the first documented abortion was done in ancient Egypt, so it should be fucking obvious that abortion will never go away, even that bible supports abortion.
First off the numbers were less before it was legal. And you're using a falacious approach. Well people are going to have abortions anyway we might as well allow it. What one generation allowed the next embraces. This includes intrisic evils.
i'm pro life but i also believe in choice because thats everybodys GOD given right. its the consequences of your choice that you deal with between you an GOD.
The ironic part is that all of those abortions aren't simply given to liberal women. It's in conservative schools that don't teach sex education that pregnancies are the highest. Are all those pregnant conservative teens giving birth to their babies? I'd love to see the statistics on that.
Margaret Sanger she put the HOOD in planned parentHOOD, in her speech she give to KU KLUX KLAN, and said the Klan is a Good Group, sound like she doing the work of SATAN who love Killing Babies just like all ABORTIONEST Doc's that KILL for the love of evil MONEY, RU846 so was Hetler at his Death Camps the HELLOCAUST, only in America can a Mother Kill her unborn baby and the go home free, God will Laugh at your calamity Prov 1:26 even SATAN believe in HELL, REPENT SINNERS OF YOUR SIN,
From outside America this entire debate seem pointless. To take away womens own choice over their own body. The Feminist movment was not strong enough in the US.
"The Feminist movment was not strong enough in the US. "
I think it's that the catholic church was too strong. I've never heard of anyone saying all abortions should be banned UNLESS they are a religious fundamentalist.
I know this might get some ppl mad but I believe that the PARENTS however young or old has the right over that child. Not the state and not the guy across the street. If the PARENTS beleive (And notice I said PARENTS) they should abort then all to them. The child is not old enough to make it own desicions. I know alot of ppl are like well if it could talk it would say no blah blah blah but still its the parents choice. I ofcourse would never let my loved one get one but thats a PARENTS choice.
I'm thinking that they should've thought of that BEFORE the pregnancy. You know what noone seems to talk about is how many of these are "repeat customers"?
Sex=pregnancy, Sex+some barrier method=1% chance of pregnancy.
I know America is falling behind in math, but this is ridiculous!
A holocaust of people who may as well have never existed. I have committed numerous holocausts this week, but no one is getting on my case about my genocides. Get over it. An unborn person has as much value in their life as a sperm or an egg. They are all potential individuals, but because they are not yet individuals, and therefore have no value.
You stating that as if it were a supported opinion doesn't make it a supported opinion, much less fact. Why is it the "worst argument of the century"?
No, it's not a strawman. It's my argument for why the unborn have no value. They have the value of sperm and eggs, which are all potential people. However, until they are born, it doesn't matter, because there is nothing that makes them individuals.
Laws are written by men. I am in favor of abortion up to an including partial-birth. After that, the child is in the real world, and develops its own individualism, and its life has value.
I am I. I am giving my subjective viewpoint. I am not saying it is unequivocal fact.
And you know what's really interesting? I mean amazingly fascinating? Prokaryotic bacteria. That doesn't mean it's wrong to kill them. I believe individuality determines value of life. If you have your own unique experiences, you have value in my eyes (again, it's subjective). If not, not.
It is subjective. I don't believe that causing unnecessary harm to an individual is ever justifiable, and this view is shared by the majority of the non-sociopathic community. There is no set rule that rape and murder are bad. It's not as if it's like H2O is water, and rape is bad. It is subjective. That's the bottom line.
I do not see anything wrong with it. You have yet to provide a reason why it's not wrong (without appealing to a purely emotional argument i.e. it has fingers and toes!).
"Being alive" is not good enough. We don't treat things as equal to us just because they are alive, and I don't believe we should just because they are human. I think we should treat people with value if they are individuals, i.e. have something that distinguishes them from pure chance, like personal experiences and personal beliefs. A baby out of the womb is already learning and having experiences, thereby making it an individual, and giving it value.
Forgetting that your pregnant? That's silly. Be responsible, and you won't become pregnant. If you are irresponsible, face up to it. Abortion is not a moral and acceptable option anymore.
@hoboscience who said anything about forgetting . if you don't KNOW you are pregnant than morning after pill doesn't help . unless you take it every morning after sex. Abortion is moral and acceptable option in many cases
Yes it is moral and acceptable. Just because you make a mistake doesn't mean it should ruin your life, or at least drastically change the direction of it in a way you didn't want and didn't plan. That's akin to saying that if you didn't study for that one math test and you fail, you should be banned from all institutions of higher learning, or something of that nature. I mean, that's just ridiculous. Just cause you mess up once doesn't mean it's game over.
Life can't always go as planned, and being confronted with the unexpected is a lesson everyone learns to deal with. Ask all the guys that can't afford to go to school because they are paying for child support. Simple mistake but it will impact the rest of their lives. It's fair, it's living up to your responsibilities, it's life.
No, it's not fair, not when you can do something about it. Removing that option is not fair. Unplanned pregnancies ruin lives, and that could easily be avoided with an abortion. You shouldn't have the rest of your life ruined because you got caught up in the heat of the moment (and psychological studies show that you think differently in decision making when you're sexually aroused). That's just not fair, and you know it. If there were no other way, fine. But there is another way.
There are about 20,000 US adoptions a year, and many of them are children adopted from other countries. If you want to throw kids into that hell hole, well, you are a cruel bastard. It would be better for everyone involved if they just didn't exist at all, and, again, since they are unborn, they may as well not exist. And saying "Don't have sex" is ridiculous. You clearly have no clue how the brain functions under a flood of hormones and/or when sexually aroused.
"You shouldn't be having sex" is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. That's like telling a drug addict "You shouldn't be doing drugs." Your body is telling you to do it, and so is your brain. It's not really a conscious choice.
And that is so ridiculous. Many are looking, but they're all looking for that "perfect child". Again, only 20,000 adoption compared to about a million abortions. You do the math.
Of course use prevention, but if you get caught up in the moment, abortion's an option
I am talking mostly about 15-20-odd year olds. It's been shown in huge numbers of psychological studies that you think differently when you are sexually aroused and flooded with hormones, especially about protection. Your decision making is flawed. Saying "Just don't do it" shows your immense ignorance of the subject.
Lazy, selfish twats?! Unplanned pregnancies ruin lives! The statistics clearly show that there are 4000% as many abortions as adoptions, and you think they can balance out?!
I should grow up? What have I said that demonstrates immaturity?
And if you think taking your child and just giving it away as if it was some puppy you didn't want is okay, well, that's what you believe. I personally believe that while the child has no value, it may as well not exist.
And abortion rates are what they are. Adoption is not a realistic alternative. You should grow up and join reality.
And the majority of people who get abortions are under the age of 25. What's your point?
Of course we should educate people, etc. And if you want to throw your child away like a doll you don't want rather then just not buying it (get the analogy, or will I have to explain this one as well), that's your issue. However, abortion must always remain an open, free, and viable option.
screw that if i don't want my baby its getting aborted. SORRY don't like it then get the fuck over it. Abortion is needed in America. Abortion saves lives. Believe it or not. Having sex has no big consequence. get it aborted if you don't want it. Thats a solution.
When you guys reference an article, a study, a video, or whatever, it'd be GREAT if you could post the links to those on the info-box on the right. Thanks!
There's already 3 babies born worldwide every second. Let's prevent any abortions and let the human overpopulation catastrophe get that much worse, yeah?
The whole reason the Catholic Church is pro-life and anti-birth control was bc they wanted to spread Catholicism. If Catholics were reproducing without any chance of abortion they would produce a high number of Catholics. Anyways to stop abortion you have to start educating.
I consider myself a compromising pro-lifer. I'm not really trying to illegalize abortion. I think it's much more practical to reduce the number of people seeking abortion through education, contraceptives and improving the country's adoption and foster system. These figures are ridiculous and horrifying to me. I had no idea such a large percentage of pregnancies were being terminated.
Prochoice also, i just wish most people could be educated in Sex and learn to use a condom and birth control or not have sex at all to prevent having not-planned kids. If abortions were illegal, US population would skyrocket! Well be the next China
If you want to reduce that number, you need to increase education on birth control. Abortions in countries in Europe compared to the US are lower, and my guess is its because Europeans are more open and liberal on sexual matters, and I would think are probably better educated on how to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
Right. There tax money should be available to provide condoms to all high school and middle school students! we should pass them out by the thousands LOL It's a simple idea but i bet it would work
There already are, at least around here, but you actually have to ASK for it.
They used to have them in a fishbowl, but people kept taking them all as a "joke", which got expensive, but more importantly, denied them to the people who actually NEEDED them!
I also remember taking a health class in high school, and now that i think about it, the class was a joke! The teacher was embarassed or afraid to discuss anything serious.. but then again most of high school education is a joke.
I live in Missouri, but I hereby submit that class quality and informative content has gone down to avoid leaving anyone behind, and/or "offending" anyone.
Oddly, you can dissect animals, killing them, without offending MOST "cultures" but you can't teach about sex without offending. Another example of our odd double-standard: Violence is OK, but sex isn't...How does that work again?
Reminds me of a quote by john lennon...I can't remember the exactly wording but it was something like "We live in a world where killing is done in broad daylight for all to see but making love has to be done in the middle of the night behind closed doors."
The sarcasm in your comment is usually the product of people who falsely think that if you dont tell kids about sex, they wont have it, which is absurd. Educating teenagers about sex doesnt mean promoting it, and preventing kids from getting birth control doesnt stop them from having sex. If kids decide to have sex, they should be able to avoid disease and unwanted pregnancy. Its better to deal with reality and reduce social ills than foist your morals on others and promote ignorance.
Pro-Choice here, but of *course* there will be LESS abortions if it is illegal. It's not like drugs...there's no commercially viable "thrill" to getting an abortion, for 99.9% of women ;P
Yes, but remember, the dark irony of it is, the people responsible enough--and RICH enough--to have an abortion, are the responsible ones we NEED more of, whether we WANT them or not!
Aww, come on, condoms are too simple of an answer! They're cheap, 99% effective, and mass-produceable!
All that remains is for people to take responsibility for their actions and/or think ahead. Don't waste CPU cycles calculating the odds of THAT happening!
We have to talk to our kids man. I usually liberal on most issue but on abortion I'm more conservative. I think it's sad especially late term abortions where the nurses can still hear the babies crying. Man! Sick! Poor kids they didn't ask to be here. We have to start talking to our kids!
I agree, sex-education IS important to bring back.
BUT if people pursue illegal avenues and die, they have only their own choices to blame.
(And yes, I HAVE heard about the guy suing his crack-dealer for Product Safety! THAT is out of control!)
Also, have you ever noticed, the ones that fight the hardest for the "right" to kill their unborn will turn right around and try to SAVE the life of a known convict?
I don't understand the whole death penalty argument. Almost seems like one side took a stance at one point, so the the opposite side took the opposite stance just to remain opposite lol.
Most "liberals" I speak with are for the death penalty. There was one woman I spoke with at a bar though who said we shouldn't have killed John Allen Muhammad because she thought he was simply insane to put it bluntly.
Killing criminals is more efficient in a monetary and moral sense, and more importantly, puts across the Message that there WILL be Swift and Terrible Consequences--which could get other potential criminals to change their career plans!
As to not killing a violent enemy just because they're crazy...wait, WHAT? That just gives anyone a free way out! And some of these defenses get really ridiculous...Look up the Twinkie Defense for proof@
Actually when you add the cost of the appeals someone has a right to when sentence to death it's more expense then just to lock them up for the rest of their lives. I'm not comfortable with giving the government the right to kill you regardless of what you have done because any system human beings make is going to be flaw so innocent people have and will be put to death. I don't condone the act of abortion either but it's not my place to tell anyone what to do with their bodies.
That's because of a little loophole in the trial system:
1.) You cannot kill a thug still on trial
2.) Every thug is "entitled" to unlimited number of trials!
With that, any of Schenezerade their way to NEVER getting killed! If say, the third appeal was made "Sudden Death", and neither side was allowed to suppress evidence, but THAT judgement was final, we'd have a lot less of this shit.
The longest a criminal was on Death Row is 50 YEARS! When 50 cents of ammo would've finished the job!
The appeals process is a safe net to try and catch the innocent people who were wrongly convicted and it's far from perfect. However since some of us want the government to kill people may as well make it as difficult as possible. If the appeals process saves one innocent person, which it has, it's a worthwhile barrier.
I'm sorry Cenk, but your point is a little weak. I think you are understating the problem here, To the PRO-life group, these are murders, like any other murder. Something that is alive is having it's life taken from it by the decision of another person.
...to say that "Well, it was worse before it was legal" I think makes an inaccurate leap that the recent decline is due to anything more then good counseling and a surge of the PRO-life group to stop abortions from occurring. 700 was a scary #
I'm glad they're "taking responsibility", just sorry it's AFTER the fact, rather than BEFOREHAND.
Abortion is just the next level in a culture of disposable convenience: The fetus is disposable because it's an inconvenience to the mother. No learning of lessons will take place, let alone association of unprotected sex=pregnancy.
I would like to believe more people use birth-control now, especially since American/European birth-rate numbers are down, but it could be just Wishful Thinking/Temporal Elitism.
Like the other posters have said, if people want abortions, they'll get them illegally, then bitch that breaking the law isn't safe.
And if people want to overbreed, they'll do that too, unless/until we force them not to or let the excesses starve, which is "unfair" or "Inhumane" or something like that!
For them to accept family planning, though, they have to realize the current way isn't working.
As long as the undeserving think they're going to get our wealth anyways, why would they try to improve themselves or their situation? They start to feel they DESERVE it just for existing, and that creates a sort of meta-arrogance.
It's the GREED that makes them call us "racist" or whatever if we cut them off of the suppor they're addicted to!
I'd love family planning, but they have no REASON to yet!
Inability to suppress their biological urges for the Greater Good, like we expect of civilized people?
I agree, there is excuse-making here, but you seem to be making excuses for them NOT to follow the same rules and be held to the same standards as responsible people!
Show me the rich white who's popped out more than they can afford, and said it's everyone else's problem to take care of them? Angelina Jolie, the PARAGON of generosity, has adopted 5 so far, and popped out 3, but she can afford them.
It IS worth noting that these "generous" adopters adopt from foreign countries, which encourages them to breed more so they can win the jackpot too.
Oddly, courts are trying to PREVENT Madonna from adopting a baby from Africa!
"Show me the rich white who's popped out more than they can afford"
It would be impossible to have that many children.
And that wasn't what we were talking about, we were talking about resisting human nature for the greatest good, which that is only one example of.
For the greatest good, Jolie would give all of her money to socially useful causes, but she cannot overcome human nature, which dictates she should keep the majority of her money for her own selfish purposes.
My point of Jolie was that she does give money, but to OTHER COUNTRIES' EXCESS POPULATION, rather than the kids needing adoption in the country that (over)pays her!
And remember, no matter how much welfare we give out, people that rich have armies of accountants to hide their wealth, in exchange for a share of the loot, so the largesse comes from those who have to WORK to make ends meet!
terminal... Too bad his comment on abortions rates just isn't true. Abortions went up substantially after Roe and remained that way for years and have just recently come down to those pre-roe levels due to other factors.
You liberals crack me up. I agree with you on this, criminalizing abortion will not stop it and only make things worse. When it comes to abortion, you get the basic idea that banning something doesn't make it go away, on marijuana you understand that too. Yet you think gun control is the magic solution to gun violence, and that banning guns will keep people from having them. These two things completely contradict one another.
Could you give me an example of a country that used to allow guns, banned them, and now has a safer society to show for it please. The UK banned hand guns in 1997, and to date hand gun crimes are up 30% on average. Never one time in history has a single case of gun control been proven to equal crime control. Vermont is the safest state and has the most liberal gun laws, DC has the strictest and the highest homicide rate. CCW was so successful in FL now 48 states allow concealed carry.
Alright then, what law reduced gun violence? The national academy of science, and organizations all over the world have been trying for over a hundred years to document a case of gun control working. Please share your findings in detail with them. 2008 was a 3 decade low on gun violence in the US, yet gun laws have been largely liberalized over that time. How could that be? How did CCW laws lower gun violence in every state that passed it?
Well, they went up for a little bit, now they're going down. All other crimes, including violent crimes and property theft, have dropped quite a bit since '97. You see, what you need to understand is that liberals recognize that violence is a problem and it needs to be addressed. Zero tolerance hasn't seemed to work. We just want to try something new, something we've never tried in our society.
Well, jail isn't really that much of a punishment in America. "Free" room&board, food, uniforms, Cable TV, even exercise rooms!
Sheriff Joe is taking a lot of shit for making prison a place where people want to AVOID, and making them work instead of just sit there and leech off the taxpayers!
What, you mean government providing everyone free housing, free food, free exercise rooms, free ability to sue the honest people?
Do you have any idea how high taxes would have to be to provide all that?
Moreover, look at government-funded housing...Anything owned by the HUD seems to turn to shit, whether because the Government is incompetent at maintenance, or because they're not allowed to keep the riffraff out, and the "tenants" have no care for those building, since they're not theirs!
Eugenics is KILLING the undesirable, whoever you consider the undesirable to be. My idea is even simpler: Let people make their own decisions, but face the full consequences of it!
Who are the law abiding? We all break some laws, it's not like every criminal has everything illegal he wants.
There are weapons that are very hard to get even in America, because almost no one is allowed to have them. This is the effect of real gun control and half assed gun control.
No, but generally the idea of crime is, "I can't get what I want within the system, so I'll just get it outside the system"
People who live within the law, then, are at a significant disadvantage.
From people denied guns--then killed by scum who don't FEEL like playing by the rules, to the Rules of Engagement in military, to illegal immigrants, to cheaters in games.
If one side plays by the rules, and the other cheats, guess which one will win?
Guns can be made from scratch by anyone of average intelligence. Nuclear weapons is a little different than a 400 year old technology that is guaranteed through the very second amendment of our bill of rights. Look at mexico, the streets are filled with automatic weapons smuggled in from south america, and they are ILLEGAL there. The logic you use is brain numbing. You can't stop people from having guns, common sense will tell you that.
filthy liberal SCUM got to gleefully murder 820,000 little babies this year but they bitch and moan about how 1 abortion doctor got murdered by some kook.
Oh heres a great idea, if some people will still do it when its illegal, lets not even try and just keep it legal. Are you a retard man? The numbers wont be the same if its illegalized. who knows what the numbers will be? But at least effin try to save lives. Come on who freakin cares!!! Their human life forms, at least try to save them! How dang selfish are you when you kill a little one for your onw selfish need. GET A BRAIN TURK!!! take your stupid numbers some where else.
Let's say the person who has the ultimate answer to permanently fix our economy is dying of some tissue-eating disease, and he can't speak unless there's a cure. That aborted baby could save his life literally, and ours financially. One to save millions. I know it sounds selfish, but what can you do?
what the hell are you talking about? you just made a crazy analogy! The guy how can save us all has thos tissue eating disorder and needs an aborted baby to save him?!?! Il give you a 100 bucks when that happens man. For know im gonna stick with given the child a dang chance to have a life.
Hi everyone! Abortion is eugenics. If you think that abortion is good because it prevents "unwanted" babies it's important that you learn the history of Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood. It's on Wikipedia.
Atleast they are down. Could be worse. number could have gone up. They should be grateful for the decrease.
And where would we put all those ppl anyway? there would be alot of hunger and homelessness. People cant take care of the kids they have now. Kids are living in cars with their parents as we speak. those pro life ppl need to think past their own prejudices. How can we feed that many people. They should be more pro abstinence and pregnancy preventive that pro having babies. smdh...
I'm all for a woman's right to make decisions about her reproductive health privately, but having said that, I'll say that my answer to the question is, WHO CARES? I am fed up with the very unfortunate way in which the abortion issue always shows a tendency to rear its ugly head and interfere with deliberations on every other important issue out there. Seems as if there's always someone willing to take up the for/against abortion banner just so they can use it to impede progress on other fronts.
The funny thing about pro-lifers is that their position causes more abortions. For one, there were more abortions when the operation was illegal (as Cenk said). And second, everyone in the pro-life movement, because of their religious beliefs, is opposed to forms of birth control like condoms and the pill. If you really want less abortions then, ironically, you should be pro-choice. Besides, I thought conservatives wanted less govenment interference? Pro-choice=pro-liberty.
You guys can debate the morality of the issue until you are blue in the face. Neither side is going to budge the other's opinion.
Instead, why not try to think of a solution together?
Like, good tax breaks to those who voluntarily sterilize themselves. Think about it.. Less need for abortion, less handout food stamps, crime rate will drop as children are raised in wanting families. Less child abuse from people who don't really want or need kids. Better control of population growth..
You have a point there. I could see it getting twisted into a monstrosity by FOX before it could even be offered reasonably with freedom to choose it or not. :p
This side is already calling out "Eugenics". You don't want to target poor people for sterilization, that's just evil (regardless of your intent). Also, tax breaks don't do much for poor people - tax breaks are for middle class and rich people (and largely should be abolished, but that's another topic).
If you want poor people having fewer births, repair our economic system so people can afford birth control, change your church doctrine, send out condoms with food stamps, something like that.
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That's what liberals do!
shotsky94 6 months ago
people need to keep their legs closed...
PumpkinIceCream 1 year ago
You had a fucking choice, not to be a slut
azzajack 1 year ago
the first documented abortion was done in ancient Egypt, so it should be fucking obvious that abortion will never go away, even that bible supports abortion.
FREEAMERICANOW69 1 year ago
@FREEAMERICANOW69 I don't remember the bible say abortion is great.
rivera229 1 year ago
@rivera229
just read the NIV's footnote of numbers 5:11-31 saying " to CAUSE a miscarrying womb and barrenness"
causing a womb to miscarry is abortion.
it done by a preacher in god's names and god didn't stop.
FREEAMERICANOW69 1 year ago
First off the numbers were less before it was legal. And you're using a falacious approach. Well people are going to have abortions anyway we might as well allow it. What one generation allowed the next embraces. This includes intrisic evils.
piercedearmusic 2 years ago
i'm pro life but i also believe in choice because thats everybodys GOD given right. its the consequences of your choice that you deal with between you an GOD.
rdavian 2 years ago
you sound just like my friend
MrBlackfish011 2 years ago
Margart Sanger she put the HOOD
inthelastdayz 1 year ago
"Having sex has no big consequence. get it aborted if you don't want it. Thats a solution. "
Nobody says or thinks that. I am pro-choice because I believe abortion is a necessary evil. This is right-wing demagoguery at its finest.
Before you make statements like that maybe you should consider what an utter fool you sound like.
.............Because you do.
christosisanah 2 years ago
The ironic part is that all of those abortions aren't simply given to liberal women. It's in conservative schools that don't teach sex education that pregnancies are the highest. Are all those pregnant conservative teens giving birth to their babies? I'd love to see the statistics on that.
MarmaladeINFP 2 years ago
Margaret Sanger she put the HOOD in planned parentHOOD, in her speech she give to KU KLUX KLAN, and said the Klan is a Good Group, sound like she doing the work of SATAN who love Killing Babies just like all ABORTIONEST Doc's that KILL for the love of evil MONEY, RU846 so was Hetler at his Death Camps the HELLOCAUST, only in America can a Mother Kill her unborn baby and the go home free, God will Laugh at your calamity Prov 1:26 even SATAN believe in HELL, REPENT SINNERS OF YOUR SIN,
inthelastdayz 2 years ago
"only in America can a Mother Kill her unborn baby and the go home free, "
That isn't factually accurate. Many countries allow it.
"love Killing Babies just like all ABORTIONEST Doc"
I wouldn't say they love it, any more than a heart surgeon loves cutting through a chest.
Also, what is your definition of a baby? Do you believe killing a single fertilized cell should be grounds for eternal damnation?
m3141592 2 years ago
@inthelastdayz - Aren't you a little old to have an imaginary friend?
There is NO GOD, use your brain.
JOHNINCOLUMBUS 2 years ago
there is a GOD you just got to find him!
rdavian 1 year ago
it'd be cool to see a state-by-state map
SketchyBack 2 years ago
From outside America this entire debate seem pointless. To take away womens own choice over their own body. The Feminist movment was not strong enough in the US.
mwat100 2 years ago
"The Feminist movment was not strong enough in the US. "
I think it's that the catholic church was too strong. I've never heard of anyone saying all abortions should be banned UNLESS they are a religious fundamentalist.
m3141592 2 years ago
You are a moron.
ALGOREisaCULTLEADER 2 years ago
I know this might get some ppl mad but I believe that the PARENTS however young or old has the right over that child. Not the state and not the guy across the street. If the PARENTS beleive (And notice I said PARENTS) they should abort then all to them. The child is not old enough to make it own desicions. I know alot of ppl are like well if it could talk it would say no blah blah blah but still its the parents choice. I ofcourse would never let my loved one get one but thats a PARENTS choice.
StupidityX3 2 years ago
Children is a ticket to poverty - it is american culture that has made this fact. Until that degenerate culture reforms, abort.
cheekieweekie 2 years ago
They're killing they're own kids so who cares? They're also willingly removing they're genes from society, all you can do is laugh.
Vaporifix 2 years ago
I'm pro-choice but goddamn. They give away condoms for free. These dumbasses need to use protection.
jxsilicon9 2 years ago
why don't these skanky women use condoms to prevent not only a baby but STDs. dumbass people..
LisaBreeBranch 2 years ago
man, not one of those women wanted to go through with those abortions....
...any of you who think pro-life are snobs who dont know the real world.
...you tell gay's cant adopt yet you want to stop abortions and fill the orphanages....
econchick 2 years ago
I'm thinking that they should've thought of that BEFORE the pregnancy. You know what noone seems to talk about is how many of these are "repeat customers"?
Sex=pregnancy, Sex+some barrier method=1% chance of pregnancy.
I know America is falling behind in math, but this is ridiculous!
EPGAH 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
A holocaust of people who may as well have never existed. I have committed numerous holocausts this week, but no one is getting on my case about my genocides. Get over it. An unborn person has as much value in their life as a sperm or an egg. They are all potential individuals, but because they are not yet individuals, and therefore have no value.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
Masturbation, ejaculation, billions of dead potential human beings (sperm, if you still don't get it). Now do you understand what I mean?
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
You stating that as if it were a supported opinion doesn't make it a supported opinion, much less fact. Why is it the "worst argument of the century"?
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
No, it's not a strawman. It's my argument for why the unborn have no value. They have the value of sperm and eggs, which are all potential people. However, until they are born, it doesn't matter, because there is nothing that makes them individuals.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
Laws are written by men. I am in favor of abortion up to an including partial-birth. After that, the child is in the real world, and develops its own individualism, and its life has value.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
I am I. I am giving my subjective viewpoint. I am not saying it is unequivocal fact.
And you know what's really interesting? I mean amazingly fascinating? Prokaryotic bacteria. That doesn't mean it's wrong to kill them. I believe individuality determines value of life. If you have your own unique experiences, you have value in my eyes (again, it's subjective). If not, not.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
It is subjective. I don't believe that causing unnecessary harm to an individual is ever justifiable, and this view is shared by the majority of the non-sociopathic community. There is no set rule that rape and murder are bad. It's not as if it's like H2O is water, and rape is bad. It is subjective. That's the bottom line.
I do not see anything wrong with it. You have yet to provide a reason why it's not wrong (without appealing to a purely emotional argument i.e. it has fingers and toes!).
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
"Being alive" is not good enough. We don't treat things as equal to us just because they are alive, and I don't believe we should just because they are human. I think we should treat people with value if they are individuals, i.e. have something that distinguishes them from pure chance, like personal experiences and personal beliefs. A baby out of the womb is already learning and having experiences, thereby making it an individual, and giving it value.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
A embryo is not a child yet though, is it now?
ProdigyBoyo 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
Of course i do. Get off of your high horse.
ProdigyBoyo 2 years ago
Now with the morning after pill readily available everywhere. We should ban abortion. No more rape/incest blah blah blah excuses.
hoboscience 2 years ago
your a stupid ass cunt
econchick 2 years ago
Love you too baby
hoboscience 2 years ago
@hoboscience morning after pill only works day after sex, if you forget your're pregnat. Abortions are needed for reason
Lonao 2 years ago
Forgetting that your pregnant? That's silly. Be responsible, and you won't become pregnant. If you are irresponsible, face up to it. Abortion is not a moral and acceptable option anymore.
hoboscience 2 years ago
@hoboscience who said anything about forgetting . if you don't KNOW you are pregnant than morning after pill doesn't help . unless you take it every morning after sex. Abortion is moral and acceptable option in many cases
Lonao 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
Yes it is moral and acceptable. Just because you make a mistake doesn't mean it should ruin your life, or at least drastically change the direction of it in a way you didn't want and didn't plan. That's akin to saying that if you didn't study for that one math test and you fail, you should be banned from all institutions of higher learning, or something of that nature. I mean, that's just ridiculous. Just cause you mess up once doesn't mean it's game over.
Also, anymore? When was it okay?
atlant80 2 years ago
Life can't always go as planned, and being confronted with the unexpected is a lesson everyone learns to deal with. Ask all the guys that can't afford to go to school because they are paying for child support. Simple mistake but it will impact the rest of their lives. It's fair, it's living up to your responsibilities, it's life.
hoboscience 2 years ago
No, it's not fair, not when you can do something about it. Removing that option is not fair. Unplanned pregnancies ruin lives, and that could easily be avoided with an abortion. You shouldn't have the rest of your life ruined because you got caught up in the heat of the moment (and psychological studies show that you think differently in decision making when you're sexually aroused). That's just not fair, and you know it. If there were no other way, fine. But there is another way.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
There are about 20,000 US adoptions a year, and many of them are children adopted from other countries. If you want to throw kids into that hell hole, well, you are a cruel bastard. It would be better for everyone involved if they just didn't exist at all, and, again, since they are unborn, they may as well not exist. And saying "Don't have sex" is ridiculous. You clearly have no clue how the brain functions under a flood of hormones and/or when sexually aroused.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
"You shouldn't be having sex" is an absolutely ridiculous thing to say. That's like telling a drug addict "You shouldn't be doing drugs." Your body is telling you to do it, and so is your brain. It's not really a conscious choice.
And that is so ridiculous. Many are looking, but they're all looking for that "perfect child". Again, only 20,000 adoption compared to about a million abortions. You do the math.
Of course use prevention, but if you get caught up in the moment, abortion's an option
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
I am talking mostly about 15-20-odd year olds. It's been shown in huge numbers of psychological studies that you think differently when you are sexually aroused and flooded with hormones, especially about protection. Your decision making is flawed. Saying "Just don't do it" shows your immense ignorance of the subject.
Lazy, selfish twats?! Unplanned pregnancies ruin lives! The statistics clearly show that there are 4000% as many abortions as adoptions, and you think they can balance out?!
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
I should grow up? What have I said that demonstrates immaturity?
And if you think taking your child and just giving it away as if it was some puppy you didn't want is okay, well, that's what you believe. I personally believe that while the child has no value, it may as well not exist.
And abortion rates are what they are. Adoption is not a realistic alternative. You should grow up and join reality.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
And the majority of people who get abortions are under the age of 25. What's your point?
Of course we should educate people, etc. And if you want to throw your child away like a doll you don't want rather then just not buying it (get the analogy, or will I have to explain this one as well), that's your issue. However, abortion must always remain an open, free, and viable option.
atlant80 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
abortion isn't the problem, it's the solution to a specific problems, namely ignorance and fair causes (be it failed contraceptions or crimes)
Sutskoen 2 years ago
screw that if i don't want my baby its getting aborted. SORRY don't like it then get the fuck over it. Abortion is needed in America. Abortion saves lives. Believe it or not. Having sex has no big consequence. get it aborted if you don't want it. Thats a solution.
helloenemy 2 years ago
"Having sex has no big consequence. get it aborted if you don't want it. Thats a solution. "
From a medical point of view an abortion is an absolute last resort. Contraception is medically preferable, and can stop you getting HIV.
m3141592 2 years ago
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CosmoHunter24 2 years ago
When you guys reference an article, a study, a video, or whatever, it'd be GREAT if you could post the links to those on the info-box on the right. Thanks!
cogitoergosum321 2 years ago
that's a lot. They seem inflated. I don't believe them. Regardless, even if there were 1000 abortions for 1000 people I still wouldn't care.
whatnameisavailablee 2 years ago
There's already 3 babies born worldwide every second. Let's prevent any abortions and let the human overpopulation catastrophe get that much worse, yeah?
elsamuraiguapo 2 years ago
The whole reason the Catholic Church is pro-life and anti-birth control was bc they wanted to spread Catholicism. If Catholics were reproducing without any chance of abortion they would produce a high number of Catholics. Anyways to stop abortion you have to start educating.
truereligionlver42 2 years ago
Wait, do you really believe that or is that just a joke? I want to make sure.
tarkus588 2 years ago
how many abortions take place in America? not enough.
kcr216 2 years ago
I consider myself a compromising pro-lifer. I'm not really trying to illegalize abortion. I think it's much more practical to reduce the number of people seeking abortion through education, contraceptives and improving the country's adoption and foster system. These figures are ridiculous and horrifying to me. I had no idea such a large percentage of pregnancies were being terminated.
AngryPirateProd 2 years ago
Prochoice also, i just wish most people could be educated in Sex and learn to use a condom and birth control or not have sex at all to prevent having not-planned kids. If abortions were illegal, US population would skyrocket! Well be the next China
Chris12163 2 years ago
If you want to reduce that number, you need to increase education on birth control. Abortions in countries in Europe compared to the US are lower, and my guess is its because Europeans are more open and liberal on sexual matters, and I would think are probably better educated on how to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place.
kosmoincalgary 2 years ago 2
Right. There tax money should be available to provide condoms to all high school and middle school students! we should pass them out by the thousands LOL It's a simple idea but i bet it would work
pboisei 2 years ago
There already are, at least around here, but you actually have to ASK for it.
They used to have them in a fishbowl, but people kept taking them all as a "joke", which got expensive, but more importantly, denied them to the people who actually NEEDED them!
EPGAH 2 years ago
Really?...where do you live, because in texas this is not so common as far as i know..and i live in the third largest city in thte state.
pboisei 2 years ago
I also remember taking a health class in high school, and now that i think about it, the class was a joke! The teacher was embarassed or afraid to discuss anything serious.. but then again most of high school education is a joke.
pboisei 2 years ago 2
I live in Missouri, but I hereby submit that class quality and informative content has gone down to avoid leaving anyone behind, and/or "offending" anyone.
Oddly, you can dissect animals, killing them, without offending MOST "cultures" but you can't teach about sex without offending. Another example of our odd double-standard: Violence is OK, but sex isn't...How does that work again?
EPGAH 2 years ago
Reminds me of a quote by john lennon...I can't remember the exactly wording but it was something like "We live in a world where killing is done in broad daylight for all to see but making love has to be done in the middle of the night behind closed doors."
btw i'm from missouri too
TheBackOfTheBoat 2 years ago
The sarcasm in your comment is usually the product of people who falsely think that if you dont tell kids about sex, they wont have it, which is absurd. Educating teenagers about sex doesnt mean promoting it, and preventing kids from getting birth control doesnt stop them from having sex. If kids decide to have sex, they should be able to avoid disease and unwanted pregnancy. Its better to deal with reality and reduce social ills than foist your morals on others and promote ignorance.
kosmoincalgary 2 years ago 9
Pro-Choice here, but of *course* there will be LESS abortions if it is illegal. It's not like drugs...there's no commercially viable "thrill" to getting an abortion, for 99.9% of women ;P
aaronsande 2 years ago
What the hell? I'm Pro-Choice and it freaks me out. Hasn't anybody heard of a condom?
shoogie06 2 years ago 16
sounds good to me the human species is overpopulated
6enlighten9 2 years ago 2
Yes, but remember, the dark irony of it is, the people responsible enough--and RICH enough--to have an abortion, are the responsible ones we NEED more of, whether we WANT them or not!
EPGAH 2 years ago
Condoms anyone?
IFloridaMotocrossI 2 years ago
Aww, come on, condoms are too simple of an answer! They're cheap, 99% effective, and mass-produceable!
All that remains is for people to take responsibility for their actions and/or think ahead. Don't waste CPU cycles calculating the odds of THAT happening!
EPGAH 2 years ago
Deceptive numbers. People forget that over 20% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage anyway. God is a mass murderer.
dudev 2 years ago 8
I think the 456 needs to come to Earth. :)
(Anyone? LOL)
twins1729 2 years ago
@TheCatlady78 What abotu condoms as a form of birth control? They aren't that expensive. Us fellas need to take responsibility also.
pookiewood 2 years ago
We have to talk to our kids man. I usually liberal on most issue but on abortion I'm more conservative. I think it's sad especially late term abortions where the nurses can still hear the babies crying. Man! Sick! Poor kids they didn't ask to be here. We have to start talking to our kids!
pookiewood 2 years ago
Oh wow, I'm pro choice, but we're out of control. It's irresponsible to be using abortion as birth control.
I mean My God these numbers are high, but if they're going down, perhaps it's education that's working the best as I've always said!
Making abortion illegal won't get rid of it, it will simply create a black market for it and criminals get rich, and health risk sky rockets.
Educating our girls on every aspect of things like this is SO IMPORTANT in getting these numbers down!
LoryLandskipper 2 years ago
I agree, sex-education IS important to bring back.
BUT if people pursue illegal avenues and die, they have only their own choices to blame.
(And yes, I HAVE heard about the guy suing his crack-dealer for Product Safety! THAT is out of control!)
Also, have you ever noticed, the ones that fight the hardest for the "right" to kill their unborn will turn right around and try to SAVE the life of a known convict?
EPGAH 2 years ago
I don't understand the whole death penalty argument. Almost seems like one side took a stance at one point, so the the opposite side took the opposite stance just to remain opposite lol.
Most "liberals" I speak with are for the death penalty. There was one woman I spoke with at a bar though who said we shouldn't have killed John Allen Muhammad because she thought he was simply insane to put it bluntly.
It is a real head-scratcher.
LoryLandskipper 2 years ago
That was my own take on the situation too.
Killing criminals is more efficient in a monetary and moral sense, and more importantly, puts across the Message that there WILL be Swift and Terrible Consequences--which could get other potential criminals to change their career plans!
As to not killing a violent enemy just because they're crazy...wait, WHAT? That just gives anyone a free way out! And some of these defenses get really ridiculous...Look up the Twinkie Defense for proof@
EPGAH 2 years ago
Actually when you add the cost of the appeals someone has a right to when sentence to death it's more expense then just to lock them up for the rest of their lives. I'm not comfortable with giving the government the right to kill you regardless of what you have done because any system human beings make is going to be flaw so innocent people have and will be put to death. I don't condone the act of abortion either but it's not my place to tell anyone what to do with their bodies.
deathmetalwolf85 2 years ago 2
That's because of a little loophole in the trial system:
1.) You cannot kill a thug still on trial
2.) Every thug is "entitled" to unlimited number of trials!
With that, any of Schenezerade their way to NEVER getting killed! If say, the third appeal was made "Sudden Death", and neither side was allowed to suppress evidence, but THAT judgement was final, we'd have a lot less of this shit.
The longest a criminal was on Death Row is 50 YEARS! When 50 cents of ammo would've finished the job!
EPGAH 2 years ago
The appeals process is a safe net to try and catch the innocent people who were wrongly convicted and it's far from perfect. However since some of us want the government to kill people may as well make it as difficult as possible. If the appeals process saves one innocent person, which it has, it's a worthwhile barrier.
deathmetalwolf85 2 years ago
There ARE some organizations--including even some SCHOOLS--that will GIVE you free birth-control, if you just have the balls or ovaries to ask.
Incidentally, the world record for number of abortions on one woman is 22! After, say, the third, don't you think they should be sterilized?
Like I said to m3141592, they just don't learn!
And also check watch?v=mpcsk49pmXQ
A woman ADDICTED to abortions...It's creepy!
EPGAH 2 years ago
I'm sorry Cenk, but your point is a little weak. I think you are understating the problem here, To the PRO-life group, these are murders, like any other murder. Something that is alive is having it's life taken from it by the decision of another person.
...to say that "Well, it was worse before it was legal" I think makes an inaccurate leap that the recent decline is due to anything more then good counseling and a surge of the PRO-life group to stop abortions from occurring. 700 was a scary #
TheOGCobra 2 years ago
That's a lot of abortions. I blame the level of education.
m3141592 2 years ago
I'm glad they're "taking responsibility", just sorry it's AFTER the fact, rather than BEFOREHAND.
Abortion is just the next level in a culture of disposable convenience: The fetus is disposable because it's an inconvenience to the mother. No learning of lessons will take place, let alone association of unprotected sex=pregnancy.
I AM interested in how THEY think that happened!
"How did that get there?"
EPGAH 2 years ago
Clearly, a lot of people use abortion as another form of birth control.
audadvnc 2 years ago
Heehee, yes, and if you look in the links, one woman is even ADDICTED TO ABORTION(!)
But remember, abortion is a CHOICE, and no other form of birth-control is that "empowering"!
EPGAH 2 years ago
I don't believe it. I want to see where they got their data
IcyKitty 2 years ago
"The numbers were higher when it was illegal."
I agree that people will do it if it's legal or not, but can't that be because we have better birth control now?
lilmissnisa 2 years ago
I would like to believe more people use birth-control now, especially since American/European birth-rate numbers are down, but it could be just Wishful Thinking/Temporal Elitism.
Like the other posters have said, if people want abortions, they'll get them illegally, then bitch that breaking the law isn't safe.
And if people want to overbreed, they'll do that too, unless/until we force them not to or let the excesses starve, which is "unfair" or "Inhumane" or something like that!
EPGAH 2 years ago
"if people want to overbreed, they'll do that too, unless/until we force them not to or let the excesses starve,"
How about just thinking about why they "overbreed" in the first place, and change that?
You're honestly saying you prefer starving babies to family planning?
m3141592 2 years ago
For them to accept family planning, though, they have to realize the current way isn't working.
As long as the undeserving think they're going to get our wealth anyways, why would they try to improve themselves or their situation? They start to feel they DESERVE it just for existing, and that creates a sort of meta-arrogance.
It's the GREED that makes them call us "racist" or whatever if we cut them off of the suppor they're addicted to!
I'd love family planning, but they have no REASON to yet!
EPGAH 2 years ago
Treating symptoms doesn't cure the root cause.
m3141592 2 years ago
Ok, and what are these root causes?
Stupidity?
Laziness?
Inability to suppress their biological urges for the Greater Good, like we expect of civilized people?
I agree, there is excuse-making here, but you seem to be making excuses for them NOT to follow the same rules and be held to the same standards as responsible people!
EPGAH 2 years ago
"Inability to suppress their biological urges for the Greater Good"
When has anyone ever done that? When have the rich white people you're promoting as the paragons of humanity ever done that?
m3141592 2 years ago
Show me the rich white who's popped out more than they can afford, and said it's everyone else's problem to take care of them? Angelina Jolie, the PARAGON of generosity, has adopted 5 so far, and popped out 3, but she can afford them.
It IS worth noting that these "generous" adopters adopt from foreign countries, which encourages them to breed more so they can win the jackpot too.
Oddly, courts are trying to PREVENT Madonna from adopting a baby from Africa!
The irony is ridiculous!
EPGAH 2 years ago
"Show me the rich white who's popped out more than they can afford"
It would be impossible to have that many children.
And that wasn't what we were talking about, we were talking about resisting human nature for the greatest good, which that is only one example of.
For the greatest good, Jolie would give all of her money to socially useful causes, but she cannot overcome human nature, which dictates she should keep the majority of her money for her own selfish purposes.
So try again.
m3141592 2 years ago
My point of Jolie was that she does give money, but to OTHER COUNTRIES' EXCESS POPULATION, rather than the kids needing adoption in the country that (over)pays her!
And remember, no matter how much welfare we give out, people that rich have armies of accountants to hide their wealth, in exchange for a share of the loot, so the largesse comes from those who have to WORK to make ends meet!
EPGAH 2 years ago
Actually, I consider sports stars, then actors/actresses to be the least deserving of the ridiculous wealth they get--and look what they do with it!
Also, why DEMAND that much for movies/playing ball? After houses, clothes, food, whores, and drugs, how much do they really need to spend?
EPGAH 2 years ago
"Ok, and what are these root causes?"
Human nature and capitalism. That combination is why the poor stay poor and the rich have all the power, including the power to make the poor poorer.
m3141592 2 years ago
BTW, was it you or another poster who said that to make them stop breeding would take a zero-privacy police state?
EPGAH 2 years ago
At least there are more live births than abortions.
newman21000 2 years ago
lol 'Virginia'
Aspire198 2 years ago
This is good news there is going to be less amricans in the world.
aceone1988 2 years ago
yes
PowerfulSplicer 2 years ago 2
terminal... Too bad his comment on abortions rates just isn't true. Abortions went up substantially after Roe and remained that way for years and have just recently come down to those pre-roe levels due to other factors.
nnhawk 2 years ago
Cenk, you sum it up best at 2:08
Not only were more there more abortions when it was illegal, but more women died from or during the abortion.
terminaldeity 2 years ago 2
If we didn't have all those abortions, we'd have even more unemployment.
terminaldeity 2 years ago
And crime
eirefrance 2 years ago
Absolutely. Cenk should have mentioned that. Birth control is the best answer. If it was promoted the way it could be.
theotherhands 2 years ago
You liberals crack me up. I agree with you on this, criminalizing abortion will not stop it and only make things worse. When it comes to abortion, you get the basic idea that banning something doesn't make it go away, on marijuana you understand that too. Yet you think gun control is the magic solution to gun violence, and that banning guns will keep people from having them. These two things completely contradict one another.
icecoldbeerr 2 years ago
The reason "liberals" believe that is it works in other countries.
TheGiantRobot 2 years ago
Could you give me an example of a country that used to allow guns, banned them, and now has a safer society to show for it please. The UK banned hand guns in 1997, and to date hand gun crimes are up 30% on average. Never one time in history has a single case of gun control been proven to equal crime control. Vermont is the safest state and has the most liberal gun laws, DC has the strictest and the highest homicide rate. CCW was so successful in FL now 48 states allow concealed carry.
icecoldbeerr 2 years ago
Gun control doesn't 100% keep out guns. No law stops anything 100%, it reduces it.
TheGiantRobot 2 years ago
Alright then, what law reduced gun violence? The national academy of science, and organizations all over the world have been trying for over a hundred years to document a case of gun control working. Please share your findings in detail with them. 2008 was a 3 decade low on gun violence in the US, yet gun laws have been largely liberalized over that time. How could that be? How did CCW laws lower gun violence in every state that passed it?
icecoldbeerr 2 years ago
Well, they went up for a little bit, now they're going down. All other crimes, including violent crimes and property theft, have dropped quite a bit since '97. You see, what you need to understand is that liberals recognize that violence is a problem and it needs to be addressed. Zero tolerance hasn't seemed to work. We just want to try something new, something we've never tried in our society.
eirefrance 2 years ago
Well, jail isn't really that much of a punishment in America. "Free" room&board, food, uniforms, Cable TV, even exercise rooms!
Sheriff Joe is taking a lot of shit for making prison a place where people want to AVOID, and making them work instead of just sit there and leech off the taxpayers!
EPGAH 2 years ago
"Well, jail isn't really that much of a punishment in America."
Have you tried it or are you speaking out of ignorance again?
m3141592 2 years ago
I've worked in one before. Look up FedMed. I'll PM you links if you want!
EPGAH 2 years ago
"I've worked in one before."
And you didn't think it was all that bad? I'm surprised. Maybe you should work towards making the whole country like that.
Oh, wait.
m3141592 2 years ago
What, you mean government providing everyone free housing, free food, free exercise rooms, free ability to sue the honest people?
Do you have any idea how high taxes would have to be to provide all that?
Moreover, look at government-funded housing...Anything owned by the HUD seems to turn to shit, whether because the Government is incompetent at maintenance, or because they're not allowed to keep the riffraff out, and the "tenants" have no care for those building, since they're not theirs!
EPGAH 2 years ago
You're just repeating the same prejudices and bullshit excuses over and over again.
Why don't you just say what you really think instead of these elaborate euphemisms.
m3141592 2 years ago
Umm, the Government doesn't have to be cost-effective because you HAVE to pay them, or face punishments.
Therefore, "taxes" are just taking it from us to pay us.
I'm Libertarian, the Government needs to pare down to just schools, roads, and internal/external defense (Cops/military)
EPGAH 2 years ago
"I'm Libertarian"
Really? I'd have pegged you more as a fascist with all that eugenics stuff.
m3141592 2 years ago
Eugenics is KILLING the undesirable, whoever you consider the undesirable to be. My idea is even simpler: Let people make their own decisions, but face the full consequences of it!
EPGAH 2 years ago
The laws only restrict the law-abiding. If abortion is illegal, only the law-abiding will not have it.
If guns are illegal, then only the criminals will have guns!
It just makes the honest people even better prey!
EPGAH 2 years ago
Who are the law abiding? We all break some laws, it's not like every criminal has everything illegal he wants.
There are weapons that are very hard to get even in America, because almost no one is allowed to have them. This is the effect of real gun control and half assed gun control.
TheGiantRobot 2 years ago
No, but generally the idea of crime is, "I can't get what I want within the system, so I'll just get it outside the system"
People who live within the law, then, are at a significant disadvantage.
From people denied guns--then killed by scum who don't FEEL like playing by the rules, to the Rules of Engagement in military, to illegal immigrants, to cheaters in games.
If one side plays by the rules, and the other cheats, guess which one will win?
EPGAH 2 years ago
Guns can be made from scratch by anyone of average intelligence. Nuclear weapons is a little different than a 400 year old technology that is guaranteed through the very second amendment of our bill of rights. Look at mexico, the streets are filled with automatic weapons smuggled in from south america, and they are ILLEGAL there. The logic you use is brain numbing. You can't stop people from having guns, common sense will tell you that.
icecoldbeerr 2 years ago
filthy liberal SCUM got to gleefully murder 820,000 little babies this year but they bitch and moan about how 1 abortion doctor got murdered by some kook.
LIBERAL FILTH
friction00815 2 years ago
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Valkyria121212 2 years ago
Oh heres a great idea, if some people will still do it when its illegal, lets not even try and just keep it legal. Are you a retard man? The numbers wont be the same if its illegalized. who knows what the numbers will be? But at least effin try to save lives. Come on who freakin cares!!! Their human life forms, at least try to save them! How dang selfish are you when you kill a little one for your onw selfish need. GET A BRAIN TURK!!! take your stupid numbers some where else.
xXTjFoDaddYXx 2 years ago
Let's say the person who has the ultimate answer to permanently fix our economy is dying of some tissue-eating disease, and he can't speak unless there's a cure. That aborted baby could save his life literally, and ours financially. One to save millions. I know it sounds selfish, but what can you do?
moonodude17 2 years ago
what the hell are you talking about? you just made a crazy analogy! The guy how can save us all has thos tissue eating disorder and needs an aborted baby to save him?!?! Il give you a 100 bucks when that happens man. For know im gonna stick with given the child a dang chance to have a life.
xXTjFoDaddYXx 2 years ago
I forgot to mention that the aborted fetus is usually too weak to survive outside the womb for more than a day at the most.
moonodude17 2 years ago
Hi everyone! Abortion is eugenics. If you think that abortion is good because it prevents "unwanted" babies it's important that you learn the history of Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood. It's on Wikipedia.
anarchyfortheusa 2 years ago
Atleast they are down. Could be worse. number could have gone up. They should be grateful for the decrease.
And where would we put all those ppl anyway? there would be alot of hunger and homelessness. People cant take care of the kids they have now. Kids are living in cars with their parents as we speak. those pro life ppl need to think past their own prejudices. How can we feed that many people. They should be more pro abstinence and pregnancy preventive that pro having babies. smdh...
diah4 2 years ago
The pro life people need to think more about pro birth control.
TheGiantRobot 2 years ago 2
I'm all for a woman's right to make decisions about her reproductive health privately, but having said that, I'll say that my answer to the question is, WHO CARES? I am fed up with the very unfortunate way in which the abortion issue always shows a tendency to rear its ugly head and interfere with deliberations on every other important issue out there. Seems as if there's always someone willing to take up the for/against abortion banner just so they can use it to impede progress on other fronts.
armyveteran101st 2 years ago
Those 820,000 would have gotten the abortions anyway, had it been illegal. They would have been exposed to organised crime.
I wonder how many of these people having abortions have been taught "abstinence only"?
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
The funny thing about pro-lifers is that their position causes more abortions. For one, there were more abortions when the operation was illegal (as Cenk said). And second, everyone in the pro-life movement, because of their religious beliefs, is opposed to forms of birth control like condoms and the pill. If you really want less abortions then, ironically, you should be pro-choice. Besides, I thought conservatives wanted less govenment interference? Pro-choice=pro-liberty.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
Banning abortions takes away government control of it, and puts it into the hands of organised crime.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
Agreed. Another reason to keep abortion legal.
MassLiberal1 2 years ago
You guys can debate the morality of the issue until you are blue in the face. Neither side is going to budge the other's opinion.
Instead, why not try to think of a solution together?
Like, good tax breaks to those who voluntarily sterilize themselves. Think about it.. Less need for abortion, less handout food stamps, crime rate will drop as children are raised in wanting families. Less child abuse from people who don't really want or need kids. Better control of population growth..
Valkyria121212 2 years ago
Nobody will like that. Both sides will shout "EUGENICS!" "GENOCIDE!"
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
Sterilize, as in taking fertility away from people, not their lives
Valkyria121212 2 years ago
They don't even like the idea of taking their guns away.
dangerouslytalented 2 years ago
You have a point there. I could see it getting twisted into a monstrosity by FOX before it could even be offered reasonably with freedom to choose it or not. :p
Valkyria121212 2 years ago
@dangerouslytalented
Oh, Eugenics. I had never heard of the word for that before.
Since it would be totally up to the individual, it would not be eugenic I think
Valkyria121212 2 years ago
This side is already calling out "Eugenics". You don't want to target poor people for sterilization, that's just evil (regardless of your intent). Also, tax breaks don't do much for poor people - tax breaks are for middle class and rich people (and largely should be abolished, but that's another topic).
If you want poor people having fewer births, repair our economic system so people can afford birth control, change your church doctrine, send out condoms with food stamps, something like that.
TheGiantRobot 2 years ago