Harp Scoring Part 1: Phoenix Concerto

[OrchestrationOnline]

@digitalicus It's as beautiful as I could make it - sorry it's not up to your standards!

[CloverMouse081227]

Mysterious and beautiful, like phoenix... I like it very much!

[ezev8logos]

beautifull work

[tribegoddess]

Outstanding, Thomas. I enjoyed reading the score as the concerto was played. One thing, you forgot to score the coughs. Ha ha. Does Xiou feng know about this?

[OrchestrationOnline]

@tribegoddess Yes, I always ask permission. Thanks for the ups, Dorothy!

[steeeeevve]

Do you have any views on the orchestration of Delius?

I would love to know them.

[thomasbryla]

As others are saying, this is a great piece, and a truly enjoy listening to it. Since you posted this as a segment of harp scoring, I have to ask you why you choose that pedal notation?

[OrchestrationOnline]

Thomas - thanks for your comment and excellent question. These pedal marks are standard and the simplest for harpists to read. I have found that while harpists don't mind other methods, this is the one they prefer. So a pro orchestrator who wants the best results at rehearsal, that's what I use.

(...although I usually indicate DCB at the top instead of BCD at the bottom of the pedal diagram - another small point most harpists don't have a strong opinion about...)

More soon - stay tuned!

[thomasbryla]

Thanks for the response. I have a harp-book by a conservatory teacher from 1960 that only uses the diagrams with lines. I have forced myself to learn it in order to understand the harp better (and read the John Williams scores).

Doesn't Sam Adler say BCD at the bottom as you do it here?

I have never dealt with a harpist myself, so it's great to get all these pointers now! - I'm still a student :)

[OrchestrationOnline]

You, as a score-reader and orchestrator, should of course learn all the miscellania of notation. This is one of them, the harp pedal diagram. However, I often hear harpists wistfully wishing just for a simple D# written a bar before the change instead of a twisty diagram. Proof of this is the harp part that the librarian will collect after the concert, wherein the printed diagrams have been supplemented by many little additions in pencil according to the other way.

[thomasbryla]

Thanks for these words of experience :) All these bits of knowledge really makes me understand the craft much more. If I look at Daphnis, there's not even a scale. Wouldn't the harpist tune the harp according to the key of the music, and then pedal change a bar before, when the composer marks a D#?

[OrchestrationOnline]

That's just a lame-brained publishing error on the first page of the full score of Daphnis et Chloë. The individual harp part will have a logically worked-out pedal mark at the top of the piece letting the harpist know what's ahead - as will every frequently-used harp part of every piece of core orchestral repertoire - even if the poor harpist has to write it in themselves.

Every definitive full score should show the conductor exactly what is in each part - including all harp pedal marks.

[thomasbryla]

So a full pedal diagram up-front and then only note changes written in letters when they occur?

[OrchestrationOnline]

Read your orchestration manual, it should have this written out in detail. Full pedal marks at the beginnings of individual sections, key changes, or if there is a major change of tuning for the harpist. Otherwise, indicate specific changes as they occur.

[adrianallan]

I watched this when I subscribed. It is very evocative and captures an exotic mood perfectly. Great mastery of unusual instruments too.

[kentokhromatic]

Dear Mr. Goss,

I have fallen in love with the subtleties of this orchestral piece as well as how much it's able to say with such simple and easy-to-read (but intricate) parts. Are there any more movements to this piece, and may I do a score study of it? I enjoy looking at the parst displayed here but I would like to take the next step and study the entire piece.

[OrchestrationOnline]

Thanks, Ken - I'm glad you like it. I've sent you a personal message regarding your request.

As to other movements of Phoenix Concerto, please see my latest upload, "Announcements for 2010 & YouTube Composer of the Month." I use the concerto extensively as background music.

[SharpWMusic]

I Really like it, i love the sound of the erhu.

[kentokhromatic]

Question: I saw around measure 67 and later you grouped together the stems by the rhythmic emphasis. Is this a reasonable practice with faster tempos? My teacher teaches that by principle note groupings where the upbeat is emphasized (for example, quarters on updates) should generally be divided into tied 8ths, particularly in the middle of the measure.

[kentokhromatic]

That isn't the case here, but I was wondering for the same reason whether it causes any problems to write in notation uneven note groupings. Also, if uneven note groupings is hard to read, what's the best alternative methods for showing rhythmic groupings in an easily readable manner? I've been using >'s, but it seems this would risk being overemphasized in music like this piece.

[OrchestrationOnline]

Ken - please direct more complex questions to me in a message, as a detailed explanation would take over this whole comments page.

But briefly:

A. This score is written for an amateur ensemble. I could have made regular subdivisions of 5 and beamed and tied notes accordingly, but that would have led to very difficult reading for non-professional players. Therefore, the measures were notated for the least amount of ties and extra notes possible.

[OrchestrationOnline]

B. 5/4 does not have the same mid-measure subdivision as 4/4. It is commonly subdivided as 3+2 or 2+3. However, the true meter of most of this piece is a bar of 3/4 with a bar of 2/4 inserted between the 2nd and 3rd beats. Thus: 2+\2/+1. If I were to revisit the score to bring the notation up to a common standard, I might end up beaming and tying notes according to that subdivision pattern. But I probably will leave it be, because the original worked fine.

[OrchestrationOnline]

C. Lastly, uneven groupings are used all the time, in every type of meter - just look at 20th-century scores, especially Stravinsky. The trick is to find the appropriate level of use with respect to musical meaning and readability.

[emwashere714]

wow. that piece was amazing! very beautiful!

[mooreentstudios]

Absolutely gorgeous, I loved it!

[HarpQwest]

I really Enjoyed This Opus & your Presentation of such. As a Harpist I have, & can & will gain from this video presentation.

Zeno Alma Harpist Composer

[michaelkennedy100]

I rather like the scoring and dynamics of percussion parts, in particular the timpani. Beautiful and moving.

[Composer1992]

This is quite an effective piece. Would you have any suggestions as to where I should look for more information on writing for harp?

[OrchestrationOnline]

I will be adding at least two more segments soon. One will be about the harp's role in the orchestra, the other will hopefully be a master class with a harpist friend of mine on do's and dont's. Also, read your Sam Adler Orchestration manual - his chapter is the best of any texts I've seen.

[Composer1992]

Next year I will be attending the local conservatorium studying composition so I guess I might be getting that particular orchestration manual.

[OrchestrationOnline]

Check and see if it's in your public library - that way it's free. Or a used bookstore if you want to save a little money (new it's US$70+).

I might also add a fourth segment about harp notation...hmm. It looks like some of my viewers could use the info.

[nickmaestro]

Thanks for the post. This has proved extremely helpful when writing for harp. In one of my recent compositions, I have some pretty radical key changes with a harp and flute duet. The harmony is wonderful, but it is very difficult considering the pedaling for the harp. I also enjoyed how you embellish some harmonies and double some melodies.

[Lot2learn]

Magnificently beautiful.

[matepate123]

I think that this piece is something special... :) Beautiful music!!!!!!! How somebody can write .... music for many instruments?!And it sounds gorgeous!! :)

I feel East in it , and the soul of wind play beautiful dance throught Orchestra...

All compliments ;) :) ;)

[remedyz0802]

Thank you for sharing this. This piece is very beautiful, a great listen. Its great to have the score displayed like that as well.

[tommyk77]

I liked how you made the parts flow, but keeping them simple for each player. Definitely useful for someone like me, who only has students who can play his pieces.

God job. I play the erhu (well, learning) so I might try and learn this, if you don't mind.

[OrchestrationOnline]

Thanks. This was commissioned and performed by a community orchestra, so I tried to maximize the effectiveness of the players. And it was also a slower middle movement. But they did a pretty good job of counting 5/4 time.

It's fine if you want to learn the erhu part, thanks for asking. Keep in mind that Xiaofeng brought the part down an octave here and there to make the sound stronger.

[doelman]

Awesome, really great!

[LONGWINDING]

Fantastic music, and it´s a very nice video. I´m very impressed by this! Thanx for uploading something so good!

Best wishes, Frank

[DanielCiurlizza]

I really wish I knew how to write sheet music better. I don't know where to start! I only know how to write for piano. But even then it's not the best.

This piece is great. I especially loved the Erhu.