John Piper says listen to your screaming inner voice

[TheRyan019]

Dude seriously !!! This why as Christians we can't be United in the faith, because of people like you 1 Tim 6:3-5) If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who sup

[timdnoincumbents]

Romans is clear that everyone knows Christ. That He is Lord. They reject His love. Piper is on the mark.

[outofthebox7]

"Piper".... as in.... Mmm...

Please read the two articles on calvinism herewww.ipertisalithias.gr/pag­e5.htmland pass it on. May God keep you in His truth.

[lewecca]

whoever made this video is obviously just nit picking. i wana hear the rest of these sermons...not bits and pieces... even Hitler took out what he wanted to hear from scripture alone.

[evewale]

Why do Calvinist contradict themselves? First they teach total depravity that we can not even attempt to seek God without God first moving in our lives YET John Piper is stating that an unbeliever realizes his need for a Savior from being created in God's image

[ManxMistress]

30 minutes with me and my floggers and this idiot would be screaming with more than his inner voice, how can any sane person believe all this clap trap about a fictional being

[debijo54]

you obviously don't know john piper and what he teaches.

he is all about the truth of the word.

you are really judging with unsound judgement.

[TheTurkey01]

argument fail

[rockstarfury]

Yeah, I think the maker of this video has some issues that go a little deeper than this particular message. He doesn't really seem to get what Piper's saying.

[midweststeph]

while I may have some problems with JP's theology, this video is the nutty!

[damianos1122]

the bible says that God has revealed himself to people and that people ignore that. Also God has given people conscience so people know when they do wrong.

You are taking the words of piper out of context i think

[dewey561]

You clearly have a bone to pick. If you read any of Piper's books you'd know the only source of truth he is ever concerned with is the Bible. I know of no other contemporary preacher with such a passionate allegiance.

[bandcookie88]

piper is saying that you listen to the Holy Spirit (concience) persone posting this video obviousely has no idea what Piper means.

[bandcookie88]

in order to teach limited atonement, you have to say that God does not love all men(mr and mrs man). while it is true that the truth actually does not lie fully in armenian or calvinist views, limited atonement is an indictment against Almighty God and against his Messiah. predestination is known only from the perspective of the Almighty, and so, according to stephen hawking,"man is predestined, but since he has no way of knowing which way, he may as well not be."

[cccathena]

John Piper openly rejects Limited Atonement. He endorses that heretic Mark Driscoll who also rejects Limited Atonement. He also endorses the theology of Millard J. Erickson, who also rejects Limited Atonement. John Piper is not a Calvinist.

[deeakingsdaughter]

you're blinded by the enemy.may God luminate you!

[ShepT513422]

I am having great difficulty understanding why you seem so bound and determined to take Dr. Piper's words out of context. This sort of rhetorical nonsense does nothing for your credibility among the biblically informed. You would do well to think again.

[meltonRp]

Andrew, you are being divisive. I have seen you time and time again attack men who are devoted to teaching the TRUTH of God's word. I don't know why you take pleasure in attacking the ministry of great men of God. I see nothing wrong with what Piper said in this sermon. You say things like, "In other words (this is what Piper is actually saying)" and then you change the quote to something that in fact IS unbiblical and contend Piper said it. No my friend, that is not Biblical. It is a lie.

[Studier101]

Indeed. Bain ignores Romans 1, that God's power and Godhead is understood clearly by the things that are made, leaving them without excuse. But Bain would leave them with excuse. He picks too far just try to find error. As if he has 1. no patience, 2. no discernment, 3. a need to justify himself and condemn others.

[kevinleek2k]

Andrew, tell me some of the preachers you listen to.  I want to know your theology.

[bigphade]

andrewbain we'll pray for you

[jofo817]

John Piper is a phoney

[6qrents]

Andrew you bore us to the dead...

[matt3i6]

Piper has NEVER said forget the Bible - you shouldn't misquote people and take them out of context.

[lozersk8er]

for all of these people who are men of God and you seem to hate. you need to repent because they preach the full council of God. and all you do is spend your time trying to tear them down, and you should fear if you since you are bringing a charge against God's elect, and if you want to know what he is talking about in this video maybe you should read your Bible and turn to Rom 1 and 2 so quit pull stuff out of context

[fight2kill34]

wow andrew your crazy, you hate driscoll and piper and probly every1 who truly love God and thinks the Bible is 100% God breathed. so my question is what are you? what do you believe?

[21jonmark]

I'm absolutely amazed at your lack of understading of Piper's words. I find it extremely disturbing the fact that you have twisted the meanings of his words to suit your one private bitterness towards this man of God. May God give you wisdom and knowledge to understand the scriptures.

[mdkbdshan]

Who do you like Andrew?

[Lions4jesus]

It is sad that there are those who say they love Christ JESUS and attack there fellow brethren because they cannot handle reality of the Scriptures alone. They seek out and attack their own by creating divisions and do acts of wolves using scripture like satan did to Christ JESUS at the temptation. At least Piper keeps things in full Scriptural context and has many years of proof backing his office while others rely on their own personal opinions not based ontheTruthusingscripturefoolis­hly.

[oceanful]

booooo!!!

[Enoch2]

Clearly, this is a man of God. Stop posting videos attacking true servants of God and start looking for Him yourself. God bless you! Praise Jesus!

[manleybeasley]

wow. Romans chapter 1 guys. Thats all he's preaching. No offence, but not every Calvinist is Van Tilian.

[ele12957]

Andrew, I have watched a number of ur videos and one thing I have come away with is people here on YT believe McArthur, Piper and Washer are infallible, you have done a very good job of highlighting areas where these men have gotten away from the truth of God's word. I believe they border on Phariseesism.

[ranger16410]

I have watched piper for years, and i have grown closer to God through his teacheings then anyone elses. as with any teacher there are some driscrepencies, but i do believe you are taking hi words and making them something compltetly different then they really are.

[alschott05]

this is ridiculous, Andrew I hope someday you come to know Piper as a brother in Christ

[funnyman2424]

Yea, you are definitely taking Piper's words and twisting them to say what you want it to say. You are way off base here.

I completely agree with 2 Corinthians710

[2corinthians710]

when he talks about listening to your "inner voice", he's talkin about your god-given conscience, he isnt promoting that godless philosophy of listening to your heart.

[jclark2008521]

I believe that if you truly think that these videos aid your cause you are irrational, how can you possibly justify the claim that Piper says regard your heart over scripture its something that you claim, you twist his words in a way that benefit your argument, it would be interesting to see Piper and you in a debate, you should try and arrange it, once again i pray for you daily

[nandobond]

hey andrewcbain you don't have anything better to misunderstand the new believer and sttoping doing this kind of thing posting what do you think is against to the biblie,look at you and look to this servants of god and try to find the difference why do you hide in the internet and don't stand in front to many people and tell the truth like they are doing.See what do you have in you heart? i not trying to be rude Rom. 2:1-3

[damildlyshreddah]

AndrewcBain these videos are so unfair and I must ask why you are doing these? Really makes me sad in my heart to see someone attack members in the body of Christ like this.

[jaydeejee1]

This is ridiculous. Obviously posted by a typical doctrinaire with too much time on his hands. There is no way, in context, that John Piper is saying what is being subtitled over him, Andrew McBain, I suggest you stop wasting your time and try posting something more edifying.

[carmichaelat]

Clearly you are putting words in John Piper's mouth. This is completely ridiculous.

[proview2321]

AndrewcBain, your comments clearly are telling me that you don't know Piper, you don't know his ministry, you have not read his books. Ignorance is the source of your comments.

[SELVAJANE]

what kind of an idiot made those comments between the sermon?

[ilikacoffee]

What's so hard to understand? Piper is simply explaining what the Bible already speaks of. We fall short of the glory of God, we're all sinners, we're still sinners apart from ignorance. And though "there is none righteous, no, not one" we unknowingly prove our need for him in all the pleasures we seek in life. The Bible puts a face on our depravity, and gives a name to the forgiveness one might long to find.

[BlessedVessel]

ATTENTION: Believers use discernment when listening to videos by AndrewcBain. Similar to Satan, he mixes truth with lies to deceive and manipulate. He intentionally paraphrases, misquotes, and summarizes quotes of various christians, with a different meaning. If you are not ALERT and vigilant, you will be misled, because the deception is not overt. I sense a spirit of mockery. Satan you are a LIAR and so are your followers. God Bless

[Newtonstewart]

Ignore the last point please!!!! what i meant to say was he believes saving knowledge comes from the Bible alone not the heart!!!! only natural knowledge from the heart not saving knowledge.

Please forgive

[Newtonstewart]

Go see Piper's books or other sermons and you will see this man loves the Bible and believes only saving knowledge comes from the heart and the world which sinners supress as Pauls claims in ROMANS 1. It is not enough to save you see. You might just have missed those bits of his work, go check them please and if you still find your postion to be true so be it, but if not just accept we can all be wrong sometimes. Peace in Jesus.

[kythome]

He's completely and deliberately taking Piper out of context.

This Andrew guy's theology is on the same level as Benny Hinn.

[kythome]

AndrewcBain is the false teacher here, not Piper.

[vesselofmercy84]

dude stop being a butt hole for Jesus.

[martdinsmore]

Andrewcbain doesn't get it. And he is taking lying liberties to suggest what Piper is not suggesting by his message. Shame on you. You're to be pitied. To suggest that truth is lost on Piper, this anointed man of God is beyond the pale.

[bufantas]

This "anointed man of God" is propogating ideas which should be challenged , such as the belief in an afterlife , which has no evidence to support it. This is child abuse , and grown ups should reject it too.

[bufantas]

If you have a screaming inner voice , go see the doctor.

[Piliper]

You're ignorance is unbelievable. John Piper will do more this week for the cause of Christ than you will do in a lifetime.

[thepunnonly]

The bible does not speak to non-believers, except for purposes of salvation.

[joshjames76]

This is why I don't get this guy. And I have never seen him respond to any of his comments. Does he do it just for the sake of argument? I also noticed that all of his favorites are his own stuff. You are way into yourself. And your videos are useless

[club157]

Why would anyone spend their time attacking one of the most theologically sound preachers going around today.

Why would he cut pieces from sermons and then add stupid comments like, "The Bible is not important." I have never heard Dr. Piper hint at such nonsense.

Put your time to better use, sir.

[chandin3]

Are you serious? Are you trying to set John Piper up to look un-biblical and "catch" him teaching unsound doctrine? John Piper is the best Bible teacher of this generation. Jesus Christ is glorified through his humble service and preaching.

[sayhey666]

YOU TALK SHIT lol

he's not saying forget the bible at all all he is saying there is more then the bible and wtf your saying he is saying the truth is not real it does not matter and most of us are going to hell where in god's name did you get that line from you idiot god

all you done was talked shit after shit did you smoke a bag of crack befor you put this crap on here?

P.S get a life

LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FishStudios]

Andrew, the things you say are just not true. Piper never said "forget the Bible". All he said was there's more than the Bible that bears wittness to our need for God.

[AFXH]

as far as scripture goes your method is just proof texting, it's cheap 1 verse manipulating of the text to work with your system of 'logic'

[AFXH]

andrew this is eisegesis of both scripture and them men you ridiculing. Its clear you listen to the sermons of these men and look as hard as you can till you find 'a heresy' -

[dadgramps]

John Piper is one of the greats of our day God has truly gifted him lisen to all do not "wrest the scripture"2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

[onethingsailing]

You are misinterpreting what he is saying. My heart yelled at me before I was saved. It yelled, "You are a sinner and you need help!" It's called conscience.

[acedrinker]

Why you are misrepresenting what he is saying?

[sarahmmlewis]

Study and figure out the Word and your own Theology first before you take down someone who is sound and who is saying something clearly Biblical. Regardless if he's a hyper Calvinist, all believers SHOULD agree that everyone knows deep down that there is a God but it is their sin that causes them to suppress it...

[sarahmmlewis]

also, i find it VERY INTERESTING that you are taking tidbits of his sermons out of context and summarizing what YOU THINK HE MEANS in YOUR OWN WORDS instead of just playing the whole clip. When Piper says that "Everyone knows God" he is referring to the SCRIPTURE in Romans Chapter 1:18 where it clearly states, "... men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them."

[sarahmmlewis]

john piper is the most solid and Biblical preacher around

the WORD says in Romans 1 that the knowledge of God is written on EVERYONE'S heart... john piper didn't make that up, GOD SAYS SO. additionally, there is no place in this clip where he blatantly says not to read the Bible or to use the Word to convict sinners of their sin

[doolos]

This Guy just misquotes and distorts what people say. He is the master of hearing what he wants. He is a deceiver and a liar. I tried to talk to him and he cannot even follow an argument. He twists and contorts the Word of God. Through eisegesis he shows his points. Hes a 1 verse cherry picker...

[Aragond68]

Are you referring to AndrewCBain or John Piper? Sorry, it's just not clear.

Cuz I've gotta say, I'm thinking the former, cuz I do not like what I read between the Piper quotes; they're not even close to Piper's message.

[Higotsu]

Get your facts straight before trying to smear the image of godly man who is faithful to the truth. He is speaking of human conscience. His point is that everyone has a conscience and "knows" God in that way. The problem is that in our sinful nature, we rebel against God so that we do not want to submit to God and indeed cannot. But, that does not change the fact that our conscience condemns us and screams to know the creator in whose image we are made.

[AndrewcBain]

The idea that unbelievers have a "truth in them" leads them AWAY from the Bible and leads them to listen to the VAIN REASONINGS of their own hearts. A lot of preachers just say that unbelievers have "truth in them" and leave it at that. These preachers are inconsistent - they SHOULD direct unbelievers to LISTEN to the "truth in them".

[mrob4031]

Interesting how you're using your fallible human logic to try and disprove biblical truth (which Romans 1 clearly states). Then, you use logic trying to disprove something the Bible says to say people should turn to the Bible. Wow...dizziness from the circularity...

[Rexxfalcon2]

@AndrewcBain your twisting was hes trying to get across....hes briefly stating how our inner conscience makes us feel guilty. NOT that we should listen to our heart in do what we think is right. Do you have some kind of grudge against this man or something. Its evident that hes a man of God.

[Danny2Lisa]

@AndrewcBain Maybe you should read Romans 2 and stop worshiping the Bible and start worshiping the God of the Bible. It says that our consciences are that inner voice which bear witness to the law being written on our hearts.

[AndrewcBain]

On the other hand, Piper IS consistent. He recognises that if unbelievers have truth in them, then we SHOULD tell them to listen to the "truth in them" - even if this involves leading them away from the Scripture. Piper shows just were the "inner truth" doctrine leads - it leads men away from the Bible.

[beefamato]

James White, a Calvinist, has great blurbs responding to hyper-Calvinism at

aomin . org / index . php ? itemid = 242 &catid = 4

and also at

aomin . org / HyperCalv . html

and

monergism . com / directory / link_category / HyperCalvinism (delete spaces in urls)

I hope all who visit Andrew's site will peruse aomin . org for solid theology even if they don't watch watch Andrew's contextless exposés.

[beefamato]

Hey all.

If you will check out his Xanga you'll see that this guy's simply a hyper-Calvinist. Hyper-Calvinists believe that true faith is necessarily manifested in perfect theology; specifically about the extent of the atonement. In other words, a person cannot be saved who believes in anything other than 5 point Calvinism. Even further, Calvinists who believe that a non-5 pointer can be saved are damned. Very sad and interesting.

[Higotsu]

Uh, 5 point Calvinism is not hyper calvinism. There is hyper calvinism, make no mistake about it. But being a five pointer does not make you a hyper calvinist. You are misinformed.

[beefamato]

Hey higotsu. If you would have read my post carefully before replying you would've realize that I am not calling 5 point Calvinism hyper-Calvinism. I am a 5 pointer. Andrew is a hyperist, Piper and White are solid 5 pointers. Hyperism needs to be demolished. You would do well to visit the links I provided.

[calitatum]

I have been following John Piper for 20+ years. He believes that when you believe that Jesus is the Savior and Lord of your life, you are saved. Bad theology or not. He is rock solid.

[beefamato]

Right on. I wasn't calling Piper a hyperist. I'm sorry that I didn't specify my referents. Andrew is the hyper-Calvinist. Piper is as opposed to hyperism as he is to any other unbelieving heresy.

[jrformoe]

The Bible tells us that our conscience will either excuse or accuse us -- the screaming voice Piper refers to is your conscience, not your "inner voice" or heart.

[calitatum]

BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA

[Aragond68]

Yeah, I'm with you, dude. I do not hear anything this guy says that denounces use of the Bible. I hear him talking about how every man has the hunger for God written on their hearts. And this is sooooo heretical why?

All the other quotes - presumably just mocking his statements - aren't even close to what he says. Please, get better video footage of him being a heretic or leave it be!

[calitatum]

I know RC and he is NOT an agnostic. Far from it. How can you be so wrong about so much????

[calitatum]

You NEED a new hermeneutic. You have no idea what John Piper believes. You are totally off base here. John Piper is the modern day David, after the very heart of GOD. Piper is my living hero. He is amazing and wonderful. You have him all wrong.

[apraymondmoky]

What's with the clip of Piper about to give out the Lord's Supper. His very surroundings place a context to who he is speaking. I've said it before, you need a new hermeneutic.

[mrob4031]

If you want to challenge people on doctrine, there are plenty out there. Don't take on Piper. He is entirely out of your league.

[mrob4031]

Romans 1: 20-21

For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For ALTHOUGH THEY KNEW GOD, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

[AFXH]

One minute you assert RC is agnostic - next you say Piper is wrong to assert people have a natural knowledge of God - Stop using circular reasoning to boast you stupid attacks

[decay1861]

Context is everything - not just in the Bible but when people speak. I could cut and splice anyone's hour long speech and make it appear to be something completely different than it is. I've been blessed by being able to listen to many hours of Piper's sermons and read several of his books. I'd encourage people to hear his comments in CONTEXT. This video gives a false representation of what Piper teaches and I really question why someone would do this.

[pastormike7]

Why argue with Andrew, brothers? Take better care of your pearls.

[coconut888]

andrew. as someone you've personally chatted with, i hope you take this in good measure. rom.1 does tell about a knowledge of God in all peoples as they are without excuse. the distinction between general and special revelation must be made. you can read bavink on this stuff. i would be careful with what you say as it seems you would lean towards a hyper-calvinism with your responses to piper. spec. rev. is in the word and even it tells us the law is written in man's heart.

[SilentProximus]

This is clearly not what Dr. Piper means. Might I say that John Piper is a genius and all this video is doing is creating false alarm.

[washedbytheword777]

I agree with you SilentProximus.

I don't understand why people insist on bringing other brothers and sisters down. We're supposed to be all in this together.

John Piper speaks the truth...and does not compromize. He is in love with God, and it shows. He is full of the Holy Spirit. Why would any Christian be against him? I don't understand it.

[washedbytheword777]

How do we know when we have passed from death to life? We love the brethren. Whoever doesn't love his brother still abides in death. { 1Jn 3:14}.

AndrewcBain, isn't there a more gentle way you could voice your concerns while still encouraging your brother in Christ?

I will pray for you that this issue might be resolved for you. This world is in such need of the light it just seems like a waste to me.

Take care my friend. May God's grace cover you.

[BiblicalAnswers]

The Bible isn't the only revelation. God has revealed himself in several different ways, the Bible itself says this. I see in your video description that you're already aware of these verses, yet the video makes it seem as if the Bible isn't the only revelation then it's not a revelation but a "reminder". That's simply not Biblical.

[prucniewicz]

Andrew...you are a douche bag.

[missromeo623]

John Piper has a heart of gold...my recommendation is...listen to his other videos, read his books...before passing judgement. It's not fair for him that you to take what he is saying out of their original context. As a person who has actually read his books and heard his sermons...this is totally unfair to him. Check out what he DOES believe (in context) at desiringgod :)

[mstephenson97]

Bain, you have a huge pride problem. It seems that all you want to do is point out how brilliant theologians are wrong by pulling all of their statements out of context.

[FlameOfFire]

You may prefer the KJV: "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse"

Man has -no excuse-, particularly ignorance, when they are faced with holy God. Dr. Piper's point is that men know God -but reject him-.

[FlameOfFire]

Andrew: Romans 1 says "For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made."

[more]

[crimthann86]

Wow Andrew, I just went back and read your description of this video and your like the first one on youtube to get it right. Grace is such a difficult thing for people to understand, most inevitably seek to be justified by the law. That Paul guy knew what he was talking about, these works preachers are the Pharisees. You would make a good Lutheran. :).

[crimthann86]

Who is this Piper guy? He's a smuck. Man doesn't know God in his heart only the law. Grace is completely alien to men and does not make sense in the natural world. Grace is gift that comes from outside to man, not from his heart.

[ReformedLou]

Andrew, I would comment here, but my Reformed/Textual Critic inner voice is screaming at me to ask you: "from what sermon(s) was this culled?" I'd like to hear the words in context. Thank you.

[CalebMWhite]

...

Why must you continue to brutally attack this man of God with your lies? Do you know God better than John Piper? Have you sat at the Master's feet longer? Have you studied the Word more thoroughly? Have you witnessed God's power and glory more fully? I think not.

[CalebMWhite]

Andrew, you seriously ought to stop your anti-Piper propoganda. You're free to disagree with him, but you're relentlessly tearing this man down, misrepresenting him, and stirring up dissention against him (though you've been more successful in stirring people up against yourself, it seems).

...

[club157]

The person who posted this is misrepresenting one of the most godly and sound men of God going around today.

He does not understand the difference between general revelation (everyone KNOWS God exists and that they have sinned against Him) and special revelation (the Bible reveals the way of salvation).

[longnailsareok]

Andrew, I'm afraid you're drastically missing the point of Romans 1. The point is that God has showed his existence and nature to man THROUGH what has been made (v. 20). You can't put v. 19 in a vacuum. All creation SCREAMS God's existence; there is nothing plainer in the universe. But unbelievers suppress this truth (can't suppress the truth without knowing it) in their unrighteousness. And that's what Piper is saying.

[stauron]

Before you deflect, do you agree with Van Til's epistemology? Is our common ground for knowledge with unbelievers based in our common creation?

[GingerFromTheBlock]

John Piper isn't saying anything wrong, he's following Romans 1.

Whoever made this video has some serious bitterness in their heart and show examine themselves.

[AndrewcBain]

[Section 1]

Just a quick question.

I'm curious.

You guys agree with Piper that unbelievers deep down have truth implanted in them.

[AndrewcBain]

[Section 2] But will you go as far as Piper? For example, will you tell unbelievers to listen to and follow their hearts?

How far will you go? Will you be consistent?

If unbeliever have truth deep down in their hearts...

... Shouldn't you tell them TO LISTEN TO THEIR OWN HEARTS? (because if unbelievers have truth in their hearts they SHOULD listen to their hearts, right? a heart with truth in it is a voice of truth worth listening to, isn't it?).

[AndrewcBain]

[Section 3] ... Shouldn't you tell them to "listen to the voice screaming inside them saying "I need a Savior" (as Piper says) ?

Admit it guys. If unbelievers have truth imbedded in their hearts LOGICALLY YOU SHOULD TELL UNBELIEVERS TO LISTEN TO AND FOLLOW THEIR HEARTS. This is what Piper tells them to do!!

Is it just a coincidence he says 1) unbelievers have truth deep down in their hearts and therefore 2) unbelievers should listen and follow the inner voice of their hearts?

[stauron]

I haven't read and digested everything by Piper, but from comments here and what I do know, this sounds very similar to the epistemology of Van Til.

Every created thing, including man, has a "made be God" stamp on it. Sin garbles, but cannot remove or destroy the "made by God" tag.

[stauron]

Could it be any other way? How can the things created not reveal their nature and the nature of the One that created them? The most fundamental bit of knowledge that we can have about anything is that it came from God's hand.

If it were not true, then on a metaphysical playing field, we would have not basis for communication with fallen man. Fallen and sinful doesn't break the metaphysical dependence that all things have to God. (Breaking that tie in effect = non-existence)

[AndrewcBain]

[Part 1] Let's talk about Romans 1.

Verse 19 says "Because that which is known of God is manifest among them, for God did manifest it to them," (Young's Literal Translation). And the KJV says, "God has SHOWED it to them."

Now, why did God have to MANIFEST/SHOW the unbeliever he exists? Piper says that deep down the unbeliever already knows that God exists. But Mr Piper! Why would God bother manifesting his existence again? It would be unnecessary to do so if the unbeliever already knows.

[AndrewcBain]

[Part 2] In summary..

1)Piper says that unbelievers "know in the bottom of their hearts that God exists".

2)He's basically saying that God is stupid.

3)Because why would God bother showing/manifesting his existence if unbelievers already know he exists "deep down" in their hearts?

OK. Let's move on. Next issue. Think about Adam. Perfect, upright Adam. God had to reveal Himself to Adam over and over again in Genesis 1. In fact, God had to VERBALLY tell Adam the MOST BASIC THINGS about life like

[AndrewcBain]

[Part 3] "till the ground", "multiply", etc. God also had to reveal the Law to Adam. So Adam did NOT know about God, the Law or agriculture "deep down in his heart". Indeed, man cannot live by bread alone. He needs God to FEED HIM THE WORD. Even Adam simply could not find out about God or the Law except God revealed it to him. And remember. Adam was innocent. Yet God had to TELL HIM about Himself and His Law (and even tell him about tilling the ground). Adam therefore did NOT know God naturally

[AndrewcBain]

[Part 4] but God had to REVEAL Himself to Adam. Now, fast forward to today. Man's mind today is not exactly like Adam's was. Did I say "not exactly"? Today, natural man (man without the Holy Spirit) is totally under the power of the devil. Man is now blinded, deluded & confused. So HOW MUCH MORE does man today NEED REVEALTION from God to know God exists. If innocent Adam needed it because he did not know God by nature, then there is NO WAY corrupt man today can know God without VERBAL REVELATION

[pstrdixon]

Brothers and Sisters, the issuse is not that you dont understand Brother Piper, or even Brother Calvin, these comments show a lack of understanding concerning the very heart of God. This is the reason we have so much trouble with evangelism. Pershaps we should all stop trying to bring people to our denominational persuasion (AOG, COGIC, Calvinism, Epics, Pente, bapt, etc) and start leading them to Jesus Christ.

[isaacsumner]

Bain, you should be ashamed. I am not sure why you want to misrepresent Piper, perhaps you do not like Calvinists, but understand that there is no place for such trash in the church. Repent.

[HazelWars]

You are seriously misrepresenting Piper, friend. To say that he doesn't care about Scripture betrays that you have not interacted with much of this man's work. I second timmcneely's comments about the difference between general revelation and special revelation. Dig into Piper's stuff and I think you'll find he's not what you think. BTW, thanks for the subscription, friend!

[tarheeljoemaui]

I think the point has already been made that Piper was referring to General, not Special Revelation. Until you can distinguish the two, you don't understand Calvinism as you claim.

Aside from scripture taken out of context, not to mention twisting Piper's words, you are trying to force us onto a false dilemma.

If you are correct in your thinking, prove it from undistorted scripture.

My great desire is to learn more and more about God.

But all I see here is misquoting and logical fallacies.

[ruscopcoltrain]

By the way, if you think that Piper doesn't believe in absolute truth, you either have not everlistened to anything else he's said or basically, you're just a moron. He had a whole conference dedicated to battling the post-modern idea that truth is relative and that Scripture is the supreme, timeless authority. So before you post anymore videos, either get a better grasp of what the bible teaches about man, and/or actually listen to more than 4 combined minutes of what this man has said.

[ruscopcoltrain]

The fact that people on some level know God is why they are held accountable for their sin. It doesn't mean they are partial believers. And that is what Piper is teaching.

[ruscopcoltrain]

If you ever listened to more than 20 seconds of any of his sermons you would (probably) be able to discern this.

What he teaching in these sessions is the innate understanding of eternity, as is said in Ecclesiates, and the knowledge of a Creator, as is taught in Romans. In fact, Romans says that, "although they KNEW God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him..." Sounds a lot like something I just heard.

[ruscopcoltrain]

I'm sorry, but if you think that all of those things post are what John Piper is actually saying, you have no clue in the world what you're talking about. Piper has preached on how the heart is deceitful. Piper has preached that no one desires or seeks God and that you can only come to salvation through the call of God through the blood of Christ by the proclamation of the holy, God-inspired Scripture.

[seitler]

Wow, taking some references to Romans 1:18-23 out of context is the best Piper criticism you can muster up? You must be desperate for attention...

[timmcneely]

It's really sad that you take Piper out context. Anyone who has ever read or sat under Pipers teaching knows that he holds scripture in the highest regard. Spend some time studying the difference between general revelation and special revelation and you will understand that Piper here is speaking about general revelation.

Cheers

[timmcneely]

Romans seems to teach that all people know God. The problem is that do not honor him.

Romans 18:18-22

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.

[AndrewcBain]

Hi Tim -- I posted a response to your comment in the video description. If you click "more" just above the word "Category: People & Blogs" (top right) you should be able to read it. Thanks again!

[timmcneely]

Do not give to the foolish man a foolish answer, or you will be like him.

Proverbs 26:4

Cheers...