Empyre Pro Series - Smokeless Wood Gasification Demo

[leamyelectricinc1]

very cool.

[tjet55]

@ThisWarmHouse Is there a way you can use this 'liquid wood gas' as fuel for your car? Does it have to be distilled or undergo treatment? Or would I have to put a full gasifier unit on my vehicle?

[ThisWarmHouse]

@tjet55 It only stays in a gaseous state while it's above approximately 1200 degrees F, so unfortunately there is no practical way to store for use in another machine. We have heard of people putting gasification units in their vehicles, but it's not something that we do.

[DJNIKKO9c1]

I have a 10 year old Empyre II and I love it. I have been told it should last at least 20 years. However, I have a neighbor that bought a gasification Green Wood boiler like yours last t 2 years ago. He HATES IT. He said it was impossible to keep the fire going, it was always going out. In fact, he didn 't even light it up this winter 2010/2011. He drained the system of water, and it just sat there gathering dust. Are these new boilers really that much trouble?

[avianphlu5397]

@DJNIKKO9c1 the greenwood system was designed as a passive gasification system without the blower, thats why it went out all the time, these active systems dont do that.

[iwantosavemoney]

well i think is a nice system but i have a question im building a house and would like to now if it is posable to put one of these in the house or in the basement or would it put off to much heat in the summer thanks of all the information i would all so like to now who much power is watts or KW that your system needs to run im looking to build a off grid house and the information would be great to now thanks

thecheapguy

[reynoldj2]

I have not seriously considered an oudoor wood burning furnace previously only because of ineffecient burning, thus smoke. Many municipalities in Ontario have bylaws that ban them. Environmental preachers have said that you just cannot build a wood fire in a steel box, surrounded by water, and have it burn efficiently. This unit is encouraging! What happens when the unit goes dormant, ie. shuts fan down after reaching desired water temperature? Again, I am concerned mainly about smoke.

[fondness1012]

These units are pigs when it comes to wood required to keep the process going! Burn the wood clean they might but the amount of heat discharged up the chiminey is a literal waste!! These unit are not efficient whatsover and like ALL woodstoves put usefull heat out the chiminey when it can be recycled through a mass heat storage before being vented outside!!

A truly efficient system has stack exit temperatures slightly above room temperatures showing you have used all the heat internally!!

[ThisWarmHouse]

@fondness1012 If you're interested in mass heat storage systems for wood, watch our video on the GARN. It only burns for several hours a day and is surrounded by 1500 gallons of water giving it a THERMAL efficiency rating of 85% in addition to combustion efficiency in the 90's. As far as flu temperatures are concerned, we could set the system up to have a flu temp of room temperature, but it would allow water condensation. Having a flu temp between 200-300f is much better for your system life.

[avianphlu5397]

@fondness1012 unfortunately, most hot water base board heating systems were designed around 180 degree F water temperatures. You would have to build the house around the boiler to achieve what you are saying. so this boiler is designed to replace the existing oil burner with 180 supply and 160 degree return.

[OVAT131174]

can you take the gases to a internal combustion engine like a electric generator to produce electricity?

[ThisWarmHouse]

@OVAT131174 This furnace is designed strictly for hydronic use (heating water). There have been a number of somewhat successful attempts at creating a wood gas engine, but it's difficult to do efficiently.

[OVAT131174]

can you adapt a stirling engine to generate electricity?

[ThisWarmHouse]

@OVAT131174 We've heard a lot of people talk about it and say that it is theoretically possible, but to our knowledge no one has ever done it.

[99cachorro]

i've always seen these outdoor units smoking heavily.  I'm sure most people don't burn these units correctly

[boilermaker52]

Sorry boys and girls. You'll never convince me. I've put several outdoor wood boilers in and they're commonly known in these parts as "wood whores". They burn twice as much as a normal wood boiler would. Gasification or not, the more complicated the machine, the more expensive the fix and the harder to get parts.

[fondness1012]

@boilermaker52 You are so right!! Exit flue temps are a literal waste of heat which could be used internaly!!

[Xarius2010]

sims2bavaroTd i was wondering that myself, we currently have the centeral boiler unit (Classic CL 6048 and our neighbor's have the pallet burner also from central boiler). I was looking into these greenwoods because its supposed to use upto 60% less wood which trust me would be very nice, as we go through an absolute ton of wood. But im skeptical, i mean 60% less wood than what...an open fire?

[Tjita1]

What's the music, btw? I have been trying to find out..

[sims2bavaroTd]

im in scott township pa 15 min from scranton. where is a good place to see these? Why go with greenwood over a Central Boiler?

[HISandman]

also keeping it outside will allow for more usable space in your home or shop.

[Tjita1]

Is it supposed to be outdoors, or is it just there for demonstration purposes?

[HISandman]

these are outdoor furnaces. They are plumed or ducted into the house either underground or through insulated fixtures. A nice one like this is awesome but some people have the older versions that smoke allot. Because they are outdoors there are less restrictions on chimney height. So your older furnace will draw complaints from your neighbors.

[Tjita1]

Ah. In Sweden I don't think we have outdoor furnaces, actually. Having a long brick chimney in the center of the house and the furnace in the basement gives residual heat in the chimney to the house, and also you don't have to go outdoors to put in wood and so on, so it seems, at a glance, like a somewhat stupid idea.. There are good, lambda controlled furnaces that don't smoke for indoor use too...

[HISandman]

The outdoor furnace is for a quick fix if your place can't hold a traditional wood fired furnace. Also it allows you to keep your wood mess outside rather than drag wood into the home. You can keep your wood furnace close to your wood shed or even "in" your wood shed. that would allow you to handle your wood less than bringing it into your home. In the right situation.. it's a perfect heating solution.

[Tjita1]

I certainly get your points, still I wouldn't want to go out in -20°C to light a fire when I realise the storage tanks are running low. There's also the risk of sabotage.

[EdAsthma]

Homophobe.

[GoReps]

You Twat! That's because I happen to be a female. I have asthma. The smoke has forced me out of my house. This is an injustice and I have friends. It is wrong and I will keep fighting.

[EdAsthma]

Someone is looking for help with an air quality problem on their property, and your response is to spew homophobic hate speech. I don't exactly see the correlation, or the point. However, your comments tell a lot about the kind of person YOU are.

[GoReps]

Whatever. Aspen Boilers still suck.

[910Rayzor]

I have the same unit as in the video and am very happy with it, Heats the house and water very well. Problem is that the air vents are on the bottom, under the wood, of the furnace and get clogged with small pieces of ash that have not burned enough to fall thru. This causes the fire to be in a smolder mode and not very efficient. By the way - the 10 year warranty is on the fire box only - none of the moving parts, electronics, etc are covered. Found out the hard way ....

[fondness1012]

@910Rayzor Take the temperature of your exit flue gases and tell me what your temp is! I betcha its in the range of 400 degrees or higher! You are loosin all that heat when it can be recycled back in a mass thermal system!! These units are not efficient whatsover! They are garbage....like all woodstoves!!!

[GoReps]

This is not a wood boiler promotion web site. In fact, I highly recommend BOYCOTTING ASPEN and any other companies who make dangerous products.

[sasop117]

so dos the secondary burner combust the traped partials of carbon in the exhaust gasses?

Just out of interest, do you know the temp (sorry can't spell temprector) of the exhaust gasses of a average wood burning stove?

[definca]

This outdoors or inside barn or shop wood heat pump is a wonderful design. I am not sure how long they have been around but they certainly are increasing the efficiency and cleanliness of burning wood as a fuel and resource. The gasification combustion is such a fantastic design 1500 - 2000 degree combustion for wood is the way it should be and hopefully will allow us to use wood independently from utility companies. Impressive clean up on the stack after load ! Great Vid ! Thanks

[honeybees1]

I have wood gas boiler made by Tarm USA a much higher quality boiler from what I can see from this vid.Having said that Gasification is great my home is toasty warm all winter long.Peace

[westhilldesignbuild]

BUYER BEWARE!!!!!!!

FYI everyone. Greenwood is out of business as of 3/31/09.

The Aspen was actually made by a company in Manitoba. They refused to do business with Greenwood early this year. They will still make the boiler on their own.

After 2 years of fighting with Greenwood to fix my Model 100, greenwood slipped out the back door before refunding my money leaving me $7k in the hole and with a useless boiler. MIserable people who hopefully never do business again.

[ThisWarmHouse]

Hi Everyone, Mark here - the creator of the video... I understand the Greenwood dilemma and worry too for many businesses today - even GM and Chrysler. Regarding the Aspen Series 175 and 350 - no real problem - just a hiccup, as I announced here 1 month ago, the Pro Series 200 and 400 are the OE/Manufacturers solution to our market as they (Pro-Fab) made them for Greenwood to market and sell. As for your GW 100, many are happy when they just back to the basics of hydronic design and good fuel.

[jstatrck]

How many face cords of wood is everyone burning? I heat 2100 sf and want to be able to heat my attached dbl garage when I want to work out in the garage. How many cords would I be looking at burning Thanks in advance

[a2zhandi]

if I had to guess, it be at least 10 full cords. So I think 6 face cords to a full cord? 6face x 10full= blisters,raw shoulder, and aching back ;) Been there done that.

AlsoTaken into consideration of 8 months of winter. Help ya?

[ZEROPOINT132]

Hi. you could you could use that smoke out the chimney back into the fire for the first 30 Min's.

And why not have a water jacket around the chimney to use that 300 degrees waste heat.

cheers

[ThisWarmHouse]

Your points are in concept possible but this is already a "condensing furnace" with "non-condensing technologies". In other words - we have to run hot before we run clean. We also need to be in an affordable price range - an important "sweet-spot" for business and happy customers that afforded the unit. The price would likely rise 40-50% to move efficiencies up 10-15% to 95 plus% efficiency. Thanks!

[ThisWarmHouse]

It's vital that the stack always stay above 300 - otherwise condensation will form.

[bamed10]

Are these good for applications where the overall demand for heat is low, such as a house where no one is home most of the day and the daytime temperature is set down pretty low compared to evening temps?

[saddleup47]

hi, is it true that you have to replace the burner pot in 10 years?

[ThisWarmHouse]

haven't heard of such. It is all replaceable ... maybe you heard the warranty was 10 years. My Weil-McLain boiler is 20 years old (as a backup) but has only a 1 year warranty. I was fine with that. ... hope this helps.

[DBKFR]

I have been told that a aspen 175 will not heat a 4000 square ft house. EPA rates it at 66,000 BTU and was wondering about cleaning the ports or tubes inside. I hear it has to be done very often. Would just like to hear from someone who has one.

[ThisWarmHouse]

The EPA was testing for emissions not BTU rating. The ASTM will level the playing field for output and efficiency SOON. My experience is that this unit can sustain a 110,000 BTU output for 8 hours. It CAN put out 230,000 BTU for a commercial situation (where staffing is available to add fuel [wood, briquettes or seasoned wood chips] every 4-5 hours). Sooo obviously this unit is limited by firebox size hence the derated 110,000 to get 8 hrs for the average homeowner. I will have to continue...

[ThisWarmHouse]

Regarding the 4000 sqft - it depends on whether you are in South Carolina or Northern NY - We service these extremes with over 1000 homes. Our technical staff can do a heat loss analysis for a small fee but roughly - I wouldn't want to heat more than 2000 sqft in Lake Placid if poor-fair insulation or more than 6000 sqtf in Hilton Head if well insulated so there are our extremes (roughly!). I clean the tubes every 8 weeks but we burn 18 month seasoned wood. Respect any gasifier with good fuel.

[ThisWarmHouse]

Profab now has the Pro Series 200 (same as 175) and the Pro Series 400. For 4000 sqft you might be happier with the 400 but again - much goes into the sizing. See our web site for these sizes. Hope all this helps. Thanks!

[creamcar]

If you need more BTU output, you could also take a look at the central boiler e classic. It has 3 times the BTU output per the EPA tests. I have been operating this unit for the past year and I am pleased with the operation. There is a bit of learning that needs to take place to optimize the burn process.

[DrewDawg50]

Would that be the best way to heat a greenhouse during winter?

[jdrab9er]

Awesome! I have a Natures Comfort brand here in WV. I don't mind the smoke it puts out, however it isn't very efficient due to the wasted smoke. Good thing i don't live in bucks county anymore! My stove is probably outlawed up there... Which is BS.

[jonzboat]

would you recomend a aspen? I am thinking of buying one. any problems with it? or any sugestions? jon

[ThisWarmHouse]

If you're looking for a stand alone outdoor wood burner, I would say the Aspen is the way to go. We have had that one in the video running constantly this season and have continually been impressed by it. All of our customers who installed them have been very happy as well.

[jonzboat]

we just became a dealer for greenwood stoves so I am getting one for myself. see how they run.thanks jon

[ThisWarmHouse]

Great! We have been a dealer for over 3 years. We are in PA. where are you located?

[jonzboat]

lakewood wisconsin about 90miles north west of green bay. go bears! jon

[UTubeGlennAR]

Nice......

About time isn't it....

a. Do you need a water heat storage battery with this unit?

b. Is this unit designed as a 24/7 burning unit or ???

[ThisWarmHouse]

The Aspen design incorporates a built-in water / heat storage buffer of 75 gallons and is a continuous burn appliance. We've been using it every day for over 3 weeks now and love it's consistent performance, low wood consumption and clean burn.

[vandrewlongstrider]

I still can't believe how quickly it transitions to the clean burn!

[djeror]

Cool video. Hot stove. Warm House

[gburtscher]

Wow! This is quite something! Especially when considering that the boiler seems to be brand new and never lit before?

[ThisWarmHouse]

Thanks, and that is true, it really was the first time we fired it up! We were very impressed by it.

[WorldStove]

Wonderful video. A little window on the lower door would be way fun.

[ThisWarmHouse]

Your right! That is a good idea. That chamber is the key to it's clean burn, as it gets up to almost 2000 degrees in there!

[omamagirl]

Great video! I can't believe how the smoke goes away when you say it's going to go away. Hot furnace!

[ThisWarmHouse]

Mark has had a lot of experience with downdraft gasifiers and amazed us all with his ability to predict the performance of the Aspen.