Derren Brown - The System - Quadrouple NLP

[rockboy679]

Anybody else notice that there are 13 digits, therefore making it 1.48 TRILLION not billion. Derren is so good at persuasion he made you believe the odds were smaller than they really were.

[Backyardplay]

Odds on this happening in the real world? Unless a mistake is made in the execution of this trick, it's 1/1 since Derren is a professional trickster. You rock Derren, Keep on blowing minds!

[langeveld8]

ok, only way i can explain this is post-hypnotic effect....

[DustyStew]

That the numbers on the photos match the probability number is inherent in the fact they picked the right photo. That the envelopes match the photos is also inherent. Remember Derren can remember the position of every card in a deck, so handing out the envelopes seemingly randomly, that is not the case. He knew who would get which envelope.

The trick here is how he got the people to select a photo with the same initials, combined with getting them to stand on the right circle.

[boredom62]

never stops to amaze me

[iuli1993]

it could be real....but the odds are..incredible and could be fake meaning...that all this was directed.....

[gchain]

We are influenced by all the things in the world.

[1nspirator]

Fake, duh...

[MrGallagher]

Anyone know how he did the order bit? Only guess I have is that he has 24 different ways to show order, one for each order, including that red envelope, that appear to be as forward-thinking as pulling off said red envelope. I mean, he never said before they got in that order, "The order I've predicted is in this red envelope here." If they'd got into a different order, he might easily have pulled out a card from his pocket, or from behind the white-board, etc... Any other ideas?

[MrGallagher]

I do notice that, despite the fact that the envelopes are shuffled, it is indeed Derren who hands them out, and he doesn't seem to hand them out in random order. I'd imagine there's something tipping him off as to which envelope is which and hands them out accordingly.

[entaroduai]

the system was one of best shows ever made

[dugw15]

He doesn't need to be able to predict which horse will win. If you've seen enough Derren, you know he can convince the window workers to give him money even for a losing ticket.

/watch?v=II_-QcW4Q4I

[zidex]

he picks the winning horse at the end of this episode

he doesnt use the same trick he did at the dog track =p

[Gwambua]

@dugw15 i dont think you understand, the issue here is that the lady was given the ticket before hand, so it means that Derren picked out the winning horse prior to the horses racing, handed it over to the lady and she held it all along up until the horse crossed the finish line. Somethings afoot here, and its wicked!!!!

[ezname1234]

this still doesnt show how i can win in horse races lol good trick to ponder about tho

[Matzes]

check out the whole show,it can be found on youtube

[Matzes]

@ezname1234 you totally missed the point of the show... ;) well I guess you didn t watch the whole thing...you should,its great =)

[johntkucz]

I loved the math in this one.

[simosystem1]

the principle behind The System (essentially confirmation bias) is what is behind belief in spiritualism or homeopathic and alternative medicine.

[kopfgeldjagar]

Didn't Derren leave out one part of the math when calculating his odds? He had 4 "random" envelopes. That would be a permutation of 4. (4x3x2x1). Then the 500 pics. (500x499x498x497) then the 4 spots for them to stand, again (4x3x2x1). SO, if my math is correct, he sold himself way short. He said the odds of all that happening were 1 in 1.48 billion, but if you add in the envelopes, you get 1 in 35.57 TRILLION. Can someone verify?

[mikecreeth]

No, he is correct. He didn't specify which way the envelopes were going to be passed out. Given that they were passed out that way, he was calculating the odds that the pictures they chose would be the same.

[johntkucz]

I like permutations and combinations, though. Nice number-crunching!

[thecolonel981]

Huge fan of derren but this is fairly simple for the most part. Though this is one of the rare few clips I can say that about his stuff. He realized that they would subconciously pick the people with their initials, planted the pictures with those people at certain places in that jumble so they would be closer or farther away and put the numbers on there so that theyd work out in advance. The confusing part is how they got the right envelopes. He may have marked them so he knew who to give what

[76639]

he didnt hand the envelopes out in order therefore that part of the trick is not random as he handed them the correct envelope!!!

[Dleerium]

Phenomenal stuff! Derren hands down is my favorite performance/magician/mentalist­.

[netspectre101]

If he uses NLP to get them to pick the pictures and stand where they stand, how does that explain his horse picking system?

[lee23joseph]

hmm maybe it doesnt?

perhaps this segment is quite separate from the pyramid selection that he later explains. what if this little show, was just an exercise in his own abilities.

argh i dont know, haha

[requiemaeternam7]

i think he just hypnotized them all and hypnotized us through the computer screen so we think he got it right.

[JezzlyJames]

LOL yeah that sounds about right

[pedropirat]

most likely rely so far lol

[blogologist]

Hypnosis used to control which picture they got? I bet they didn't stand in the right circles the first time lol Derren would be more convincing if there weren't so many camera edits.

[dixoncheng]

What exactly is NLP mean?

[helloween76]

Neuro Linguistics Programing

[kershawwma]

actually, it's "Neuro Linguistic Programming"

[DamoFragile]

but the odds for that as he said would be 1.48billion.. so.. unless he did it for years upon end with different people from around the world then ye he might have done

[Bunjabin]

well you have no idea how many of the other pictures that match their initials, so if it just so happened that there were only those 4, he could trick their subconscience into picking the right picture. Then comes the only part I don't know how, the lineup... maybe the order the picture are closer to where they started, so he could predict how fast they would've found them, but I dno. Rest is easy for him here on. Numbers etc. he can now place as he likes!

[ericwhyareyousocool]

He says "at this point" or "thats the point" about 4 times

[E2v0e0y6]

oh...my...god ...what the....THIS IS AWESOME!

[tkckbmproductions]

That's because this is Derren Brown ;]

[SeriousSeaman]

wtf ?? Oo has somebody any idea how this works ?

[241371]

Are you sure that this system is not simulate? I'm not...

[s66223]

at 1:31 derren mutters very quickly something that sounds lyk 'thats the one' just after he says but not impossible. also at 1:57 this is probably nuthin but he stumbles very briefly after sayin 'dent let that influence you, some' and it sounds like he mutters 'initial' or at least the first two syllabals of the word initial an i think the key to this working was in influencing them to pick the ppl wiv the same initials.

[farzad135]

has anyone told u before... ur so clever to pick out these tiny tiny things....

[quakers101]

NLP

[shadowz12321]

yea. i think that may be the case.

[s66223]

i can t begin 2 imagine how this was done

[clemensetz]

She is mixing the envelopes, but Derren is handing them out!

[satrical]

I think he did 2 and 3 the wrong way round was because the guy(3) was still putting his sticker on?

[llwyllin]

Hey you all,

yeah I love Derren Brown as well!! keeps making my day nicer! But best thing I think.. is that he mixes all arts of simple sleight-of-hand, manipulation, behavioral knowledge, NLP, and other just nicely together. It is this that makes that you always keep wandering! I hopes he keeps on doing this!!

** The wonder of life is to wander what life is **

[Matzes]

well put :) thats exactly what he s about

[fknugly222]

There's always going to be some people who take magicians and mentalists a little too seriously. Look at all the chumps that believed Uri Gellar was a psychic. This is a mentalist's trick, not NLP.

[Stead3111]

i believe derren is what is called as a mentalist. he deals with mentalism. an illusionist would be more befitting of a stage performer. derren has done stage, but uses mentalist techniques.

[callumevans324]

He doesn't classify himself as a mentalist.

He does (or used to) a lot of card stuff too etc. that has nothing to do with mentalism >.>

+ I think he found the term 'mentalist' a little too restricting in what he does O.o

[UnladeHint]

Pause at 2:32 that picture is of the main woman in "the system"

[zign92]

oh and one more thing i certainly do not aoubt in his abbilities, no magics just ming illusions. in one show he said that he is psycho-illusionist that's all. and i'm sorry if i spelled any of words wrong xD

[zign92]

what can i say he amazes me every time i see him. now there's even in slovenia show with derren brown half an hour long :) i watch it every week. he's just amazing

[richardmoores]

I fancy Katie Stephens - she's hot.I would love to ride her!

[blackdice23]

I admire your honesty

[pedropirat]

lol

[Wolfblaz13]

That's right, he is an Illusionist and not a magician ;)

[blackdice23]

Magic IS illusionism. Magic does not exist, it's a 'trick of the mind'. The System was a brilliant program, but I don't see how ANYONE can mistake it for the complex art of NLP. It is a clever maths trick, and if you can't understand that simple truth, then you don't really understand The System.

[richardmoores]

But isn't it NLP that made the volunteers stand in the right places and pick out the correct photographs?

[aceshakazu]

Do you know how nlp could make people stand in the right places and pick the right cards?

[richardmoores]

Not exactly, no, but I've seen other Derren Brown shows where he uses it to influence people's decisions. Anyway, if not NLP, how did he do it?

[aceshakazu]

I dont know just asking?

[quakers101]

its NLP....ITS NLP

[shadowz12321]

youve gotta remember the system he uses.. maybe he did this lots of times with different racing experts?

[mrwhite692000]

This is not NLP. What most people forget is that Derren is a very accomplished magician and even says in his book that he does not agree with the ideas supporters of NLP have. This is nothing more than a magic trick.

[Dmanlamius76]

I've been trying to tell people this for ages, but they wont listen. It's annoying the way everyone just presumes it's NLP when it is clearly not. Did you enjoy the book btw? I think im on my sixth or seventh read of it! :D

[chunwun123]

i'm a fan of derren brown, dont get me wrong. but i wonder how many times he gets his experiments wrong b4 he get it right, and then shows us all the right one.

i mean there too many things that can go wrong.

[chicagorocks]

Then chunwun123 you need to see his live shows where he literally has us where he wants us...

[pedropirat]

He´s not just a magician. He´s also an endurance-artist.

Most of his tricks are done right every time.

But some requires vast amounts of time and effort.

[DAH210774]

Derren is a master of magic, simply because it's magical mastery just watching him. Long Live Master Brown and keep entertaining us as you so do!

[clray123]

Indeed. If you wish to understand magic tricks, you have to realize that there's many ways to perform them. Derren is adept at fooling (most of) his audience about höw he does whät he does. Which is a necessary skill for a magician.

[DAH210774]

I'm a Master Practitioner of NLP, whatever the hell that means. Agreed they're not really worth the paper they are printed on. I'm a Life Coach now too. I mean who can call themselves a Life Coach?! I fall back heavily on my Clinical Hypnotherapy qualification a lot. Derren alludes to slight use of NLP, he's also done a course and just slated it.

[Asure007]

Clray: I don't see any _real_ NLP tricks here, i'm not an expert. But, i'll point out some of the facts though: at 00:58 he clearly says "you'll have an envelope .. TWO". And he gives the guy two finders at 01:31. Now, he also does this with number #1 on guy #1. We don't see the whole thing, this is just 10 minutes. (odds of 24/1 -> 50/50 on where the remaining two people stand)

[clray123]

What you are doing - like most "NLP people" like to do - is called "fishing for data": making up a theory which fits the facts. However, observed that a great number of theories can be made to fit that way. One could claim a causal connection practically from any of his actions to the observed outcome. To give strength theory, I'd expect to see statistical studies which confirm that telling a guy "TWO" in such a situation tends to influence his behavior like you suppose. Where are such studies?

[strabbs1]

also he clearly and regularly "admits" to using nlp, although i agree it has had poor results in advertising, auto suggestion works very well in marketing, read blink, very interesting, certainly not bs as you say

[clray123]

Oh yeah? Point me to an interview where he admits using NLP then?

[elusivefish21]

theres a video on youtube where he uses it on Simon pegg and says as much in the analysis

[clray123]

Quote from Derren: "I've attended NLP courses and things like that, and although there's some interesting and useful aspects to them, they're generally so evangelically packaged and full of self-fulfilling nonsense that it put me off."

There you go, he admits using suggestion techniques and distances himself from NLP crap explicitly.

[chunwun123]

he does not "distances himself from NLP crap explicitly". u must of misread the line

"there's some interesting and useful aspects to them"

if u got to 1 of his websites he recomends a lot of differnt nlp books

[clray123]

On which website does he recommend NLP books?

[chunwun123]

of course he uses nlp, he doesnt have to admint it, any1 can see he uses nlp.

[meluvme9]

wats nlp??

[pedropirat]

lol

[clray123]

Why would he distance himself from NLP ("self-fulfilling nonsense") if he thought it was worth endorsing? You are jumping to conclusions in assuming he uses NLP. What he says is that there are some (!) aspects he found interesting; if he believed in effectiveness of NLP as a coherent method, surely he wouldn't put it that way. Indeed, he could make nice money promoting NLP - which YOU do, but not him.

[strabbs1]

i wouldnt call it pseudoscientific at all, theres lots of evidence to show it works, watch derrens show, something wicked this way comes and see wot you think, fairly conclusive in my humble opinion

[clray123]

The fact that you can't explain how a trick works does NOT mean it is evidence for NLP.

[clray123]

I find it disturbing how people associate DB with NLP, even though he has never claimed to use NLP in his tricks. The whole point of the show was to demonstrate that the HIDDEN "behind the scenes" facts do matter a lot and we ought to consider simple alternative explanations to what is going on. Attempting to explain DB's tricks by resorting to NLP - and only interpreting his NON-HIDDEN televised actions - is neither simple nor necessary.

[mercutioreprise]

What you haven't seen is the lead up where Derren most likely planted a number of suggestions and cues in the minds of the participants.

[Asure007]

clray: If you think that the four experts made a free choice, when they were asked to, then you don't see what he's doing. As he passed the envelopes, i'm almost certain he says 'foreign bloke' instead of 'four envelopes'.. I still need to take a good look at the whole thing. (He also knew these people before hand, they were interviewed and asked to come to this event, the segment is part of a 50 minute show called "The System".)

[clray123]

It is much more likely that the pictures were prearranged or that he uses gimmicked envelopes or that these folks were not the only group who was invited to the show or that the whole is a stitch-up of not so related scenes (explained to the participants)... Keep in mind that THIS show was about fooling people by cherry-picking from data. Not about any NLP bs.

[clray123]

What makes you think it has anything to do with NLP?

[farzad135]

what does NLP stand for?

[clray123]

NLP = Neuro-linguistic programming, a pseudoscientific theory whose proponents like to claim that you can influence people's decisions by "subtle" "subliminal" messages (such as mispronounced words). However, when tested properly, both NLP and subliminal advertising fail miserably. Thus, NLP reduces to a money-making scheme for "experts" who offer NLP training and sell NLP books (who may be either self-deluded or fraudulent).

[farzad135]

thanx buddy

[mercutioreprise]

Actually, a well researched branch of linguistic pshychology that is proven to be useful in treating a number of different conditions and generating positive behavioural change. unfortunately, it has been hijacked and misused by the 'motivational' market who use it for commercial gain.

[clray123]

Point me to the controlled experiments that demonstrate that NLP (in the sense of influencing people's decisions by "planting suggestions") works.

[elusivefish21]

again, red bmx and simon pegg replacing a memory with implanted information

[clray123]

You don't understand the meaning of "controlled experiment", do you? I did not ask for references to TV shows.