Bruce Golding came to Tivoli Gardens as an opportunist. He found it to be a harvest of votes. They elected him and that was all they were needed for. Used and rejected. His Judgment Day is at hand.
@Killayut - the problem is they won't go to West AFrica... when Marcus Garvey tried to make it happen... most wouldn't follow and they won't now. They prefer to live in a white man's country regardless of all the "proud to be black talk". I know a few people who have moved to Africa (even a cousin who studied in Canada)... and they love it. They are very much a minority though.
In the smallest of Countries & Nations go to war amongst themselves.
But don't forget this all started because the U.S.A. wanted Christopher Coke for charges of illegal Weapons, Drugs & Murder. This is the U.S.A. on the War on Drugs.
Mexico is have the same problem as we had in May but are still going after the Cartel nearly a full year compare to our 2 Month unrest. Jamaica is a bridge to the U.S. for Drugs so they have to put their interest on the Island in order to fight THE WAR ON DRUGS.
any of you because for years all you people down there do is aid and abet crime, in Tivoli Gardens. Bruce I applaud you for your action it is high times now that someone in leadership positions to start lead, crime is ruining us as a people, we were once the leader in educating of our people in the 80s, in all the Caribbean, look at where we are today, the liberal attitude is what is killing our people. Bruce don't stop there you need to clean the whole place up and restore law and order.
I can never be sorry for no one down there they all know about the amount a guns that are in Garden, I lived there so I can talk. That woman say to be poor is a crime that is true, it can also be said to be dunce is also a crime two, the extortion that goes in around via Dudus orders so much man dead under his order, I can go on and on, but Jamaican who live in these communities must realize that the don does not live among you but rule from his posh mansion on the hills... I am not sorry for
Christopher Coke to my understanding as been extradited in relation to 40 pounds of cannabis and four firearms - "yuh really afi laugh bout bad tings" - i utterly believe the U.S. is trying to implicate dudus in relation to 1400 murders or more where in which happened during the 1980's (both respectively Jim Brown and Vivian Blake's era)
@JamRoca , It seem to be past Vendetta to the 80's era, coupled with current events that were planned to maintain destabilization in Jamaica. Jamaica was very close to being pardon for debts etc by the IMF and that would improve the economy. If U.S paint Jamaica as a non-compliant problem country with a leader who's connected to a drug lord the world will look down on Jamaica as US create sanctions to ruin it...Jamaica is small, but dominant on D world stage.from olympics, music to resorts
@JamRoca , so outside of this oil allegation that's been floating around there are many reasons for the hype regarding Dudus. The U.S is about winning, they don't like to be upstage on anything :) Did you hear the U.S girl at the olympics saying that "someone had a voodoo doll on them", implying that the Jamaican athletes were using voodoo to win races!! U.S does nothing by the book, but force other nations to...those dopers couldn't dope anymore due to new regulation, so they started losing
@Caribbeanprincess1 Political activist Abbie Hoffman quoted "To steal from a brother or sister is evil. To not steal from the institutions that are the pillars of the Pig Empire is equally immoral" - America's government is absolutely warped in smoke and mirror - further undertaking empire esque attributes - clothed as peace, freedom and democracy - whilst, unwittingly divine and conquer - to be totally absolutely objective - America is apparently willing to hold the world at ransom...
@JamRoca trust me, I totally understood, even prior to your correction. I know that sometimes when we are trying to get out our thoughts "the fingers sometimes type way faster and we end up with Typo's.... I don't weigh heavily on those errors....
@JamRoca , I was away from youtube for a minute:) I absolutely agree with your post above. i.e. America is willing to hold the world at ransom!!! Good analogy and observation....
Nuffa these woman who crying and preaching bout cops mash them up.... Most a them man, boyfriend, husband and brother a badman inna town who is holding big machine gun and a gwaan like them innocent. Police fi kill off the whole a them pussyclaat. Tired aTivoli and them garbage dump town. Them is just like Jews who kill and rape off people and then gwaan like innocent citezens. Fire fi dem. I hope this is the last of ShowerPosse. Dudus is the last of dem deh. Go plant corn and stop depend.
there is no doubt he is a intelligent man. Like countless other
intelligent young Jamaicans with promising potentials and intentions
thru various circumstances only to fall prey to political polarizations, criminality, the gun, revenge against rogue police and bad man, and been the fall guy.
We need a state of emergency against the conditions that lead to these outcomes
Talking is one this. Many people learn they lesson as time pass and the get old. But i young time them man don't want to hear no reason. Just shoot and rob first. Farrin catch up with them and now them is citezen's of Jamaica and want preach out gainst police. when them have every chance fi come a farrin and make use of themselve's. Nooooo- Them don't waa do that, Them prefer the gun. Now the ship back and a gwaan like say them a victem? whappn to the people hunnu kill off?
@mikeygeneral , usually the ppl who get killed in drug related activity are ALL in the same game, it's just that the survivor gets deported or face punishment etc.i"m not supporting criminal activities, but most often the Jamaican guys who get caught up in the drug trade in the usa don't have the proper papers to get a legitimate job and INS makes it hard!! it's not always about persons who lack ambition,but rather persons who want to survive and get caught in kill or be killed situations.
I know the INS well and that's crap. even if you come here on a visitors visa, You can apply for the 134A to work and pay taxes without even having a SS# ( Unless your'e talking about a person who is illegal).These people come from extreme poverty (No Problem- Shit happens) - Red eye want everything NOW like the people they admire. So they rush to go sell drugs and make fast money. Please can you save me the bolony? I don't feel sorry fi none a them a bloodclaat.
@mikeygeneral , from what you've stated, you know NOTHING about the INS. My aunt worked as an immigration officer at a NY location for years. I came here legally as a teenager, filed for by an American Dad & a Jamaican mom and I had an issue to sort out years later and the Agents in B'more gave me all WRONG info & references. It was this Aunt that I'd hardly known who visited at a family gathering who later refer to the proper forms "inside info"...It's 10 more complicated for illegals.
@mikeygeneral , And...no where did I restrict my statement to "visitors"...most ppl who get visitors visa are not in dire need for a so-called better life, they can afford to travel or leisure and are treated with more dignity. My concern is for the people who try all means to get away from Jamaica to make a better life for their families. You're the one talking pure CRAP!! You're a selfish fallacious being. so it's RED EYE? to want a better life? where the hell does your logic come from?
It's not red eye to want a better life heediot. ITS HOW YOU GO BY IT. I said sell drugs. Stop making excuses for Jamaican criminals. These are dutty people....... Hold on. I just thought about it. I may just be dealing with one myself here. Look how much fucking people a dead? and you still a make excuse for these people. You know what, I would appreciate if you don't even reply back to me. Please don't. Not even with a last comment. Just forword on.
@mikeygeneral ,. I don't have to defend my stance to you! anyone reading both of our comments can clearly tell who's a "heediot", according to you. Those ppl in TG were killed by those who are being paid to protect them, not so-called criminals. You need to forward your ass on to a cave, you're a hateful man!! Who are killing the F..king ppl??? hmm? you're making NO SENSE!!! so the PM and other rich folks are doing any better by killing and exploiting the poor? you lack logic
@jack3finger the things that you've observed from just watching this video are the things that JAMAICANS overlook!! most of them just jump on a bandwagon and run with whatever they are told. They do not question the source or look into the situation for themselves....Intelligent people are everywhere, including TG. They paint a picture that depicts a place that have only armed robbers and beggars/smoochers holding out hands to Dudus.if you defend the rights of TG people, they say U R from TG!:-)
@jack3finger , conscience has long been swept away from those greedy people who hide behind their burglar bars...The desire for wealth and to live like the original oppressors captivate them in every way. What happens recently shows us that most ppl lack conscience these days. The $ is the only thing that garner respect. A human life is now meaningless. Poor people are viewed as society's burden, not "human beings in need of help"...
@jack3finger that's the disappointing thing about MOST human beings i.e they strive to be like or do the things that an abuser or oppressor in this case has done. It marvels me that after coming out of slavery this is the best black people can do!! It's sad to say, but the quality of life was better under the oppressors, they ensured we didn't kill each other i.e. laws were enforced, blacks appreciated each other then..freedom was valued. Community meant everything, pride & respect was paramount
@jack3finger Hello my darling :-) I have been missing in action, got soo busy I didn't have time to log in.
You are absolutely right! SCARY psychological effects at play!! Freedom achieved what the whips and chains couldn't. Something is VERY wrong among majority of blacks!! even those that are so-called educated. It's either they abandon their race and bury the possibilities or they turn around and inflict harm. I think something happened even before slavery, something genetic/hereditary
@jack3finger , I'm still here, rarely have time to browse these days. However, I'm still doing my best to keep checking and keep the dialogue going. good point! true thing about the enemies. Sometimes I wonder if it's a hopeless fight to get some of these folks to free their minds.
@Caribbeanprincess1 ...Malcolm X an admirer and student of Garvey, summed up the conditions of mental enslavement untreated so eloquently addressing Blacks in the US when he said "some of u are ready to crawl right back on the slave plantations". We must also keep in mind the many
of the negative conditions among our ppl didn't all created by Black ppl. There
are obstacles on top of obstacles that as been thrown in our way. The truths
@jack3finger , I agree with Malcolm....and I also agree that there are obstacles, but I can't understand the constant "self-hating" ways. What is it most of us are not seeing, even in 2010? Is it really too late?....(((exhaling)))))
look like it sometime. I have seen attitudes changed
even in this day and age. I have changes attitues in some
people that I know. Chinweizu an excellent Nigerian scholar thinker and writer -
in his view "If you allow yourself to be conquered, you are finished..Not many peoples survive conquest..Black Africa is struggling to shake off the effects of just one century of people who didn't even come in droves to live here"
Chinweizu continue..."They scattered your civilization, scattered your culture, scattered your mind and scattered your mentality. And just getting yourselves out of that disaster is difficult enough, not to talk of when they come in large numbers to settle permanently and take over your land. So, you can begin to understand what happened in Egypt"
@jack3finger , I've grasp all of his sentiments. BUT...what is it about blacks that forces them to stay in mental slavery?? To enslave each other NOW that the reigns have been loosen? How long can we use what we've been through as a reason to abuse each other?
@Caribbeanprincess1a Waa gwaan Princess? I haven't been too active on here lately, but thats how it goes sometime! I think it come down to taking the time to repair the damages that was done and been done and some dont. Some dont used critical thinking, its about been conscious. Many of the problems we see today brought about after the "new world" created out of the European expansion. We have to teach these things to the children, thats where it start.
@jack3finger , Hey there my darling ;) I've been missing in action myself. The daily demands of life keeps me away from the system alot. I agree with your recommendation as a place to start the repair, but it's at a point where MOST ears are closed to reasoning. In the USA the prison population is made of majority blacks i.e. over 80 percent and they RAPE, KILL & INTIMIDATE each othe on the daily, they're not aware that prison is the "new slave ship" prison grounds is the new "plantation".
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes Princess:) I know what you mean about "The daily demands of life" and how it can keep one so busy sometimes, same with me here.
Yeah nuff people closed dem ears, lots of "stiff necked fools" fortunately some
will listen and take heed. Some went into prisons ignorant and lost and so they
remain. I agree - "they're not aware that prison is the "new slave ship" prison grounds is the new "plantation". and the guns etc that cause some to be there are the new CHAIN!!
@Caribbeanprincess1 If some of the problem among our people were inherent or innate then all a wi would be like that, it have to do with the socialization process.
@jack3finger , I sometimes think about it like that...and other times I wonder if blacks who have even a small percentage of mixture tend to think more uplifting than those closest to being pure. I look at this from all angle. Why whites make better social choices than blacks in most instances? I mean from even in the colonial days. Black kings sold their own people. Whites bought other races or punish those determined to be of other ethnicity. we've self-destruct for centuries
people than Marcus Garvey and he surely would be considered "pure":)
Which is but one of many examples that would make null and void any notions that Blacks have to be somewhat mix with White or whoever to be great or good etc . White people slaughtered millions of other White people throughout their histories in Europe and also enslaved millions of other White people...
@jack3finger ,the problem is that blacks view mostly ALL Europeans who folks that appear to be white as "whites', but whites doesn't see it like that, so in essence those that were enslaved weren't considered white----or "pure".
the Slavs, English peasants etc. During the transatlantic slave trade Africans
didn't necessarily consider other Africans as Black, they identified themselves and each other by culture. Yes Serial killers are amongst Blacks now, but the first serial killers were White. Whites only become ahead of everybody else
@Caribbeanprincess1 .............mainly because they marched in with guns kill people, steal their resources, land and destroyed their societies and practice
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes some Black kings sold other Blacks into slavery just as some Whites sold other Whites into slavery, but some Black kings and queens also fight against the slave trade down to their last. I wouldn't buy the notion that "whites make better social choices than blacks in most instances" Up until the 80s all serial killers were White. Many of Black people social hurdles were put in place by no other than Whites themselves.
@jack3finger , It is evident that whites made better social choices in most instances. Look at black countries and see the level of poverty and hate among them; so much that when whites invade they can't come together to keep the enemy out. Whites put in place more resources for their people. Serial killers are also among blacks.
@Caribbeanprincess1 The mistakes that some Africans made and needs to learn from, was scrabbling over petty differences (heighten by the colonialists themselves )and not seaming to recolonize the bigger threat. Not need to be "skeptical" their barbaric behaviors is been documented: having sex with horses
to inaugurate their new king, eating their dead relatives, inviting others to a challenge so they can kill them and eat their dead flesh.
@Caribbeanprincess1 There are things that White practices in Europe throughout their histories so despicable and barbaric there are no records of Blacks and other people of color engaging in such behaviors back in their history
@jack3finger , regarding the barbaric behaviors, i'm skeptical; looking at the amount of sacrifice and other rituals blacks do,even today; like the sacrifice of babies in Nigeria for wealth. i'm not in the least bit saying whites aren't evil, i'm concerned with blacks and their obvious prolonged demise
@Caribbeanprincess1 ... I am concerned about Blacks too, but certain misconception about who is barbaric and who is not and them kind a things need to clear up. About the "sacrifice of babies..for wealth" I don't know when thinks like that start happening if it is - but many negative behaviors among Africans or Blacks are recent, after colonialism.
are "Internalized Inferiority" and "The Myth of Black Self-Destruction" By Jumasa. Where it is highlighted that while some Blacks remained
captive to the condition of Internalized Inferiority - there are those that made a conscious effort to rid themselves of it, to those who have rid themselves of the condition through the knowledge of their African culture and histories wherein
@jack3finger , internalized inferiority/that's a bunch of nonsense created to incite second guessing in blacks who have face the reality of the obvious disparity in progress within black communities vs whites. currently hispanics and blacks have a lot in common.
of "Internalized Inferiority continue.."That the Black persons that remained
captive to the condition of Internalized Inferiority is been recognized
as the "Negro" in the modern sense. You can not always tell that a
person is Black by just physical characteristic - the substance of the mentality and the state of their consciousness make them more different, than their skin colour or racial classification makes them similar.
@Caribbeanprincess1 ..."What might look like the destructions of the Black community from within, is often time the works of the self-alienating Negro.. ..In the absence of a way of making this distinction, one can observe the behavior and mannerisms of the Negroes, and attribute them to Black people"
@jack3finger , sure you weren't smoking today? :-) The so called -self-alienating negroes must comprise most black communities that self-destruct because this goes beyond a handful of misguided people. Hand over a small island or a country to a black leader in stellar condition, then revisit in couple years and you'll find economic ruin, widespread property destruction etc....
White supremacy impact the world at large, the people it impact is far from been an hand full. I think the real question is what causes the "economic ruin, widespread property destruction etc...." I don't think "the "negro" analogy is a twisted contortion" I don't see why Blacks who have face the reality would need
to second guess to see those that don't, or disparity in progress within black communities vs whites.
@Caribbeanprincess1 what gave you the inclination that "blacks" (i use 'blacks' with precaution as the dictionary term defines as dark and wicked ) aren't intrinsically subjected to being oppressed - aren't we mindfully enslaved via our rather grotesque nature for mere material items?
@JamRoca , I see your perspective and understand the implication, but with all honesty "Whites" are obssessed with material things waaaay more than "blacks", yet they seem to trample "others" to get it, while blacks tend to trample each other, wreak havoc among themselves while STILL bowing at the whiteman's feet. Freedom to blacks is worse than slavery in it's destruction, because blacks are now able to buy houses,cars, screw around across racial lines etc, they think it's the pinnacle. SAD!
one of my cousin was chased in his yard and shot in front of his 5 year old son while his wife witness the entire thing from inside the home. After chasing him, they stood over his injured body and fired 5 shots in his head. cant stand to see innocent people get hust but nuff a the people in Tivoli know , dem know, better than I know. so chat like unnu dont know. Sometime a gun man send them fi demonstrate still, nuff land deh a country, move out. unnu love di freeness and passa passa. no more!
Journalist must be fair too, TG claim them nuh have crime, but that no mean criminal no live there. Them claim is not tunnel , but me know seh is a escape route. Me see video on TV wid man on top of the road block with high powered weapons. Law abiding my ass. Jamaica cant run so, the rule of law must be upheld. If a me, trust me, Tivoli would disappear. me loose two cousin to gun man rumored to be from that area, yes me a carry personal beef, but me hear seh police kill dem already still.
Talk all u want, me a church man, an one of our Pastor said he went there before the raid by the joint military, and he said he never saw so much guns in his life. Dont agree with killing the innocent but nuff who deh pon di TV a criminal dem, a wash bloody clothes every night fi dem pickney. Ask JPS and NWC if they can go there and disconnect any utility before the raid. A wah so, me must pay and dem live free? Dem block road like seh dem a law unto themselves, no pity me nuh have.
@JamKick says a LOT about "church people"....the evil that fester in your hearts. You are telling me that JDF & JCF do not have intelligent people on their staff that could come up with a better strategic plan? NO one is saying there are no criminals in TG. Lots of these women who wash bloody clothes etc were born into the cycle that the gov help to create, many of their sons are intimidated and force into crime by the Don that Gov support. Catch 22! Both TG & Gov need a thorough cleaning up
@jack3finger I agree. I sure do hope when the dust settles, all TV residents and other garrisons will forget about Politics, see the true picture and try to rebuild, focusing on "unity".
@Caribbeanprincess1 This is all about oil that was discovered last year in Jamaica not Dudus he was just a pawn, the real reason is that America wants the oil that was discovered and they created this diversion. For more information go to this website Negrilstories.ca wesite.
@jack3finger they know this, but members of the gov focus will remain primarily on "self & immediate circle of friends and family"...they feel as long as they can hide money in offshore accounts etc and have reserves to flee the country if need be there's no need to worry about restructuring....They figure the poor ppl will be left behind to suffer and that's been the strategic plan from the beginning of time"the poor poorer" & "the rich richer"
@jack3finger you've made some good points here regarding the colonial setup legacy. It seems black people have a fear of truly taking control of their own destiny. ALWAYS looking elsewhere for leadership. ALL predominently black countries so far look towards AMERICA etc...they're like puppets trying to please this great nation. Now with Obama in office some start thinking they can make world-class decesions, but STILL with simulation in mind & Obama is carrying on a legacy of deviances
@jack3finger I'm really impress with your observations. It baffles me that so many blacks can't see the bigger picture. This evening I had a member of this forum sent me an email telling me that she wanted EVERYONE in tivoli to be killed because Dudus father tried to kill her mother who was also into politics years ago. Imagine, her mother was in the same political saga, yet she sees no problem with that because it provided a "good" life for her!, yet TG people who spoke out should be killed?
@jack3finger, She clearly has the "Politics" mentality!! The same mentality that has ruined Jamaica....believe me, if the people don't wake up and strive for a different movement Jamaica will be in shambles. She bragged to me about going to prep school, living in gated community etc "all politically aligned", then say TG ppl need to help themselves. Her FAMILY got blood money and it's ok, but TG residents talking about Dudus should warrant death for an entire community. HYPOCRISY!!!
@jack3finger, this is powerful sentence you've written. i.e. "People who think they are inferior are not confident to decide their own destiny"!!!....I actually read this out loud :) so good to see someone else understanding and verbalizing this premise.
ex colonialists always going to put pressure on them, of which they must remain vigilant and steadfast and don't give in selling out their countries and people.
@jack3finger, you're right, they need to be vigilant, but it seems they're becoming weaker and weaker...unless they truly decide to unite and move forward without the corruption, they will fail.
@jack3finger, I agree. See, it's more of a tribal approach i.e. I am with PNP, you are with JLP, so whenever either party is in power whom ever is not a member or a part of the "in-party" is deprived. I was having a conversation last night and I was telling someone it seems that gangs etc in western society is derived from the tribal mentality. This is my clique...and that's your clique", They don't look for what they have in common, instead they cling to differences and "war" over it.
@jack3finger , you've summed it up. The political lines made a big impact as it regards to crime, anger & hate among Jamaicans. This darn JLP & PNP division. They would have been better off forming a CommonWealth....
@jack3finger , good point! good point! ;) They were opposing what was better for the country. See majority of people, even in America, england, canada etc where they're suppose to be more literate tend to hang on to propaganda, anything the media project or anything someone who's well dressed in a suit present to them. The presenter only needs to be confident and the idea is SOLD!! all psychology.
@jack3finger it's all about the "image"...it just needs to "look good", it doesn't need to "be good):) and that's the problem. Example: I traveled to Jamaica back in 99, had a suit on & was carrying my company laptop, the agents at the airport were bending over backwards to please me. Returning I put Jeans, slippers & a spaghetti strap blouse on. The treatment was completely different. I no longer had the oppressors image of success...SAD!!! I look younger than my age & this made it worse.
and the poor in Jamaica's early African communities? we already
see that in 300 yrs there is only one or two murders in the
Maroon communities, and they don't even got police. What can we
learn from them? the descendants of a people who maintained
civilizations for 1000s and 1000s of years with little crime. Instead of some of our pl and leaders blindly fallowing a people who seek to colonized us for their
@jack3finger, yet another good observation. The Maroons have almost nil murders within their communities. Although I indicated above about the "tribal mentality", the difference was in those tribes the elders were given respect and the community/village look out for each other, there was rarely any incident that was not resolve by bringing it before an elder. In the West, its interpreted differently, though subliminal. Yep, the problem is the quest to follow those who colonized us.
The real reason for this whole incident in Jamaica (Tivoli Garden) is about oil, this website will give you a more indepth explanation Negrilstories.ca website.
Jamaica is the playground of the CIA. This has nothing to do with Bruce Golding or Dudas. This has to do with destabilization and trauma. Jamaicans are strong people, we recover quickly from hurricanes and earthquakes, unlike Haiti. So they couldn't use that against us (yes, natural disasters can be stimulated), they had to send in the "Jackals". They've been doing this for decades.
How we recover from this will determine how they use this tactic in South and Central America. Just like the 80s.
@MrJama1ca , that part was amusing to me too...even in the midst of their crisis there's that authentic comedic factor created from lack of opportunity for exposure, to finish school etc...my heart went out to her and what she's been through, but when she said "deading" I burst into laughter while tears was running down my face at the condition. glad I'm not the only one who caught that. lol. I LOVE jamaica, yet somedays I wonder why after all the disparity that I've witnessed.
@pennyredfern he's maybe a deportee, but he dropped some knowledge regarding how stress can kill and how environment contribute....I liked his delivery. Those people only need "opportunity"and coming to America is not necessarily the answer.
yow all i have to say is, a dem same one did say that they would die for dudus, not all of em are guilty but not all are innocent, just another example that the good will suffer for the bad
for those who feel da JCP is serving justice...copy n paste this address (tivoli n surrounding community casualties in may pen cemetery)...!!!!LOOK AT FAN PHOTOS BENEATH!!!!!
for those who feel da JCP is serving justice...copy n paste this address (tivoli n surrounding community casualties in may pen cemetery)...!!!!LOOK AT FAN PHOTOS BENEATH!!!!!
bygojohn: You need to learn English before you accuse the correspondent of taking sides. When the reporter said "THESE" it means THESE PEOPLE HERE AT THE SCENE OF THE REPORT. Now, if the reporter had said WE or US then that would mean that she is including herself as one of the residents and would make your point correct but THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
@izasaros Tsk tsk, it is very clear to me you have misunderstood what I was alluding to. Thanks sweetrayatgmail, maybe you have made things easier for it to decipher. Hopefully izasarass will be educated.
Bad enough this correspondent is trying to use a Dianne Sawyeresque voice to report this video. What was worse for me is her violation of the first rule in journalistic reporting. DO NOT TAKE SIDES. You cannot take sides with an issue and she did that when she said 'these are the voices of those who lived through the horror of watching people killed as security forces worked on restoring order...'. MISTAKE, do not take sides.
btw, just to be clear, my problem with all this is that ur all blaming government and police as if there the only ones at fault. The lawless members of Tivoli did all this to protect one man. One man is at the center of all this. If this one man chose to, none of this would have passed. Yet ur all sitting here in true Jamaican style blaming the government. The JLP and TivoIi have a loooooooooooooooooooooong history together. I dont believe in blame games. That gives no answers, just more quarrel
@Oats162 this was never about "blame"...It was and still is about "facts" regarding what took place. So no, no one is here blaming the security with tunnel vision. People saw the violations that took place and are responding accordingly. In this incident law enforcement and the government were WRONG!! for everything else you've written, the "true Jamaican style blaming the gov" of which you speak was incited by the gov proving to be inadequate.
@Caribbeanprincess1 if you were in charge of the police, what would your strategy be in order to gain control of the situation? I just don't understand why people blame the police, they doing their job in a very hostile and dangerous situation. I can just imagine what the chaos and lawlessness,if the police did nothing. Blame Dudus and the Prime Minister
@pennyredfern it is very simple. The head of the JCF and the JDF are acclimated with these situations, the PM isn't. He gave an order. It is for the JCF & JDF to come up with a strategic plan and tell the PM that what he's asking for will result in a massacre so give them a bit more time to come up with a proper plan. They have the right to advise the PM although he has more say. If they MUST go in, there was still no need to kick in doors to kill residents! some killings were totally avoidable
@Caribbeanprincess1 it seems to me the goverment was taken by surprise by the verosity and intensity of the gang members.They were determined to go to war the goverment, so it seems a little unrealistic to meet to discuss strategy while police stations were burning, and people being killed. No country can prosper when criminal elements take over-that's just chaos and anarchy. I think the govmt were caught by surprise.
@pennyredfern Anarchy? C'mon, Tivoli had a close relationship with heads of Gov, this is not about Tivoli wanting to run things, it's about the Gov wanting to silence people in Tivoli for fear of exposure. EVeryone knew Dudus was NOT in Tivoli before the invasion. If anything government was surprise that some of the ppl decided to voice their opinion and or fight back. The primary criminal elements are government officials and members of law enforcement.
@pennyredfern by all means, something needed to be done to improve the lives of Tivoli residents and eradicate some criminals, but this was by far the worst way to handle it.
@Caribbeanprincess1 Ur comments seem to ignore the fact that the police operation official begun on Monday, but on Sunday night after the Rupublic of Tivoli finished fortifying their streets with blockades and collecting weapons, they launched a pre-emptive strike shooting up and burning down police stations FORCING the hand of the security forces and government officials FORCING the PM to send the country into a STATE of EMERGENCY. Nothing more could have been done in this event.
@Oats162 i see your perspective, but it's not quite accurate. Lots of discussions went on and they found that the Gov had decided to disregard the laws of Jamaica that would give Dudus "due process"....they are use to the government and security forces killing their children and harassing them without a reason. There was no trust. Their defence mechanism kicked in, thus they barricaded etc. Things could and can be done!! officials chose not to...even reporters are bias
dutty labourite them they the one voted bruce in glad it didnt happing during pnp time
Tinbeef22 5 months ago
@Tinbeef22 you are so stupid...
fanofbc1678 4 months ago
@fanofbc1678 suck yuh mada dem wanted change they git it lmao
Tinbeef22 4 months ago
that guy that talks like american is right
123xbobby 7 months ago
Fuck ,so many ugly women,fat women,fuck it looks like Aids stricken Africa
TrueHolyGhost 7 months ago
Bruce Golding came to Tivoli Gardens as an opportunist. He found it to be a harvest of votes. They elected him and that was all they were needed for. Used and rejected. His Judgment Day is at hand.
De1Bushdoctor 7 months ago
burn down the whole U.S.A for raping the world!!! rastafari will bun dem!
wrasta 9 months ago
the days for using your fists are long over,use yor mind,thats all i got to say
dondocapo 10 months ago
sooooo right
roxanne3ful 10 months ago
Move them back to West Africa. They have suffered for too long. They worship americas ass
Killayut 1 year ago
@Killayut - the problem is they won't go to West AFrica... when Marcus Garvey tried to make it happen... most wouldn't follow and they won't now. They prefer to live in a white man's country regardless of all the "proud to be black talk". I know a few people who have moved to Africa (even a cousin who studied in Canada)... and they love it. They are very much a minority though.
Amidat 8 months ago
@cottofan1 she has not seen her son for a few days, that does not mean she has lost him lol
She knows where he is, the difference is she can't go she him.
hypeon 1 year ago
"mi waan go si mi son, mi waan go si mi son, Murda Murda"
hypeon 1 year ago
@hypeon how is mother loosing her son funny?
CottoFan1 1 year ago
In the smallest of Countries & Nations go to war amongst themselves.
But don't forget this all started because the U.S.A. wanted Christopher Coke for charges of illegal Weapons, Drugs & Murder. This is the U.S.A. on the War on Drugs.
Mexico is have the same problem as we had in May but are still going after the Cartel nearly a full year compare to our 2 Month unrest. Jamaica is a bridge to the U.S. for Drugs so they have to put their interest on the Island in order to fight THE WAR ON DRUGS.
Crackshotsteph 1 year ago
any of you because for years all you people down there do is aid and abet crime, in Tivoli Gardens. Bruce I applaud you for your action it is high times now that someone in leadership positions to start lead, crime is ruining us as a people, we were once the leader in educating of our people in the 80s, in all the Caribbean, look at where we are today, the liberal attitude is what is killing our people. Bruce don't stop there you need to clean the whole place up and restore law and order.
Jababer9 1 year ago
I can never be sorry for no one down there they all know about the amount a guns that are in Garden, I lived there so I can talk. That woman say to be poor is a crime that is true, it can also be said to be dunce is also a crime two, the extortion that goes in around via Dudus orders so much man dead under his order, I can go on and on, but Jamaican who live in these communities must realize that the don does not live among you but rule from his posh mansion on the hills... I am not sorry for
Jababer9 1 year ago
jamaica gone to di dust we need a betta jamaica
TheLord3vil 1 year ago
i am watching this and crying...what is happenin to my island JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS...DEVIL U WILL NOT TAKE MY ISLAND
supakeiiz 1 year ago
why the fuck would i vote for any politician in the first place!
but i would love to have some guns to kill some motherfuckers in tivoli. lol
darkchild666100 1 year ago
Golding gets the blame.
But people higher than him would give the orders for such a big job.
He can't set that by himself....
ReportaMan 1 year ago
Christopher Coke to my understanding as been extradited in relation to 40 pounds of cannabis and four firearms - "yuh really afi laugh bout bad tings" - i utterly believe the U.S. is trying to implicate dudus in relation to 1400 murders or more where in which happened during the 1980's (both respectively Jim Brown and Vivian Blake's era)
JamRoca 1 year ago
@JamRoca , It seem to be past Vendetta to the 80's era, coupled with current events that were planned to maintain destabilization in Jamaica. Jamaica was very close to being pardon for debts etc by the IMF and that would improve the economy. If U.S paint Jamaica as a non-compliant problem country with a leader who's connected to a drug lord the world will look down on Jamaica as US create sanctions to ruin it...Jamaica is small, but dominant on D world stage.from olympics, music to resorts
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@JamRoca , so outside of this oil allegation that's been floating around there are many reasons for the hype regarding Dudus. The U.S is about winning, they don't like to be upstage on anything :) Did you hear the U.S girl at the olympics saying that "someone had a voodoo doll on them", implying that the Jamaican athletes were using voodoo to win races!! U.S does nothing by the book, but force other nations to...those dopers couldn't dope anymore due to new regulation, so they started losing
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Political activist Abbie Hoffman quoted "To steal from a brother or sister is evil. To not steal from the institutions that are the pillars of the Pig Empire is equally immoral" - America's government is absolutely warped in smoke and mirror - further undertaking empire esque attributes - clothed as peace, freedom and democracy - whilst, unwittingly divine and conquer - to be totally absolutely objective - America is apparently willing to hold the world at ransom...
JamRoca 1 year ago
@JamRoca TYPO error - divide and rule not divine and rule,lol
JamRoca 1 year ago
@JamRoca trust me, I totally understood, even prior to your correction. I know that sometimes when we are trying to get out our thoughts "the fingers sometimes type way faster and we end up with Typo's.... I don't weigh heavily on those errors....
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@JamRoca , I was away from youtube for a minute:) I absolutely agree with your post above. i.e. America is willing to hold the world at ransom!!! Good analogy and observation....
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
Nuffa these woman who crying and preaching bout cops mash them up.... Most a them man, boyfriend, husband and brother a badman inna town who is holding big machine gun and a gwaan like them innocent. Police fi kill off the whole a them pussyclaat. Tired aTivoli and them garbage dump town. Them is just like Jews who kill and rape off people and then gwaan like innocent citezens. Fire fi dem. I hope this is the last of ShowerPosse. Dudus is the last of dem deh. Go plant corn and stop depend.
mikeygeneral 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral We cant make the situations and frustrations
drive us to insanity like it did many of our people, what you said
is the same as man invading other communities
killing random women and children and man,
to settle scores against their communities
jack3finger 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
..Many things have been said of his father Jim Brown, but at least he didn't marry any
light skinned woman from somewhere else, he marry a woman
of his own community and color.
jack3finger 1 year ago
So they finally got Dudus?
From what I have learned about Dudus so far
there is no doubt he is a intelligent man. Like countless other
intelligent young Jamaicans with promising potentials and intentions
thru various circumstances only to fall prey to political polarizations, criminality, the gun, revenge against rogue police and bad man, and been the fall guy.
We need a state of emergency against the conditions that lead to these outcomes
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger hear hear
JamRoca 1 year ago
@JamRoca Thanks!!
jack3finger 1 year ago
that guy talking in front of the house is a deportee. I can put my money on it.
mikeygeneral 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral That's what many of us are thinking too
He seem like a alright guy tho!
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger
Talking is one this. Many people learn they lesson as time pass and the get old. But i young time them man don't want to hear no reason. Just shoot and rob first. Farrin catch up with them and now them is citezen's of Jamaica and want preach out gainst police. when them have every chance fi come a farrin and make use of themselve's. Nooooo- Them don't waa do that, Them prefer the gun. Now the ship back and a gwaan like say them a victem? whappn to the people hunnu kill off?
mikeygeneral 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral Mi naa really judge still..but
the man them who find themselves
on the deported side of things are
there for the yutes to learn from,
and to teach the yutes not to repeat
certain things, either them learn
the easier way or the hard way
jack3finger 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral , usually the ppl who get killed in drug related activity are ALL in the same game, it's just that the survivor gets deported or face punishment etc.i"m not supporting criminal activities, but most often the Jamaican guys who get caught up in the drug trade in the usa don't have the proper papers to get a legitimate job and INS makes it hard!! it's not always about persons who lack ambition,but rather persons who want to survive and get caught in kill or be killed situations.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1
I know the INS well and that's crap. even if you come here on a visitors visa, You can apply for the 134A to work and pay taxes without even having a SS# ( Unless your'e talking about a person who is illegal).These people come from extreme poverty (No Problem- Shit happens) - Red eye want everything NOW like the people they admire. So they rush to go sell drugs and make fast money. Please can you save me the bolony? I don't feel sorry fi none a them a bloodclaat.
mikeygeneral 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral , from what you've stated, you know NOTHING about the INS. My aunt worked as an immigration officer at a NY location for years. I came here legally as a teenager, filed for by an American Dad & a Jamaican mom and I had an issue to sort out years later and the Agents in B'more gave me all WRONG info & references. It was this Aunt that I'd hardly known who visited at a family gathering who later refer to the proper forms "inside info"...It's 10 more complicated for illegals.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral , And...no where did I restrict my statement to "visitors"...most ppl who get visitors visa are not in dire need for a so-called better life, they can afford to travel or leisure and are treated with more dignity. My concern is for the people who try all means to get away from Jamaica to make a better life for their families. You're the one talking pure CRAP!! You're a selfish fallacious being. so it's RED EYE? to want a better life? where the hell does your logic come from?
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1
It's not red eye to want a better life heediot. ITS HOW YOU GO BY IT. I said sell drugs. Stop making excuses for Jamaican criminals. These are dutty people....... Hold on. I just thought about it. I may just be dealing with one myself here. Look how much fucking people a dead? and you still a make excuse for these people. You know what, I would appreciate if you don't even reply back to me. Please don't. Not even with a last comment. Just forword on.
mikeygeneral 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral You full a (general)ization, yuh (general)ize
everything. Its not all deportees kill people, sell drugs and are
"dutty people". Some were in the US etc illegally and got caught.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@mikeygeneral ,. I don't have to defend my stance to you! anyone reading both of our comments can clearly tell who's a "heediot", according to you. Those ppl in TG were killed by those who are being paid to protect them, not so-called criminals. You need to forward your ass on to a cave, you're a hateful man!! Who are killing the F..king ppl??? hmm? you're making NO SENSE!!! so the PM and other rich folks are doing any better by killing and exploiting the poor? you lack logic
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
im sorry for Jamaica..
Adelsa869Kutie 1 year ago
I'm trying to contact the reporter in the blue from rjr she knows who am i NYS best friend.... her uncle is mr walker.
coppayow 1 year ago
The lady speech at 2:55 shows that intelligent and educated people
are in Tivoli just like anywhere else in JA, including some of the ones that don't chose to express themselves in standard English like she did
The other lady with the Marcus Garvey reference show the people awareness
of Garvey and his works than some in the gov seem to be.The TG people also play a important part in the retentions of our traditional cultural forms.
They are far more than just a reputation of garrison
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger the things that you've observed from just watching this video are the things that JAMAICANS overlook!! most of them just jump on a bandwagon and run with whatever they are told. They do not question the source or look into the situation for themselves....Intelligent people are everywhere, including TG. They paint a picture that depicts a place that have only armed robbers and beggars/smoochers holding out hands to Dudus.if you defend the rights of TG people, they say U R from TG!:-)
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes critical thinking is what
some of them don't used. Some don't even care about
the TG people or any similar communities, just about
their own safety and security behind their bugler bar grills
where they hide their conscience while they wish
poor people would just stay in their place
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , conscience has long been swept away from those greedy people who hide behind their burglar bars...The desire for wealth and to live like the original oppressors captivate them in every way. What happens recently shows us that most ppl lack conscience these days. The $ is the only thing that garner respect. A human life is now meaningless. Poor people are viewed as society's burden, not "human beings in need of help"...
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
Comment removed
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes the no conscience types Jamaicans
are Judas. They will sell out their fellow Jamaicans and Jamaica
at the drop of a dime for 30 pieces of silver. You are right, some of
them strive to be like the original oppressors in EVERY way possible. The oppressors ways don't value human life, just profits. Some Jamaicans
lost the sense of community, a Jamaican community
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger that's the disappointing thing about MOST human beings i.e they strive to be like or do the things that an abuser or oppressor in this case has done. It marvels me that after coming out of slavery this is the best black people can do!! It's sad to say, but the quality of life was better under the oppressors, they ensured we didn't kill each other i.e. laws were enforced, blacks appreciated each other then..freedom was valued. Community meant everything, pride & respect was paramount
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Good evening!!:)
Some scary psychological effects
is at play.You are right, what chains,
whips and segregation couldn't achieved integrations
and "freedom" seem to,because the psychological
aspect haven't been dealt with among large sections
of our people, and the people
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger Hello my darling :-) I have been missing in action, got soo busy I didn't have time to log in.
You are absolutely right! SCARY psychological effects at play!! Freedom achieved what the whips and chains couldn't. Something is VERY wrong among majority of blacks!! even those that are so-called educated. It's either they abandon their race and bury the possibilities or they turn around and inflict harm. I think something happened even before slavery, something genetic/hereditary
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Waa gwaan my sis:-) :)
Yeah it append like that sometimes, same with me
sometimes. Yes that's because "education" dont
necessarily educate about self love and awareness.
Mental enslavement is a hell of a thing, it can sometimes
seem hopeless.Your enemies have a better chance of doing u in acting like your friend far more than your open enemy.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , I'm still here, rarely have time to browse these days. However, I'm still doing my best to keep checking and keep the dialogue going. good point! true thing about the enemies. Sometimes I wonder if it's a hopeless fight to get some of these folks to free their minds.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes its a good thing to keep the
dialogue going in the available mediums and in the homes.
Been busy and rarely have time to browse happened
to all a wi sometimes:)
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 ...Malcolm X an admirer and student of Garvey, summed up the conditions of mental enslavement untreated so eloquently addressing Blacks in the US when he said "some of u are ready to crawl right back on the slave plantations". We must also keep in mind the many
of the negative conditions among our ppl didn't all created by Black ppl. There
are obstacles on top of obstacles that as been thrown in our way. The truths
must be told
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , I agree with Malcolm....and I also agree that there are obstacles, but I can't understand the constant "self-hating" ways. What is it most of us are not seeing, even in 2010? Is it really too late?....(((exhaling)))))
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 No its not too late, even tho it might
look like it sometime. I have seen attitudes changed
even in this day and age. I have changes attitues in some
people that I know. Chinweizu an excellent Nigerian scholar thinker and writer -
in his view "If you allow yourself to be conquered, you are finished..Not many peoples survive conquest..Black Africa is struggling to shake off the effects of just one century of people who didn't even come in droves to live here"
jack3finger 1 year ago
Chinweizu continue..."They scattered your civilization, scattered your culture, scattered your mind and scattered your mentality. And just getting yourselves out of that disaster is difficult enough, not to talk of when they come in large numbers to settle permanently and take over your land. So, you can begin to understand what happened in Egypt"
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , I've grasp all of his sentiments. BUT...what is it about blacks that forces them to stay in mental slavery?? To enslave each other NOW that the reigns have been loosen? How long can we use what we've been through as a reason to abuse each other?
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1a Waa gwaan Princess? I haven't been too active on here lately, but thats how it goes sometime! I think it come down to taking the time to repair the damages that was done and been done and some dont. Some dont used critical thinking, its about been conscious. Many of the problems we see today brought about after the "new world" created out of the European expansion. We have to teach these things to the children, thats where it start.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , Hey there my darling ;) I've been missing in action myself. The daily demands of life keeps me away from the system alot. I agree with your recommendation as a place to start the repair, but it's at a point where MOST ears are closed to reasoning. In the USA the prison population is made of majority blacks i.e. over 80 percent and they RAPE, KILL & INTIMIDATE each othe on the daily, they're not aware that prison is the "new slave ship" prison grounds is the new "plantation".
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes Princess:) I know what you mean about "The daily demands of life" and how it can keep one so busy sometimes, same with me here.
Yeah nuff people closed dem ears, lots of "stiff necked fools" fortunately some
will listen and take heed. Some went into prisons ignorant and lost and so they
remain. I agree - "they're not aware that prison is the "new slave ship" prison grounds is the new "plantation". and the guns etc that cause some to be there are the new CHAIN!!
Later
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 If some of the problem among our people were inherent or innate then all a wi would be like that, it have to do with the socialization process.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , I sometimes think about it like that...and other times I wonder if blacks who have even a small percentage of mixture tend to think more uplifting than those closest to being pure. I look at this from all angle. Why whites make better social choices than blacks in most instances? I mean from even in the colonial days. Black kings sold their own people. Whites bought other races or punish those determined to be of other ethnicity. we've self-destruct for centuries
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Well its hard to find a bigger champion for Black
people than Marcus Garvey and he surely would be considered "pure":)
Which is but one of many examples that would make null and void any notions that Blacks have to be somewhat mix with White or whoever to be great or good etc . White people slaughtered millions of other White people throughout their histories in Europe and also enslaved millions of other White people...
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger ,the problem is that blacks view mostly ALL Europeans who folks that appear to be white as "whites', but whites doesn't see it like that, so in essence those that were enslaved weren't considered white----or "pure".
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Well they are considered "white" today:
the Slavs, English peasants etc. During the transatlantic slave trade Africans
didn't necessarily consider other Africans as Black, they identified themselves and each other by culture. Yes Serial killers are amongst Blacks now, but the first serial killers were White. Whites only become ahead of everybody else
during the pass 5 or 6 hundred years
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 .............mainly because they marched in with guns kill people, steal their resources, land and destroyed their societies and practice
slavery for economic enrichment
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes some Black kings sold other Blacks into slavery just as some Whites sold other Whites into slavery, but some Black kings and queens also fight against the slave trade down to their last. I wouldn't buy the notion that "whites make better social choices than blacks in most instances" Up until the 80s all serial killers were White. Many of Black people social hurdles were put in place by no other than Whites themselves.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , It is evident that whites made better social choices in most instances. Look at black countries and see the level of poverty and hate among them; so much that when whites invade they can't come together to keep the enemy out. Whites put in place more resources for their people. Serial killers are also among blacks.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 The mistakes that some Africans made and needs to learn from, was scrabbling over petty differences (heighten by the colonialists themselves )and not seaming to recolonize the bigger threat. Not need to be "skeptical" their barbaric behaviors is been documented: having sex with horses
to inaugurate their new king, eating their dead relatives, inviting others to a challenge so they can kill them and eat their dead flesh.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 There are things that White practices in Europe throughout their histories so despicable and barbaric there are no records of Blacks and other people of color engaging in such behaviors back in their history
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , regarding the barbaric behaviors, i'm skeptical; looking at the amount of sacrifice and other rituals blacks do,even today; like the sacrifice of babies in Nigeria for wealth. i'm not in the least bit saying whites aren't evil, i'm concerned with blacks and their obvious prolonged demise
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 ... I am concerned about Blacks too, but certain misconception about who is barbaric and who is not and them kind a things need to clear up. About the "sacrifice of babies..for wealth" I don't know when thinks like that start happening if it is - but many negative behaviors among Africans or Blacks are recent, after colonialism.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Some other excellent works on the subject
are "Internalized Inferiority" and "The Myth of Black Self-Destruction" By Jumasa. Where it is highlighted that while some Blacks remained
captive to the condition of Internalized Inferiority - there are those that made a conscious effort to rid themselves of it, to those who have rid themselves of the condition through the knowledge of their African culture and histories wherein
dwell the authority of their complete humanity.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , internalized inferiority/that's a bunch of nonsense created to incite second guessing in blacks who have face the reality of the obvious disparity in progress within black communities vs whites. currently hispanics and blacks have a lot in common.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 The excellent works on the subject
of "Internalized Inferiority continue.."That the Black persons that remained
captive to the condition of Internalized Inferiority is been recognized
as the "Negro" in the modern sense. You can not always tell that a
person is Black by just physical characteristic - the substance of the mentality and the state of their consciousness make them more different, than their skin colour or racial classification makes them similar.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger ,the "negro" analogy put forth is a twisted contortion
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 ..."What might look like the destructions of the Black community from within, is often time the works of the self-alienating Negro.. ..In the absence of a way of making this distinction, one can observe the behavior and mannerisms of the Negroes, and attribute them to Black people"
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , sure you weren't smoking today? :-) The so called -self-alienating negroes must comprise most black communities that self-destruct because this goes beyond a handful of misguided people. Hand over a small island or a country to a black leader in stellar condition, then revisit in couple years and you'll find economic ruin, widespread property destruction etc....
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Caribbeanprincess1 No I wasn't smoking:) what make you think that?lol.
White supremacy impact the world at large, the people it impact is far from been an hand full. I think the real question is what causes the "economic ruin, widespread property destruction etc...." I don't think "the "negro" analogy is a twisted contortion" I don't see why Blacks who have face the reality would need
to second guess to see those that don't, or disparity in progress within black communities vs whites.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 what gave you the inclination that "blacks" (i use 'blacks' with precaution as the dictionary term defines as dark and wicked ) aren't intrinsically subjected to being oppressed - aren't we mindfully enslaved via our rather grotesque nature for mere material items?
JamRoca 1 year ago
@JamRoca , I see your perspective and understand the implication, but with all honesty "Whites" are obssessed with material things waaaay more than "blacks", yet they seem to trample "others" to get it, while blacks tend to trample each other, wreak havoc among themselves while STILL bowing at the whiteman's feet. Freedom to blacks is worse than slavery in it's destruction, because blacks are now able to buy houses,cars, screw around across racial lines etc, they think it's the pinnacle. SAD!
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
The CIA runs the drugs gangs.
xobyot 1 year ago
We know how you feel Children of Benyamin.Stand up Israel...Call upon the Most high Ahayah he hears our cries...
destroyinthelies 1 year ago
one of my cousin was chased in his yard and shot in front of his 5 year old son while his wife witness the entire thing from inside the home. After chasing him, they stood over his injured body and fired 5 shots in his head. cant stand to see innocent people get hust but nuff a the people in Tivoli know , dem know, better than I know. so chat like unnu dont know. Sometime a gun man send them fi demonstrate still, nuff land deh a country, move out. unnu love di freeness and passa passa. no more!
JamKick 1 year ago
@JamKick big talk yute, respect
Oats162 1 year ago
Journalist must be fair too, TG claim them nuh have crime, but that no mean criminal no live there. Them claim is not tunnel , but me know seh is a escape route. Me see video on TV wid man on top of the road block with high powered weapons. Law abiding my ass. Jamaica cant run so, the rule of law must be upheld. If a me, trust me, Tivoli would disappear. me loose two cousin to gun man rumored to be from that area, yes me a carry personal beef, but me hear seh police kill dem already still.
JamKick 1 year ago
Talk all u want, me a church man, an one of our Pastor said he went there before the raid by the joint military, and he said he never saw so much guns in his life. Dont agree with killing the innocent but nuff who deh pon di TV a criminal dem, a wash bloody clothes every night fi dem pickney. Ask JPS and NWC if they can go there and disconnect any utility before the raid. A wah so, me must pay and dem live free? Dem block road like seh dem a law unto themselves, no pity me nuh have.
JamKick 1 year ago
@JamKick says a LOT about "church people"....the evil that fester in your hearts. You are telling me that JDF & JCF do not have intelligent people on their staff that could come up with a better strategic plan? NO one is saying there are no criminals in TG. Lots of these women who wash bloody clothes etc were born into the cycle that the gov help to create, many of their sons are intimidated and force into crime by the Don that Gov support. Catch 22! Both TG & Gov need a thorough cleaning up
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
The JLP, PNP failed the majority of Jamaicans long time ago, especially the JLP
in my view . They done some good, but the bad overshadow the good.
They allowed crime and wickedness to fester and do nothing about it.
Any of the people of Tivoli who didn't see (and they did) the big failure of this colonial inherited system see it now. We are one Jamaica and people
regardless of political party, and that must be our main priority going forward.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger I agree. I sure do hope when the dust settles, all TV residents and other garrisons will forget about Politics, see the true picture and try to rebuild, focusing on "unity".
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 This is all about oil that was discovered last year in Jamaica not Dudus he was just a pawn, the real reason is that America wants the oil that was discovered and they created this diversion. For more information go to this website Negrilstories.ca wesite.
M47623 1 year ago
@M47623 , Thanks, I read the entire report/coverage....very interesting concoction.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 No I would like to thank you, the more people who are informed the better.
M47623 1 year ago
Comment removed
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 @Caribbeanprincess1 Yes i hope so too. There is a lot of pressing
issues that need to be tackle in the country, i hope the authorities make a concerted and sustain efforts to do so from here on, cause even they can
see what can happened in the long run because of their inaction's.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger they know this, but members of the gov focus will remain primarily on "self & immediate circle of friends and family"...they feel as long as they can hide money in offshore accounts etc and have reserves to flee the country if need be there's no need to worry about restructuring....They figure the poor ppl will be left behind to suffer and that's been the strategic plan from the beginning of time"the poor poorer" & "the rich richer"
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 The government need a purging, too much
a the colonial setup and legacy. We need a Marcus Garvey
type a gov. This is a task of the majority to bring to bring into
being. Too much of the problems that independence and emancipation
were supposed to correct are still lingering. We end up with the same
type a gov and people, (some with diffn't color) that our ancestor's
such as Garvey, Bogle, Sharpe etc. struggled against. What we got now
as gov and their backers is Edward Eyre
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger you've made some good points here regarding the colonial setup legacy. It seems black people have a fear of truly taking control of their own destiny. ALWAYS looking elsewhere for leadership. ALL predominently black countries so far look towards AMERICA etc...they're like puppets trying to please this great nation. Now with Obama in office some start thinking they can make world-class decesions, but STILL with simulation in mind & Obama is carrying on a legacy of deviances
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes most of the leaders of predominantly
Black countries after independence betrayed the movements
and ideology that got them to that point, and realign themselves
with the ex colonialists. People who think they are inferior are not confident to decide their own destiny. When Zimbabwe recently deviate from
that, ex colonialists countries all over seek to demonized the Zim
president.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger I'm really impress with your observations. It baffles me that so many blacks can't see the bigger picture. This evening I had a member of this forum sent me an email telling me that she wanted EVERYONE in tivoli to be killed because Dudus father tried to kill her mother who was also into politics years ago. Imagine, her mother was in the same political saga, yet she sees no problem with that because it provided a "good" life for her!, yet TG people who spoke out should be killed?
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 It look like she nuh realize that kind a
attitude is a big big part a the problem.
How would she feel if somebody want her dead
because someone from her community try to kill
somebody? That's the question she needs to ponder
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger, She clearly has the "Politics" mentality!! The same mentality that has ruined Jamaica....believe me, if the people don't wake up and strive for a different movement Jamaica will be in shambles. She bragged to me about going to prep school, living in gated community etc "all politically aligned", then say TG ppl need to help themselves. Her FAMILY got blood money and it's ok, but TG residents talking about Dudus should warrant death for an entire community. HYPOCRISY!!!
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 We need reconciliation
putting aside the political associated revenge seeking
and move forward as one, else we are going to bring about our total
destruction.She need to let go of her selfishness and have
more love for her fellow Jamaicans. And yuh know,
ignorance play a big part in these kind of attitudes.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger, this is powerful sentence you've written. i.e. "People who think they are inferior are not confident to decide their own destiny"!!!....I actually read this out loud :) so good to see someone else understanding and verbalizing this premise.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Thanks:) Yeah man, Marcus try to tell
us all these things, but it look like some of our people are quick
to forget the very instruments of their own liberation's.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 What many of our leaders don't seem to realize, is that
ex colonialists always going to put pressure on them, of which they must remain vigilant and steadfast and don't give in selling out their countries and people.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger, you're right, they need to be vigilant, but it seems they're becoming weaker and weaker...unless they truly decide to unite and move forward without the corruption, they will fail.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 True, whatever good for the country both
political party should support it.Because
without a common vision,aim and the will
to put those first the gov is weak indeed.
And to get even deeper with it - When the PNP
was formed and the JLP came after to opposed them,
they should have look for what they got in common that's
beneficial to the country and work together......
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger, I agree. See, it's more of a tribal approach i.e. I am with PNP, you are with JLP, so whenever either party is in power whom ever is not a member or a part of the "in-party" is deprived. I was having a conversation last night and I was telling someone it seems that gangs etc in western society is derived from the tribal mentality. This is my clique...and that's your clique", They don't look for what they have in common, instead they cling to differences and "war" over it.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Western society strive on divide
and rule concepts, which leads to many of the little "my clique
your clique" mentality, with little or no regards for the larger commonality.
Jamaica made a grave mistake and done a great wrong when the
country was polarized along political lines, and we reaped the bitter
rewards, and if we continue we are going to continue to reap the bitter rewards.
Jamaicans murdered and brutalized each other in the name of the JLP
and the PNP......
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Western society strive on divide
and rule concepts, which leads to many of the little "my clique
your clique" mentality, with little or no regards for the larger commonality.
Jamaica made a grave mistake and done a great wrong when the
country was polarized along political lines, and we reaped the bitter
rewards, and if we continue we are going to continue to reap the bitter rewards.
J'cans murdered and brutalized each other in the name of the JLP
and the PNP......
jack3finger 1 year ago
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jack3finger 1 year ago
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jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , you've summed it up. The political lines made a big impact as it regards to crime, anger & hate among Jamaicans. This darn JLP & PNP division. They would have been better off forming a CommonWealth....
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Caribbeanprincess1 ......Now we should engaged each other in the spirits
of mutual atonement and will to move forward
as one Jamaicans and one Black people
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 @Caribbeanprincess1 ,...Because what were they opposing? if its something
that's good for the country on a whole that the oppositions
are opposing, then they should not even got a chance to be voted
into power.Of course all of that takes an informed, aware
public. What Jamaicans must know is the whether its Dem or
REP, the USA foreign policy and most of their policies
remain the same....
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger , good point! good point! ;) They were opposing what was better for the country. See majority of people, even in America, england, canada etc where they're suppose to be more literate tend to hang on to propaganda, anything the media project or anything someone who's well dressed in a suit present to them. The presenter only needs to be confident and the idea is SOLD!! all psychology.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Yes I have notice the same with
with these countries that you mention. They put more importance
on outward appearances than inward substances, it doesn't matter
if you are lying or up to no good, long as you do it confidently, lol
Many Black people and Jamaicans need to know our selves and others, and who's outlooks we are subscribing to.
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger it's all about the "image"...it just needs to "look good", it doesn't need to "be good):) and that's the problem. Example: I traveled to Jamaica back in 99, had a suit on & was carrying my company laptop, the agents at the airport were bending over backwards to please me. Returning I put Jeans, slippers & a spaghetti strap blouse on. The treatment was completely different. I no longer had the oppressors image of success...SAD!!! I look younger than my age & this made it worse.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 It shows that some of our
people are so fool fool where people can just put on certain
suit marched in and deceived them!!
jack3finger 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 What were the status of women, children
and the poor in Jamaica's early African communities? we already
see that in 300 yrs there is only one or two murders in the
Maroon communities, and they don't even got police. What can we
learn from them? the descendants of a people who maintained
civilizations for 1000s and 1000s of years with little crime. Instead of some of our pl and leaders blindly fallowing a people who seek to colonized us for their
own benefits
jack3finger 1 year ago
@jack3finger, yet another good observation. The Maroons have almost nil murders within their communities. Although I indicated above about the "tribal mentality", the difference was in those tribes the elders were given respect and the community/village look out for each other, there was rarely any incident that was not resolve by bringing it before an elder. In the West, its interpreted differently, though subliminal. Yep, the problem is the quest to follow those who colonized us.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 "Yep, the problem is the quest to follow those who colonized us. " COSIGN, YES!!
jack3finger 1 year ago
The real reason for this whole incident in Jamaica (Tivoli Garden) is about oil, this website will give you a more indepth explanation Negrilstories.ca website.
M47623 1 year ago
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M47623 1 year ago
Jamaica is the playground of the CIA. This has nothing to do with Bruce Golding or Dudas. This has to do with destabilization and trauma. Jamaicans are strong people, we recover quickly from hurricanes and earthquakes, unlike Haiti. So they couldn't use that against us (yes, natural disasters can be stimulated), they had to send in the "Jackals". They've been doing this for decades.
How we recover from this will determine how they use this tactic in South and Central America. Just like the 80s.
BedStuyBro 1 year ago
One of the final points of "The Art of War" is, "the best way to win in a fight is not to fight"
So for people who have no military resources, as the common people do, the advice is: NEVER ENGAGE THE ENEMY
a bit more advice that may seem ridiculous:
* Never use the currency (or as little as possible)
* Never take a bank loan
* Never send your kids to school, teach them at home
* Never join the armed forces
* Plant your own food
* Don't take hand outs, or be prepared to lose that hand
BedStuyBro 1 year ago
On youtube place in -
*""Jamaican detainee's where used to move dead bodies from the riots{2010""*
forgothename 1 year ago
"deading"...lol i love my country
MrJama1ca 1 year ago
@MrJama1ca , that part was amusing to me too...even in the midst of their crisis there's that authentic comedic factor created from lack of opportunity for exposure, to finish school etc...my heart went out to her and what she's been through, but when she said "deading" I burst into laughter while tears was running down my face at the condition. glad I'm not the only one who caught that. lol. I LOVE jamaica, yet somedays I wonder why after all the disparity that I've witnessed.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
We need to find out what this "jungle juice" is that was given to the police and soldiers.
woodhavenblvd 1 year ago
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MsKisco 1 year ago
the guy with the accent is definitelly a deportee
pennyredfern 1 year ago
@pennyredfern he's maybe a deportee, but he dropped some knowledge regarding how stress can kill and how environment contribute....I liked his delivery. Those people only need "opportunity"and coming to America is not necessarily the answer.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
that lady is right - black people won't know themselves till their backs are against the wall
lijit77 1 year ago
@lijit77 I hope they don't forget that after everything calms down. They need to leave politics alone and quite fighting each other.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
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izasaros 1 year ago
The police and soldiers are given a substance to drink call "jungle juice".
ridley1230 1 year ago
yow all i have to say is, a dem same one did say that they would die for dudus, not all of em are guilty but not all are innocent, just another example that the good will suffer for the bad
rockleevsgai 1 year ago
Tivoli Gardens remind me of Cite Soleil in Haiti
srecar6 1 year ago
Jamaicans.........people of TG: mi a pray fi unu!
sistaloulou 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
for those who feel da JCP is serving justice...copy n paste this address (tivoli n surrounding community casualties in may pen cemetery)...!!!!LOOK AT FAN PHOTOS BENEATH!!!!!
facebook.com/TivoliOperation#!/TivoliOperation?v=photos
remo006 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
for those who feel da JCP is serving justice...copy n paste this address (tivoli n surrounding community casualties in may pen cemetery)...!!!!LOOK AT FAN PHOTOS BENEATH!!!!!
facebook.com/TivoliOperation#!/TivoliOperation?v=photos
remo006 1 year ago
bygojohn: You need to learn English before you accuse the correspondent of taking sides. When the reporter said "THESE" it means THESE PEOPLE HERE AT THE SCENE OF THE REPORT. Now, if the reporter had said WE or US then that would mean that she is including herself as one of the residents and would make your point correct but THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
izasaros 1 year ago
@izasaros Tsk tsk, it is very clear to me you have misunderstood what I was alluding to. Thanks sweetrayatgmail, maybe you have made things easier for it to decipher. Hopefully izasarass will be educated.
bygojohn 1 year ago
Bad enough this correspondent is trying to use a Dianne Sawyeresque voice to report this video. What was worse for me is her violation of the first rule in journalistic reporting. DO NOT TAKE SIDES. You cannot take sides with an issue and she did that when she said 'these are the voices of those who lived through the horror of watching people killed as security forces worked on restoring order...'. MISTAKE, do not take sides.
bygojohn 1 year ago
btw, just to be clear, my problem with all this is that ur all blaming government and police as if there the only ones at fault. The lawless members of Tivoli did all this to protect one man. One man is at the center of all this. If this one man chose to, none of this would have passed. Yet ur all sitting here in true Jamaican style blaming the government. The JLP and TivoIi have a loooooooooooooooooooooong history together. I dont believe in blame games. That gives no answers, just more quarrel
Oats162 1 year ago
@Oats162 this was never about "blame"...It was and still is about "facts" regarding what took place. So no, no one is here blaming the security with tunnel vision. People saw the violations that took place and are responding accordingly. In this incident law enforcement and the government were WRONG!! for everything else you've written, the "true Jamaican style blaming the gov" of which you speak was incited by the gov proving to be inadequate.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 if you were in charge of the police, what would your strategy be in order to gain control of the situation? I just don't understand why people blame the police, they doing their job in a very hostile and dangerous situation. I can just imagine what the chaos and lawlessness,if the police did nothing. Blame Dudus and the Prime Minister
pennyredfern 1 year ago
@pennyredfern it is very simple. The head of the JCF and the JDF are acclimated with these situations, the PM isn't. He gave an order. It is for the JCF & JDF to come up with a strategic plan and tell the PM that what he's asking for will result in a massacre so give them a bit more time to come up with a proper plan. They have the right to advise the PM although he has more say. If they MUST go in, there was still no need to kick in doors to kill residents! some killings were totally avoidable
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 it seems to me the goverment was taken by surprise by the verosity and intensity of the gang members.They were determined to go to war the goverment, so it seems a little unrealistic to meet to discuss strategy while police stations were burning, and people being killed. No country can prosper when criminal elements take over-that's just chaos and anarchy. I think the govmt were caught by surprise.
pennyredfern 1 year ago
@pennyredfern Anarchy? C'mon, Tivoli had a close relationship with heads of Gov, this is not about Tivoli wanting to run things, it's about the Gov wanting to silence people in Tivoli for fear of exposure. EVeryone knew Dudus was NOT in Tivoli before the invasion. If anything government was surprise that some of the ppl decided to voice their opinion and or fight back. The primary criminal elements are government officials and members of law enforcement.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@pennyredfern by all means, something needed to be done to improve the lives of Tivoli residents and eradicate some criminals, but this was by far the worst way to handle it.
Caribbeanprincess1 1 year ago
@Caribbeanprincess1 Ur comments seem to ignore the fact that the police operation official begun on Monday, but on Sunday night after the Rupublic of Tivoli finished fortifying their streets with blockades and collecting weapons, they launched a pre-emptive strike shooting up and burning down police stations FORCING the hand of the security forces and government officials FORCING the PM to send the country into a STATE of EMERGENCY. Nothing more could have been done in this event.
Oats162 1 year ago
@Oats162 i see your perspective, but it's not quite accurate. Lots of discussions went on and they found that the Gov had decided to disregard the laws of Jamaica that would give Dudus "due process"....they are use to the government and security forces killing their children and harassing them without a reason. There was no trust. Their defence mechanism kicked in, thus they barricaded etc. Things could and can be done!! officials chose not to...even reporters are bias