Keith Olbermann - Daniel Levin - Waterboarding discussion 1

[werderdiablo]

because az101010 gets personal anyway:

az101010 is gay 10year old male whore in bangkok offering his body to 70year old conservatives.

just want to mention it

[az101010]

OMG- i just flipped into a liberal state of mind thinking about the statement "there will always be wars and rumors of wars".. OMG- NO NO NO NO.. I CAN'T TAKE IT- IT CAN'T BE.. we must stop this.. we must stop them.. we must stop it.. i will build a giant monkey wrench and stop the spinning of the world if it don't stop.. get that straight jacket away from me- i'm a liberal- i'm not crazy- michael savage is crazy..

[dougzilla]

dear mr/ms az101010.

a/ I am not a liberal.

b/ This is not a game.

c/ Bye bye

[az101010]

dougzilla- just for the fun of it could you write down exactly what your purpose is with this and what you would like to accomplish?

[az101010]

also interesting is that this waterboarding apparently has not been seen for five years and only three known reports of it in this war without information on whether anyone almost drowned or what anyones intentions were..

i also don't see how making an issue of this is hurting anything.. but i doubt it will make future wars friendlier..

[az101010]

dougzilla- they have always made the enemy fear for their life in a war when needed.. why should i fight this kind of thing like so many liberals do and mess up my life over it?

sure i could go into the streets and shout "no more wars no more wars"- but i would be making a fool of myself and i might  get a rubber bullet in my ass..

it's interesting how this waterboarding issue has nothing to do with anyone other than liberals who are just chasing themselves around in circles about it..

[az101010]

liberals have a hard time accepting the darker side of reality.. and if they let that get out of control they start having "ill-will" towards humans- especially leaders..

liberals don't get mean about it like others tend to get with their stuff- and that's why i like liberals- even though they are a huge burden on america..

i have helped a few liberals pull out of it and get their life back- but it's not easy..

[dougzilla]

The question of (waterboarding/torture) has to do with morality, human rights and the law.

If you perceive this purely liberal/conservative issue. Then I feel sorry for you for having such tunnel vision.

[az101010]

waterboarding is a really terrible thing to do to another person.. but things are different in war.. what waterboarding does is cause someone to fear for their life- (if they don't know how to deal with it).. i don't think there has ever been a war in all of history where they didn't try to scare information out of the enemy.. and in a war there is just no such thing as making the enemy comfortable when they are holding information that can save your life.. it's reality.. what is there to say?

[werderdiablo]

i want to remember you:

tokio 1946. some japanese militarys were sent for 15years to prison. reason: they waterboarded american soldiers.

now americans do it. hippocrates!

[az101010]

dougzilla- do you realize you are hiding or ignoring the fact the more people don't think it's torture and that it is legal..

you are operating in a world of your own..

i don't think you are mentally ill.. i do think your reasoning is impaired because of your hate..

[dougzilla]

hahahaha

you want to water board and I am the one that hates?

[az101010]

waterboarding frightens people- it doesn't hurt them..

when someone has just killed a lot of people and they have a bomb set to kill more- you need to find out from them where the bomb is.. stupid liberals want to treat them with respect- and a sane person would frighten the hell out of them until they told where the bomb was..

being overtaken by the liberal mentality is the worst thing that can happen to anyone..

[dougzilla]

You watch too much TV.

This is the real world dude, not a TV series.

Try thinking through . Do you like your government having the power to torture?

[az101010]

give me an example of where waterboarding has done more harm than good in war time..

TV is irrelevant.. that is how liberals are- they don't know what is relevant and they can't speak to anything directly.. all they know how to do is rant..

like your government?

real world?

TV series?

no wonder there is a best selling book about liberals and their mental disorder..

[dougzilla]

Hahaha you advocate the use of a form of torture say that people who are against it are mentally ill. That is a good one.

[tom500k]

Levin showed great integrity in subjecting himself to waterboarding to determine lst hand if waterboarding is torture.

I hope he is lecturing and writing night and day to try end the counterproductive policies of the US gov. which endangers all-- including us!

[stivo1975]

I encourage water boarding and 100 years ago these people would have been hung! The left are turning our kids into pussys. Keith - SHAME ON YOU! This guy is bad for America and is Anti-American.

[dougzilla]

Wow!

You are a total cretin.

[stivo1975]

You probably are a fag or a lezbo. How about that asshole!

[dougzilla]

bye bye knuckledragger

[GreenTolene]

You are right about left turning are kids into pussys but then you got mtv and fox turning them gay and violent

[ytdsmom]

You STILL refuse to answer my question about your child being kidnapped.

[dougzilla]

What part of "I do not support torture in any form" didn't you get?

[ytdsmom]

Wow....what an answer. Either 1) you're lying or 2) you're not much of a father

Just let your CHILD be tortured and ultimately killed so you don't offend the perpetrator by tossing a little water in his face. You're protecting the so-called rights of the perpetrator; what about the rights of your child to have their father protect their life? Amazing...

[dougzilla]

You apologize for this governments illegal and inhumane activities then you question my honesty and value as a parent. With this kind of logic and utter disregard for constitutional and international law , I am guessing you are a Republican and you lean toward Rudy.

You have no moral standing here whatsoever.

[ytdsmom]

You want to question MY logic?? You state I have an utter disregard for const/int'l law. You have an utter disregard (quite sickening in fact), to your responsibility to your own child. Faith, Family, Country is what I live by....obviously you don't. Republican - Yes, Rudy - No

[dougzilla]

I take full responsibility for my family and also for the world that my children grow up in.

I find it really creepy (and funny) that fascist enablers like yourself decry my morality values. You have no logic by the way, only knee jerk faith in you leaders. Funnily enough, Faith, Family, Country are also values that I hold dear. This is why I find your viewpoint repugnant.

[ytdsmom]

Perhaps then that you should put more focus on the "Faith" part, seeing how you also place that at #1. My faith tells me that God gave me common-sense. It also tells me to not lie. I believe (and hope actually), that if you were REALLY in that hypothetical situation w/your own child, you wouldn't actually say, "No, don't throw a little water in his face for 35 seconds, even though it won't kill him." "His rights are more important than finding my child he's about to rape & mutilate."

[dougzilla]

You seem to have a fixation about rape and mutilation.

You should rethink your god given common sense. You seem to have the impression that crappy logic is somehow divinely inspired, this puts you on the same level as jihadi terrorists.

I have christian values and you know what, torture in not one of them. Would Jesus condone torture?

[dougzilla]

Also, Nazis also proclaimed to have a lot of faith in family, country and their leaders. Somehow they let this get in the way of their sense of humanity.

[ytdsmom]

Fixated? I mentioned it once.

You compare me to the jihadi terrorists...how smart. They are out to kill innocent people & I'm for 'protecting' the innocent. You're distorted in your thinking. Before you go to sleep tonight, close your eyes, and really think about a situation that could impact your personal life. I'm seriously done conversing with you...but I will try & remember to pray for you tonight.

[dougzilla]

Why don't you pray for yourself? My conscience is clear. I do not advocate for illegal state use of torture.

If you somehow think that the Christian faith condones this sort of thing then you are really twisted.

If you want to protect the innocent, then you do not condone torture. It does more damage to the torturer than the victim. It corrupts.

[bugnvdub]

People have volunteered to be able to give a first hand account of the experience of the TORTURE that water boarding is. But I'm sure you'd rather believe someone who knows what it is, instead of knows what it feels like.

[MelesioUlibari]

If waterboarding is torture, why do so many people volunteer for it? Would Daniel Lavin, or anyone else volunteer for the torture used by our enemies (slicing off of body parts, etc.)?

[dougzilla]

ROFL

Oh yes, it is hugely popular. Big lineups for waterboarding sessions all over.

[dougzilla]

The only reason you think that it is OK is because we do it and not the other guys. Our "rightness of purpose" makes waterboaring all right; it can't be torture because only the bad guys use torture.

By the way in 1901 an American major was sentenced to 10 years of hard labor for waterboarding an insurgent in the Philippines during the Spanish American war.

[ytdsmom]

You have absolutely no sense of TRUE empathy. I'm not sure if you're a parent or not, but if someone kidnapped your child & had information on their whereabouts, would you actually care if they used waterboarding on the perpetrator to save your child???

[dougzilla]

If you feel this way why don't you lobby your Senator to allow torture on all incarcerated suspects not just foreign ones. It seems to me that our local creeps are much more likely to harm your child than Al Queda types.

I am a parent by the way and your justification for torture is really scary.

[dougzilla]

How can you question my sense of empathy when you advocate for the use of torture?

You don't see a disconnect here?

[ytdsmom]

dougzilla: I'm unable to have empathy for waterboarding a terrorist. Empathy requires to emotionally put yourself in that persons shoes.

[dougzilla]

"In my work with the defendants (at the Nuremberg Trails 1945-1949) I was searching for the nature of evil and I now think I have come close to defining it. A lack of empathy. It's the one characteristic that connects all the defendants, a genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow men. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy."

Quotation: Captain G. M. Gilbert, the Army psychologist assigned to watching the defendants at the Nuremberg trials.

[ytdsmom]

dougzilla: Nuremberg Trials indicated shooting, starvation, hanging, pulling out finger nails, etc. Waterboarding is VERY different.

[dougzilla]

It is the same as it considered torture. It is illegal under US and international law. We have prosecuted others for this.

[ytdsmom]

Would you rather have water in your face or shot between the eyes? If I am withholding information that would save thousands of lives, I'd deserve every drop of water. People DO NOT die from this....

[dougzilla]

So, in your world someone who is being held as a suspected terrorist is a non-person.

[ytdsmom]

No, the suspected terrorist is a person...but a potential threat. There are more police officers using tasers on ppl who are not even threatening to thousands of people. Why don't you speak up about that? And...you never answered: If your child was kidnapped, & a person knew your child's whereabouts..simple interrogation has failed..would u be against waterboarding then?

[dougzilla]

This is a spurious argument and you know it.

I do not support torture in any form. In Vancouver where I live a Polish visitor was tasered unnecessarily by the police and died as a result. Believe me I am against that as well. The discussion at hand is waterboarding/torture by the US government.

[ytdsmom]

dougzilla: I would agree with waterboarding for anyone, domestic or foreign, withholding information where there is an IMPENDING threat....and in this case, an impending threat to potentially thousands. So, if, God forbid, someone had your child & knew their whereabouts, what would you suggest if simple interrogation fails??

[MelesioUlibari]

Whatever the number(s) it's bigger than the line of volunteers to have their toes or dick chopped off. The code pink people put on a protest demo of waterboarding and several people volunteered for the demo.

[dougzilla]

Volunteer for it. Hey its not torture. Can't cause too much stress. Go for it.

Daniel Levin working for the Justice Department did and declared it to be a form of torture; he was subsequently fired.

Are you an American? If so your nation tortures. This is what I think, most legal opinion and the rest of the world thinks this as well.

[dougzilla]

And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave

O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave

In the interest of accuracy, lets change this to:

And the star-spangled banner, in triumph doth wave

O'er the land of the (not really) free and the home of the torturer.

You like this? Then on with the waterboarding

[MelesioUlibari]

Good point. Perhaps since this country is not free anymore and we torture, you should beware of Cahaney and Bush's secret police. You may be a candidate for waterboarding. They can trace your messages thru the NSA, CIA, FBI, and BMF. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[dougzilla]

Sorry dude, not funny and way off base.

[greatbroad]

The dems just called me for money. I told them I have become disgusted with the democratic party and have cut them off.

[dougzilla]

I think the dems are the "great appeasers" - not because they appease "terrorists" (ahem) but because they appease the goddamned Bush gang as they take this country down the road to fascism.

[greatbroad]

Smedley Butler blew the whistle on them in 1934, then got himself kicked out of the marines!

They went over the Germany and built up Hitler. Senator Prescott Bush made the family fortune laundering Nazi money and his Union Bank was finally shut down in 1951.

George H.W. Bush was high in the CIA when JFK was murdered.

Now GHWBush is in charge of parceling out contracts in the M.E.

I would say the dems are in on the scam. Esp since nobody is talking about the 2005 NAU agreement!

[dougzilla]

This whole discussion is completely surreal; future historians will look back on this in wonder. They will be marking this as one of the big milestones in the "so how and when did America turn into a fascist state?" discussion.