The social situation in the Tibet autonomous region is stable and border defenses have been strengthened, a senior official of the region said on Thursday.
"I can tell you with full responsibility that currently the region is stable and safe. If not, how it could be possible for me to take a week-long vacation during the Tibetan New Year holiday last month and come to the annual National People's Congress session in Beijing to perform my duty as a deputy with no worries?" said Padma Choling, an NPC deputy and chairman of the region.
Tibetans have just celebrated a happy and peaceful Tibetan New Year, which started on Feb 22 this year and lasted 15 days, he said during an exclusive interview.
The clique of the Dalai Lama is trying in vain to continuously create incidents in Tibet and the Tibetan-inhabited areas in the provinces of Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu and Qinghai, said Jia Qinglin, chairman of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference.
In late January, rioting and attacks against police and public property in Luhuo and Sertar counties in Southwest China's Sichuan province left two rioters dead and 24 police officers and firemen injured.
Evidence showed that the riots and assaults were planned beforehand and instigated by trained separatists, according to the Sichuan government's information office.
"The region's stability depends on how much work we put into maintaining social order as well as other efforts, including continuously improving Tibetans' living standards," he said. "I am confident in maintaining Tibet's overall stability."
He said to prevent the recurrence of a riot like the one on March 14, 2008, in Lhasa, capital of the region, which left 18 dead, he had been given a lot of ideas and learned from what happened.
"The implementation of preferential policies given by the central government in some fields needs to be further strengthened and have a real reflection on people's lives so they can feel it," he said. "The key to the region's stability is to improve the construction of basic infrastructure at the grassroots level, especially in border areas, and, of course, people's living standards."
"We need to have the spirit of inclusion and try to understand each other so that ethnic unity, which is the lifeline of the region's peaceful development, could be further strengthened," he said.
He also said that Tibet has always attached great importance to environmental protection.
"Although Tibet is a resource-rich region, we won't allow any kind of exploitation if it harms the environment and doesn't benefit the locals."
It's funny how the makers of this video purport to know everything in the Tibetans' mind when the entire time you see only these two American douches talking.
@TracyDomenica Good point, but unfortunately if you talk to the Tibetans on camera, they tend to "go missing" soon after. Unless journalists want to be responsible for the disappearance of the people they talk to, they have to relay the information they learn themselves.
For fuck sake tibet will always belong to the conquering chinese just like palestine will belong to the conquering jews. Accept and live with that fact
"What I saw in Tibet was the exact opposite of what I had read in the Western media." So says the Finnish scholar Eirik Granqvist in his recent article published by the Wall Street Journal.
Mr. Eirik Granqvist has lived in China for one and half years, and visited southwest China's Tibet and neighboring Qinghai Province. Be scared at first to land on a “totalitarian state” limned by Western media, he then turns to realize that "I could not have been more wrong. People, including policemen, were friendly and ready to help."
Also his travelling experience in the remote highland is a strong evidence to prove that "all this Western talk about China 'suffocating Tibetan language and culture' is nothing but a lie."
"After delivering my lectures in Dalian, Liaoning province, and Shanghai, I spent one month traveling around China with my wife. I sought the help of a Chinese friend to book air tickets and get hotel reservations. Where would we go? I wanted to see her reaction when I said "Lhasa", capital of the Tibet autonomous region. "No problem," said my friend. I got the same answer when I told her that we also wanted to go to the Xinjiang Uygur and Inner Mongolia autonomous regions and Yunnan province."
"Lhasa was very clean and organized where one could get anything, including fresh grapes and other fruits. We hired a guide just during our visits to Potala Palace and Jokhang Temple. For the rest of our stay in Lhasa, we were alone and went wherever (and did whatever) we wanted to. People, of course, were curious, but in a friendly and natural sort of way. Few spoke English but talking with them was a great pleasure."
"We saw very few policemen and most of them were Tibetans. Thanks to our visit to Tibet, we realized that for ordinary people, religious practices are part of everyday life. All official signs in Lhasa are both in Tibetan and Chinese languages, with the former preceding the latter in most.
In the parks in front of Potala Palace, Tibetans from the countryside were having picnics and enjoying their visit to Lhasa. So all this Western talk about China "suffocating Tibetan language and culture" is nothing but a lie."
"What I saw in Tibet was the exact opposite of what I had read in the Western media." The scholar writes in his article .
its so disturbing... the chinese created tickets to enter those 2 important buildings like its some kind of atraction :/ chinese xizang disneyland... fuck those occupiers!!!!
@sakurasoh Hey, thanks for the compliments! It has not been shown on TV, and was made only by the two people that you see feature in the films. We would like as many people to see the films as possible as this type of footage of travelling around Tibet is quite rare. Good luck on your journey!
United States of America has colonised the following countries: Texas belong to Mexico, Hawaii, Guam and othe Pacific islands "Liberated" during the World War II. France has Tahiti in the Pacific & Guyana in Latin America. Britain has the Falklands Island. Tell me who is right or wrong? Mao Tze Tong gave Chang Kai Shek the island of Taiwan to seek peace. Chinese do not kill Chinese. Western colonists power including Japan has slaughter Chinese. Chinese do not forget the past.
Terrible music, are they afraid of silince (Chinese Government), it sounds as if you are visiting a supermarket sale:"at your left hand, near the T shirts, you will find scarfs for 30% off". How do you distroy an old city?...that way...GGrrr
@funkfanzzify I think he is a freaky man, the tibetans like chinese are oriental people ( sino-tibetan). The things sometime are going wrong not on the chinese govt side but on the extreme and aggressive monks, who are out of minds and god to do criminal things. In every country has security issues to need polices in charge, throughout movies posted about Asian, this white dude is chicken, infront that chink polices said nothing, came out to talk shit
To wu mao dangs, If white people stole america and canada, why hundreds of million of chinese are trolling there as asylum seekers, illegal immigrants and migrants!!! Hypocrisy!! isn't it! By the way China stole Tibet and renamed it as China..but on the other hand America and Canada is not called Europe!!
@SephJoey gee who is the guy narrating?? he seems to claim alot of things that has no connection with what's in the film.since you actually went to tibet next time when you claim something u better back it up with hard evidence or other wise you are just making pro-tibetan fanatics look like idiots. =)
go and read before do any comment, Tibet was under serfdom before 1950, land and wealth were controlled by governors or Landlords, go to search who abolished serfdom, who assigned land to people,who gave the people real freedom...you dont believe that i will know your country better than you, so you should believe you dont know my country better than me
Tibet submitted to China at least more 800 years ago, how long is the history of US, about 300 years, where US come from?greedy Europeans drove Native American to the poor land and Robbed their rich land. Americans you should criticize your Ancestors first for they occupying Native people's land, and Europeans you should call back you greedy people and return the land to Native American people, 500 years after you return, China will do the same thing..
I was in Munich, Germany and I also saw soldiers with guns in the platz when there was a demonstration... when some people want to be independent you think the government should do nothing~ Tibet has been a part of China Empire for 400 year ~ Why do not support Brit break into 4 parts...
Do you think it is really easy to build houses and railways there? At least, Lahsa is much better than average Indian cities...Dont tell me Tibetans don't benifit since 90% are Tibetans there...
@tcl83 Over 90% of the people in tibet are tibetan chinese. Lhasa, the city with the highest proportion of han Chinese, has a population where only 17% of the people are han Chinese. Besides, with the arrival of globalization people EVERYWHERE are migrating. It's ridiculous to even severely restrict migration BETWEEN countries, let alone severely restricting migration WITHIN a country.
@tcl83 The DL was given 8 years from 1951 to 1959 to make reforms and he did NOTHINH. As soon as the CCP started making reforms in 1956 near tibet he started revolting as he, the landownes and the nobility didn't want to lose his priveleges. The CCP abolished the slave-serf system OVERNIGHT as compared to NOTHING the DL did in 8 years.
@tcl83 Regardless of whether tibet was dragged into the revoluion or not, it HAD been part of China for CENTURIES and it is undeniable that the 9th PL strongly supported sun-yat-sen's proposals. China has a MUCH better claim over tibet than the US has over ALL of its lands. The 10th PL was groomed by the 9th PL'S subordinates, which just shows what the 9th PL believed in.
Don't give me rubbish about how good tibet was before 1951. 95% of tibetans were slaves or serfs.
@tahenhao i dont know much about the 9th PL but I do know that he was exiled from Tibet into China because of some internal issue between him and 13th DL. As for the 10th PL, he was in a way groomed by the Chinese from an early age. Yet, he was put to prison for a number of years after he witnessed the suffering of his own people and wrote a lengthy letter in defense of the Tibetan people's suffering under the CCP. The circumstances of his death are also sketchy and he's said to be poisoned.
@tahenhao Mongolia which had declared independence around the same time recognized Tibet's independence. The British would not interfere on grounds that Tibet would remain a neutral buffer zone btn Russian and British empire, they did however stress that Tibetans governed their own affairs after having been refused entry with chinese visa. So you're wrong in both cases. Due to circumstances beyond our control, few countries recognized our independence but we were a totally independent nation!
@tcl83 The fact that time period to justify your separatist ideals just shows how biased you are. At the time China was in a middle of a REVOLUTION having been gang-raped for nearly a century by the western fags. By your logic the confederate states should be independent as well?
@tahenhao IDK much about the american revolution but I can tell you with certainty that even though the revolution did affect tibet immensely(as you can see by the current state of affairs) it was not what the Tibetans were interested in or cared about, because it was a revolution in China, NOT Tibet. i think the comparison would be better made if the american revolutionaries dragged along Mexico for the ride, and imposed their revolutionary ideals on them. No nation will tolerate such insolence
Ironic that the "reporter" keeps shitting on the goddamned evil barbaric chinks yet they had no problem riding the trains built by the goddamned evil barbaric chinks as well as staying in those modern westernized hotels built by the evil barbaric goddamned chinks.
Of course the "reporter" would be snivelling and whining about how "backward" and "dirty" Lhasa would HAVE been had those CHINESE BUILT hotels not exist.
Exactly. If China hadn't done all this to improve their living standards and modernize tibet, these westerners would complain about how nothing had been done to improve their livelihoods. However, since we have done this, they complain that modernization is destroying tibet culture. Basically, whatever the CCP does is wrong in their eyes. Killing all those native americans is ok but modernizing a place that has been part of china for centuries is wrong.
@tahenhao not to sound like like a supporter of western imperialism, but i gotta say this. I think more than any ppl on earth, 'westerners' as you might say are the most adventurous and have lived in the most harshest and toughest places, even though their love of adventure is often times marred by their zeal of religion, conquest or greed. so, please stop this weak argument. I'm sure SephJoey is tough enough to survive in Tibet without any modern conveniences. Besides Tibetans are there to help
Would you be willing to give up your own privileges, i.e your tv, your refrigerator, you car, etc, etc. Your assumption is that tibetans don't want any of this and would rather live in a small hut and die at around 35 years of age, which is racist to say the least.
Besides, if China had done nothing to modernize tibet, westerners would constantly be complaining about how nothing had been done to improve the living standards of the tibetans.
@tahenhao There wouldn't be such accusations if China hadn't invaded and occupied Tibet in the first place. That aside I'm not for a world with no technology. ofcourse we should use it if its beneficial, it'll be stupid not to. But the question is at the cost of what? Thats where I believe if Tibetans had control over their own affairs we would do a better job at pacing the developments in Tibet. Tibetans live in big concrete houses or tents, and my grandparents all lived over 80 yrs.
@tahenhao There wouldn't be such accusations if China hadn't invaded and occupied Tibet in the first place. That aside I'm not for a world with no technology. ofcourse we should use it if its beneficial, it'll be stupid not to. But the question is at the cost of what? Thats where I believe if Tibetans had control over their own affairs we would do a better job at pacing the developments in Tibet. Tibetans live in big concrete houses or tents, and my grandparents all lived over 80 yrs.
@lukebccb You talk of China modernising tibet and about the comfortable hotels, high speed trains. You compare that with Tibet 60 years ago....I mean, wtf. China was dirty and uncomfortable and undeveloped 60 yrs ago too. If Tibet had been independent, in 60 yrs who knows what developments might've taken place there. For all I know, tibet right now would've been a real Shangrila, where people have love and respect for each other, their environment and their culture, which is lacking in china.
@tcl83: you mean that Tibet might look like Nepal or (now OCCUPIED) Bhutan and Sikkim if it had stayed independent??? Of course given that WHITE westerners find it so "cool" and "wonderful" that the Nepalese, et al live such "rustic lives" that the WHITE westerners get to observe when they jump onto modern jets and jet to Nepal and the *imagined* Tibet so that the WHITE westerners can see the "simple lives" of the Nepalese and Tibetans and regale in their simple lives
@tcl83: yes of course, it would be terrible if the Nepalese, Bhutanese, Tibetans, et al.were to adopt western living standards it would terrible as thus the WHITE westerners wouldn't be able to jet into Nepal, Bhutan, etc and glare and look at the "simple", "rustic" lives of the "locals" and how they have to hike 5 miles for water as opposed to piped water or that they're not "simple folks" that will "want to show their simple lives" to the awe-struck WHITE westerners that have jetted in.
@lukebccb I've to say u're a very funny guy. But your point is also taken & i did notice a hint of han chauvinism, downgrading neighboring nations using words like 'rustic' wtf? I don't think the backward villages in China where 80% of the population lives is any better than a village in Nepal. So you're in no position to preach my friend. Whatever evil the white man has done according to u, the money they bring in the countries help support families. Gvnts are a diff issue if thats what u mean
@tcl83: "downgrading neighbors"?? Are you referring to a political and cultural environment/situation where a *MAOIST* armed insurrection took hold in Nepal?? An insurrection that was *initially* disowned by China..... until China realized the *political advantages* vis-a-vis India??
NO one is discounting "backward villages" in China BUT YOU are SO out of the loop about the *reality* OF China that YOU aren't even aware that China's population is NOW closing in on 55% urban??
@lukebccb I'm not talking about the political/cultural/environmental situation. i'm simply pointing out your chauvinistic tendencies. you sound like the 'white orientalist', portraying natives as savages, like you're superior to the Nepalese, Tibetans, Bhutanese. But thats just what i got from what you wrote. u maybe a saint for all i know.
As for the 55%, i accept my error. But, my argument still holds ground. your assumption that Tibet wants to remain backward is baseless. btw I AM TIBETAN!!!
@tcl83: YOUR reply on "80% villages" only goes to show that YOU ARE stuck in the PROPAGANDA of bullfuckingshit about the REALITY OF PRESENT CHINA. YOU need to start getting YOUR *FACTS* of PRESENT China otherwise YOUR "arguments" aren't worth shit as NOW I see exactly where YOUR "arguments" are coming from.
Oh all that wonderful tourists monies are transforming Nepal and Bhutan et al eh?? Then refer back to WHY THERE'S A MAOIST GOVERNMENT IN NEPAL? Bet YOU didn't know that eh?
@lukebccb easy there tiger. to answer you highly enthusiastic questions. I was born in Nepal. i do know about the Maoists. Half the so called maoists dont even know who Mao is. The political turmoil of Nepal is a diff issue that i'll be glad to expalain. Nepal's chief source of revenue is Tourism which was badly hampered due to the Maoist insurgency. If you're reading the news, you'll learn that the maoist gvnt of nepal doesnt even allow tibetan cultural celebrations due to Chinese pressure.
@tcl83: WHITE westerners LIKE YOU ARE INCAPABLE of getting past the "oh those quaint simple lives of those (inherently meaning "SUBhuman") 'simple' Nepalese lead....." and ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING that YOU are *jetting* *into* *their* *lives* so that *YOU* can "observe" the "simple" "lives" of these "simple folks" "living a simple life" ONLY THEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE FAR MORE THE INSIDIOUS *CHAUVINIST*.
Oh, I'm not "Han"....... I'm not even American. I'm a human being.
@lukebccb Ofcourse we're all human beings, but that said...I'm not WHITE or a westerner! I'm a modern Tibetan refugee. I think that describes me well. you might argue about the modern bit but i dont care about that. I do wonder where you're actually from, because you have strong sentiments against certain groups of ppl and a very unrefined view on Tibet and its history. I'd love to answer any questions u have, as long as they are valid and civil. I'm not saying i know everything but i can help
@tcl83: WHITE westerners LIKE YOU ARE INCAPABLE of getting past the "oh those quaint simple lives of those (inherently meaning "SUBhuman") 'simple' Nepalese lead....." and ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING that YOU are *jetting* *into* *their* *lives* so that *YOU* can "observe" the "simple" "lives" of these "simple folks" "living a simple life" ONLY THEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE FAR MORE THE INSIDIOUS *CHAUVINIST*.
Oh, I'm not "Han"....... I'm not even American. I'm a human being.
@tcl83: when YOU go and *REALLY* study - AND KNOW - the tortured history of the Qing dynasty and the expanding british empire and the expanding Russian Empire and european imperialism...... THEN GET BACK TO DEBATING ME...... cause otherwise YOU are nothing more TO ME than an NAIVE "idealist" WHITE westerner that doesn't have the fucking clue of the fucking ugly fucking reality of INTERNATIONAL *POLITICAL* RELATIONSHIPS.
@lukebccb Hmm stop hating white people so much. btw I studied international relations, also read about the great game in central asia, so i'd love to have a discussion. i dont wanna debate..its not about winning or losing, its about understanding things better. debating only exacerbates in angry comments, which im trying so hard not to do, specially when we're not face to face. maybe u can start by entertaining a relevant topic that might educate me and maybe i'll tell u something u dont know.
Hahahaha, no wonder why gorbachev is considered as a traitor by nearly every single russian. I wonder why we never hear of the native indian separatist groups as well as those in California, Alaska, texas, and Hawaii. Consider how your own government treated your own natives before criticizing others. No one can deny that tibet's population has more than doubled under CCP rule and that their living standards have improved infinitely
@tahenhao thats every single russian brainwashed by the communist party ofcourse. i dont know about you, but i hear about the natives in all countries all the time. you have to know where to look. Tibet's population was reduced by a sixth, when 1 out of 6 Tibetans died as a direct result of communist invasion and occupation, that still continues to this day.
You have to admire the constant claim of the west being brainwashed by its media and the Chinese desire to fanatically defend their government run media. Damn Google and Youtube trying to destroy Chinese harmony, better block them...wait, on what website are you watching and commenting on a documentary about Tibet?
I do believe Chinese government and its CCTV is good at lying and telling jokes. But I also believe everything you westerners know about Tibet is propoganda from western medias. I mean, C'mon. Propoganda is everywhere. Dalai Lama was just a religious dictator and slaver owner before he escaped to India. No matter what happens in the future, one thing is certain. Tibet will always be a part of China, even the whole China is not controlled by CCP !!!!!!
@maomao667 Chinese media has a MOTIVE for presenting Tibet in a certain way - to convince the Chinese people of something. Why would all 'western media' to do the same? What do they gain? WESTERN MEDIA is not one organisation, as CHINESE MEDIA is. Tibet was claimed by China through force & was not a part of China before then. You say u r aware that CCTV is good at lying & 'telling jokes' but r u aware that those same 'jokes' extend to your films, newspapers, music & school books? Think about it.
What those western governments want is to split up China and keep it weak. There is no need for me to think about it. You said Tibet was not a part of China. So tell me why tibet was also a part of ROC ( republic of China ) before the communists took over the whole China? Dalai Lama is just a fucking puppet of CIA. That's it. I totally support CCP on Tibet issues. Tibet will always be a part of China, even Taiwan ( ROC ) agrees with that !!!
@maomao667 Please explain to me how western governments can 'split up' China using independent media organisations? Your logic seems to forget the fact that in 'western' countries, the government and media are NOT the same thing and certainly do not get along. Yes, the words of Xinhua, CCTV and the Chinese government are all the same. Afterall, they ARE the same. This is not so in other countries. Besides, WHY do you think other countries would even want to 'split' your beloved 'motherland'?
Freedom of speech is often abused by monetary interests: For any news agency like CNN or ABC news, their main purpose is to make money and not to report the truth or give unbiased reports. The best way to make money is to tell the public what they want to hear, which results in this news broadcasters constantly portraying western civilization as a paragon of virtue while depicting China as a country where the government mistreats its own people and holds on to lands it doesn’t own.
@tahenhao I would argue that there are news agencies in the west, particularly here in the UK, that would not make any money if they didn't report the truth. But surely the very fact that news agencies such as those you've mentioned are individual organisations that not only critiscise the government but also each other, means that as long as you get your information from a variety of different places, you will not simple be fed one view point, as is usually the case in China.
No wonder every news agency in the west consistently blasts nonsense about China. Truth is, they are too scared to report otherwise, as westerners WANT to hear bad things about China. You did not go to tibet with an open mind, using extremely random individual incidents to say that tibetans are unhappy. Heck, I could go to any black community in the UK or the US and find way worse incidents than those incidents you used as a pitiful attempt to justify that tibetans are unhappy
@tahenhao I used the incidents I saw to form an opinion while I was there. That is all any journalist can do. Tell me, what did you see when you were there?
I saw that the majority of tibetans are relatively happy. Of course, there are a minority that will be unhappy with the situation, but that is the case everywhere.
Many tibetans DO consider themselves Chinese. China does not need to use democracy just because western countries do.
@tahenhao No, China doesn't need to use democracy 'because western countries do'. It should be democratic because 'it's a fair, mutually agreeable system' people have a voice. Of course it would be nice to have some comments from Tibetans inside Tibet on here.... but for that to happen they would need computers, which most can't afford, and they would need youtube/facebook/twitter to be unblocked. Doesn't that tell you something?
Censorship is for the sake of social stability. Besides, opening up can't be too fast. Doing so would only lead to chaos and anarchy.
Ya, what has freedom of speech done in western countries except give western media a better way of saying that they're unbiased when they spread lies about China? No wonder no major news agency dares to say anything bad even though its obvious that he's a self-serving hypocrite who acts as the wests dog.
Why does it all have to be about tibet? If native americans can get the American government to agree to let them be independent, then they can have their own nation. Deciding if it's worth the sacrifice to gain that acceptance or for the Americans to stay in the country is the real issue. Or the hawaii natives. Or the alaskan natives. China does NOT exterminate its minority natives like america does.
Apart from that, you terribly misrepresent history and lead a biased view by saying tibetans AND chinese. Tibetans ARE chinese but most westerners will say anything to say that tibetans aren't because they are fanatics who just want to see China split up. Apart from that, China did not invade tibet in 1951, it REUNIFIED it. Tibet has been part of China for 800 years and there was a revolution there. How do you invade your own country?
@tahenhao If what you say about Tibetans being Chinese is true, why not let the Tibetans decide this for themselves? That would end all disagreements wouldn't it.
@tahenhao You, my friend, are completely delusional. When and how did Tibet become part of China since 800 yrs ago I can't comprehend? Are you referring to the Mongol domination of China and most other nations of Asia? Did u know Tibet shook off the yoke of mongol (although never direct) rule years before the Ming (Han) dynasty overthrew the Yuan (mongol) dynasty. Didn't the Nationalists prostate before the tombs of Ming (han) dynasty to proclaim that they've overthrown the foreign Manchu rule??
The mongol empire was also a chinese dynasty. Kublai Khan declared himself as the emperor of China and announced the coming of the yuan dynasty. The same goes for the manchu's, who declared the arrival of the qing dynasty. Both of these races integrated with Chinese culture just like william of france integrated with English culture after invading England in 1066.
Nationalists NEVER regarded Manchu rule as foreign. They overthrew them just like EVERY OTHER dynasty in China had been.
@tahenhao D'u know about the Xinhai revolution? In 1911, the revolution overthrew the Qing Dynasty. Yuan Shikai raised his notion of “Five Nationalities as One Family” and later Sun Yat-sen proposed his notion of the “Republic of Five Nationalities”, meaning that the “unification of lands inhabited by the Han, Manchu, Mongol, Hui and Tibetan people. The saying “Tibet has always been a part of China” was born, completely ignoring the fact that Tibet and Mongolia had already declared independence.
@tcl83: this is where YOUR NAIVETE of PRESENT Chinese politics is ABSOLUTELY/COMPLETELY lacking. The CCP's basis of "right to govern" is based upon the CCP's claim that "we *reSECURED* - NOTE NOT *reUNFIED* - China's borders".
Here's a political lesson NAIVE WHITE western CHILD: IF China was to become "democratic" OVERNITE and actual parties had to compete for political power....... THE BIG basis of the new "political parties" WILL be "WE WILL ENSURE CHINA's POLITICAL BORDERS".
@tcl83: LITTLE CHILD, what do POLITICAL PARTIES DO TO EXIST??..... yeah *GET VOTES*.... AND HOW DO THEY DO IT????...... BY APPEALING TO *WHATEVER* *COUNTS*.
What do YOU think a *political party* IN CHINA would do *WITH A POPULATION THAT IS 93% HAN* WHEN the question becomes "ON A NATIONAL VOTE will decide if tibet shall be independent"???
WHEN YOU START GETTING OVER *YOUR* NAIVETE...... get back to me.....
@lukebccb I think I'm over my 'naivete'! so getting back to you my chinese friend who doesnt want to proclaim he's chinese. I'm guessing you're chinese by the sheer intensity of your arguments for china. anyways thats beside the point. AND ONCE AGAIN I AM TIBETAN.just making sure! So firstly, I didn't mention the CCP, i was talking about the nationalists under yuan shikai that made claims over Tibet, whch they believed was within the sphere of Chinese rule following claims made by Qing dynasty
As for your view on political parties. ofcourse without a doubt, their legitimacy is based on the votes they get from the ppl, and they might go about securing those votes through whatever way there is. So correct me if I'm wrong. You're implying either that whether there is democracy in china or not, Tibet will remain a part of China simply because the majority Han ethnicity deems it so? Is tht the master plan? to bring han settlers into Tibet to offset the demographics in favor of Han interest
The mongol empire was also a chinese dynasty. Kublai Khan declared himself as the emperor of China and announced the coming of the yuan dynasty. The same goes for the manchu's, who declared the arrival of the qing dynasty. Both of these races integrated with Chinese culture just like william of france integrated with English culture after invading England in 1066.
Nationalists NEVER regarded Manchu rule as foreign. They overthrew them just like EVERY OTHER dynasty in China had been.
Truth is, most westerners(especially Americans) loathe the idea of China becoming no.1 in the world and they would much rather hear terrible things about China than hearing the truth. Western countries want to split up China because thats the most efficient way of weakening it, which is what they did to the USSR.
@tahenhao The USSR broke up not only b/c US scheming but because the occupied nations that were being colonized by the Red Army were aching for freedom, and because thanks to Gorbachev who had heart enough to give some freedom to the territories (which ofcourse seems like a bad idea from the point of view of the regime but from a human perspective, a great move) Thats why China is so tight-fisted about its occupied regions, because it sees its own fate as USSR if it gives its ppl more freedom.
@tahenhao Because 'this westerner' went there and experienced it. Yes, the city is probably very nice... if you are Chinese. But not if you are Tibetan.
@tahenhao There's a Tibetan story of a guy who has a golden vase with shit inside it. So he's shining up the exterior and its all glittery and pretty but then in the end, the truth is its full of shit!! thats how China has made Tibet.
China has proved repeatedly over in the past three decades that its own governing system has many strengths compared to democracy. For all its faults, none of these faults can compare to the fact that it has raised more people out of poverty than any other government, monarchy, or regime in the history of mankind. Now thats human rights for you.
@tahenhao Censorship is for the sake of GOVERNMENT stability. Not social stability. Let's not forget that a government and a country are not the same thing. You ask what has freedom of speech done? You're able to have this conversation on youtube for a start. And to be honest, anyone who still uses any variant of the phrase 'western running dog' has clearly been getting their news from a single source for the past 60 years anyway. But still, it's been an interesting discussion, thanks.
No, it is for the sake of social stability. If people start causing havoc and it spreads, then it will be extremely hard to continue the progress that China has enjoyed for so long.
And no, I read much of my news from western media sources but they just keep on getting more and more biased. No wonder the CIA spent so much time trying to split tibet from China. No wonder the US keeps on selling weapons to taiwan. Of course, they don't want to split up China,
For all you say, it doesn't change the fact that you deliberately misrepresent history by making it seem that Tibet was never part of China. What an "unbiased" documentary.
@tahenhao You yourself used the word 'REUNIFICATION'. Does that not imply that Tibet and China were NOT unified? How can you REunify two places that are both China?
@maomao667 You asked why Tibet was part of ROC. Firstly, Tibet wasn't a part of ROC. Secondly, the nationalists (sadly) thought that all territories (allegedly) under Manchu rule must now be under their rule as well. Its funny how history repeats itself. Just as in the 14th c. Tibet became independent from Mongol rule, in 1913 Tibet declared independence (after bloody massacres by Manchu general Chao Erfeng, later defeated by Tibetans, thanks 2 chinese overthrow of their foreign lords in china.)
What a typical brainless and ignorant western idiot you are ! If you want to split China up by its races, why don't you go to north east China and ask those manchurians whether they want independence and get their manchu empire back. China consists of 56 different ethnicities. I think you should really go ask every one of them do they want to become independent or not. Stupid white fuck.
@maomao667 Thats a good idea. why don't we ask the people themselves whether they want independence or not? I don't really want to speak for other ethnic minorities, but I myself being a Tibetan (don't know how you came to the conclusion that i was white) would love to have the opportunity to vote whether we want independence or remain under PRC. I'm pretty sure the Uighurs would love to be independent too, maybe even the Mongolians in inner Mongolia. Whereas the Manchus have been sinicized.
@tcl83: "Inner Mongolia" is now 85% Han. If that "choice" was given that 85% would decide. In Xinjiang the population is almost 50% Han with a sizable Hui population that pushes the "Chinese" population past 50%. If you include the Kazakh and Mongols in Xinjiang, then the Uighurs become a clear minority.
@maomao667 I think it'd be better if the whole of China would be under Tibetans, then we can all live in peace and harmony as Tibetans. don't like the sound of it?? well then shut up with your own blabbering. Tibet will always be Tibet. Don't believe me? Look at a contour map of the world. Its clear for all to see, the natural boundaries of the roof of the world, the pure land and the high peaks of our fatherland will forever bear witness to the courage of Tibetan spirit.
You know what I am thinking? I think all you greedy white colonists should get your ass back to England and give the land back to native American - the Indians, or you should be under Indians. Just like what you said history always repeat itself, yea,take a look at Afghan and Iraq. You fucking dumbass. You are doing the same thing like what you did to native Indians !!!
@maomao667 as you might've known I'm Tibetan and I'm not arguing about the history of western colonialism, which is itself a whole different matter that has been thoroughly and extensively dealt with by scholars from all over the world.
And finally, Tibet will always be a part of China, just like Xinjiang, Manchu, etc. China will never become like the split USSR and Yugoslavia. It can only happen in your dreams.
@maomao667 and as you've seen with the advent of flight technology, space travel, and american idol for that matter...DREAMS DO COME TRUE sometimes..! Maybe for ppl like you, crumbling under the system and giving up is an option, but for us Tibetans we have "semshook" (soul strength) and trust me, its gonna take a whole lot more than guns and propaganda to break it.
The social situation in the Tibet autonomous region is stable and border defenses have been strengthened, a senior official of the region said on Thursday.
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
"I can tell you with full responsibility that currently the region is stable and safe. If not, how it could be possible for me to take a week-long vacation during the Tibetan New Year holiday last month and come to the annual National People's Congress session in Beijing to perform my duty as a deputy with no worries?" said Padma Choling, an NPC deputy and chairman of the region.
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
Tibetans have just celebrated a happy and peaceful Tibetan New Year, which started on Feb 22 this year and lasted 15 days, he said during an exclusive interview.
The clique of the Dalai Lama is trying in vain to continuously create incidents in Tibet and the Tibetan-inhabited areas in the provinces of Sichuan, Yunnan, Gansu and Qinghai, said Jia Qinglin, chairman of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference.
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
In late January, rioting and attacks against police and public property in Luhuo and Sertar counties in Southwest China's Sichuan province left two rioters dead and 24 police officers and firemen injured.
Evidence showed that the riots and assaults were planned beforehand and instigated by trained separatists, according to the Sichuan government's information office.
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
"The region's stability depends on how much work we put into maintaining social order as well as other efforts, including continuously improving Tibetans' living standards," he said. "I am confident in maintaining Tibet's overall stability."
He said to prevent the recurrence of a riot like the one on March 14, 2008, in Lhasa, capital of the region, which left 18 dead, he had been given a lot of ideas and learned from what happened.
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
"The implementation of preferential policies given by the central government in some fields needs to be further strengthened and have a real reflection on people's lives so they can feel it," he said. "The key to the region's stability is to improve the construction of basic infrastructure at the grassroots level, especially in border areas, and, of course, people's living standards."
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
People will only appreciate the government's efforts after they actually feel that their lives have been improved, he added.
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
"We need to have the spirit of inclusion and try to understand each other so that ethnic unity, which is the lifeline of the region's peaceful development, could be further strengthened," he said.
He also said that Tibet has always attached great importance to environmental protection.
"Although Tibet is a resource-rich region, we won't allow any kind of exploitation if it harms the environment and doesn't benefit the locals."
BarbaraShigley 16 hours ago
It's funny how the makers of this video purport to know everything in the Tibetans' mind when the entire time you see only these two American douches talking.
TracyDomenica 22 hours ago
@TracyDomenica Good point, but unfortunately if you talk to the Tibetans on camera, they tend to "go missing" soon after. Unless journalists want to be responsible for the disappearance of the people they talk to, they have to relay the information they learn themselves.
SephJoey 21 hours ago
For fuck sake tibet will always belong to the conquering chinese just like palestine will belong to the conquering jews. Accept and live with that fact
ginost7 1 week ago
Give back independence for Tibet country now.
Shame on Chinese invader
BAIYUE1 1 week ago
lol goood job, looks like amateur documentary but good job entertaining me in demonizing china lol
simple soldiers walking around smiling are portrayed as if they are evil brutal L.A.P.D. cops LOL
MyNameISfockYou 1 week ago
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"What I saw in Tibet was the exact opposite of what I had read in the Western media." So says the Finnish scholar Eirik Granqvist in his recent article published by the Wall Street Journal.
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 9
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Mr. Eirik Granqvist has lived in China for one and half years, and visited southwest China's Tibet and neighboring Qinghai Province. Be scared at first to land on a “totalitarian state” limned by Western media, he then turns to realize that "I could not have been more wrong. People, including policemen, were friendly and ready to help."
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 9
Also his travelling experience in the remote highland is a strong evidence to prove that "all this Western talk about China 'suffocating Tibetan language and culture' is nothing but a lie."
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 3
"After delivering my lectures in Dalian, Liaoning province, and Shanghai, I spent one month traveling around China with my wife. I sought the help of a Chinese friend to book air tickets and get hotel reservations. Where would we go? I wanted to see her reaction when I said "Lhasa", capital of the Tibet autonomous region. "No problem," said my friend. I got the same answer when I told her that we also wanted to go to the Xinjiang Uygur and Inner Mongolia autonomous regions and Yunnan province."
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 2
@BarbaraShigley So why is Tibet closed to foreigners at this very moment?
SephJoey 1 week ago
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"Lhasa was very clean and organized where one could get anything, including fresh grapes and other fruits. We hired a guide just during our visits to Potala Palace and Jokhang Temple. For the rest of our stay in Lhasa, we were alone and went wherever (and did whatever) we wanted to. People, of course, were curious, but in a friendly and natural sort of way. Few spoke English but talking with them was a great pleasure."
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 6
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"We saw very few policemen and most of them were Tibetans. Thanks to our visit to Tibet, we realized that for ordinary people, religious practices are part of everyday life. All official signs in Lhasa are both in Tibetan and Chinese languages, with the former preceding the latter in most.
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 6
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In the parks in front of Potala Palace, Tibetans from the countryside were having picnics and enjoying their visit to Lhasa. So all this Western talk about China "suffocating Tibetan language and culture" is nothing but a lie."
"What I saw in Tibet was the exact opposite of what I had read in the Western media." The scholar writes in his article .
BarbaraShigley 1 week ago 6
its so disturbing... the chinese created tickets to enter those 2 important buildings like its some kind of atraction :/ chinese xizang disneyland... fuck those occupiers!!!!
TheMightyGuri 1 week ago 2
Tibetans are basically foreigners in their own country! :(
RealityHackerXXI 1 week ago
@RealityHackerXXI own country? lol they don't have a country any more!
Yamatopetro 1 day ago
@SephJoey what is this piece of music please? (the piece that starts @ 4:00 and goes to 5:30)
zoo899 2 weeks ago
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zoo899 2 weeks ago
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zoo899 2 weeks ago
FREEDOM FOR TIBET !
Shame on China ! 60 years of Brutality ! So sad !!!!
TibetArchive 3 weeks ago
Was this by any chance a TV documentary? It was good and the narrator's voice is just perfect
sakurasoh 1 month ago 2
@sakurasoh Hey, thanks for the compliments! It has not been shown on TV, and was made only by the two people that you see feature in the films. We would like as many people to see the films as possible as this type of footage of travelling around Tibet is quite rare. Good luck on your journey!
SephJoey 1 month ago
Great video...
TheAviation2009 1 month ago 3
United States of America has colonised the following countries: Texas belong to Mexico, Hawaii, Guam and othe Pacific islands "Liberated" during the World War II. France has Tahiti in the Pacific & Guyana in Latin America. Britain has the Falklands Island. Tell me who is right or wrong? Mao Tze Tong gave Chang Kai Shek the island of Taiwan to seek peace. Chinese do not kill Chinese. Western colonists power including Japan has slaughter Chinese. Chinese do not forget the past.
jzhang1952 1 month ago
Lhasa is not pronounced with a z. Just sayin.
RKungaChodron 1 month ago
@aerbeisi3 "The Whites" ?? I think you'll find it is the Tibetans themselves who are against the railways and guns. Not "the whites".
SephJoey 1 month ago
NO ARMY MORE TERRORIST ATTACK
Mrmasiona 2 months ago
Terrible music, are they afraid of silince (Chinese Government), it sounds as if you are visiting a supermarket sale:"at your left hand, near the T shirts, you will find scarfs for 30% off". How do you distroy an old city?...that way...GGrrr
funkfanzzify 2 months ago 5
@funkfanzzify I think he is a freaky man, the tibetans like chinese are oriental people ( sino-tibetan). The things sometime are going wrong not on the chinese govt side but on the extreme and aggressive monks, who are out of minds and god to do criminal things. In every country has security issues to need polices in charge, throughout movies posted about Asian, this white dude is chicken, infront that chink polices said nothing, came out to talk shit
xmen9991000 2 weeks ago
@funkfanzzify The "music" is part of the Tibetan religious tradition, you ignorant ass.
TracyDomenica 22 hours ago
To wu mao dangs, If white people stole america and canada, why hundreds of million of chinese are trolling there as asylum seekers, illegal immigrants and migrants!!! Hypocrisy!! isn't it! By the way China stole Tibet and renamed it as China..but on the other hand America and Canada is not called Europe!!
MsKushh 2 months ago 2
so many people want to free Tibet, I wonder why nobody wants to free America, give it back to first nation people. double standards.
DJ198964 2 months ago
@DJ198964 free tibet is a pop slogan.it is cheap and no value.just a popular elements and it make you feel cool.just so so
kaonimageilaozigun 1 month ago
@DJ198964 AMIN!!!!!!!
Rohit84up 1 month ago
whats up with this eerie/creepy background sound, thumbs down for biased doco
blueice990 2 months ago
Great, well done.
mulderfa1 2 months ago 4
Very informative documentary that definitely shows what China is doing in Tibet, doing to Tibetans.
TibetArchive 3 months ago
thumbs up if you can hear Bollywood music in the background in the restaurant.
ladiezman80 3 months ago
Today's White Guys on North America are descendent of European low lives, and thugs; they have evolved to steal Oil from around the world.
redapple5413 3 months ago
The hatred between US and China is deep! White light hatred!!!
Chinese people hate Red Neck, Cracker head, and other US low lives deep into the BONE!!!
What your B-astard US had done to Han Chinese in 2008 is never forgotten!!!
You US b-astards will get your share some day!!!
You mother f_ucker B-astard remember what I tell you!!!
if China does not die, then f-ucking low lives America will go to hell !!!
If Low lives America does not go to hell, China will go to hell !!!
redapple5413 3 months ago
@redapple5413 LOL.
Chink.
Eat5hitCrytek 3 months ago 3
@redapple5413 Japan should have crushed you.
usamuun 3 months ago
Great host.
hummurabi2010 3 months ago 5
Wow, all those 5 mao keep adding up! Click click click click!! You go guys! Make yourself some cash.
SephJoey 3 months ago 2
@SephJoey gee who is the guy narrating?? he seems to claim alot of things that has no connection with what's in the film.since you actually went to tibet next time when you claim something u better back it up with hard evidence or other wise you are just making pro-tibetan fanatics look like idiots. =)
obsidianstatue 4 weeks ago
this USevil empire was founded by low lives from Europe, today this evil empire is continue build on low lives, Bandits from around the world...
The US founding fathers were low lives, bandits from Europe.
Today's White Guys on North America are descendent of European low lives, and thugs; they have evolved to steal Oil from around the world.
redapple5413 3 months ago
Cracker head stole Turkey, stole African People (enslaved), now steal Petroleum oil.Cracker head has thief, bandit, pirate DNA.
redapple5413 3 months ago
White Guys stole Turkeys from Native America Indian !!!
Native America Indian did not give those Turkeys; instead, Those Turkeys were stolen by White Guys from these Native America Indian............
redapple5413 3 months ago
White Guys stole Turkeys from Native America Indian!
This Land is belonging to the Native America Indian;
Native America Indians were and still are beautiful, clean, civilize people!!!
You go back to your European Rat Holes! You White Rats!
In addition, same for all the Negro, Asian and all other low lives (no name) go back to your origins.
redapple5413 3 months ago
Han Chinese build Tibet better...
but these fucking Nazi US redneck go Tibet to stroll up Trouble!!!!
redapple5413 3 months ago
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fucking US Nazi red neck go Tibet to make trouble !!!!!
redapple5413 3 months ago
fucking red neck go Tibet to make trouble !!!!!
redapple5413 3 months ago
white bandits go to Lhasa make trouble !!!
redapple5413 3 months ago
go and read before do any comment, Tibet was under serfdom before 1950, land and wealth were controlled by governors or Landlords, go to search who abolished serfdom, who assigned land to people,who gave the people real freedom...you dont believe that i will know your country better than you, so you should believe you dont know my country better than me
huadujuan 3 months ago
Tibet submitted to China at least more 800 years ago, how long is the history of US, about 300 years, where US come from?greedy Europeans drove Native American to the poor land and Robbed their rich land. Americans you should criticize your Ancestors first for they occupying Native people's land, and Europeans you should call back you greedy people and return the land to Native American people, 500 years after you return, China will do the same thing..
huadujuan 3 months ago
just can't wait to visit my birth place! lol am crying watching this. thank you for your lovely video. :)
Yiney86 3 months ago 3
4:05 LMAO !
The Chinese soldiers, officials are like Robots who feel nothing towards Tibetans and Tibet the land they forcefully Occupy to this day.
TibetArchive 3 months ago 3
3:18
Exactly how i feel.
TibetArchive 3 months ago
我还是用简体字打个酱油吧，，，估计鬼佬们整上google translator也搞不懂在说啥，，，哥就是感觉最尾一个手势真是霸气侧漏啊。。。哦也！
richardhyx 4 months ago
thats for the tibetan's security
blufflop 4 months ago
I was in Munich, Germany and I also saw soldiers with guns in the platz when there was a demonstration... when some people want to be independent you think the government should do nothing~ Tibet has been a part of China Empire for 400 year ~ Why do not support Brit break into 4 parts...
Do you think it is really easy to build houses and railways there? At least, Lahsa is much better than average Indian cities...Dont tell me Tibetans don't benifit since 90% are Tibetans there...
alfredzlee 4 months ago in playlist SephJoey的其他视频
@tcl83 Over 90% of the people in tibet are tibetan chinese. Lhasa, the city with the highest proportion of han Chinese, has a population where only 17% of the people are han Chinese. Besides, with the arrival of globalization people EVERYWHERE are migrating. It's ridiculous to even severely restrict migration BETWEEN countries, let alone severely restricting migration WITHIN a country.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tcl83 The DL was given 8 years from 1951 to 1959 to make reforms and he did NOTHINH. As soon as the CCP started making reforms in 1956 near tibet he started revolting as he, the landownes and the nobility didn't want to lose his priveleges. The CCP abolished the slave-serf system OVERNIGHT as compared to NOTHING the DL did in 8 years.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tcl83 Regardless of whether tibet was dragged into the revoluion or not, it HAD been part of China for CENTURIES and it is undeniable that the 9th PL strongly supported sun-yat-sen's proposals. China has a MUCH better claim over tibet than the US has over ALL of its lands. The 10th PL was groomed by the 9th PL'S subordinates, which just shows what the 9th PL believed in.
Don't give me rubbish about how good tibet was before 1951. 95% of tibetans were slaves or serfs.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tcl83 btw the 9th and 10th panchen lama also both supported the notion of 'the republic of five nationalities'
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao i dont know much about the 9th PL but I do know that he was exiled from Tibet into China because of some internal issue between him and 13th DL. As for the 10th PL, he was in a way groomed by the Chinese from an early age. Yet, he was put to prison for a number of years after he witnessed the suffering of his own people and wrote a lengthy letter in defense of the Tibetan people's suffering under the CCP. The circumstances of his death are also sketchy and he's said to be poisoned.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83
besides, tibet was only in a state of de-facto independence from 1912-1951. NOT A SINGLE COUNTRY recognized its sovereignty as a nation.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao Mongolia which had declared independence around the same time recognized Tibet's independence. The British would not interfere on grounds that Tibet would remain a neutral buffer zone btn Russian and British empire, they did however stress that Tibetans governed their own affairs after having been refused entry with chinese visa. So you're wrong in both cases. Due to circumstances beyond our control, few countries recognized our independence but we were a totally independent nation!
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83 The fact that time period to justify your separatist ideals just shows how biased you are. At the time China was in a middle of a REVOLUTION having been gang-raped for nearly a century by the western fags. By your logic the confederate states should be independent as well?
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao IDK much about the american revolution but I can tell you with certainty that even though the revolution did affect tibet immensely(as you can see by the current state of affairs) it was not what the Tibetans were interested in or cared about, because it was a revolution in China, NOT Tibet. i think the comparison would be better made if the american revolutionaries dragged along Mexico for the ride, and imposed their revolutionary ideals on them. No nation will tolerate such insolence
tcl83 5 months ago
Ironic that the "reporter" keeps shitting on the goddamned evil barbaric chinks yet they had no problem riding the trains built by the goddamned evil barbaric chinks as well as staying in those modern westernized hotels built by the evil barbaric goddamned chinks.
Of course the "reporter" would be snivelling and whining about how "backward" and "dirty" Lhasa would HAVE been had those CHINESE BUILT hotels not exist.
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb
Exactly. If China hadn't done all this to improve their living standards and modernize tibet, these westerners would complain about how nothing had been done to improve their livelihoods. However, since we have done this, they complain that modernization is destroying tibet culture. Basically, whatever the CCP does is wrong in their eyes. Killing all those native americans is ok but modernizing a place that has been part of china for centuries is wrong.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao not to sound like like a supporter of western imperialism, but i gotta say this. I think more than any ppl on earth, 'westerners' as you might say are the most adventurous and have lived in the most harshest and toughest places, even though their love of adventure is often times marred by their zeal of religion, conquest or greed. so, please stop this weak argument. I'm sure SephJoey is tough enough to survive in Tibet without any modern conveniences. Besides Tibetans are there to help
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83
Would you be willing to give up your own privileges, i.e your tv, your refrigerator, you car, etc, etc. Your assumption is that tibetans don't want any of this and would rather live in a small hut and die at around 35 years of age, which is racist to say the least.
Besides, if China had done nothing to modernize tibet, westerners would constantly be complaining about how nothing had been done to improve the living standards of the tibetans.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao There wouldn't be such accusations if China hadn't invaded and occupied Tibet in the first place. That aside I'm not for a world with no technology. ofcourse we should use it if its beneficial, it'll be stupid not to. But the question is at the cost of what? Thats where I believe if Tibetans had control over their own affairs we would do a better job at pacing the developments in Tibet. Tibetans live in big concrete houses or tents, and my grandparents all lived over 80 yrs.
tcl83 5 months ago
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@tahenhao There wouldn't be such accusations if China hadn't invaded and occupied Tibet in the first place. That aside I'm not for a world with no technology. ofcourse we should use it if its beneficial, it'll be stupid not to. But the question is at the cost of what? Thats where I believe if Tibetans had control over their own affairs we would do a better job at pacing the developments in Tibet. Tibetans live in big concrete houses or tents, and my grandparents all lived over 80 yrs.
tcl83 5 months ago
@lukebccb You talk of China modernising tibet and about the comfortable hotels, high speed trains. You compare that with Tibet 60 years ago....I mean, wtf. China was dirty and uncomfortable and undeveloped 60 yrs ago too. If Tibet had been independent, in 60 yrs who knows what developments might've taken place there. For all I know, tibet right now would've been a real Shangrila, where people have love and respect for each other, their environment and their culture, which is lacking in china.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: you mean that Tibet might look like Nepal or (now OCCUPIED) Bhutan and Sikkim if it had stayed independent??? Of course given that WHITE westerners find it so "cool" and "wonderful" that the Nepalese, et al live such "rustic lives" that the WHITE westerners get to observe when they jump onto modern jets and jet to Nepal and the *imagined* Tibet so that the WHITE westerners can see the "simple lives" of the Nepalese and Tibetans and regale in their simple lives
(cont.)
lukebccb 5 months ago
@tcl83: yes of course, it would be terrible if the Nepalese, Bhutanese, Tibetans, et al.were to adopt western living standards it would terrible as thus the WHITE westerners wouldn't be able to jet into Nepal, Bhutan, etc and glare and look at the "simple", "rustic" lives of the "locals" and how they have to hike 5 miles for water as opposed to piped water or that they're not "simple folks" that will "want to show their simple lives" to the awe-struck WHITE westerners that have jetted in.
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb I've to say u're a very funny guy. But your point is also taken & i did notice a hint of han chauvinism, downgrading neighboring nations using words like 'rustic' wtf? I don't think the backward villages in China where 80% of the population lives is any better than a village in Nepal. So you're in no position to preach my friend. Whatever evil the white man has done according to u, the money they bring in the countries help support families. Gvnts are a diff issue if thats what u mean
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: "downgrading neighbors"?? Are you referring to a political and cultural environment/situation where a *MAOIST* armed insurrection took hold in Nepal?? An insurrection that was *initially* disowned by China..... until China realized the *political advantages* vis-a-vis India??
NO one is discounting "backward villages" in China BUT YOU are SO out of the loop about the *reality* OF China that YOU aren't even aware that China's population is NOW closing in on 55% urban??
(cont.)
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb I'm not talking about the political/cultural/environmental situation. i'm simply pointing out your chauvinistic tendencies. you sound like the 'white orientalist', portraying natives as savages, like you're superior to the Nepalese, Tibetans, Bhutanese. But thats just what i got from what you wrote. u maybe a saint for all i know.
As for the 55%, i accept my error. But, my argument still holds ground. your assumption that Tibet wants to remain backward is baseless. btw I AM TIBETAN!!!
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: YOUR reply on "80% villages" only goes to show that YOU ARE stuck in the PROPAGANDA of bullfuckingshit about the REALITY OF PRESENT CHINA. YOU need to start getting YOUR *FACTS* of PRESENT China otherwise YOUR "arguments" aren't worth shit as NOW I see exactly where YOUR "arguments" are coming from.
Oh all that wonderful tourists monies are transforming Nepal and Bhutan et al eh?? Then refer back to WHY THERE'S A MAOIST GOVERNMENT IN NEPAL? Bet YOU didn't know that eh?
(cont.)
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb easy there tiger. to answer you highly enthusiastic questions. I was born in Nepal. i do know about the Maoists. Half the so called maoists dont even know who Mao is. The political turmoil of Nepal is a diff issue that i'll be glad to expalain. Nepal's chief source of revenue is Tourism which was badly hampered due to the Maoist insurgency. If you're reading the news, you'll learn that the maoist gvnt of nepal doesnt even allow tibetan cultural celebrations due to Chinese pressure.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: WHITE westerners LIKE YOU ARE INCAPABLE of getting past the "oh those quaint simple lives of those (inherently meaning "SUBhuman") 'simple' Nepalese lead....." and ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING that YOU are *jetting* *into* *their* *lives* so that *YOU* can "observe" the "simple" "lives" of these "simple folks" "living a simple life" ONLY THEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE FAR MORE THE INSIDIOUS *CHAUVINIST*.
Oh, I'm not "Han"....... I'm not even American. I'm a human being.
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb Ofcourse we're all human beings, but that said...I'm not WHITE or a westerner! I'm a modern Tibetan refugee. I think that describes me well. you might argue about the modern bit but i dont care about that. I do wonder where you're actually from, because you have strong sentiments against certain groups of ppl and a very unrefined view on Tibet and its history. I'd love to answer any questions u have, as long as they are valid and civil. I'm not saying i know everything but i can help
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: WHITE westerners LIKE YOU ARE INCAPABLE of getting past the "oh those quaint simple lives of those (inherently meaning "SUBhuman") 'simple' Nepalese lead....." and ARE INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING that YOU are *jetting* *into* *their* *lives* so that *YOU* can "observe" the "simple" "lives" of these "simple folks" "living a simple life" ONLY THEN WILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE FAR MORE THE INSIDIOUS *CHAUVINIST*.
Oh, I'm not "Han"....... I'm not even American. I'm a human being.
lukebccb 5 months ago
@tcl83: when YOU go and *REALLY* study - AND KNOW - the tortured history of the Qing dynasty and the expanding british empire and the expanding Russian Empire and european imperialism...... THEN GET BACK TO DEBATING ME...... cause otherwise YOU are nothing more TO ME than an NAIVE "idealist" WHITE westerner that doesn't have the fucking clue of the fucking ugly fucking reality of INTERNATIONAL *POLITICAL* RELATIONSHIPS.
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb Hmm stop hating white people so much. btw I studied international relations, also read about the great game in central asia, so i'd love to have a discussion. i dont wanna debate..its not about winning or losing, its about understanding things better. debating only exacerbates in angry comments, which im trying so hard not to do, specially when we're not face to face. maybe u can start by entertaining a relevant topic that might educate me and maybe i'll tell u something u dont know.
tcl83 5 months ago
If your country is so kind, why don't they return the native Americans their rightful land? Because they're hypocrites.
tahenhao 5 months ago
Rubbish. Those estimates are ridiculous. The tibetan population has more than doubled since 1959.
tahenhao 5 months ago
Hahahaha, no wonder why gorbachev is considered as a traitor by nearly every single russian. I wonder why we never hear of the native indian separatist groups as well as those in California, Alaska, texas, and Hawaii. Consider how your own government treated your own natives before criticizing others. No one can deny that tibet's population has more than doubled under CCP rule and that their living standards have improved infinitely
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao thats every single russian brainwashed by the communist party ofcourse. i dont know about you, but i hear about the natives in all countries all the time. you have to know where to look. Tibet's population was reduced by a sixth, when 1 out of 6 Tibetans died as a direct result of communist invasion and occupation, that still continues to this day.
tcl83 5 months ago
Read up on the great game.
By your logic, the confederate states were INVADED during the American civil war
tahenhao 5 months ago
Comment removed
tahenhao 5 months ago
You have to admire the constant claim of the west being brainwashed by its media and the Chinese desire to fanatically defend their government run media. Damn Google and Youtube trying to destroy Chinese harmony, better block them...wait, on what website are you watching and commenting on a documentary about Tibet?
Dekeness07 5 months ago 4
Good job guys! Thanks for the useful videos!
MsJJWang 5 months ago
A typical westerner's viewpoint about Tibet. So pathetic.
maomao667 6 months ago
@maomao667 a typical Chinese viewpoint about something at odds with what government CCTV told you. Nevermind. You're not pathetic though.
SephJoey 6 months ago
@SephJoey
Hmmm......
I do believe Chinese government and its CCTV is good at lying and telling jokes. But I also believe everything you westerners know about Tibet is propoganda from western medias. I mean, C'mon. Propoganda is everywhere. Dalai Lama was just a religious dictator and slaver owner before he escaped to India. No matter what happens in the future, one thing is certain. Tibet will always be a part of China, even the whole China is not controlled by CCP !!!!!!
=)))))))
maomao667 6 months ago
@maomao667 Chinese media has a MOTIVE for presenting Tibet in a certain way - to convince the Chinese people of something. Why would all 'western media' to do the same? What do they gain? WESTERN MEDIA is not one organisation, as CHINESE MEDIA is. Tibet was claimed by China through force & was not a part of China before then. You say u r aware that CCTV is good at lying & 'telling jokes' but r u aware that those same 'jokes' extend to your films, newspapers, music & school books? Think about it.
SephJoey 6 months ago
@SephJoey
What those western governments want is to split up China and keep it weak. There is no need for me to think about it. You said Tibet was not a part of China. So tell me why tibet was also a part of ROC ( republic of China ) before the communists took over the whole China? Dalai Lama is just a fucking puppet of CIA. That's it. I totally support CCP on Tibet issues. Tibet will always be a part of China, even Taiwan ( ROC ) agrees with that !!!
maomao667 6 months ago
@maomao667 Please explain to me how western governments can 'split up' China using independent media organisations? Your logic seems to forget the fact that in 'western' countries, the government and media are NOT the same thing and certainly do not get along. Yes, the words of Xinhua, CCTV and the Chinese government are all the same. Afterall, they ARE the same. This is not so in other countries. Besides, WHY do you think other countries would even want to 'split' your beloved 'motherland'?
SephJoey 6 months ago
@SephJoey
Freedom of speech is often abused by monetary interests: For any news agency like CNN or ABC news, their main purpose is to make money and not to report the truth or give unbiased reports. The best way to make money is to tell the public what they want to hear, which results in this news broadcasters constantly portraying western civilization as a paragon of virtue while depicting China as a country where the government mistreats its own people and holds on to lands it doesn’t own.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao I would argue that there are news agencies in the west, particularly here in the UK, that would not make any money if they didn't report the truth. But surely the very fact that news agencies such as those you've mentioned are individual organisations that not only critiscise the government but also each other, means that as long as you get your information from a variety of different places, you will not simple be fed one view point, as is usually the case in China.
SephJoey 5 months ago 2
@SephJoey
No wonder every news agency in the west consistently blasts nonsense about China. Truth is, they are too scared to report otherwise, as westerners WANT to hear bad things about China. You did not go to tibet with an open mind, using extremely random individual incidents to say that tibetans are unhappy. Heck, I could go to any black community in the UK or the US and find way worse incidents than those incidents you used as a pitiful attempt to justify that tibetans are unhappy
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao I used the incidents I saw to form an opinion while I was there. That is all any journalist can do. Tell me, what did you see when you were there?
SephJoey 5 months ago
@SephJoey
I saw that the majority of tibetans are relatively happy. Of course, there are a minority that will be unhappy with the situation, but that is the case everywhere.
Many tibetans DO consider themselves Chinese. China does not need to use democracy just because western countries do.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao No, China doesn't need to use democracy 'because western countries do'. It should be democratic because 'it's a fair, mutually agreeable system' people have a voice. Of course it would be nice to have some comments from Tibetans inside Tibet on here.... but for that to happen they would need computers, which most can't afford, and they would need youtube/facebook/twitter to be unblocked. Doesn't that tell you something?
SephJoey 5 months ago 2
@SephJoey
Censorship is for the sake of social stability. Besides, opening up can't be too fast. Doing so would only lead to chaos and anarchy.
Ya, what has freedom of speech done in western countries except give western media a better way of saying that they're unbiased when they spread lies about China? No wonder no major news agency dares to say anything bad even though its obvious that he's a self-serving hypocrite who acts as the wests dog.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@SephJoey
Why does it all have to be about tibet? If native americans can get the American government to agree to let them be independent, then they can have their own nation. Deciding if it's worth the sacrifice to gain that acceptance or for the Americans to stay in the country is the real issue. Or the hawaii natives. Or the alaskan natives. China does NOT exterminate its minority natives like america does.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@SephJoey
Apart from that, you terribly misrepresent history and lead a biased view by saying tibetans AND chinese. Tibetans ARE chinese but most westerners will say anything to say that tibetans aren't because they are fanatics who just want to see China split up. Apart from that, China did not invade tibet in 1951, it REUNIFIED it. Tibet has been part of China for 800 years and there was a revolution there. How do you invade your own country?
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao If what you say about Tibetans being Chinese is true, why not let the Tibetans decide this for themselves? That would end all disagreements wouldn't it.
SephJoey 5 months ago 2
@tahenhao You, my friend, are completely delusional. When and how did Tibet become part of China since 800 yrs ago I can't comprehend? Are you referring to the Mongol domination of China and most other nations of Asia? Did u know Tibet shook off the yoke of mongol (although never direct) rule years before the Ming (Han) dynasty overthrew the Yuan (mongol) dynasty. Didn't the Nationalists prostate before the tombs of Ming (han) dynasty to proclaim that they've overthrown the foreign Manchu rule??
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83
The mongol empire was also a chinese dynasty. Kublai Khan declared himself as the emperor of China and announced the coming of the yuan dynasty. The same goes for the manchu's, who declared the arrival of the qing dynasty. Both of these races integrated with Chinese culture just like william of france integrated with English culture after invading England in 1066.
Nationalists NEVER regarded Manchu rule as foreign. They overthrew them just like EVERY OTHER dynasty in China had been.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao D'u know about the Xinhai revolution? In 1911, the revolution overthrew the Qing Dynasty. Yuan Shikai raised his notion of “Five Nationalities as One Family” and later Sun Yat-sen proposed his notion of the “Republic of Five Nationalities”, meaning that the “unification of lands inhabited by the Han, Manchu, Mongol, Hui and Tibetan people. The saying “Tibet has always been a part of China” was born, completely ignoring the fact that Tibet and Mongolia had already declared independence.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: this is where YOUR NAIVETE of PRESENT Chinese politics is ABSOLUTELY/COMPLETELY lacking. The CCP's basis of "right to govern" is based upon the CCP's claim that "we *reSECURED* - NOTE NOT *reUNFIED* - China's borders".
Here's a political lesson NAIVE WHITE western CHILD: IF China was to become "democratic" OVERNITE and actual parties had to compete for political power....... THE BIG basis of the new "political parties" WILL be "WE WILL ENSURE CHINA's POLITICAL BORDERS".
(cont.)
lukebccb 5 months ago
@tcl83: LITTLE CHILD, what do POLITICAL PARTIES DO TO EXIST??..... yeah *GET VOTES*.... AND HOW DO THEY DO IT????...... BY APPEALING TO *WHATEVER* *COUNTS*.
What do YOU think a *political party* IN CHINA would do *WITH A POPULATION THAT IS 93% HAN* WHEN the question becomes "ON A NATIONAL VOTE will decide if tibet shall be independent"???
WHEN YOU START GETTING OVER *YOUR* NAIVETE...... get back to me.....
lukebccb 5 months ago
@lukebccb I think I'm over my 'naivete'! so getting back to you my chinese friend who doesnt want to proclaim he's chinese. I'm guessing you're chinese by the sheer intensity of your arguments for china. anyways thats beside the point. AND ONCE AGAIN I AM TIBETAN.just making sure! So firstly, I didn't mention the CCP, i was talking about the nationalists under yuan shikai that made claims over Tibet, whch they believed was within the sphere of Chinese rule following claims made by Qing dynasty
tcl83 5 months ago
As for your view on political parties. ofcourse without a doubt, their legitimacy is based on the votes they get from the ppl, and they might go about securing those votes through whatever way there is. So correct me if I'm wrong. You're implying either that whether there is democracy in china or not, Tibet will remain a part of China simply because the majority Han ethnicity deems it so? Is tht the master plan? to bring han settlers into Tibet to offset the demographics in favor of Han interest
tcl83 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@tcl83
The mongol empire was also a chinese dynasty. Kublai Khan declared himself as the emperor of China and announced the coming of the yuan dynasty. The same goes for the manchu's, who declared the arrival of the qing dynasty. Both of these races integrated with Chinese culture just like william of france integrated with English culture after invading England in 1066.
Nationalists NEVER regarded Manchu rule as foreign. They overthrew them just like EVERY OTHER dynasty in China had been.
tahenhao 5 months ago
Truth is, most westerners(especially Americans) loathe the idea of China becoming no.1 in the world and they would much rather hear terrible things about China than hearing the truth. Western countries want to split up China because thats the most efficient way of weakening it, which is what they did to the USSR.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao The USSR broke up not only b/c US scheming but because the occupied nations that were being colonized by the Red Army were aching for freedom, and because thanks to Gorbachev who had heart enough to give some freedom to the territories (which ofcourse seems like a bad idea from the point of view of the regime but from a human perspective, a great move) Thats why China is so tight-fisted about its occupied regions, because it sees its own fate as USSR if it gives its ppl more freedom.
tcl83 5 months ago
Honestly, wtf, the city seems pretty nice. Why does this westerner have to describe it so badly?
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao Because 'this westerner' went there and experienced it. Yes, the city is probably very nice... if you are Chinese. But not if you are Tibetan.
SephJoey 5 months ago
@tahenhao There's a Tibetan story of a guy who has a golden vase with shit inside it. So he's shining up the exterior and its all glittery and pretty but then in the end, the truth is its full of shit!! thats how China has made Tibet.
tcl83 5 months ago
@SephJoey
China has proved repeatedly over in the past three decades that its own governing system has many strengths compared to democracy. For all its faults, none of these faults can compare to the fact that it has raised more people out of poverty than any other government, monarchy, or regime in the history of mankind. Now thats human rights for you.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao Censorship is for the sake of GOVERNMENT stability. Not social stability. Let's not forget that a government and a country are not the same thing. You ask what has freedom of speech done? You're able to have this conversation on youtube for a start. And to be honest, anyone who still uses any variant of the phrase 'western running dog' has clearly been getting their news from a single source for the past 60 years anyway. But still, it's been an interesting discussion, thanks.
SephJoey 5 months ago
@SephJoey
No, it is for the sake of social stability. If people start causing havoc and it spreads, then it will be extremely hard to continue the progress that China has enjoyed for so long.
And no, I read much of my news from western media sources but they just keep on getting more and more biased. No wonder the CIA spent so much time trying to split tibet from China. No wonder the US keeps on selling weapons to taiwan. Of course, they don't want to split up China,
tahenhao 5 months ago
@SephJoey
For all you say, it doesn't change the fact that you deliberately misrepresent history by making it seem that Tibet was never part of China. What an "unbiased" documentary.
tahenhao 5 months ago
@tahenhao You yourself used the word 'REUNIFICATION'. Does that not imply that Tibet and China were NOT unified? How can you REunify two places that are both China?
SephJoey 5 months ago
@maomao667 You asked why Tibet was part of ROC. Firstly, Tibet wasn't a part of ROC. Secondly, the nationalists (sadly) thought that all territories (allegedly) under Manchu rule must now be under their rule as well. Its funny how history repeats itself. Just as in the 14th c. Tibet became independent from Mongol rule, in 1913 Tibet declared independence (after bloody massacres by Manchu general Chao Erfeng, later defeated by Tibetans, thanks 2 chinese overthrow of their foreign lords in china.)
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83
What a typical brainless and ignorant western idiot you are ! If you want to split China up by its races, why don't you go to north east China and ask those manchurians whether they want independence and get their manchu empire back. China consists of 56 different ethnicities. I think you should really go ask every one of them do they want to become independent or not. Stupid white fuck.
maomao667 5 months ago
@maomao667 Thats a good idea. why don't we ask the people themselves whether they want independence or not? I don't really want to speak for other ethnic minorities, but I myself being a Tibetan (don't know how you came to the conclusion that i was white) would love to have the opportunity to vote whether we want independence or remain under PRC. I'm pretty sure the Uighurs would love to be independent too, maybe even the Mongolians in inner Mongolia. Whereas the Manchus have been sinicized.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83: "Inner Mongolia" is now 85% Han. If that "choice" was given that 85% would decide. In Xinjiang the population is almost 50% Han with a sizable Hui population that pushes the "Chinese" population past 50%. If you include the Kazakh and Mongols in Xinjiang, then the Uighurs become a clear minority.
lukebccb 5 months ago
@maomao667 I think it'd be better if the whole of China would be under Tibetans, then we can all live in peace and harmony as Tibetans. don't like the sound of it?? well then shut up with your own blabbering. Tibet will always be Tibet. Don't believe me? Look at a contour map of the world. Its clear for all to see, the natural boundaries of the roof of the world, the pure land and the high peaks of our fatherland will forever bear witness to the courage of Tibetan spirit.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83
You know what I am thinking? I think all you greedy white colonists should get your ass back to England and give the land back to native American - the Indians, or you should be under Indians. Just like what you said history always repeat itself, yea,take a look at Afghan and Iraq. You fucking dumbass. You are doing the same thing like what you did to native Indians !!!
maomao667 5 months ago
@maomao667 as you might've known I'm Tibetan and I'm not arguing about the history of western colonialism, which is itself a whole different matter that has been thoroughly and extensively dealt with by scholars from all over the world.
tcl83 5 months ago
@tcl83
And finally, Tibet will always be a part of China, just like Xinjiang, Manchu, etc. China will never become like the split USSR and Yugoslavia. It can only happen in your dreams.
maomao667 5 months ago
@maomao667 and as you've seen with the advent of flight technology, space travel, and american idol for that matter...DREAMS DO COME TRUE sometimes..! Maybe for ppl like you, crumbling under the system and giving up is an option, but for us Tibetans we have "semshook" (soul strength) and trust me, its gonna take a whole lot more than guns and propaganda to break it.
tcl83 5 months ago
13th Dalai Lama's Home Demolished
2011-06-15
Chinese authorities reject family appeals to protect an historic site.
456inthemix 7 months ago