Trade Protectionism and Economic Nationalism

[westernciviliznation]

Yep. He is a corporation. And he runs your Government. POLITICIANS ARE CORPORATIONS... pick any politician straw name, at sometime- he's been bought and sold on Dun & Bradstreet.

[qwertypoiu4321]

Coercive trade barriers are criminal, and people that solicit/aid and abet/initiate them should be charged as such.

[manmanguy]

Wow, a Democrap for US sovereignty. Too bad he panders too much to the crowd.

[Sondre7]

Moron

[northmeister]

Savage...China has a RIGHT as an independent NATION, to be protectionist and we should not whine about it, as that is how we as an infant NATION built the Arsenal of Democracy...but...Protectionis­m with tariffs is inefficient, and not necessary...A law in all nations, that requires corporations to Make it here, to sell it here..with at least 50% component parts...would develop the world, increase exponentially the wealth of all lands..and restore America to vitality - trade in products is waste.

[SavageJim01]

This is probably the best solution I have heard about limited protectionism but also still being able to trade.

I just wish that WTO would dump the free trade idea and adopt this idea. I tell you what, I'm on board!

[SavageJim01]

JME, I am not a total protectionist as I DO BELIEVE in trade with china, but not TOTALLY OPEN trade when china has refused to drop its own protectionists strategies. They subsidize their companies way too much: That is Protectionist. China refuses to give workers rights and fair wage laws, That is Protectionist. China purposefully lowers its money value: That is Protectionist.

I say limited trade until they play fair. Then, when china is not protectionist, I say full trade.

[ultimatelinuxgeek]

What is lost in this video is the fact that most of the candidates in the runup to the 2008 Presedential race (both democrats and republican) were dumb. Most Americans apparently don't really geography and social science considering most (if not all) of the arguments for protecting the US against Canada are wrong. Comparing Canada to Mexico is like comparing the US with China - no such comparison can be made with respect to standard of living or working conditions!

[FlamingTide]

I almost want America to slip into protectionism... slip into another Depression, remember the error of it's ways and finally stop bitching about production moving to China.

Your economy has moved from a manufacturing based one to a service based one. 200 or so years ago you moved from a commodity based one to a Manufactuting based one. It's the progression of any developed country. Read an economics book... read up on the way things are. Protectionism breads inefficiency.

~Economics Student

[SPFerrie]

The Austrian School is dead on about economic productivity and efficiency. However, Protectionism is about preserving culture, preserving traditional power structures, and more. Also, maybe protectionists don't want the world's economy to support more people, maybe they want the people in third world nations to die off. That is just an opinion. Statism is protectionism in every sense.

[FlamingTide]

That's implying that people with more money have more of a right to existance than people without. We have to accept that most developed nations got where they are by being ruthless. Slavery, empires, wars, etc. Why should we be rewarded for our bad behavour?

Free trade is the best chance we have to give every man woman and child in the world a chance to work there way out of poverty at a small sacrifice of a few jobs in Detriot. Personally I wouldnt have it anyother way.

[SPFerrie]

The debate about Free Trade is not about economic productivity and efficiency...it about cultural preservation, nationalism, and more...Protectionists don't really care about efficiency...because a more efficient economy to be great for their enemies and the world's poor.

[SPFerrie]

The only society that totally free from protectionism is a Market Anarchist society...many classical conservatives hate the market because it promotes rapid population growth because of effiency

[FlamingTide]

Well my definition of a sociaty that is free from protectionism is one that treats all goods and services the same regardless of area or country of orgin. Naturally there is a sliding scale on such matters.

And I really dont know why we keep coming back to population growth. Nature has a really good way of Deciding population growth- food scarsity.

I have no dout in years to come we will A: Have a child limit or B: Decide not to have children because food is too expensive. Works either way

[SPFerrie]

Market Anarchism is the only "system" that treats all goods and services the same including security, defense, roads, and courts... but to understand protectionists here is a quote --- Everything for those inside the tribe...Nothing for those outside the tribe.

-Tribalist/Nationalist quote

[northmeister]

Further - the pauper labor of China (in our Fathers past Europe), causes relocation or outsourcing there (and to India) without regard to the overall inefficiency of production so far from the place of sale. By throwing our fellow citizens out and their communities that depend on them, these companies can make a quick buck with almost slave labor, while enriching petty dictatorships like China with technology and factories while allowing ours and the skills that come with them to wither away.

[JME1282]

slave labor. you dont know what poverty is. and a job in those factories beats working a corner or turning to a life of crime.

or would you rather china have a higher crime rate. would you rather more people in china be killed by criminals.

but that does not matter. those buck tooth lemon heads need to learn their place dont they.

[northmeister]

Wow....Slave labor is simple...a man or woman is not making enough to pursue his happiness (Pursuit of Happiness) in whatever form that is...A living wage allows a person to support his family, save at least ten percent of his income, have transportation, a home, spending money for wants - in addition to paying his share of taxes to balance the money supply out or as it exists now to pay for healthcare, defense, infrastructure, education, and information (libraries, media) free n open to all.

[northmeister]

JME...in other words, Trade is waste - it wastes fuel (we need for other things, all those goods produced by enslaved Chinese or underpayed persons, are still transported on large bulky ships consuming precious oil supplies)..anyway..trade is good for: Ideas, Inventions, Discoveries, Franchises (the toyotas, sonys etc. owned by nationals of a nation - which then send back 10-30% of profits to the mother corporation), and natural resources - here it should be free and open - in none else.

[northmeister]

Tariffs serve two purposes. The first, in moderation, as a way to raise revenue which is superior to taxing the people and our age could lead to the largest tax reduction ever. This method was recommended by Hamilton. The second, 40% and higher, a protective tariff, in order to prevent foreign companies and more so like China today, governments from undermining our own manufacturers and workers by dumping goods under value on our market thus killing off those companies then raising prices on us.

[JME1282]

well if you want to pay a higher price of your own accord do it. but why force other people to do it along with you? you are in essence saying that one group of americans should be favored over another.

and by the way protectionists in the early years of our country and early 20th century often had racist attitudes. coincidence i think not

[northmeister]

Your logic is all fuzzy...ratake math class. Higher wages, resulting from less competition to go downward, would offset moderate price increases (if any, because foreigner makers would want to stay competitive with domestic) - thats how it WORKED and how it would work. Further, you comment on 'racists' is utter nonsense - but so is so much from the fedualistic serfs of free marketism who have lead us down the road of ruin.

[JME1282]

ok, but why force people at the point of a gun to pay higher prices. thats what our govt does when it enacts tarriffs. how do you know that?

and why is it when we talk about the bad things of free trade we direct anger at latin america and asia rather than canada or europe? Canada is our biggest trading partner.

[northmeister]

You assume they will pay higher prices. The American standard of living was the highest in the world under tariffs - we had more wealth per capita, the largest middle class of any country, and the greatest amount of invention and innovation being able to get a start - because large, mostly royal owned, European firms could not take them out - that was our concern then (see aftermath of War of 1812 dumping) - I firmly believe all nations should develop their industry for sale there, Asian/Latin..

[JME1282]

if you could wall yourself off to prosperity north korea would be richer than we are. and by the way we dont benefit under tarriffs. NAFTA cause a great leap forward in our standard of living. the US is actually quite benign on tarriffs. look at our place on the index of economic freedom. whereas venezuela has high tarriffs on goods. particularly on those of non latin american origin. i have to wonder if this call for tarriffs and protectionism is really just an excuse to be racist.

[northmeister]

LOL...Walls, walls everywhere and not a drop to drink...Give me a break, that old wont work anymore....History, from Lincoln to Johnson, being the great Arsenal of Democracy (supplying free-trade Britain and socialist Russia), winning WWI and WWII, creating abundance for the Baby Boom 1950s-1970s was due to Subsidies with Reciprical Tariffs (as Hamilton advised)..and the dominance we had due to Protective Tariffs, as Jeffersons Treasury advised and we had...Racist? Give me a break, what nonsense

[northmeister]

...To compare America to North Korea is just plain nuts...Apples and Oranges...Freedom vs. Tyranny....To ignore actual empircal evidence, the true basis of scientific fact, is just plain ignorant....to throw out remarks like 'Walls', socialist 'Venezuala', communist 'North Korea' is just plain Fear mongering...American patriotism and American civility is made of better stuff and a society adances on truths not theories; so we Advanced, Germany did, Japan has - Drink some reality for a change.

[northmeister]

...And Lay of the Kool-Aid...

America will reindustrialize, revitalize, and remain a force for Good in the world...as we return to our ideals and away from foreign concepts like Free marketism/Trade and its low wages, and tendency to Feudalism...the few have more and more, and the many have less and less...thats not the American Way. Go back to History and Philosophy 101, read the actual deeds of our Fathers and those of Bismark and Japan post-WWII and see how it is really done. Good luck.

[JME1282]

ok first you love capitalism now you hate it which is it? competition is an assumed risk in any market or industry. i wonder if we were outsourcing to EI would you complain as much. or perhaps if people in one state lost jobs outsourced to another? why not go further and complain that someone else in your state got your job.

what difference does the color of a persons skin or national identity truely make on the ability to perform the job. or should chinese people only be working in brothels?

[northmeister]

What? Color of skin or national identitiy? Are you livin' in reality? Really, I'm concerned. Your idealogy has blinded you I think. First - my principle is simple, rooted in Hamilton's ideas, which were Clays, which became Lincoln's, T.R's, and then FDR's - that is MAKE IT HERE TO SELL IT HERE, MAKE IT THERE TO SELL IT THERE - its that simple. I firmly believe that the children of a nation have a right to inherit their prosperity - that applies to all nations, and nations prevent global tyranny

[JME1282]

still not answering my questions i see. you wanted to hold up tyrant FDR. whose programs violated the constitution. who 300k us citizens because of their race. and the other presidents who made treaties with native americans that were frequently changed, ignored and broken.

and what about freedom of association. and the pursuit of happiness? if giving a job to a chinese person makes me happy who are you. and would you rather they live on the street and turn to crime and prostitution?

[northmeister]

Wow...FDR a tyrant? You must be kiddin' right? Are you speaking of the Same FDR who advocated 'Freedom from Fear', 'Freedom from Want', in addition to the long established 'Freedom of Speech' and 'Freedom of Worship' - everywhere in the world? Are you speakin' of the American who though inheriting wealth advocated Equal Opportunity for all Americans (All men are created Equal), Social Security for the disabled and elderly (to be our Brothers Keeper, honor our elders)...Come now...

[SavageJim01]

Wait a minute now. China is protectionist. That is how they are milking America of jobs and money.

I have no problems wit free trade with China if China dropped all of its protectionist measures or at the very least trades on the very same level as the US, which is very open if you ask me.

Pay less: dont you realize people, HUMAN BEINGS are dying because of that cheapness? (near slave wages in very harsh condtions, unsafe, pollution) all to save a dollar! You buying cheap kills.

[JME1282]

its my money my choice

[SavageJim01]

Then know what your choice is: You are only furthering suffering of hard working Chinese people in those factories. You are choosing to further ruin the environment as those factories pollute. You are choosing to send American jobs, (even yours could be on the line) to china so slaves can do your job for pennies a day.

Your choice not only affects you, your choice affects so many others.

[JME1282]

have you ever even lived or even been to china? i just got back. you would rather be working in those factories that out of a job over there and on the street. and the west has put far more pollutants in the air than the chinese.

and they are paid in china. so they are not slaves. I worked for an ip law firm over there.

and what type of car do you drive in terms of pollution. do you walk where u need to go?

[SavageJim01]

China is the no1 world polluter now, not the US anymore.

Those workers are like slaves, sweatshops. They are paid, but they are very quickly stripped from that money because they have to pay their employers to live in company dorms; so what little they make, most is taken back by the company!

Cars in the US are held to strict US EPA standards. Does China even require their cars to have cat converters?

[SavageJim01]

Also, the next time you go back to China, go look in the factories. And not the guided and escorted tours either, those crooked factory owners do their best to hide the dirty truth about the "indentured servitude" of their workers. You did not see China, you only saw a very small part of it; the part of the very rich.

[JME1282]

actually they do. do you speak chinese can you read it. are you an expert on chinese law. do any of those sites that tell you these things about china mention that. I worked for a Chinese law firm. And by the way, not as many people drive there as in the US. because of a heavy car tax. I get the sense you are complaining about china being to restrictive. and then complaining not restrictive enough.

[JME1282]

they drive the same cars we do. and have a car tax that is normally around double. in all fairness.

but they drive the same cars we have on the road. and yes they do have standards for all new models entering PRC territory.

but many cant afford the fancy hybrids in china even when the tax is completely eliminated.

but i wonder what do you drive. and how do you get to work. whats your energy consumption.

hmmmm

[mujaku]

Paul A. Samuelson, the Nobel Prize-winning economist and professor emeritus at MIT has reassessed the advantages of free-trade. He said that globalization has its limits; that it is simplistic to assume that it is win-win. At some point real losses from trade could exceed the benefits affecting, not just local industries but doing serious damage to the economy as a whole.

[JME1282]

so basically is he saying that non americans do not have the right to make money ie pursue happiness. does the constitution not state that that is an inalienable right, tell me what is so constitutional about exporting poverty and unemployment internationally and forcing americans to pay a higher price for goods? speciffially?

[TheAmericanPopulist]

Ah the classical liberals always care about the poor people and that is exactly they are against the concepts of nation-states, protectionism, and immigration restrictionism. Adam Smith, John Locke, and Thomas Jefferson were very intelligent men. I will expand more in later vids

[JME1282]

forgive me for being for free trade, and free markets. i thought adam smith, locke, and jefferson were for those things. and you have not answered my questions. they are simple questions requiring simple answers. i assume you have the brains to counter the arguement

[northmeister]

Thomas Jefferson was for protectionism after the War of 1812. He criticized those who brought up his early support for it. Adam Smith theories were not accepted by the Founding generations but Hamiltons were which became the basis for protectionism which was our system from 1860-1970. Locke, if you read him, held similar views to our Founders but not entirely and was not the basis for their views. Just read the letters of our Founders.

[JME1282]

insufficient answer. It does not answer my question I originally asked.

[northmeister]

Jefferson like other Founders rejected Locke in favor of the concept of Creativity being the fundamental thing seperating man from beast. Money is only a tool, created by a sovereign entity (the people here) to form a means of exchange for valuables be they perishable or not; and to reward creative minds (inventors, entertainers, entrepeneurs) for their efforts. Pursuit of Happiness is pursuit of virtue, property (or goods) and beauty. To do so one had to be free, which is why Liberty is vital.

[northmeister]

Further - Our Founding Fathers warned us and American history shows us what would happen if we didn't heed their advice. After the War of 1812 American factories built during the war were being undermined by the British, so Calhoun, Clay, and the whole nation rallied to pass tariffs high enough to protect the new industry and America flourished during what was called Monroe's "Era of Good Feeling" something like the 1920's "Roaring Twenties". Free trade is un-American by historic standards.

[JME1282]

that was also an era during which slavery and opressing native americans was in full swing.

[northmeister]

Uh...and your point? Actually, the struggle with 'native' Americans was response for response...children, woman, and others butchered inhumanely (their way of warfare right?) so the American Calvarly responded, then another, so a response...a more advanced society and a less advanced society...refusal to progress on the part of their leaders, immigrants settling unused land, then killed..then response...Slavery? Protectionist opposed to that, like Clay and Lincoln..ever here of the CW?

[northmeister]

Further, in answer: Trade is inherently inefficient when goods could be produced in the homeland of sale, thus reducing transportation costs. More important, if all nations produced their own goods, then wealth could be generated more evenly throughout the globe. Comparative advantage is a myth, except in natural resources and here synthetics can help. Free trade as our fathers believed leads to pauperism and slavery. Hamilton's system (or America's system) lead to prosperity.

[JME1282]

if that were true than in 1812 would have seen a sharp decline in slavery yet it lasted over 40 more years in the south. hmm. funny how u have a selective memory on history.

and that if ur assumption was true we would have slavery in america real slavery because of nafta. and yet we dont have that. while unemployment is high it isnt linked to free trade. in fact actuall economists not politicians would concur with mine overwhelmingly. And so would penn and teller

[northmeister]

Really? Come now, you must be totally ignorant of actual statistics...Economists? Give me a break, they are witchdoctors proposing theories as actual laws of economics, and when those proposals sink, proposing theories to cover their tracks...nonsense, how absurd...Read Hamilton, Carey, Lincoln, McKinley, T. Rooselvelt, and FDR...they knew more about Macroeconomic policy than the economists you adore...THEIR IDEAS BUILT AMERICA...pre-FDR (Lincoln's/Careys) and post FDR until Nixon and free trade

[7boon]

LOL. What a douche!

[Rexanglorum]

Free trade is no different from new technologies. Both have the effect of making consumers better off and both will make some types of jobs obsolete. Over the course of several decades, we have seen millions of jobs lost to technology and trade as well as million of other jobs being created through technology and trade. The result of several decades of our country having a dynamic economy has been a rising standard of living for the American public. There is not reason for ending this dynamism.

[Rexanglorum]

Does the congressman know that "the workers" also buy stuff and protectionism is little more than self imposed sanctions that makes that stuff more expensive. Obviously some workers are harmed when their skills are obsolete and that is case whenever we have new technology or reoragnizations of intranational trade but society is better off. Considerin gwhat protectionism costs us in forgone gains from trade we should just pay every steel worker a generous sum to simply retire.

[citizenkong]

Dennis Rocks!!!

[TheAmericanPopulist]

I love his Populism

[citizenkong]

Yeah. . . the good kind of populism. . . not crazy right wing populism like Huey Long or Huckabee.

[TheAmericanPopulist]

Huckabee is crazy indeed

[TheAmericanPopulist]

My favorite President is John Adams

[RoyalOrderoftheFez]

No argument here.

[cmares58]

comunist

[citizenkong]

learn how to spell.