Godan Sakki Test - Ninjutsu Training

[Realmasterorder]

Impressive !

[fourplusseven]

This is a great pass, just like it should be done.

I love Hatsumi in the background, no-one has ever been more Yoda-like.

[DEATHITSELF248]

OMG YOU WHERE WITH MASSAKKI HATSUMI? (if i spelled that right)

[niteblood82]

Excelente

[Vettel55]

the shihan is juan manuel serrano?

[shinobiryukenden]

@Vettel55 Yes, correct!

[Vettel55]

@shinobiryukenden ok thank you.

[gusrod78]

Of course he knows it's gonn ahappen, that's what the test is all about, to know, feel, sense the intention and react accordingly.

[weebles777]

Congratulations! Good pass!

[aisukurimusandoichi]

Great pass... Its rare to see a true pass nowadays, but you can tell you felt the intent the moment Shihan begins to move. No flinches beforehand and total commitment to the actions based on your first instinct. You're going to be a great Shidoshi, congratulations!!!

[Taud]

@Shaolinchan32 its become more "ceremonial" in ancient times you would have used a real sword and if the person died they werent worthy of the school, id like to mention the saki test would be illegal in this day in age, to ask one of your students to kneel before you and swing a real katana at him with intent to slice and kill.... he would be charged and the school shut down, so instead of all that, its changed with the times

[shinobiryukenden]

@VietBoiTom I can assure you that is not what happened. The Shihan performing the test, who is with the sword, I had never met him before that day. There were a few others who took the test that day, and failed because they did not have the feeling. Check this other video out from a previous year /watch?v=QLvOZ1O96Jo

[VietBoiTom]

@shinobiryukenden haha great clip you sent me. the video has supported your test then and i congradulate you on passing. tho one of the guys in the video that did pass i believe was sheer luck -_- he kept ducking, and happend to duck at the right time. a bigger bald male.

[shinobiryukenden]

@VietBoiTom Thank you. Sometimes it is luck, or maybe destiny. It was explained to me, that in real life some people survive accidents, fights, or disasters by dumb luck. A saying in Japanese about the gods have us on strings and move us. So if a person passes by accidentally ducking then its considered a pass anyways. I wanted to really feel the intent, so when I sat there I was willing to get hit on the head, but then my body felt the danger, and felt an immediate need to roll away.

[VietBoiTom]

@shinobiryukenden good response, ill keep that in mind.

[shinobiryukenden]

@VietBoiTom Thanks!

[gekiryudojo]

the 4th of March is my birthday :)

[gekiryudojo]

good pass (see mine on my channel in 1995 with Hatsumi)

[shinobiryukenden]

@gekiryudojo Thank you for your comment. I could not find your video, can you pm me the link. I would like to add it to my sakki jutsu playlist. Thanks again!

[gekiryudojo]

@shinobiryukenden this is it 

/watch?v=ChKogMZOv0g

copy and paste, it a fun side to it I think the Boss would like it!

[shinobiryukenden]

@gekiryudojo Thanks for the link. Great pass, and good to see some old footage of training. Where was this located?

[gekiryudojo]

@shinobiryukenden Thanks! the test (first time pass) was in Stratford upon Avon UK October 1995, the training after Barrow in furness 1995

[jskbond]

Love watching this bro... Its awesome.

[shinobiryukenden]

@jskbond Thanks bro! Hope all is well with you. Did you check out the latest videos I am publishing at the bjkninja youtube channel?

[stevensartifacts]

if they really wanted to make this a test to sense 'ki' or some sort of energy, they would use earplugs. isn't it obvious that even if the swordsman makes a quiet noise in a quiet room, it will tip them off when to roll?

that in itself is a good test-- being keen with your senses and quick with your dodging, but as a test for the sensing for 'energy'? it is not.

i invite you to try it blindfolded and earplugged and with more random amounts of waiting time (upwards of a couple minutes)

[shinobiryukenden]

Always great to hear from people who have not gone through this experience. Also making assumptions that we do not do some of the things you mentioned during regular class to prepare.

[stevensartifacts]

if you really think you can sense 'energy', and you just somehow know that a sword is plummeting towards your head, then please, do all the skeptics, and your friends a favor and set up an experiment with the James randi challenge--- one million bucks to anyone who can prove they have a paranormal skill of this type. you work with their team to make a satisfactory testing protocol.

[Nordrian]

Pretty good one, I saw some that were so-so, but you did it well, gratz, wish I could do it in japan, but I'm afraid that by the time I make it to 5th dan, Hatsumi wont be here for the godan test anymore :p if here at all.

[ihaterobbie123]

@shinobiryukenden

I haven't gone through it but it's either a small noise or the weight shift of the swordsman on the flexing floor. Try it on a solid stone floor and plug your ears, then it may be authentic.

You have your eyes slightly open but it's not face expression recognition (assuming you know how to rest).

[fourplusseven]

1st of all, *you* to try it -- at all, any way you like. 2nd of all, if you had even been in the same room as a godan test you would have known hearing has nothing to do with it.

Newsflash: we've all got ears. Have a look at some of the more egregious YouTube fails and ask yourself why they seem to hear nothing, if that's what they're attempting.

For example see the very first test here:

watch?v=QLvOZ1O96Jo&feature=re­lated

... did the guy hear but react too slowly? Clearly not.

[stevensartifacts]

some subtle noises are obviously created-- most of the time, we filter these noises out but i would bet that you can cultivate an acuity of perception that will allow you to pick up on very very subtle sensory input. it's become internalized, and the processing occurs in an unconscious instant (read Blink).

so your point is invalid-- he might have been hearing-- or sensing some under-threshold sensory input that you, and the other testers, were not.

[gekiryudojo]

@stevensartifacts you numbnut if you trained instead of beating yourself off every day you might pick it up but I doubt it :)

[fourplusseven]

Hey Shinobiryukenden

You might not be interested in this sort of stuff, but there's a lot of good science work going on now (by people like Rupert Sheldrake) about how people can feel it when they are being stared at. Whenever I talk about this with anyone online now, I always send them here! This clip is completely badass.

[shinobiryukenden]

Yes some people choose not to have an open mind, but that is ok, to each his own way, and path in life. I am glad you enjoyed the video, and continue with your research. We often talk about that feeling when you are driving and feel another driver staring at you in traffic or at a stop. There is a connection between all of us.

[stevensartifacts]

@shinobiryukenden i think you are the one without the open mind since you have a blind faith that some magical or psychic ability is at work here. it makes more sense that humans filter out stimuli under a certain threshold,but with enough training we can sensitize ourselves to even the smallest stimuli.

i'd give you $1000 if you knew when to roll with all your senses plugged up.

what you claim is magic. James Randi will give you $1mil if you can prove it in a scientific setting. good luck.

[shinobiryukenden]

@stevensartifacts I am fairly open minded and do believe in the possibility of reaction time of a disciplined martial artist could be at play here. It is possible that a slight air pressure change, vibration, or some very minute subtle change in the environment can cause a martial artist to react quicker then the average person. I also believe in the possibility of something spiritual at work. I am assuming you are an atheist, and do not have any beliefs beyond what you can prove in a lab.

[stevensartifacts]

@shinobiryukenden i think we are essentially the same in outlook, as i believe in the possibility of something more 'spiritual' happening but maybe our difference is that you tend to lean towards the spiritual explanation.

i've observed many events that i can't explain (like synchronicity) but i think that maybe those experiences are explainable by something like apophenia or confirmation bias. BUT, even if they're tricks ofthemind, it doesn't prevent me from viewing those events symbolically.

[shinobiryukenden]

@stevensartifacts Hey at least we can meet in the middle, though you lean more on the physical/scientific realm, and I on the spiritual. Possible combination of both at play. Yes I have also experienced synchronicity, will look up apophenia. Have you looked into the Law of Attraction, not necessarily from "The Secret", but more from Napolean Hill. Modern day author Brain Tracy explains LOA much better, and grounded in reality.

[stevensartifacts]

@shinobiryukenden but seriously, i would bet you money that this test is flawed and that no one could pass it. i would put up money to anyone who could but fortunately James Randi already has.

find someone who you think can psychically know when to roll and go to James Randi- you work with them to set up a protocol (ear plugs, blindfold, random amounts of waiting time etc.) and once you're happy with it, you go and test. if you prove your supernatural ability, you get $1,000,000.

[shinobiryukenden]

@stevensartifacts I really don't have the time or interest to prove, or disprove. I do believe there are people who probably could do it. But people at this level usually dont care about fame or fortune. I met people outside of martial arts, in business world, that can somewhat manipulate reality. These people have made multi-millions and have no interest in proving their ability. They feel their success speaks for itself. Check out the people behind MindValley as an example.

[scottbaioisdead]

@stevensartifacts its not possible for the sakki test to be performed under randi's standards, the test would require someone who can project the sakki and someone who can sense the sakki so it's inherently flawed because the point isn't just to roll away from someone swinging something at you with no intent(though it is in the genbukan) so you're trying to prove two different things in one test i've been in contact with randi before, i'm an atheist and skeptic but i don't think the test is

[scottbaioisdead]

2 something magical i think it's a natural progression of training when you constantly deal with being attacked

[stevensartifacts]

@scottbaioisdead ?? why couldn't you have someone who could project the 'sakki' and someone who could sense the 'sakki'? if the point is being able to sense something beyond the capability of our physical senses to sense, then i don't see why you couldn't set that up with the right people in a scientific setting.

[scottbaioisdead]

@stevensartifacts because thats the same set up as the two "psychics" who responded to each other miles away, when you have two people set up to perform specific actions they could develop an imperceptible system. the psychics who did this trick admitted it was a trick but never revealed the secret and a similar system could be used. so you would need a control who would attack without intent and a receive the controlled attack and it gets complicated

[mmacconn069]

@stevensartifacts The whole point to this is to use your other senses besides sight to detect danger, hearing, airflow, smell, etc. Plugging your ears would defeat the purpose of the test. It's to be able to see without your eyes, not without all of your other senses. No one is expected to be psychic. People misinterpret the purpose of this test.

[stevensartifacts]

@mmacconn069 ah well that makes a lot more sense. in that case, i think they need to up the possible wait time to get more accurate results.

[mmacconn069]

@stevensartifacts They vary the time actually. It's almost never the same between 2 test takers. I have seen Hatsumi do a batch of these tests and sometimes he hits fast, other times he waits a long time. That way you never know when it's coming.

watch?v=QLvOZ1O96Jo gives you a better idea of the test over a variety of candidates.

[fourplusseven]

@mmacconn069 That's not what Glenn Morris says. At all.

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven What people have to say and what actually is are 2 different things. If you actually watch the videos of the tests, you will invariably notice there is extra movement on the part of the test giver (and probably and intake of breath as this happens too). This causes the rustling of their gi, the extra upswing of the sword a couple of inches makes a sound and the inhalation of breath does too. These all also disturb the clam air around the tester/testee.

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven It is these things that the testee will be attempting to sense. These are indicators of intent to strike.

A Shinobi who is attempting to maintain the mystique of the Ninja might tell you you need to be psychic or that it's ninja magic. In reality, it's a finely honed skill of the mind and senses not magic or psychic powers

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven On a final note, I don't know this Soke Glenn Morris. He's not Bujinkan as the Bujinkan Soke Maasaki Hatsumi is still alive and has not passed on Soke-ship to anyone yet that I am aware of.

[fourplusseven]

@mmacconn069 You can be a soke without being a soke of bujinkan. Look him up on martial arts planet or search google books for his first, "Path Notes of an American Ninja Master". The intro is by Hatsumi. Read it and think carefully to what extent 'magic powers' are part of ninjutsu. It has stuff in that you can try which could send your thoughts in another direction... but that's no skin off my nose either way. We know what we know.

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven It's the perpetuation of Shinobi "mystique". It's not magic. Never has been. It was always about misleading, subterfuge and misdirection. If the people of 500 years ago thought you could do magic, they were fearful of you even before you took action. Those seeds of fear and uncertainty would make them waver in a confrontation with you.

[fourplusseven]

@mmacconn069 Wow! You read Glenn's book that quickly? Very impressive!

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven No, but I've read all of Hatsumi's books and Hayes books and a large number of other authors on the subject's books and I've been involved in martial arts including shinobijutsu since 1983.

[fourplusseven]

@mmacconn069 Look you have my recommend. Glenn worked with both Hayes and and Hatsumi. By his death I think he was 10th dan. Do yourself a favour, look up the book on Google Books, or Amazon, even just to read the reviews. Or not -- it's up to you. If you prefer not to, you won't know what's in the book. I've met plenty who "magically" they know the contents of books without reading 'em, and surely it must save time in a busy life.

We seem to be done here.

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven Like I said, it's not magic, it's common sense. You've already espoused your mentor, made your claims based on his works and so-forth. That's how I know what is going to be in his books. It's not magic, I simply observed your statements and claims. As You seem to be intelligent and have clear grasp of the English language I have to expect your reiterations from the book(s) to be reasonably accurate.

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven If your "Soke" worked with both Hayes and Hatsumi then he knows he's just perpetuating the mystique. It's ok if he and you want to do that. 500 years ago it was necessary, not so much now however. If only psychics could be ninjas then you'd have Madame Cleo, John Edward and Dione Warwick as training partners.

[fourplusseven]

@mmacconn069 Look pal, I didn't say what was in the book. That's your surmise; it's incorrect, like everything else you're saying, but some people won't be told. And all you'd have to do is read a couple of pages to know what I meant! Sorry I can't reply further -- have a nice life.

[mmacconn069]

@fourplusseven Since there is no actual attempt to kill your opponent and the weapons they use for this test are not dangerous there is no genuine sakki "bloodthirst" so even if it were possible to psychically feel that you couldn't as it's not there. So you are sensing imminent attack by sensing subtle changes in your environment.

[markaval]

@stevensartifacts Japanese story about boy who went to Sword Master to learn sword. Got accepted but sent to kitchen. Every so often someone would sneak up and smack him on back with stick and disappear. At first boy thought other students were picking on him. After six months of getting hit he was fed up, and still hadn't trained yet. Was cleaning in kitchen when he sensed someone was behind him. He grabbed tray and blocked hit. It was the master - he told boy to report to dojo the next day..

[markaval]

@stevensartifacts this is not supernatural ability or magic - it can be learned. Who cares HOW it works, as long as it works! Takes a lot of perseverance and practice - and a lot of whacks when you're not expecting them! If this guy is cheating (and it is possible he is) then he's only cheating himself. I've not seen this before but I've seen Japanese guys do this against knives and avoid being stabbed in back. The guy out of 'Kick Ass Moves' on TV studied this and vouched for authenticity.

[stevensartifacts]

@markaval i understand now that it's not necessarily a test of supernatural ability. i took issue with the idea that it was some sort of telepathy or something.

[markaval]

@stevensartifacts I'd take issue with that too! There is nothing supernatural about this stuff. I do Yoshinkan Aikido and I get hacked off with people who think it's 'magic' or that it is just fake and people fall over. It's about learning to understand and feel simple biomechanics (although manipulating the joints and balance well enough to completely control without force is bloody hard!). This ninjitsu test is similarly difficult but anyone can do it given time and right practice.

[SamsoniteF]

how far can you sense someone's sakki?

[shinobiryukenden]

Like anything in life, it depends on the person and the situation. I really do not know the answer for myself yet. It is something to discover about one's self through this journey.

[Luhz]

This looks like it was very well done.

It's ridiculous seeing some of the people take the test and just randomly trying to escape.

[shinobiryukenden]

As I had said before, it doesnt matter how you pass, as long as you get out of the way. That could mean that if a person sneezes, passes out, has a seizure at the right moment and dodges the blow, then it was meant to be. This is like life, sometimes just by dumb luck a person is saved by a hair's breadth. So whether by skill or luck it is desitiny. Even skilled people have off days.

[Proton1]

Here's something to consider. Did you escape because you were good or the swordsman was not so good?

I study iaido, and I can tell you that the swordsman created a huge opening when he wound up before bringing the sword down. He'd be skewered easily if he were in a kendo match.

Against an experienced swordsman you probably wouldn't have been so lucky.

[shinobiryukenden]

It does not matter either way. As it was said that it doesnt matter how you pass, as long as you get out of the way. That could mean that if a person sneezes at the right moment and dodges the blow, then it was meant to be. Yes some swordsmen cut better then others, but in a real fight that is true as well, you have the some people more experienced then others. Has your iaido teacher done the sakki jutsu with you yet?

[shinobiryukenden]

The sakki test really is meant to be able to emit the ki and receive the ki, and so there doesn not really need to be a sword to cut down with. One day Hatsumi Sensei made a Shihan use a bo instead of the sword, because the object does not matter. Its about the feeling.

[69xino]

This is the sakki test.

[404masterblaster]

I'm curious as to if they give you some small audio cue as to when they are about to strike. A ruffle in their gi, or when they step backwards.

[shinobiryukenden]

In my experience I did not get any cues but a feeling. The person giving test is supposed to make sure he is well grounded and minimize noise. I was told if you heard it then probably be too late to escape. But I guess in some cases it happens. Actually I was kinda hoping there could be an audio cue to make it easier, and then I saw a bunch of people getting whacked! in the head, cause they were trying to listen for something instead of feeling for it.

[404masterblaster]

Yea but you never see video of people getting wacked. I heard at one time they tested using a real weapon but for reasons pretty obvious they stopped. :) I'm not doubting just curious.

[shinobiryukenden]

Actually that is not true, you can see people getting whacked on some of the older DVDs. I saw a few of the older DVDs before I went to Japan, and only made me more nervous about being forever recorded getting hit on the head. Luckily I passed the first attempt. Maybe they stopped recording the failed attempts. But you see people getting hit all the time when in Japan, because of nervousness, not being ready, or they are trying to listen for it. Some people get lucky, and it gets credit.

[shinobiryukenden]

About the real weapons, I am not sure. I heard they used real weapons a long time ago, but not when so many foreigners started to come and train. Yes, for obvious reasons.

[404masterblaster]

As soon as I typed I never seen a failure I found one. Thanks for you time. I been looking into the art but as close as I can get is aikido in this area.

[fourplusseven]

Glenn Morris used to say they should bring back the live sword. You'd soon see who was serious about ninjutsu hahaha.

[omega2009ful]

but you did nice ukemi anyway.

[shinobiryukenden]

Thanks!

[omega2009ful]

bad cut

[shinobiryukenden]

Yeah, he completely missed me, he should have cut faster. LoL =D

[brasshandmartialarts]

Osu!...Very Good.

[shinobiryukenden]

Thanks!

[darkarm3rocks]

well he said it was around 5k im thinking its more about 3.5k but hes going to stop in australia to vist some of his folks. Yes it is from the USA but he is already left Ausie and hes in Japan now. But to be honest i was surprised he picked me to swing because im not that all fast and im only a brown belt and there is a black belt in my class to. Boy i sure hope he passes!

[shinobiryukenden]

A brown belt in a Bujinkan school? There is no such rank, unless you are under the age of 13-15 in a kids class.

[darkarm3rocks]

exactly im 14 years old that its why

[darkarm3rocks]

whats funny about this is my sensei has to take his godan test in a few weeks and for some reason if he fails its about $5,000 dollars down the drain so best of luck sensei ^ - ^

[shinobiryukenden]

Down the drain? Really? What about the experience of training and being in Japan. I think pass or fail your Sensei will have a great experience, and will have something that will last a lifetime. I do wish him the best and hope he passes. But either way, it does not really matter. The point of going there for Godan test is not to never go back, but an encouragement to keep going back, pass or fail.

[darkarm3rocks]

Yes i do agree with what your saying but i was just saying thats for the plane tickets. But im not puting down the Godan test im just saying that it would be painful if he failed but he's been making me swing at him a few times. By the way he goes in 2 days.

[shinobiryukenden]

From where is he travelling that he is paying $5k? From the US its normally less then a $1000, and cheap right now. Did he not have a Bujinkan Shihan to help him with taking the test? I am surprised he had his student take a swing at him. Anyways, I hope he does pass, and enjoys the trip.

[shinobiryukenden]

Thanks!

[fourplusseven]

Very good pass, congratulations.

[shinobiryukenden]

Arigatou!

[nicvaco]

I have read that the sakki is the energy from the intent to cause harm, that that is what you must sense. Is this true, or would you get the same sense if, say, someone was dancing around and bumped into you? To take the question further, are you guys trained to blind-sense projectiles, maybe even falling random objects, like a paint can from a roof? Just curious. I wholly believe in the mind's ability to sense beyond normal conditioning, and find this kind of thing fascinating. Keep it up.

[shinobiryukenden]

Yes, the one giving the test must emit a feeling, and the one sitting for the test must feel it. So there is a two way relationship. It is not as simple as someone just bumping into you, or cutting down on you without an intention. It is possible to sense danger from unknown sources as your examples, as I have heard stories of people in the military and police sensing danger and being able to get out just in time. So its is a possibility with continued training. Thank you for your comments.

[AllmightyJumpu]

殺気を感じたのですね！すばらしい！

[shinobiryukenden]

ありがとうございました

[brazil5784]

also if hatsumi's style is as good as he claims why don't you all go off and make millions in k-1?

[shinobiryukenden]

K-1 is a sports martial arts, while Bujinkan is a combat martial art. It would not make sense or work in an environment with rules and regulations.

[blueman807]

If u mean it would not work as in small chance of winning i agree but how do u define a sports martial art? It is still combat even if there are rules, soke Masaaki uses the term sports MArt in order to make his style look superior but talk is easy as for proof where is it?

[shinobiryukenden]

In my opinion, the proof is in the military and police coming back every year to train with Hatsumi Sensei. Many times heard stories from active military personell that either served in Iraq, or Afghanistan how there training came in handy. We have many police officers in our dojo that have used this training on the job. My teacher used to be in the military, and a corrections officer, and had the experience of using his training to real world situations. For me this is proof enough to train.

[brazil5784]

If a go-dan had been in the WTC would he/she been able to detect the energy/bad vibes and thus get out in time? As there is probably no record of this I'm asking your belief...For the result of this test to be more valid he should strike at least twice, as for org.structure I'm not sure what u mean; you mean hierarchy could you explain this requirement in more depth?

[brazil5784]

how come it is only "high ranked" ppl wh o conduct the test, real life is different...I have serious doubts on the scientific validity of this "test"

[shinobiryukenden]

There are many things in Martial Arts, no matter what style or origin, that have no scientific explanations. The high ranks is not necessary to be able to emit a saaki feeling, but it is only required for purposes of organizational structure. Also if the high rank person really wanted to hit you he would mask his intention. The purpose of this test is about an energy exchange between the two people. But as you said there is no scientific vaidity to this feeling.

[Puma688]

sixth sense?

[shinobiryukenden]

Maybe a 9th sense ;-)

[r8Utbe]

What was it that clued you in to move in time? Did you hear something? feell something?

[shinobiryukenden]

It was definitely a feeling, but very difficult to explain. I can tell you it was not the sound, if you wait to hear it then you would be hit, unless you can move faster then Mach speed.

[brenndon1]

that was cool. you moved so fast it seemed like you moved seconds before he began the strike.

[BuddhaViolations]

Another high ranking dan member of the Bujinkan. Dime a dozen.

[blueman807]

At the start he makes a sound with the wooden pole then both of them count from there- simple anyone could pass this staged test

[shinobiryukenden]

Haha, funny. Well I can attest to this test since it is me. I wish it were like that, it would have been less stressful.

[darkeney]

これはすごい！(THIS IS amazing!)

[shinobiryukenden]

ありがとうございます

[BujinkanTurkiye]

Very smooth pass Amir, congratulations.

[shinobiryukenden]

Thanks!

[alfista145]

Great test! Congratulations to the new Shidoshi!

[magikk]

That's awesome!

[efsq]

congratulations

and that's juan manuel serrano!

[gekiryudojo]

A very good pass

[Doggieman1111]

that was really good

[BujinkanMartialArts]

Congratulations Amir! Truly a cool thing!