern Dutch player is technically deficient at top level.
@tigerarmyrule being fair ro him he agreed that ferguson was better than rafa, to say cruff and van basten could not play today is madeness mate, most players today can't lace there boots only messi today comes close to cruyffs level and that was cruyff in the day of harder ball and worse pitches
@thetoon99 Of course Cruyff was superb. I'm just showing how silly it is to dismiss the past as if players then had one leg. If we want to dismiss one forward because allegedly defence was poor them let's dismiss them all.
in the 50s and mostly throughout the 60s, defending in general was truly abysmal. you like to boast about ireland's minimal contribution to football. but ajax's biggest successes, in the 70s and 90s, would never have been possible with any form of irish influence. it's a pity euro 2012 has to put with such quality-less and laughable sides such as the men who wear slime coloured shirts.
@dsdan83 I don't boast at all. Ireland has made little contribution to football which is a British game. The British taught the Irish to play as they did with the Dutch. The fact that your club was managed by Brits for decades simply proves my point. You'll bluster and insult since that is your way of avoiding the point but I'll still be correct. Brits built Ajax my old mucker and no amount of sneering abuse from you changes that.
football isn't such a complicated sport. i'm pretty certain the dutch, or any race that it is at least adequately intelligent, would've mastered the discipline of football without guidance from the british. your point is void so it's impossible for you to have proven a point. as i already stipulated, the seeds of any major success ajax have achieved is of absolutely no reward to anyone with british ties. cruyff's and michel's brilliant philosophy on football is all i need to say.
@dsdan83 You may be pretty certain the Dutch could have taught themselves but the fact is they didn't. The British did. I am telling you facts of football history. You may not like these facts but facts they are. I understand that your hate of Britain means you want to wish away the decades of British management at your club but that is the reality. British managers built Ajax. Telling me the point is void does not change history.
i'm not uncomfortable with hearing facts my boy. just as i pointed out the fact that ajax successes isn't thankful to anything british. creating a club is one thing, achieving success is much more difficult. as an irishman i do not expect you to understand such a concept. what is probably so sad and ironic about your whole tiresome story is that nowadays the premier league would be a quality-less competition without foreign players and coaches.
@dsdan83 So you accept that Britons built Ajax. At least there is some recognition of reality. OK you are Dutch. Few if any continental countries were so dependent for so long on British managers for their major club and national teams and obviously this fact irritates you and you want to forget it. Irrational and illogical but understandable from an emotional perspective so I understand your defensiveness and will overlook your offensive personal remarks
@thetoon99 Oh he can see it very well mate.....that is why the denial of history, the insults, the sneering etc are his response. You can bet your shirt he had no idea that the Dutch were so in debt to British football until I told him. He has never heard of names like Chadwick and Reynolds....the creators of Dutch football and being anti British he doesn't want to know. Any response to this will be a mix of denial of history and anti irish sneering.
i never denied brits built ajax and u will find it impossible to find a concrete illustration of such denial. It seems u have such an urge to deliver a trivial fact home as to make it seem these facts had any influence on the peaks of Ajax's history. we have never been dependent on brits nor is there unquestionable evidence to suggest that. to make it understandable for u, has dutch football ever been in near collapse cos of a lack of british football influence? the answr is no.
@dsdan83 Dan you latest response of free of anti Irish sneering and actually engages with the issue at hand so well done. On the isue "dependence" tends to mean overuse due to need. Perhaps the "need" wasn't there but there was definitely an overuse of British managers. You say they had no influence. It is arguable isn't it that for instance the man who set up the Youth System at Ajax has an influence. He was British.
Well, Ireland is generally so small and insignificant, there's not much to sneer about I suppose. Though it's admirable u guys are almost world champions at fucking up an economy. Perhaps it is because ur race of pig farming potatoe growers knows only 2 things and 2 things correctly. Anyway, enough compliments, dependence doesn't stricly mean overuse. Nor did we "overuse" Brit football know-how. I think we, at least, realised early on enough how flawed it's philosophy was and is.
@thetoon99 Mate what do you think has caused the decline in technical standard among the Dutch? Their greatest club is of course an Anglo/Irish creation. Ajax's first manager was Irish. jack Kirwan. Incidentally an Evertonian. The godfather of Total Football was English. Vic Bermingham. A Spurs man and as you know Total Football is Spurs push and run under a different name. The Dutch learned fom us but now seem to be regressing. EG Barca have improved since clearing out the Orange deadwood.
@thetoon99 Ajax were managed by Irish or British managers for decades up to the mid 60s. It was in effect a British creation. 40 years of British management in an inferior league produced Total Football - push and run by another name. Since then the Dutch have taken over from us and managed to turn that model of British football inventiveness into an inconsequential feeder club living in the past.. Is it any wonder Real and Barca cleared them out? Do United bother scouting Ajax nowadays?
@dsdan83 now you put down scottish strikers you not heard of dennis law part of the trio at man utd the other two being best and charlton or were they all shit to, kluivert is no where near the class of a law and what a rudd van then he was a fox in the box but weight by your own logic he should be crap but naw hes dutch so hes the best striker of his era right, gerrard in center midfield only had one holding player beside him or xabi as a playmaker accept it google it box to box gerrard
@dsdan83 read tigerarmyrule post in this video hes spot on not like youy that thinks every dutch player is god its a joke to even dare rate kluivert ahead of ronaldo, its also a joke to make out the best player to ever play for juventus was shit
@dsdan83 mate you talk about " the finest strikers of all time" and include Kluivert. Now let's choose some uncontested mambers of the group....Pele, Puskas, Gerd Muller. Do you really rate kluivert with them? Mate no one rates Kluivert with them. He was a very fine player but Van Basten belongs in the group of "finest strikers" Kluivert does not. Are you honestly saying that Kluivert belongs in a strikers group with Van basten and Muller?
how difficult is it to grasp two simple words: ball & technique. or perhaps you merely know how to spell gerd muller and that is it. i'm sure it is. muller had 0.0 technique. he was a pure fox in the box. a standard volkswagen sedan. nothing fancy, does the job and nothing else. almost as terrible as michael owen or any given irish or scottish striker.
@dsdan83 i bet you are even so retard to think that rafa was/is a better manager than alex ferguson has ever been right just because hes not brittish and name me the 10 best players in the world in your biased opinion haha
no, i do believe saf is a better manager. eventhough he didn't win a single prize with man u in his first 4 seasons in charge, while rafa won the champions league first year at pool. dennis law wasn't bad, but again, he were active in an era when a given defender wouldn't even be suited to today's english 3rd division. and that says extremely much. i wouldn't place law in the top 10 greatest forwards of all-time. perhaps top 25. ruud is also a fox in the box but with a bit of skill.
@dsdan83 well rafa came to liverpool as a top 4 club ferguson took over a man utd side in the bottom 4 of the league so he had a harder task to do, dennis law was great i never said he ws in the top 10 strikers ever, so your saying bekenbeur would be shit today then, and law played part of his carrer when cryuff played and yea ruud had abit of skill but so did muller in his prime in his prime he was more than a fox in the box. why would it matter how defenders back then would do in todays game
@dsdan83 if i'm theloon99 you must be desperate dan haha, also asee you can't get back on the gerrard point as you seen you were wrong that he is a box to box midfielder that when played in center midfield showed he was one, also a few weeks ago you said robson never did anything for england i said what have holland did since 1988 tell me that.
@dsdan83 quite why you take a personally offensive tone is beyond me but perhaps you are just an offensive person in which case I won't waste my time further in dealing with you. Goodbye.
as an irish fan, it's highly unlikely you have anything meaningful or intriguing to announce when it comes to football. so it's sensible of you to realise you can't be part of this discussion. if only you would be able to contaminate theloon99 somehow, as i he makes equally precious little sense in everything he says.
@dsdan83 i make more sence than you after all you thought that because lampard and gerrard are center midfielders that that means there creative players haha, you also don't think brittian has had any skillful players and that gerrard was not a box to box player when he is, you fail to see two holding players were used only when gerrard was not in center midfield remember a strikers job is to score goals muller was better at that than kluivet while having more ablity to.
u do ur name as loon sincerely proud. muller had no skill. no brilliant technique. no speed. wasn't great at linking up. he was just a killer. he got the ball in the box, and shot. frequently with success. as a dude from the land where footballers have always zero flair, it shoud be easy enough for you to grasp. alas, ur poor level of understanding is astounding. 4-2-3-1 includes of one central attacking mid, 2 wide players, and 2 anchoring mids. u englishmen r unbelievable.
@dsdan83 no speed muller had good pace in his prime loser, zero flair haha you are a loser england and scotland has had many players with flair you are the lone after all you are the dumb fuck that says bryan robson never brought it with england when he did, what has holland done since 1988 and stop getting away from my gerrard point your stupid to think rafa used to holding players when gerrard was in midfield.
the only flair your compatriots have is to kick the ball forwards which is then proceeded by running as hastily after it as one can. i don't recall robson having made any significant major tournament in which england was present. you seem quite eager to defend him since you use faulty argumentation to illustrate any noteworthy non-achievements. holland has reached a world-cup final since 88 and 3 semi-finals in 1 wc and 2 euros. plz simply admit u don't even know who gerd muller is.
@dsdan83 again name me these brittish playerts from the past that were just kick and rush tom finney was not click in rush niether was best, niether was gazza bobby charlton was'nt either either was jim baxter,dennis law i could go on and to say kluivert is better than muller is pathetic, robson played many great games for england the fact holland did better means nothing interms of what he gave for england
@thetoon99 Mate you are from Britain, the homeland of football so you might be able to correct me on this...I have not been able to find any nation which was so totally and utterly reliant on Britiah managerial talent for so many decades as were the Dutch. Do you know of any others? I mean surely 15 British managers for the national team is a record for any non UK Football Association.
as a dutchman, i have of course seen plenty of muller, lest i forget what trauma had laid upon us in 74. but the goal which he scored in that final illustrates perfectly what type of striker he was. he received the ball, didn't think, turned and instinctively shot. perhaps the goalkeeper should have been more aware of muller's predatory instincts, then again, i think even any of today's superior keepers wouldn't have saved such a devious but precise glory shot.
i am not like u, i don't find excuses for an honourable defeat. though in the case of the u-21 side. one must be incredibely biased towards scots or be severely mentally depleted not to be able to recognise the dutch u-21 is far superior to scots and a regrettable lack of motivation and desire is what cost the dutch what shudda been a logical victory. germany outclassed our senior side. although it is worth mentioning we missed key players. nevertheless, our defending was abominable.
@dsdan83 of course holland are better than scotland at all levels, its just you made an excuse for hollands defeat to england at euro 96 so i was kinda joking thinking you would make an excuse for there defeats now, and well i never seen the match but you can't win then all and i heard scotland put up a good fight we got the win because of our effort.
and be sure to tell me which games i have made excuses for over a loss
@dsdan83 you must feel sad that holland are not as great as they used to be there still great, but not as great all over the pitch they don't compre to there 80s or 70s sides, must also make you sad that the dutch league is so poor and that any good player leraves first chance he gets to go to countrys like england.
I feel fairly desponded after a Dutch defeat. Irrespective of opponent. I don't feel sad about our current side. I am worried about our defence. Our defenders haven't the same abilities of world-class defenders. However, as I pointed out already, heart & desire can accomplish success. In that sense we do share a commonality with the skill-less Scots. When our defenders display courage and passion, we can shut out Germany in a next encounter. Or, at the least, prevent minimal damage.
@dsdan83 well thats the sign of the times in football history, in all grerat teams they have a decline in many ways as other teams rise as in spain now where as there was france before and brazil as top dogs then holland of course in the 80s and 70s ect
@thetoon99 swings and cycles mate. Reynolds etc taught push and run to the Dutch. It became total Football, Cruyff taught Total Football to Barcelona. It became titi taka and now Spain dominate but i see signs of slight decay in Barca/Spain as Xavi begins to age and Iniesta is a bit injury prone. Time was when Hungary dominated. Who knows what will be next.
Push & run isn't remotely similar to the complex & intricate system which is Total Football. An absurd & totally false statement from u tigerarmyfail, one which can be compared with e.g "Ireland is full of beautiful women". Actually, one of the elements belonging to Total Football is the phenomenon by which any type of attacker and any type of defender can switch roles at will. This certainly isn't part of Spain's style of play. Puyol can't score goals and Villa can't defend.
The kind of opportunistic reply I expected from a light-weight. However, it serves as a reminder of what kind I am dealing with, and perhaps only future explanations at 2nd grade level would be appropriate for loon and your understanding. Of course I was obviously stipulating Puyol isn't a natural goal-scorer and Villa isn't a natural defender. However, I'm sure Villa is capable of pulling off a Jaap Stam-like sliding tackle once every while.
@dsdan83 Is the opportunist reply you mention the one in which I cite a player scoring a few hours after you said he couldn't? Is that the one you mean?
@tigerarmyrule well i play fair yea i have a debate with him, but if i think hes right on certain points or misunderstood in a point i will say. i would do the same with you to defend if you got misunderstood
@tigerarmyrule btw mate dsdan he just taught me that in a 4-2-3-1 that the second striker gerrard in that formation under rafa he was not really playing behinde toress but in center midfierld, man i neveer knew this maybe bergkamp for all his years playing for holland and aresnal was really playing in center midfield haha we should thank dan for teaching us that a second striker is a center midfielder haha
@thetoon99 I think poor old Danny Boy is losing the plot completely. His inability to judge anything about British football fairly is so obvious that it is difficult for him to make sense. He's been done up like a kipper on this thread.
You both type out a lot and you both essentially express virtually nothing sensible. British football isn't my strongest interest when it comes to football - is there a justifiable reason there should be for the pure football lover - but I know a fair bit. What is your name btw? you seem to call me Danny Boy at times, what do I call you? if you're another Paddy or rather I'll try not to laugh.
@dsdan83 that team set up came out wrong but in a 4-2-3-1 tactic gerrard is not playing in center midfield, hes playing in the same role in that formation as bergkamp did many times for holland behind another styriker these are facts, to say i'm informed is stupid as many a team sheet will show i'm right, in 4-2-3-1 there is only 2 cm not 3 so if rafa choose to line them up as a dm style role then thats ok, but the point is gerrard is not playing center midfield in it, he did but with xabi
@dsdan83 maybe you should watch brittish football since your league is poor and a bredding ground for english clubs to take the best players in holland from haha, you need to learn tactics gerrard only ever played center midfield for liverpool in a 4-4-2 ,4-5-1 and 4-3-3 4-2-3-1 is not him in center midfield you stupid retard, what type of players are lampard and gerrard to you
@dsdan83 i looked that up the real madrid games gerrard came on as a sub in the 1 nil win then in the 4 nil win he played up behind toress you dumb fuck shitty dutch country boy
It is quite astounding how ur relentless pursuit of your desire of wanting to turn your 100% fail into a 0.1% succeed. It's perfectly clear to many u have lost the plot entirely and you're merely spewing out diatribe for the sake of it being a rare and proper skill u do have. If Stevo were another striker, the system would be formulated as 4-2-2-2. But that is not the case. Gerrard is, and has always been, a midfielder. It's peculiar, I speak far better English than u an Englishman.
@dsdan83 he was not playing as a striker he was playing as a second striker in the 4-2-3-1 formation fool not center midfield, he also played many gams as as right winger for liverpool i am telling you facts that are online, he played behind toress not on the same level as him he played behind toress in the same role bergkamp did playing behind henry for years, its facts i'm telling you its all online and on rafa liverpool team sheets you spaz
I haven't argued he never operated as RW, when he did it was to compensate, it is beyond question his strongest position is as CM. Rafa certainly used 2 anchors, I've said is many a times, u are just so ignorant. Xabi isn't a deep-lying play maker. He is a link between defense & attack. He doesn't provide passes which lead to real goal-scoring opportunities. u know plainly nothing about how Football works. Instead, tell Paddy to come out of hiding. An Irishman should have more balls.
@dsdan83 again whats the hell does this have to do qwith what postion gerrard worked best in, in a 4-2-3-1 formation hes playing as a second strikwer that is fact i saw it with my own eyes and you can to if you look up rafa team sheets with that formation, and yea rafa used two anchors but not when gerrard played in center midfield like you said gerrard was either playing right wing or as a second striker when rafa played two dm, in 08/09 he played it most as a second striker
@dsdan83 again dumass thats the point alnso as the link between the defence and attack he got the ball deeop and played great passes foward, he does not have to provide passes that lead to goals he gave passes that got th play to the final 3rd again its you it plainly knows nothing about football i am telling you facts you can look up
@dsdan83 the point you have been arguing with me is you saying gerrard was not a box to box player as rafa, used two holding players when gerrard played center midfierld which is wrong, you never really watch english football just like i never watch dutch football so on the case of gerrard your wrong what i'm telling you can be found on google how he lined up in a 4-2-3-1 as look at him in center midfield he played with alonso the most so there only one holding player not two see
I do believe I watch Liverpool and the Premier League. But as an envious Scotsman, I can understand that you don't. Gerrard never partnered Xabi as an anchor, that's nonsense. In your 2nd to last diatribe you contradict yourself again my dear boy. There you clearly state Stevo did function as a CM. I'm glad you have finally caught on, though I'm fairly confident enough to proclaim any of the great apes has a quicker comprehension level than you. Xabi passed to Stevo is what I meant.
@dsdan83 again i said from the start that gerrard was a center midfielder but he could and did play a few other postions, and duh thats the point when played in center midfield gerrard never played as an anchor duh i never said he did play as an anchor, thats what i've said all long rafa nerver played two when gerrard played next to xabi or anyone in center midfield as gerrard ould get box to box as hes a center midfieldrr duh, and i watch the prem ever week dildo
@dsdan83 glad to see you finally get i am scottish and not an english map have you been taking up map; reading weldone dan hope that goes well for you, again this debate about gerrard has been with me saying from the start that he did play in center midfield and his type is a box to box he will get up and down the park box to box, you pointed out he was not box to box as rafa played two holding players i pointed out fact he only did if gerrard was not in center midfield, so stop twisting things
It is easy to distinguish these nations. One is easy to conquer and easy to trounce 6-0, the other is not. Rafa played 2 anchors while Steve was CM. Given sites will illustrate this for you in black and white and in plain English. Alas, you have a severely selective way of comprehension and interpretation. It would not surprise me you will next argue Scotland in fact did qualify to the elimination round at a certain tournament. When those momentous losers really did not.
@dsdan83 again your wrong in thios 4-2-3-1 that you point out he played they anchors gerrard is not playing in the cm postion its fact, he played up behind toress in that tactic just like how van de vart does not play cm for spurs in there current formation he plays up behind adeboyor
@dsdan83 i know scoptland are shit and even in our best years we failed to step it uop i'm not a biased cunt likwe you i would make my nation and players out to be better than everyone else.
Just so you do fully understand and will always be aware of the fact which states that Johan Cruyff is the greatest there ever was and there ever will be. For when I say this I am not, in the remotest sense, behaving chauvinistic, for instead I make an utterly legitimate claim through the eyes of any thoroughbred football lover.
@dsdan83 you are pathetic i'm done talking to you we were debating gerrard, i proved you wrong but i decided to praise cruyff since you brouight him up as he deserves, but when i brought up a lergend gary speed that died today you put him down that says you are the lowest kind of human being good bye
It ironic for you are done talking with me when everyone is done talking with you. You shall not demonize me for the sake of taking things out of context. A loss of anyone's life is to be mourned, but not in the comment section of a Johan Cruyff video. For it was also you who initiated to steer the conversation towards English players. But I feel obliged to correct you from yet another gross error on your part due to your deranged manner of interpreting basic fact. Spurs play 4-4-2.
@dsdan83 its kinda sad you can't juat admit i proved you wrong that in 4-2-3-1 where rafa played two hol;ding players gerrard was not one of them, he pl;ayed behind toress in it in the role van der vart plays for spurs, when i told you that you changed the subject that says alot about you.
@dsdan83 You are a guy who sprays man-jizz all over the room whenever you open your cock-gobbling mouth. Bring your best stuff because I'm going to FedEX you back to your family in tiny pieces, mate.
@dsdan83 gerrard by trade is a center midfielder but hes a player that can play a few diffrent postions, when he played in center misfield rafa never used to holding players as gerrard was 1 of his 2 cm, in a 4-2-3-1 gerrard played behind toress as a second striker not an out and out striker look this up on google
You're quite something loon. Are you in possession of any other pearls of wisdom, the kind of wisdom which displays the insight a child at the age of reason would otherwise also fathom.
Btw, I was always right on Gerrard, much thanks for pointing that out constantly. Gerrard indeed played as central midfielder with 2 anchoring midfielders behind and to the side of him, under Rafa's 4-2-3-1 system. Gerrard isn't an outstanding tackler nor retriever of the ball. So it's illogical to assume he could be a box to box type.
@dsdan83 gerrrard when played as a ccenter midfielder never played with two anchoring players in a 4-2-3-1 he played up behind torress not in center midfield haha and do you even know what box to box means it means a player with great energy that gets from box to box.
and yea thats under rafa 4-2-3-1 where gerrard never played center midfield dumbass he played much higher up the pitch
@dsdan83 in a 4-2-3-1 the only center midfielders in the center midfield role are the two holding players gerrard in that was either playuing right wing or behind toress when gerrard lined up as 1 of 2 center midfielders he played it with xabi the most as gerrard can get box to box so they never needed to holding players with him as a center midfielderr when PLayed there
You make as precious little sense as from the very first sentence you had written in reply to a comment from me. Anchors - Xabi&Masch&Lucas. Gerrard CM. Kuyt&Babel/Riera wings. Torres ST. Your are so uninformed loon, it's ridiculous.
@dsdan83 what rubbish send me links to this so your saying they lined up with 1 center midfielder no team ever does that, in that 4-2-3-1 the 2 bit is the two anchors that are playing in center midfield you dumbass, when gerrard played in center midfield he only played with 1 of they 3 players and xabio is not an anchor hes a deep lying playmaker.
@dsdan83 gerrard played on the right wing alot and as a second striker during rafa time in the 4-2-3-1 formation gerrard was not playing as a center midfielder so i proved you wrong dumbass when plasyed in center midfield rafa never played to holding players that is fact, in a 4-2-3-1 gerrard is playing behind torress supporting him, another name for this formation is 4-2-2-1-1, show me how you would set this 4-2-3-1 up with gerrard in the team the way rafa in your mind did
@dsdan83 you say i'm uninformned what i'm telling you is facts in a 4-2-3-1 gherrard is not playing as a center midfield gioogle to see a team sheet of rafa using that for proof, if he was playing center midfield in it it would be a 4-3-2-1 you thick cunt go away and learn football i'm telling you facts you can find on google, with liverpool team sheets from rafas time.
They are not the facts my uninformed boy Gram. For example, against Real Madrid in the CL, LP played 4-2-3-1 with Stevo as CM. You further illustrate you're so uninformed. In EURO 96, in our opening match against some low flying team, Bergy started as CM with Ronald de Boer as central striker in a 4-3-3 formation. In fact, Bergy played on many a ocassion as CM in his early Ajax days.
@dsdan83 ok but bergkamp was not playing center midfield when lined up behind a striker dumass like you tried to say gerrard was, again use google you will see what i say to be true and ok if thats true was gerrard one of the 2 in the two part.
as in rafa's 4-2-3-1 this is a team he would sometimes field mascherano alonso
@dsdan83 its also so funny that i owned you on my gerrard point what was that you were saying about rafa playing two holding players when gerrard played center midfield haha
@dsdan83 yea 4-2-3-1 does include that loser but in that role as the attacking midfielder gerrard is not lining up as a box to box player, dumb fuck as hes not playing in center midfield haha your point was that gerrard was not a box to box midfielder as rafa played 2 holding players when gerrard was in center midfield, as i already said the only time rafa played two holding players was when gerrard was not played as an out and out center midfielder and i was right
@dsdan83 i'm still waiting for you about scholes again and how hes shit because certain players did a certain skill better, also i'm waiting for you to name me brittish players from the past that you say were kick and rush with no skill how would you know what john charles was like if you never even seen a clip of him
@dsdan83 also one last thing man utd job is to win not to meet what you want, also your educated good for you bet your parents paid for you to go to a top school weldone but you learned fuck all, also google gerarrd box to box midfielder and haha what do you see, but wait no no the exsperts are wrong right as your right haha and yes my interpretation of attacking football is flwed why because its not the same opinion as yours right.
1st thing, stop pm'ing me gram, i ain't gay like u. if u observed r9 and kluivert properly, u would've seen kluivert was the more skillful player. he had incredible close control, the ball was always glued to his foot, he could outplay defender on pure skill, whereas r9 did it more on speed, and the dutch master was a tremendous header. in know heading isn't everything, but fact is r9 was a poor header of the ball. i get the impression ur a pom whose a man u fan. right.
@dsdan83 whats your next poor reply that what kuyt is better than ronaldo to, and i'm a newcastle and rangers fan you know rangers with the 54 league titles
@nick1177 mate dsdan knows shit about football he thinks man utd is a shit sizec club, he thinks that all brittish players in history have lacked skill,great passing,dribbling vison and other skills and were just hard qworkers its kinda sad really to paint a guy like best ect as just another dirk kuyt when there clips that prove that wrong.
ah, a newbie, opening his irrepressible little mouth. like a dog that can't control it's tail. footballing colleagues regularly dish such compliment out to one another like u mentioned above for the sake of being social & nice. maradona once stated messi, and at time messi was still only 22 i believe, is already a better player than he was. any thoroughbred football enthusiast knows maradona is still one of the top 3 greatest players of all-time, regardless of he may've said himself.
@dsdan83 right lets ignore that every single last player in the world has basically said that about scholes including every coach who has ever gone against man utd. but you know i'm sure every last one was just a basic compliment.
we all know you're merely saying this for the sake of a fruitless attempt to contain yourself in this debate. even a layman understands you'll never be able to prove what you just stated and a remark such as "basically every single player in the world.." is just pathetic in itself.
@dsdan83 why compare him to diffrent players kaka was a dribbler and iniesta is to, scholes was more in the mould of xavi but could score many more goals outside the box as you agreed with me he could, in his last 5 years he sat deeper for utd bering there playmaker watch videos of him on here from the last few years you will see his touch and vision.
also do you need a map of brittian to see that i'm scottish not english or would you like if i called you belgium
@dsdan83 and outside it with his great shooting, you are a real retard you proved to me you know shiot about football with many of your points yea in the last 20 to 30 years there has been every little true great brittish players to live up to the greats of holland ect.
but in the 50s and 60s and a few in the 70s,80s there was great brittish players with skills that you admire in the great dutch players, i will name the names for you and you can watch clips of them ok
@dsdan83 also you do know like mvb and gullit brittian has had players like them that had great power and skill.
and remind me who was it that pele said taught people how football should be played with great skill, thats righht it was stanley matthews and english man
He is better dan messi
syrianheart 1 week ago
Heb
syrianheart 1 week ago
Gran jugador.
yorugua1622 3 weeks ago
what the hell is wrong here? the last 10 pages are a conversation between thetoon99 and dsdan83.
FakieInwardHeelflip1 1 month ago
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8020dodi 1 month ago
1. click show all coments
2. look at how long the discussion is that 2 people are having.
3. laugh at them.
keeshond5 2 months ago 2
@keeshond5
Peculiar you should take humor at this discussion, when a lot of humor can be taken from your name. It is quite ridiculous.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 My name isn't funny. It's just kind of stupid. And it's a very old username. If I could change it I would, but I am not deleting my accout over it.
keeshond5 2 months ago
@keeshond5 did you see the shit dsdan was talking on this video haha, if you know your football please twell him in a 4-2-3-1 when rafa at liverpool played two holding players please tell dan that gerrard was not playing cm like he says but he was playing behind torres
thetoon99 2 months ago
@keeshond5
It is funny for it made me giggle, be it only for a brief moment. I would also agree it is a rather stupid name. Certainly an F when it comes to creative originality.
dsdan83 2 months ago
watch?v=zxIQ48ovWEY
heyimmundy 2 months ago
As an Everton fan it is interesting to note that one of our great forwards, Edgar Chadwick, was manager of the Dutch side for years and brought them to competitive positions at the 1908 and 1912 olympics putting the Dutch on the map for the first time. He was among the 15 or so British managers who managed the Dutch. I underestimated the debt owed by the Dutch to the home of football. Most continental sides were nowhere near as dependent on Britain for so long.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
Un-BELIEEEEEVABLE TEKKERS
FIM2010 2 months ago
brilliant!
ohcharlottemyman 2 months ago
Gerrard or Adam the superior box to box player? Gerrard.
Ronaldo or Kluivert the best player? In all honesty is this being argued? Ronaldo of course. Kluivert ranks with the likes of Neeskens and Jansen from '74. No better. Good, very good, almost great but not quite all time great material.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
FUCK THE SYSTEM
012Brutusik210 2 months ago
Id watch thsi over and over again, pure skill at best.
ThinkingAgent12 3 months ago
proud to be dutch
TheMaurice500 3 months ago
seriously gram, you ain't tough just ridiculous. that fairly decent english side beat us that day in 96 because we didn't have a full-strength side and there was commotion within the team camp. stop drooling over robson. he's a player pretty much everyone outside of england doesn't give a toss about. prolly cos he never brought it for england, only united. and the epl wasn't popular worldwide yet in the 80s. hoddle, same shit different asshole.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 you know shit and really you are going to defend that defeat loser, robson was a great player and who cares if the league was not as big in the 80s, and football is a team game and robson was great for england if you mean he was shit for england as they never won anything remind me what has holland won since 1988 tell me that danny the fanny, and name me all these kick and rush brittish players from the past with no skill bet you can't name over 10
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
gram dun be a lil boy now. i proven i know a lot more bout football, specially continental football as u english call it, than u. don't even go near van basten and gullit. no sad excuses of a british player comes anywhere near these two wizards. mvb undoubtedly was/is the best striker of all time. capello was crying when van basten said goodbye in the san siro due to a premature retirement. while the same capello is considering leaving that freak rooney out of his euro 2012 squad.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 i'm scottish you freak and get a life loser britian has produced players with great skill and power like they to you freak, let me see no one from brittian comes near van basten yet john charles a player with great skill and power was voted ahead of van basten as the best player to play in italy.
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 you know shit about football you proved that by thinking brittian has never had any players with skill you fail so come on fag its funny how you don't reply the points in my last post wharts wrong you can't and you can't name me 5 kick and rush brittisah players from the past john charles had more power and skill than ronaldo who you droll over.
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 so rooneys a freak yet hes better than any player in the holland team just now, see you hate brittish oplayers you prove that by calling rooney a freak and rooney is allways the first team on the england team sgheet but he has a 3 game ban at euro 2012 so thats why he may be left behind.
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
britain produced nothing of skill n flair except besides george best, but you already know where i stand on him. besides, he were n irish not english like u so don't get to overly proud over him. i'm aware that rooney, the ill-disciplined wank, got a three game ban. but that capz is willing to leave him on the side of the road just mean he don't need rooney all that bad. fabio reckons he can get far into the tournament without your over-rated love obsession.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 yea he was irish and for the last time i'm not english i'm scotttish england and scotland are two diffrent countrys, and well brtian had other great skillful players that had great vision,passing,dribbling ect that your country is knowen for, best had it yea but others did to brittish is fam ous for great dribblers on the wings matthews,finney,jimmy johnston look him up he could dribble,even giggs who is still playing was a great dribbler.
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 why the hell do you keep thinking i'm english i don't give a shit how the england manager feels about rooney or how england do they will fail as always i am scottish not english and why should i not be proud about geore best i am proud of any great player.
also i admire van persie the most out of all the dutch players today, he was class today but how do you know best is the only player from these parts thats had skill,flair,dribbling,vision
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 tell me why best the only brittish player to ever have skill,grace,flair,vison paul scholes you must have admired him he was far from the kick and rush style you hate he had great passing,vision great touch was a quik thinker like xavi, everyone adsmired scholes even dutch greats like davis seedrof,van basten.
also what do you think of great brittish clubs like man utd,liverpool
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
your compatriot scholes, even in his hey day, was a fine player but no more. brits in the past 20-30 yrs or so only endured small phases of excellence. but they never prolonged it for years on end like you see with dutch, german, brazilian et al players. the ginger ninja can't even polish xavi's or seedorf's boots so you really have to stop making me laugh so much u ridiculous english fellow. jimmy johnston? is that a cartoon character lool.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 compatriot hes not my compatriot hes english i'm scottish two diffrent countrys, and well yea i agree all the true great brittish players came years ago
what part of i'm not english don't you get are you really a retard, scholes i'm not here to argue whos he better than i just pointed out he had some of the skills xavi ect are famous for now, in the 90s early 200s scholes was a more complete player than xavi he did what xavi did while being a threat in the attacking box
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
scholes was fairly good at passing and a very good shooter from just outside the box. but nothing much more than that. he never had the vision and awareness of iniesta, the twinkle-toe footwork and technique of seedorf, or the speed of kaka. so stop comparing this one-dimensional compatriot of yours to players far more worthy of the tag "play maker". that scholes was always misused in the england team also says something.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 scholes was never misused in the england team intill lampard came in gerrard was englands box to box player could attack and defend, so he was a must in midfield to win the ball and lampard could only play center midfield so sven fitted all 3 in the only weay he could in a 442 putting scholes out wide left.
i'm not here to get in to debate about who scholes was better than, but he had great vision and a great touch that was for sure he could get the ball and play the pass xavi could
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
scholes was shifted out wide because the coach never had much faith in him as the central point of england's attacks. that he was sacrificed for two other mediocre so-called "creative midfielders", namely lampard n gerrard, also says something. you really are the most ridiculous englishman of all-time if you keep comparing scholes to xavi. in example is, in 10 yrs time nobody will be talking about scholes anymore while everyone will still remember xavi.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 are you fucking stupid i am scottish look up a map scotland and england are two diffrent countrys when i say brittian and brittish players i mean wales,scotland,n ireland players from they countrys. again who ever said lampard and gerrard were creative players no one ever did, gerrard has long been seen as box to box while lampard has always been goal scoring midfielder learn football and buy a map of brittian please.
mr holland boy but wtf i will call you belguim boy
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 again you put scholes down so you are calling people in football liars like alex ferfguson and pepe xavis manager and others that say scholes was the english version of xavi.
anyway why the fuck we debating scholes you pointed out in the last 30 years brittish football has had every few players with the skill set that holland ect are famous for i agreed but said scholes was one interms of passing,touch vision now you put him down, if he was dutch your small dick would be hard over him
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
man utd didn't want sneijder that bad. and i'm glad he didn't go cos he would've suffocated under man u's boring style of play. u englishmen would prolly said it's highly entertaining. that's cos u never watch anything outside of ur tiny island. gerrard isn't a box 2 box player. if he were, he wouldn't play with 2 def mids in his back at liverpool. keep dreaming that scholes was ever good enough to come near xavi's class. i'm sure u dream every night england can win the wc again.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 again why the fuck would i care if england won the world cup, are you getting this i'm from scotland scotland has nothing to do with england i've only ever set foot in england once, and haha man utd boring you are pathetic they attack teams only barcalona and real madrid could be seen as having a stronger team, gerrard is a box to box player he player when played in center midfield he never had two def mids it was only when gerrard played up front or right wing that rafa had def mids
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 why was scholes not in xavi's class haha, and i guess you hate premier league football in england but wait hah th dutch league is so much better, is that why all the best players there move to other countrys like england when was the last time a dutch team won the champions league, on scholes is funny you put him down taking skills of other players that did better than him like kaka being faster, so was Patrick Kluivert shit then because he never had the dribbling and pace of ronaldo
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 so was van der sar shit then since he played for man utd and you do know man utd is a team made up of alot of forien players but waiot there shit forgien players to you haha
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
man utd play languid football. a proper observant is able to recognise that. u may've noticed how their only tactical approach to last season's cl final against barca was to bury themselves in. and barca was still brilliant enough to play them off the park. ur blind also apparently. daglish, too, plays with 2 holding mids behind one centre mid - usually gerrard. kluivert was technically far more superior to r9. kluivert scored many goals too. vds is the best keeper of his generation.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 You would live homeless if the dutch club you support could be as dominant as man utd have been in the last 20 odd years, man utd play great attacking football so what man utd getting beat vs barcelona the best team in the world makes man utd shit, they tried to attack barcelona but they are not as good as barca, also the fact scholes did not have certain skills as good as some players shouldf have no baring on how hes rated.
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 also kluivert bertter than (R9) ronaldo thats messed up you say that because hes dutch whats next was ruud van better than Ronaldo to and say Henry, also you know shit how many times did you watch liverpool under rafa he only ever played to holding players when Gerrard was not in midfield he played behide Torres or on the right wing when rafa used to holding players, again Dalglish does not use holding players only one Lucas not two so whos the other holding player
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 Gerrard has only played like 5 times undfer Dalglish he was out for months last season, then got injuried again this season his first start was against Man utd this season at the start of the season Kenny played a 433 with 3 midfielders Adam is not a holding player if you think that hes like a deep lying play maker the role they had for Alonso Lucas is the holding player and they had Henderson as the other midfielder who attacked to,in 442 they play Adam and Lucas thats 1 holding player
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
you silly little boy gram. i'd never be homeless cos i'm educated and smart. i never said man u is shit but we clearly have a different understanding of what is attacking, attractive football. only ur interpretation is flawed. give it rest bout scholes already. nobody outside ur country england still talks about him. kluivert had more technique than ronaldo. but r9 was obviously more explosive and bit more clinical. adam is the box2box guy at pool not gerrard.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 Adam can't dfefend hes not box to box hes a deep lying playmaker that plays passes from deep then gets foward, ok so you think kluivert was bertter tell me why he was better as where is his world player of the year awards, and i gave you facts on liverpool ok fool Gerrard is a box to box midfielder that is a midfielder that shows great energy and can't chasde back tackle and then drive foward viera was another in his prime
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 tell me how many times have you watched a man utd league game in the last year, they play great attacking football quick passing as well and they've won the league 3 times out of 4 season does that meannothing, and my country haha scholes is not from my country and no one talks about scholes really so xavi,pep,zidane,ronaldo and more there all enbglish then haha get the facts scholes was great and gerard is a box to box midfielder ok
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 btw that eden hazzerd from your country is a good young player so is the other at chelsea
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
i like him too. better than any of ur compatriots from the three lions team. since neither of us are scottish, let's laugh at how pathetic they are. can't remember they last did anything significant.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 I'm scottish or did yuou not read my channel laugh at scotland all you like i know where shit, and have not been to a world cup since 1998, i watched r9 and kluivert alot tell me why kluivert was the more skillful, ronaldo had great close control to and outplayed any player,yea ronaldo did it at more speed which is harder watch his clips at barcelona he dribbled by players with great speed and control to say kluivert is better is a joke he did nothing aparet from head better than ron
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
kluivert's ball-control was sublime. just think of van persie but even a rung higher up. ronaldo mainly glided past players through his sheer speed. he wasn't a gifted dribbler a la van basten or zico. you talk about charlie nobody but you seem unbelievably unaware of how truly great former players were. you're exaggerating about kuyt my boy. the scottish league is extremely uncompetitive. so i wouldn't be too proud about those 54 league titles if i were you. it just don't mean much.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 the scottish league for years used to have a time where 4 0r 5 teams could win it even look at aberdeen and dundee utd both won cups in europe.
so ronaldo used his pace alot hes still better than the dutch man, and i'm unbelievably unware of how good some players were no thats you john chrles was a great talent he had everything needed in a striker and defender he could run the whole lenth of the pitch with the ball
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
stop looking into the distant past kid. spl been a two-horse race since living memory. and mine stretches back to about 86. i seen charlie apples. as i said several times previously already, he played during a time my granny would've been better at defending than the average player in the era. you don't need to hear more bout your compatriot scholes cos their ain't nothin more to say about him. he was pretty decent in his hey day but a fair mid when put in a wider perspective.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 you never saw john charles weird you praise kluivert yet put down charles who was a far better player, also 86 yea thats a long time in football but rtangers have been playuing for over a 100 years up intill the early 90s a few teams could win the league aberdeen did 3 times undr alex ferguson in the 80s, also the dutch league for years has been a 2 team league, with ajax and psv in the last few years itys been more open but, so was cryuff shit then he played in the day of shit defend
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 so was cryuff shit to because he played against the same type of players charles did, also i'm still waiting for you to get back to me on gerrard you know shit you think hwe was not a biox to box player and he is, and rafa never used two holding players when gerrard played in the center
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
cruyff was active later than charlie. every1 could see cruyff was the closest thing to being the complete player there's ever been. the vision and leadership qualities which cruyff had/has u didn't see w/ charlie apples, so give it up. when rafa was coach he played xabi & masch/lucas behind stevo. god u dun pay attention much do ya. kluivert in terms of ball technique is one of the finest strikers of all-time. he let himself down cos lack of motication & injuries cut his time short.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 again what do you know about john charles ablities as a player cruyff played against the same qulity that cxharles did, you ar so biased towards holland its not real where were all these great holland players in the 60s, john charles is the best forien player to ever play for juventus even cruyff liked him, also your wrong when gerrard played center midfield only 1 holding player played behind him it that is fact or he played xabi who is a deep lying play maker next to him.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
i'm not interested in what some one else has to say in the sphere of this discussion. it's as if i need to use some random nobody's opinion to make urs seem more worthy. perhaps u lack the mental capacities to put any substantial weight in anything u wish to argue. i don't think cruyff would say charlie is the best after zidane's period with juve. knowing how deep cruyff's understanding of the game is. under rafa, pool played 4-2-3-1 with in mid stevo and two anchors on his back.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 who cares what cryuff would say the fansd that saw charles rated him the best juventus player ever accept it, you know shit about the game you have proved that and i never used anyone in this debate if others reply you its because they see how retarded you are about football, yea i think rafa did play that sometimes but then gerrard fwas playing behind the striker not as a box to box midfield you fool, the point i made was he never played two holding with gerrard in center midfield ok
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 No point arguing with him mate. Dutch is good. British is bad. Law and Best were useless as was Ballon d'or winner Owen. Do you actually remember Kluivert ( how many ballons d'or? None ) at Newcastle. I don't. He made no impression at all in the biggest league of all. A few goals when part of the Barca system but failed in Milan as well as England. Obviously on a par with Puskas and Muller then tee hee hee.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule haha yea kluivert on his day was a good striker never a great one
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 The best one was dismissing Muller. Rafa is a better manager than Fergie....Rafa is unemployed. Law played against poor defenders. Well then so did Cruyff and Van Basten neither of whom would cut the mustard in the bigger Leagues nowadays. The Dutch used to have a league but now its a feeder league like in Ireland. Barca used to take them but the game has moved on and barca don't use them anymore...probably because the modern Dutch player is technically deficient at top level.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule being fair ro him he agreed that ferguson was better than rafa, to say cruff and van basten could not play today is madeness mate, most players today can't lace there boots only messi today comes close to cruyffs level and that was cruyff in the day of harder ball and worse pitches
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 Of course Cruyff was superb. I'm just showing how silly it is to dismiss the past as if players then had one leg. If we want to dismiss one forward because allegedly defence was poor them let's dismiss them all.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
in the 50s and mostly throughout the 60s, defending in general was truly abysmal. you like to boast about ireland's minimal contribution to football. but ajax's biggest successes, in the 70s and 90s, would never have been possible with any form of irish influence. it's a pity euro 2012 has to put with such quality-less and laughable sides such as the men who wear slime coloured shirts.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 I don't boast at all. Ireland has made little contribution to football which is a British game. The British taught the Irish to play as they did with the Dutch. The fact that your club was managed by Brits for decades simply proves my point. You'll bluster and insult since that is your way of avoiding the point but I'll still be correct. Brits built Ajax my old mucker and no amount of sneering abuse from you changes that.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
football isn't such a complicated sport. i'm pretty certain the dutch, or any race that it is at least adequately intelligent, would've mastered the discipline of football without guidance from the british. your point is void so it's impossible for you to have proven a point. as i already stipulated, the seeds of any major success ajax have achieved is of absolutely no reward to anyone with british ties. cruyff's and michel's brilliant philosophy on football is all i need to say.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 You may be pretty certain the Dutch could have taught themselves but the fact is they didn't. The British did. I am telling you facts of football history. You may not like these facts but facts they are. I understand that your hate of Britain means you want to wish away the decades of British management at your club but that is the reality. British managers built Ajax. Telling me the point is void does not change history.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
i'm not uncomfortable with hearing facts my boy. just as i pointed out the fact that ajax successes isn't thankful to anything british. creating a club is one thing, achieving success is much more difficult. as an irishman i do not expect you to understand such a concept. what is probably so sad and ironic about your whole tiresome story is that nowadays the premier league would be a quality-less competition without foreign players and coaches.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 So you accept that Britons built Ajax. At least there is some recognition of reality. OK you are Dutch. Few if any continental countries were so dependent for so long on British managers for their major club and national teams and obviously this fact irritates you and you want to forget it. Irrational and illogical but understandable from an emotional perspective so I understand your defensiveness and will overlook your offensive personal remarks
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule no i can't think of others its almost likle the dutch whole history was made by the brittish haha, but what the hell he can't see that
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 Oh he can see it very well mate.....that is why the denial of history, the insults, the sneering etc are his response. You can bet your shirt he had no idea that the Dutch were so in debt to British football until I told him. He has never heard of names like Chadwick and Reynolds....the creators of Dutch football and being anti British he doesn't want to know. Any response to this will be a mix of denial of history and anti irish sneering.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
i never denied brits built ajax and u will find it impossible to find a concrete illustration of such denial. It seems u have such an urge to deliver a trivial fact home as to make it seem these facts had any influence on the peaks of Ajax's history. we have never been dependent on brits nor is there unquestionable evidence to suggest that. to make it understandable for u, has dutch football ever been in near collapse cos of a lack of british football influence? the answr is no.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 Dan you latest response of free of anti Irish sneering and actually engages with the issue at hand so well done. On the isue "dependence" tends to mean overuse due to need. Perhaps the "need" wasn't there but there was definitely an overuse of British managers. You say they had no influence. It is arguable isn't it that for instance the man who set up the Youth System at Ajax has an influence. He was British.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
Well, Ireland is generally so small and insignificant, there's not much to sneer about I suppose. Though it's admirable u guys are almost world champions at fucking up an economy. Perhaps it is because ur race of pig farming potatoe growers knows only 2 things and 2 things correctly. Anyway, enough compliments, dependence doesn't stricly mean overuse. Nor did we "overuse" Brit football know-how. I think we, at least, realised early on enough how flawed it's philosophy was and is.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 Your best post yet Danny boy. Keep it coming.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@thetoon99 Mate what do you think has caused the decline in technical standard among the Dutch? Their greatest club is of course an Anglo/Irish creation. Ajax's first manager was Irish. jack Kirwan. Incidentally an Evertonian. The godfather of Total Football was English. Vic Bermingham. A Spurs man and as you know Total Football is Spurs push and run under a different name. The Dutch learned fom us but now seem to be regressing. EG Barca have improved since clearing out the Orange deadwood.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule yea i think they have suffered dsdan of course still thinks there the best haha
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 Ajax were managed by Irish or British managers for decades up to the mid 60s. It was in effect a British creation. 40 years of British management in an inferior league produced Total Football - push and run by another name. Since then the Dutch have taken over from us and managed to turn that model of British football inventiveness into an inconsequential feeder club living in the past.. Is it any wonder Real and Barca cleared them out? Do United bother scouting Ajax nowadays?
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@dsdan83 now you put down scottish strikers you not heard of dennis law part of the trio at man utd the other two being best and charlton or were they all shit to, kluivert is no where near the class of a law and what a rudd van then he was a fox in the box but weight by your own logic he should be crap but naw hes dutch so hes the best striker of his era right, gerrard in center midfield only had one holding player beside him or xabi as a playmaker accept it google it box to box gerrard
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 read tigerarmyrule post in this video hes spot on not like youy that thinks every dutch player is god its a joke to even dare rate kluivert ahead of ronaldo, its also a joke to make out the best player to ever play for juventus was shit
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 mate you talk about " the finest strikers of all time" and include Kluivert. Now let's choose some uncontested mambers of the group....Pele, Puskas, Gerd Muller. Do you really rate kluivert with them? Mate no one rates Kluivert with them. He was a very fine player but Van Basten belongs in the group of "finest strikers" Kluivert does not. Are you honestly saying that Kluivert belongs in a strikers group with Van basten and Muller?
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
how difficult is it to grasp two simple words: ball & technique. or perhaps you merely know how to spell gerd muller and that is it. i'm sure it is. muller had 0.0 technique. he was a pure fox in the box. a standard volkswagen sedan. nothing fancy, does the job and nothing else. almost as terrible as michael owen or any given irish or scottish striker.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 i bet you are even so retard to think that rafa was/is a better manager than alex ferguson has ever been right just because hes not brittish and name me the 10 best players in the world in your biased opinion haha
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
no, i do believe saf is a better manager. eventhough he didn't win a single prize with man u in his first 4 seasons in charge, while rafa won the champions league first year at pool. dennis law wasn't bad, but again, he were active in an era when a given defender wouldn't even be suited to today's english 3rd division. and that says extremely much. i wouldn't place law in the top 10 greatest forwards of all-time. perhaps top 25. ruud is also a fox in the box but with a bit of skill.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 well rafa came to liverpool as a top 4 club ferguson took over a man utd side in the bottom 4 of the league so he had a harder task to do, dennis law was great i never said he ws in the top 10 strikers ever, so your saying bekenbeur would be shit today then, and law played part of his carrer when cryuff played and yea ruud had abit of skill but so did muller in his prime in his prime he was more than a fox in the box. why would it matter how defenders back then would do in todays game
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 if i'm theloon99 you must be desperate dan haha, also asee you can't get back on the gerrard point as you seen you were wrong that he is a box to box midfielder that when played in center midfield showed he was one, also a few weeks ago you said robson never did anything for england i said what have holland did since 1988 tell me that.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 quite why you take a personally offensive tone is beyond me but perhaps you are just an offensive person in which case I won't waste my time further in dealing with you. Goodbye.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
as an irish fan, it's highly unlikely you have anything meaningful or intriguing to announce when it comes to football. so it's sensible of you to realise you can't be part of this discussion. if only you would be able to contaminate theloon99 somehow, as i he makes equally precious little sense in everything he says.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 i make more sence than you after all you thought that because lampard and gerrard are center midfielders that that means there creative players haha, you also don't think brittian has had any skillful players and that gerrard was not a box to box player when he is, you fail to see two holding players were used only when gerrard was not in center midfield remember a strikers job is to score goals muller was better at that than kluivet while having more ablity to.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
u do ur name as loon sincerely proud. muller had no skill. no brilliant technique. no speed. wasn't great at linking up. he was just a killer. he got the ball in the box, and shot. frequently with success. as a dude from the land where footballers have always zero flair, it shoud be easy enough for you to grasp. alas, ur poor level of understanding is astounding. 4-2-3-1 includes of one central attacking mid, 2 wide players, and 2 anchoring mids. u englishmen r unbelievable.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 no speed muller had good pace in his prime loser, zero flair haha you are a loser england and scotland has had many players with flair you are the lone after all you are the dumb fuck that says bryan robson never brought it with england when he did, what has holland done since 1988 and stop getting away from my gerrard point your stupid to think rafa used to holding players when gerrard was in midfield.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
the only flair your compatriots have is to kick the ball forwards which is then proceeded by running as hastily after it as one can. i don't recall robson having made any significant major tournament in which england was present. you seem quite eager to defend him since you use faulty argumentation to illustrate any noteworthy non-achievements. holland has reached a world-cup final since 88 and 3 semi-finals in 1 wc and 2 euros. plz simply admit u don't even know who gerd muller is.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 again name me these brittish playerts from the past that were just kick and rush tom finney was not click in rush niether was best, niether was gazza bobby charlton was'nt either either was jim baxter,dennis law i could go on and to say kluivert is better than muller is pathetic, robson played many great games for england the fact holland did better means nothing interms of what he gave for england
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 Mate you are from Britain, the homeland of football so you might be able to correct me on this...I have not been able to find any nation which was so totally and utterly reliant on Britiah managerial talent for so many decades as were the Dutch. Do you know of any others? I mean surely 15 British managers for the national team is a record for any non UK Football Association.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@dsdan83 you should watch videos of muller in his prime on he was was less of a goal poacher than ruud van is who you praise.
and gerrard is a box to box midfielder fact i love how each time i own you you reply back but not about the gerrard thing i owned you on
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
as a dutchman, i have of course seen plenty of muller, lest i forget what trauma had laid upon us in 74. but the goal which he scored in that final illustrates perfectly what type of striker he was. he received the ball, didn't think, turned and instinctively shot. perhaps the goalkeeper should have been more aware of muller's predatory instincts, then again, i think even any of today's superior keepers wouldn't have saved such a devious but precise glory shot.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 whats your excuse for holland getting beat in the under 21's by scotland and the senior team by germany
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
i am not like u, i don't find excuses for an honourable defeat. though in the case of the u-21 side. one must be incredibely biased towards scots or be severely mentally depleted not to be able to recognise the dutch u-21 is far superior to scots and a regrettable lack of motivation and desire is what cost the dutch what shudda been a logical victory. germany outclassed our senior side. although it is worth mentioning we missed key players. nevertheless, our defending was abominable.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 of course holland are better than scotland at all levels, its just you made an excuse for hollands defeat to england at euro 96 so i was kinda joking thinking you would make an excuse for there defeats now, and well i never seen the match but you can't win then all and i heard scotland put up a good fight we got the win because of our effort.
and be sure to tell me which games i have made excuses for over a loss
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 you must feel sad that holland are not as great as they used to be there still great, but not as great all over the pitch they don't compre to there 80s or 70s sides, must also make you sad that the dutch league is so poor and that any good player leraves first chance he gets to go to countrys like england.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
I feel fairly desponded after a Dutch defeat. Irrespective of opponent. I don't feel sad about our current side. I am worried about our defence. Our defenders haven't the same abilities of world-class defenders. However, as I pointed out already, heart & desire can accomplish success. In that sense we do share a commonality with the skill-less Scots. When our defenders display courage and passion, we can shut out Germany in a next encounter. Or, at the least, prevent minimal damage.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 well thats the sign of the times in football history, in all grerat teams they have a decline in many ways as other teams rise as in spain now where as there was france before and brazil as top dogs then holland of course in the 80s and 70s ect
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 swings and cycles mate. Reynolds etc taught push and run to the Dutch. It became total Football, Cruyff taught Total Football to Barcelona. It became titi taka and now Spain dominate but i see signs of slight decay in Barca/Spain as Xavi begins to age and Iniesta is a bit injury prone. Time was when Hungary dominated. Who knows what will be next.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
Push & run isn't remotely similar to the complex & intricate system which is Total Football. An absurd & totally false statement from u tigerarmyfail, one which can be compared with e.g "Ireland is full of beautiful women". Actually, one of the elements belonging to Total Football is the phenomenon by which any type of attacker and any type of defender can switch roles at will. This certainly isn't part of Spain's style of play. Puyol can't score goals and Villa can't defend.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 Danny Boy Puyol scored tonight a few hours after you told me he couldn't score. Ouch !!
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
The kind of opportunistic reply I expected from a light-weight. However, it serves as a reminder of what kind I am dealing with, and perhaps only future explanations at 2nd grade level would be appropriate for loon and your understanding. Of course I was obviously stipulating Puyol isn't a natural goal-scorer and Villa isn't a natural defender. However, I'm sure Villa is capable of pulling off a Jaap Stam-like sliding tackle once every while.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 Is the opportunist reply you mention the one in which I cite a player scoring a few hours after you said he couldn't? Is that the one you mean?
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule to defend dan here to be fair i think when he meant about puyol scoring he meant on a regular basis rather than the odd goal a season.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 Good of you to defend him mate. He needs someone with a clue about the game to defend him so well done.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule well i play fair yea i have a debate with him, but if i think hes right on certain points or misunderstood in a point i will say. i would do the same with you to defend if you got misunderstood
thetoon99 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule btw mate dsdan he just taught me that in a 4-2-3-1 that the second striker gerrard in that formation under rafa he was not really playing behinde toress but in center midfierld, man i neveer knew this maybe bergkamp for all his years playing for holland and aresnal was really playing in center midfield haha we should thank dan for teaching us that a second striker is a center midfielder haha
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99 I think poor old Danny Boy is losing the plot completely. His inability to judge anything about British football fairly is so obvious that it is difficult for him to make sense. He's been done up like a kipper on this thread.
tigerarmyrule 2 months ago
@tigerarmyrule
You both type out a lot and you both essentially express virtually nothing sensible. British football isn't my strongest interest when it comes to football - is there a justifiable reason there should be for the pure football lover - but I know a fair bit. What is your name btw? you seem to call me Danny Boy at times, what do I call you? if you're another Paddy or rather I'll try not to laugh.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 that team set up came out wrong but in a 4-2-3-1 tactic gerrard is not playing in center midfield, hes playing in the same role in that formation as bergkamp did many times for holland behind another styriker these are facts, to say i'm informed is stupid as many a team sheet will show i'm right, in 4-2-3-1 there is only 2 cm not 3 so if rafa choose to line them up as a dm style role then thats ok, but the point is gerrard is not playing center midfield in it, he did but with xabi
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 maybe you should watch brittish football since your league is poor and a bredding ground for english clubs to take the best players in holland from haha, you need to learn tactics gerrard only ever played center midfield for liverpool in a 4-4-2 ,4-5-1 and 4-3-3 4-2-3-1 is not him in center midfield you stupid retard, what type of players are lampard and gerrard to you
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 i looked that up the real madrid games gerrard came on as a sub in the 1 nil win then in the 4 nil win he played up behind toress you dumb fuck shitty dutch country boy
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
It is quite astounding how ur relentless pursuit of your desire of wanting to turn your 100% fail into a 0.1% succeed. It's perfectly clear to many u have lost the plot entirely and you're merely spewing out diatribe for the sake of it being a rare and proper skill u do have. If Stevo were another striker, the system would be formulated as 4-2-2-2. But that is not the case. Gerrard is, and has always been, a midfielder. It's peculiar, I speak far better English than u an Englishman.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 he was not playing as a striker he was playing as a second striker in the 4-2-3-1 formation fool not center midfield, he also played many gams as as right winger for liverpool i am telling you facts that are online, he played behind toress not on the same level as him he played behind toress in the same role bergkamp did playing behind henry for years, its facts i'm telling you its all online and on rafa liverpool team sheets you spaz
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
I haven't argued he never operated as RW, when he did it was to compensate, it is beyond question his strongest position is as CM. Rafa certainly used 2 anchors, I've said is many a times, u are just so ignorant. Xabi isn't a deep-lying play maker. He is a link between defense & attack. He doesn't provide passes which lead to real goal-scoring opportunities. u know plainly nothing about how Football works. Instead, tell Paddy to come out of hiding. An Irishman should have more balls.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 again whats the hell does this have to do qwith what postion gerrard worked best in, in a 4-2-3-1 formation hes playing as a second strikwer that is fact i saw it with my own eyes and you can to if you look up rafa team sheets with that formation, and yea rafa used two anchors but not when gerrard played in center midfield like you said gerrard was either playing right wing or as a second striker when rafa played two dm, in 08/09 he played it most as a second striker
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 again dumass thats the point alnso as the link between the defence and attack he got the ball deeop and played great passes foward, he does not have to provide passes that lead to goals he gave passes that got th play to the final 3rd again its you it plainly knows nothing about football i am telling you facts you can look up
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 rafa did use two holding players alot but not once whernb gerrard was lioned up as 1 of two center midfielders fact.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 the point you have been arguing with me is you saying gerrard was not a box to box player as rafa, used two holding players when gerrard played center midfierld which is wrong, you never really watch english football just like i never watch dutch football so on the case of gerrard your wrong what i'm telling you can be found on google how he lined up in a 4-2-3-1 as look at him in center midfield he played with alonso the most so there only one holding player not two see
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
I do believe I watch Liverpool and the Premier League. But as an envious Scotsman, I can understand that you don't. Gerrard never partnered Xabi as an anchor, that's nonsense. In your 2nd to last diatribe you contradict yourself again my dear boy. There you clearly state Stevo did function as a CM. I'm glad you have finally caught on, though I'm fairly confident enough to proclaim any of the great apes has a quicker comprehension level than you. Xabi passed to Stevo is what I meant.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 again i said from the start that gerrard was a center midfielder but he could and did play a few other postions, and duh thats the point when played in center midfield gerrard never played as an anchor duh i never said he did play as an anchor, thats what i've said all long rafa nerver played two when gerrard played next to xabi or anyone in center midfield as gerrard ould get box to box as hes a center midfieldrr duh, and i watch the prem ever week dildo
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 glad to see you finally get i am scottish and not an english map have you been taking up map; reading weldone dan hope that goes well for you, again this debate about gerrard has been with me saying from the start that he did play in center midfield and his type is a box to box he will get up and down the park box to box, you pointed out he was not box to box as rafa played two holding players i pointed out fact he only did if gerrard was not in center midfield, so stop twisting things
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
It is easy to distinguish these nations. One is easy to conquer and easy to trounce 6-0, the other is not. Rafa played 2 anchors while Steve was CM. Given sites will illustrate this for you in black and white and in plain English. Alas, you have a severely selective way of comprehension and interpretation. It would not surprise me you will next argue Scotland in fact did qualify to the elimination round at a certain tournament. When those momentous losers really did not.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 again your wrong in thios 4-2-3-1 that you point out he played they anchors gerrard is not playing in the cm postion its fact, he played up behind toress in that tactic just like how van de vart does not play cm for spurs in there current formation he plays up behind adeboyor
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 i know scoptland are shit and even in our best years we failed to step it uop i'm not a biased cunt likwe you i would make my nation and players out to be better than everyone else.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
Just so you do fully understand and will always be aware of the fact which states that Johan Cruyff is the greatest there ever was and there ever will be. For when I say this I am not, in the remotest sense, behaving chauvinistic, for instead I make an utterly legitimate claim through the eyes of any thoroughbred football lover.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 i love cruyff as a player hes right up there, but whats he got to do with this gerrard thing also did you here about gary speed its a shame
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
This video is about the master Johan Cruyff. In this comment section only he should be the topic of conversation. Anything else is rather irrelevant.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 you are pathetic i'm done talking to you we were debating gerrard, i proved you wrong but i decided to praise cruyff since you brouight him up as he deserves, but when i brought up a lergend gary speed that died today you put him down that says you are the lowest kind of human being good bye
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
It ironic for you are done talking with me when everyone is done talking with you. You shall not demonize me for the sake of taking things out of context. A loss of anyone's life is to be mourned, but not in the comment section of a Johan Cruyff video. For it was also you who initiated to steer the conversation towards English players. But I feel obliged to correct you from yet another gross error on your part due to your deranged manner of interpreting basic fact. Spurs play 4-4-2.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 its kinda sad you can't juat admit i proved you wrong that in 4-2-3-1 where rafa played two hol;ding players gerrard was not one of them, he pl;ayed behind toress in it in the role van der vart plays for spurs, when i told you that you changed the subject that says alot about you.
thetoon99 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dsdan83 You are a guy who sprays man-jizz all over the room whenever you open your cock-gobbling mouth. Bring your best stuff because I'm going to FedEX you back to your family in tiny pieces, mate.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 gerrard by trade is a center midfielder but hes a player that can play a few diffrent postions, when he played in center misfield rafa never used to holding players as gerrard was 1 of his 2 cm, in a 4-2-3-1 gerrard played behind toress as a second striker not an out and out striker look this up on google
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
You're quite something loon. Are you in possession of any other pearls of wisdom, the kind of wisdom which displays the insight a child at the age of reason would otherwise also fathom.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83
Btw, I was always right on Gerrard, much thanks for pointing that out constantly. Gerrard indeed played as central midfielder with 2 anchoring midfielders behind and to the side of him, under Rafa's 4-2-3-1 system. Gerrard isn't an outstanding tackler nor retriever of the ball. So it's illogical to assume he could be a box to box type.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 gerrrard when played as a ccenter midfielder never played with two anchoring players in a 4-2-3-1 he played up behind torress not in center midfield haha and do you even know what box to box means it means a player with great energy that gets from box to box.
and yea thats under rafa 4-2-3-1 where gerrard never played center midfield dumbass he played much higher up the pitch
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 in a 4-2-3-1 the only center midfielders in the center midfield role are the two holding players gerrard in that was either playuing right wing or behind toress when gerrard lined up as 1 of 2 center midfielders he played it with xabi the most as gerrard can get box to box so they never needed to holding players with him as a center midfielderr when PLayed there
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
You make as precious little sense as from the very first sentence you had written in reply to a comment from me. Anchors - Xabi&Masch&Lucas. Gerrard CM. Kuyt&Babel/Riera wings. Torres ST. Your are so uninformed loon, it's ridiculous.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 what rubbish send me links to this so your saying they lined up with 1 center midfielder no team ever does that, in that 4-2-3-1 the 2 bit is the two anchors that are playing in center midfield you dumbass, when gerrard played in center midfield he only played with 1 of they 3 players and xabio is not an anchor hes a deep lying playmaker.
google gerrard box to box midfielder
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 gerrard played on the right wing alot and as a second striker during rafa time in the 4-2-3-1 formation gerrard was not playing as a center midfielder so i proved you wrong dumbass when plasyed in center midfield rafa never played to holding players that is fact, in a 4-2-3-1 gerrard is playing behind torress supporting him, another name for this formation is 4-2-2-1-1, show me how you would set this 4-2-3-1 up with gerrard in the team the way rafa in your mind did
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 you say i'm uninformned what i'm telling you is facts in a 4-2-3-1 gherrard is not playing as a center midfield gioogle to see a team sheet of rafa using that for proof, if he was playing center midfield in it it would be a 4-3-2-1 you thick cunt go away and learn football i'm telling you facts you can find on google, with liverpool team sheets from rafas time.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
They are not the facts my uninformed boy Gram. For example, against Real Madrid in the CL, LP played 4-2-3-1 with Stevo as CM. You further illustrate you're so uninformed. In EURO 96, in our opening match against some low flying team, Bergy started as CM with Ronald de Boer as central striker in a 4-3-3 formation. In fact, Bergy played on many a ocassion as CM in his early Ajax days.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 ok but bergkamp was not playing center midfield when lined up behind a striker dumass like you tried to say gerrard was, again use google you will see what i say to be true and ok if thats true was gerrard one of the 2 in the two part.
as in rafa's 4-2-3-1 this is a team he would sometimes field mascherano alonso
kuyt babel gerrard toress
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 its also so funny that i owned you on my gerrard point what was that you were saying about rafa playing two holding players when gerrard played center midfield haha
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 yea 4-2-3-1 does include that loser but in that role as the attacking midfielder gerrard is not lining up as a box to box player, dumb fuck as hes not playing in center midfield haha your point was that gerrard was not a box to box midfielder as rafa played 2 holding players when gerrard was in center midfield, as i already said the only time rafa played two holding players was when gerrard was not played as an out and out center midfielder and i was right
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 i'm still waiting for you about scholes again and how hes shit because certain players did a certain skill better, also i'm waiting for you to name me brittish players from the past that you say were kick and rush with no skill how would you know what john charles was like if you never even seen a clip of him
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 also one last thing man utd job is to win not to meet what you want, also your educated good for you bet your parents paid for you to go to a top school weldone but you learned fuck all, also google gerarrd box to box midfielder and haha what do you see, but wait no no the exsperts are wrong right as your right haha and yes my interpretation of attacking football is flwed why because its not the same opinion as yours right.
thetoon99 2 months ago
@thetoon99
1st thing, stop pm'ing me gram, i ain't gay like u. if u observed r9 and kluivert properly, u would've seen kluivert was the more skillful player. he had incredible close control, the ball was always glued to his foot, he could outplay defender on pure skill, whereas r9 did it more on speed, and the dutch master was a tremendous header. in know heading isn't everything, but fact is r9 was a poor header of the ball. i get the impression ur a pom whose a man u fan. right.
dsdan83 2 months ago
@dsdan83 whats your next poor reply that what kuyt is better than ronaldo to, and i'm a newcastle and rangers fan you know rangers with the 54 league titles
thetoon99 2 months ago
@dsdan83 then why did xavi himself say scholes was better and zidane say scholes was the best he had ever played against?
nick1177 3 months ago
@nick1177 mate dsdan knows shit about football he thinks man utd is a shit sizec club, he thinks that all brittish players in history have lacked skill,great passing,dribbling vison and other skills and were just hard qworkers its kinda sad really to paint a guy like best ect as just another dirk kuyt when there clips that prove that wrong.
thetoon99 3 months ago
@nick1177
ah, a newbie, opening his irrepressible little mouth. like a dog that can't control it's tail. footballing colleagues regularly dish such compliment out to one another like u mentioned above for the sake of being social & nice. maradona once stated messi, and at time messi was still only 22 i believe, is already a better player than he was. any thoroughbred football enthusiast knows maradona is still one of the top 3 greatest players of all-time, regardless of he may've said himself.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 right lets ignore that every single last player in the world has basically said that about scholes including every coach who has ever gone against man utd. but you know i'm sure every last one was just a basic compliment.
nick1177 3 months ago
@nick1177
we all know you're merely saying this for the sake of a fruitless attempt to contain yourself in this debate. even a layman understands you'll never be able to prove what you just stated and a remark such as "basically every single player in the world.." is just pathetic in itself.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 you dumb also ellipsis require three ...'s
nick1177 3 months ago
@nick1177
first learn how to write a proper sentence, after that i might consider taking you seriously.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 why compare him to diffrent players kaka was a dribbler and iniesta is to, scholes was more in the mould of xavi but could score many more goals outside the box as you agreed with me he could, in his last 5 years he sat deeper for utd bering there playmaker watch videos of him on here from the last few years you will see his touch and vision.
also do you need a map of brittian to see that i'm scottish not english or would you like if i called you belgium
thetoon99 3 months ago
@thetoon99
i actually meant xavi not iniesta. but it's clear iniesta, at only 27, is already a far better player than scholes ever was.
dsdan83 3 months ago
@dsdan83 you do know man utd wanted Sneijder to replace scholes so they got like for like as players
be honest scholes is diffrent from how you view brttish players as
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 and outside it with his great shooting, you are a real retard you proved to me you know shiot about football with many of your points yea in the last 20 to 30 years there has been every little true great brittish players to live up to the greats of holland ect.
but in the 50s and 60s and a few in the 70s,80s there was great brittish players with skills that you admire in the great dutch players, i will name the names for you and you can watch clips of them ok
thetoon99 3 months ago
@dsdan83 also you do know like mvb and gullit brittian has had players like them that had great power and skill.
and remind me who was it that pele said taught people how football should be played with great skill, thats righht it was stanley matthews and english man
thetoon99 3 months ago