Compulsory education by the state doesn't work. Need proof? Look at the US since The Man started forcing his brand of education. None of it matters anyway. Soon the dollars these leaches are being paid won't buy them food and shelter. Maybe then they'll begin to understand the problems and how they were part of the problem vice the cure. I acknowledge there are good teachers. These few are participating in a broken system. Very few though.
but I take that back. its good to question schooling. and the uses they have. it only takes 100 hours to teach reading, writing, and math. Waaay less than 12 years.. So what are kids doing? wasting a lot of time doing nothing. Anyway man goodluck
In my personal experience with 3 children in public schools over the last 15 yrs- most teachers hands are tied by higher ups and numbers. Teachers do not even want to report bad behavior in classes because they get written up if there are too many kids sent to the office. Often- there are programs that exist, but no one knows how to get through the "red tape" and access them. I have seen some wonderful teachers- but they are few and far between.
very few. I know a really wonderufl teacher is is now becoming very depressed that his students don't want to strive for something. Dude always uses me as an example to his classroom, but no one believes it mostly because I don't hang around my old highschool I'm in Japan for christ sake. this summer I had a research trip in China, and I'm getting ready for graduate school. Soo I haven't been state-side for quite some years now.
There are different State qualifications. Years ago, I had a friend from Mn who started to teach in Tx and it surprise her how different the qualifications where.
I have an idea we should fire imcompetent, lazy doctors for the sorry state of our health care. We are now one of the most obese nation. It's the doctors's fault. They are to blame for this mess. Let's get rid of them. They must be incompetent.
@USASecretHistory I never thought about it from that perpective. You got a point. Why don't we blame doctors like we blame teachers? Maybe it's because doctors are traditionally male.
@independentview1 You do realize teachers work way more than the time just in the classroom with students right? If you are a sub, yes you more than likely work part time, but if you are a teacher, you do way more than that.
I agree with this woman that part of the failure of schools has to do with the environment and mentalities kids come to school with. However there is NO doubt that when parents are invested in their childrens' education kids do better. So giving parents a choice, gives them more of a voice. But it will never be pefect. Many teachers want to teach but find that there are many roadblocks from school administrations and gov. programs as well.
@RadioFlyer308 - It's the opposite in FInland w/ much more success. There're no "bad schools" there. All schools (and all children) are important/deserve a decent education. The so-called free market would create McDonald's-type schools b/c that's what's popular. Look at charter schools: parents are thrilled to send their kids to one, yet only 20% offer anything better than traditional schools.
Competition works in many fields, but not in education. There are other ways to motivate.
@MiranUT The problem is that this is the US not Finland, your country is more advanced, your people are higher on the IQ scale on average than the US. The US is shackled with a less capable population and a system that forces kids into the same box educationally because it is politically incorrect to sort them out by ability - this drags all of them down. Our schools are not for education but used more for indoctrination.
REALLY REALLY GOOD INTERVIEW! I send my kids to private school but want a strong public option for Americans - The public schools are what created this great country. But before we have a conversation on the schools, we need to have an honest discussion on the parents - which was this ladies point...
I get the feeling most of the W@nkers that have commented on this video have no experience teaching.. it would be real fun to watch them try it out for 10 min. and run out crying for their mom like the spoiled brats they come across as. I bet they're the kind of parents that shove off their kids to school, do nothing to educate them and then blame the teacher for their own failure as parents.
@magiorey An L.A. Times article came out in March 31 of this year on Tony Danza the former actor. Google Tony Danza teacher. He basically admitted that he was struggling in his new job. The L.A. Times reports "[H]e cried three times, he said. Explaining [a] concept...Danza didn't get his facts quite right, and one of his students straightened him out... He...felt like calling every teacher he'd ever had and apologizing because he just didn't get how difficult their jobs were.
@xardas711 - It's not racist to wonder why he brought the former superintendent of Chicago schools (50% graduation rate) to Washington to continue George Bush's failed policy of No Child Left Behind.
It is a fact that in Union jobs(and government jobs) have more shitbags than private sector jobs...It's called job security. When there is a chance of you getting fired for being a piece of shit, you straighten out of you toast. On the other hand if you keep your job unless you rape or murder somebody....You might be more inclined to not give a shit.
@Caretika I have worked and dealt extensively with both private and public sectors, unionized and non-unionized workers, and your little theory does not hold.
The idea that job insecurity makes better workers is false. Otherwise Burger King clerks would give 'more of a shit' than NASA employees - do you think that's true?
I am glad that teachers are finally waking up to the scum they voted in. I sw this from th outset and I am a teacher but I will not work for the DOE. As a group teachers are politically naive. You all had you're Obama buttons and posters and he fucked right up the ass. Find the teachable moment and fucking learn shitheads.
"This is a tough job." In The School District where I live Teachers work 180 days a year, weekends off, nights off, Holidays off, a 3 month Summer Vacation, 2 week Winter Break, 10 Day Spring Break, a 6 hour work day and earn an average of $41,000. ($227 a day or $37.83 an hour) Throw in 100% family medical coverage, a pension and the Union mob protecting your job. There are 4 job openings this Summer and almost 500 applicants. Try getting a job like that in the private sector.
@independentview1 That's not necessarily indicative of all school districts, your school districts job situation sounds very similar to the school district my mother works in, but the school district one city away cant find enough teachers because they pay is so bad. And the SAT and ACT scores for my mothers school district is much higher than that of the poorer district. My moms school district not only pays well but they have good teachers too!
@Iwiehavo That's true but pay for any job varies from place to place. New Teachers are also going to make less than Teachers who have worked for several years butAccording to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics the average Teacher in America makes $53,000 a year. What exactly would you say is "bad pay" for a position that's only requires people to work part-time?
@independentview1 Where do you get teachers work part time. They just don't work school hours. You do realize that right? They can't do curriculum, grade papers, and do inservice while the kids are in school. I live in Texas and Texas teachers on average do not get $53,000/year for their "part time" jobs. Also how many jobs in the private sector do you have where you have to pay out of pocket for your supplies? Teachers do often.
@sidittygal In my State there are 180 days of school. That leaves 185 days without school. The local district, 6 hour work days, 8-2 H.S. and 9-3 for Grade School. 1/2 days for Teachers-in-service so Teachers can still leave by 3:00. Working less than half the days in a year and then only 6 hours is part time. Teachers don't have the easiest jobs in the world but they don't have the hardest either. For the jobs they do and hours they work they are more than fairly compensated.
@independentview1 You are just counting the hours they work with the children. You are not counting when they are creating curriculum and lesson plans. You are not counting them creating tests.You are not counting the time it takes to grade papers. You are not counting the time it takes to get re-certified in certain states. There is more to teaching than just teaching.It isn't a job you just go to from 8-2 and sit down.Most teachers get to school way before school hours start or stay later.
@sidittygal It would do many Teachers good to have to go out into the priavte sector and get a job where they have to produce results and can be fired for not performing well. Not to mention working 60 to 70 hour work weeks all year, including the Summer months, Holidays and weekends. Maybe then they would do much less complaining about their jobs.
@independentview1 humm, how about unionize and stike to get humane working hour, and get a life instead of losing your life for the profit of the boss ?
Ya know socialised europe get more vacation, more leaisure time, better service, AND are MORE productive than american.
@moestietabarnak So then I can work to make some Union boss rich. I'd work 3 jobs 365 days a year before I would disgrace myself by joining some stinking Union. Unions tried using workers to take over companies and now most of the jobs they once did are done in China and the Union workers are on unemployment and Food Stamps while the Union bosses sit in their beach houses. Unions have cost millions of American jobs to go to other countries.
@independentview1 Look like your union's boss have the same flaw as most american, greed. I think it's mainly due to your treatment of unions, your 'boss' are so calous and demonize 'union' that only the most greedy and corrupted stay on, The reasonable got kicked long ago.
@independentview1 You're talking about a useless, current system, what we need is real, democratic organization by the workers to demand their rights. Imagine if workers didn't even have the option to organize, the fatcats would just be left in charge of everything.
@independentview1 We have to fire the doctors too. We're obese because of them. They're not helping us. Fire them. Besides they work in a sector dominated traditionally by males. Come on that hurts my pride as a man. They need to show more positive results.
I personally think the poor compensation is why we can't keep and find quality teachers. A college degreed person in the private sector gets raises on a regular basis and makes way more money for LESS hours (I still don't think you are counting the hours outside of class time when you factor in what teachers REALLY DO), teachers on average get pitiful raises, when they do get raises. They also often pay for their own supplies.
@sidittygal Go on a private sector interview and tell them you want a job M-F for six hours a day from September to early June with no nights or a weekends and that you will go to court before working a Holiday. Remind them that once you are there for 2 years it's almost impossible to ever fire you no matter how poorly you do your job but in return you agree to get re-certified every few years and grade some tests. At the very least you will give them a good laugh.
@independentview1 Let me ask you something, have you ever taught in a school? Have you ever had to prepare a course or an assessment plan? Do you think that a teacher's work day ends when the bell rings?
@MarquisdeBarrabas No. I have never had to operate on someone either but I can still understand that Surgeons work very long hours and have difficult jobs that they are not paid enough for doing. I do have a brother, sister and several friends who are Teachers and am very aware of their work schedules. Teachers do not have the easiest jobs but they don't rank in the top 500 most difficult either. Just about any job where you work the entire year would be considered more difficult.
@independentview1 - What job do you think is more difficult than being a teacher? 10 Toughest Jobs Here’s the List: 1. Inner-city high school teacher 2. Police officer 3. Miner 4. Air traffic controller 5. Medical intern 6. Stock broker 7. Journalist 8. Customer service/ complaint department worker 9. Waitress 10. Secretary From The National Institute on Workers Compensation and the American Institute of Stress (1988). Old, but I doubt it’s changed that much.
@MarquisdeBarrabas Well to give you a fair chance to understand our education system and why we need to pay people according to ability, you first need to understand that the school system is not supposed to be controlled by govt. but by the community where it resides. That means no outside influence from the the govt., Next on that list is the fact that higher paid teachers does not equal better educated children. Third is that although teaching is hard, it is a job that has a lot of perks.
@JnRTechnology those perks are part of the problem. Although a teacher can be fired often as not they are left alone and continue to be paid a salary that they are not really earning. If you know that your students must perform at a certain level you will be more apt to make sure they learn what you are teaching and you will have earned your paycheck. Even though teachers take their work home with them, and have for decades, our children are not able to compete academically in the world arena..
@JnRTechnology and yet teachers from far poorer nations that pay less than we pay our teachers here are scoring higher that our best school here. So you tell me who is doing their job and who's not. BTW MarquisdeBarrabas your comment to me essentially you have said that inner city kids were not as smart as other kids. You are the one who should use your head and think before you speak. Or wait use the education you have to get it right and know that location does not determine intelligence!
@independentview1 It goes to show you don't know anything about teaching. Salaries are very dependent on experience and most teachers - depending on districts - are lucky to make 20k a year. 6 hour work day? Are you retarded? That's just school hours. Try 12-14 hours. You think it's easy to read/grade 30-40 papers? Winter/Spring breaks are usually are usually used for curriculum/test prep. If you're lower rung, summers are unemployment hell and most teachers I know have to find alternate income.
This kind lady is good at rationalizing... I wonder how good she is with handling actual issues. She did a good job of whining and complaining though, she's very good at interviews though.
@kinglewisjtl24 What about adminstrators? Why aren't principals blamed like educators? And what about superintendents and corrupt school boards? These people grossly mismanage budgets and get away with it. No one says anything.
@USASecretHistory Yea... I often group the administrators along with the teachers... I would say the obvious in that... our school's are being mismanaged from the top down which allows bad teachers to stay in position... we need more strict regulations and also time to allow systems to develop... it's so complex...
principals should be blamed... in fact more so than the educators because the school boards are dumb and get bad superintendents bad principals and bad teachers. who decides on the school boards?
I would agree with Ms. Lewis that the problem is not those few teachers on the wrong side of the bell curve. The problem is the entire system. The problem is that this is a federal program and like other federal programs, it is an absolute failure. Their cry is – just give them more time and more money.
I say, we pay for what we get. What we get is stealing tax money and supporting a failed job creation scheme.
@xardas711 how bigotted - the decline of america has everything to do with the prevalence of the Military Industrial Complex and the bullshit false economy.
@xardas711 Actually the more relevant correlation is mother's leaving home. This put tremendous downward pressure on wages and left an equally tremendous void in the home.
Women were sold a bill of goods when they were told they needed to be employed outside the home to have value as a human being and America has paid the price.
Stop looking for excuse to express your racism, or maybe is just ignorance.
Poor people live off welfare. There are more whites on welfare than blacks but percentage-wise there are more blacks on welfare than whites. It's also important to note that 25% of the black race lives below poverty line while less than 10% of the white race does
@scipio2009 She was largely on the defensive. This profession has been under assault for the past two decades. If you listen with an open mind she's actually right. But she smaller class size, experienced teachers, and constant resources working with students. Firing people is a quick fix. And honestly if we actually did fire all those "bad teacher", who's going to replace them? But we have no problem promoting failure in the private sector and the military. That's okay.
@USASecretHistory My only criticism of that is that you can't just call for smaller classrooms, "experienced teachers", and constant resources, without offering some sort of concession. Not sure what the statutes are in other states, but I believe California has a mandates of 24 students per class being the high-water mark.
You can't just say, for example, that you want that number to go down to 20, hold on to more and more "tenured" teachers, and not give anything up. Makes no sense.
@scipio2009 The point is I have seen classrooms with 12 kids in upper class society. I've seen it on TV. You can't solve this problem when this inequity exists. California is a joke. If you look at the date school funding was negatively impacted by Proposition 13 in the 70s. This was the era of "White Flight." They didn't want their kids going to school with minorities.
@USASecretHistory So, are you then trying to argue that school funding should be increased to the point where class size is HALVED without calling for a single concession from teachers? Honestly?
@USASecretHistory If the teachers unions came to the table and said that they were willing to work on developing a fair assessment for teachers, with administrators and "data checkers who know nothing", I'd hope that a comparative concession would be to see funding free up a bit, to get class sizes to 21-22, from 24 students, in addition to additional tools to help those teachers who need the assistance to learn their craft.
@scipio2009 Follow the money. Principals and school boards do whatever they want with the money. LAUSD was given enough money by the federal government last year so they wouldn't have to let go of any teachers. You know something they ended up spending half of the money in the first year and the rest in the second year. So they got rid of several hundreds of teachers. They are corrupt. There are many cases of nepotism in this district that has a $7 billion budget.
@USASecretHistory And if the principals and school boards would committ to moving away from their "nepotism", in a meaningful way, would you then commit to the believed concession that the teacher's unions ought to come to the table and figure out some kind of fair assessment for teachers?
@USASecretHistory yes she is right and as a Education major and future student I think think she was on point considering High end Testing and No child Left behind. Obama should know better how awful and flawed No Child Left behind. Her whole point was that its up to the Student as Well as the Teacher which is 100% truth.
Don't you understand where this is all heading? It's heading to privatization of schools, schools run by companies, which is happening already. Eventually, it will be children LIVING at their schools to ensure proper nutrition, not bringing home problems into the school setting, etc. Kids will only come home for one or two short breaks every year. Sad, but that's what it is coming to.
@ginesdepasamonte again if you want to remove the teacher proof problem... get rid of the federal govt. involvement. They are the problem. The money spent on education per child is so appalling that I am disgusted. I received a far better education than my kids are getting and when I went to school the average cost per student was just under 4,000.00 per student. So is federal money really needed? NO WAY!! What we need are teachers that are getting it right and less federal govt. involvement.
@JnRTechnology I think the solution may be someplace that we have not been looking for it enough. Our system has not evolved as rapidly as has our reality. We keep adding subjects and perspectives and scholarship in almost every area has become quite dynamic but, we keep evaluating as though we were still in the master/apprentice dynamic. We ask educators to be scholars, pedagogues, and evaluators. And we ask them to do it all in the same time frame. I think that is what needs to change.
Use all the same thing she's saying and replace teacher with "banker". It takes a few years for a banker to hit their stride. Some bankers have a bad year. It's not the banker thats at fault it's the environment they are in. We should make sure all the bankers go through due process first. Even if it takes a decade.
I'm sure all of these things are true. But when I hear someone blame everything but themselves, I know something is rotten.
@sirellyn - Research shows the no. 1 determing factor of success in learning is the teacher. But you can't ignore the dysfunctional social system the Americans have. To compare bankers and teachers is insane. Education should never be treated like banking or sales or any other competitive field. It is much more organic. Look at Finland: They do not use a competition model and they have a sucessful education system (parents also regard themselves as partners in education).
@MiranUT If the number 1 determining factor of learning success is the teacher, why in the world would you give a teacher so many "breaks"?
They are having a bad year, give them a break. They punched a student in the face, give them a break. They showed up to work drunk again, give them a break.
99% of other profession would fire a worker for such behavior to ensure quality of product.
So you argue that the quality of a burger is more important than the quality of a child's education?
@sirellyn - punched a student? showed up to work drunk? If you think that's what I'm advocating, there's no reason to continue a conversation with you. "...the quality of a burger is more important than the quality of a child's education?" WTF?
@MiranUT If you think you are creating a quality education system by paying people only by seniority and making it nearly impossible to fire people for poor performance, you would understand quality doesn't factor into education.
I'm saying that more quality control goes into workers at a burger joint, and that's a very sad statement.
If you don't understand how risk/adversity and success are linked, then you are right, there's no point in continuing the conversation.
@sirellyn - "paying people only by seniority and making it nearly impossible to fire people for poor "? Where'd I write that? If you could read, you'd understand my points.
If risk/adversity led to success in education, the inner city kids in the US would be out-performing Asia & Northern Europe. You need to rethink using a business model for education. It's already being proven that it doesn't work (charter schools). Cooperation is much more effective in learning; the sciences prove that.
@MiranUT Risk and adversity for teachers JOBS. Inner city schools would be the best if the lousy ones were allowed to fail. People were allowed to decide where to put their money.
They'd send their kids to the best of the lousiest. But it would get overfull.
In short order others would figure they could do at least as good as that still
crappy school. And then others. until you have only good or great schools
@sirellyn - You think parents’d send their kids to the better school? They’d only be sending them one that marketed itself better. The US has experimented w/ free choice for 20 years: charter schools. Only a minority of them provide a better education than traditional schools.
Do you know the typical profile of a teacher in the inner city? Do you understand the social problems interfering with education? No. If you did, you would not be claiming competition is the salvation of the US system.
@sirellyn - Currently, inner city schools compete for teachers, not the other way around. Suburban WASPs come in to teach a year or two to kids they have absolutely no way to identify with (might as well be speaking a foreign language), if they can take it then flee back to the burbs. How would your competition model fix that?
@micahgee I have no love of bankers, but are you suggesting payment and treatment based on difficulty? I should injure myself to get paid more?
People choose jobs themselves partially based on difficulty and leave them for that reason too. They can also change jobs too. They stay often because pay for public sector is better than 95% of private sector, plus benefits. Add to that it's nearly impossible to fire them, it's a recipe for a lot who don't really care mixed with some who do.
Teaching is a hard job, my father was a teacher for more than 20 years and dealing with problem kids, freaked out parents and dysfunctional principals is not an easy thing but he did it because he thought it was important. Everyone who has ever gone to school knows a teacher who was a total asshole and conservatives generally treat teachers as if they were all assholes who need to be beaten into submission. The truth is teachers care, or they wouldn't be there. So show some respect.
@blackiron60 I agree that teaching is a hard job. However... we seem to forget a very serious problem that is occurring. The problem is that the teachers who are getting it right and sticking to their beliefs and really teaching their students are not as great in numbers as they once were. I had a teacher that I can honestly say was one of the strictest teachers I had ever known, but one of the best I have ever know right up till today. So my respect is given to the teachers that get it right.
@blackiron60 Very well said, blackiron60. It's true that some teachers are just negligent, others have thrown in the towel, but most teachers care a lot more than students and parents give them credit for.
The reason why right-wingers look down on teachers is simple: they respect money, power and status, they do not respect work. So it doesn't matter how hard you work, as a school teacher you are going to get no respect from them.
@blackiron60 My whole family is made up of teachers. Dad, uncles, aunts even sister! Of course teaching is hard. In fact at times it's brutal. But you said it yourself, teachers are there because they care and want to be. So if they wouldn't give up through 45 years of student abuse why the heck do you think they'd just give up because their school was closed down or they were fired?
You need both factors. I love the sunny days but understand without rain, I'm just living in a desert.
I blame the powers that be. They have been weakening the public schools for 40 years . Corporations would love the new market of private schools funded by the tax payer . Yup....all the money could be funneled right to the ceo and corporate executives. On top of our tax money going to the corp. ....we can also pay a tuition and the people who cant afford it , well they can work in the fields . Sounds like we are building a third world country for our selves.
@bonnevie9 - Yup. You are exactly right! Last year's CREDO report shows that most of the charter schools are performing the same or worse than public school. Only 20% show any significant improvement. Yet the admin for those schools make 3x that of public schools.
The US public system/sector = reward for poor performance. No wonder everyone is sinking to the bottom.
Our education sucks because our society sucks. This lady is so right to ridicule the idea that education is something that only happens in a school building.
I had some of the worst teachers imaginable in my time at high school but fucking hell if this scapegoating of teachers isn't the most disgusting shit I've ever seen.
If this woman is the best and brightest of chicago's teachers then i'm a little worried. All we need is money,money,money money, cause its worked so well in the past right.
@JHGesus - Agreed. Chicago schools graduate 50% of their students - if that gives you any idea!
But she makes one good point about the social conditions in urban areas. The US war on inner cities (i.e. the drug war) is probably the number factor in this mess. Most urban schools have very high drop out rates.
@MiranUT -Agreed. But the inner city conditions are only there because we've exported all the labor out of this country and now no work is left for people. When all the money is made in the financial sector there is no use for the people who fill these cities. How the government handles it might be saddening, but at the core i think the incredible wealth and power of corporations is to blame. The government doesn't want restless poor, and that what you get when you've exported all their jobs.
OK I have to comment here because she is half right and half wrong. First and foremost... STOP creating sub levels of learning for kids. We had a higher level of learning ability 50 years ago in the US than we do today. We didn't separate kids into all these sub groups of ability back then. Secondly... it is a FACT that more money pumped into the schools doesn't mean better educated kids. So there should be a rating system for pay for teachers based on how their students test.
@JnRTechnology also teachers need to stop letting the federal govt. get involved in how they teach. The education of our children is the responsibility of the community and state where they reside. The federal govt. has violated our rights by being involved in education. They have overstepped their constitution powers and we have let them. KICK them out of the process. Lastly if teachers were paid based on performance rather than salary schedules then you would see better teachers & students.
Pay teachers more if they work with challenging kids who do not score well in tests.
There is no shortage of teachers for rich kids.
The real problem is the vast majority of schools which have an ever increasing load.
Smaller classes and beginning quality education earlier work, both cost money as it requires paying people enough to do the job... else you just get substandard low pay teachers.
Also teachers need better & continuer training too.
We've had that for a decade. It's called No Child Left Behind. Testing is not the answer. The education system is antiquated. If Obama was a true leader, he would be reinventing education to prepare kids for the digital age - and, IMO, that means the kids should be doing art, dance and more creative learning in primary school. As naturally curious creatures, kids should LOVE school. Few do.
Public School consists of almost entirely short-term memorization for standardized tests something I saw increasingly growing up aka uneducation.
In terms of the digital age, math, chemistry and physics seem far more relevant for a scientific age. I'm not trying to knock art and dance per se, but art and dance are not going to help create the new technologies to allow the US to remain economically competitive
The bottom line is public school literally turns off kids from learning IMO
@micahgee - With all due respect, the creative arts are needed even more b/c of the digital age. We need more creativity. I use computers in my field (language education) and am grateful for my art background!
We're creating dysfuntion by focusing almost entirely on reading & math. 20% of US primaries don't have art class! Students minds would work better with more art, music and dance. I don't see how chemistry & physics, although important, help prepare kids for the digital age.
@MarquisdeBarrabas So you are you saying that inner city kids are stupid because they live in the inner city. That's exactly the kind of assumptions that have doomed millions of kids that Teachers labled as dumb just because the kid happens to live in the city. Thanks for adding evidence to the argument that many times it's the Teachers that hold back the students.
@independentview1 No, I'm saying that kids who grow up in poor neighbourhoods and deprived households do not have access to many learning resources nor are their parents as prepared to help them with school work, and are therefore more likely to do worse than kids who enjoy these advantages, the quality of teaching being the same.
And I'm saying this because I've found it to be true both as a student and a teacher in poor and affluent schools.
@MarquisdeBarrabas - Poverty is a major factor. Excellent comments above.
I'll add that the number of minority teachers has not kept up with the demographics of the US. A good teacher has to be able to relate to his/her students, and the Wasps coming out of the university system have a hard time doing that in urban schools.
Amen sister. Damn, she just slapped down all of their strawman arguments in almost one shot. Thank goodness their are still people out there like her bitch slapping America at large with the reality of our public education system.
As someone who has come from public schools in June, she is absolutely correct. I have had many teachers I have hated but I cannot say that I have had a teacher that was "bad" per se. A lot of my frustrations come from the system itself especially after our Superintendent made massive budgit cuts to our music program while having a giant staff in the main district offices getting paid large salaries. The problem comes from above the schools, not within.
Teachers are NOT teaching anymore. My daughter is being taught the lessons by ME. She basically goes to school every day to obtain the lessons, comes home with no idea how to do the work, then I am left with the responsibility of making sure she understands it. Karen Lewis hit it perfectly.
@tarossi400 - A bad year doesn't mean they performed poorly. Some teachers can give a great performance & still have a bad year. And it does take a few years (if not a decade) to become a great teacher. Much like being a doctor: You don't come out of med school and "perform great". That's why they call it a medical practice!
You can't treat education like sales quotas. They've been doing that for 10 years; it doesn't work. There're some areas in life where the "competition" model doesn't work.
22 years survived teaching in public schools, several in the poverty areas of Los Angeles. Finally had to escape to work with adult foreign language concentration.
IMO, this woman is at least 90% on target. The best teachers leave worn out. It's not so much bad teachers. The system has been assemblylined. Tme kids were really placed first. That means money for reduced class size. It means each child must be given individual help to catch up. Mostly it means stop paying for wars; help kids.
@navtel - parents have done the same. Education should be a partnership between home and school. Unfortunately, everyone's pointing their fingers at each other and blaming the other.
The best point made in this vid was about the social problems affecting education. Mom's in jail for marijuana possesion or she's working a puts the kids in daycare (where someone is stupid enough to mix up windshield wiper fluid with kool aid) - can't teach her kids colors, shapes or the ABCs.
i teach at a private university and a attended catholic elementary and secondary school, so i don't have any real insight into k-12 public education; that said, teachers have to be able to react to individual student's needs if nothing else. that means smaller classes which automatically means more $.
How about this....hockey players are paid millions and they fucking go around a fuckin' puck for your enjoymen while you say to your kid "Go watch t.v." Teachers are paid shit and their purpose is to fuckin' teach some education and some insight beginnings in your child brain because the parents are fuckin' occupied to go to work to pay the fuckin' morgage. So, who's been paid too much?
i hate teachers all they do is power trip and try to dominate children. Thats how they train kids to be weak and fold like oragami to authority fuck the public indoctrination system
We are not bashing the teachers. The problem is with the union leadership and the political agenda that they are indoctrinating into the teachers and the next generation. Pumping more money into the system as it exists now is a waste in most cases. The cameras should be pulled off the intersections and installed in every classroom. Look at the test scores globally....more money spent....less results.
The educational program was created by the Rockerfeller's and other fuckers of the bank's evil assholes, what do you expect wen teachers do their real jobs... like TEACHING.
@AJSenseI I think you need to watch the video again you are obviously confused! Karen Lewis is saying that the public schools are underfunded and the school test results are being used in the wrong way.This is not just about unions but also poor political leadership in education.
@moviequeen2008 Let's think of this. My father of course is from a different time but he was educated in a 1 room school house. They could teach outside. They could get creative. Many times they want to privatize the public school system or they want to give vouchers to kids. Oh I agree its poor political leadership. They also don't really want to change things. If they did they would think outside the box.
@407buddy US hospitals, health care, in one word: OBESE.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
Compulsory education by the state doesn't work. Need proof? Look at the US since The Man started forcing his brand of education. None of it matters anyway. Soon the dollars these leaches are being paid won't buy them food and shelter. Maybe then they'll begin to understand the problems and how they were part of the problem vice the cure. I acknowledge there are good teachers. These few are participating in a broken system. Very few though.
dershope 1 year ago
@dershope
it works. US just failed at it. But I think its due to people like you.
lordblazer 1 year ago
@dershope
but I take that back. its good to question schooling. and the uses they have. it only takes 100 hours to teach reading, writing, and math. Waaay less than 12 years.. So what are kids doing? wasting a lot of time doing nothing. Anyway man goodluck
lordblazer 1 year ago
you gotta be a dumb motherfucker to not know colors and shapes
1844Freddy 1 year ago
In my personal experience with 3 children in public schools over the last 15 yrs- most teachers hands are tied by higher ups and numbers. Teachers do not even want to report bad behavior in classes because they get written up if there are too many kids sent to the office. Often- there are programs that exist, but no one knows how to get through the "red tape" and access them. I have seen some wonderful teachers- but they are few and far between.
misslisaof3 1 year ago
@misslisaof3
very few. I know a really wonderufl teacher is is now becoming very depressed that his students don't want to strive for something. Dude always uses me as an example to his classroom, but no one believes it mostly because I don't hang around my old highschool I'm in Japan for christ sake. this summer I had a research trip in China, and I'm getting ready for graduate school. Soo I haven't been state-side for quite some years now.
lordblazer 1 year ago
I was talking about good paying jobs. I'm not talking about low paying jobs. Nobody wants those...
Caretika 1 year ago
I like the "No Child Behind, Left"
cedricalien 1 year ago
It's too late for me :(
cedricalien 1 year ago
The answer: re-institue prayer in the public school, and Bible reading
slack7639 1 year ago
Right on, Karen Lewis. Obama's divisive education policy proves the change he promised was just chump change.
I voted for Ralph Nader.
jimlaregina 1 year ago 2
These two videos have really changed my mind about teachers in America. Thank you Karen, finally I get your side of the story. And thank you TRNN.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
There are different State qualifications. Years ago, I had a friend from Mn who started to teach in Tx and it surprise her how different the qualifications where.
davidperi 1 year ago
no, woman, not every job is a teacher-- a job dealing with OUR nation's FUTURE!
so, woman, if you want to slack the fuck off and not do your job--become a security guard.
of course, there are bad students and bad teacher---kick them both out.
fuck the teacher's union.
FREEAMERICANOW69 1 year ago
I have an idea we should fire imcompetent, lazy doctors for the sorry state of our health care. We are now one of the most obese nation. It's the doctors's fault. They are to blame for this mess. Let's get rid of them. They must be incompetent.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory I never thought about it from that perpective. You got a point. Why don't we blame doctors like we blame teachers? Maybe it's because doctors are traditionally male.
ScreamingEagle2010 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory Hehe, good point.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
@independentview1 You do realize teachers work way more than the time just in the classroom with students right? If you are a sub, yes you more than likely work part time, but if you are a teacher, you do way more than that.
sidittygal 1 year ago
Check out;
watch?v=ypeRphyB2Os
I agree with this woman that part of the failure of schools has to do with the environment and mentalities kids come to school with. However there is NO doubt that when parents are invested in their childrens' education kids do better. So giving parents a choice, gives them more of a voice. But it will never be pefect. Many teachers want to teach but find that there are many roadblocks from school administrations and gov. programs as well.
Quranite 1 year ago
Problem: government, administration, lack of competition.
If schools had to compete for kids and money, it would be a much more effective system.
RadioFlyer308 1 year ago
@RadioFlyer308 - It's the opposite in FInland w/ much more success. There're no "bad schools" there. All schools (and all children) are important/deserve a decent education. The so-called free market would create McDonald's-type schools b/c that's what's popular. Look at charter schools: parents are thrilled to send their kids to one, yet only 20% offer anything better than traditional schools.
Competition works in many fields, but not in education. There are other ways to motivate.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT The problem is that this is the US not Finland, your country is more advanced, your people are higher on the IQ scale on average than the US. The US is shackled with a less capable population and a system that forces kids into the same box educationally because it is politically incorrect to sort them out by ability - this drags all of them down. Our schools are not for education but used more for indoctrination.
RadioFlyer308 1 year ago
Sounds more like a parenting problem...
julianhpike 1 year ago
@julianhpike - No. It's a partnership problem and a government problem.
MiranUT 1 year ago
REALLY REALLY GOOD INTERVIEW! I send my kids to private school but want a strong public option for Americans - The public schools are what created this great country. But before we have a conversation on the schools, we need to have an honest discussion on the parents - which was this ladies point...
JimGraham1973 1 year ago
I get the feeling most of the W@nkers that have commented on this video have no experience teaching.. it would be real fun to watch them try it out for 10 min. and run out crying for their mom like the spoiled brats they come across as. I bet they're the kind of parents that shove off their kids to school, do nothing to educate them and then blame the teacher for their own failure as parents.
magiorey 1 year ago 6
@magiorey - I was thinking the same thing!
MiranUT 1 year ago
@magiorey An L.A. Times article came out in March 31 of this year on Tony Danza the former actor. Google Tony Danza teacher. He basically admitted that he was struggling in his new job. The L.A. Times reports "[H]e cried three times, he said. Explaining [a] concept...Danza didn't get his facts quite right, and one of his students straightened him out... He...felt like calling every teacher he'd ever had and apologizing because he just didn't get how difficult their jobs were.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory That's brilliant! Thanks for the story, if I can find the interview then I'll print it and post it on the School Billboard!
magiorey 1 year ago
@magiorey The article's title is Tony Danza Goes Back to School.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
She's such a dweeb, proves teachers suck. Imagine relegating your kids to this monster!!
neverindoubt 1 year ago
critics of obama are just racist
xardas711 1 year ago
@xardas711 - It's not racist to wonder why he brought the former superintendent of Chicago schools (50% graduation rate) to Washington to continue George Bush's failed policy of No Child Left Behind.
MiranUT 1 year ago
its not the teachers its the cirriculum
myOATHmyCREED 1 year ago
It is a fact that in Union jobs(and government jobs) have more shitbags than private sector jobs...It's called job security. When there is a chance of you getting fired for being a piece of shit, you straighten out of you toast. On the other hand if you keep your job unless you rape or murder somebody....You might be more inclined to not give a shit.
Caretika 1 year ago
@Caretika I have worked and dealt extensively with both private and public sectors, unionized and non-unionized workers, and your little theory does not hold.
The idea that job insecurity makes better workers is false. Otherwise Burger King clerks would give 'more of a shit' than NASA employees - do you think that's true?
Think about it.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
Great interview!
crazycanadiangoleafs 1 year ago
this lady is smart
gilgtc 1 year ago
I am glad that teachers are finally waking up to the scum they voted in. I sw this from th outset and I am a teacher but I will not work for the DOE. As a group teachers are politically naive. You all had you're Obama buttons and posters and he fucked right up the ass. Find the teachable moment and fucking learn shitheads.
rudyzen 1 year ago
"This is a tough job." In The School District where I live Teachers work 180 days a year, weekends off, nights off, Holidays off, a 3 month Summer Vacation, 2 week Winter Break, 10 Day Spring Break, a 6 hour work day and earn an average of $41,000. ($227 a day or $37.83 an hour) Throw in 100% family medical coverage, a pension and the Union mob protecting your job. There are 4 job openings this Summer and almost 500 applicants. Try getting a job like that in the private sector.
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 That's not necessarily indicative of all school districts, your school districts job situation sounds very similar to the school district my mother works in, but the school district one city away cant find enough teachers because they pay is so bad. And the SAT and ACT scores for my mothers school district is much higher than that of the poorer district. My moms school district not only pays well but they have good teachers too!
Iwiehavo 1 year ago 2
@Iwiehavo That's true but pay for any job varies from place to place. New Teachers are also going to make less than Teachers who have worked for several years butAccording to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics the average Teacher in America makes $53,000 a year. What exactly would you say is "bad pay" for a position that's only requires people to work part-time?
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 Where do you get teachers work part time. They just don't work school hours. You do realize that right? They can't do curriculum, grade papers, and do inservice while the kids are in school. I live in Texas and Texas teachers on average do not get $53,000/year for their "part time" jobs. Also how many jobs in the private sector do you have where you have to pay out of pocket for your supplies? Teachers do often.
sidittygal 1 year ago
@sidittygal In my State there are 180 days of school. That leaves 185 days without school. The local district, 6 hour work days, 8-2 H.S. and 9-3 for Grade School. 1/2 days for Teachers-in-service so Teachers can still leave by 3:00. Working less than half the days in a year and then only 6 hours is part time. Teachers don't have the easiest jobs in the world but they don't have the hardest either. For the jobs they do and hours they work they are more than fairly compensated.
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 You are just counting the hours they work with the children. You are not counting when they are creating curriculum and lesson plans. You are not counting them creating tests.You are not counting the time it takes to grade papers. You are not counting the time it takes to get re-certified in certain states. There is more to teaching than just teaching.It isn't a job you just go to from 8-2 and sit down.Most teachers get to school way before school hours start or stay later.
sidittygal 1 year ago
@sidittygal It would do many Teachers good to have to go out into the priavte sector and get a job where they have to produce results and can be fired for not performing well. Not to mention working 60 to 70 hour work weeks all year, including the Summer months, Holidays and weekends. Maybe then they would do much less complaining about their jobs.
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 humm, how about unionize and stike to get humane working hour, and get a life instead of losing your life for the profit of the boss ?
Ya know socialised europe get more vacation, more leaisure time, better service, AND are MORE productive than american.
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
@moestietabarnak So then I can work to make some Union boss rich. I'd work 3 jobs 365 days a year before I would disgrace myself by joining some stinking Union. Unions tried using workers to take over companies and now most of the jobs they once did are done in China and the Union workers are on unemployment and Food Stamps while the Union bosses sit in their beach houses. Unions have cost millions of American jobs to go to other countries.
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 Look like your union's boss have the same flaw as most american, greed. I think it's mainly due to your treatment of unions, your 'boss' are so calous and demonize 'union' that only the most greedy and corrupted stay on, The reasonable got kicked long ago.
moestietabarnak 1 year ago
@independentview1 You're talking about a useless, current system, what we need is real, democratic organization by the workers to demand their rights. Imagine if workers didn't even have the option to organize, the fatcats would just be left in charge of everything.
AndrewMann552 1 year ago
@independentview1 We have to fire the doctors too. We're obese because of them. They're not helping us. Fire them. Besides they work in a sector dominated traditionally by males. Come on that hurts my pride as a man. They need to show more positive results.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
I personally think the poor compensation is why we can't keep and find quality teachers. A college degreed person in the private sector gets raises on a regular basis and makes way more money for LESS hours (I still don't think you are counting the hours outside of class time when you factor in what teachers REALLY DO), teachers on average get pitiful raises, when they do get raises. They also often pay for their own supplies.
sidittygal 1 year ago
@sidittygal Go on a private sector interview and tell them you want a job M-F for six hours a day from September to early June with no nights or a weekends and that you will go to court before working a Holiday. Remind them that once you are there for 2 years it's almost impossible to ever fire you no matter how poorly you do your job but in return you agree to get re-certified every few years and grade some tests. At the very least you will give them a good laugh.
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 Let me ask you something, have you ever taught in a school? Have you ever had to prepare a course or an assessment plan? Do you think that a teacher's work day ends when the bell rings?
Don't talk about what you don't know.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
@MarquisdeBarrabas No. I have never had to operate on someone either but I can still understand that Surgeons work very long hours and have difficult jobs that they are not paid enough for doing. I do have a brother, sister and several friends who are Teachers and am very aware of their work schedules. Teachers do not have the easiest jobs but they don't rank in the top 500 most difficult either. Just about any job where you work the entire year would be considered more difficult.
independentview1 1 year ago
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MarquisdeBarrabas Well to give you a fair chance to understand our education system and why we need to pay people according to ability, you first need to understand that the school system is not supposed to be controlled by govt. but by the community where it resides. That means no outside influence from the the govt., Next on that list is the fact that higher paid teachers does not equal better educated children. Third is that although teaching is hard, it is a job that has a lot of perks.
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology those perks are part of the problem. Although a teacher can be fired often as not they are left alone and continue to be paid a salary that they are not really earning. If you know that your students must perform at a certain level you will be more apt to make sure they learn what you are teaching and you will have earned your paycheck. Even though teachers take their work home with them, and have for decades, our children are not able to compete academically in the world arena..
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology and yet teachers from far poorer nations that pay less than we pay our teachers here are scoring higher that our best school here. So you tell me who is doing their job and who's not. BTW MarquisdeBarrabas your comment to me essentially you have said that inner city kids were not as smart as other kids. You are the one who should use your head and think before you speak. Or wait use the education you have to get it right and know that location does not determine intelligence!
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology I appreciate your rambling.
Thank you for sharing.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
@independentview1 It goes to show you don't know anything about teaching. Salaries are very dependent on experience and most teachers - depending on districts - are lucky to make 20k a year. 6 hour work day? Are you retarded? That's just school hours. Try 12-14 hours. You think it's easy to read/grade 30-40 papers? Winter/Spring breaks are usually are usually used for curriculum/test prep. If you're lower rung, summers are unemployment hell and most teachers I know have to find alternate income.
mikepalomino 1 year ago 7
@independentview1 - You must live in the suburbs.
MiranUT 1 year ago
This kind lady is good at rationalizing... I wonder how good she is with handling actual issues. She did a good job of whining and complaining though, she's very good at interviews though.
kinglewisjtl24 1 year ago
@kinglewisjtl24 What about adminstrators? Why aren't principals blamed like educators? And what about superintendents and corrupt school boards? These people grossly mismanage budgets and get away with it. No one says anything.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory Yea... I often group the administrators along with the teachers... I would say the obvious in that... our school's are being mismanaged from the top down which allows bad teachers to stay in position... we need more strict regulations and also time to allow systems to develop... it's so complex...
kinglewisjtl24 1 year ago 3
@USASecretHistory
sorry it took me so long to cb.
principals should be blamed... in fact more so than the educators because the school boards are dumb and get bad superintendents bad principals and bad teachers. who decides on the school boards?
kinglewisjtl24 1 year ago
I would agree with Ms. Lewis that the problem is not those few teachers on the wrong side of the bell curve. The problem is the entire system. The problem is that this is a federal program and like other federal programs, it is an absolute failure. Their cry is – just give them more time and more money.
I say, we pay for what we get. What we get is stealing tax money and supporting a failed job creation scheme.
iknownothingnow 1 year ago
That being said, shes a deflectionist (to a degree) the socio-economics do play a major role in education
JaCorBoar 1 year ago
Anyone notice the correlation between decline of America and black people getting voting rights in 1960s?
xardas711 1 year ago
@xardas711 how bigotted - the decline of america has everything to do with the prevalence of the Military Industrial Complex and the bullshit false economy.
JaCorBoar 1 year ago 2
@JaCorBoar
You hit the nail right on the head.
boosuff 1 year ago 2
@xardas711 Actually the more relevant correlation is mother's leaving home. This put tremendous downward pressure on wages and left an equally tremendous void in the home.
Women were sold a bill of goods when they were told they needed to be employed outside the home to have value as a human being and America has paid the price.
agent70x7 1 year ago
@xardas711 I didn't know black people were the reason for the great depression either?
sidittygal 1 year ago
actually yes it was.... if blacks were made into slaves again, it would really boost the GDP
xardas711 1 year ago
@xardas711 Why don't whites become slaves then?
sidittygal 1 year ago
@sidittygal
because they are already working and contributing to GDP... most blacks sit around and feed off the welfare system
xardas711 1 year ago
@xardas711
Stop looking for excuse to express your racism, or maybe is just ignorance.
Poor people live off welfare. There are more whites on welfare than blacks but percentage-wise there are more blacks on welfare than whites. It's also important to note that 25% of the black race lives below poverty line while less than 10% of the white race does
sansez 1 year ago
Did anyone else notice that she never even tried to answer any of the questions that he put forward? lol
scipio2009 1 year ago
@scipio2009 She was largely on the defensive. This profession has been under assault for the past two decades. If you listen with an open mind she's actually right. But she smaller class size, experienced teachers, and constant resources working with students. Firing people is a quick fix. And honestly if we actually did fire all those "bad teacher", who's going to replace them? But we have no problem promoting failure in the private sector and the military. That's okay.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago 3
@USASecretHistory My only criticism of that is that you can't just call for smaller classrooms, "experienced teachers", and constant resources, without offering some sort of concession. Not sure what the statutes are in other states, but I believe California has a mandates of 24 students per class being the high-water mark.
You can't just say, for example, that you want that number to go down to 20, hold on to more and more "tenured" teachers, and not give anything up. Makes no sense.
scipio2009 1 year ago
@scipio2009 The point is I have seen classrooms with 12 kids in upper class society. I've seen it on TV. You can't solve this problem when this inequity exists. California is a joke. If you look at the date school funding was negatively impacted by Proposition 13 in the 70s. This was the era of "White Flight." They didn't want their kids going to school with minorities.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory So, are you then trying to argue that school funding should be increased to the point where class size is HALVED without calling for a single concession from teachers? Honestly?
scipio2009 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory If the teachers unions came to the table and said that they were willing to work on developing a fair assessment for teachers, with administrators and "data checkers who know nothing", I'd hope that a comparative concession would be to see funding free up a bit, to get class sizes to 21-22, from 24 students, in addition to additional tools to help those teachers who need the assistance to learn their craft.
scipio2009 1 year ago
@scipio2009 Follow the money. Principals and school boards do whatever they want with the money. LAUSD was given enough money by the federal government last year so they wouldn't have to let go of any teachers. You know something they ended up spending half of the money in the first year and the rest in the second year. So they got rid of several hundreds of teachers. They are corrupt. There are many cases of nepotism in this district that has a $7 billion budget.
USASecretHistory 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory And if the principals and school boards would committ to moving away from their "nepotism", in a meaningful way, would you then commit to the believed concession that the teacher's unions ought to come to the table and figure out some kind of fair assessment for teachers?
To me, that would make a lot of sense.
scipio2009 1 year ago
@USASecretHistory yes she is right and as a Education major and future student I think think she was on point considering High end Testing and No child Left behind. Obama should know better how awful and flawed No Child Left behind. Her whole point was that its up to the Student as Well as the Teacher which is 100% truth.
jrpone 1 year ago
we should teach cooperation instead competition we should teach how to exercise all of their RIGHTS and truth about world history isn't it ?
THEINFOCELL 1 year ago
Don't you understand where this is all heading? It's heading to privatization of schools, schools run by companies, which is happening already. Eventually, it will be children LIVING at their schools to ensure proper nutrition, not bringing home problems into the school setting, etc. Kids will only come home for one or two short breaks every year. Sad, but that's what it is coming to.
xander7ful 1 year ago 2
Making education "Teacher-proof." Well said.
ginesdepasamonte 1 year ago 3
@ginesdepasamonte again if you want to remove the teacher proof problem... get rid of the federal govt. involvement. They are the problem. The money spent on education per child is so appalling that I am disgusted. I received a far better education than my kids are getting and when I went to school the average cost per student was just under 4,000.00 per student. So is federal money really needed? NO WAY!! What we need are teachers that are getting it right and less federal govt. involvement.
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology I think the solution may be someplace that we have not been looking for it enough. Our system has not evolved as rapidly as has our reality. We keep adding subjects and perspectives and scholarship in almost every area has become quite dynamic but, we keep evaluating as though we were still in the master/apprentice dynamic. We ask educators to be scholars, pedagogues, and evaluators. And we ask them to do it all in the same time frame. I think that is what needs to change.
ginesdepasamonte 1 year ago
sounds like a teacher with a lot of excuses to me
psychientology 1 year ago
Use all the same thing she's saying and replace teacher with "banker". It takes a few years for a banker to hit their stride. Some bankers have a bad year. It's not the banker thats at fault it's the environment they are in. We should make sure all the bankers go through due process first. Even if it takes a decade.
I'm sure all of these things are true. But when I hear someone blame everything but themselves, I know something is rotten.
sirellyn 1 year ago
@sirellyn - Research shows the no. 1 determing factor of success in learning is the teacher. But you can't ignore the dysfunctional social system the Americans have. To compare bankers and teachers is insane. Education should never be treated like banking or sales or any other competitive field. It is much more organic. Look at Finland: They do not use a competition model and they have a sucessful education system (parents also regard themselves as partners in education).
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT If the number 1 determining factor of learning success is the teacher, why in the world would you give a teacher so many "breaks"?
They are having a bad year, give them a break. They punched a student in the face, give them a break. They showed up to work drunk again, give them a break.
99% of other profession would fire a worker for such behavior to ensure quality of product.
So you argue that the quality of a burger is more important than the quality of a child's education?
sirellyn 1 year ago
@sirellyn - punched a student? showed up to work drunk? If you think that's what I'm advocating, there's no reason to continue a conversation with you. "...the quality of a burger is more important than the quality of a child's education?" WTF?
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT If you think you are creating a quality education system by paying people only by seniority and making it nearly impossible to fire people for poor performance, you would understand quality doesn't factor into education.
I'm saying that more quality control goes into workers at a burger joint, and that's a very sad statement.
If you don't understand how risk/adversity and success are linked, then you are right, there's no point in continuing the conversation.
sirellyn 1 year ago
@sirellyn - "paying people only by seniority and making it nearly impossible to fire people for poor "? Where'd I write that? If you could read, you'd understand my points.
If risk/adversity led to success in education, the inner city kids in the US would be out-performing Asia & Northern Europe. You need to rethink using a business model for education. It's already being proven that it doesn't work (charter schools). Cooperation is much more effective in learning; the sciences prove that.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT Risk and adversity for teachers JOBS. Inner city schools would be the best if the lousy ones were allowed to fail. People were allowed to decide where to put their money.
They'd send their kids to the best of the lousiest. But it would get overfull.
In short order others would figure they could do at least as good as that still
crappy school. And then others. until you have only good or great schools
competing for kids.
sirellyn 1 year ago
@sirellyn - You think parents’d send their kids to the better school? They’d only be sending them one that marketed itself better. The US has experimented w/ free choice for 20 years: charter schools. Only a minority of them provide a better education than traditional schools.
Do you know the typical profile of a teacher in the inner city? Do you understand the social problems interfering with education? No. If you did, you would not be claiming competition is the salvation of the US system.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@sirellyn - Currently, inner city schools compete for teachers, not the other way around. Suburban WASPs come in to teach a year or two to kids they have absolutely no way to identify with (might as well be speaking a foreign language), if they can take it then flee back to the burbs. How would your competition model fix that?
MiranUT 1 year ago
@sirellyn
Well, teaching is about 10,000,000 times more difficult than banking.
You can manage accounts from a blackberry sitting in the tub, while teachers actually have to go in every day and teach...
micahgee 1 year ago 2
@micahgee I have no love of bankers, but are you suggesting payment and treatment based on difficulty? I should injure myself to get paid more?
People choose jobs themselves partially based on difficulty and leave them for that reason too. They can also change jobs too. They stay often because pay for public sector is better than 95% of private sector, plus benefits. Add to that it's nearly impossible to fire them, it's a recipe for a lot who don't really care mixed with some who do.
sirellyn 1 year ago
Teaching is a hard job, my father was a teacher for more than 20 years and dealing with problem kids, freaked out parents and dysfunctional principals is not an easy thing but he did it because he thought it was important. Everyone who has ever gone to school knows a teacher who was a total asshole and conservatives generally treat teachers as if they were all assholes who need to be beaten into submission. The truth is teachers care, or they wouldn't be there. So show some respect.
blackiron60 1 year ago 4
@blackiron60 I agree that teaching is a hard job. However... we seem to forget a very serious problem that is occurring. The problem is that the teachers who are getting it right and sticking to their beliefs and really teaching their students are not as great in numbers as they once were. I had a teacher that I can honestly say was one of the strictest teachers I had ever known, but one of the best I have ever know right up till today. So my respect is given to the teachers that get it right.
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@blackiron60 Very well said, blackiron60. It's true that some teachers are just negligent, others have thrown in the towel, but most teachers care a lot more than students and parents give them credit for.
The reason why right-wingers look down on teachers is simple: they respect money, power and status, they do not respect work. So it doesn't matter how hard you work, as a school teacher you are going to get no respect from them.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
@blackiron60 My whole family is made up of teachers. Dad, uncles, aunts even sister! Of course teaching is hard. In fact at times it's brutal. But you said it yourself, teachers are there because they care and want to be. So if they wouldn't give up through 45 years of student abuse why the heck do you think they'd just give up because their school was closed down or they were fired?
You need both factors. I love the sunny days but understand without rain, I'm just living in a desert.
sirellyn 1 year ago
I blame the powers that be. They have been weakening the public schools for 40 years . Corporations would love the new market of private schools funded by the tax payer . Yup....all the money could be funneled right to the ceo and corporate executives. On top of our tax money going to the corp. ....we can also pay a tuition and the people who cant afford it , well they can work in the fields . Sounds like we are building a third world country for our selves.
bonnevie9 1 year ago 3
@bonnevie9 - Yup. You are exactly right! Last year's CREDO report shows that most of the charter schools are performing the same or worse than public school. Only 20% show any significant improvement. Yet the admin for those schools make 3x that of public schools.
The US public system/sector = reward for poor performance. No wonder everyone is sinking to the bottom.
MiranUT 1 year ago
If American students are well educated and successful, who's going to be left to fight the empire's wars?
WellIAMScottish 1 year ago 4
"they have to have data, 'cause they don't know anything else."
so true
MetaCraken 1 year ago
Our education sucks because our society sucks. This lady is so right to ridicule the idea that education is something that only happens in a school building.
I had some of the worst teachers imaginable in my time at high school but fucking hell if this scapegoating of teachers isn't the most disgusting shit I've ever seen.
truefakeness 1 year ago 5
she is a microcosm of the US school system...fat and unhealthy and running at the mouth
mike6459 1 year ago
If this woman is the best and brightest of chicago's teachers then i'm a little worried. All we need is money,money,money money, cause its worked so well in the past right.
JHGesus 1 year ago
@JHGesus - Agreed. Chicago schools graduate 50% of their students - if that gives you any idea!
But she makes one good point about the social conditions in urban areas. The US war on inner cities (i.e. the drug war) is probably the number factor in this mess. Most urban schools have very high drop out rates.
MiranUT 1 year ago 2
@MiranUT -Agreed. But the inner city conditions are only there because we've exported all the labor out of this country and now no work is left for people. When all the money is made in the financial sector there is no use for the people who fill these cities. How the government handles it might be saddening, but at the core i think the incredible wealth and power of corporations is to blame. The government doesn't want restless poor, and that what you get when you've exported all their jobs.
JHGesus 1 year ago 2
OK I have to comment here because she is half right and half wrong. First and foremost... STOP creating sub levels of learning for kids. We had a higher level of learning ability 50 years ago in the US than we do today. We didn't separate kids into all these sub groups of ability back then. Secondly... it is a FACT that more money pumped into the schools doesn't mean better educated kids. So there should be a rating system for pay for teachers based on how their students test.
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology also teachers need to stop letting the federal govt. get involved in how they teach. The education of our children is the responsibility of the community and state where they reside. The federal govt. has violated our rights by being involved in education. They have overstepped their constitution powers and we have let them. KICK them out of the process. Lastly if teachers were paid based on performance rather than salary schedules then you would see better teachers & students.
JnRTechnology 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology It should be the other way around.
Pay teachers more if they work with challenging kids who do not score well in tests.
There is no shortage of teachers for rich kids.
The real problem is the vast majority of schools which have an ever increasing load.
Smaller classes and beginning quality education earlier work, both cost money as it requires paying people enough to do the job... else you just get substandard low pay teachers.
Also teachers need better & continuer training too.
marsCubed 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology: "based on how their students test. "
We've had that for a decade. It's called No Child Left Behind. Testing is not the answer. The education system is antiquated. If Obama was a true leader, he would be reinventing education to prepare kids for the digital age - and, IMO, that means the kids should be doing art, dance and more creative learning in primary school. As naturally curious creatures, kids should LOVE school. Few do.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@MiranUT
Public School consists of almost entirely short-term memorization for standardized tests something I saw increasingly growing up aka uneducation.
In terms of the digital age, math, chemistry and physics seem far more relevant for a scientific age. I'm not trying to knock art and dance per se, but art and dance are not going to help create the new technologies to allow the US to remain economically competitive
The bottom line is public school literally turns off kids from learning IMO
micahgee 1 year ago
@micahgee - With all due respect, the creative arts are needed even more b/c of the digital age. We need more creativity. I use computers in my field (language education) and am grateful for my art background!
We're creating dysfuntion by focusing almost entirely on reading & math. 20% of US primaries don't have art class! Students minds would work better with more art, music and dance. I don't see how chemistry & physics, although important, help prepare kids for the digital age.
MiranUT 1 year ago
@JnRTechnology 'So there should be a rating system for pay for teachers based on how their students test.'
Meaning a great teacher at a ghetto school will end up being paid less than a mediocre teacher at an affluent school.
Please people, think before you speak.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
@MarquisdeBarrabas So you are you saying that inner city kids are stupid because they live in the inner city. That's exactly the kind of assumptions that have doomed millions of kids that Teachers labled as dumb just because the kid happens to live in the city. Thanks for adding evidence to the argument that many times it's the Teachers that hold back the students.
independentview1 1 year ago
@independentview1 No, I'm saying that kids who grow up in poor neighbourhoods and deprived households do not have access to many learning resources nor are their parents as prepared to help them with school work, and are therefore more likely to do worse than kids who enjoy these advantages, the quality of teaching being the same.
And I'm saying this because I've found it to be true both as a student and a teacher in poor and affluent schools.
Again, think before you speak.
MarquisdeBarrabas 1 year ago
@MarquisdeBarrabas - Poverty is a major factor. Excellent comments above.
I'll add that the number of minority teachers has not kept up with the demographics of the US. A good teacher has to be able to relate to his/her students, and the Wasps coming out of the university system have a hard time doing that in urban schools.
MiranUT 1 year ago
I blame the dept of education.. Garbage in Garbage out.
Squirelbutt 1 year ago
Amen sister. Damn, she just slapped down all of their strawman arguments in almost one shot. Thank goodness their are still people out there like her bitch slapping America at large with the reality of our public education system.
bigge525 1 year ago 2
Great lady. Thanks for that interview.
InTheSticks1881 1 year ago 3
As someone who has come from public schools in June, she is absolutely correct. I have had many teachers I have hated but I cannot say that I have had a teacher that was "bad" per se. A lot of my frustrations come from the system itself especially after our Superintendent made massive budgit cuts to our music program while having a giant staff in the main district offices getting paid large salaries. The problem comes from above the schools, not within.
helios5868 1 year ago
Teachers are NOT teaching anymore. My daughter is being taught the lessons by ME. She basically goes to school every day to obtain the lessons, comes home with no idea how to do the work, then I am left with the responsibility of making sure she understands it. Karen Lewis hit it perfectly.
thalonelygirl 1 year ago 2
A bad year? In the real world we call it incompetence.
tarossi400 1 year ago
@tarossi400 So if someone gets a tough bunch of students, THEIR incompetent? ...or what about a family tragedy, hmm?
What real world are you in?
helios5868 1 year ago 2
@helios5868 The world in which you don't get to perform poorly at your job for a WHOLE FUCKING YEAR and keep your job.
You're going to find out soon enough when you enter the work force. Good luck.
tarossi400 1 year ago
@tarossi400 - A bad year doesn't mean they performed poorly. Some teachers can give a great performance & still have a bad year. And it does take a few years (if not a decade) to become a great teacher. Much like being a doctor: You don't come out of med school and "perform great". That's why they call it a medical practice!
You can't treat education like sales quotas. They've been doing that for 10 years; it doesn't work. There're some areas in life where the "competition" model doesn't work.
MiranUT 1 year ago 2
Our education system is a complete failure and a waste of tax payers money
the teachers union clearly has a marxist agenda and needs to be shut down
MrGAB4444 1 year ago
It's either the kids or the teachers.
The kids? Yep, the kids.
flimflamman 1 year ago
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@flimflamman NO ITS THE PARENTS
paintandillustrate 1 year ago
the only thing she teaches kids is to be a fat bitch.
FarangBalls 1 year ago
22 years survived teaching in public schools, several in the poverty areas of Los Angeles. Finally had to escape to work with adult foreign language concentration.
IMO, this woman is at least 90% on target. The best teachers leave worn out. It's not so much bad teachers. The system has been assemblylined. Tme kids were really placed first. That means money for reduced class size. It means each child must be given individual help to catch up. Mostly it means stop paying for wars; help kids.
mahdatonta 1 year ago 8
teachers have been responsible for allowing the system to dumb down the kids.. the less they can do the better they like it..
navtel 1 year ago
@navtel - parents have done the same. Education should be a partnership between home and school. Unfortunately, everyone's pointing their fingers at each other and blaming the other.
The best point made in this vid was about the social problems affecting education. Mom's in jail for marijuana possesion or she's working a puts the kids in daycare (where someone is stupid enough to mix up windshield wiper fluid with kool aid) - can't teach her kids colors, shapes or the ABCs.
MiranUT 1 year ago
End COMPULSORY EDUCATION !
Leave it to the parents to decide.
Of course, the public teachers want people to be forced to go to school so the State has an excuse to tax people and pay them an inflated salary.
asperin 1 year ago
i teach at a private university and a attended catholic elementary and secondary school, so i don't have any real insight into k-12 public education; that said, teachers have to be able to react to individual student's needs if nothing else. that means smaller classes which automatically means more $.
WikeddTung 1 year ago 4
This teacher should debate John Stossel.
gauharjk 1 year ago 2
@gauharjk
Or debate Tom Woods Jr better yet.
asperin 1 year ago
How about this....hockey players are paid millions and they fucking go around a fuckin' puck for your enjoymen while you say to your kid "Go watch t.v." Teachers are paid shit and their purpose is to fuckin' teach some education and some insight beginnings in your child brain because the parents are fuckin' occupied to go to work to pay the fuckin' morgage. So, who's been paid too much?
usergently 1 year ago 4
i hate teachers all they do is power trip and try to dominate children. Thats how they train kids to be weak and fold like oragami to authority fuck the public indoctrination system
MentalReserve 1 year ago
Teachers are also one if not the only profession which does not require CEU's. That is thanks to their unions !
hobo59 1 year ago
the behaviors from the children are never discussed. private schools kick them out. public schools learn to cope and work with these kids.
LouieArrighi 1 year ago 2
We are not bashing the teachers. The problem is with the union leadership and the political agenda that they are indoctrinating into the teachers and the next generation. Pumping more money into the system as it exists now is a waste in most cases. The cameras should be pulled off the intersections and installed in every classroom. Look at the test scores globally....more money spent....less results.
funwidude 1 year ago
Obama doesn't care about poor people.
youngbuck189 1 year ago 7
the educational system is an indoctrinational system. why do we expect teachers and schools to teach our children? that's the role of a parent.
peacerebelgirl 1 year ago
The educational program was created by the Rockerfeller's and other fuckers of the bank's evil assholes, what do you expect wen teachers do their real jobs... like TEACHING.
usergently 1 year ago 3
But they put more money in classrooms. Of course she says its not the Unions fault. She is the President. Hahahaha!
AJSensei 1 year ago
@AJSenseI I think you need to watch the video again you are obviously confused! Karen Lewis is saying that the public schools are underfunded and the school test results are being used in the wrong way.This is not just about unions but also poor political leadership in education.
moviequeen2008 1 year ago 2
@moviequeen2008 Let's think of this. My father of course is from a different time but he was educated in a 1 room school house. They could teach outside. They could get creative. Many times they want to privatize the public school system or they want to give vouchers to kids. Oh I agree its poor political leadership. They also don't really want to change things. If they did they would think outside the box.
AJSensei 1 year ago 2
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@AJSensei Go back to your american Idol shit, sheep!. Wake the fuck up or you will be left behind.
usergently 1 year ago