God is the Father and Jesus is the Son. All who are saved are IN Christ, and thus, sons and daughters of God in Christ. But who is the Holy Spirit? The, "divine uncle?" My point is this -- every relationship with Himself that God reveals speaks of a family relationship. Except for the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is NOT a Person. Look up the Greek of John 14 through 16. The pronouns HE and WHOM that refer to the HS could just as easily be translated IT or THAT ONE.
Spirit and that these three are one? people can believe what they want and that is their choice, but i tell you, there are not 3 distinct individuals in the Godhead, the name of the Father, the name of the Son, and the name of the Holy Spirit are one and the same and the name of all three is Jesus Christ.
trinity of Gods that would not all lay their life on the line for me. you see, Jesus was God in the flesh, God and the Holy Spirit are both Spirits and we cannot see Spirits, the only visible face of God was Jesus Christ. in the beginning Jesus was God Lord of all creation, in the new testament He was God in redemption, and He comes to us now as the Holy Spirit. so all three are one. doesn't that one scripture say that their are 3 that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy
for those who claim that the Trinity is true must be confused, i mean ok, according to Trinitarians, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit or co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal. ok, if they were why then would one Jesus pray to another God if He was equal to Him? if they were equal, why then would one die on the cross and the others forsake Him? so according to Trinitarians not all members of the Godhead gave their life for us, only one did right? well i am sorry, i would not want to worship a
for those who claim that the Trinity is true must be confused, i mean ok, according to Trinitarians, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit or co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal. ok, if they were why then would one Jesus pray to another God if He was equal to Him? if they were equal, why then would one die on the cross and the others forsake Him? so according to Trinitarians not all members of the Godhead gave their life for us, only one did right? well i am sorry, i would not want to worship a
if JESUS is the SON of GOD only, what therefore is being mentioned in ISAIAH 9:6 that Jesus is the everlasting FATHER??? we both agree that there is only ONE FATHER THAT EXISTS and that is GOD THE FATHER, so then why JESUS is the EVERLASTING FATHER in the prophesy of isaiah?
@stal0201 -In Isaiah 9.6, Jesus is the everlasting FATHER because the ONE who is the Father is an other himself of the one who is the SON. This ONE is called Jesus. Thus, the name of Jesus given to the son is the name given to the ONE who is the Father and the Son; a double, but two disctinct persons with their own will, etc. . Now, we know who is the Father: he is the one who is the Son (the Son is his copy, his double, his mirror, his other himself). BibleFrW. net
@stal0201 "everlasting Father" means He who establish the eternity on the earth. The founder of a being ONLY The founder of a being, can be called Father. Ahd He establesh the eternity, that why is called "everlasting Father"
-Jesus is 100 % a man; his Father is 100 % God; they are thus 2 distinct persons. But these 2 different persons are ONE double. So, the Son is not the Father (1 Cor 8.6), he is the Son of God. But the ONE who is the Son is another himself of the ONE who is the Father. I talk about his identity revealed (Luke 10.22). The son had a beginning (Prov 8.24) and he created everything (Col 1.16-17). This is not the traditional doctrine of the Trinity.
-(3: following...) A revealed mystery (Eph 3.6). We are thus reconciled with God by his Son Jesus (Acts 4.12; Jn 14.6; Eph 2.13-18); the Lamb of God died in our place (Jn 1.29) out of love for us (Jn 15.13; Ro 5.8). This Son was born before his creation (Pro 8.22 and 24); he is the angel of the bush (Act 7.38; 1 Cor 10.1-4), because he is a double (a copy) (Jn 1.1), an other himself of the ONE who is a God (Jn 14.9a: "I" and "ME"). This Son, this double became a 100% man (Jn 1.1, 14; Phil 2.7).
-(2: following...) When Jesus died on the cross, this woman (the sheep of Israel) is loosed from this law, from this old covenant of Sinai (Rom 7.1-3); but by his blood, Jesus contracted a new covenant (Luke 22.20 ; Heb 8.8, 13) which allows all those of Israel and nations who repent and convert to God to be forgiven (Mat 26.28; 28.19) on the basis of the substitutionary death of Jesus that we deserved as punishment for our sins(Rom. 6.23; Heb 9.14-17) ...[To follow on (3)]
-(1) Here is the mystery. Mt 15:24: "I (Jesus) am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Why? Because he was still under the law of the old covenant that God has contracted with the sheep of Israel (Galatians 4.4). The angel of God at the burning bush who contracted this covenant was the son before he become flesh (Jn 1.14). Israel was compared to a woman and this God of the bush to her husband (Hosea 3:1-3). ...[To follow on (2)]
- In other words, Jesus is an other himself of the ONE who is the only real God; so, Jesus is the One who is the One, the real and the Only True God.
1 John 5.20: "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." ab BibleFrW. net
-3 distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; each one having his own will, but 3 times the same person. The Son is not the Father, but an OTHER HIMSELF of the ONE who is the Father (a double: Luke 6.12; John 14.9a: “I”, “Me”). The Son has a beginning (Prov 8.22-30; Col 1.15). The ONE who is the Son in "Micah 5.2" is an OTHER HIMSELF of the ONE God who never had a beginning. Knowing who is Jesus we know WHO are the Father (Luke 10.22; John 14.8-9) and the Holy Spirit (John 14.18; 15.26).ab
- Revelation= everything becomes clear. The best explanation is to assume that your name is Peter. Peter wants to create another himself. This other is his special Son; he is an other yourself. You are now 2 distinct persons. Each one has his own will, his thoughts and feelings. How many persons are there? Three. How many Peter? Only one Peter. These three will always be the same Peter. They can talk and have fun together; Peter begins to create. Jesus= father, Son and Holy Spirit (Mt 28.19).b1
-Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are "THREE DISTINCT PERSONS"; Is it written? "Gen 19.24" shows God being twice himself. "Pro 30.4" shows that the Son already existed. "Luk 10.22" shows that we receive by 'revelation'; it comes from the Father (Mat 16.17). A child easily understand when God reveals to him (Mat 11.25). Everything is not explained because there are hidden mysteries: "Rom 16.25", "Eph 3.9", "Col 1.26; 2.3". In the same time, the angels saw the Father (Mat 18.10) and the Son (Mat 4.6).b1
- (1) Imagine that you give birth to your son and that he is another yourself, he is a double (copy, duplicate) of your soul and your spirit. There are now 2 distinct persons having each one their own soul and their own spirit, will, feeling, thoughts, etc. But they are twice the same person; there are 2 different persons but it is the unique person twice. The double is the Son resulting from the Father at the beginning of the creation. ...>>>
- (2) This Son created all things. Later this Son came in flesh through Mary; he became a 100% man while God (the Father) look at (from heaven) his son living on earth.
- In other words, Jesus is an other himself of the ONE who is the only real God; so, Jesus is the One who is the One, the real and the Only True God. 1 John 5.20: "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, ... He (Jésus) is the true God, and eternal life."
-if God created his wisdom, he would have been without wisdom before it. It's the wisdom of the Son created and born BEFORE the creation of the world (Pro 8.22, 24). The Son was WITH the Father (Pro 8.30, 31; Jn 1.1). The Son has a beginning, but not as himself who is the ONE God who has been doubled (a copy). Father, Son and Holy Spirit have each one their will (Luc 22.42; 1 Cor 12.11), spirit (Luc 23.46; Jn 4.24; Matt 18.10; Rom 8.27; 1 Cor 2.10) and soul (Mark 14.34; Héb 10.38; Matt 12.18).b1
Jesus was not deity. He was made just like us...a 100% human being. He was the Second Adam, not the firt God-man. the term God-man is found nowhre in the Holy Writ. Neither Jesus nor God was incarnate. Jesus had a "human" birth. He did not pre-eixist his birth as a spirit being in heaven with the Father...this would then be reincarntion. "For God has done what the law, weakened by the Flesh, cout not do: bty SENDING his OWN Son in the likeness of sinful flesh......
3 persons. The Son had a beginning: Pro 8.22-30 (God has never been without wisdom). The Son is not the Father but is an other self of Him who is the Father (double): Luke 6.12; John 14.9a 'I', 'ME', the Holy Spirit too: Ro 8.27; Jn 14.16 'another'.
3 personnes. Le Fils a un début: Pro 8.22-30 (Dieu n'a jamais été sans sagesse). Le Fils n'est pas le Père mais est UN AUTRE LUI-MÊME de CELUI qui est le Père (double): Luc 6.12; Jn 14.9a 'JE', 'M'as'; l'Esprit-Saint aussi: Ro 8.27; Jn 14.16 'AUTRE'.
@BibleFrW Jesus did not have two natures! God "twice": identified Jesus Christ as his Son, the one to whom he loved and approved. God does not lie....but our clergy do. To attempt to promote the Trinity doctrine, they must resort to neblous, esoteric and double-talk to convince theologially illiterate pewsitters that Jesus Chrit is God..
Jesus knew who he was, God knew he was, Paul, Peter, Luke, and Mary....all these persons of the Scriptures knew without doubt who Jesus Christ was.
@BibleFrW Jesus did not have two natures! God "twice": identified Jesus Christ as his Son, the one to whom he loved and approved. God does not lie....but our clergy do. To attempt to promote the Trinity doctrine, they must resort to neblous, esoteric and double-talk to convince theologially illiterate pewsitters that Jesus Chrit is God..
Jesus knew who he was, God knew he was, Paul, Peter, Luke, and Mary....all these persons of the Scriptures knew without doubt who Jesus Christ was!
@BibleFrW Many of the most learned evangelical scholars-when endeavoring to prove the Trinity and other post-biblical dotrine from the Bible, show that they often excel, not in their skill or willingness to reiterte, expound or shed light upon what the Bible does say, but in the craft of making the Bible seem like it says something it does not say, in order to uphold and perpetuate acceptance of traditional dogmas.
@BibleFrW You simply cannot find the doctrine of the Trinity set out anwhere inthe Bible. Every modern critical scholar of the NT now realizes; that netiher the doctrine of the Trinity nor that of the two nature of Jesus Christ is explicitly set out in Scriptues. In fact, if you take the record as it is and avoid readng back into it the dogmatic defnition of a later age, you cannot find what is traditionaly regrded as orthodox Christianity int he Bible at all.
Part 2 - wrong with the Oneness theology of God. I know many of Christians on both sides operating in the fruits and gifts of the Spirit. Don't lump all Trinitarians with the many apostate, ecumenical and the "Just say a prayer and live like the devil" so called Christians.
Also my Christian brothers and sisters, let us take heed to Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Me personally, I believe in the Triune Godhead (3 persons) One God. I don't have to use the catholic term Trinity. There are many verses in the bible that reveal this to me. And there is nothing wrong w/ that. Just as there is nothing
Blessings to all! I believe we all need to be careful about what we call "False Doctrine". Both Oneness and Trinitiarian advocates can borderline sedition (Galatians 5:20). 1st, the bible does not teach against the Triune Godhead. Also, nowhere in the bible does it say we need to understand God as a Triune or Trinity as a neccessity for salvation! Trinitarians & Oneness believe in one God! Sedition is defined as dissension or contention in words. Be careful brothers & sisters. Mark 9:39.
God isnt aMystery, he is revealed it unto us. Jesus Is God. Cuz Jesus Came in The Father's Name, Which Means The Fathers Name is... JESUS. & The Holy Spirit Came in Jesus' Name which means the Holy Spirit's Name is... JESUS. & In John, as well as other passages it State The Father is the Holy Spirit. Galatian 4:6 says God sent the Spirit of the Son into your hearts crying Abba, Father.. Which proves if The Spirit Of the Son is God, the The Son Is God. Jesus Christ is the 1 True Eternal God.
@JIIBlessed God bless you man! The bible teaches in Timothy 3:16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh , justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Amen.
John Ch 14:8-9 Jesus is speaking he says if you have seen the FATHER then you have seen ME the disciples where asking if there were 2 but Jesus clearly states that there is one. And remember God is a spirit not 3 I will send the comforter in my name. Basically Jesus was saying dont expect to see 3 or 2 your just going to see me" I am who I am"
If Jesus is not God, then Jesus would a lied. Jesus said I am. In Hebrew I am means self existing. Who would want to have a Jesus as prophet saying I did not say I God when he did? Not linear thinking.
bro william Branham said that both trinity and oneness are BOTH WRONG!
he said when you get it between oneness and trinity you will get it exaclty right.
some if the in between terminology that he used was Jesus was a Dual person, Father and Son were inseperable or yoked together.
God and Christ were in divine fellowship. that is why when Jesus said I have sat down with my Father on His throne yet John only saw ONE sitting upon the throne
“For god loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17- for god sent forth his son into the world ,not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
@quranresponse-The answer is as simple as them not being there when it was said. Nothing deep..... but since we are on the Bible why are you even attempting to use the Bible when you pick and choose what was allegedly corrupted versus what was not? In other words you all say Jesus pbuh never said He was GOD ALMIGHTY in the Bible....(I agree) Nevertheless when Jesus and all the rest of the Apostles say He is the Son of GOD you all say it was added or corrupted etc.
@quranresponse-So what I see with muslims is that they (well many muslims, I have not met every muslim, but many) are just trying to cause confusion in the community of faith in Jesus Christ. Why would you quote what you don't even hold to as truth? The Quran was written how many years after the New Testament? At least 600 years....AND.....prior to this where was Islam(?) non-existent; however, the descendants od Ishmael were alive, so who did the follow? TOWRAH, satan, idols, or nothing?
@quranresponse- See my point to you is that according to the bible Genesis 21:1-20...Ishmael and his mother Hagar knew THE GOD OF ISRAEL....of course we know Abraham did also, thus he circumcised Ishmael accordingly Genesis 17... So if Ishmael's GOD was Abraham's GOD initially....so when did Ishmael or his descendants turn to a different god other than the GOD of their father Abraham and Ishmael?
See all muslims are in rebellion against the GOD of their father Abraham! REPENT!
Therefore Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.”
Only (john-ch-8-vs-12) Therefore Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.” Mark: no Luke:no Matthew: no Only (john-ch-11-vs-25) Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life” Mark: no Luke: no Matthew:no
Do you imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed, I tell you, but rather division.52-for from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53-they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, and mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother –in-law.
look at revelations chapter 4 and 5 chapter 4 talks about him that sits on the throne in heaven,it talks about god, then chapter 5 talks about the only one that was worthy of taking the book out of the right hand of him that sits on the throne, and breaking the seals and opening the book the slain lamb witch is jesus, so you have the father and the son both in heaven. so how can a oneness person explain this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@71german-LOL.... they can't..... oneness believers stay at Rev.4:2 and go no further (well some).... FATHER and Son in Heaven... it is clear! And Hebrews 1:4 teaches Jesus was made.....better than the angels in respect to His nature....then Heb.2:9 teaches He was made a little lower than the angels in nature for the sake of death.
My point is that prior to the incarnation Christ existed as The Son of GOD...this again destroys oneness doctrine.
@Str8Talker365-Bless YHWH and speak well of HIS Son Jesus Christ. Let me add this to your comment also (maybe it will add to your faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of GOD). Not only is 1Jn.4:15 clear but John under inspiration of the Holy Spirit gets even more PRECISE in John 20:31 & 1Jn.5:13.
Both Jn.20:31 & 1Jn.5:13 destroys every mistaken notion that John the Apostle was writing to prove Christ was GOD ALMIGHTY, because he precisely states. We can quote him with 1Jn.5:13 & Jn.20:31.
@Str8Talker365- No problemo.... By the way... the reason I mentioned John 20:31 and 1Jn.5:13 is because many believers teach John the Apostle wrote to say Jesus was GOD ALMIGHTY; however, we have John himself telling us, not only who he believes Jesus is/was but exactly what he wrote about Jesus for us to believe.
In other words he says I wrote this so you all can believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD (paraphrased). He rebukes everyone saying he wrote to teach Christ is GOD ALMIGHTY.
Absolutely ... John tells us to confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, so that when we read II John 7-9 we can know that it is the Son of God (not God) who came in the flesh. THIS is the doctrine of Christ. The mantra "God in the flesh" is repeated over and again in mainstream Christianity and is just not the truth. God did not come in the flesh ... His Son did. To say that God came in the flesh is "antichrist" according to John. - Thanx for the good word.
@Str8Talker365-Oneness believers are in danger because they say the FATHER came in the FLESH denying that the SON of GOD has come. An anti-Christ spirit, according to 1Jn.4:1-3!
Trinitarians sometimes escape because they say The Son of GOD has come in the Flesh. Where some are in danger saying GOD ALMIGHTY HAS COME IN THE FLESH. They must cleave to the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles that Jesus is the SON of THE LIVING GOD and that Christ even in all His Greatness and Strength has a GOD!
Agree. The doctrine of Christ is that he came in mortal flesh like we are. Those who say that God came in the flesh because the Son is really God do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not then have God, according to John. That's how serious believing the wrong thing about Jesus Christ is. II John 7-10
@Str8Talker365- there is a fortunate and unfortunate context to this. Fortunately you are on the right side confessing that Jesus is the Son of GOD and that He came in mortal flesh. Unfortunately it is true what you said about those believing in Jesus Christ the wrong way....they do not have GOD=THE FATHER, nor the Son..according to 1 John 2:23 and even as you said with 2 John 7-10....
It is very serious and I believe the walls are closing in and there is no winking at this ignorance!
@MANUAIM LOL ... and you also seem to have a delusion that this channel is som GRAND arena of debate with your statements. This is a Youtube channel that has had only 6,000 hits. We are NOT in some MAIN event with a championship belt up for grabs. Calm yourself down, and quit taking yourself so seriously.
@Jaysen1976-LOL you can't see how serious this is to me huh....How's this for you... At every point of time in Jesus' complete existence from A to infinity and beyond...since He ever liveth right now....He had, has, and will always have a GOD!
i would like to ask a question , jesus said believe in him and you would receive eternal life , he also said no one cometh to the father but by me , if there is no trinity name one person other than GOD could give you eternal life and boldly put himself of GOD ? Meaning the only way you could go to the father is by him
@clients26- It pleased the Father that all the fulness should dwell in Christ Col.1:19.... Read Colossians because it explains that the FATHER desired Christ's preeminence over all of HIS CREATION.
Jesus Christ did not come on His own will. He was SENT... He was SENT..... He was SENT....John 13:16 study it.
Jesus said believe in Him because this was/ is the WILL OF THE FATHER i.e. Jn.6:29. Jesus pointed us to the FATHER always in His speech, just study His words *first!
Mormons, JW's, and Oneness do NOT understand the Trinity. There is a difference between something not making sense and it being a mystery. Mormons and JW's don't get it therefore, they deny the deity of Christ which usually results in polytheism because, unless you're a Muslim, the Bible clearly teaches that Christ is more than a human or a prophet. Oneness, by contrast, has an inconsistent theology that allows them to affirm the deity of Christ while denying three persons, one essence.
@littleman684- Trinity teaches GOD in 3 persons.... LOL .... Dude... YHWH exist in all who is born of HIS Spirit! So if there are 1 million born of HIS SPIRIT, it is no longer GOD in 3 persons LOL but YHWH in a million persons. Dude the trinity and oneness doctrine is false....
Jesus is NOT GOD ALMIGHTY.... He has a GOD and He stresses it in Rev.3:12 four times in 1 verse... People say they believe in Christ, YET they believe their leaders doctrine over YHWH & Christ & His Apostles. REPENT
“When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.”
in revelations jesus shows that he is subordinate to the father.. but also he refers to himself as the Almighty, Rev 1:8. Your arianism doctrine is false!!
@bigpanda408- What I speak is NOT arianism and my allegiance is YHWH ABBA and His Son Yahushua Ha Mashiyach and I hold to the doctrine of THEE Messiah and what the Apostles taught in His Character and Authority.
In Mt.22:32 the Messiah taught GOD is not the GOD of the dead but of the living. The Apostles taught in many places, " The GOD and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Cor.11:31; Eph.1:3,v.17;1Pet.1:3) my point is the Apostles taught Yahushua who ASCENDED to ABBA has a GOD!
@bigpanda408- Also go read the teachings of the One you say is GOD ALMIGHTY. Did He not teach in John 13:16 that a servant is NOT greater than his lord, neither he that is sent greater than the one who sent him. So my point is how many places do I now have to go to quote that (Yahushua) Jesus is a servant, and that YHWH (THE FATHER) sent Him? Jesus has a LORD and it is YHWH! When David seen what he seen in Ps.110:1 do you know this was AFTER Messiah resurrected? Rev.3:12 read it...
@bigpanda408- Now to address your posting of Revelation 1:8 how about we start at the beginning of Revelation 1:1-2! Check all the translations needed to see that YHWH the FATHER is revealing to Yahushua (Jesus) about the things that are going to happen. John the Apostle explained that he recorded the word of GOD *and the testimony of Jesus Christ. So even if it was Jesus speaking in Rev.1:8 it was only what Jesus heard from the FATHER about what is going to happen. (continued)....
@bigpanda408- If we study the gospels and the epistles we know that the elements are not going to melt at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. However 2 Pet.3:10-13 teaching that there shall be new heavens and a new earth. We know this is the New Jerusalem when it is ALL DONE... So who is coming when everything melts? THE FATHER is... and this is what is being explained in Rev.1:8.
Also Rev.1:4 clearly shows us a difference between him which is, which was and is to come vs. Christ in v.5.
@bigpanda408- To go further...again I stress reading the NIV, NASB, in addition to the KJV and other versions. In fact as many as you need to read to see clearly what Rev.1:1-2 is saying. Now... if you take a look at Mt.22:32 again and remember the principle of the Lord Jesus Christ. He taught Himself that GOD is not the GOD of the dead but of the LIVING.
Now in Rev.3:12 the Messiah says He has a GOD 4 times in 1 verse & says that even in the New Jerusalem He will still have a GOD! REPENT!
@bigpanda408- So your statement that the Messiah refers to Himself as the Almighty is false! My decleration is that Rev.1:4 makes a clear clear distinction between the one which was and is and is to come and Christ in Rev.1:5. Not only this but Rev.1:1-2 teaches that Christ in Heaven is getting REVELATION from ABBA about what shall happen! Not only that but Rev.1:6 says Christ has made us kings and priest unto GOD and His FATHER. Now according to Christ in Jn.20:17, His FATHER is His GOD!
@bigpanda408-I'm sorry to offend your conscience but I am not ashamed of the TRUTH! Jesus Christ is the SON OF THE LIVING GOD! There is no doctrine from any denomination or the gates of hell that can prevail against the WITNESS OF GOD ALMIGHTY who told Peter in Mk.16:16 that Jesus Christ was HIS Son. Jesus confirmed ABBA gave Peter the Revelation. This was the ROCK that the gates of hell cannot prevail against. The doctrine that Jesus is th Son of GOD! ABBA is the GREATEST WITNESS 1Jn.5:9-13
@bigpanda408- I am tired of hearing teachers, and preachers or whoever who say they believe in Jesus Christ teach He is GOD ALMIGHTY when Jesus never taught it Himself nor did any of the Apostles. The Apostles taught the RESURRECTED and ASCENDED Jesus HAD/HAS a GOD. This is clear... Many of these lying teaching say yeah Jesus had a GOD but only in His Humanity...NOT SO! Jesus is LIVING RIGHT NOW with ABBA and the Apostles wrote of Jesus in a present tense when saying THE GOD OF OUR Lord Jesus!
@MANUAIM first, did you read 1Cor15:28? He is SUBORDINATE to God the Father, this is why Jesus has a God. What does the term "Son of God" mean to you, and also what does the term "Son of Man" mean to you? 2Peter 3 is talking about Jesus you will see this in verse 18. therefore in Rev 1:8 it is Jesus who is speaking,he is giving his testimony Rev 1:2.. Jesus confirms this in Rev 1:17-18. Jesus refers to himself as the almighty in jn8:58. the apostles call and worship him as God Jn20:26-28!
@bigpanda408 - I can explain this all but it would take more time than I have. I will reply to you though please be patient. I do not have internet connection at the moment and I am away from home responding to these messages. But I can explain John 20:28... LOL Thomas was only 1 and there are several ways to look at this verse. By the way Thomas was not there when Jesus said what He said in John 20:17 LOL.... I will reply in a more formal tone give me time I have answers though.
@bigpanda408- EVERYONE is subordinate to the FATHER. HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY. Jesus humbled Himself and said unto Pilate a great thing, in fact to me the most humblest thing I have ever seen written about what Messiah said.... Thou couldest have no power at all against me, *EXCEPT it were given thee from above. Jn.19:11... Can you SHAMA? Can you HEAR? HEAR O ISRAEL....SHAMA.... The Messiah explained to Pilate the ONLY WAY Pilate can have power over Him is IF the FATHER gave it to him!
@bigpanda408- If Jesus only had a GOD according to His Flesh then in Heaven there is no terrestrial flesh i.e. no human flesh and blood i.e. 1Cor.15:50 i.e. corruption cannot INHERIT INCORRUPTION. Thus, I GLORY in the TRUTH that the INCORRUTIPLE Yahushua Ha Mashiyach (Jesus The Messiah) says 4 times in 1 verse Rev. 3:12 that He has a GOD! He goes further and *PROPHESIES that even in the New Jerusalem He will *STILL HAVE A GOD. ABBA is the ONLY TRUE GOD (Jn.17:3), everyone else is delegated!
@MANUAIM your assuming unitarianism, john 17:3 is telling us to worship God, and jesus and also, read the rest of it, In John 17:5 it states that Jesus shares Glory with the Father! In Isaih 42:8 YHWH states that he will not share his glory with no other!! How do you reconcile that?
@bigpanda408- John 17:22 explains Isa.42:8... So in this passage if we say ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY can receive the GLORY of GOD ALMIGHTY...thus the mentioning of John 17:5... Then you have to say that GOD ALMIGHTY the SON gave the same glory He received from another GOD ALMIGHTY, to GOD ALMIGHTY the Apostles/believers/disciples? Come on....
The GLORY YHWH will not share is that HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY! No one else can or will ever be GOD ALMIGHTY. What Glory was it that Jesus shared with ABBA?
@MANUAIM John 17:22 is referring to believers to glorify The Father on the EARTH, just like jesus did in John 17:4 so they would be in union with God through The Holy Spirt.. The Glory that Jesus shared with The Father, is stated in 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with THE glory which i had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS."
@bigpanda408- I believe that Jesus Christ the Son of GOD, LITERALLY existed as a person before the world was; however, people are isogeting their superstitions into John 17:5 by saying the GLORY Messiah had with ABBA was shared GLORY as GOD ALMIGHTY. Even if it was true that this glory was in respect to the earth's mission, it was still GIVEN before the world was because the ENTIRE COVENANT and MEDIATATION took place before the WORLD was... Jesus Christ has a GOD! His ABBA....
@bigpanda408- I would love for to get a statement from a trinitarian or oneness believer FULL OF INTEGRITY and TRANSPARENCY.... I would ask them to explain why Jesus Christ is quoted saying He has a GOD in every aspect of His existence that we know of from the scriptures. In Heb.2:13 before the incarnation, before the cross Jn.17:3 He says ABBA is the ONLY TRUE GOD, on the cross My GOD, My GOD Mk.15:34, after the resurrection Jn.20:17, in Heaven & New Jerusalem in Rev.3:12! Please explain?
@MANUAIM 1. Jesus says he has a God, because he does.. This go's for Rev 3:12 also.. In 1Cor 15:28, says that we are all subjects to The Son (including you and me) Then it go's on to say that The Son is subject to Him who put things under Him, That GOD may be ALL in ALL!! 2. When Jesus cried out "My God, My God" he was referring to prophecy foretold in Psalm 22 (please read it). The reason why he cried it out was to let the Jews know that they were fulfilling prophecy of the Messiah!!
@bigpanda408- So explain how Jesus has a GOD and will always have a GOD yet He is GOD ALMIGHTY? Explain how this GOD of Jesus' is GREATER than Jesus John 14:12 & 14:28 yet Jesus is still GOD ALMIGHTY / MOST HIGH GOD? It makes no biblical sense at all...
I understand we were ALL put under Christ.... Col.1 teaches YHWH's pleasure of Christ PREEMINENCE over ALL OF YHWH's creation.
Yes Ps.22 is prophecy but it wasn't planned by Jesus. He really cried out to ABBA it was an UNFEIGNED CRY!
@bigpanda408- He didn't cry out to let them know He was fulfillin prophecy. Sir that is more isogeting. The only way I would agree with you is if you could show me Hebrew articles PRE-dating the incarnation of Christ explaining that those who awaited Messiah understood Ps.22 was Messianic Prophecy.
That time on the tree/stake/cross was Messiah's most dreadful moment of His total existence being seperated from ABBA. It wasn't a pretended cry it was literal ABBA forsook HIS FIRST BEGOTTEN!
@MANUAIM First off, according to matthew 22:42-46, King David refers to Jesus as Lord in the Psalms.. So psalm 22 in light of the new testament is a messianic prophecy.
Also, you are assuming unitarianism again.. I explained your allegations many times before. Jesus has a God, he calls the Father God. In hebrews chapter 1:8 the Father calls jesus God!!
@bigpanda408-Why is it that I cannot find an honest trinatarian or oneness believer on youtube that will OPENLY REPENT of there error once proven time and time again? Yes David is calling Jesus Lord in the Psalms but who is David calling Jesus' Lord in the same verse? YHWH! Once again it is proven QUICKLY that you are leaving out the truths written in the verse.
You focus on David calling Jesus Lord, nevertheless, I pointed out that the Lord Jesus Himself has a LORD using the same verse!
@bigpanda408- I don't understand.... You say to me that David called Jesus Lord in Ps.110:1, yet Jesus used the same passage in Mt.22:41-46 to point out the TRUTH about who's Son He is! Why did you leave that out? Sir without being offended or even trying to offend you, I marvel at how many believers out there are screaming from the mountain top Jesus is Lord etc (for so He is Lord) nevertheless, the same Bible teaches Jesus has a LORD! Do you know who made Jesus Lord? ABBA did! Acts 2:36
@bigpanda408- So honestly Sir, your opening up of using first off, further amazes me that you would acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, but cover up that the one called Lord has a LORD! Thus I pointed out Isa.61:1-3 which is a repeat in Luke 4:18-21 and Acts 2:36 and Mt.22:41-46 and Mk.12:36 and Ps.110:1 etc. I mean come on.
You bring up Heb.1:8, which is from Ps.45:6-7, Yeah Jesus is called elohiym by His ELOHIYM, and both PS.45:6-7 and Heb.1:8-9 makes this clear the one called God has a GOD!
@bigpanda408- Concerning Heb.1:8-9/Ps.45:6-7 have you ever read studied to understand Jesus' teachings in John 10:34-36? Well, focusing on v.34-35 Jesus is teaching that GOD called them gods unto whom HIS word came. Now in the Hebrew or Greek where is the capitalization? I have yet to see it! My point is that in Jn.10:35 god and God is 2316-theos, yet, we are abrupt to wise up and understand that one is a delegated god by THEE GOD, but then we loose this wisdom when Jesus is called God. Why?
@MANUAIM I have never denied that God the Son has a God! This is the person hood of the trinity. About your greek on the gospel of John. God or god is Theo, Theos, Theon, and Theov. (there is no capitalization in ancient hebrew or greek) but in the verse were it states "gods" the word used here is "Theoi" witch literealy means "Gods or gods". But jesus was calling them false judges! Amos 2:4/5.
concerning heb 1:8, how do you reconcile it with isaiah 44:6-8?
@bigpanda408 - Your doctrine is totally contrary to what Jesus Christ taught, and Jesus was not teaching that they were false gods, being the FACT that it is YHWH actually commissioning them into elohiymship/theos-ship.
*HE called them gods unto whom HIS word came. Did YHWH call Moshe a false god in Ex.7:1 or Ex.4:16? No! You are denying that Jesus Christ is lesser than GOD ALMIGHTY and this is where you and everyone else slips into IDOLATRY the moment you say Jesus Christ is GOD ALMIGHTY!
@MANUAIM Moses was not a false god, he was a man appointed in authority.. what jesus was referring to in john 10:34-35, was a direct quotation of psalm 82 specifically verses 6-7.. and the word "Theos" is not used to describe them, the greek word that was used for verse 35 is "Theoi" which is plural for gods, "Theos" is singular! You may not claim into arianism but you sure do preach it, Jesus is equal to God in nature he is not lesser in being phil 2:6. but he is lesser in person 1cor 15:28.
@bigpanda408- In John 10:34-35 the word used is theos-2316 for both God and gods. It is clear! Jesus wasn't calling them nothing because He was not the one that was making the declaration Himself but rather He was giving those who said He blasphemed scripture by which they could tie His doctrine to. He was pointing them to what was written and taught throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. The HE that Jesus mentioned was YHWH. YHWH called them gods unto whom HIS word came! Jn.10:34-35 re-read it.
@bigpanda408- It amazes me that you as a believer sir, would say that Jesus was calling them false gods. It utterly amazes me. I say this because in Exodus 22:28 it is a commandment not to revile the gods nor curse the rulers of the people. Paul submits himself to this doctrine in Acts 23:5. Yet you would dare to say Messiah was calling them false gods? IN THE LAW it is written of these ---> Ex.4:16, Ex.4:1,Ex.22:28, Ps.82:6
You think YHWH is standing in the congregation of false gods?
@bigpanda408-As to how I reconcile Isa.44:6-8 with Heb.1:8 is something I call the "Principle of Delegation". I am in the process of moving right now so I cannot make a video on it right now... But more videos are coming soon. Now... The Principle of Delegation is a concept I use to magnify the HUMBLE COMMISSIONING that GOD ALMIGHTY uses to delegate others into HIS operations.
Now in Isa.44:6 there is this word "beside-1107-biladey. Look it up it means except, without etc.
@bigpanda408- In other words Isa.44:6 is letting us know that there is none other but by YHWH. Which again repoints us back to the principle of delegation. How GOD ALMIGHTY brings others into elohiymship. HE is the MOST HIGH ELOHIYM/THEOS/GOD... The simple principle of YHWH's word is terrible in that one word can change ones total being/existence etc. Unto whom HIS word came HE called them gods. So if HIS word came to one for judgment toward another HE brought them into HIS ELOHIYMSHIP.
@bigpanda408- The fact we were made in HIS likeness and image should open your understanding up beyond the image of the fallen man. For too long now we have embraced the fallen image of man as the original image of man. NO! We were made in the IMAGE and after the LIKENESS of GOD ELOHIYM!
So when it says let US, make man in our image and after our likeness it is NOT teaching that YHWH was talking to other YHWH's, but rather to other elohiym. So man was made in the likeness of elohiym.
@bigpanda408- The other elohiym that was present in addition to YHWH was HIS Son Jesus and the angels.
I already mentioned prior the BATTER swinging the Bat concept in respect to CREATION i.e. OF YHWH By Christ (1Cor.8:6) etc. but the angels were there also. i.e. Job 38:4-7, not creating by witnessing the foundation of the world.
Angels are elohiym = Ps.8:5 the word angels there is 430-elohiym. So angels indeed are elohiym, YET Christ is superior to all elohiym except YHWH-Jn.19:11
@bigpanda408- So Isa.44:6 is teaching that there is no GOD beside YHWH. After studying the word "beside" it is clear that this passage is teaching YHWH as the SUPREME ELOHIYM i.e. THE MOST HIGH GOD i.e. THE GOD of gods.
Yet we see Christ exalted above all of YHWH's creation especially since we see that YHWH seen to Christ's preeminence of all things. Col.1 & 2 nevertheless, we understand that YHWH is not in the rankings of the created things, but Christ is Col.1:15/Rev.3:14/1Cor.8:6
@bigpanda408- I shout it from the mountain top that Jesus is called God in the Bible. Yet when the one who is called God is teaching that He has a GOD that He belongs to, ONE that is His HEAD 1Cor.11:3....ONE that is GREATER than Him Jn.14:12, Jn.14:28, then I marvel at the people who blatantly REBEL against the truth Jesus teaches the FATHER is the ONLY TRUE GOD in Jn.17:3.
I rest upon the fact that Jesus was still receiving REVELATIONS from GOD ALMIGHTY! Rev.1:1-2 & He has a GOD! Rev.3:12
@bigpanda408- So after reading John 10:34-36 ( focusing on v.34-35 {even Ps.82:6}) if you still want to stick with the false balance that Jesus being called God means GOD ALMIGHTY then in every place that Jesus was called God = ({ Hebrew-430-elohiym}) ({ Greek-2316-theos}) then in any other time we see someone else called elohiym/theos then hold to the false balance of your theory and say they are also GOD ALMIGHTY.
See Ex.4:16,Ex,7:1,Ex.22:28; Ps.8:5 (angels=elohiym) Jn.10:34-35,1Cor.8:5
@bigpanda408- You are trying to pledge me to arianism and unitarianism and I pledge allegiance to NEITHER!
My allegiance doctrinally is unto what is written after studied, Sir.
You on the otherhand pledge allegiance to trinitarianism which has changed how many times since 300 AD? More than what? 10 times? Come on...
My declaration is pure! Jesus Christ is the Son of the LIVING GOD and the gates of Hell nor Americanized Christendom, NOR ANYTHING can prevail against it! 1Jn.5:9-13
@MANUAIM Trinitarianism has stayed the same since Ignatius of Antioch , who studied under John the Apostle.. And since Turtulians writings in the second century, and through the third century with the Nicean creed and the Chalcedonian creed. and its the same today because the bible gives us the nature of God in scripture!! The word Trinity is not in the bible, but its a word given to describe the Three in one formula given through out scripture from genesis to revelations.
@bigpanda408- As far as your declaration of the doctrine of the trinity staying the same this is erroneous. The trinity has been reinvented over time from believer to believer. But I want to stay precisely focused on BIBLE and not argue the trinity outside of what is written. Now as to your declaration that Ignatius of Antioch studying under John the Apostle, whether it be true or not, it matters not to me. I know John told us who he believes Jesus is Jn.20:31, 1Jn.5:13.
@bigpanda408- By you mentioning Ignatius of Antioch studying under John the Apostle, looks like you are trying to convince me that John taught him the trinity. *WE (KJV Bible reading believers) have written record available to us all showing us what John taught and what he believed. He wrote in John 20:31 and 1Jn.5:13 *TELLING US himself what he wrote for us to believe. He wrote to tell us to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD, NOT GOD ALMIGHTY THE SON.... The Son of GOD.
@MANUAIM John told us exactly what he believes, Jesus is "The Son of God!!" What does that mean? please shed some light on the situation, also what does the title "The Son of Man" mean? and how do you reconcile all that with john 1:1, john 8:58.. The Son of God is "of God" the Spirit of God "is of God, The Father is God, They are all One substance and work together as one! Matt 28:19, 2 cor 13:14. Isaiah 44:6 YHWH says that he is "the first and last" Jesus says he is the first and last rev 1.17
@bigpanda408-See I am so technical that I am reasoning with your words. When I hear trinitarians say God the Son, if you all meant Elohiym the Son I would not have a problem with your declaration because in all actuality Jesus is an Elohiym i.e. Ps.45:6/Heb.1:8, but there is a difference between what it means to be an elohiym vs. THEE MOST HIGH ELOHIYM. So your statement of God the Son is false because you think Jesus being called elohiym/theos means GOD ALMIGHTY vs. elohiym.
@bigpanda408- Also the GOD in 3 persons statement is an UNDERSTATEMENT. Sir, GOD ALMIGHTY is IN everyone born of the Holy Spirit. So it is not GOD in 3 persons anymore but rather GOD in millions or billions over the ages up until this very moment.
GOD is 1. Gal.3:20/Deut.6:4... GOD was in Christ 2Cor.5:19 we know that, and the Holy Spirit's operation at anytime is both the FATHER & Son or the FATHER. The Holy Spirit is NOT seperate from the person of the FATHER.
@MANUAIM Agreed, but what i am referring to is "The Nature of God" aka Triunity! The Holy Spirit is a person, Acts 13:2, Romans 8:26, Acts 16: 6, Ephesians 1:13-14.
@bigpanda408- The Holy Spirit is not a person but rather the SPIRIT OF GOD operating or in operation outside of HIMSELF with people. Just like when Christ said WE will come unto you and make our abode with you Jn.14:23.
The nature of GOD is not a Triunity. Do you understand how destructive Gal.3:20 is to any doctrine that believes in more than 1 PERSON as GOD ALMIGHTY. In fact Jesus could NOT be the mediator between GOD and man if He was GOD ALMIGHTY! Because He was the mediator.
@bigpanda408 If you wish to educate yourself more on the oneness position,(from the horses mouth so to speak) go to the website, w.onenesspentecostal. com scroll down to the heading " theology proper (the person of God)" and read the articles before making such false and hostile statements,please. Thankyou
@bigpanda408- So in every believer (BORN AGAIN) is the Spirit of GOD... And from Genesis throughout Revelation we see GOD ALMIGHTY operating by many... From HIS Son Jesus Christ to angels to people in the earth. So the trinity concept is an understatement. Just like many if not all trinitarians and oneness believers say Jn.10:30 makes Jesus GOD ALMIGHTY because He said "I and my FATHER are ONE". Yet the same Greek word for one is mentioned in Jn.17:11,v.21-23 are we also GOD ALMIGHTY?
@Jaysen1976- LOL at how you tried to offer bigpanda408 the oneness doctrine. The oneness doctrine at the blink of an eye depending on the oneness believer can turn into complete HELLISH doctrine. The moment you all deny the existence of the Son of GOD in Heaven you bear witness against yourselves, who shall return to rescue you from the times to come (?) if there is no Son of GOD in Heaven? 1Thess.1:9-10 is another witness against the lying doctrine of modalism and so is Jn.16:27-28 & Rev.3:12
@MANUAIM You do not have a firm grasp on the oneness position. Oneness believers do NOT believe that the son of God has come in the flesh. Though there are some modalist who teach a "divine flesh" doctrine or some form of docetism, this is not the traditional oneness belief. We believe EXPLICITLY that the Son of God has come in the flesh. What we DO NOT believe is that GOD the son became the Son of God. Nor do we t believe in the doctrine of the "eternally begotten son".
@Jaysen1976- The oneness believers do teach that there was *No Son of GOD prior to the incarnation. I have heard it many times. And you would have to explain more to me as far as what you mean by saying "we" do not believe the *son of GOD has come in the Flesh vs. believing the *Son of God has come in the flesh.
How can you say you guys EXPLICITLY believe The Son of GOD has come in the flesh, when you say that Jesus is the FATHER in the Flesh? Explain....
@MANUAIM You fail to understand that you misinterpret (1 Jhn 4:2-3, 2 Jhn 1:7) , These scriptures have nothing to do with any pre-incarnate Son of God but rather the son dwelling in the believer. This is what John means by "has come in the flesh", read the context my friend.
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- You say that 1Jn.4:2-3 & 2Jn.1:7 have nothing to do with a pre-incarnate Son of GOD but rather the son dwelling in the believer. First off I see that many oneness believers try to word play Son vs. son alot' nevertheless, my friend in the Hebrew and Greek there is no capitalization, not that I seen (though) I have heard some say there was some in ancient greek.
"come-2064-erchomai" definitely means something. Do you dare to look it up? ----> blueletterbible(dot)org
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- I must tell you that both 1Jn.4:1-3 and 2Jn.1:7 both deal with a pre-incarnate Christ. I do not know if it is better for me to ask you to study what the word "come-2064-erchomai" means or simply point you to Heb.1:4 vs. Heb.2:7-9.
I guess it may be better for the attempted wit of posting Hebrews 1:4 vs. Hebrews 2:7-9 in order for you to see just how powerful this is against the oneness argument.
Even by Dr. White using Phil.2 it proves a pre-incarnate Christ.
Heb.1:4-Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb.2:9-But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
In Heb.1 Christ is superior to angels in Heb.2 Christ for the sake of death was made LOWER than angels.
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- My friend, my point is that the oneness believer overlooks the fact that Christ as the Son of GOD in the Spirit before the incarnation was made SUPERIOR to the angels. Nevertheless, after he came in the flesh he was made lower for the suffering of death.
We can even stay in the context of the video and parallel Phil.2:7-8 to Hebrews 2:14-17 to see both passages support the other. You mean to say you truly believe Heb.2:17 is not a pre-incarnation support scripture?
@FalseTrinityDoctrine Go to w. onenesspentecostal. com for more info. I perceive you are none to open to this truth. So why waste our time debating? If you want to educate yourself more on the doctrine, go to the website, if not, so be it.
@MANUAIM you say that oneness believers teach that there was no son of God prior to the incarnation. That is true, so do trinitarians. The Son of God was not born until the fullnes of time, and Mary gave birth to Him. Trinitarians teach that GOD THE SON was before the incarnation. We do not believe this. We believe there is one God, the Father. Who was Jesus Christ before He came in the Flesh? John 1:1 He is the logos and the logos is the THEOS. There is only one Theos, the Father
@Jaysen1976- I do see your making a distinction between trinitarians saying GOD THE SON vs. Son of GOD. But Trinitarians will say The Son of GOD has come or they will say GOD the Son has come. I have heard them say both.
My point is that I have never heard one trinitarian ever deny that the Son of GOD pre-existed the incarnation.
Gal.4:4 rebukes the oneness doctrine totally, "GOD sent forth HIS Son". Don't forget a child was born but a Son was given (Isa.9:6) Whose Son was given?
@Jaysen1976- I can stay within the words of Jesus Christ alone and prove He pre-existed the incarnation.
John 10:36-Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 16:
27-For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28-I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
*For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. *For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
How could Christ be the only begotten Son if He did not pre-exist the incarnation?
@Jaysen1976- In other words.... We all know by the scriptures that Adam was the 1st man in the flesh... Terrestrial flesh that is. Man was made from the dust of the earth etc. the whole Genesis 1 & 2 account right. Okay... So since we know that Christ according to the flesh was AFTER Adam according to 1Cor.15:46-49 i.e. the Last Adam was made a quickening spirit i.e. first man of the earth (Adam) second is the Lord from Heaven (Christ).
@Jaysen1976: 1Cor.15:46-47*Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.*The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
V.46-47 is about earthly manifestation!
Read Heb.2:9-17
Heb.2:17-Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
@Jaysen1976- Now ask yourself how can the Son of GOD not exist prior to the incarnation when it says it BEHOVED Him to be made like unto His Brethren so that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in the things pertaining to GOD.
If you say this was the FATHER then now you also believe GOD ALMIGHTY i.e. THE FATHER, was our brother even prior to the incarnation!?!?! LOL excuse my humor but go tell your Elders that! They will excommunicate you. Seriously... REPENT Acts 17:30
@Jaysen1976- I already posted Heb.1:4 vs. Heb.2:9 to prove the pre-existence of Christ prior to the incarnation. Come on.....
All the stuff I posted about Gal.3:20 in respect to what a mediator is and how GOD IS ONE. Yet a mediator is not a mediator of one....
On top of that you say there is only one theos, this is FALSE DOCTRINE. There is ONLY ONE SUPREME THEOS! There are many theos, from Christ to Holy angels, men and women, and even the fallen ones.
@Jaysen1976- Even if you do not read Greek, you can find Joh 1:1 gone over all over the Web in Greek and English paralleled. It is clear that the logos belongs to THE GOD. Many still continue to overlook what Jesus taught in John 10:34-35... He taught them unto WHOM HIS WORD CAME... (not His word as in Jesus, but as in THE FATHER) HE called them gods-2316-theos.
This is mentioned in Ps.82:6- I said ye are gods....BUT this was established prior to it...
@Jaysen1976- Did YHWH's word come to Eve? Did YHWH's word come to the angels? Yes of course being that they are ministering spirits SENT FORTH to minister to them that will be heirs of salvation right (Heb.1:14).... The list goes on.. Paul teaches lords many gods many etc. 1Cor.8:5...then goes onto say unto us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER... 1Cor.8:6..
Now pay attention to the FACT that Paul was calling THE FATHER THE ONLY SUPREME GOD vs. the only theos, even like Christ in Jn.17:3
@MANUAIM You are not being honest with the reading in John 1. I am not sure what your other points are leading to but debating christology hasn't been my main focus witinh the past few days. If you would just some up your personal christological beliefs, are you arian? Just BRIEFLY glancing over your comments I am expecting to come across some reference to the New world translation. I am sorry, I mean no disrespect but I haven't the interest at this time to debate this topic
@Jaysen1976- WOW this is awesome man. Here it is for all the creation to see. I ask you what you believe about Jesus Christ in respect to His identity in Heaven right now, and you bring up Christology and prior to the importance of the Hypostatic Union etc.
Sir, have I not tried in our discourse to stay sternly focused on what is written even after studied in greek and hebrew (?), yet you repay me with an attempt to pledge my allegiance to a man made sect of faith/beliefs?
@MANUAIM I think you take yourself WAY too seriously. So you aren't a Jehovahs witness? I asked for you to ascribe your beliefs so that perhaps at another time if I have nothing better to do I will engage you in dialogue. Right now I am studying cosmology, objective morality and the will. I am currently focused on atheists right now. But perhaps at a time in the future I will deal with you and your rantings, so sum up your christological stance quickly for me are you an arian?
@Jaysen1976- I told you my stance....re-read my comments on who I said Christ was prior to the incarnation, in the incarnation, and after the incarnation!
@Jaysen1976-Have I not openly declared that my allegiance is to YHWH/THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY and HIS Son Yahuwhushua HaMashiyach/ Jesus The Messiah and to upholding these truths written in the KJV version of the Holy Bible and taught by the Apostles of Jesus Christ throughout the New Testament Epistles.
Sir, I am afraid to pledge allegiance to doctrines of men. If they are teaching it I need SCRIPTURE to ingrain it with my beliefs. What I post I will NOT be blaming any Pastor for it!
@Jaysen1976- What have I posted on this page to you where I point you to anything but the Bible for my beliefs, other than pointing out scholastical tools such as the concordance/bible dictionary or the greek or hebrew language.
I pointed you to Bible and asked you a question about your beliefs about Jesus in Heaven, yet you run from my question and say you don't want to debate, yet amazingly you ask me a question in return about what my is my christological beliefs?!?!?
@Jaysen1976- How could the ones that YHWH HIMSELF made gods be fake gods? i.e. How could YHWH HIMSELF make Moses a fake elohiym/god/theos in Ex.7:1? Oh, please tell me you do not believe Ex.22:28 was about fake elohiym/gods/theos?
If so why would Paul submit to the Ex.22:28 doctrine in Acts 23:5.. Come on... Paul taught gods many lords many! And Christ taught the same teaching in John 10:34-35. Simply define 2316 in Greek i.e. Theos.
@MANUAIM When my interest cycle back to debating Christology I will engage you. Until then, brush up on my the Oneness belief ..and many other interesting topics at
w. Onenesspentecostal. com Thank you and good day
@Jaysen1976- So I don't have a firm grasp on the oneness position huh(?) okay...no problem. So teach me then, and explain to me beyond what the website says...You (if you can) please tell me here openly who you believe that Jesus Christ was before He came in the Flesh
God is the Father and Jesus is the Son. All who are saved are IN Christ, and thus, sons and daughters of God in Christ. But who is the Holy Spirit? The, "divine uncle?" My point is this -- every relationship with Himself that God reveals speaks of a family relationship. Except for the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is NOT a Person. Look up the Greek of John 14 through 16. The pronouns HE and WHOM that refer to the HS could just as easily be translated IT or THAT ONE.
dklml3 1 week ago
Spirit and that these three are one? people can believe what they want and that is their choice, but i tell you, there are not 3 distinct individuals in the Godhead, the name of the Father, the name of the Son, and the name of the Holy Spirit are one and the same and the name of all three is Jesus Christ.
demonslayer3675 2 weeks ago
trinity of Gods that would not all lay their life on the line for me. you see, Jesus was God in the flesh, God and the Holy Spirit are both Spirits and we cannot see Spirits, the only visible face of God was Jesus Christ. in the beginning Jesus was God Lord of all creation, in the new testament He was God in redemption, and He comes to us now as the Holy Spirit. so all three are one. doesn't that one scripture say that their are 3 that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy
demonslayer3675 2 weeks ago
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for those who claim that the Trinity is true must be confused, i mean ok, according to Trinitarians, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit or co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal. ok, if they were why then would one Jesus pray to another God if He was equal to Him? if they were equal, why then would one die on the cross and the others forsake Him? so according to Trinitarians not all members of the Godhead gave their life for us, only one did right? well i am sorry, i would not want to worship a
demonslayer3675 2 weeks ago
for those who claim that the Trinity is true must be confused, i mean ok, according to Trinitarians, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit or co-equal, co-existent, and co-eternal. ok, if they were why then would one Jesus pray to another God if He was equal to Him? if they were equal, why then would one die on the cross and the others forsake Him? so according to Trinitarians not all members of the Godhead gave their life for us, only one did right? well i am sorry, i would not want to worship a
demonslayer3675 2 weeks ago
Trinitarianism is paganism.
ZLUGGO 4 months ago 2
if JESUS is the SON of GOD only, what therefore is being mentioned in ISAIAH 9:6 that Jesus is the everlasting FATHER??? we both agree that there is only ONE FATHER THAT EXISTS and that is GOD THE FATHER, so then why JESUS is the EVERLASTING FATHER in the prophesy of isaiah?
stal0201 4 months ago
@stal0201 -In Isaiah 9.6, Jesus is the everlasting FATHER because the ONE who is the Father is an other himself of the one who is the SON. This ONE is called Jesus. Thus, the name of Jesus given to the son is the name given to the ONE who is the Father and the Son; a double, but two disctinct persons with their own will, etc. . Now, we know who is the Father: he is the one who is the Son (the Son is his copy, his double, his mirror, his other himself). BibleFrW. net
BibleFrW 4 months ago
@BibleFrW It's a title, just like Jesus being labelled the firstborn in the NT.
filoIII 2 months ago
@stal0201 "everlasting Father" means He who establish the eternity on the earth. The founder of a being ONLY The founder of a being, can be called Father. Ahd He establesh the eternity, that why is called "everlasting Father"
MrMariusEMI1 2 months ago
@MrMariusEMI1 I DONT SEE YOR ANSWER AS BIBLE, GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.
DO THE FIRST PERSON OF YOUR TRINITY CEASE BEING FATHER, IN HEBREW A NAME IS WHAT A PERSON IS. THE I IN JESUS IS THE GREAT I AM.
jiedialuren17 1 week ago
-Jesus is 100 % a man; his Father is 100 % God; they are thus 2 distinct persons. But these 2 different persons are ONE double. So, the Son is not the Father (1 Cor 8.6), he is the Son of God. But the ONE who is the Son is another himself of the ONE who is the Father. I talk about his identity revealed (Luke 10.22). The son had a beginning (Prov 8.24) and he created everything (Col 1.16-17). This is not the traditional doctrine of the Trinity.
BibleFrW 4 months ago
-(3: following...) A revealed mystery (Eph 3.6). We are thus reconciled with God by his Son Jesus (Acts 4.12; Jn 14.6; Eph 2.13-18); the Lamb of God died in our place (Jn 1.29) out of love for us (Jn 15.13; Ro 5.8). This Son was born before his creation (Pro 8.22 and 24); he is the angel of the bush (Act 7.38; 1 Cor 10.1-4), because he is a double (a copy) (Jn 1.1), an other himself of the ONE who is a God (Jn 14.9a: "I" and "ME"). This Son, this double became a 100% man (Jn 1.1, 14; Phil 2.7).
BibleFrW 4 months ago
-(2: following...) When Jesus died on the cross, this woman (the sheep of Israel) is loosed from this law, from this old covenant of Sinai (Rom 7.1-3); but by his blood, Jesus contracted a new covenant (Luke 22.20 ; Heb 8.8, 13) which allows all those of Israel and nations who repent and convert to God to be forgiven (Mat 26.28; 28.19) on the basis of the substitutionary death of Jesus that we deserved as punishment for our sins(Rom. 6.23; Heb 9.14-17) ...[To follow on (3)]
BibleFrW 4 months ago
-(1) Here is the mystery. Mt 15:24: "I (Jesus) am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Why? Because he was still under the law of the old covenant that God has contracted with the sheep of Israel (Galatians 4.4). The angel of God at the burning bush who contracted this covenant was the son before he become flesh (Jn 1.14). Israel was compared to a woman and this God of the bush to her husband (Hosea 3:1-3). ...[To follow on (2)]
BibleFrW 4 months ago
- In other words, Jesus is an other himself of the ONE who is the only real God; so, Jesus is the One who is the One, the real and the Only True God.
1 John 5.20: "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life." ab BibleFrW. net
BibleFrW 4 months ago
-3 distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit; each one having his own will, but 3 times the same person. The Son is not the Father, but an OTHER HIMSELF of the ONE who is the Father (a double: Luke 6.12; John 14.9a: “I”, “Me”). The Son has a beginning (Prov 8.22-30; Col 1.15). The ONE who is the Son in "Micah 5.2" is an OTHER HIMSELF of the ONE God who never had a beginning. Knowing who is Jesus we know WHO are the Father (Luke 10.22; John 14.8-9) and the Holy Spirit (John 14.18; 15.26).ab
BibleFrW 4 months ago
@BibleFrW, where does the Son say he has a beginning in Prov.8-22?
ilovefer100 4 months ago in playlist Oneness vs. Trinity Debate (David Bernard vs. James White)
Let me just say both sides of the argument are wrong because arguments are based on false assumptions.
AikenBruce 4 months ago
- Revelation= everything becomes clear. The best explanation is to assume that your name is Peter. Peter wants to create another himself. This other is his special Son; he is an other yourself. You are now 2 distinct persons. Each one has his own will, his thoughts and feelings. How many persons are there? Three. How many Peter? Only one Peter. These three will always be the same Peter. They can talk and have fun together; Peter begins to create. Jesus= father, Son and Holy Spirit (Mt 28.19).b1
BibleFrW 4 months ago
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-Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are "THREE DISTINCT PERSONS"; Is it written? "Gen 19.24" shows God being twice himself. "Pro 30.4" shows that the Son already existed. "Luk 10.22" shows that we receive by 'revelation'; it comes from the Father (Mat 16.17). A child easily understand when God reveals to him (Mat 11.25). Everything is not explained because there are hidden mysteries: "Rom 16.25", "Eph 3.9", "Col 1.26; 2.3". In the same time, the angels saw the Father (Mat 18.10) and the Son (Mat 4.6).b1
BibleFrW 4 months ago
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- (1) Imagine that you give birth to your son and that he is another yourself, he is a double (copy, duplicate) of your soul and your spirit. There are now 2 distinct persons having each one their own soul and their own spirit, will, feeling, thoughts, etc. But they are twice the same person; there are 2 different persons but it is the unique person twice. The double is the Son resulting from the Father at the beginning of the creation. ...>>>
BibleFrW 4 months ago
- (2) This Son created all things. Later this Son came in flesh through Mary; he became a 100% man while God (the Father) look at (from heaven) his son living on earth.
- In other words, Jesus is an other himself of the ONE who is the only real God; so, Jesus is the One who is the One, the real and the Only True God. 1 John 5.20: "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, ... He (Jésus) is the true God, and eternal life."
- It's a revelation.
BibleFrW 4 months ago
-if God created his wisdom, he would have been without wisdom before it. It's the wisdom of the Son created and born BEFORE the creation of the world (Pro 8.22, 24). The Son was WITH the Father (Pro 8.30, 31; Jn 1.1). The Son has a beginning, but not as himself who is the ONE God who has been doubled (a copy). Father, Son and Holy Spirit have each one their will (Luc 22.42; 1 Cor 12.11), spirit (Luc 23.46; Jn 4.24; Matt 18.10; Rom 8.27; 1 Cor 2.10) and soul (Mark 14.34; Héb 10.38; Matt 12.18).b1
BibleFrW 4 months ago
Jesus was not deity. He was made just like us...a 100% human being. He was the Second Adam, not the firt God-man. the term God-man is found nowhre in the Holy Writ. Neither Jesus nor God was incarnate. Jesus had a "human" birth. He did not pre-eixist his birth as a spirit being in heaven with the Father...this would then be reincarntion. "For God has done what the law, weakened by the Flesh, cout not do: bty SENDING his OWN Son in the likeness of sinful flesh......
fountainhead6 4 months ago
3 persons. The Son had a beginning: Pro 8.22-30 (God has never been without wisdom). The Son is not the Father but is an other self of Him who is the Father (double): Luke 6.12; John 14.9a 'I', 'ME', the Holy Spirit too: Ro 8.27; Jn 14.16 'another'.
3 personnes. Le Fils a un début: Pro 8.22-30 (Dieu n'a jamais été sans sagesse). Le Fils n'est pas le Père mais est UN AUTRE LUI-MÊME de CELUI qui est le Père (double): Luc 6.12; Jn 14.9a 'JE', 'M'as'; l'Esprit-Saint aussi: Ro 8.27; Jn 14.16 'AUTRE'.
BibleFrW 4 months ago
@BibleFrW Jesus did not have two natures! God "twice": identified Jesus Christ as his Son, the one to whom he loved and approved. God does not lie....but our clergy do. To attempt to promote the Trinity doctrine, they must resort to neblous, esoteric and double-talk to convince theologially illiterate pewsitters that Jesus Chrit is God..
Jesus knew who he was, God knew he was, Paul, Peter, Luke, and Mary....all these persons of the Scriptures knew without doubt who Jesus Christ was.
fountainhead6 4 months ago
@BibleFrW Jesus did not have two natures! God "twice": identified Jesus Christ as his Son, the one to whom he loved and approved. God does not lie....but our clergy do. To attempt to promote the Trinity doctrine, they must resort to neblous, esoteric and double-talk to convince theologially illiterate pewsitters that Jesus Chrit is God..
Jesus knew who he was, God knew he was, Paul, Peter, Luke, and Mary....all these persons of the Scriptures knew without doubt who Jesus Christ was!
fountainhead6 4 months ago
@BibleFrW Many of the most learned evangelical scholars-when endeavoring to prove the Trinity and other post-biblical dotrine from the Bible, show that they often excel, not in their skill or willingness to reiterte, expound or shed light upon what the Bible does say, but in the craft of making the Bible seem like it says something it does not say, in order to uphold and perpetuate acceptance of traditional dogmas.
fountainhead6 4 months ago
@BibleFrW You simply cannot find the doctrine of the Trinity set out anwhere inthe Bible. Every modern critical scholar of the NT now realizes; that netiher the doctrine of the Trinity nor that of the two nature of Jesus Christ is explicitly set out in Scriptues. In fact, if you take the record as it is and avoid readng back into it the dogmatic defnition of a later age, you cannot find what is traditionaly regrded as orthodox Christianity int he Bible at all.
fountainhead6 4 months ago
amen
SJ89609 5 months ago
Why would God use Elohim (which is plural in Hebrew) 2346 times vs El (which is singular in Hebrew) 213 times?
Elohim or Gods Plural in Hebrew with a singular verb when God of Israel is speaking
Strong 430
AV — God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2, angels 1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1
El or God in Hebrew
Strong number 410
AV — God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1, Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1
MrHellowwww1 6 months ago
Part 2 - wrong with the Oneness theology of God. I know many of Christians on both sides operating in the fruits and gifts of the Spirit. Don't lump all Trinitarians with the many apostate, ecumenical and the "Just say a prayer and live like the devil" so called Christians.
Exdmaninpg 6 months ago in playlist Oneness vs. Trinity Debate (David Bernard vs. James White)
Also my Christian brothers and sisters, let us take heed to Matthew 18:6 - But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Me personally, I believe in the Triune Godhead (3 persons) One God. I don't have to use the catholic term Trinity. There are many verses in the bible that reveal this to me. And there is nothing wrong w/ that. Just as there is nothing
Exdmaninpg 6 months ago in playlist Oneness vs. Trinity Debate (David Bernard vs. James White)
Blessings to all! I believe we all need to be careful about what we call "False Doctrine". Both Oneness and Trinitiarian advocates can borderline sedition (Galatians 5:20). 1st, the bible does not teach against the Triune Godhead. Also, nowhere in the bible does it say we need to understand God as a Triune or Trinity as a neccessity for salvation! Trinitarians & Oneness believe in one God! Sedition is defined as dissension or contention in words. Be careful brothers & sisters. Mark 9:39.
Exdmaninpg 6 months ago in playlist Oneness vs. Trinity Debate (David Bernard vs. James White)
God isnt aMystery, he is revealed it unto us. Jesus Is God. Cuz Jesus Came in The Father's Name, Which Means The Fathers Name is... JESUS. & The Holy Spirit Came in Jesus' Name which means the Holy Spirit's Name is... JESUS. & In John, as well as other passages it State The Father is the Holy Spirit. Galatian 4:6 says God sent the Spirit of the Son into your hearts crying Abba, Father.. Which proves if The Spirit Of the Son is God, the The Son Is God. Jesus Christ is the 1 True Eternal God.
JIIBlessed 6 months ago
@JIIBlessed God bless you man! The bible teaches in Timothy 3:16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh , justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. Amen.
Exdmaninpg 6 months ago in playlist Oneness vs. Trinity Debate (David Bernard vs. James White)
Nature of God=Mystery.
We're not going to understand. We must accept by faith Christ is the Mighty God, Saviour, and Eternal Father.
Danielezerable 6 months ago
John Ch 14:8-9 Jesus is speaking he says if you have seen the FATHER then you have seen ME the disciples where asking if there were 2 but Jesus clearly states that there is one. And remember God is a spirit not 3 I will send the comforter in my name. Basically Jesus was saying dont expect to see 3 or 2 your just going to see me" I am who I am"
dustinp206 7 months ago in playlist Oneness vs. Trinity Debate (David Bernard vs. James White)
@dustinp206 Keep trying, they will hopefully see.
Danielezerable 6 months ago
If Jesus is not God, then Jesus would a lied. Jesus said I am. In Hebrew I am means self existing. Who would want to have a Jesus as prophet saying I did not say I God when he did? Not linear thinking.
MrHellowwww1 8 months ago
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bro william Branham said that both trinity and oneness are BOTH WRONG!
he said when you get it between oneness and trinity you will get it exaclty right.
some if the in between terminology that he used was Jesus was a Dual person, Father and Son were inseperable or yoked together.
God and Christ were in divine fellowship. that is why when Jesus said I have sat down with my Father on His throne yet John only saw ONE sitting upon the throne
dieselcowboy777 9 months ago
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Why john only have this?
Only john-ch-14-vs-9(only john has it)
He that has seen me has seen the father also.
Mark: no
Luke:no
Matthew: no
quranresponse 11 months ago
Why john only have this?
Only (john-ch-3-vs-16)
“For god loved the world so much that he gave his only begotten son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17- for god sent forth his son into the world ,not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.
Mark :no
Luke: no
Matthew: no
quranresponse 11 months ago
@quranresponse-The answer is as simple as them not being there when it was said. Nothing deep..... but since we are on the Bible why are you even attempting to use the Bible when you pick and choose what was allegedly corrupted versus what was not? In other words you all say Jesus pbuh never said He was GOD ALMIGHTY in the Bible....(I agree) Nevertheless when Jesus and all the rest of the Apostles say He is the Son of GOD you all say it was added or corrupted etc.
MANUAIM 11 months ago
@quranresponse-So what I see with muslims is that they (well many muslims, I have not met every muslim, but many) are just trying to cause confusion in the community of faith in Jesus Christ. Why would you quote what you don't even hold to as truth? The Quran was written how many years after the New Testament? At least 600 years....AND.....prior to this where was Islam(?) non-existent; however, the descendants od Ishmael were alive, so who did the follow? TOWRAH, satan, idols, or nothing?
MANUAIM 11 months ago
@quranresponse- See my point to you is that according to the bible Genesis 21:1-20...Ishmael and his mother Hagar knew THE GOD OF ISRAEL....of course we know Abraham did also, thus he circumcised Ishmael accordingly Genesis 17... So if Ishmael's GOD was Abraham's GOD initially....so when did Ishmael or his descendants turn to a different god other than the GOD of their father Abraham and Ishmael?
See all muslims are in rebellion against the GOD of their father Abraham! REPENT!
MANUAIM 11 months ago
Why john only have this?
Only (john-ch-8-vs-12)
Therefore Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.”
Mark: no
Luke:no
Matthew: no
quranresponse 11 months ago
Why john only have this?
Only (john-ch-11-vs-25)
Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life”
Mark: no
Luke: no
Matthew:no
quranresponse 11 months ago
quranresponse 11 months ago
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Did Jesus come for peace?
Mattew-ch-10-vs-34
Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth, I came to put, not peace, but a sword.
35- For I cam to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law.
quranresponse 11 months ago
Did Jesus come for peace?
Luke-ch-12-vs-51
Do you imagine I came to give peace on the earth? No, indeed, I tell you, but rather division.52-for from now on there will be five in one house divided, three against two and two against three. 53-they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, and mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother –in-law.
quranresponse 11 months ago
look at revelations chapter 4 and 5 chapter 4 talks about him that sits on the throne in heaven,it talks about god, then chapter 5 talks about the only one that was worthy of taking the book out of the right hand of him that sits on the throne, and breaking the seals and opening the book the slain lamb witch is jesus, so you have the father and the son both in heaven. so how can a oneness person explain this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
71german 1 year ago
@71german-LOL.... they can't..... oneness believers stay at Rev.4:2 and go no further (well some).... FATHER and Son in Heaven... it is clear! And Hebrews 1:4 teaches Jesus was made.....better than the angels in respect to His nature....then Heb.2:9 teaches He was made a little lower than the angels in nature for the sake of death.
My point is that prior to the incarnation Christ existed as The Son of GOD...this again destroys oneness doctrine.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
The Bible does not teach that God is a "trinity". Neither does the Bible teach that God is three "substances".
The Bible teaches that God is ONE, and that He has a Son, Jesus Christ, who is NOT the ond God.
Who does John plainly say that we are to confess Jesus is? See I John 4:15
"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwells in him, and he in God." I John 4:15
Peter plain stated who Jesus is: "... the Son of the living God." Matt 16:16
Str8Talker365 1 year ago
@Str8Talker365-Bless YHWH and speak well of HIS Son Jesus Christ. Let me add this to your comment also (maybe it will add to your faith in Jesus Christ as the Son of GOD). Not only is 1Jn.4:15 clear but John under inspiration of the Holy Spirit gets even more PRECISE in John 20:31 & 1Jn.5:13.
Both Jn.20:31 & 1Jn.5:13 destroys every mistaken notion that John the Apostle was writing to prove Christ was GOD ALMIGHTY, because he precisely states. We can quote him with 1Jn.5:13 & Jn.20:31.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM
Thanx ... right on, bro
Str8Talker365 1 year ago
@Str8Talker365- No problemo.... By the way... the reason I mentioned John 20:31 and 1Jn.5:13 is because many believers teach John the Apostle wrote to say Jesus was GOD ALMIGHTY; however, we have John himself telling us, not only who he believes Jesus is/was but exactly what he wrote about Jesus for us to believe.
In other words he says I wrote this so you all can believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD (paraphrased). He rebukes everyone saying he wrote to teach Christ is GOD ALMIGHTY.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM
Absolutely ... John tells us to confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, so that when we read II John 7-9 we can know that it is the Son of God (not God) who came in the flesh. THIS is the doctrine of Christ. The mantra "God in the flesh" is repeated over and again in mainstream Christianity and is just not the truth. God did not come in the flesh ... His Son did. To say that God came in the flesh is "antichrist" according to John. - Thanx for the good word.
Str8Talker365 1 year ago
@Str8Talker365-Oneness believers are in danger because they say the FATHER came in the FLESH denying that the SON of GOD has come. An anti-Christ spirit, according to 1Jn.4:1-3!
Trinitarians sometimes escape because they say The Son of GOD has come in the Flesh. Where some are in danger saying GOD ALMIGHTY HAS COME IN THE FLESH. They must cleave to the doctrine of Christ and the Apostles that Jesus is the SON of THE LIVING GOD and that Christ even in all His Greatness and Strength has a GOD!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM
Agree. The doctrine of Christ is that he came in mortal flesh like we are. Those who say that God came in the flesh because the Son is really God do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not then have God, according to John. That's how serious believing the wrong thing about Jesus Christ is. II John 7-10
Str8Talker365 11 months ago
@Str8Talker365- there is a fortunate and unfortunate context to this. Fortunately you are on the right side confessing that Jesus is the Son of GOD and that He came in mortal flesh. Unfortunately it is true what you said about those believing in Jesus Christ the wrong way....they do not have GOD=THE FATHER, nor the Son..according to 1 John 2:23 and even as you said with 2 John 7-10....
It is very serious and I believe the walls are closing in and there is no winking at this ignorance!
MANUAIM 11 months ago
@MANUAIM LOL ... and you also seem to have a delusion that this channel is som GRAND arena of debate with your statements. This is a Youtube channel that has had only 6,000 hits. We are NOT in some MAIN event with a championship belt up for grabs. Calm yourself down, and quit taking yourself so seriously.
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976-LOL you can't see how serious this is to me huh....How's this for you... At every point of time in Jesus' complete existence from A to infinity and beyond...since He ever liveth right now....He had, has, and will always have a GOD!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
excuse me I meant, SUM up your christological beliefs...arain, trinitarian, etc etc...
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
Did God leave Jesus on the cross prior to Jesus' death? For an excellent answer to this question read this short article at:-
w.onenesspentecostal. com/GodLeaveJesusOnCross.htm
(Obviously just copy and paste- adding ww and joining the . and com)
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
i would like to ask a question , jesus said believe in him and you would receive eternal life , he also said no one cometh to the father but by me , if there is no trinity name one person other than GOD could give you eternal life and boldly put himself of GOD ? Meaning the only way you could go to the father is by him
clients26 1 year ago
@clients26- It pleased the Father that all the fulness should dwell in Christ Col.1:19.... Read Colossians because it explains that the FATHER desired Christ's preeminence over all of HIS CREATION.
Jesus Christ did not come on His own will. He was SENT... He was SENT..... He was SENT....John 13:16 study it.
Jesus said believe in Him because this was/ is the WILL OF THE FATHER i.e. Jn.6:29. Jesus pointed us to the FATHER always in His speech, just study His words *first!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
"apparently James White feels that there are three personal entities in the godhead that can talk back and forth"
Yes, and the bible thinks this as well.
Wiedergeborenn 1 year ago
Yeshua is a human that YHVH dwelt within. Isaiah 11 clearly demonstatres this.
ChildofYeshua777 1 year ago
Mormons, JW's, and Oneness do NOT understand the Trinity. There is a difference between something not making sense and it being a mystery. Mormons and JW's don't get it therefore, they deny the deity of Christ which usually results in polytheism because, unless you're a Muslim, the Bible clearly teaches that Christ is more than a human or a prophet. Oneness, by contrast, has an inconsistent theology that allows them to affirm the deity of Christ while denying three persons, one essence.
littleman684 1 year ago
@littleman684- Trinity teaches GOD in 3 persons.... LOL .... Dude... YHWH exist in all who is born of HIS Spirit! So if there are 1 million born of HIS SPIRIT, it is no longer GOD in 3 persons LOL but YHWH in a million persons. Dude the trinity and oneness doctrine is false....
Jesus is NOT GOD ALMIGHTY.... He has a GOD and He stresses it in Rev.3:12 four times in 1 verse... People say they believe in Christ, YET they believe their leaders doctrine over YHWH & Christ & His Apostles. REPENT
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM 1 Corinthians 15:28 explains:
“When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.”
in revelations jesus shows that he is subordinate to the father.. but also he refers to himself as the Almighty, Rev 1:8. Your arianism doctrine is false!!
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- What I speak is NOT arianism and my allegiance is YHWH ABBA and His Son Yahushua Ha Mashiyach and I hold to the doctrine of THEE Messiah and what the Apostles taught in His Character and Authority.
In Mt.22:32 the Messiah taught GOD is not the GOD of the dead but of the living. The Apostles taught in many places, " The GOD and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Cor.11:31; Eph.1:3,v.17;1Pet.1:3) my point is the Apostles taught Yahushua who ASCENDED to ABBA has a GOD!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- Also go read the teachings of the One you say is GOD ALMIGHTY. Did He not teach in John 13:16 that a servant is NOT greater than his lord, neither he that is sent greater than the one who sent him. So my point is how many places do I now have to go to quote that (Yahushua) Jesus is a servant, and that YHWH (THE FATHER) sent Him? Jesus has a LORD and it is YHWH! When David seen what he seen in Ps.110:1 do you know this was AFTER Messiah resurrected? Rev.3:12 read it...
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- Now to address your posting of Revelation 1:8 how about we start at the beginning of Revelation 1:1-2! Check all the translations needed to see that YHWH the FATHER is revealing to Yahushua (Jesus) about the things that are going to happen. John the Apostle explained that he recorded the word of GOD *and the testimony of Jesus Christ. So even if it was Jesus speaking in Rev.1:8 it was only what Jesus heard from the FATHER about what is going to happen. (continued)....
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- If we study the gospels and the epistles we know that the elements are not going to melt at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. However 2 Pet.3:10-13 teaching that there shall be new heavens and a new earth. We know this is the New Jerusalem when it is ALL DONE... So who is coming when everything melts? THE FATHER is... and this is what is being explained in Rev.1:8.
Also Rev.1:4 clearly shows us a difference between him which is, which was and is to come vs. Christ in v.5.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- To go further...again I stress reading the NIV, NASB, in addition to the KJV and other versions. In fact as many as you need to read to see clearly what Rev.1:1-2 is saying. Now... if you take a look at Mt.22:32 again and remember the principle of the Lord Jesus Christ. He taught Himself that GOD is not the GOD of the dead but of the LIVING.
Now in Rev.3:12 the Messiah says He has a GOD 4 times in 1 verse & says that even in the New Jerusalem He will still have a GOD! REPENT!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- So your statement that the Messiah refers to Himself as the Almighty is false! My decleration is that Rev.1:4 makes a clear clear distinction between the one which was and is and is to come and Christ in Rev.1:5. Not only this but Rev.1:1-2 teaches that Christ in Heaven is getting REVELATION from ABBA about what shall happen! Not only that but Rev.1:6 says Christ has made us kings and priest unto GOD and His FATHER. Now according to Christ in Jn.20:17, His FATHER is His GOD!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408-I'm sorry to offend your conscience but I am not ashamed of the TRUTH! Jesus Christ is the SON OF THE LIVING GOD! There is no doctrine from any denomination or the gates of hell that can prevail against the WITNESS OF GOD ALMIGHTY who told Peter in Mk.16:16 that Jesus Christ was HIS Son. Jesus confirmed ABBA gave Peter the Revelation. This was the ROCK that the gates of hell cannot prevail against. The doctrine that Jesus is th Son of GOD! ABBA is the GREATEST WITNESS 1Jn.5:9-13
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- I am tired of hearing teachers, and preachers or whoever who say they believe in Jesus Christ teach He is GOD ALMIGHTY when Jesus never taught it Himself nor did any of the Apostles. The Apostles taught the RESURRECTED and ASCENDED Jesus HAD/HAS a GOD. This is clear... Many of these lying teaching say yeah Jesus had a GOD but only in His Humanity...NOT SO! Jesus is LIVING RIGHT NOW with ABBA and the Apostles wrote of Jesus in a present tense when saying THE GOD OF OUR Lord Jesus!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM first, did you read 1Cor15:28? He is SUBORDINATE to God the Father, this is why Jesus has a God. What does the term "Son of God" mean to you, and also what does the term "Son of Man" mean to you? 2Peter 3 is talking about Jesus you will see this in verse 18. therefore in Rev 1:8 it is Jesus who is speaking,he is giving his testimony Rev 1:2.. Jesus confirms this in Rev 1:17-18. Jesus refers to himself as the almighty in jn8:58. the apostles call and worship him as God Jn20:26-28!
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408 - I can explain this all but it would take more time than I have. I will reply to you though please be patient. I do not have internet connection at the moment and I am away from home responding to these messages. But I can explain John 20:28... LOL Thomas was only 1 and there are several ways to look at this verse. By the way Thomas was not there when Jesus said what He said in John 20:17 LOL.... I will reply in a more formal tone give me time I have answers though.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- EVERYONE is subordinate to the FATHER. HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY. Jesus humbled Himself and said unto Pilate a great thing, in fact to me the most humblest thing I have ever seen written about what Messiah said.... Thou couldest have no power at all against me, *EXCEPT it were given thee from above. Jn.19:11... Can you SHAMA? Can you HEAR? HEAR O ISRAEL....SHAMA.... The Messiah explained to Pilate the ONLY WAY Pilate can have power over Him is IF the FATHER gave it to him!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- If Jesus only had a GOD according to His Flesh then in Heaven there is no terrestrial flesh i.e. no human flesh and blood i.e. 1Cor.15:50 i.e. corruption cannot INHERIT INCORRUPTION. Thus, I GLORY in the TRUTH that the INCORRUTIPLE Yahushua Ha Mashiyach (Jesus The Messiah) says 4 times in 1 verse Rev. 3:12 that He has a GOD! He goes further and *PROPHESIES that even in the New Jerusalem He will *STILL HAVE A GOD. ABBA is the ONLY TRUE GOD (Jn.17:3), everyone else is delegated!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM your assuming unitarianism, john 17:3 is telling us to worship God, and jesus and also, read the rest of it, In John 17:5 it states that Jesus shares Glory with the Father! In Isaih 42:8 YHWH states that he will not share his glory with no other!! How do you reconcile that?
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- John 17:22 explains Isa.42:8... So in this passage if we say ONLY GOD ALMIGHTY can receive the GLORY of GOD ALMIGHTY...thus the mentioning of John 17:5... Then you have to say that GOD ALMIGHTY the SON gave the same glory He received from another GOD ALMIGHTY, to GOD ALMIGHTY the Apostles/believers/disciples? Come on....
The GLORY YHWH will not share is that HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY! No one else can or will ever be GOD ALMIGHTY. What Glory was it that Jesus shared with ABBA?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- Give me time but we will talk later I have to go.... Shalom... I mean you no disrespect when I write...
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM John 17:22 is referring to believers to glorify The Father on the EARTH, just like jesus did in John 17:4 so they would be in union with God through The Holy Spirt.. The Glory that Jesus shared with The Father, is stated in 17:5 "And now, O Father, glorify me together with Yourself, with THE glory which i had with You BEFORE THE WORLD WAS."
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- I believe that Jesus Christ the Son of GOD, LITERALLY existed as a person before the world was; however, people are isogeting their superstitions into John 17:5 by saying the GLORY Messiah had with ABBA was shared GLORY as GOD ALMIGHTY. Even if it was true that this glory was in respect to the earth's mission, it was still GIVEN before the world was because the ENTIRE COVENANT and MEDIATATION took place before the WORLD was... Jesus Christ has a GOD! His ABBA....
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- I would love for to get a statement from a trinitarian or oneness believer FULL OF INTEGRITY and TRANSPARENCY.... I would ask them to explain why Jesus Christ is quoted saying He has a GOD in every aspect of His existence that we know of from the scriptures. In Heb.2:13 before the incarnation, before the cross Jn.17:3 He says ABBA is the ONLY TRUE GOD, on the cross My GOD, My GOD Mk.15:34, after the resurrection Jn.20:17, in Heaven & New Jerusalem in Rev.3:12! Please explain?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM 1. Jesus says he has a God, because he does.. This go's for Rev 3:12 also.. In 1Cor 15:28, says that we are all subjects to The Son (including you and me) Then it go's on to say that The Son is subject to Him who put things under Him, That GOD may be ALL in ALL!! 2. When Jesus cried out "My God, My God" he was referring to prophecy foretold in Psalm 22 (please read it). The reason why he cried it out was to let the Jews know that they were fulfilling prophecy of the Messiah!!
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- So explain how Jesus has a GOD and will always have a GOD yet He is GOD ALMIGHTY? Explain how this GOD of Jesus' is GREATER than Jesus John 14:12 & 14:28 yet Jesus is still GOD ALMIGHTY / MOST HIGH GOD? It makes no biblical sense at all...
I understand we were ALL put under Christ.... Col.1 teaches YHWH's pleasure of Christ PREEMINENCE over ALL OF YHWH's creation.
Yes Ps.22 is prophecy but it wasn't planned by Jesus. He really cried out to ABBA it was an UNFEIGNED CRY!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- He didn't cry out to let them know He was fulfillin prophecy. Sir that is more isogeting. The only way I would agree with you is if you could show me Hebrew articles PRE-dating the incarnation of Christ explaining that those who awaited Messiah understood Ps.22 was Messianic Prophecy.
That time on the tree/stake/cross was Messiah's most dreadful moment of His total existence being seperated from ABBA. It wasn't a pretended cry it was literal ABBA forsook HIS FIRST BEGOTTEN!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM First off, according to matthew 22:42-46, King David refers to Jesus as Lord in the Psalms.. So psalm 22 in light of the new testament is a messianic prophecy.
Also, you are assuming unitarianism again.. I explained your allegations many times before. Jesus has a God, he calls the Father God. In hebrews chapter 1:8 the Father calls jesus God!!
read Psalm 22:24. regarding your last statement.
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408-Why is it that I cannot find an honest trinatarian or oneness believer on youtube that will OPENLY REPENT of there error once proven time and time again? Yes David is calling Jesus Lord in the Psalms but who is David calling Jesus' Lord in the same verse? YHWH! Once again it is proven QUICKLY that you are leaving out the truths written in the verse.
You focus on David calling Jesus Lord, nevertheless, I pointed out that the Lord Jesus Himself has a LORD using the same verse!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- I don't understand.... You say to me that David called Jesus Lord in Ps.110:1, yet Jesus used the same passage in Mt.22:41-46 to point out the TRUTH about who's Son He is! Why did you leave that out? Sir without being offended or even trying to offend you, I marvel at how many believers out there are screaming from the mountain top Jesus is Lord etc (for so He is Lord) nevertheless, the same Bible teaches Jesus has a LORD! Do you know who made Jesus Lord? ABBA did! Acts 2:36
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- So honestly Sir, your opening up of using first off, further amazes me that you would acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, but cover up that the one called Lord has a LORD! Thus I pointed out Isa.61:1-3 which is a repeat in Luke 4:18-21 and Acts 2:36 and Mt.22:41-46 and Mk.12:36 and Ps.110:1 etc. I mean come on.
You bring up Heb.1:8, which is from Ps.45:6-7, Yeah Jesus is called elohiym by His ELOHIYM, and both PS.45:6-7 and Heb.1:8-9 makes this clear the one called God has a GOD!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- Concerning Heb.1:8-9/Ps.45:6-7 have you ever read studied to understand Jesus' teachings in John 10:34-36? Well, focusing on v.34-35 Jesus is teaching that GOD called them gods unto whom HIS word came. Now in the Hebrew or Greek where is the capitalization? I have yet to see it! My point is that in Jn.10:35 god and God is 2316-theos, yet, we are abrupt to wise up and understand that one is a delegated god by THEE GOD, but then we loose this wisdom when Jesus is called God. Why?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM I have never denied that God the Son has a God! This is the person hood of the trinity. About your greek on the gospel of John. God or god is Theo, Theos, Theon, and Theov. (there is no capitalization in ancient hebrew or greek) but in the verse were it states "gods" the word used here is "Theoi" witch literealy means "Gods or gods". But jesus was calling them false judges! Amos 2:4/5.
concerning heb 1:8, how do you reconcile it with isaiah 44:6-8?
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408 - Your doctrine is totally contrary to what Jesus Christ taught, and Jesus was not teaching that they were false gods, being the FACT that it is YHWH actually commissioning them into elohiymship/theos-ship.
*HE called them gods unto whom HIS word came. Did YHWH call Moshe a false god in Ex.7:1 or Ex.4:16? No! You are denying that Jesus Christ is lesser than GOD ALMIGHTY and this is where you and everyone else slips into IDOLATRY the moment you say Jesus Christ is GOD ALMIGHTY!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM Moses was not a false god, he was a man appointed in authority.. what jesus was referring to in john 10:34-35, was a direct quotation of psalm 82 specifically verses 6-7.. and the word "Theos" is not used to describe them, the greek word that was used for verse 35 is "Theoi" which is plural for gods, "Theos" is singular! You may not claim into arianism but you sure do preach it, Jesus is equal to God in nature he is not lesser in being phil 2:6. but he is lesser in person 1cor 15:28.
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- In John 10:34-35 the word used is theos-2316 for both God and gods. It is clear! Jesus wasn't calling them nothing because He was not the one that was making the declaration Himself but rather He was giving those who said He blasphemed scripture by which they could tie His doctrine to. He was pointing them to what was written and taught throughout the Hebrew Scriptures. The HE that Jesus mentioned was YHWH. YHWH called them gods unto whom HIS word came! Jn.10:34-35 re-read it.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- It amazes me that you as a believer sir, would say that Jesus was calling them false gods. It utterly amazes me. I say this because in Exodus 22:28 it is a commandment not to revile the gods nor curse the rulers of the people. Paul submits himself to this doctrine in Acts 23:5. Yet you would dare to say Messiah was calling them false gods? IN THE LAW it is written of these ---> Ex.4:16, Ex.4:1,Ex.22:28, Ps.82:6
You think YHWH is standing in the congregation of false gods?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408-As to how I reconcile Isa.44:6-8 with Heb.1:8 is something I call the "Principle of Delegation". I am in the process of moving right now so I cannot make a video on it right now... But more videos are coming soon. Now... The Principle of Delegation is a concept I use to magnify the HUMBLE COMMISSIONING that GOD ALMIGHTY uses to delegate others into HIS operations.
Now in Isa.44:6 there is this word "beside-1107-biladey. Look it up it means except, without etc.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- In other words Isa.44:6 is letting us know that there is none other but by YHWH. Which again repoints us back to the principle of delegation. How GOD ALMIGHTY brings others into elohiymship. HE is the MOST HIGH ELOHIYM/THEOS/GOD... The simple principle of YHWH's word is terrible in that one word can change ones total being/existence etc. Unto whom HIS word came HE called them gods. So if HIS word came to one for judgment toward another HE brought them into HIS ELOHIYMSHIP.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- The fact we were made in HIS likeness and image should open your understanding up beyond the image of the fallen man. For too long now we have embraced the fallen image of man as the original image of man. NO! We were made in the IMAGE and after the LIKENESS of GOD ELOHIYM!
So when it says let US, make man in our image and after our likeness it is NOT teaching that YHWH was talking to other YHWH's, but rather to other elohiym. So man was made in the likeness of elohiym.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- The other elohiym that was present in addition to YHWH was HIS Son Jesus and the angels.
I already mentioned prior the BATTER swinging the Bat concept in respect to CREATION i.e. OF YHWH By Christ (1Cor.8:6) etc. but the angels were there also. i.e. Job 38:4-7, not creating by witnessing the foundation of the world.
Angels are elohiym = Ps.8:5 the word angels there is 430-elohiym. So angels indeed are elohiym, YET Christ is superior to all elohiym except YHWH-Jn.19:11
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- So Isa.44:6 is teaching that there is no GOD beside YHWH. After studying the word "beside" it is clear that this passage is teaching YHWH as the SUPREME ELOHIYM i.e. THE MOST HIGH GOD i.e. THE GOD of gods.
Yet we see Christ exalted above all of YHWH's creation especially since we see that YHWH seen to Christ's preeminence of all things. Col.1 & 2 nevertheless, we understand that YHWH is not in the rankings of the created things, but Christ is Col.1:15/Rev.3:14/1Cor.8:6
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- I shout it from the mountain top that Jesus is called God in the Bible. Yet when the one who is called God is teaching that He has a GOD that He belongs to, ONE that is His HEAD 1Cor.11:3....ONE that is GREATER than Him Jn.14:12, Jn.14:28, then I marvel at the people who blatantly REBEL against the truth Jesus teaches the FATHER is the ONLY TRUE GOD in Jn.17:3.
I rest upon the fact that Jesus was still receiving REVELATIONS from GOD ALMIGHTY! Rev.1:1-2 & He has a GOD! Rev.3:12
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- So after reading John 10:34-36 ( focusing on v.34-35 {even Ps.82:6}) if you still want to stick with the false balance that Jesus being called God means GOD ALMIGHTY then in every place that Jesus was called God = ({ Hebrew-430-elohiym}) ({ Greek-2316-theos}) then in any other time we see someone else called elohiym/theos then hold to the false balance of your theory and say they are also GOD ALMIGHTY.
See Ex.4:16,Ex,7:1,Ex.22:28; Ps.8:5 (angels=elohiym) Jn.10:34-35,1Cor.8:5
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- You are trying to pledge me to arianism and unitarianism and I pledge allegiance to NEITHER!
My allegiance doctrinally is unto what is written after studied, Sir.
You on the otherhand pledge allegiance to trinitarianism which has changed how many times since 300 AD? More than what? 10 times? Come on...
My declaration is pure! Jesus Christ is the Son of the LIVING GOD and the gates of Hell nor Americanized Christendom, NOR ANYTHING can prevail against it! 1Jn.5:9-13
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM Trinitarianism has stayed the same since Ignatius of Antioch , who studied under John the Apostle.. And since Turtulians writings in the second century, and through the third century with the Nicean creed and the Chalcedonian creed. and its the same today because the bible gives us the nature of God in scripture!! The word Trinity is not in the bible, but its a word given to describe the Three in one formula given through out scripture from genesis to revelations.
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- As far as your declaration of the doctrine of the trinity staying the same this is erroneous. The trinity has been reinvented over time from believer to believer. But I want to stay precisely focused on BIBLE and not argue the trinity outside of what is written. Now as to your declaration that Ignatius of Antioch studying under John the Apostle, whether it be true or not, it matters not to me. I know John told us who he believes Jesus is Jn.20:31, 1Jn.5:13.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- By you mentioning Ignatius of Antioch studying under John the Apostle, looks like you are trying to convince me that John taught him the trinity. *WE (KJV Bible reading believers) have written record available to us all showing us what John taught and what he believed. He wrote in John 20:31 and 1Jn.5:13 *TELLING US himself what he wrote for us to believe. He wrote to tell us to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of GOD, NOT GOD ALMIGHTY THE SON.... The Son of GOD.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM John told us exactly what he believes, Jesus is "The Son of God!!" What does that mean? please shed some light on the situation, also what does the title "The Son of Man" mean? and how do you reconcile all that with john 1:1, john 8:58.. The Son of God is "of God" the Spirit of God "is of God, The Father is God, They are all One substance and work together as one! Matt 28:19, 2 cor 13:14. Isaiah 44:6 YHWH says that he is "the first and last" Jesus says he is the first and last rev 1.17
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408-See I am so technical that I am reasoning with your words. When I hear trinitarians say God the Son, if you all meant Elohiym the Son I would not have a problem with your declaration because in all actuality Jesus is an Elohiym i.e. Ps.45:6/Heb.1:8, but there is a difference between what it means to be an elohiym vs. THEE MOST HIGH ELOHIYM. So your statement of God the Son is false because you think Jesus being called elohiym/theos means GOD ALMIGHTY vs. elohiym.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- Also the GOD in 3 persons statement is an UNDERSTATEMENT. Sir, GOD ALMIGHTY is IN everyone born of the Holy Spirit. So it is not GOD in 3 persons anymore but rather GOD in millions or billions over the ages up until this very moment.
GOD is 1. Gal.3:20/Deut.6:4... GOD was in Christ 2Cor.5:19 we know that, and the Holy Spirit's operation at anytime is both the FATHER & Son or the FATHER. The Holy Spirit is NOT seperate from the person of the FATHER.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM Agreed, but what i am referring to is "The Nature of God" aka Triunity! The Holy Spirit is a person, Acts 13:2, Romans 8:26, Acts 16: 6, Ephesians 1:13-14.
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- The Holy Spirit is not a person but rather the SPIRIT OF GOD operating or in operation outside of HIMSELF with people. Just like when Christ said WE will come unto you and make our abode with you Jn.14:23.
The nature of GOD is not a Triunity. Do you understand how destructive Gal.3:20 is to any doctrine that believes in more than 1 PERSON as GOD ALMIGHTY. In fact Jesus could NOT be the mediator between GOD and man if He was GOD ALMIGHTY! Because He was the mediator.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- We will talk more later sir...
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408 If you wish to educate yourself more on the oneness position,(from the horses mouth so to speak) go to the website, w.onenesspentecostal. com scroll down to the heading " theology proper (the person of God)" and read the articles before making such false and hostile statements,please. Thankyou
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@bigpanda408- So in every believer (BORN AGAIN) is the Spirit of GOD... And from Genesis throughout Revelation we see GOD ALMIGHTY operating by many... From HIS Son Jesus Christ to angels to people in the earth. So the trinity concept is an understatement. Just like many if not all trinitarians and oneness believers say Jn.10:30 makes Jesus GOD ALMIGHTY because He said "I and my FATHER are ONE". Yet the same Greek word for one is mentioned in Jn.17:11,v.21-23 are we also GOD ALMIGHTY?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@bigpanda408 Hi bigpanda, if you are a modalist as I am and would like some EXCELLENT study material to defend your faith, check out-
ww. onenesspentecostal. com
there are many topics but if you are interested in Christology, scroll down to the topic -
THEOLOGY PROPER (THE PERSON OF GOD)
Enjoy
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976 Thank you Jaysen, but i am a Trinitarian! Im just debating this man on his "arianism!"
bigpanda408 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- LOL at how you tried to offer bigpanda408 the oneness doctrine. The oneness doctrine at the blink of an eye depending on the oneness believer can turn into complete HELLISH doctrine. The moment you all deny the existence of the Son of GOD in Heaven you bear witness against yourselves, who shall return to rescue you from the times to come (?) if there is no Son of GOD in Heaven? 1Thess.1:9-10 is another witness against the lying doctrine of modalism and so is Jn.16:27-28 & Rev.3:12
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM You do not have a firm grasp on the oneness position. Oneness believers do NOT believe that the son of God has come in the flesh. Though there are some modalist who teach a "divine flesh" doctrine or some form of docetism, this is not the traditional oneness belief. We believe EXPLICITLY that the Son of God has come in the flesh. What we DO NOT believe is that GOD the son became the Son of God. Nor do we t believe in the doctrine of the "eternally begotten son".
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976 ....excuse me, ONENESS BELIEVERS DO NOT DENY that the son of God has come in the flesh..
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- The oneness believers do teach that there was *No Son of GOD prior to the incarnation. I have heard it many times. And you would have to explain more to me as far as what you mean by saying "we" do not believe the *son of GOD has come in the Flesh vs. believing the *Son of God has come in the flesh.
How can you say you guys EXPLICITLY believe The Son of GOD has come in the flesh, when you say that Jesus is the FATHER in the Flesh? Explain....
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM You fail to understand that you misinterpret (1 Jhn 4:2-3, 2 Jhn 1:7) , These scriptures have nothing to do with any pre-incarnate Son of God but rather the son dwelling in the believer. This is what John means by "has come in the flesh", read the context my friend.
FalseTrinityDoctrine 1 year ago
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- You say that 1Jn.4:2-3 & 2Jn.1:7 have nothing to do with a pre-incarnate Son of GOD but rather the son dwelling in the believer. First off I see that many oneness believers try to word play Son vs. son alot' nevertheless, my friend in the Hebrew and Greek there is no capitalization, not that I seen (though) I have heard some say there was some in ancient greek.
"come-2064-erchomai" definitely means something. Do you dare to look it up? ----> blueletterbible(dot)org
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- I must tell you that both 1Jn.4:1-3 and 2Jn.1:7 both deal with a pre-incarnate Christ. I do not know if it is better for me to ask you to study what the word "come-2064-erchomai" means or simply point you to Heb.1:4 vs. Heb.2:7-9.
I guess it may be better for the attempted wit of posting Hebrews 1:4 vs. Hebrews 2:7-9 in order for you to see just how powerful this is against the oneness argument.
Even by Dr. White using Phil.2 it proves a pre-incarnate Christ.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- My friend let's lay Heb.1:4 in the balance vs. Heb.2:9
Heb.1:4-Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb.2:9-But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
In Heb.1 Christ is superior to angels in Heb.2 Christ for the sake of death was made LOWER than angels.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@FalseTrinityDoctrine- My friend, my point is that the oneness believer overlooks the fact that Christ as the Son of GOD in the Spirit before the incarnation was made SUPERIOR to the angels. Nevertheless, after he came in the flesh he was made lower for the suffering of death.
We can even stay in the context of the video and parallel Phil.2:7-8 to Hebrews 2:14-17 to see both passages support the other. You mean to say you truly believe Heb.2:17 is not a pre-incarnation support scripture?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@FalseTrinityDoctrine Go to w. onenesspentecostal. com for more info. I perceive you are none to open to this truth. So why waste our time debating? If you want to educate yourself more on the doctrine, go to the website, if not, so be it.
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@MANUAIM you say that oneness believers teach that there was no son of God prior to the incarnation. That is true, so do trinitarians. The Son of God was not born until the fullnes of time, and Mary gave birth to Him. Trinitarians teach that GOD THE SON was before the incarnation. We do not believe this. We believe there is one God, the Father. Who was Jesus Christ before He came in the Flesh? John 1:1 He is the logos and the logos is the THEOS. There is only one Theos, the Father
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- I do see your making a distinction between trinitarians saying GOD THE SON vs. Son of GOD. But Trinitarians will say The Son of GOD has come or they will say GOD the Son has come. I have heard them say both.
My point is that I have never heard one trinitarian ever deny that the Son of GOD pre-existed the incarnation.
Gal.4:4 rebukes the oneness doctrine totally, "GOD sent forth HIS Son". Don't forget a child was born but a Son was given (Isa.9:6) Whose Son was given?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- I can stay within the words of Jesus Christ alone and prove He pre-existed the incarnation.
John 10:36-Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
John 16:
27-For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28-I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976:
John 3:13-And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 3:16-17:
*For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. *For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
How could Christ be the only begotten Son if He did not pre-exist the incarnation?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- In other words.... We all know by the scriptures that Adam was the 1st man in the flesh... Terrestrial flesh that is. Man was made from the dust of the earth etc. the whole Genesis 1 & 2 account right. Okay... So since we know that Christ according to the flesh was AFTER Adam according to 1Cor.15:46-49 i.e. the Last Adam was made a quickening spirit i.e. first man of the earth (Adam) second is the Lord from Heaven (Christ).
Now match v.46-47 up it is exiting!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976: 1Cor.15:46-47*Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.*The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
V.46-47 is about earthly manifestation!
Read Heb.2:9-17
Heb.2:17-Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- Now ask yourself how can the Son of GOD not exist prior to the incarnation when it says it BEHOVED Him to be made like unto His Brethren so that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in the things pertaining to GOD.
If you say this was the FATHER then now you also believe GOD ALMIGHTY i.e. THE FATHER, was our brother even prior to the incarnation!?!?! LOL excuse my humor but go tell your Elders that! They will excommunicate you. Seriously... REPENT Acts 17:30
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- I already posted Heb.1:4 vs. Heb.2:9 to prove the pre-existence of Christ prior to the incarnation. Come on.....
All the stuff I posted about Gal.3:20 in respect to what a mediator is and how GOD IS ONE. Yet a mediator is not a mediator of one....
On top of that you say there is only one theos, this is FALSE DOCTRINE. There is ONLY ONE SUPREME THEOS! There are many theos, from Christ to Holy angels, men and women, and even the fallen ones.
In whose image was man made?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- Even if you do not read Greek, you can find Joh 1:1 gone over all over the Web in Greek and English paralleled. It is clear that the logos belongs to THE GOD. Many still continue to overlook what Jesus taught in John 10:34-35... He taught them unto WHOM HIS WORD CAME... (not His word as in Jesus, but as in THE FATHER) HE called them gods-2316-theos.
This is mentioned in Ps.82:6- I said ye are gods....BUT this was established prior to it...
Did YHWH's word come to Adam?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- Did YHWH's word come to Eve? Did YHWH's word come to the angels? Yes of course being that they are ministering spirits SENT FORTH to minister to them that will be heirs of salvation right (Heb.1:14).... The list goes on.. Paul teaches lords many gods many etc. 1Cor.8:5...then goes onto say unto us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER... 1Cor.8:6..
Now pay attention to the FACT that Paul was calling THE FATHER THE ONLY SUPREME GOD vs. the only theos, even like Christ in Jn.17:3
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM You are not being honest with the reading in John 1. I am not sure what your other points are leading to but debating christology hasn't been my main focus witinh the past few days. If you would just some up your personal christological beliefs, are you arian? Just BRIEFLY glancing over your comments I am expecting to come across some reference to the New world translation. I am sorry, I mean no disrespect but I haven't the interest at this time to debate this topic
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- WOW this is awesome man. Here it is for all the creation to see. I ask you what you believe about Jesus Christ in respect to His identity in Heaven right now, and you bring up Christology and prior to the importance of the Hypostatic Union etc.
Sir, have I not tried in our discourse to stay sternly focused on what is written even after studied in greek and hebrew (?), yet you repay me with an attempt to pledge my allegiance to a man made sect of faith/beliefs?
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM I think you take yourself WAY too seriously. So you aren't a Jehovahs witness? I asked for you to ascribe your beliefs so that perhaps at another time if I have nothing better to do I will engage you in dialogue. Right now I am studying cosmology, objective morality and the will. I am currently focused on atheists right now. But perhaps at a time in the future I will deal with you and your rantings, so sum up your christological stance quickly for me are you an arian?
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- I told you my stance....re-read my comments on who I said Christ was prior to the incarnation, in the incarnation, and after the incarnation!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976-Have I not openly declared that my allegiance is to YHWH/THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY and HIS Son Yahuwhushua HaMashiyach/ Jesus The Messiah and to upholding these truths written in the KJV version of the Holy Bible and taught by the Apostles of Jesus Christ throughout the New Testament Epistles.
Sir, I am afraid to pledge allegiance to doctrines of men. If they are teaching it I need SCRIPTURE to ingrain it with my beliefs. What I post I will NOT be blaming any Pastor for it!
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- What have I posted on this page to you where I point you to anything but the Bible for my beliefs, other than pointing out scholastical tools such as the concordance/bible dictionary or the greek or hebrew language.
I pointed you to Bible and asked you a question about your beliefs about Jesus in Heaven, yet you run from my question and say you don't want to debate, yet amazingly you ask me a question in return about what my is my christological beliefs?!?!?
You're serious : )
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- How could the ones that YHWH HIMSELF made gods be fake gods? i.e. How could YHWH HIMSELF make Moses a fake elohiym/god/theos in Ex.7:1? Oh, please tell me you do not believe Ex.22:28 was about fake elohiym/gods/theos?
If so why would Paul submit to the Ex.22:28 doctrine in Acts 23:5.. Come on... Paul taught gods many lords many! And Christ taught the same teaching in John 10:34-35. Simply define 2316 in Greek i.e. Theos.
Jesus as Lord has a LORD! Ps.110:1
MANUAIM 1 year ago
@MANUAIM When my interest cycle back to debating Christology I will engage you. Until then, brush up on my the Oneness belief ..and many other interesting topics at
w. Onenesspentecostal. com Thank you and good day
Jaysen1976 1 year ago
@Jaysen1976- So I don't have a firm grasp on the oneness position huh(?) okay...no problem. So teach me then, and explain to me beyond what the website says...You (if you can) please tell me here openly who you believe that Jesus Christ was before He came in the Flesh