Your last sentence is surprising when considering that you called Suprema haec sacra magesterial. Suprema haec sacra explicitly says that the "desire does not to be explicit as in the case of catechumens". (The modernist version of the term "explicit" does not mean "expressed with words" but means as much as "existent", while "implicit" does not mean "fallowing from the explicit" but rather "not existent but existent".)
The concept of salvation without baptism is what lead to the great apostasy we are living in. It started "harmless" by the idea that a catechuman who was murdered can go to heaven. It went on to baptism of desire. It ended with "baptism for desire for all" by changing the meaning of implicit desire.
The great apostasy had to come. And the way it came is by not believing in the word of Christ in scripture and dogma. The great apostasy has come by the idea of salvation without baptism.
In order to become a Catholic one must be baptized. An unbaptized Catechumen is not a Catholic until he joins the Catholic Church through baptism.
Baptism of desire comes from the human mind and contradicts directly what God has revealed. While the Dogma always remained the same rejecting the idea that anyone could be saved without the waters of baptism and without the Catholic faith, the concepts for salvation of unpaptized or heretics have changed many times.
I agree, we need to hold conferences and address Rome and call them out on this apostasy. I agree MHFM is not joining arms. However, I think you are confusing love with emotion. I think if you could have seen Padre Pio and how he was called "grumpy" by many, you could see that Michael is a lot like that. He knows and believes that Heresy is the enemy of the Church. Heretics are people and do exist, and Diamond calls them out.
God's love and mercy IS His Sacraments and His Church. His commandment to go out and preach the gospel and to Baptize everyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is absolute. The Catholic Church defends Christs' absolute Truths. Does it seem impossible to Baptize everyone on the planet who need to be? Is that why you believe in BOD? I mean, what is your excuse? Christ's Mercy? Christ said, what is impossible for man is possible for the Father. Now, that takes FAITH to hear.
You say that "if a catechumen is in perfect charity(which comes through water baptism) and desires to be baptized and has only original sin without any mortal sin that Christ will save him without baptism since He is above Divine law" why is it so hard to believe that...instead of Christ going against or "outside" of His own laws that if a person of such good disposition that Christ might just ...allow him to get baptized, or were all of the miraculous death defying baptisms just for show?
No he is not. He is quoting Christ directly when Christ himself says "a man must be born again of water and the Holy Ghost. See, people like you are not very good at logic. He is not judging anyone, he is merely repeating what Christ has already said about judgement. Every person will be judged individually it is true, and neither I nor you will make that judgement, but Christ himself has already told us how he will rule on certain things. This is just the Catholic Church, like it or not.
@325nicaea Hon - go and find what the true nature of our God is. If you truly knew Him, you could never make such a statement. It almost borders on blasphemy. You need to speak of God's love and mercy for his children - not his loathing. With you around, Satan can lay back and take a nap. He couldn't do better!
THANK YOU Ken, for inserting a note of sanity here. I never knew these folk existed until a few days ago. I was watching one of their videos and did an audio double-take. I couldn't believe I was actually hearing what I was hearing! JPII the anti-Pope! As Rocky the Flying Squirrel would say "Hokey Smokes!" What I heard was Satan Himself - the Accuser of the brethren. So much mental illness in the Body of Christ. I'll keep them in my prayers. May God have mercy on them!
Hi Ken. You are still a bit naive about who Sanborn, Cekada and Dolan are. Many of us have known these men for years and have seen them destroy families by their greed and lust (i've mentioned the relationship that Cekada and Dolan have and what they haev allowed to happend to the children in their school (and have tried to do themselves). Do you think that perhaps you are underestimating the Masonic infiltration of the Church? Why WOULDN'T some wolves try to enter the trad movement as well?
@325nicaea can you please give an explanation as to why this teaching of baptism of desire was taught for centuries in catechist books, from the Council of Trent on till now, and no Pope, nor saint has ever protested this teaching or claimed it was heretical. And Pope st.Pius V condemned the heresy of Michael Bajus, who falsely stated that one can have sincere feelings of remorse, faith (and desire for baptism), without justification. 1 october 1567. Denzinger 1031 (or 1931).
@shetlandwool The reason why is because many people believed in Baptism of desire, but it is not a defined dogma of the Chruch. In fact most of the early Chruch fathers rejected baptism of desire. Christ is pretty clear about it in scripture and missionaries have been dieing for centuries trying to baptise people because it is absolutely necessary. Even Christ was baptised. It could be that no man who dies unbaptised is capable of feelings of true faith. The grace of faith comes from baptism.
2. The first of the modern antipopes was Leo XIII (his successors were also heretics).
3. This means that 1917 'Code of Canon Law' and it's support of BoD are false, unlawful and heretical.
Please visit my channel and watch the video "Masonic Infiltration and Dimond Capitulation" to see how the Dimonds hide the evidence that Pacelli was a Mason and auto-excommunicated for his support of and association with them.
@Kenbird1 As long as you admit that you are not interested in seeing the evidence for yourself, then your 1, 2, and 3 don't mean a hang of a lot, do they?
@davecyco Pope Pius XII and Pope Leo XIII were not antipopes. Are you a canon lawer? Your comments sound more like an advertisment to visit your channel.
@325nicaea The problem wit that statement is that u r sitting n the judgment seat of Christ, a vantage point u hav not & u r n opposition 2 the history, liturgy, & law of the Church that has set precedent citing several examples of Martyrdom w/o baptism, the elevation of the unbaptized 2 the altar, & exceptions n law 4 those n good faith who hav died w/o it. The infallible teachings r 2 b held n continuity with the mystery of salvation not to b set up against 1 another n contradiction like mhfm.
@Kenbird1 No he is not. He is quoting Christ directly when Cheist himself say's "a man must be born again of water and the Holy Ghost. See, people like you are not very good at logic. He is not judging anyone, he is merely repeating what Christ has already judged. Every person will be judged individually it is true, and neither I nor you will make that judgement, but Christ has already told us how he will rule on certain things. This is just the Catholic Church, like it or not.
@325nicaea It's apparent that you have absolutely no clue of what you flap about. Pick up a book and read it, do something useful rather than trying to throw your self righteous fat self around on the Internet.
@Kenbird1 i liked your video. My brother had an argument with Brother Peter Dimond about this issue as well. I think i'm pretty much of the same opinion as you are, for now, and i appreciate you shared this with us, thank you.
Sorry, but all this reminds of the Pharisees. As a Cradle Roman Catholic, disheartened by what that Church has become -- my family and I found the ancient and original Christian faith -- The Eastern Orthodox Church, which has not changed its core beliefs or Liturgical practices in more than 1600 years. Want to experience what Catholic worship once was? Attend an Orthodox Liturgical service. Fridays of Lent, Liturgy of pre-sanctified Gifts, written by St. Gregory Dialogus, Pope of Rome.
@foxriverfred The problem with ur position is that it leads souls 2 Hell and not 2 Heaven. They r not the Church, u r like the disciples in the Scriptures that "walked with him no longer," because they couldn't stomach certain doctrines or the fact that Christ would be crucified. The same with u, the Church is going through the same thing Christ did, because the Church is Christ, and its being crucified like He was & you have abondoned him into heresy and schism and you foolishly justifiy it.
@Kenbird1 No -- it is the Vatican who chose to walk away in 1054 from the Church Christ founded and His Apostles spread. It is the Vatican, who rather than accept "hard things" to understand, chose instead to try to explain the unexplainable with the doctrine of Transubstantiation. Where in Holy Apostolic Tradition does one find Papal Supremacy, let alone Papal Infallibility, largely accepted or even claimed before 1054?
@Kenbird1 Funny -- the Roman Church you defend so passionately disagrees with you. The Roman church views all sacraments in the Eastern Orthodox Church as valid. So far from "Going to Hell", the Vatican teaches that Orthodox Christians are just as worthy as any Roman Catholic. Check your catechism if you don't believe me. Also see what it says to do if a Roman Church is not available... God Bless.
Please visit w ww.youtube.com/user/mhfm1 for critical information for your soul.
Please do not ignore this chance to learn of the one true faith!
(When debating MHFM Ken Bird said that he could not go back to believing in BOD for catechumens since all the evidence was shown and explained to him. He said that he would be a liar to go back to the position. Well what do you know, he returned to his false belief and doesn't admit that he's a liar but tries to justify himself.)
@UltimateTacoman I should just delete this post but since you would take it as cowardace I will not. You are not aware of the circumstances of that conversation, nor apparently do you understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. You like the Dimonds can't trust the Church and you make your own conclusions and then expect everyone else to follow them or condemn them if they do not. If Bapitism of Desire was not the teaching of the Church it would have been specifically addressed, it wasnt.
@UltimateTacoman If BOD & BOB is false then how are there Saints who were not physically baptized on earth? Why does the code of Canon Law approve it? You can say its not infallible but that is a lie, it was given to the universal Church. The Latin Church is considered the Universal Church, but to further prove it the same code was issued to the east and Bod is taught there as well.
MHFM were protestants and it is their nature to be this way. They have done a great work that may bring many people to the Church. The best thing to do is watch what they put out in videos and books but do not communicate with them. One could be pushed away from the Faith because of their lack of charity. It takes more time for some souls to convert and this is Gods will.
Ken, I don't like seeing sedes fight sedes in public. You claim that you want all sedes to come together in unity, yet you cause strife and division by what you say against the Dimond brothers.
So....are u going to play this video for Christ when He returns & asks u why you accepted birth control? U start by saying u are going to stay on 1 issue & u make a liar out of yourself quite easily. What is your one issue? You're all over the place w/ issues.I have stopped listening & it's just barely 6 minutes in. I checked you out 'cause you're a friend of friends on facebook. Gotta say you need to just go be a father and husband. U choose marriage not priesthood or to be a monk.
Sounds like the DVD was not that important to you if you lost it. Yes MHFM lack true Charity, moreover when they start to conmdem people to hell, this is where they put themselves in place of Christ. Sedevacantism is a matter of opinion and would not condemn someone to hell. Sedevacantists very root is in the pre-counciliar popes. As far as NFP I wouldn't personally play with the work of God.
As a Ordo practitioner with traditional leanings...it seems as though you can morph into the Bro Diamond character when speaking of the more conservative Catholic spokesmen. Sometimes the Pot meets the Kettle. Anyway...just an opinion for what it's worth. Enjoy the topic and vids... Speaking truth can always be charitable. It will be self evident and have the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
that is very EVIL thing to say. these brothers are EVIL. even lepers have not been excommunicated from saints life. they(BroDs) are NOT CONFESSORS, they are DECTATORS!
Consider the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican and the value of humility.
dacanale 2 weeks ago
Your last sentence is surprising when considering that you called Suprema haec sacra magesterial. Suprema haec sacra explicitly says that the "desire does not to be explicit as in the case of catechumens". (The modernist version of the term "explicit" does not mean "expressed with words" but means as much as "existent", while "implicit" does not mean "fallowing from the explicit" but rather "not existent but existent".)
How can you have it both ways?
lxnvcts 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The concept of salvation without baptism is what lead to the great apostasy we are living in. It started "harmless" by the idea that a catechuman who was murdered can go to heaven. It went on to baptism of desire. It ended with "baptism for desire for all" by changing the meaning of implicit desire.
The great apostasy had to come. And the way it came is by not believing in the word of Christ in scripture and dogma. The great apostasy has come by the idea of salvation without baptism.
lxnvcts 1 month ago
Comment removed
lxnvcts 1 month ago
In order to become a Catholic one must be baptized. An unbaptized Catechumen is not a Catholic until he joins the Catholic Church through baptism.
Baptism of desire comes from the human mind and contradicts directly what God has revealed. While the Dogma always remained the same rejecting the idea that anyone could be saved without the waters of baptism and without the Catholic faith, the concepts for salvation of unpaptized or heretics have changed many times.
lxnvcts 1 month ago
I agree, we need to hold conferences and address Rome and call them out on this apostasy. I agree MHFM is not joining arms. However, I think you are confusing love with emotion. I think if you could have seen Padre Pio and how he was called "grumpy" by many, you could see that Michael is a lot like that. He knows and believes that Heresy is the enemy of the Church. Heretics are people and do exist, and Diamond calls them out.
THEJET52 4 months ago
God's love and mercy IS His Sacraments and His Church. His commandment to go out and preach the gospel and to Baptize everyone in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is absolute. The Catholic Church defends Christs' absolute Truths. Does it seem impossible to Baptize everyone on the planet who need to be? Is that why you believe in BOD? I mean, what is your excuse? Christ's Mercy? Christ said, what is impossible for man is possible for the Father. Now, that takes FAITH to hear.
THEJET52 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It was never supposed to be and does not have to be this complicated. Get out of your head and into your heart.
SiriusShaun 4 months ago
The MHFM brothers are down the wrong road. They DO NOT love. Don't follow them to hell.
Peace, brother.
SiriusShaun 4 months ago
You say that "if a catechumen is in perfect charity(which comes through water baptism) and desires to be baptized and has only original sin without any mortal sin that Christ will save him without baptism since He is above Divine law" why is it so hard to believe that...instead of Christ going against or "outside" of His own laws that if a person of such good disposition that Christ might just ...allow him to get baptized, or were all of the miraculous death defying baptisms just for show?
truelightwitness 5 months ago
No he is not. He is quoting Christ directly when Christ himself says "a man must be born again of water and the Holy Ghost. See, people like you are not very good at logic. He is not judging anyone, he is merely repeating what Christ has already said about judgement. Every person will be judged individually it is true, and neither I nor you will make that judgement, but Christ himself has already told us how he will rule on certain things. This is just the Catholic Church, like it or not.
frost122585 5 months ago
wow
paul1349 6 months ago
@325nicaea Not according to the Bible........
progressfabbrian 6 months ago
@325nicaea Hon - go and find what the true nature of our God is. If you truly knew Him, you could never make such a statement. It almost borders on blasphemy. You need to speak of God's love and mercy for his children - not his loathing. With you around, Satan can lay back and take a nap. He couldn't do better!
wolfiestanzi 6 months ago
THANK YOU Ken, for inserting a note of sanity here. I never knew these folk existed until a few days ago. I was watching one of their videos and did an audio double-take. I couldn't believe I was actually hearing what I was hearing! JPII the anti-Pope! As Rocky the Flying Squirrel would say "Hokey Smokes!" What I heard was Satan Himself - the Accuser of the brethren. So much mental illness in the Body of Christ. I'll keep them in my prayers. May God have mercy on them!
wolfiestanzi 6 months ago
Hi Ken. You are still a bit naive about who Sanborn, Cekada and Dolan are. Many of us have known these men for years and have seen them destroy families by their greed and lust (i've mentioned the relationship that Cekada and Dolan have and what they haev allowed to happend to the children in their school (and have tried to do themselves). Do you think that perhaps you are underestimating the Masonic infiltration of the Church? Why WOULDN'T some wolves try to enter the trad movement as well?
petrusprimus 6 months ago
@325nicaea can you please give an explanation as to why this teaching of baptism of desire was taught for centuries in catechist books, from the Council of Trent on till now, and no Pope, nor saint has ever protested this teaching or claimed it was heretical. And Pope st.Pius V condemned the heresy of Michael Bajus, who falsely stated that one can have sincere feelings of remorse, faith (and desire for baptism), without justification. 1 october 1567. Denzinger 1031 (or 1931).
shetlandwool 6 months ago
@shetlandwool The reason why is because many people believed in Baptism of desire, but it is not a defined dogma of the Chruch. In fact most of the early Chruch fathers rejected baptism of desire. Christ is pretty clear about it in scripture and missionaries have been dieing for centuries trying to baptise people because it is absolutely necessary. Even Christ was baptised. It could be that no man who dies unbaptised is capable of feelings of true faith. The grace of faith comes from baptism.
frost122585 5 months ago
@frost122585 hopefully some Pope in future will speak the final word on this issue.
shetlandwool 5 months ago
BOD has been comdemned. PERIOD.The proper word is VOW not desire.
kevfal 8 months ago
Thank you for such an interesting diatribe.
spare us with the ridiculous loud music, thank you
how can someone consider themself christlike and not be likable?
subscribed
kowalityjesus 8 months ago
Thank you for such an interesting diatribe.
spare us with the ridiculous loud music, thank you
how can someone consider themself christlike and not be likable?
kowalityjesus 8 months ago
Thank you for such an interesting diatribe.
spare us with the ridiculous loud music, thank you
kowalityjesus 8 months ago
Here are my comments:
1. Pius XII was a heretic, Mason and antipope.
2. The first of the modern antipopes was Leo XIII (his successors were also heretics).
3. This means that 1917 'Code of Canon Law' and it's support of BoD are false, unlawful and heretical.
Please visit my channel and watch the video "Masonic Infiltration and Dimond Capitulation" to see how the Dimonds hide the evidence that Pacelli was a Mason and auto-excommunicated for his support of and association with them.
davecyco 8 months ago
@davecyco Here is my answer
1. Pius XII was not a heretic, you are stupid and have no idea what you are talking about
2. Leo XIII was a good man, a good pope, and died a good death.
3. You are wrong about the Code and you do not understand papal infallibility
I will not visit your channel, I will not waste my time.
Kenbird1 8 months ago 3
@Kenbird1 As long as you admit that you are not interested in seeing the evidence for yourself, then your 1, 2, and 3 don't mean a hang of a lot, do they?
davecyco 8 months ago
@davecyco Pope Pius XII and Pope Leo XIII were not antipopes. Are you a canon lawer? Your comments sound more like an advertisment to visit your channel.
kevfal 8 months ago
Comment removed
davecyco 8 months ago
Comment removed
davecyco 8 months ago
One of them at the MHFM actally said to me that the Church justly excommunicated Galileo for claiming that the earth orbits the sun.
chimay131 9 months ago
@325nicaea The problem wit that statement is that u r sitting n the judgment seat of Christ, a vantage point u hav not & u r n opposition 2 the history, liturgy, & law of the Church that has set precedent citing several examples of Martyrdom w/o baptism, the elevation of the unbaptized 2 the altar, & exceptions n law 4 those n good faith who hav died w/o it. The infallible teachings r 2 b held n continuity with the mystery of salvation not to b set up against 1 another n contradiction like mhfm.
Kenbird1 9 months ago
@Kenbird1 BS!
kevfal 8 months ago
@Kenbird1 No he is not. He is quoting Christ directly when Cheist himself say's "a man must be born again of water and the Holy Ghost. See, people like you are not very good at logic. He is not judging anyone, he is merely repeating what Christ has already judged. Every person will be judged individually it is true, and neither I nor you will make that judgement, but Christ has already told us how he will rule on certain things. This is just the Catholic Church, like it or not.
frost122585 5 months ago
@325nicaea It's apparent that you have absolutely no clue of what you flap about. Pick up a book and read it, do something useful rather than trying to throw your self righteous fat self around on the Internet.
Kenbird1 9 months ago 3
@Kenbird1 i liked your video. My brother had an argument with Brother Peter Dimond about this issue as well. I think i'm pretty much of the same opinion as you are, for now, and i appreciate you shared this with us, thank you.
shetlandwool 6 months ago
im the 666th view! ( weird )
seanom23 10 months ago
Sorry, but all this reminds of the Pharisees. As a Cradle Roman Catholic, disheartened by what that Church has become -- my family and I found the ancient and original Christian faith -- The Eastern Orthodox Church, which has not changed its core beliefs or Liturgical practices in more than 1600 years. Want to experience what Catholic worship once was? Attend an Orthodox Liturgical service. Fridays of Lent, Liturgy of pre-sanctified Gifts, written by St. Gregory Dialogus, Pope of Rome.
foxriverfred 10 months ago
@foxriverfred The problem with ur position is that it leads souls 2 Hell and not 2 Heaven. They r not the Church, u r like the disciples in the Scriptures that "walked with him no longer," because they couldn't stomach certain doctrines or the fact that Christ would be crucified. The same with u, the Church is going through the same thing Christ did, because the Church is Christ, and its being crucified like He was & you have abondoned him into heresy and schism and you foolishly justifiy it.
Kenbird1 10 months ago
@Kenbird1 No -- it is the Vatican who chose to walk away in 1054 from the Church Christ founded and His Apostles spread. It is the Vatican, who rather than accept "hard things" to understand, chose instead to try to explain the unexplainable with the doctrine of Transubstantiation. Where in Holy Apostolic Tradition does one find Papal Supremacy, let alone Papal Infallibility, largely accepted or even claimed before 1054?
foxriverfred 10 months ago
@Kenbird1 Funny -- the Roman Church you defend so passionately disagrees with you. The Roman church views all sacraments in the Eastern Orthodox Church as valid. So far from "Going to Hell", the Vatican teaches that Orthodox Christians are just as worthy as any Roman Catholic. Check your catechism if you don't believe me. Also see what it says to do if a Roman Church is not available... God Bless.
foxriverfred 10 months ago
Please visit w ww.youtube.com/user/mhfm1 for critical information for your soul.
Please do not ignore this chance to learn of the one true faith!
(When debating MHFM Ken Bird said that he could not go back to believing in BOD for catechumens since all the evidence was shown and explained to him. He said that he would be a liar to go back to the position. Well what do you know, he returned to his false belief and doesn't admit that he's a liar but tries to justify himself.)
UltimateTacoman 10 months ago
@UltimateTacoman I should just delete this post but since you would take it as cowardace I will not. You are not aware of the circumstances of that conversation, nor apparently do you understand the teachings of the Catholic Church. You like the Dimonds can't trust the Church and you make your own conclusions and then expect everyone else to follow them or condemn them if they do not. If Bapitism of Desire was not the teaching of the Church it would have been specifically addressed, it wasnt.
Kenbird1 10 months ago
@UltimateTacoman If BOD & BOB is false then how are there Saints who were not physically baptized on earth? Why does the code of Canon Law approve it? You can say its not infallible but that is a lie, it was given to the universal Church. The Latin Church is considered the Universal Church, but to further prove it the same code was issued to the east and Bod is taught there as well.
Kenbird1 10 months ago
MHFM were protestants and it is their nature to be this way. They have done a great work that may bring many people to the Church. The best thing to do is watch what they put out in videos and books but do not communicate with them. One could be pushed away from the Faith because of their lack of charity. It takes more time for some souls to convert and this is Gods will.
makovich1234 10 months ago
Ken, I don't like seeing sedes fight sedes in public. You claim that you want all sedes to come together in unity, yet you cause strife and division by what you say against the Dimond brothers.
Faith3Faith 11 months ago
So....are u going to play this video for Christ when He returns & asks u why you accepted birth control? U start by saying u are going to stay on 1 issue & u make a liar out of yourself quite easily. What is your one issue? You're all over the place w/ issues.I have stopped listening & it's just barely 6 minutes in. I checked you out 'cause you're a friend of friends on facebook. Gotta say you need to just go be a father and husband. U choose marriage not priesthood or to be a monk.
donteatthekalanchoe 11 months ago
Sounds like the DVD was not that important to you if you lost it. Yes MHFM lack true Charity, moreover when they start to conmdem people to hell, this is where they put themselves in place of Christ. Sedevacantism is a matter of opinion and would not condemn someone to hell. Sedevacantists very root is in the pre-counciliar popes. As far as NFP I wouldn't personally play with the work of God.
makovich1234 11 months ago
As a Ordo practitioner with traditional leanings...it seems as though you can morph into the Bro Diamond character when speaking of the more conservative Catholic spokesmen. Sometimes the Pot meets the Kettle. Anyway...just an opinion for what it's worth. Enjoy the topic and vids... Speaking truth can always be charitable. It will be self evident and have the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
Sprice962 11 months ago
I removed the other two comments because I think that they crossed the line.
All I will say is that you like me and many other people were brought to the Catholic position, because of the research that MHFM put forward.
If MHFM was more "charitable" in the sense that you are talking about then we would both be following the antipopes, on the road to hell.
Charity has nothing to do with charisma, and everything to do with God, and the truth.
God bless
400constantine 11 months ago
Comment removed
400constantine 11 months ago
If they do not draw a line between being a servant and charlatan, then they are charlatan.
woodyaan 11 months ago
'excommunicated from my life?'
that is very EVIL thing to say. these brothers are EVIL. even lepers have not been excommunicated from saints life. they(BroDs) are NOT CONFESSORS, they are DECTATORS!
woodyaan 11 months ago
Comment removed
400constantine 11 months ago