Ground Zero Dialogue Promo - PBS Films on Islam and Muslims

[xVenZz]

9/11 was an inside job the illuminate did it and here's proof:

1. search for the music industry exposed and watch part 7 cuz its about the 9/11 attacks and if u wanna learn about how the illuminati rule the media and america watch the other parts

and please thumb me up so people can understand

[MuslimahByChoice]

@LetsAllLuv well said. i couldn't agree more!

[hansvillehoodlum]

give peace a chance, become an atheist. we think both sides are crazy

[mackr1d3r]

the guy talks about the hard data? the data says that over 70% of the country opposes the mosque. muslims ask y not but i think every1 shuld be asking y so. why? wat is the purpose of putting the mosque right in that spot? not even 10 blocks in any direction. these muslims represent everything the say they stand against: intolernce and insensitivity.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@mackr1d3r - Just to expand on what you said... Christian Churches are NOT allowed in Muslim countries. Bibles are NOT allowed in Muslim countries. The penalties range from confiscation to beheading (yeah, that's in 2010!). There is a DEFINITE double-standard on the beloved issue of "tolerance".

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep I have seen this brought up on many related videos. One difference is WE ARE AMERICA! Our yes OUR country has and never will be that way. Do these words mean anything to you? " We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Well, they mean a lot to me. As they did to my father who fought in WWI and the Korean wars.

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep cont... and they mean the same for my husband who is also Muslm of course and is currently stationed in Iraq with the US Army and has been there for over a year! Do you think he should have different rights as his fellow brothers in war? Even though they are all putting their lives on the line for OUR country? Such a double standard I think...

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice - Thx to your husband for serving! (I have family who've served too)

I'm confused: are you saying that Muslim countries are intolerant, but in the US we are tolerant? Yes, I agree. I've agreed below that they have a LEGAL right to build the mosque. But it's a "bridge builder" & they're not making bridges being insensitive.

Where did I claim that you or your husband should have different rights?

SHARIA Law dictates different rights superseding host countries laws.

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep Thanks to your family too.

I was not saying anything about tolerance. I was clearly stating that our country and the countries you speak of don't even compare! They do not even fall into the same catagory! And as for Sharia law...Come on, you seem to be a very smart man. Do you really think that would EVER happen here? Do you know how many Muslims disagree with those laws? I could pull up things in the Bible saying many things close to sharia law. Do we live by those rules here?

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep of course we don't! If our country wanted to live by the Bible they would just pick and choose what parts they want to follow anyway! This is not even debatable.

As for my husband, why can't he pray that close to ground zero? He can serve our country. Put his life on the line 24/7 for our freedom and rights but he has to be put a few blocks back to pray because he don't want to hurt anyone's feelings? Again, it's a double standard and it's wrong.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

>Re: live by the Bible / pick & choose

I know MANY Christians who live by the Bible w/o "picking & choosing"

>countries don't even compare!

Why not?

>Re: few blocks back to pray

While no one objects to Japanese cultural ctrs, the idea of one @ Pearl Harbor would be offensive.

Pope John Paul II asked nuns to leave a convent @ Auschwitz. He wasn't devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the dead. He respected the sacred place of those who died there.

cont...

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep thats great! you personally know Christian women who cover their head when they pray? You know Christian's who pray with their forehead to the ground? That is what many if not all prophets in the new testament did! I think thats awesome!

As for the Japanese and Pearl Harbor you are right and i never once said I agree with the place the center/mosque is being built. I've said it many times. If we want to prove we are peaceful moving would be a great start.....cont..

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice -

No, I don't know anyone who covers their head (except for the Amish perhaps), but prostrating yourself while praying does vary wildly within Christianity: Catholics who kneel, kneeling at a bedside, fully prostrating yourself to the ground...

Where are head-coverings commanded in the New Testament of the Bible?

Where is it commanded in the New Testament Bible of bodily posture of how to pray?

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep It is not commanded to pray with your forehead on the ground in the Holy Bible but you will find examples of every prophet and of Jesus (pbuh) doing it. As for the head covering 1 Corinthians 11:5-6 i will post for you.. cont.

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep Corinthians 11:5-6 5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved. 6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

Paul planted a church in Corinth. The ppl were new & from many cultures. Paul did not stay in Corinth.

1 Corinthians is a letter from Paul TO the CHURCH OF CORINTH who were experiencing growing pains. In his letter, Paul addresses issues such as: divisions in the church, immorality, lawsuits b/w believers, marriage, food to idols..

In "ch 11", Paul discusses worship in the context of THEIR current dress & customs.

So, is 1 Cor 1:11 is irrelevant or discard able?

more

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

No. The Bible states "ALL Scripture is God-breathed & is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting & training in righteousness" 2 Ti 3:16

v3 states the PRINCIPLE: "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, & the head of the woman is man, & the head of Christ is God."

Today, just as then, it is improper for a woman to dress as a man OR a man to dress as a woman.

more

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

Dressing incl appearance such as hair: v14-15 "Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering."

In today's Western society, a shaved woman & a long-haired man stand out of place. Even more so if they were to lead cooperate (not individual) worship as is the subject of these verses.

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep ok, i'm trying to follow you here...

are you saying the verse means to have long hair while praying? is the hair the covering they speak of? if that is what you're saying, then why does it state that if she is not covered she should be shaved like a man?

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice - The VERSE states just what it states: in the context of coorporate worship a woman should cover her head while praying.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice I'm sure it's painful & awkwd a FACTION of Muslims hit the WTC killing 3000 ppl. Bldg a Muslim ctr by Gnd Zero is NOT considered culturally sensitive by most Americans. Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf states the bldg's purpose is to *forge bonds to build community *improve relationships *build bridges Being insensitive & deaf does NOT build bridges or improve relationships. NO dble std: PICK what U want: *bld prayer ctr & offend people *OR "build bridges" & pray elsewhere more>

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

If you want a dble std, Imam Rauf gives one when asked about Terry Jones:

"we have freedom of speech, w/freedom comes responsibility... this is the un-Christian thing to do... I'd like to suggest that we all have to live by the highest faith traditions"

So, we need to behave responsibly & NOT OFFEND anyone by burning Qu'rans.

Does Imam Rauf has any responsibility to avoid OFFENDING anyone in the US by building a prayer space for Muslims adjacent to sacred ground?

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep Hey, I'm with you on everything you're saying here! I'm not saying that I agree with everything this Imam is doing or saying. As in Christianity, there are many preachers out there that have a different way of handling things. My point here is that it's personal to me knowing that my husband who is stationed in iraq does not get the same respect as others in his unit because of his religion. His unit is totally for the center. If it were a church would it be the same argument?

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

>my husband who is stationed in iraq does not get the same respect

>as others in his unit because of his religion. His unit is totally for the center.

So, if everyone in the unit is for the center, why doesn't your husband get the same respect as everyone else in the unit?

And even if people in his unit didn't think the center should be built at that location, how is that having any LESS respect for him?

And I don't understand the unit to church parallel question?

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep I was not very clear was it lol :) sorry for that. Sometimes trying to talk in the little character limited box makes me forget all grammar skills :)

when I said my husband was not shown the same respect I mean by so many Americans. I didn't mean by his unit. I was talking about people who just hate Islam. As for the church comment, you said you knew Christians who did not pic and choose. In the new testament you'll find that a woman should cover while praying or be shaved bald!

[NH4x4Jeep]

@MuslimahByChoice

LOL, the character limitation is driving me crazy too! But I find that I alws nd to shrtn what I wrt b/c of the char. lim. ;-)

Not to mention that written text is tone-deaf!

I think you see enough hatred in some of the other posts here. Most of them, thankfully, seem to be missing.

See other other post for reply to church

Nice chatting! :-D

[MuslimahByChoice]

@NH4x4Jeep I'm gonna have to take notes on the shrtng of char. :) thanks for the tip!

As for the tone-deaf text that could be a good thing :)

The hatred, of course I see it and never would I stoop to the level that many do to make my religion better. I believe we can coexist. I believe there is evil in every religion and it's up to each person to lead by example. I'm not ugly or disrespectful but must admit to being a little sarcastic at times (it's a suthern thang) yeah nice chatting! :)

[IMaDEM0N]

FUCK THESE PEOPLE!! KNOW WHAT, FUCK ISLAM & FUCK THEIR 2ND MOSQUE. I LOST A SIBLING IN 9-11 FUCK PEOPLE WHO ARE GONNA SELF RIGHTEOUSLY LASH OUT @ ME FOR SAYING THIS CUZ U THINK IT'S COOL TO BE A PUSSY & BLAME IT ON GEORGE BUSH LIKE HE FLEW THE PLANES INTO THE TOWERS, HE DIDN'T, SAND-NIGGERS DID, CUZ THEY ALL BLINDLY HATE USA, THEY ALREADY HAVE A MOSQUE CLOSE TO GROUND ZERO, 1 IS TOO MANY!!! FUCK ISLAM & FUCK ALLAH, YOUR 72 VIRGINS ARE GONNA BE DEAD NUNS THAT'LL BEAT U W/ A SWITCH FOR ETERNITY

[NH4x4Jeep]

@IMaDEM0N - I'm sorry for your loss.

[wayamat]

Why is islam given priority over freedom

[NH4x4Jeep]

@megatown - VERY Interesting!

Quran 9:111 "Surely, Allah has purchased of the believers their persons and their property in return for the Garden they shall have; they fight in the cause of Allah, and they slay and are slain - a promise that He has made incumbent on Himself in the Torah, and the Gospel, and the Qur'an. And who is more faithful to his promise than Allah? Rejoice, then, in your bargain which you have made with Him; and that it is which is the supreme triumph."

[Kaguamax]

1.- It's not a mosque, it's a cultural center with a little space for praying

2.- It's not located at ground zero, but near. But definetely NOT at ground zero!

3.- It was built years before 9/11, they just want to re-build it!

[NH4x4Jeep]

@Kaguamax - Then why is it such a problem to relocate it?

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

Because they've already payed for it, because they've already made plans for how to develop it, because it fills a need for that particular area, and because it's actually fairly difficult to find cheap real estate in downtown Manhattan that is simultaneously outside this new imaginary "buffer zone" of two blocks around Ground Zero.

Would three blocks be okay?

How about four?

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - The decision of WHERE to build the mosque has been extremely controversial since BEFORE any of those investments had been made. By logical reasoning, in the future you could say that "the building has ALREADY been built, so why argue about it?" having IGNORED your way through the controversy.

Cheap real estate? It's NOT like they wouldn't SELL the property for a handsome fee!

Buffer? How about PAST the radius of the nearest mosque?

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

Right, but your question was "Why is it such a problem to relocate?", and those are the reasons why.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - To your credit, you're the 1st person to directly answer the question. HOWEVER, your answer is circular reasoning. They can't move it because they've developed their plans (even though they could have planned for a different location from the beginning). Consider 6 mos from now. Let's add that they've started the foundation to your reasoning. Still circular.

It's just as the Imam said: they are moving fwd no matter HOW the public feels. There IS no dialog. It's monologue.

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

"There IS no dialog."

And that's just fine. There's usually never any dialogue when someone wants to build a church on property that they own.

But of course, you are wrong about there being no dialogue. When pressed about naming the house 'Cordoba house' the builders changed the name. When pressed about offending 9/11 victims, the builders decided to include a memorial. It seems that for you "No dialogue" means "They aren't doing what we tell them to do."

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - No dialog as to changing the location. THAT's the controversy!

I'm not sure who asked for a memorial for the 9/11 victims... There is going to be a HUGE memorial and museum at the WTC site (Wiki National September 11 Memorial & Museum at the World Trade Center) Having another memorial so close would simply be redundant.

Re: Building a church on property they own

Their mission is to "build bridges" and a memorial?

But, it's offensive to those it's intended for!

Not too logical

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

"However, your answer is circular reasoning."

No, it isn't. They started with a different one in mind. Now they've taken the trouble to switch to a new location. That doesn't mean that it won't be any trouble at all to switch again. Remember, you asked why they can't just pick up and switch. My point isn't that it's impossible: my point is that it takes time, effort, and money.

But more importantly, they want this specific location, to service this specific area. It's that simple.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - Changing names doesn't cost much!

Changing plans yes. It's been controversial from the start.

If I built a house, it's unfair to complain b/c I have the expense to tear it down when the building inspector finds I don't have a permit! I made the choice!

Trump offered 125% Should cover the plans!

"Now they've taken the trouble to switch to a new location."?

Only answers I've seen was "NO"

Yes, they have the right to build there, BUT be HONEST!

NO dialog, NO Bridge-building here!

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

"NO dialog, NO bridge-building."

But I just listed two points where the builders have specifically changed their plans in order to comply with public demand! What exactly have the protesters given in to? If the builders agree to change the name AND to include a memorial to 9/11 victims, how is this "NO dialog?"

I think it's because you'll say there's "NO dialog" unless they do EVERYTHING you want them to. Is this true?

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond -

When exactly did the builders agree to change the name?

WHO asked for a 9/11 memorial?

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - Google "Trump's buyout offer"

Elzanaty said he invested w/an intention of making a profit & was willing to sell some

Trump told Elzanaty he would buy his stake "for 25 percent more than whatever he paid."

>But HE REFUSED

>Re: Buffer:

Trump "said that as part of the deal, the backers of the mosque project would need to promise that any new mosque they constructed would be at least five blocks farther away from the World Trade Center site."

Ground Zero Dialog = ZERO!

[NH4x4Jeep]

@Kaguamax - If it's NOT a mosque, then why did Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf tell "CNN that the discourse surrounding the center has become so politicized that moving it could strengthen the ability of extremists abroad to recruit and wage attacks against Americans"?

I mean, WHY would relocating a "CULTURAL center" be SO inflammatory???

[NH4x4Jeep]

@Kaguamax

2) Not @ Ground Zero?

Considering that the landing gear from Flight 175 landed here, I'd say this site IS an integral part of the 9/11 attacks...

Wiki Park 51:

"When United Airlines Flight 175 struck the South Tower of the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001, part of the plane's landing gear and fuselage came out the north side of the tower and crashed through the roof of 45–47 Park Place, and through two of its floors."

3) Rebuild it? You mean Burlington Coat Factory?

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

Landing gear and other debris struck buildings for literally nearly a kilometer in all directions.

Since you think that these buildings should constitute part of Ground Zero, I'm surprised that you seem to have no problem with...

1.) The Ground Zero McDonalds

2.) The Ground Zero Topless Bar (is that any way to honor the dead?)

and of course...

3.) The Ground Zero Mosque (The one that is already there and in use! Remember?)

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - I wasn't aware that the McDonalds, the topless bar, and the existing mosque had been so severely damaged that the buildings had to be leveled to the ground and rebuilt. I wasn't aware that all of these properties had been SOLD so that a DIFFERENT and NEW structure could be built there!

Or were they?

[FiverBeyond]

@NH4x4Jeep

"Or were they?"

Of course they weren't, and neither was this Burrlington Coat Factory, where the mosque will be built. But remember what you said... if the building was damaged by the 9/11 attacks, then it's part of Ground Zero, right?

Of course that's not right.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@FiverBeyond - what other bldgs were damaged near the extent of BC Factory? Damage to the roof, 2 floors, the facade, & structural...

It was a lg debris field, but MOST was dust

"Records kept by the city’s Department of Buildings show anonymous complaints for illegal construction and blocked exits at the site. Inspectors tried to check but were unable to gain access"

"But worshipers are legally occupying the building ... once a week under temporary permits of assembly through December 2009"

[DeucePrez]

@FiverBeyond:

Hey....!

You forgot to mention the hallowed "Ground Zero peep show"!!

And the "ground zero mosque" would actually have to be in Japan where the U.S. dropped bombs, which makes a place "ground zero".

FACT.

[NH4x4Jeep]

The controversy is SO SIMPLE to resolve. The builders of the mosque should show their "TOLERANCE" and SENSITIVITY and build it somewhere else. No more "controversy".

[omarrr707]

@NH4x4Jeep there were many Muslim Americans that have been killed by the terrorist attack; they are not less of Americans than you are, they are also not less of muslims. Also, the plan is to make a gallery for tribute to the 9/11 victims and families in that Islamic community center.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@omarrr707 I never claimed that they were less American, did I?

I simply said that it would be more sensitive to EVERYONE to simply relocate it.

Creating controversy is not "bridge building".

[NH4x4Jeep]

@omarrr707 - So providing a gallery for tribute should negate the fact that it's an Islamic community center?

[NH4x4Jeep]

@omarrr707 - Not sure what it has to do w/ the discussion, but I wanted to acknowledge what you said re: multi-national

From Wikipedia:"The death toll of the attacks was 2,996, including the 19 hijackers. The overwhelming majority of casualties were civilians, including nationals of over 70 countries. In addition, there is at least one secondary death – one person was ruled by a medical examiner to have died from lung disease due to exposure to dust from the World Trade Center's collapse."

[smilingleila]

I am Muslim. People forget how many of OUR faith died that day who where working in the towers. Forgetting that shows their bias.

[NH4x4Jeep]

@smilingleila - Not sure what U say has to do w/Mosque.

I'm sure it's painful & awkward a FACTION of Muslims attacked the WTC.

But, therein is the debate.

From WIKI (Islamism):

"SOME Islamist groups call for.. attacks on.. non-combatants. These groups incl.. Hamas & Islamic Jihad.., Osama bin Laden & his al-Qaeda group.

Justification for attacks on Muslims often comes as takfir, an implicit death threat since under traditional Sharia law the punishment for apostasy in Islam is death."

SAD

[heavenshaffer]

I knew that muslims founght for the lives of 9/11 victims as well. Everyone should see this veido.