American Atheists Update 01-11-08

[drjackflash]

The comments on this site are laughable. You don't take the constitiution to task, you twist it to suit your needs. So people running for government don't pander to atheists, who cares. If you had enough people to leverage the vote then they would. It would come down to numbers. I love how atheists bring religion into it. If politicians want to be Christian, that is their right. You are in the minority so you do not have as strong of a political voice. Live with it.

[1tabligh]

How can the atheists delude themselve and believe that hydrogen and oxygen, electrons and protons, should first produce themselves, then be the source for all other beings, and finally decree the laws that regulate themselves and the rest of the material world?

[mihaicosmos]

why was she removed from office???

[xMiamiMichael]

I abhor the fact that theist truly believe our democracy is a theocracy. Pft, like we could have stayed an affluent and potent nation if one of those bozos were running the country with their religious agendas. Please.

Thank you separation of church and state. =D

[thursdaysrecords]

Evil people don't live by the g0lden rule. Chronic malcontents (are you one?) don't enjoy life.

Perhaps I speak for people like me, who are filled with joy and who are happy to be alive. I'm also unafraid of death, so I am content with my one life, not expecting more.

The offer of make believe and fantasy and false hopes pinned on "faith" doesn't help me. Does it help you? Good! You are the angry one, the complainer. I already am in heaven, you are in Fantasyland for Complainers. Enjoy!

[kwil46]

thursdaysrecords :

Ive notice so many of your comments and you always complain and seem so angry at people of faith.And then you say we are the angry ones! We arent. You believe you came from nothing-are nothing-and return to nothing.Enjoy this nothingness and relax.

[Xsanoid]

If America becomes a christian nation then I am fucking moving to Britain.

[rj53rbx]

isn't it already a christian nation???

Britain is a nice country i think so myself. atheism community is growing there. but other north european countries are dominant atheistic: France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Czech Republic, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland. :) also to be considered. ;) free from religious facist nutjobs.

[sputnikowns]

It was not established as Christian nation

It's not a Christian nation.

[micp4130]

"It was not established as Christian nation"

true

"It's not a Christian nation"

when presidential candidates have to go to churches in their campaign, have to be sure not to say anything that might offend Christians and are pretty much unable to pass laws that are against Christianity, then i'd say it's a Christian country...

[sputnikowns]

The constitution says that it has never been, and will never be an officially Christian nation.

The majority of the population is Christian, but that number is dramatically falling in exchange of 'nonreligious' people.

[micp4130]

well call it a breach of the constitution then, i don't like it either, but as you say there is a rapid growth of non-religious people, which i can only see as a sign of sanity...

[n800064447]

I've been thinking about this, and when I hear the media say 'this is a christian nation!' and oppose of any president that is not of christian faith (for said reason), then I think...well, what makes it a christian country? Surely not on the grounds of its establishment (constitution, etc), but on the majority being christian....but by that same logic, it is also a white nation, and shouldn't they outwardly oppose any president who is not white?

[micp4130]

i can only agree with you, formally the US is not, never has been or will be, a christian nation, unfortunately that's not the way it works in reality and let me remind you that many people were outraged that obama ran for president... the fact that he was elected is a very good sign that at least the majority of the country is somewhat rational, but the fact is that people have a tendency to be against everything that is different from themselves... (to be continued)

[micp4130]

(continued)... combined with the fact that very few black people vote and that many rich white do vote, makes the results of votings very unrepresentative of what the population actually wants... the reason why obama did win was because he managed to get many people who normally wouldn't vote to vote, thus making the result a little more balanced (but still it could've a lot better)...

on top of this issue there is the whole issue of lobbyists making the whole process even worse...

[SpEcIaLtOtHeLoRd]

Let me be honest with you atheists if you don't repent of your sin and accept Christ, I'm sorry to say but you're going to burn in hell. Yeah i know is sad, and yes i'm trying to scare you so repent and stop being so willingly ignorant, you well know there's intelligent desing in this world and universe. Follow the Rules ;)

[rationalway]

RETARD ALERT!

[SamTay04]

rationalway:

"RETARD ALERT!"

Lmao. That episode with Dawkins in it was one of my favorites.

[rationalway]

What episode?

[SamTay04]

Ah, my bad. I though your comment was taken from one of the episodes of South Park about atheism and Richard Dawkins.

[rationalway]

Hmmm, you mean that animated seriers for nitwits on... whatever channel!

[SamTay04]

Yep.

[nolobede]

Wow, what a fucking moron. The ignorance is yours my friend, and I'd bet you're here because deep down you know how fucked up your religion is. We fear nothing of your fairy tale god you sad lost lemming

[MMAGRO1]

Haha, this must be a joke.

[simponsucks201]

fuck your hippie god!

[pelnobacon]

i don't believe you

because it obviously doesn't make sense

[DAI3792]

atheism rules!

[RamblingHermit]

Wollinder92 if there is a hell, your well on your way getting there.

[ConservativeAtheist]

I sure hope that this woman isnt as nasty and mean spirited as the former leader of this group.

[gettyman1]

Wollinder92  F. U. moron

[BigMoose1972]

awesome!! thanks for posting this!!!

[onetocome]

God is the ultimate authority, not man and every word he says goes.

[fsroor]

shut up u asshole ....

[LittleTruckingBozo]

Can you prove god? can you prove your claim about god. No you can not. So you are claiming what you want to be true not what is.

[onetocome]

The power of God is in his words. What good is proof if you don't believe the words. Even if you saw a miracle, the words are still going to be the same. Prove of God will not change your heart and that's all God cares about. But you are blind, just like the bible says. Ask and seek and you will find the answer you are looking for.

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"The power of God is in his words."

Murder, death, kill, suffering. Good words. God may realy be the Satan "What good is proof if you don't believe the words."

Well if I had proof I would believe his word. Kinda obvious don't you think?

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"Even if you saw a miracle, the words are still going to be the same. Prove of God will not change your heart and that's all God cares about."

Well ya a miracale can be a trick but if god did sent a agel trust me I would not question if there is a good just if god is worthy of worship. And the god of the bible is not.

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"But you are blind, just like the bible says."

No I'm just not delusional. The quran and almost all religions make the same claim. Should I convert to become a Islam because it says its the word? A book saying it the word of god is meaningless. Its really funny how god put so much effort in to hiding from man the gives us a book that says I am real. Something a little fishy about that.

[silenceofthelamb]

you mean to become a muslim, right?

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"Ask and seek and you will find the answer you are looking for."

I did. God said your wrong :) but hay seeing that god made such claims as a world wide flood and it never happened One can deduct from that ether the bible is not the word of god or there is no god. Take yout pick.

[kram35]

lol. owned

[gettyman1]

Poor blind brain washed sheep

[silenceofthelamb]

who are you calling brain washed sheep?

[LittleTruckingBozo]

"who are you calling brain washed sheep?"

The guy fucking the sheep.

[gettyman1]

Wollinder92 is the sheep I was speaking of silenceofthelamb

[onetocome]

I can assure you lady, that if God was in control, jails would not be full of repeated offenders. Lady God knows more than you. It's a shame that you put so much effort into nothing.

[speller50]

For some reason, this makes me think that this is a mission briefing from Command&Conquer 1

But ofcourse, the bible will be used as a positive influence on their political campaign. I am Catholic, and I agree. Religion has caused fucked up things to happen, I put fact before religion.

[a7xfan285]

i would love to see an atheist president of the USA one day...... eh, why would i care i'm not american lol

[yoda9931]

damn canadian ;p

[yoda9931]

damn canadian ;p

[a7xfan285]

i aint canadian either ;P

[dtoabid]

I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made & why it was upset.

[CASSMAN777]

The thing people don't realize is that sep of church and state prevents us from expressing our faith freely. The government tells us we can't have the ten commandments in public. Thats a violation because they're prohibiting the free excercise of Christianity. Also atheists define imposing religion by seeing someone w/ a sign that says, "Jesus loves you." Its impossible to appease atheists demand for sep of church and state until Christianity is banned.

[pirbird14]

The thing that you don't realize is that the establishment clause applies only to governments and government institutions, to prevent the development of state-sponsored religion.

No atheist has ever defined "imposing religion" the way you claim. You, as an individual, do not have the power to impose your beliefs on me. The government does.

[CASSMAN777]

Actually many crazy atheists complain about stupid stuff like the pleedge of the allegiance. How is the governemnt imposing a Christianity over other religions?

[pirbird14]

Yes, the pledge of allegiance is pretty stupid. Loyalty isn't something you can command into existence.

Currently, your government is not imposing any religion on anybody. And atheists aim to keep it that way.

[koolcamdaman]

Under God was not in the original pledge of Allegiance. It was later added!!! Just another example of Christians injecting their beliefs into our government.

The pledge of allegiance should never have been changed.

[CASSMAN777]

The pledge of allegiance added "under God," during the cold war because the atheists were viewed as communists. Decideds I don't think saying under God is going to kill you anyway.

[hpdh1299]

I think you have to sware on the Christian Holy (Bible) when you testify in court.

[CASSMAN777]

"I think you have to sware on the Christian Holy (Bible) when you testify in court."

Whats wrong w/that?

[fsroor]

jeez u guys should stop having easter holidays and stop doing prayers in shcools ...

[stevebritgimp]

Yes, money is the bottom line. Question is, who should get it and what does it get spent on? Also it's important to work on all fronts. Atheists are needing in the Republican party, pro-Israel and anti-Israel atheists are needed. At least in America you have fear to motivate you. You should be very afraid of the religious power in America. It's like the slave power which was broken in the 19th century. You need to spend the 21st century breaking this power.

[Jarezev]

All that sounds good. But you need to organize in a smarter way. You need money so that you could have any political significance. The Jews have it (I don't wan't to generalize, but let's get real), and they all wan't to keep Israel on the world map. So try to work together with rich universities, who want to teach science in classrooms, large companies who could benefit from stemcell research and then of cource any regular American who thinks their country is going down the toilet.

[martynblackburn1977]

Treaty of Tripoli, anyone?!

[rarelyserious]

Yeah, any half-wit christian would know that democracy just doesn't sound like ANY part of the bible. The only reason "fundies" argue that America was a christian nation, is so they can "take back america". It sure fires people up when they think they're being stolen from! Otherwise they can't "take back" what was never theirs. The founding fathers loved the christian killing romans and the greeks. Look at the national monuments...greek and roman. Democracy is greek.

[Mordel007]

Question: How many of you have ever stood up and defend this country with you your blood, sweat and tears? How many of you have ever seen the Real World? How many of you know what is really going on in this world? I don't agree with you, but I and thousands of others like me fought for your rights to say what you want, just remember either love this country or leave it

[rarelyserious]

I have stood up to defend this country. I am an atheist. Yup, if you don't like the SECULAR principles America was founded on...I concurr...leave it!

[notempathetic]

Would you agree that part of loving the country, is voicing your concern when people begin to do foolish things.

[chbrules]

If you believe as such you are a disgrace in the eyes of the founding fathers. Never give in to your government in whole or part, never place your trust in government, and never think you should respect your government when you disagree with their views. The government is to serve the people, not the people it.

The founding fathers were either majorantly diest or pre-nonreligious (see BBC 'a brief history of disbelief'). The US is not a christian nation in any way.

[seathanaich]

Mordel, what does any of what you are talking about have to do with religious belief? Almost all American atheists were born in the USA. Within a century, they will outnumber American Christians given current shifts towards atheism. It appears that you do not understand that atheism is merely the rejection of belief in gods. Perhaps you should read your nation's constitution, and discover that it was NOT founded upon any religion, let alone Christianity.

[JohnBach]

The message here is pretty good -- and frankly, Ellen, I think you're absolutely stunning.

I don't want my tax $ going to any church. I don't support publicly funded religion -- and I doubt the Christians would care for theirs going to competing religious organizations.

[StormOfSerenity]

As a Christian I believe in seperation of church and state but Ellen's statement: "vote you atheism first" is hypocracy in its purist form.

[radiofreak56]

i think she meant for us to vote for the seperation of church and state first and not for those candidates based only on religon and dogma

[JohnBach]

Isn't that what Christians did when they voted Bush in? You can't ignore that Evangelicals came out in droves for him.

Why shouldn't I choose a candidate that is sympathetic to secular philosophies?

[martynblackburn1977]

Why is it? And isn`t it hypocritical for a Christian to say anything against hypocrisy? Have you not read about the Church`s corrupt history?

[StormOfSerenity]

JohnBach, I am not too familiar with the politics in your country but I know that as a Christian I would have never voted for Bush.

[StormOfSerenity]

martynblackburn, unfortunately humans will be humans regardless of what banner they hold in the air. Should I claim that the constitution of America is to blame for the countless people who get murdered or raped in America every year in that country?

[StormOfSerenity]

Should I judge all Americans for the slaughter of countless American Indians? Should I hold the view that all Americans supported the nuclear testing which exposed many innocent people to a lethal dose of radiation.

[StormOfSerenity]

Should I judge all atheist for the fact that the greatest atrocities that have been committed in the last century have been by atheist regimes?

[seathanaich]

Storm - give some evidence that anyone has ever killed anyone else IN THE NAME of atheism. You will be unable to do so, because it has never happened. Counting the crimes committed IN THE NAME of totalitarianism, fascism, communism, nationalism, or racism as if they are CAUSED by atheism is both not true and not accurate. The killings for these causes were, of course, almost completely carried out by practicing theists.

[martynblackburn1977]

Should you and how do you know? Do you have certain knowledge?

[StormOfSerenity]

seathanaich said: "give some evidence that anyone has ever killed anyone else IN THE NAME of atheism"

If you know anything about countries like the Soviet Union, China & Cambodia you would know that religion was severely persecuted under Stalin, Mao & Pol Pot; by their actions it was obvious they had an anti-religious agenda.

[StormOfSerenity]

As far as one announcing the reason why they are committing certain crimes is irrelevant at then end of the day, because actions speak louder than words. If I kill another human being and claim that I am doing it in your name, how does it make that relevant when you have not instructed me to do so?

[StormOfSerenity]

seathanaich said: "The killings for these causes were, of course, almost completely carried out by practicing theists."

What on earth are you talking about?

[martynblackburn1977]

Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot were ideologists not atheists. They were anti-religious because it interefered with their ideology. That is wholly different. Many Christian makes this fallacious argument that Pol Pot and the others killed in the name of atheism. This is incorrect. The agenda that they (Pol Pot, etc) had was an ideological one not a simple lack of belief in God or gods.

[StormOfSerenity]

martyn, I dont't deny for a moment that these men and their supporters were ideologist; but you cannot deny that their ideology sprang from an atheistic worldview. Their motives were purely secular and completely void of any moral restraint or divine moral law that would interfere with their own agenda.

[StormOfSerenity]

Stalin's regime murdered 20 million (66.7 million under the Soviets if we include Lenin and Krushchev), 35 Million were killed under Mao, and Pol Pot wiped out a third of his nation. They persecuted those who dared to worship God while these rulers put themselves and the state in the seat of the divine. They ruled their nations as if they were answerable to no higher authority but their own.

[StormOfSerenity]

I am not claiming that all atheist regimes would end up like this but it easy to see how an ideology like this can sprout out from such a worldview. As one well known pacifist and Quaker once said "If men will not be governed by God, then they must be governed by tyrants." - William Penn

[martynblackburn1977]

God is a tyrant - Mikhail Bakunnin.

[martynblackburn1977]

You`re 100 wrong. The abolition of religion by Pol pot and the other was purely secondary to the cause. They understood that religion leads the masses to mob rule and the preists end up rich and unhappiness ensues. Just read Carl Marx. It was secondary to the cause and the cause was political.

[mysticgohan3000]

I can assure you atheism and communism have nothing in common. However communism could be confused with religion much of the time. Those dictators acted like your God: "You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me." In a few words: "Believe in me, do as I say or be punished severely". You see, religious people doomed themselves.

[mysticgohan3000]

If by moral restraints you mean we need the promise of reward in paradise or eternal suffering in hell, I think you have no morals at all. You're just a scared animal that knows his master will punish him if he doesn't show obedience. Simple logic tells us that we must be nice to others if we don't want the world to become a mess. We live and let others live.  An atheist would probably respect democracy, scientific research, personal freedoms, etc., unlike religious presidents.

[mysticgohan3000]

And we, atheists, are clever enough to know that it is cruel to drown mankind for misbehaving, to command lapidation for adulterers and homosexuals, to send someone to eternal suffering just because they won't love you above all, to be all loving and omnipotent and never showing yourself for just the fun of it, for creating a tree and putting it in mankind's reach just so it would sin, etc. It really isn't difficult.

[peterscottfrost]

Voting your atheism first is all well and good, but I think voting for noninterventionism is a more pressing issue. It bothers me that a person cannot be considered a viable candidate for president in this country unless one is religious. Christian, to be specific. But there are other matters which are more urgent. Atheism will take hold over time. The truth always wins out in the end. But if we don't end our warmongering ways, we might not survive to see that day.

[peterscottfrost]

I support Ron Paul. Despite his personal religious views, he has given every indication that he would not impose his religious or other personal views on the nation. I think atheists are best served by the most libertarian president we can get. That would be Ron Paul.

[peterscottfrost]

By the way, George H. Smith, atheist and author of "Atheism -- The Case Against God" endorsed Ron Paul.

[converse02]

Go Ellen!

[Radioflyer3]

Of course, atheism is not an unhealthy obsession with the differing beliefs, heritage and culture of others. If this is a perception, that is unfortunate. It is regrettable that the thought of applying the same standard of reason that we use in every other area of our lives to widely held beliefs about the supernatural is fearful to so many. Doing so does not speak to history, much less diminish it in any way.

[Radioflyer3]

(continued)

Poseidon meant as much (and was just as real) to his adherents as the many different gods of today mean to theirs. Knowledge is cumulative. I don't know how long it will take, but it is reassuring to know that those with beliefs in the supernatural, unsupported by evidence, will eventually take their rightful place at the margins of society.

[teddy55555a]

What would be reassuring to me is when some would grow in wisdom to the point of being able understand that by its very definition, the supra natural would elude the empirical .

From the beginning ,mankind has pondered the ontological, which is arguably one of the biggest reasons for the strides in intellectual advancements to mankind.

[teddy55555a]

(continued) The ineffable will always remain elusive yet valid and true.

And if you mean by : "rightful place at the margins of society." I sure hope its not the mass graves of your atheist predecessors

[suttsteve]

We need another JFK.

[teddy55555a]

Atheist people scare me . How rational, is an unhealthy obsession of the differing beliefs ,heritage and culture of others? Dishonestly ,portaying JFK as a proponent of antireligion when his personal belief was an issue for election then castigating the empowerment and representation of protestants politics then imediately suggesting that atheists vote their atheism make for one obsessed hypocrite.

[teddy55555a]

Do christians ever run campaigns based solely on the abridging or censorship of atheists ? How safe must the world be from nativity scenes and commandment plaques? How safe has the world ever been with atheist zealots operating from their materialistic and physicalistic bias ? Well the world has gotten a taste of it .Atheists and their attempts to purge the rest of us .

[Signofthedollar]

I think teddy5555a would be happier in Iran! Why don't you go there now and bray to mecca!

[teddy55555a]

Mecca is in Saudi Arabia .Education is good:)

[dfarmer1584]

one can "pray to Mecca," you idiot, teddy5555a, from anywhere--a billion people do it several times a day.

You are a fool.

[kurdatheist]

True.... but they do pray to Mecca..facing Mecca...

[Radioflyer3]

Religious people scare me. If they can believe fantasy of grotesque proportion one day a week, they can believe anything. I'd vote for a black, lesbian, atheist president to knock some reason into this country. Enough with the old, protestant white dudes already.

[MasterMark123]

hey folks the new background is more up to date but the ever turning atom detracts from her speaking .. it needs to be stationary if at all

[AJOAndre1]

New Background? Cool!

[jeffnindo]

I dont know if most people in the US are in fact Christians or if they merely feel the pressure to declare as such. They do indeed have the right to vote and voting is key to democracy. The problem is that people arent focusing on things like science education and critical thinking.. things that will make the US competitive in the global market place and will improve the quality of life of all people. As I've always felt.. censorship, in all of its forms, offends me.

[teddy55555a]

47 views ? lol. A majority of people in America are Christian and have faith . They have a right to vote . They have a right to vote for someone that represents them . Thats democracy . Maybe you should focus on empowering yourselves as opposed to censoring or abridging the beliefs and rights of others ?

[Explitiv3]

As if the only choice's in life are christianity or atheism. Lol, according to all recent polls the rising concensus among Americans is atheism, look around on youtube and count them. No one said that people do not have a right to vote, thats your (christian) fantasy.

[Explitiv3]

It was christianity that attempted to keep science out of schools (scopes trial) and the belief of the boogyman as fact. You demand respect; however, you offer none to those who disagrees with your twisted worldview. Talk about treating others as chirst would, you hypocrite.

[teddy55555a]

Without the people that believed in God ,there would be no reputable science -

Max Planck ,Nicholas Copernicus ,Sir Francis Bacon ,Johannes Kepler ,Galileo Galilei

Rene Descartes ,Isaac Newton ,Robert Boyle Michael Faraday ,Gregor Mendel,William Thomson Kelvin .

RESPECT is earned, not inappropriately demanded by zealots with low self esteem.

[KT45]

She didn't talk about taking away people's rights to vote based on their beliefs. She talked about the candidates and past presidents beliefs with the idea of separation of church and state. She also did talk about self empowerment my choosing who you vote for that agrees with the principles of separation of church and state.