US Chamber of Commerce backing anti-union Senators

[davehutchinson67]

You know..it's really simple. Why would the Chamber SPEND SOOOOO much money if nothing was at stake? For those who would blast US Unions should take a look at other 1st world nations where Unions are MUCH MUCH more powerful and the working class actually has some say. I mean..isn't it obvious already...the multi nationals de facto control the country already...ANYTHING done to counter that power is welcome in my book. oh and btw..when was the last time anyone saw a mfg job created?

[gaboon1]

The US Chamber is nothing more than an insurance industry lobby group. They want to strip our constitutional rights to a trial by jury. They hate America and the American justice system. All they care about is pure greed.

[anarksee]

Welcome to the KKKorporate States of America!!! . . .(A)

[traciroxx85]

UNION NOW!

[newbutton7]

FUCK THE UNIONS !

[charr05]

I go to EconomyInCrisis . org all the time and see stuff like this all the time. The elites and destroying this country and the chamber of commerce is making things worse for everyone

[lumpagogo]

U.S. Chamber of Commerce = a gas chamber.

[gn0m1k]

I don't see the problem here. You come into my house, you play by my rules. Otherwise, go somewhere else.

Unions artificially raise the wages for workers where there may not be a demand for that price because of the output value and supply of employees.

Factory jobs = American jobs. LOL. American jobs are phony service jobs and a consumption economy.

Spend more money in this economy? We need to save during recessions not borrow and spend and bathe in high inflation.

[lumpagogo]

The U.S. Chamber is a front for our Global Corporatists whose goal, with a few exceptions, is to drive every American mfg job to Mexico, India or China.

Westinghouse, Wal Mart, thousands of others are not American companies; they are China-nationals. Their hatred of fellow Homo Sapiens is legion--just listen to Limbaugh or Beck.

[bigfilmhat]

Dedhedted71- everything you have said is perfectly logical. Stratvic is either thick-headed & illogically or he my work for the big union busters. Big union busters are a $5 billion dollar a year business that has hijacked union elections. This idea the unions want to do away with the secret ballot is absurd. The Jackson-Lewis's and Seyfarth Shaw's have already done away with secret ballots through indimidation and strong-armed tactics. Just search- secret ballot name only and watch the video.

[Dedhedted71]

Everyone loved Reagan & his trickledown economical theory. Well free trade killed that theory. It might work in a country that does'nt outsource jobs. The $ is contained within the US. But in this day & age of NAFTA & other bad agreements the $ goes into the pockets of the wealthy who in turn create more jobs in India & Bangladesh! Meanwhile the American worker gets the shaft. But the globalists make a fortune off of horrible labor conditions overseas without doing a thing for their own country.

[stratvic]

Trickle down theory scoffers are turncoats when it comes to the bail out. Why is it that those who deny that taking money from the productive is a recipe for disaster when times turn bad want to give money to the failed corporations and banks in the expectation that the benefits will "trickle down". We are a country of trickle down theorists now. All be it through the unproductive class of corporations.

[Dedhedted71]

We would have never needed that bullshit, corrupt bailout if we were still a nation that produces. We let the greedy corperate scumbags have their anti-union free trade agreements. Now we just consume. There is no wealth being generated in America anymore. You have the bankers, globalists, & greedy corperations to thank for that. Its time for the American people to take back their authority & return to ourselves what has always been our birthright.

[stratvic]

Or the unions who drove the jobs overseas. Add to that the immigration law that ensured that jobs had to move to labor rather than labor moving to jobs.

[Dedhedted71]

Thats my point! They love cheap labor. They do not love their country. They want illegal immigration for cheap labor. They want free trade for cheap labor. All this to increase their bottom line. They are not interested in improving the quality of life for anyone other that themselves. Unions did not support free trade. It was big business screwing the little guy. Ask 1 of Bob Murray's Utah miners how it is without the protection of a union! Oh thats right, they're dead & the mine is shut down.

[stratvic]

Irrational nationalistic logic. Consumers demand the best value for their money, businesses compete to provide that service. In doing so they each improve the lives of all the people that voluntarily cooperate and coordinate together achieving what each want, each gaining from trade. Your only issue is that not all those that are participating are exclusively of your nation/ingroup/race/language/g­eography or whatever irrational arbitrary delineation you use to exclude people.

[Dedhedted71]

Hey stratvic! Outsourcing of American jobs to avoid union regulations fairly set up by the workers is a result of anti-union legislation like NAFTA, & CAFTA. These corperate friendly trade agreements is what is hurting America & the American worker. Not the unions. Get rid of these terrible agreements & the middle class will rise up strong once again. Globalism only benefits the globalists. It make slaves of the rest of us.

[bigfilmhat]

Stratvic I was both management and a unionized worker at different points with UPS, I can tell you the union is responsible for getting it's workers a living wage something the company would never volunteer. The non-union fed-ex drivers (feeder drivers, not neighborhood package drivers) saved $65 a month in union dues's and made a starting wage of $18 instead of $23 an hour, care to do the math there?

[stratvic]

Just be thankful that UPS jobs are not up for outsourcing to competitively priced labor off shore due to it's service nature. In the mean time spare a thought for the 000's that will loose their jobs at the hands of labor unions in GM, Ford, and Boeing.

The fact that some people were successful at blackmail against UPS verses others who choose not to employ blackmail and coercion is not something to be proud of.

[Dedhedted71]

Action- reaction! Unions are a reaction to poor woking conditions, that the careless, & sometimes abussive employer creates. Conditions that no worker should have to endure. This is part of what makes America great. The people run the show. The unions are just the vehicle in witch our goals are reached. You dont send in a tadpole to negotiate with sharks. You keep spewing the same empty argument of blackmail & coercion. This is simply not true. False propaganda does'nt make for a good argument.

[stratvic]

The tadpole shark metaphor does not stand up because employers do not operate like sharks they need to attract and keep employees happy and productive to avoid losing workers and business to their competition. In return employees must contribute in excess of their cost to the organization to keep the organization sustainable. Unions prevent this symbiotic relationship and thereby the sustainability of the organization who will fall prey to consumer choice who will choose their competition.

[Dedhedted71]

Everything I have said is perfectly logical. Now your just starting to beat your head against a wall. My metaphor was perfect. You just cant admitt your wrong. "Employers dont operate like sharks". What a fantasy! Are you really that nieve? You do not understand the world of American labor. Face it dude. You lost this debate. I'm done. This has become an exercise in futility.

[stratvic]

Grand claims ...but not evidence or even argumentation i.e. Logical, perfect, wrong, don't, fantasy, (adhominum), lost, followed by I give up. Not a smidgen of logic, argumentation, or evidence in sight...thanks for playing.

[bigfilmhat]

Union Busters are like a mafia, they have $4 billion dollars to spend on union busting and they aren't afraid to committ (I can spell) any crimes they can in order to scare workers. I've come to learn more and more about the union busting industry. Just search "union avoidance" or "union busters". Read "Union avoidance intusdry in the united states" by John Logan or "confessions of a Union Buster" by Martin Jay Levitt.

[stratvic]

Its a mafia war, with the mafia being the union. Who would not want to fight against a mob of thugs using coercion over voluntary association.

[Dedhedted71]

It is still voluntary! You act like the union will break your legs if you dont sign their card. Get real dude. Your buying into all the anti-union propaganda. Like I said below, its not the union that a worker has to fear, its his bosses. They are the ones who use intimadation & threats to thwart the effort. They are the ones who can break a worker by depriving him of his living. If someone does'nt want a union then they dont have to sign anything. Noone will hurt them. Mafia my ass. Thats bull.

[stratvic]

The employment relationship like any trade is built on voluntarism. Unions destroy that voluntarism by introducing coercion and blackmail, not only towards the workers as you rightly point out, but also to the employer. Unions not only bite the hand that feeds them, they hold a knife to the throat as they gnaw on the bones. Unions are organizations of parasites.

[Dedhedted71]

Organizing a union is completely democratic. The workers must have enough signed cards to even get to vote. Then a fair election is held. If a company goes union, the chances are good that there was a need for it. Your comment about coercion & blackmail is simply not true. I have been through it. Something tells me that you have not. Cut throat, greedy companies are the parasites. Not organized workers. Sorry but your just wrong.

[stratvic]

I have severe reservations about whether installation of vote counting does anything to improve in any way the morality of the activities of unions. Democracy does not mean voluntary, it means majority rules and might makes rights...hence my dubious view of your comment. If a company is "Cut throat" or "greedy" don't work for them, voluntarily choose to work for someone else or yourself/ves. Continuing to work for them encourages them.

I was coerced into joining a union once.

[Dedhedted71]

"Just go work for someone else" Yea, thats what the bosses say after you have worked there for years. You see, people have the right to go somewhere else to work, but they also have the right to stay where they are & get treated fairly. When people start saying that crap then you know the standard of everyones living is on its way down. Ultimately unions protect & serve the workers. Ask any UPS driver. That company has not suffered under a union. On the other hand, it has flourished.

[stratvic]

"they also have the right to stay where they are & get treated fairly"

Under what basis do you invoke this "right" to stay?

What is your definition of fair? I prefer the word just. Which to me implies in the context of any agreement that both parties interact voluntarily without fraud, force, coercion, or threats. You seem to prefer to look at just one side of the interaction and I wonder what in that context it is to be treated fairly or how fair could be determined?

[Dedhedted71]

As I said, if a company goes union it probly needed one because the workers were getting the short end of the stick in some way. Not just 1 or 2 people, but most, if not all of them. I envoke my right to organize under the legal laws of this country! Duhhh! Thats why we have the right to organize. Your view is somewhat twisted in that you see a union as a currupt organization of crooked lawyers & thugs. Thats not a union. A union is the workers. Regular working people, not gangsters.

[stratvic]

My issue is not with unions composition or their democracy or lack of it but with their mission... which is to break down the voluntary nature of the employment relationship through the use of force, coercion, and blackmail at the expense of the public, the health of the employer, the economy, and other workers not of that union.

[stratvic]

"they also have the right to stay where they are & get treated fairly"

Under what basis do you invoke this "right" to stay?

What is your definition of fair in this context?

[Dedhedted71]

I already answered you. America had this argument long ago. The people won the RIGHT to organize unions. We have the RIGHT to stay at a job we love & earn a just wage & safe working conditions. If a company wants to treat workers badly then the workers should & can organize. Thats our legal RIGHT in this country, like it or not. It does'nt matter what you personally think. Thats the way it is! Fair treatment will be ironed out at a negotiation table. Most Fed X drivers wish they were union.

[stratvic]

Where do "rights" come from?

I hope you don't mean to respond from the law, or even worse from democracy/the mob.

[bigfilmhat]

You don't know what the hell your talking about, if you aren't sure what a union is then learn before you go opening your yap.

[stratvic]

Well that is a non-answer to valid questions. If you cannot defend your positions perhaps you should consider revisiting your premises and allow for the possibility that after a thorough investigation it may be necessary to give up those positions as false.

[1trip711]

Why not?

[ProsecuteCheneyEtAl]

"US Chamber of Commerce backing anti-union Senators"

Duh.

The Chamber of Commerce has been nothing but a far-right pressure group like the Heritage Foundation for a long time now.

Collecctive bargaining rights are necessary to for the survival of democracy. Business is organized, the government is organized, the army is organized.

Organize or be powerless. That's the way it is.

[teemuruskeepaa]

Adam Smith wrote in 18th century that any intervention or contract inhibits the free market and it's production of general wealth and security. There should be no classes in absolutely free market. But the bankers have corrupted the free market for their own benefit and in theory that's why workers need to limit free market.

[AldenMarquette]

This is incredible. Thank you REAL news. I will support you.

[blackiron60]

It's criminal that these anti-union lobbyists can still use the same McCarthy style tactics after all these years and get away with it.

[stratvic]

Its funny to hear unions complaining of intimidation. That is the union mode of operation. Unions rely on imposing non-voluntary relationships on the employer through threats and intimidation. If you don't like your place of work or your compensation ...leave!

Those middle class jobs are now chinese jobs because of the unions. The tranfer of those jobs was only delayed through government trade restrictions.  Now the effect is clear, workers are paid too much to be globally competitive.

[atruevoice]

Or the other workers around the world lack rights and get paid little....

[stratvic]

They have the right to determine who they work for and whether or not to accept an offer of employment and conditions. That is the only right you need, the right to resign and seek other employment. You do not need the (immoral) "right" to force or blackmail others to get what you want.

[KentAllard]

ah yes the right to sell oneself into slavery

[stratvic]

Slavery requires coercion....no coercion, no slavery. Nature is not a slave master...just reality.

[KentAllard]

work for us or die

nope no coercion there

[stratvic]

Work for us...if you want, or anyone else, or yourself, or live in nature. No coercion there indeed.

[KentAllard]

WAGE SLAVERY

[stratvic]

Slavery can't be voluntary. To choose an employer, occupation, accept an agreement, voluntarily turn up, accept payment, and to choose not search for alternative employment is the exact opposite of slavery. If you make all those choices and consider yourself a slave you don't understand the nature of slavery.  To say employment is anything like slavery is to diminish the plight of those subjected to actual coercive violent slavery.

[knezesnake]

Oh yes intimidation of those poor employers in there yachts and private jets.

[rohaynes1]

you obviously know very little about unions.

The right to a union was paid for in blood. Working class blood.

[lordblazer]

in the 1980s they sent lots of propaganda out against unions. The fact that these idiots still think unions hold that much power is ridiculious. Unions are very fucking weak and almost have no voice in the political process. Hell doesn't even have a voice in the workplace.

[Dedhedted71]

Thats not true. Ask a UPS driver if his union is useless. Alot of unions are weak but thats changing rapidly. The teamsters & Unite are very strong unions. Stronger now that they dropped out of the AFL-CIO.

[KentAllard]

when discussing unions in America, not a good idea to mention the teamsters as a positive example. Mob connections and all that

[Plutonwolf]

And their ill considered foolish self prostitution when they endorsed Ronny "Voo Doo economics" Reagan. Truly not a good model for anything.

[Dedhedted71]

Get outa here! The Teamsters are the largest & most powerfull union in the country. Bad elements exist in any large organization, business, or government. Thats life. There is way more good the Teamsters do for people than bad thats for sure.

[KentAllard]

its their past history you see: mob using their pension fund as a bank, mob using them as a means of extortion.

[Dedhedted71]

Uhhhh...That was never proven. Kapisch?

[stratvic]

That's because unions advocate force as their means. Force is always paid for in blood.

The peaceful alternative is to resign and work for someone else.

[lordblazer]

yea I mean asking for a liveable wage as prices rise in the country you live in is just outrageous man. ITs their fault they went to a country that allows for lower wages and worse conditions.

[MeaningCorrupted1]

what the hell are you talking about? the government wants no trade restrictions! "workers are paid too much", what fucking planet are you from?

[stratvic]

"the government wants no trade restrictions!"

Whats with all the agriculture subsidies, tarrifs, quotas, trade agreements and the like then? That is not free trade it is managed trade, managed by those with political connections.

[stratvic]

Unions were partially responsible for pushing the economy into recession in the 1930's.  Lets hope they don't run the economy further into the dirt this time.

[merfwriter]

so if the econmy collapses, we don't have any jobs and no money, people panic and want to rebuild the econmy. The presidents "says" he's going to help and he's going to creat jobs for the people. He does so, there for we're draged into slavery by the government. We over work with very little pay. If the people don't like their jobs this bill says that they can't for unions to pretect us. So this is how they are going to control us? I don't know, I'm just try to see how this all fits into the NWO

[kwestyunz]

Sounds real fishy...

[calvinjones]

unions are sooo important and badly needed in the US labour force.

[jomigirock]

@calvinjones if you want to be treated like a dog and get handouts. Humans do not need to rely on others if they can provide for themselves.

[prisha91755]

Workers have lost their power. They WILL rise up.

[Etimos]

You know, these guys could fight against the anti-union folks by calling them communists and such. In communist Russia and China, unions were disallowed. The government was their union.

[patient0Studios]

Thats because they werent communists. They were stalinists. And in Marx would call them Bonapartists.

[PersonalJesus348]

Unions are so useless in America. What used to be our strength...

[calvinjones]

Unions need more legal rights...something i hope this bill will provide. They also need support and membership. The aren't useless they have just been cowed down by powerful corporate lobbies.

[AcePilot101]

The Unions are run by over-paid bureaucrats with Mafia contacts.

[Plutonwolf]

And this is news because.......?

Unions have become the "Commie threat" since Reagan demonstrated how to manipulate the dialog. And, the deep south still has a strong "Norma Rae" mentality towards Unions, hell, even Unionised workers down there have that attitude. It always amazes me to see how easy it is to convince fools to act against their own best interests.

[KentAllard]

"Norma Rae"?

[Plutonwolf]

It was a movie. It concerned a union rep from NYC organizing a union at a textile mill in the deep south. Managements tactics were reprehensible, yet relatable to real life and maybe even milder than actual actions in some of the worst cases of worker intimidation.

One very vile tactic was to con the "good ole boys" that "y'all gonna be havin a negra fer a boss". Rent it and watch it.

BTW, there is no more textile industry in the U S, it's all done in the third world now for pennies.

[Dedhedted71]

They try to make it look like the workers are being stripped of a right to privacy when in fact they are recieving more. The worker has nothing to fear from the union one way or another. Its his bosses he has to worry about. They are the ones who can take his living away from him. I've been through this! The bosses find out you are organizing & you & any other supporters are immediatly targeted. I organized a union in Fredrick, Md. at DHL. We won! But they dumped the contractor & we got screwed.

[TainaAtheist1]

Corporate America includes Walmart, which primarily employs women in low wage jobs is against unionization.

Support the right of women to unionize. Boycott Walmart.

.

[hajqbvii]

Walmart workers in Germany are unionized because their Gov't backs their Unions...that's something our Republicans frowns on!

[TainaAtheist1]

I so much agree with you about American Republicans frowning on unions. IMO it smacks of a lack of humanity. Americans never seemed to learn from the U.S. Depression of the 1930's that people are more important than business.

Now we are possibly in the throws of another Great Depression. Maybe we'll learn it this time.

[FRTothus]

The owners are well-funded and well-organized. They insist that the workers shall not have the benefits of that same organization. It is the workers that create the wealth, not the owners, and in a truly democratic nation, the workers would have the right to organize for collective gains. What does that tell you about democracy in Amerika? It tells me the US is a fascist state, masquerading as something else entirely.

[TVParkdale]

Right. Billions of dollars to corrupt banks and Wall street and the whiners don't want the right to unionize for the workers who make 1/300th of the CEO's wages.

Greed. Sheer unmitigated greed.

The current union system in Canada means that there's no privacy when workers try to organize.

The hurdles are huge--at least here in Canada.

[KentAllard]

and $711 billion for the military

[Realizalize]

though i couldn`t figure out much.

we win.

[dogstar7]

The Union Makes Me Free!