@miyavimocochang the video was dealing with doing righteousness for the sake of a reward, not working at a job. The point is that one is to serve god even without a heaven existing, but because god is good and worthy. Many other religions miss this point and are religious out of fear of a hell or for a desire of heaven
@mutabrev except Jesus lied. Jesus basically said that it was impossible for a materially wealthy man to be saved, then contradictorily uses Abraham, one if the wealthiest men in the bible, as the saved example with the "Lazarus and the rich man" parable.
Jesus makes this point a lot more concisely and with a lot less fumbling. "It is a easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
I'm gonna answer your question because it brings up a lot of key things in life and you should get an answer also :)
If nobody ever thought, they would get a reward for things, then I think nobody would go to work.
If you have a hard job, you can assume that the workers are only going there to get the money because that is sadly what the world relies on nowadays :( And I don't think many of the people who had hard jobs would go there without pay at the end of the week.
"Without Love of G-d there is no real performance" Tanya perek 4.
If you love a person, you like being with them all the time. So to, by loving hashem all the burdens of torah become our connection with him, serving to deepen this connection, in a way that there is nothing sweeter than learning torah and doing mitzvot. At this level one does torah without thinking about the reward.
This still seems like you are being forced to love God (as well as your neighbor) out of fear. I trust the Atheist who has found that love is a good thing on his own without having any fear involved...just pure real love. If you have known or do know many Atheists, I think you would see they are capable of truly loving their neighbor just as you are even though they do not believe in God as you do.
Also, many people who "fear God" do terrible things. So, in reality fearing God only takes you so far. Like I said, many people who truly do not see evidence of a God, or atleast no evidence of one as you perceive him, live lives with very strict moral standards. And many times they live with more morality than people who are God fearing. Do you honestly think you do more good things in this world than any Atheist who has ever lived? If so, that is a very arrogant outlook...
Also, you said not to serve for a reward. There are many Atheists who do good things (volunteering, giving charity, etc.) without wanting a reward. You do not have to believe in God to love your neighbor. If you think this is the case, you do not know many Atheists.
I don't think you should make a claim of what Atheists are like. Just like all Jews are not the same, all Atheists are not the same. Some Atheists share many of the same values that you have. They are not "choosing" to be Atheists just so they can do things you consider wrong or bad. Some of the most peaceful, loving, and charitable people in the world have been Atheist, agnostic, etc.
With all due respect to those who "know" there is no G-d as I choose to define him - there is a huge difference between people who love their brothers as themselves because their own limited human intellect tells them it is right versus people who do it because they are commanded to do it by a supreme being.
In the first case, if you intellect tells you that there is an exception, you are free to not love a certain person because your own intellect has told you it's okay not to listen to this
are mayn good people who live good lives and claim not to believe in G-d.
But I would never count on their goodness. It is only based on their own limited understanding of the world and also their moods and emotions at the time they are making their decisions.
While G-d fearing person understands that he must obey G-d's will no matter what his emotions tell him.
This seems to be defeating the whole message of your video. You only count on someone's goodness if they are fearful of God. That is basically the same thing as serving for a reward -- serving out of fear, avoiding punishment, etc. I wouldn't respect anyone who only does good because they are God fearing as you say. I think it's more admirable to do good things on what you say is limited human intellect rather than doing things because they are commanded to do so.
To each their own, my friend. What makes the human experience so wonderful is that there are 6.3 billion people each with their own little version of reality.
As long as you let me practice what I want and don't harm me, I am okay with you.
And I will grant you the same courtesy.
We don't have to agree on everything - this is not the point of life.
I agree. I just hope you don't make these broad judgments on all Atheists. Some people think all Jews are this or that, and I am sure you would like them to be less ignorant. I simply would hope that you would apply those same principles of non-stereotyping to non believers. Like you said, we don't have to agree on everything. However, I hope you will reconsider your generalizations of Atheists.
The way that you seem to view humans with this limited understanding of the world is interesting. Remember you are a human as well. Therefore, you are just as likely to be at fault as the next person. Maybe since your thinking is very limited, your brain perceives that there must be a God when in fact maybe there is not. You said in one of your videos that this guy should not be arrogant with his beliefs. But, I think your judgment of Atheists is very arrogant and disappointing.
Thank you so much for the Torah insights you on behalf of Hashem. May you continue being a vessel for Adonai Baruch Hashem
TheTigerOnitsuka 1 month ago
I am a Jewish American...I want to live in a society where people live for the BETTERING of the COMMUNITY.
leftwingersunited 2 months ago
@miyavimocochang the video was dealing with doing righteousness for the sake of a reward, not working at a job. The point is that one is to serve god even without a heaven existing, but because god is good and worthy. Many other religions miss this point and are religious out of fear of a hell or for a desire of heaven
pianokid100 10 months ago
@mutabrev except Jesus lied. Jesus basically said that it was impossible for a materially wealthy man to be saved, then contradictorily uses Abraham, one if the wealthiest men in the bible, as the saved example with the "Lazarus and the rich man" parable.
pianokid100 10 months ago
Jesus makes this point a lot more concisely and with a lot less fumbling. "It is a easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."
mutabrev 1 year ago
wow, thank you very much
planettyler 1 year ago
Thanks!
yeshuateaching 2 years ago
ronnen, i replayed the last 20 seconds of this video about 8 times. not even the nail could be as sharp as this when being hit on the head.
betruedotorg 2 years ago
Ronen-
I'm gonna answer your question because it brings up a lot of key things in life and you should get an answer also :)
If nobody ever thought, they would get a reward for things, then I think nobody would go to work.
If you have a hard job, you can assume that the workers are only going there to get the money because that is sadly what the world relies on nowadays :( And I don't think many of the people who had hard jobs would go there without pay at the end of the week.
Shalom brother...
MiYaViMocoChang 2 years ago
"Without Love of G-d there is no real performance" Tanya perek 4.
If you love a person, you like being with them all the time. So to, by loving hashem all the burdens of torah become our connection with him, serving to deepen this connection, in a way that there is nothing sweeter than learning torah and doing mitzvot. At this level one does torah without thinking about the reward.
matisyahup613 3 years ago
The title of the video should just be changed from "Don't serve for a reward" to "Serve out of fear"
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
Although fear of g-d is a great starting point, one must eventually nurture a real love of G-d as well.
If you only have one, it is incomplete.
ronennachman770 3 years ago 2
This still seems like you are being forced to love God (as well as your neighbor) out of fear. I trust the Atheist who has found that love is a good thing on his own without having any fear involved...just pure real love. If you have known or do know many Atheists, I think you would see they are capable of truly loving their neighbor just as you are even though they do not believe in God as you do.
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
Also, many people who "fear God" do terrible things. So, in reality fearing God only takes you so far. Like I said, many people who truly do not see evidence of a God, or atleast no evidence of one as you perceive him, live lives with very strict moral standards. And many times they live with more morality than people who are God fearing. Do you honestly think you do more good things in this world than any Atheist who has ever lived? If so, that is a very arrogant outlook...
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
Also, you said not to serve for a reward. There are many Atheists who do good things (volunteering, giving charity, etc.) without wanting a reward. You do not have to believe in God to love your neighbor. If you think this is the case, you do not know many Atheists.
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
I don't think you should make a claim of what Atheists are like. Just like all Jews are not the same, all Atheists are not the same. Some Atheists share many of the same values that you have. They are not "choosing" to be Atheists just so they can do things you consider wrong or bad. Some of the most peaceful, loving, and charitable people in the world have been Atheist, agnostic, etc.
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
With all due respect to those who "know" there is no G-d as I choose to define him - there is a huge difference between people who love their brothers as themselves because their own limited human intellect tells them it is right versus people who do it because they are commanded to do it by a supreme being.
In the first case, if you intellect tells you that there is an exception, you are free to not love a certain person because your own intellect has told you it's okay not to listen to this
ronennachman770 3 years ago
dictum in this case.
However in the second case, a person is forced to listen at all times and in all places even if his own limited intellect tells him otherwise.
This creates continuity in your sevice in which you are not permitted to falter.
If you live by your own intellect, you are free to go back and forth forever.
If you accept that this is G-d's world and He is free to command you as He sees fit, then you will be consistent.
This is a great difference.
Granted, there
ronennachman770 3 years ago
are mayn good people who live good lives and claim not to believe in G-d.
But I would never count on their goodness. It is only based on their own limited understanding of the world and also their moods and emotions at the time they are making their decisions.
While G-d fearing person understands that he must obey G-d's will no matter what his emotions tell him.
So I don't think this is a fair comparison.
ronennachman770 3 years ago
This seems to be defeating the whole message of your video. You only count on someone's goodness if they are fearful of God. That is basically the same thing as serving for a reward -- serving out of fear, avoiding punishment, etc. I wouldn't respect anyone who only does good because they are God fearing as you say. I think it's more admirable to do good things on what you say is limited human intellect rather than doing things because they are commanded to do so.
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
To each their own, my friend. What makes the human experience so wonderful is that there are 6.3 billion people each with their own little version of reality.
As long as you let me practice what I want and don't harm me, I am okay with you.
And I will grant you the same courtesy.
We don't have to agree on everything - this is not the point of life.
Live and let live, my friend.
ronennachman770 3 years ago
I agree. I just hope you don't make these broad judgments on all Atheists. Some people think all Jews are this or that, and I am sure you would like them to be less ignorant. I simply would hope that you would apply those same principles of non-stereotyping to non believers. Like you said, we don't have to agree on everything. However, I hope you will reconsider your generalizations of Atheists.
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago
The way that you seem to view humans with this limited understanding of the world is interesting. Remember you are a human as well. Therefore, you are just as likely to be at fault as the next person. Maybe since your thinking is very limited, your brain perceives that there must be a God when in fact maybe there is not. You said in one of your videos that this guy should not be arrogant with his beliefs. But, I think your judgment of Atheists is very arrogant and disappointing.
thedefendingchamp 3 years ago