Double-stroke roll using Moeller Method

[beatsandthings]

awesome! just one question i always get told not to use the fingers in german grip what are your thoughts on this?

[kungfuninja55]

youve got a loud overtone on that drum.

[150pokemonred]

All I have to say is dang That's pretty fast for going up that HIGH.

[adderton8]

My band teacher would stick my drum stick up my butt if he saw me Pick my sticks up that High!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[joeyisfunny]

Holy shit!

[cupcakemania4]

Im doing everything u said but i cant get it right

[regaltip8A]

Sorry but Moeller is all about natural rebound.You have got it wrong. I studied with Chad Wackerman for three years and if I played a double stroke roll with the amount of wasted energy displayed by yourself he would have kicked my ass. If you are going to post these type of videos you should really do your homework.Sorry close but not close enough.

[715adub]

so when you start getting to faster speeds..what are you doing? After a certain speed you can't really use your fingers, but just throwing the stick down and letting it flop both strokes out usually sounds like butt..just trying to figure out what happens at the really fast speeds?

[trigapula]

sticks way to high but clean roll



[stevenkerg]

talk show

[thehornypuppy]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORING!

[dmsgjj1]

it looks like he's jerkin off when he starts gettin into it..cool vid though i suck at doubles

[Yourfacespants]

3:02-3:05 is a lie.

He's like Travis Parker.

[lumyingluo]

nice

[YoYoGuy951]

YES Thank you no one else telle you HOW to do it they just say RRLLRRLL you actually tought me! after 20 minutes I almost got is down thank you SO much!!! very good! :)

[LexBravary]

The best technique I trust is what Mike Mangini does. 2:20 is all fingers, barely any wrist. /watch?v=31c-FL0ZlZ0

[scigo]

asshole.

[farawaysoclose001]

There are people around that would argue with Joe Moeller about his technique!!! Listen to two different students that study under Jim Chapin and they will both tell you different ways of using this method!

[ryno6613]

My teacher studied with Moeller and that's more like a flailing velocity stroke. I am not really sure how you call that a Moeller stroke. I don't like to sound cocky and I realize there are many different methods but that technique doesn't even fit the description of the Moeller method.

[hms3001]

hey, not a very good roll. poor stick control, and poor articulation. overall, not a good way to get known through a video.

[okitan101]

thanks good to re-visit this technique .. and geez there are some competitive know it all drummers out there in comment land...

cheers from oz

[StephanieVergnaud]

Allthat moeller is is : WHIP REBOUND & nothing else like whip rebound rebound

[ryder187mac]

Sorry man but this isn't a very good lesson and you look really nervous and stressed, almost like you're about to puke or pass out from being nervous. :/

[SputniksArmy]

So when you do the roll at the speed of 2:57, are you using the method you show at 2:11, or are you physically doing each consecutive stroke?

[adzug]

i hate guys who bitch "thats not moeller!!" "you cud get hurt!!!" i been crawlin round on hands and knees 40 yrs in construction. doing things not always specificly anatomicly /ergomonicly correct. cmon you aint gunna hurt yourself fer crissakes. you take from the technique and do the best you can, stop being nerdazoids. its fine if hes relaxed and keeps good time n control.

[hallunke26]

he's flying

[vdopower66]

good vid thanks for the lesson

[zildjianmusic]

your head phone is not good sound lol, why????????

[uitgsthetroll]

nice video - love the ear defenders

[BachaBachaNinja]

You don't look relaxed. Why do you cover your ears? Do you know what you sound like?

[nandoanalog]

Not to be a douche, but this is actually a fine example of how you shouldn`t play.

[MrGorsky]

You're only 14? That doesn't show at all, not at all.

[ShelterDogs]

LoL, MrGorsky.

[lachlan566]

dude go fucking suck a cock, after all that all u are a little spoilt prick , and probabaly ugly, who thinks he can critise anyone. Well good luck with that buddy. This guy is showing us a technique this isnt some tv show were u judge the persons equipment. It a learning video, and we all learned something. Now go suck of ur little faggy shit marching band.

[will5188]

jersey sucks

[Hillomonster]

not meoller technique but this is a good way to practice double stroke roll . See Jojo Mayer videos and there is a good one bu Jim Chapin on the three stroke Moeller . Nice roll though. Sticking is very high seems like you could go faster if you didn't waste time going back so far , but still..a good roll.

[Solomoreno]

@Hillomonster Thanks for your comments. Let me just say that not "going back so far" would diminish the volume. Sure, any can play excessively fast two inches off of the drum! I was trying to display equal parts speed, control, power and endurance.

[drummerkingmike]

Not moeller at all man. Moeller is all about the motion of the wrist - which you're doing none of in that.

Don't get me wrong, a nice clean sounding roll you've got there... but its just not moeller technique!

[r0ckstar408]

that was awesome

but im in marching badn :C

and we cant go higher

than 6 inches

[burndon1]

Suckkkkks!

[rotor9494]

I'm a NUBE drummer, but is the moeller method similar to the push-pull technique?

[RoshanDrummer]

no, the push pull technique requires your hand to pull the stick up, so doing 2 motions to move the stick.

the moeller however consists out of 1 whipping motion for the first stroke, and the rest comes from rebound.

i suggest watching jojo mayer, he does the moeller the best way possible IMO.

[remedyz0802]

Wizeguy0 is correct, the push pull is the small motion version of the moeller. The moeller technique uses your elbow to pull out accents, and your wrist to play the taps. Push-pull uses your wrist to play the accents, and fingers to play the taps. With both techniques, however, you use rebound as much as possible. Both will feel effortless if done correctly.

[Wizeguy0]

push pull is a very small version of the moeller

[Nbrawler55]

Hey i like this vid.... but im not sure if im doing the double stroke roll the right way.. i find myself almost buzz rolling to do my doubles is that the right way???

[bamfireastound]

buzz rolling is different from double strokes... so, the answer is no it's not right double strokes...

[Pudersepp]

In the beginning you say "don't have hands like this", which is thumbs up and facing palms. You probably knew, but this grip is called the "French grip", and its not forbidden. For example, Billy Cobham uses it a lot. Don Famularo explains technical details of it on Vicfirths educational center or whatever it is called. I play the french as well.

Regards,

Puder

[jlaw666]

dear god i hope puder is your last name

[Pudersepp]

It's not even my name. But in Estonian, Pudersepp means "porridge smith", where puder means porridge.

Regards,

Puder

[freezingfires7]

True, but most marching drum technique is match grip, especially for tenor drums or quads. But most snare drummers use traditional grip.

[pikachano]

Cool!!!! Very nice!!!!

[AntiPirateSquad]

Nice medium paced doubles.... bit too much arm usage considering you mention economy, playing longer...etc...?

However.... you actually didn't demonstrate the Moeller technique at all? the Moeller involves the wrist swivel from one single to the next... looks and feels different to simple doubles, but people can get even more pace with the Moeller.

Incidentally, I don't use the Moeller, but I can get half as fast again as this video because my hands get closer to the head rather than opposite

[uguraykar]

this is a name snep :D

[Rrrrobbo]

hey man hows it goin, ive been playing for about 9 months now, ive managed to develop my double stroke considerably over the past few weeks however, im not sure what my technique would be called, i throw the stick down somewhat, i hold my hands as you do in this, after the first bounce i flick the stick back with my fingers, at higher tempos i have to move my wrists but i cant go that fast i can do 32ths at about 80bpm, what is the difference between the moeller and my finger flick method?!

[Solomoreno]

It's difficult to say without seeing you play. I think I understand what you mean by "finger flick" and I think I do the same thing, i.e. I use my fingers but only up to a certain tempo. Once I really get going though, I simply catch the bounce on my way back up. The trick is, as my drum instructor used to say, getting out of the way of the stick. Are your wrists limber as hell? Are you using your whole arm as I do?

[Rrrrobbo]

cool nice one man my wrists aren't quite limber as hell yet! haha, I use my arms once i get up to my higher speeds that im capable of, but once im there my hands start to feel a bit weird an like im not fully in control, i think it might be cos im still tryin to use my fingers, ill have a go with what you say as i speed up , cheers for the reply!

[iluvperkushun]

@Rrrrobbo yes, you're doing it exactly right. It's called the Tap and Rebound method (i think) while the moeller style of playing doesn't use as much finger, i could be wrong cuz i don't use the moeller method but you throw the stick down for your initial tap and then after letting the stick rebound with the natural responsiveness of the drum you just close your fingers around the back of the stick where your main grip is and it sounds like that's what you're doing. You're on the right track.

[bagsekboy87]

nice one man that speed was evil HAHAHA!!

[wrestlerohio25]

this is my substitute teacher you rock mr cracse

[jacob1nibert]

sup mr crace

[idektron]

nice ear muffs !

[yehboyjor88]

is there an advantage of using this method over the regular one?

[Solomoreno]

I'm not entirely sure what the "regular one" is. The advantage of using the Moeller method and its fundamentals is that you can play harder, faster, and longer with far more deft than the average drummer.

[crissglitch666]

Ok, I have the rebound and I can do a VERY LIGHT roll only. Also, it doesn't feel like im doing it right. How do I get it faster and stronger? Please help.

[Solomoreno]

Stronger? That depends on the strength of the throw, a.k.a. the push. Throw and then squeeze. But, you have to be playing off of the drum. In my experience, the part of the arm that fights the rebound the most is the wrist. Make sure it is not stopping the stick from coming off of the head, i.e. make sure it is not "getting in the way" of the stick, i.e. make sure you are breaking it. I'll be posting some new videos the next couple of weeks. Watch out of them.

[DieNaSty4me]

hey dude are you using a mixture or push pull aka drop catch mixed with moeller?

[Solomoreno]

I'm not familiar with "drop-catch" but it sounds like maybe that is what I am doing.

[AirHendrix91]

I'm still confused on how to push and pull....

[Solomoreno]

Hold the stick loosely in your hand. Once you've come down to make the first stroke, feel the rebound. As soon as you feel the rebound, just squeeze the stick with your hand, PULLING it back up. Repeat, ad infinitum.

[AirHendrix91]

Oh ok, I kinda get it now. Thing is, you repeat that motion twice for each hand right?

And how far should I keep the sticks apart using this method? And how high off the drum should I situate the sticks (where should I keep them in the air off drum)?

Sorry to ask lol but it seems like you know a few things about drumming lol.

Thanks for the video though. If you have a video on how to properly hold sticks, lemme know please hehe.

[Solomoreno]

For each hand? Of course. RRLLRRLL, etc.

Keep the sticks at a 90 degree angle to each other. You can see that around 59 seconds in.

How high off of the drum? If you're just learning the motion, do whatever is comfortable. Not too high, not low...just right, you know?

Your curiousity has inspired me to make some more videos. Look for them in the future! (I'll be sure to cover the grip)

[AirHendrix91]

Thanks man. I'm guessing its the same on the hi-hat as well.

My major qualm in my drum book are 1/4 note triplets.

In exercise 39 in my book, it starts out the first four beats with a two triplets.

The first triplet is normal except that you (I think) put a bass drum between the 2nd and third part of the triplet)

EX: One-Trip-Let.

Between the trip and let, there's a bass drum notation.

How would I even play that? Would the bass be like an "and" part to a rock beat --> 1 and 2 and 3 and 4?

[AirHendrix91]

Sorry if I majorly confused you on that one, its just I teach myself all of this (only had a teacher for two months) but honestly, its awesome to get better at drumming so thanks for the help on the double stroke, I'll definitely try this "Moeller Method" on my kit tomorrow.

[WiredDrummer]

And then the glass behind him shattered in thousand pieces. But seriously, nice double strokes! It's harder than is looks.

[nodamnnameleft12345]

zzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

[Irish614]

I've been thinking, when would you actually ever use this on the drums? During a solo maybe but it's hard to add something like that to a song.

[Solomoreno]

There is always marching band and even symphonic? Beyond that, there are a million exercises that one will likely never employ in a pop setting. But, we do them anyway because they help us generally, with speed or control or building proper technique. When's the last time anybody played flam-a-diddles in a pop song???

[vulture711]

Regardless of what you call it, your video was very helpful as I can't seem to do a double stroke to save my life :-(

[sanshuz]

Dude put on a heater.

[raydalmonster]

I know how to do it and i understand but i just can't do it fast enough. I want to be on the snare line next year on drum line so bad but i wont make it because i can't do double storke rolls fast enough. Is there anything i can do?

[Solomoreno]

If you truly know how to do it, and you understand the technique, then it's simply a matter of practicing. Practice slow, like play 8th notes (LLRRLLRR, 1+2+3+4+) at 120 BPM. Can you do that for two minutes straight without stopping or dropping the technique? Five minutes? I used to practice with a stopwatch to make sure I was staying focused. And never play too far beyond your comfort level or you will develop bad technique.

[Thedaaaa]

so when you really get going its a controlled bounce right?

[Solomoreno]

Yeah! It's interesting though. If one approaches it from the beginning as a "bounce," I don't think that person will ever achieve the extraordinary height or speed.

[Solomoreno]

Oh, I almost forgot. A GREAT exercise is to do paradiddle-diddles starting with your left hand (LRLLRR). The first stroke, the 'L', should be a down stroke. Then play the 'LL' as your coming back up; play the 'LL' as an upstroke. I'll try and post a video of it in the next few days.

[Solomoreno]

The real trick is STARTING every exercise with your left hand. My drum instructor said the ratio should be 3:1, i.e. for every exercise you do, start with your left hand three times more than your right hand. And when you play grooves, try playing the hi-hats with your left hand and snare with your right hand. That will loosen up your left hand quite a bit. You can see me doing that in my "Rockin' in the Free World" video.

[SuperMonkeyNuts]

Great video, although my left hand is alot slower than my right hand and needs to gain speed. I play open grip with my right hand but closed with my left.. Any suggestions?.. Or any exercises?

Also, are double rolls usefull in technical hi-hat patterns? E.g alternating 16th notes to 32nd notes? Thanks

[Solomoreno]

So, you play traditional grip, but you're left-handed? How do you increase speed for your left hand, your dominant hand? Practice really, really slow double-strokes, emphasizing coming off the head and squeezing on that second note. DO NOT SCOOP!

Are double-rolls useful in technical hi-hat patterns? That's up to you my friend. Remember the old adage, "If it sounds right, it is right." Make your own rules!

[SuperMonkeyNuts]

No im a right handed drummer, its just my left hand seems to drag and doesnt match up to the speed of my right. Do you just think practising the good old single strokes or paradiddles to match it up? My left arm seems to tense more in my elbow area when i play faster. But my right arm is smooth and relaxed when i play the same speed as my left.

Ive been practising doubles alot, and am getting better putting them into 16th hi-hat patterns. Thanks for the advice anyway :)

[piano2]

Thanks a lot!!

[ew1951]

I played drums in the late sixties and have to say that this is a great demo/lesson.

Regardless of whatever the method's name may be...it sure pulls a lot of energy from the snare. Excellento.

[Solomoreno]

I wish I could have gotten to play drums in the early sixties! Thank you for your compliments.

[callum0123456]

it is kindoff the moeller method but you miss out a stroke.

the moeller method involves three strokes with each hand doesnt it?

a downward stroke, a tap, and then an upward stroke generated from the wrist?

correct me if im wrong.

[Solomoreno]

Correct...kind of. You're referring to doing triplets with the Moeller method. The third stroke isn't done with the wrist exactly, one uses the whole arm (shoulder, elbow AND wrist). And it's not a stroke per se, it's called a free stroke. Watch my other video and you'll see me doing triplets FAST. Notice the third "stroke" is merely the result of pulling my arm back up.

[callum0123456]

a right thanks!

[cheese463]

this is the velocity stroke not the moeller stroke

[Solomoreno]

Could you elaborate? I'm interested in this velocity stroke.

[duplacite]

I don't know if this is velocity stroke or not but this is definitely not the moeller. Moeller strokes involve moving your forehand down on the 1st stroke and the rest is just fingers, and if you do it right you can do this in midair i.e. no rebounds (this I can't, Jim showed it in his vid somewhere in youtube). All you did was using a German grip though somewhat more relaxed like the way Jim Chapin holds his sticks (and somewhat like mine too hehe).

[MetalMil]

..in no ways, this is moeller..

[TeHKrNBboii]

wow very helpful !! im currently in 8th grade and im preparing for the symphonic band try outs soon, and i cant get the double stroke and flams.. i cant get how u get really fast on double stroke, and all of a sudden ur i the roll part, I CANT DO IT !!! gawd how do u do this ? :]

[Solomoreno]

You see what I'm doing around 2:15? Practice that REALLY SLOW! Make your down stroke and then make the other stroke AS YOUR COMING BACK UP. But don't scoop! Try squeezing your grip a little bit on that upstroke, k?

[dmh200]

doode u hold the sticks like jim chapin lool :P:P random:P

[Solomoreno]

Thanks guys! Sounds like a buzz roll, doesn't it!!! Hahaha...I could still stand to make my hands more symmetric. Comes from making the most embarassing mistake a drummer can make--not doing enough non-dominant-hand-lead exercises:(

[MikeyFlorida]

wow good technique

[billpeart]

very nice, luv moeller its a very practical technique