Dealey Plaza - At the fence - J. Darnell

[kenny2894spd]

check for DNA on the chicken bones and the dr pepper bottle found at the snipers nest that might help shed some lite, a little is better than none even now they would try to distroy this possible evidense im sure im not the only one who thought of this i will just keep putting it out there i hope others will do this to maybe somebody that can do something will do something to help heal this open sore on our nation

[piscesman54]

The undisputable fact is that when hit by the last shot, Kennedy's body lurches back and his brains were splaterred all of the trunk of the limo and the motorcycle cop to the back on the left was stained with blood. That simply could not have happend if the shot didn't come from the front-right. This is plain common sense. Yet, 1 out of every 4 Americans refuse to believe because they are in denial and scared shitless in view of the implications of government involvement.

[squirevet]

The primary reason the truth behind the assassination will never come to light is that even in the year 2011, unlocking the mystery of Dallas would destroy the United States. Every President after Kennedy would be illegitimate, especially LBJ, Nixon, and the first Bush, who would probably suffer the death penalty.

[MoJoSB]

It's getting close to 50 years since that day in Dallas and nothing has really been done about this. It's a good lesson for someone who follows the 9/11 fiasco. It's the same thing with JFK and 9/11.

I believe that is why we ended up with 9/11 happening because those behind 9/11 saw nothing was done about the JFK assassination and thought, "If that could be covered up, we can get away with ANYTHING." -and they are getting away with it right now-

"A government for the people? My Ass!"

[jimjam69]

The Mosaad tried to do that shot and no success.

[OneVoiceMore]

I'm confused as to why people STILL think Oswald acted alone, much less fired a shot. The -official- position is that JFK was 'probably killed as the result of a conspiracy'. That's after two official investigations, and dozens if not hundreds of witnesses. Oh yeah, and the forensic evidence. "Best Evidence" by David S. Lifton. Huge book, worth a read.

[OneVoiceMore]

@barmtrail Sorry, but you're no researcher. A flat trajectory is preferable. Oswald was NOT a good shot, possibly because he was busy being trained in Russian while in the Marines.

The story wasn't started 'to confuse people'. The story confused the FBI, since none of their sharpshooters could duplicate Oswald's performance with the same OFF-SIGHTED rifle in the same amount of time.

Read up. HSCA determined in 1979...FOUR SHOTS. RECORDED on a police dictabelt. Time to wake up.

[tromboista]

@OneVoiceMore His shooting score book from the Armed forces came out in the 90s. Perfect scores

[OneVoiceMore]

@tromboista His actual field performance shooting at General Edwin Walker at a CLOSER range was a perfect score, too. 100% miss.

And you're overstating his overall shooting record, but I think you know that.

[larrywheels]

ya had to know how things went down in texas during those times. ya ever heard about da fix? lbj was a slick mudda fucka man- he had done alot of shit- with his boys- ya know bobby baker and billie sol - dey both went to the pen, but lbj had friends - he knew how to play the game man, get em on the cuff- get the boys honey potted up- old edgar in the bag for his texas boys. ya had to know texas man!

[joiganja]

shooting going away from the building when he could have shot when the car was approaching doesnt make sense,so how can people say he was a capable marksman.

[vengencefrom1979]

@joiganja and thru a tree no less

[NEABALDO]

This looks like the guy Ed Hoffman describes seeing behind the fence.

[barmtrail]

@TBlake...U might want to seek medical help for the current condition u suffer from. A invisibility suite in 1963? We were not that far advanced yet.

Just stick to the facts. Instead of making those turns to position jfk in front of the book building, he could have just been driven down the road that was more direct and straight. He was driven down the killing zone for a reason. Question is; Who is responsible?

[barmtrail]

The shot made from an elevated position could be made by a kansas farm boy with a 22. It was what? 100 yards or so. A former marine can make that shot easily. Oswald was a shot,his score book proves it. The car was not traveling fast at all, and the driver slowed down for the agent to grab the car. The final shot was easy. No shooter would shoot from, "The grassy knoll". That story was started just to confuse everyone. A shooter does not shoot from an exposed area. He needs concealment. Exit....

[JahRage]

Why would they start a grassy knoll rumor to confuse people? If you believe the official story it is open and shut right? Who does this confusion serve? The House Select Committee on Assassinations said there were 4 shots (as many witenesses reported more then three) and that one shot come from the knoll.

[TBlake34]

Most shooters need concealment, but the reall assassin was wearing a CIA invisibility cloke they stole from Hogwart's.

[OneVoiceMore]

@TBlake34 Either concealment, or an unassailable alibi, like a Secret Service badge. Three witnesses were shown such badges, although the SS denies they had ANY men on the ground in DP.

The greatest lie the devil ever pulled off was convincing people he doesn't exist.

[icerope1]

@barmtrail Actually no he wasn't. I was in the Army and he barely qualified with his rifle and over the next couple of yrs in the service he didn't get any better.

Maybe you should spend some time reading the WC report and read wht his buddies who served with him in the marines said about him. He had wht you call "maggies drawers" meaning he missed the target completely consistently.

Now I am not saying he had nothing to do with it, he was involved, but not the only one.

[barmtrail]

Ice...Oswalds dope book from the marine corp range shower he was a good enough shot to qualify. 'Maggies drawers my ass. Oliver stone movie quotes dont make any points. Stick to reality not hollywood. It has proven you can re-cycle 3 rounds in the rifle oswald used and aim to target and fire. He missed his head shot twice!!! the 3rd shot hit the head because the driver was almost stopped.

How could a shooter just vanish from the grassy knoll? Let alone a rifle. Where did the rifle go?

[icerope1]

No sir, I am not quoting Oliver Stone, I am quoting someone who testified in front of the WC and several FBI agents to the "Maggies Drawers" reference.

The testimony of Nelson Delgado was taken on April 16, 1964, at the U.S. Courthouse, Foley Square, New York, N.Y., by Mr. Wesley J. Liebeler, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

[icerope1]

Mr. DELGADO - Right; I was in the same line. By that I mean we were on line together, the same time, but not firing at the same position, but at the same time, and I remember seeing his. It was a pretty big joke, because he got a lot of "Maggie's drawers," you know, a lot of misses, but he didn't give a darn.

Mr. LIEBELER - Missed the target completely?

Mr. DELGADO - He just qualified, that's it. He wasn't as enthusiastic as the rest of us. We all loved--liked, you know, going to the range

[OneVoiceMore]

@barmtrail Sorry, but you're no researcher. A flat trajectory is preferable. Oswald was NOT a good shot, possibly because he was busy being trained in Russian while in the Marines.

The story wasn't started 'to confuse people'. The story confused the FBI, since none of their sharpshooters could duplicate Oswald's performance with the same OFF-SIGHTED rifle in the same amount of time.

Read up. HSCA determined in 1979...FOUR SHOTS. RECORDED on a police dictabelt. Time to wake up.

[Midnightrambler3760]

To his someone in a moving vehicle 3 times in a few seconds from a 6th story would be a challenge for the best sniper.

Oswald was just not that good of a shot.

I'd have a better chance of pissing in a cheerioh from 50 yards.

[len120453]

@Midnightrambler3760 I am an expert marksman and I really doubt I could make those shots on my best day.

[ChristianHolloway7]

@Midnightrambler3760 Not true. Oswald was a tidy shot. Ive seen some score cards from a range he did. He for sure knew of the plot to kill JFK as he told his buddy prior to the incident. I doubt Oswald fired a gun but he could have done.

[Midnightrambler3760]

@ChristianHolloway7 Oswals missed a 30 yard shot at an easy target a few months previous.

Anyway, this argument is so 2009. I have moved on :-)

[ChristianHolloway7]

@Midnightrambler3760 2009? lol. ur new then so what do you know. Oswald was a tidy shot. Not saying he took the head shot tho. That clearly came from the front somewhere.

[redtorso]

In his classic book "6 seconds in Dallas" Josiah THOMPSON gave a complete listing of ALL individuals and their positions present in Dealey Plaza that tragic day . However No mention of this cop and the guy with the hat ( a Dallas detective ?)their behaviour is very weird too : Why the guy with the hat is LEAVING the scene as meanwhile many people 're running towards the fence ? Why the cop asks people to keep moving in this area ?For which reason? 8 extra seconds of total mystery ...

[goldengirl67]

Redtorso: I thought the same thing - why is he leaving and that overcoat over his arm could be concealing something as well. Why isn't he talking to the cop to tell him what he had just witnessed?

[MJG956]

I did not see a gun on the cop's belt,that was ushering people away from the fence. Did anyone check the identity of that cop to make sure he was an actual cop?What happened to his gun? Did the gun get tossed some where?What is in the young girl's right hand?She gets out of the camera's lense or shot and so you cannot see if she has passed the object to the man in the over coat over his arm?

[quasiphatpaul]

You cab clearly see his gun in the first frame.

[MJG956]

Look at the gent near the girl, that is wearing a light colored hat that does not match his suit coat or the tench coat on his arm, in color. If it was cold out that day, why was not that gentleman wearing his over coat? Could he possibly have a gun in the jacket over his arm and is hiding the weapon?

[carlosbonds2513]

stop the video at 0:2 second behind the fence there is someone placing out of sight.

[carlosbonds2513]

stop the video at 0:3 seconds the man leaving the grassy knoll has something below his jacket! it really looks suspicious to me

[BobLillo]

I have read that a police officer was waving away the many persons who rushed the "grassy knoll" area. This video clearly reveals this to be the case. There is a parking lot behind that fence - why would this person in a police uniform be waving people away? Motives. They are revealed by our actions.

[daughterrevolution]

What a different world 1963 was! In all these Dealey Plaza vintage films there's not a single woman wearing pants! Only dresses and skirts. When was the last time you ever saw a random group of women in a public setting and none were wearing slacks?

[manoman0]

well, feminists have turned them successfully into placebo-males. I miss skirts very much. Just makes a woman "more woman".

[bestay]

can you two pls stop arguing?? Thanks!

wow the person below me is pretty dumb GS

[Escargency2008]

J.Darnell,was it that Police that stood beside the Red Dodge that Walther Evert was lying on....where smoke came from the Parking lot....????

[TrueNovice]

"For about 5-1/2 min, the CH-1 broadcast was dominated by the sound of the motorcycle's motor. Unable to communicate effectively, police officers began to switchover to CH-2. At 12:33 the CH-1 dispatcher (mistakenly) broadcast, "There's a motorcycle officer up on Stemmon's with his mike stuck open. Could you send someone up there to tell him to shut it off!" If you actually listen to the tape, as I did many years ago, it's very evident that this was big problem.

[TrueNovice]

The Cops can be heard whistling into their microphones, saying "do you read me." All this, while they should have been doing their normal police work or assisting in JFK protection, they were otherwise preoccupied. They had to cut into the Secret Service channel 2, to be heard, which added to the confiusion, since prior to that time it had been reserved for the SS communication. That was the "cross talk" that supposedly featured the gun shots, that was mentioned in all the science reports.

[TrueNovice]

Up until the time of the assassination, most of the broadcasts on channel 1 consisted of Police Chief Jesse Curry's monotonous announcements of the location of the motorcade as it wound through the streets of Dallas. There are also oral time stamps from the dispatcher. However, right before the first shot and for a few more minutes after the assassination you hear the loud hum of a motorcycle.

[TrueNovice]

The roar of the motorcycle makes it virtually impossible to hear anything on that channel, And then without explanation, the jamming stops.

[TrueNovice]

Jammed" means, to me, it might not done deliberately. I find it very suspicious. One thing we should be able to agree on is,it had nothing to do with Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone. So, mistakenly focused on Oswald as the lone assassin, there was no review of this event for 15 years, and ven then it was cursory.

[BigPapaShitz]

There was no frequency mishap; the DPD transmissions from the entire period of the start of the motorcade to the time oswald was caught are in the national archives, novice. niiice try though. rediculous.

[BigPapaShitz]

IF it was jammed, which it was not (there is recording of transmissions the entire assassination sequence -- try reading something) -- IF there was a frequency malfunction, what makes you think SOMEONE did it? it couldn't have been a 1963 era technological malfunction? Noooo, of course not. It had to be an evil influence, big brother, the cia, fbi, DPD, mafia, god Himself.

[TrueNovice]

All your name calling, and psycobable gets rather tiresome to me and probably the few who actually read your comments. Will try again, if you or Bugliosi or anyone else know where Oswald bought the ammunition and can document it, citing the source, it would be a major breakthrough in the case. So, cite that one source out of your vast knowledge of the documents. Show me I am wrong on it.

[BigPapaShitz]

Impede the entire system, rather. If you actually READ the original documentation, rather than reading it filtered through a conspiracy book, which deletes & omits facts, you'd know that the jammed mike was jammed up to 90 seconds AFTER KENNEDY'S DEATH! Curry's freaked out proclamation to beat it to Parkland happened 5 seconds after Z313. Do the math. Ergo: Your little "Evil Peeps tampered with the network" theory is insanely and laughably wrong. Plus, again, one jammed mike does NOT affect all.

[TrueNovice]

The main antennae picked up and recorded the police radio conversation throughout Dallas depending on their distance from base. But the jammed microphone interfered with communications within the police stationed in the motorcade where it was most critical to the protection of the President.

[TrueNovice]

Again, the microphone radio jamming, may have been accidental, Officer McCain was disciplined for it once prior to this for doing the same thing. He disputed that he was the cop who jammed the microphone till the day he died.

[BigPapaShitz]

Wow, you're still tryin, aren't ya novice?

Tell u what, that is an interesting theory. However, I want names of inviduals who proved that this happened, that someone jammed the frequency, that an open mike jammed the ENTIRE DPD communications netwoerk right when JFK's head exploded, then was opened again 5 seconds later when Curry called into the mike. Give me citations, names, proof. Not someone spouting a theory, proof.

This should be good.

[TrueNovice]

You brought up the dictabelt recording falsely supporting a conspiracy theory.I said all we could know is that someone, if not Officer McLain, with access to the police frequencies jammed channel 1 used for police communications. The other police channel was reserved for the Secret Service supposedly protecting JFK that day.

[TrueNovice]

The same thing after Martin Luther King was killed. King's was investigated by the FCC. The JFK microphone jamming was not investigated by the FCC and only became an issue when the jammed microphone supposedly recorded 4 gun shots. What are you actually disputing? That either the JFK incident did not occur durig the assasination, the King incident did not occur or that it had no effect on police communications?

[BigPapaShitz]

Ah HA! Caught you in another false logic scenario. so easy with conspiracy theorists.

Novice, you have not backed up ONE SINGLE THEORY or IDEA with FACT. Not one.

Let us try yet again:

"All we know," you say, "is that SOMONE jammed it."

Do we know that? do we know that someone jammed it?

[BigPapaShitz]

Dr. Phil conspired to get Britney Spears onto his show ... a CONSPIRACY! STOP THE PRESSES! Why aren't you all over that conspiracy, novice? You should believe in that one!

It is hilarious that you are so dismissive of scholarly analysis of conspiracy theorists writ large, their origins, and their reason for existing, when it turns a light on your own kind. The Dr. Phil comment was veeery telling.

[TrueNovice]

I didn't realize your were giving me "scholarly analysis." I though it was just a load of bull shit psychobable. Sorry, to hurt your feelings.

[BigPapaShitz]

That's a lie. There is famous audio of Jesse Curry yellign into his mike "we have to get to Parkland! that was recorded BACK AT POLICE HEADQUARTERS all of 3 to 5 SECONDS after the final shot. jammed communications that prevented the police from communicating? Hahahahaha...

...hahahahahahahahahaha

Try again! Completely COMPLETELY untrue. You do not even know how to back up the theories you read in those dime novels. They are so rediculously full of lies. My god.

[TrueNovice]

So the microphone was jammed on and it had no effect on police communications among the police in the motorcade? The jamming stopped after Kennedy was dead, which is why Jesse curry can be heard after Kennedy is dead.

[BigPapaShitz]

Right, Novice:

So, someone all-powerful, who knew the moment of death, jammed and then unjammed the microphones within 3 to 5 seconds of the fatal headshot from some unknown magical position in Dallas (or in outer space)...and jammed the entire network according to you (totally false) to what end? And then knew exactly when to reinstate it? Do you know how rediculous you sound? Use your BRAIN. And also you're wrong, one jammed mike does NOT impete the entire system. Incorrect!! Christ.

[TrueNovice]

Nothing magical about it. If you knew Kennedy was in the Plaza at 12:30, its not that difficult to do. And as you may not know something very similar happened when Martin Luther King was killed - the interference with police communications. That 1968 event was investigated by FCC engineers, who concluded that the interference was a sophisticated technical operation, Here you would just need someone in the motorcade to hold the microphone while JFK was on Elm Street.

[BigPapaShitz]

Perhaps the most contentious aspect of a conspiracy theory is the problem of settling a particular theory's truth to the satisfaction of both its proponents and its opponents. Particular accusations of conspiracy vary widely in their plausibility, but some common standards for assessing their likely truth value may be applied in each case.

Occam's razor - is the alternative story more complicated and therefore less probable than the mainstream story?

[BigPapaShitz]

Conspiratorial accounts can be emotionally satisfying when they place events in a readily-understandable, moral context. The subscriber to the theory is able to assign moral responsibility for an emotionally troubling event or situation to a clearly-conceived group of individuals. Crucially, that group does not include the believer. The believer may feel excused of any moral or political responsibility for remedying whatever institutional or societal flaw might be the actual source.

[TrueNovice]

Thank you Dr. Phil.

[BigPapaShitz]

A person who believes in one conspiracy theory tends to believe in others; a person who does not believe in one conspiracy theory tends not to believe another. This may be caused by differences in the information upon which parties rely in formulating their conclusions. Once cognized, confirmation bias and avoidance of cognitive dissonance may reinforce the belief. In a context where a conspiracy theory has become popular within a social group, communal reinforcement may equally play a part.

[BigPapaShitz]

Scholars you might try reading without your usual dismissive "Big Lie/They are part of the coverup bias":

William Manchester Anna Nelson Jim Moore Larry Hancock Robert Dallek Theodore Sorenson

Norman Mailer (A Giant who went from Conspiracy buff away) Vincent Bugliosi (can you handle 1700 pages of detailed & cross referenced material, or are you just going to believe that a couple of dime conspiracy novelists, threatened by the finality of Bugliosi's work, dismissed it without reason?)

[BigPapaShitz]

Interesting, the HSCA found a rediculous probability (since completely refuted) that there was a 90 something odd % chance of a second gunman o nthe grassy knoll -- and yet you instantly claim that they are not objective and that the are part of the Big Lie. They found a conspiracy! Doesn't that back your ultimate belief? Are you jumping ship now?

[TrueNovice]

I think you are referring to the police audio tapes that supposedly recorded gun shots. The only thing we can conclude is that for whatever reason, inadvertantly or not, immediately before, during and after the assassination someone was jamming police communications. It's very suspicious, I agree, but I don't know if it necessarily means conspiracy.

[BigPapaShitz]

Oh for the LOVE of GOD. NOW you think someone was jamming police comminications? Based on WHAT? No one in the police department even said anything was jammed! I have never even HEARD that cockeyed theory before! What do you base jammed comminications on? The tapes are uncut, the signal consecutive! It was PROVEN, Novice, that the tape in question was from a jammed open mike, on a motorcycle blocks from Dealey Plaza (they pinpointed the location of the officer at 12:30pm).Jammed? Christ almighty.

[TrueNovice]

Again, for whatever reason, mistakenly or not the police channel was jammed. The police could not communicate with each other during this period durin the assassination. It's a fact. What the fact means, I don't know. The identity of Officer McCain is disputed by him and others.

[BigPapaShitz]

Logic - Do the proofs offered follow the rules of logic, or do they employ Fallacies of logic?

Methodology - are the proofs offered for the argument well constructed, i.e., using sound methodology? Is there any clear standard to determine what evidence would prove or disprove the theory? Whistleblowers - how many people — and what kind — have to be loyal conspirators? Falsifiability - Is it possible to demonstrate that specific claims of the theory are true, or are they "unfalseifiable"?

[BigPapaShitz]

would demand incredulous rage, appalled condemnation. LHO is indifferent, carefree, with a "whatever' attitude. Shocked that he is being charged with the assassination? Have you WATCHED the footage? Then there are his actions. In the interviews with police, he went from on day one stating he was on the 5th floor during the assassination, eating lunch, to stating he was on the 1st floor reading the paper, to finally, the hour before he died, stating he was in the 2nd floor lunchroom. WHY?

[BigPapaShitz]

Conspiracy nutjobs aside, who even the most jaded conspiracy novice (ahem) should be able to see are trying to make money off of a murder by posting autopsy photos, and telling half truths, there is a staggering amount of proof that Oswald was not only involved (innocent?? are you kidding me?) but was the assassin. Anyone who studies law or human nature, and watches LHO's behavior in front of the press, knows the man is not innocent. Human nature in such an unbelievable situation would

[BigPapaShitz]

And you now think Marina is a government puppet/ Interesting, Novice. You might want to rethink that little conspiracy nutjob line, regurgitated over and over by desperate conspiracy authors tryign to make money. Marina today believes Oswald was innocent, and worked for the CIA...but she still admits despite this 180 reversal that he shot at Walker in April of 1963, and that she was so terrified when he came home that night, she almost called the police on him. Now try to reconcile that.

[BigPapaShitz]

Now, since you believe books like "Accessories After the Fact," and that proven liar McNight (have you ever read what his fellow scholars say about that man?? Have you? Obviously not - he is a laughingstock.) then you obviously can explain away the hundreds, neight, thousands, of facts -- FACTS -- that make Oswald so guilty that conspiracy authors purposely suppress said info in their books. Oswald was the only one to flee the TSBD. He left all of his $ and wedding ring on his wife's nightstand.

[TrueNovice]

I can imagine it's not a great idea career wise for a College Professor to oppose the government version of events here but tell me more about why Professor McKnight is a laughing stock. His book "Breach of Trust" was awsome. You should read it and learn something. Probably more than you have in 17 years of your so-called study. What historian do you recommend I read?

[BigPapaShitz]

See, novice, you are a bonafide conspiracy whackjob. Because Scholars who treat knowledge and the study of history as a search for truth and unbiased discourse, consider McKnight to be a nutball, you automatically dismiss the opposers as part of the establishment, and even government stooges. Classic Conspiracy logic (lack thereof) - if you are not with us, you are part of the coverup (Now number in the milliosn of people worldwide over 45 years)...and yet no one has ever leaked! Amazing!

[BigPapaShitz]

Therein lies the key to why your question to me is flawed. You have no base interest in reading any scholar or honest researcher who went into his/her research of the assassination unbiased, because you by your very NATURE are biased, and you unconsciously (or consciously) seek a means that already justifies the ends. If the pieces do not fit your preconceived puzzle, then you do not want to accept them. As goes every conspiracy reseacher, and the essential flaws of all of this crap. Laughable.

[TrueNovice]

I have read, the Warren Report, the HSCA report, Belin and Posner and you are right their not objective scholarly researchers. Give me the name of these historians who have studied the case. I will check them out. Honest.

[BigPapaShitz]

Tell me, what makes you believe the Warren Judges, lawyers, and scholars purposely -- purposely - hid and warped information to coverup a conspiracy? Because a conspiracy book told you so, without any proof to back it up? You have read so many conspiracy books that repeat how "evil" the Warren commission was so many time,s because they )admittedly) made some aggregious errors in their analysis, because they havd limited access and limited technology in 1964, that you automatically dismiss them.

[TrueNovice]

A poor performance, or a bad outcome doesn't necessarily mean a bad motive. Some of the Warren Commision Lawyers did the best they could in the time alloted to them. Some of their work and that of the FBI was excellent and many of the Warren Commision members doubted the ultimate conclusions. But then again, i think Oswald is innocent, so maybe I'm not the name calling judgemental type.

[BigPapaShitz]

son, I have studied the murder for 17 YEARS, traveling all over the USA to do it, and I have NEVER heard the nuclear reactor bit. And guess what, Anna Nelson, one of the Assassination review board chairs, was my mentor at American University. She scoffed nat the conspiracy bunk, because she said there was NOTHING there after all was said and done -- nothign they found supported a conspiracy. I will repeat, to try to get you off this tangent: paraffin tests do not work. Get OVER it!

[BigPapaShitz]

I want your PROOF that Oswald is innocent.; Liek all conspiracy nuts, you offered no proof, you only tossed out conjecture, innuendo, and hearsay. What PROOF do you have? anything? It's been 45 years, and not ONE ounce, not one iota of proof has surfaced. Nothing. No smoking gun, as it were. Nada. So, novice, be the hero: tell us your proof, and back it up with FACT, with substance. Still waiting...

[BigPapaShitz]

If you knew ANYTHING about paraffin tests, even the most noted forensic scholars readily note that such tests are mind bogglingly unreliable, offering both false negatives and even false positives!! So even if it said Oswald HAD fired that day, it would not be reliable. Paraffin can be concentrated on anything - exhaust from cars, smog, metal shavings. And army snipers have fired rifles repeatedly in tests, only to have negative test results. Do some basic research, novice. Christ almighty.

[TrueNovice]

Oswald never had a paraffin test as you say? He did and it was negative. They then subjected the casts to further testing, using a nuclear reactor. Again it was negative. They then had a control group firing rifles to see if the NAA test could be defeated, but were unable to do so. The results were buried until the Assassination Review board released them in the 1990. Professor McKnight writes about it in his book "Breach of Trust," Pat Speer also does a good review of it on his web site.

[BigPapaShitz]

Novice, which dime novella are you getting your conspiracy bunk from? Oswald NEVER had a paraffin facial cast. No, he did not, Bullshit. He had hand and forearm paraffin casts done. They were negative. and they used a "nuclear reactor" to do further tests on the casts? hahahahaha tell me, were sharks with laser beams attached to their heads also involved? where do you get your bullshit?? Nuclear reactor?

[TrueNovice]

Also, I would remind you that at one time in America the State had to prove it's case beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case, there wasn't even a normal investigation. They haven't even shown, wheer he was able to buy ammunition for the rifle that day. The murder is unsolved, the killers of President Kennedy went free.

[BigPapaShitz]

Havent been able to show where LHO bought the ammo? Oh. My. God. You are so full of disinformation you don't know where the truth starts and the lies end. You have been BRAINWASHED! Novice, do a little primary source material research and get out from under the brainwash psychosis. Oswald ordered the ammo through the same company that he bought the rifle from (I assume you will now say he never oordered the rifle, he did not own the rifle, he did not have his wife take pics of him with it).

[TrueNovice]

No Oswald didn't order the ammo from the Klein Sporting goods under the Hiddell name or any other. It was a World War II Italian rifle. It was virtually impossible to find ammunition for it in 1963. The FBI checked over 200 gunshops, and could only locate one that sold it. That one claimed not to have sold it to Oswald or anyone else during the time Oswald supposedly had the rifle in his possession. Again, read Accessories After the fact or Professor Mc Kniight's Breach of Trust.

[BigPapaShitz]

Wait a minute. Virtually impossible to find ammo for the rifle in 1963? You are so full of shit I can smell it from here! Marina testified that LHO had ammo stored in their bedroom closet, in the Paines' garage, and in the kitchen cabinets, which made her angry. People TODAY can purchase that same rifle and ammo for it online -- I have a good friend who owns the LHO rifle and corresponding ammo!! You are rediculous, Novice. You swallow complete lies. You are lost. Completely fooled and lost.

[TrueNovice]

Oswald bought it on-line in 1963. Thanks for the heads up. That makes sense. They never found any Carcano ammo in the Paine garage or among Oswalds possessions. And now you believe Marina Oswald who told the FBI and Secret Service for months that she never saw her husband with the rifle, and changed her testimony when they threatened her with deportation to the Soviet Union.

[BigPapaShitz]

*SIGH* I have to spoon feed everything to you, in true conspiracy theorist form, because you will not (or cannot) make inferences, or learned deductions on your own. Very well. Listen carefully. You are wrong, and there is detailed paperwork corroborrating this: Oswald had ammo in the Paines' garage: there was an ammo box and cartridges found that were heavily documented. Don't know this/ Stop reading conspiracy books that omit facts. Gulliable much? I am dead serious.

[TrueNovice]

If they had found Carcano ammo in the Paines garage. Photos of it would be in every newspaper. Okay, I will defer to your vast knowledge of the case developed in 17 years of study. Tell me the page(s) in the Warren Report or in the Hearing and Exhibits wher it says that. Or better yet, quote the actual passage with a citation, and you will win me over from the dark side.

[BigPapaShitz]

Flawed answer, Novice. But nice try. You know very well (surely even u know) that they found the blanket that was wrapped around the Carcano rifle in the garage, b/c fibers were found on the rifle & in the rifle bag (did you know that??) and the pictures of the garage do not show the blanket, do they? The photos of the garage are of the entire garage, at a wide angle, & do not show any one item - not the ammo, the blanket, the shell box, LHO's personal effects that were also there. So try again.

[TrueNovice]

Tell me where it says about the ammo in Oswald's possession or among his belongings in any report whatsoever. Even check with your mentor lady friend, see if she knows about it. I would really be impressed because I missed it.

[jloup95]

Le policier dit"circulez,y a rien à voir!".Et les gens se laissent aller à leur instinct peut être à cause de l'odeur de poudre encore présente ?

L'homme au chapeau ne cherche pas de la monnaie perdu à terre,il cherche une ou des douilles de balle

Il c'est surement passé quelque chose dans cette endroit...

[BigPapaShitz]

...and, little novice who believes anything that sounds cool, no matter how implausible or no matter how little evidence there is to support such a claim...you are merely one of scores of suckers who pay $ for conspiracy books that purposely distort the record, because the authors have an adgenda to follow to make money. Don't believe me? Then do your own research, which doesn't mean reading paperback books in stores and blogs online. Your own, primary source research. Just too lazy. hahaha

[TrueNovice]

Posner with his 1 million dollar up front book payment and Bugliosi with his 10 part forthcoming HBO special hosted by Tom Hanks based on his book. Zapruder film Cartoonist Myers paid a $100,000 "consulting fee" by ABC/Peter Jennings. Not to mention all the political hacks on the Warren Commission. Really, who is profiting from exploiting the assassination? At most, I think they have not proven the case against Oswald and there is a strong case for Oswald's innocence.

[TrueNovice]

By the way, BigPapaShitz, all the cursing really makes you look intelligent. I am very impressed with your obvious legal acumen. I take it back, you are obviously going to make a fine lawyer.

[BigPapaShitz]

Ok Novice, very well. I will call you on your bluff. all posing aside, I want you to give us your proof that Oswald is innocent. Tell us what "strong case" there is that Oswald did not shoot Kennedy. I guarantee you -- guarantee you -- that each and every single piece of "evidence" you try to stick to a wall will fall off, because there is NOT any evidence absolving him. The man did it, and every piece of factual evidence proves it. But conspiracy whackjobs ignore it and warp truths in denial.

[TrueNovice]

Officer Baker's testimony in conjunction with 2 photographs of the TSBD taken immediately after the assassination exonerates Oswald. The results of neutron activation followup study of the paraffin cast of Oswald's face, the existence of which was concealed for almost 40 years, also seems to offer forensic proof that Oswald did not fire a rifle that day.

[BigPapaShitz]

Novice, you are so wrong it is staggering. How such disinformation can survive, over and over again, despite repeated clarifications by responsible historians who are not working with alterior motives, just speaks of how powerful the dime novel conspiracy bullshitters are...THOSE are the ones that stick in brains like yours. Sigh. Unbelievable.

Baker's testimony and 2 photos exonerates oswald? HA! Explain that one. In detail. Detail. Next: Oswald never HAD a paraffin cast of his face.

[TrueNovice]

Officer Baker met a calm and collected Oswald in the lunchroom of the Depository 90 seconds after the assasination. Oswald was so calm and collected, he was eliminated from suspicion by Ofice Baker. Oswald had by this time supposedly,wiped the rifle of prints, and concealed the rifle ran down 4 filghts of stairs. David Belin, the WC lawyer says on the 3rd recreation, they were able to get Baker and the Oswald stand in together with only 8 seconds to spair.

[TrueNovice]

However, the Dillard and Powell photographs taken of the TSBD immediately after the last shot were analyzed by the HSCA photo panel in 1978. They concluded of the so called sniper's lair "There is an apparent rearranging of boxes within 2 minutes after the last shot was fired at President Kennedy" (6 HSCA 109). Who is moving those boxes? It cant't be Oswald since he is supposedly encountering Officer Baker at this point.

[BigPapaShitz]

Lies. Nowhere in the official testimony does ANYONE state that there was an apparent or otherwise rearranging of boxes. I OWN the entire transcript! Do not try to bullshit me, I am the last one who will let u get away with it. And your statement doesn't even make SENSE. Within 2 minutes of the final shot, the boxes are rearranged? The pictures in question were taken no more than 20-25 seconds after the final shot. Where does the two minutes come from? You are grasping at inviible straws, kid.

[TrueNovice]

You have the page and volume number. What more do you need? Read it yourself.

[BigPapaShitz]

Baker met a calm and collected Oswald, who no less than eight reenectments of the 90 second time lapse were able to perfectly replicate Oswald's movements, including a famous CBS 60 Minutes reenactment done in 1968 that literally TIMED an actor doing it on camera -- it took 78 odd seconds to get to the 2nd floor and grab a coke. The walk is easy, & I myself have done it with the curator of the TSBD, timed, in under 90 seconds. Have YOU done it? No, of course not. You repeat conspiracy novellas.

[BigPapaShitz]

hahahaha little novice, apperpo name that it is... 1) I am not yet a lawyer (I know that's hard to figure out, but try. 2) As Shakespeare said "The first thing we must do is kill all the lawyers" (and if you believe tht is the Bard actually INSULTING lawyers rather than praising their importance, then you don't know Shakespeare or Henry VI, idiot) and 3) I did believe in conspiracy once. Then I studied on my own. Stopped reading conspiracy books & looking at out of context videos (see above).

[BennieAA]

coz of all the places in the world, middle america is the one place where you're gonna be taught the truth!

[bouncer97]

bush says ''sources unknown'' on his ''furnished hearsay''(translation:furnishe­d alibi).So the only explanation is HE'S THE SOURCE...right LN'S?

[BigPapaShitz]

LMAO you conspiracy clowns are an endless source of entertainment. *cue benny hill theme*

[bouncer97]

An endless source of entertainment,is the fact you still think you and your kind are somehow relevent...ha,havent been since 11/22/63.Its over son ....you lose.

[BigPapaShitz]

Yup, coming from someone who thinks the laws of physics or probability apply everywhere but in Dallas, Texas, I don't think I am the one who has lost. You are a fringe element, an afterthought, a scoff, something that intellects laugh at as a paranoid, baseless, innuendo dripping anti-reasoned what-if imbecile. You have never had one ounce of proof to back up your whackjob theories, and yet you keep going. When challenged to prove yourself, you avoid the question. Typical moron. ROFL. You lose.

[BennieAA]

are you the son of earl warren or something?

[BigPapaShitz]

No, I am merely a law student in middle America who has spent many years studying the assassination, and went from being a solid conspiracy believer to someone who got tired of the lies.

[bouncer97]

what lies?Cause the only ones to blame for lies in the first place was our own govt. THEY fueled the conspiracy.They have no one to blame but themselves THEY CREATED ALL OF THIS DOUBT!!!! obstruction of justice,cover-up...did oswald do that?

[BigPapaShitz]

lol bouncer, aka chubbychaser, aka vinnyvoom:

I will ask again.

For the 17th time.

We are all still waiting.

Give us one, single, iota of proof that your vast conspiracy occurred on 11/22/63. Just one piece of evidence. Not a guess, not a rumor, not a theory. Proof. Evidence.

Still waiting, child. We're all still waiting. We've been waiting for 45 years. You going to give us that proof or will we still wait?

[bouncer97]

First of all, Obstruction of justice,missing evidence,cover-up is all the proof i need. 2nd of all If it was the act of a ''lone nut'' none of that would be needed.Right?...or will we still wait?

[MikeGuitarFreak]

The fatal bullit came from the man hole cover on the right side of the road. The bullit hit JFK's head to the far right temple area and in an upwards direction (ground upwards). No one has ever noticed this before.

Why did everyone look above ground. You silly people!! the truth was right there below you!!

The school book depositry theory is a hoax.

[TrueNovice]

Isn't Lawyer Latin for Lawyer. You became a lawyer because you wanted to tell lies yourself and eliminate the middleman. Doing a fine job!

[BigPapaShitz]

ROFL Little Notice (a perfect name for you) ... I see that your powers of observation are matched only by your penchant for losing any conception of reality in a historical context. did I say I am already a lawyer? where did I say that? I am in law school, you blithering, gulliable jackoff. hahahaha typical conspiracy brain, jumping to assumed conclusions without one iota of fact to back them up.

Oswald is guilty. deal with it, you conspiracy lie swallowing cock gagger. hahahaha

[TrueNovice]

There you go again, using all your big lawyer words on me. Yeah I got you, you claim "one time" you believed in conspiracy but were convinced by the overwhelming weight of the evidence that Oswald acting alone killed Kennedy. It's no wonder people have a low opinion of lawyers and why it's well deserved. You are not yet a lawyer, so maybe you won't pass the bar or drop out. Then you will have to find some other way to steal and mislead. So I will close on that optimistic note. Best wishes.

[lawdog83]

Actually the U.S. Government had information prior to the Dallas assasination that Kennedy had been targted. The police in Florida obtained evidence of a plot and passed the same onto the Feds. The FBI sent out telexes in November '63 to their offices essientially stating the same. Of course The Screw Up is followed by the Cover Up. No proper homicide investigation makes this case virtually impossible to solve but that's the point, isnt it? Sad no one investigated the "investigators".

[Seeking2know]

Notice in addition to man at fence with coat. Another man in crowd walking toward fence with coat in crowd. Also man shuffling away has a ghost pass in front. There one frame gone next. Weird. Also if everyone is rushing the fence due to gunshot heard in immediate area WHO would be disinterested and walk away?

Very strange reaction...to composed.

[bouncer97]

Think about it,don't you think if these 2 guys were innocent the ss would have cleared it up and said ''yep there with us''?But no they are NEVER seen,or heard from again.Forget the 3 tramps its the guy with the coat over his arm and the other bad actor walking with his back to the camera hiding his face.WAKE UP PEOPLE ITS RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PRAYSGOD]

DAMN BITCH LET THE VIDEO ROLE DAWG

[chubbychaser31]

Watch the last 2 guys,there spooks creating diversions...THEN POOF..GONE FOREVER,Ha,nice huh?

[chubbychaser31]

OPEN YOUR EYES FOLKS!!!!! Those 2 guys are spooks creating diversions,spotters,possible shooters.. whatever..BUT LOOK there both acting WAAAY to hard to be casual.Look at the guy on the left hiding his face from the camera,looking down,what are they hiding?hmmm..ha yeah.

[p101James]

Looks like LBJ did it all by himself with a breakdown .30 cal. rifle inside his coat with special sabot inserts!

[chubbychaser31]

Can anyone ID these 2 guys(one with the coat and the other guy on the left)?But seriously folks, look at them looking down,phoney shuffle off you dont think thats weird AND they have NEVER been identified?

[chubbychaser31]

simple question,why is he still carrying it like that when shots were just fired?You dont carry it like that after the president was just shot at.LOOK!again these 2 guys are acting WAAAAY TO HARD to be casual,looking down,play it off walk by the guy coming from the left, back to the screen.watch 5 minutes into ''critical minutes in dealey plaza''

[PRAYSGOD]

people, it was all a set up.

perfectly planned, those basterds plotted on him for a long time, and it couldnt have been done by one person, we will never see what realy happen, cuz these videos are not original, the original is probly with the enemy or destroyed. if we were to see the real footage it will look nothing like how you see here. it will give you the answer amidiatly to what realy happen.

[TATER1971]

Not sure what I'm looking at...all I see is a man leaving,with a coat over his arm (which doesn't really look like there's anything in it)...and then another man walking behind a group of women? I must be missing something.

[chubbychaser31]

look at the final seconds,both these guys are looking down trying to avoid the camera with a fake shuffle off.Never questioned,possible suspects,possible witnesses ..ha..gone..forever..nice.

[325beatle]

what happen to his coat he was holding?

[texonthebeach]

Scrap that one, turns out Campbell died in '62

[texonthebeach]

The possibility he is known as Gordon Campbell today is highly unlikely. If he is even alive.

[texonthebeach]

Look at the chin, then check out the videos on the CIA assasination of RFK. 1 and 2.

[texonthebeach]

He is not the shooter. If this is a part of the team, he is the CIA man found immediately behind the fence after the hit. The actual trigger man is long gone. There is a good chance the pieces of the rifle are under the coat or he has just disposed of it before this film was shot. He was trying to get out sooner but he was distracted by creating distractions. Hunt it turns out was not a big cat on this day.

[texonthebeach]

Gordon Campbell

[texonthebeach]

His name is campbell.

[brigichan]

But hey... somebody is hiding behind the fence! You can see him/her lifting up his/her head a bit and ducking in the immediate moment! (s)he notices the camera, possibly?

[rosskstar]

lol, yea that was a great hiding spot huh...so great he just stayed there for hours lol

[10Garmonbozia01]

I do not think it is Hunt either, but it is indeed poor quality. The spot on the sidewalk(steps to the knoll) is by some claimed to be blood, but most probable the fluid from a bottle gotten knocked over.

[MisterQuebec]

A reporter whose name I can't remember says he *tasted* the liquid, and it was blood. Was he playing a trick on the interviewer, it's at anyone's guess.

[xxZaharoulaxx]

Please explain the meaning of this ?

[MisterQuebec]

Read on Internet:

QUOTE

The blood on the steps was seen by Jerry Coley, a reporter from the Dallas

Morning News, right after the assassination. He even stuck his finger in it and

>tasted it to make sure it was blood. He took pictures of the steps and turned

his film over to the FBI. It's never been seen again.

UNQUOTE

[MisterQuebec]

Continuation:

QUOTE

He was not alone though in seeing the blood. Another reporter from the newspaper was with him and saw it too. I think this is a very reliable source. Mr. Coley is still alive today, but refuses to give an interview. His life was threatened several times after

giving Wallace O'Chariton an interview.

UNQUOTE

[MisterQuebec]

He's not Hunt. How did you determined he's trying to hide his face? Later on you see Deputy Sheriff Buddy Walthers looking at a spot on the sidewalk.

[kabbalahgirl]

unbelievable! The man in the suit is certainly trying to hide his face as he walks away. E. Howard Hunt?