To push or not to push... Stephen Maguire, Welsh Open 2007

[Mitjitsu]

It doesnt' look like a push, but it does seem like a push based on the way the white traveled.

[ginner321]

It's not a push, although it really looks like one. Imagine the non-object red isn't there, and imagine the speed the ball would travel towards the center pocket? Now imagine if it also near-instantly glances the other red? It will have a lot of momentum still, but it will have straightened up. Not a push.

[1478ball]

you gotta be blind or know nothing about snooker if you think that is not a push shot!! jan varhass not to call that has gone down in my books, its 100% no doubt clearly a fluke, look how to cueball travels lol , this video is only poster for idiots who like to debate, for a snooker player is soo clear its not worth mentioning again!!

[1478ball]

obviously a push shot

[mwashinski]

It's not a push shot. It's a double hit.

[1478ball]

@mwashinski a push shot is classed as a double hit

[sarbasov]

definitely a push. I wonder why referee did not see it, because cueball cannot move forward so intensively without pushing.

[timmy2000devil]

deffo a push!

[ccfook2123]

a push shot..... im sure

such a short distance between the cue ball and red ball for cue to follow through

[ccfook2123]

a push shot..... im sure



[jwiblin10]

Its obvious that its a push

[JamieWilliamsAus]

push. he is to close to the reds to get that much follow thru power. 

[divinxoii]

hai u it was push because he was trying to play follow .if u have played befor u will now what is the follow .the follow not move immediately move after impact of the cueball in red .the cueball will stop for moment and move that is the follow .and it was foul and it wasnt follow. and it was push.. this is just my view of it

[2itinter]

everybody is saying that it is a push shot... honestly, what is a push shot?

[Mitjitsu]

@2itinter A push shot is when the cue, white and object ball are all in contact at the same time.

[Anonomousxxx]

no push idiots

[the147break]

a push shot is when there is a connection betweek your cue to the object ball

suppose:

when his cue ball has a contact with the object ball , while his cue has a contact to the cue ball too

so its called "push shot"

[147FAIZAN]

100% push shot

[iqrarahmad]

PUSHED........................­......

[255carlito]

yeah its a push shot. even if he is trying not to follow thru.

There is no way you can get the white ball move the way it does here,playing a correct shot. clear push shot

[diablogtkaran]

that aint a push shot. look at his cue, hes not dragging his cue forwards with the white ball... he hits the white and drags his cue straight back towards him. (it would be a push shot if the cue followed the white ball)

[MrWoody222]

clearly a push shot you cant get the cue ball to react like that from that close without doing a push shot

[Maynard147]

What absolute nonsense. Stop making stuff up to defend your hero, that was a push all day long. If the cue ball jumped it would have gripped the cloth after about 2-3 inches then screwed back. Clearly you've never played on west of England number 10 or their superfine cloth or you wouldn't have posted such dribble.

[threerail83]

I do not see a push nor a double hit on the cue ball. From my point of view, the angle off the first ball of contact combined with the bottom spin and downward stroke caused the cue to jump while rotating backwards. This "hopping roll" after moment of contact allowed the cue to "skip" forward. This is further proven by the cue balls reaction after contacting the cushion. The backwards rotation becomes forward rotation after contact with the cushion. My call is No Foul.

[ciecinsh]

push shot by a pussy

[1478ball]

@JoaoSnookerPT its not hard to judge. its the easiest thing to judge in the world...if the ref cant spot that he needs shouting

[DiluteMeDown]

no way would he have got that cue ball movement if it wasnt a push...

[nhuggy]

100% push shot

[jackal575]

Maguire is a cheeting cunt....... That was the most obvious push shot i have ever.

[yorkcounty]

I understand the principle of a push shot, but I argued with my snooker friend [of 24yrs] that I played a similar shot to the one played that it could not be a push shot.I did feel that I would have known myself. My friend is part sighted and I would never dream of being dishonest,so what do you do under these circumstances? I would appreciate a professional opinion.

[tm1996tm2]

push shot

[xGoC]

Whats a push shot?

[R0mai]

use google...

[SnookerWahrheit]

PUSH!

[ARSEABOUTFACE]

TBH, I've looked for a while now and I cant decide. In a lot of these cases, the Ref will make a decision based on the sound that is made by the cue touching the white touching the object ball all at the same time. Its an unmistakable sound. We dont get that benefit.

An honest player will feel this in the cue and call it... I think in this situation, the ref gave the player the benefit of the doubt, thinking Macguire would call it himself.

Its too close to call without sound though, IMHO.

[HengistTheGreat]

It's a push shot.

[georgieboy1000]

that was an obvious foul and simomax 147 you were spot on with your comments mate.

[levith1992]

foul

[elrick2kay7]

jan varhass is one off the best referees in snooker today so i think he would off known if it was a push or no and he didnt call a foul so it obvouisly wasnt a push

just my view off it

[vladbor1]

This is the push shot for sure.

P.S. Lots of top spin? Cannon into the second red ball happened in the full face contact and the runthrough without any stop and go with acceleartion just impossible (and this criteria never met here) .

[kevinleverne]

He pushed it no question. After contact the red and the cueball are moving at the same speed. The cueball should have paused slightly after contact before spinning forward on a legal shot.

[pr0tax]

lol... seems to me like someone is jealous that he never reached the top 256 players ;)

[simomax147]

i was once world No132 the main tour is not 256 but 96!!! and it was 5years ago i cannot remember if i was jealous or not and of whom? im more proud than jealous. but i stick to the 8ball these days. as i can excel more than i could in snooker.

[pr0tax]

i didn 't say it was 256 for the 'main tour' as you put it, to be regarded as a professional in the snooker world you have to be in the top 256... so the theory goes. If you was 132 why give up? who are you? would you like to PM?

[simomax147]

i only didnt reply as ur comment showed you no nothing, i no you didnt say it was 256 for the main tour i didnt say u did!! but its only the main tour who has a ranking as the challenge tour was axed a few years ago now!! so the theory dont go, it wonders how you diside who is world No1 234 for instance? i gave up coz they axed the challenge tour which made me a non pro... and i was better at 8ball then snooker

[1478ball]

simmo don't need to be jealous he is a quality player!! how can people on this site think that aint a push shot?? lol, course it is no question as kevin says.. :)

[simomax147]

you have gave me an idea, ill stick by. i will upload the same vid with and without demonstrated....the white is 1 ince from the object ball, altho you cant and dont normaly see the double hit/push can you garrentee by watchin the video the cue does not move through the white more than an ince? i cant see!!!! coz if it did the white would of flew off the "cushion":) (CAN SPELL IT NOW TY) fuckin simula do it did in this vid funny enough:S and if it wasnt a push the ill love to no how he done it

[simomax147]

i wrote ince again lol, i give up 2am shattered

[rit73]

judgement on this for us.

So as I have have come up with this brilliant idea then I think it is up to you to email them and then post the video on here if they answer it for us on air.

If you do not I will assume that you are not confident in your opinion and will take this not to be a push shot after all.

So come on, prove me wrong buster!

[simomax147]

what makes me giggle is u got nothing to go on so you entertain yourself with me miss typing....when really you dream of being as good as me at cue sports? stop me if im wrong? i have proved with my facts that its a push shot? now come on your really cant see that can you...13ft from 1 inch...stun...1 direct movement instread of spinning of with top...now come on think about it...i would love to insult but really it pointless. but come on m8 look at the shot and think about what i said:S:S:Sffs

[rit73]

I don`t think you should post any more comments , you are just making yourself look a bigger clown everytime you speak.

Just stay at home , be quiet and I will send you a big hat with a D on it to keep your head warm in this cold winter weather.

[simomax147]

i wasnt good enough to make it no, as the axed the challeng tour the pro tour i was on, aint i was not good enought to make it on the main tour. r u good enough to make it? just coz i got close it makes me a bum does it? and yeah i play pool now i alway have played pool its a cue sport:S and im fucking good. y does that mean im a bum? sorry i missed spelt btw :) most 7year olds can spell inch i bet. and its a push shot read my facts it makes sence.

[rit73]

The famous footballer Paul Inch ahahaahahhaahahaa. You loseerrrrrrr.

[simomax147]

what r u on about btw? stay at home n that? just coz you think thats a push shot, i wont stay at home. saturday im playing footie..sunday im playin poool for sussex in brighton and wenesday im playin pool in essex against a surprize english pool player who is in the top 5 but im not aloud to no as my sponsor says:) my life is good tyvm and my gf is..well..she is nice ;) my life couldnt be better.....the only thing im interested in is this push shot, so stop the sad insults n prove thats a push?

[pr0tax]

I am on the main circuit just FYI... and I wouldn't call a push shot here either.

Simomax, you should also know if you are a 'pro' as stated, that a push shot is when the cue ball is still making contact with the cueball AFTER it has hit the object ball. Here, that is not the case.

[simomax147]

lol thats wrong protax,and or dont make sence!! dont tell me what i should no with ur bad comments plz....A push stroke is a foul and is made when the tip of the cue remains in contact with the cue ball (1) when the cue ball makes contact with the object ball, or (2) after the cue ball has commenced its forward motion. Provided that where the cue ball and an object ball are almost touching, it shall be deemed a legal stroke if the cue ball hits the finest possible edge of the object ball.

[simomax147]

protax or the other 2 idiots you so stupid this is actully anoying me now. No1 he is 1ince. so he didnt push the cue more than an ince no so ok it wasnt a push shot no? so then with 1 ince gap and less then an ince of top spin he span it 13ft?? ok kl. with using stun?? ok. and the ball didnt stop and spin off when he played it with all that top spin. it just shot off??? no push shot tho??. all my life i have learn alot about this rule, and sorry lads but this 1 aint even close to not being

[rit73]

look mate you can`t spell cushion and now you have proved in full view to everyone that you are a complete and utter retard who can`t spell the word inch! Oh my god, most seven year olds can spell inch, and you have the cheek to call us stupid!!!

You are just a turd who wasn`t good enough to make it as a professional snooker player and now just plays pool in bars all day.Get to the job centre.

I wonder if you even know the rules of pool now because you certainly don`t know the rules of snooker.

[simomax147]

now this is gonna be my last 1 as its the weekend. stop ur insults now as it never will, stop tryin to tell me how i live my life as you dont no me. everything i has said is just simple facts, if you cant see thats a push shot then thats ur prob ill leave you to it. and also y tell me i dont no the rules of snooker:S when have we stated rules, and how would i not no them? stop making stuff up and show me facts plzz

[rit73]

Ok, let`s get this straight first - you did not mistype (it`s mistype not misstype lol), you spelt inch wrong several times, a word that most seven year olds could spell. So that does not say much for your general level of intelligence.

Now, if you are still so sure that this is a push shot, god only knows why, there is one way in which we can settle this once and for all.

As the Masters is on the BBC at the moment I`m sure that they would be quite willing to answer an email and make a

[simomax147]

glad i cleared that up till you crazy fools come back for more haah. not a push shot??? fucking retards. stop tryin to tell m i no it is ok??? i can see the magic cue ball flyin off with stun 13ft from an ince in 1 movment hehehehehe loooooooooooooooooooook ffs.................... AND I FORT ID ASK! WHAT IS THE MAIN CIRCUIT?

[rit73]

i can`t believe i just watched your video in full.

What a foul-mouth you got mate, i lost count of the number of f-words.

A failed snooker professional wannabe, that`s all you are. Go back to your council flat and enjoy vodka on your cornflakes every morning.You are going nowhere. Cussions ahahahahaha.Dumbass.

[simomax147]

that video was 6years ago, :) rit73 at the end of the day, im better than you will eva be. and i dont play snooker any more but pool :)

[simomax147]

carry on from the other vid.....i tryed looking at things from your point altho i no its a push, but as you can see by the points i made thats its impossable to play that shot without pushing it...i dont care what you say as i no, my facts r correct as this has come up when i was a kid and i have learned over the years with my coaching....and rit just coz i dont play snooker anymore and aint on tv dont mean i drink vodka at 7am, i wait till the afternoon :P hehe ill upload a vid to shut u up k

[rit73]

even lynette could beat you. Now PUSH off.

[simomax147]

sorry i wont get into a debate with a nobody who thinks that aint a push shot you obviously no nothing so im finshed, but if you want coaching at £20 an hour get back to me, but we will need to start at the very begining it seeeeems haha, nah fuck this im off to eat them having a set with jimmy robertson.........

[rit73]

i won`t get into a debate with someone who claims to make a living from this sport but is never on television, does not even know the rules of the game and can`t even spell the word cushion.

[rit73]

my mates lee clough and dave chalmers would kick your ass at pool and i would kick your ass at snooker, push boy.

[simomax147]

hehe play watch the video again and if you have made a break over 8 you should no the difference. put a ball an inch away and play it with topspin 13ft, if it goes 3ft u win

[rit73]

Why have you posted this video. It`s totally clear that there is no push shot just a lot of top spin. There are a lot of people commenting on here that clearly know very little about snooker.

I guess you took the sound off because then everyone would hear there is no foul as well as see it.

[simomax147]

rit73 i dont no if you wrote that comment to wind people up, or you clearly are that stupid. do you think its possible being 2inchs from the object ball playin top spin 13ft. and using stun...i cant believe im stupid enough to explain that to you you dumb arse

[simomax147]

as you put its totally clear that there is no push shot!!!??" lol and my break is 0. btw im on the main tour :)

[rit73]

yeah, the main tour of the neighbourhood bars.

[simomax147]

and that yes

[rit73]

not AND the main tour of the neighbourhoods bars, this is the ONLY tour you are or ever will be on.

[simomax147]

and im still better than lee:) bet ur best bud's ay

[1478ball]

hahahahahhahah rit73 i just read all your comments on this video and simomax147, simmo is a top top player btw!1 anyway, this 1 is the best from the start! ""Why have you posted this video. It`s totally clear that there is no push shot just a lot of top spin. There are a lot of people commenting on here that clearly know very little about snooker""" (you)..this is not even close to not being a push shot, i have never seen as clear push shot as that. some idiots on here lol

[thesnookerplanet]

This is unbelievable. How Jan Verhaas, a top class referee, didn't see the push ?? And how Maguire, a snooker player (snooker is one the sports with more fair play and sportsmanship), didn't announced his foul ??

[thesnookerplanet]

*didn't announce

[pwnagenuss]

i dont get it:P

[BestBuddy16]

why don't you declare a push shot stephen?a player always know when fouls and of course if someone made a push shot.disappointed by stephen 100 per cent foul

[wab168]

cue ball, tip and object ball hit together. I assume that should be a push shot

[jimmylibertine]

id say push shot, just by the speed the white goes through, i dont think hes capable of monstrous top spin like that ;) lol

[yjin25]

is push shot for sure!

[thesnookerplanet]

foul stroke

[Roflaids]

Hey you dirty faggots this was not a push shot. Learn to fucking watch and judge: HE DIDN'T PLAY TO THE SECOND RED DIRECTLY. HE DID A CANNON FROM THE FIRST RED TO THE SECOND SO HE DOESN'T PUSH IT.

[pistolpeeroy]

shut up u stupid cunt...i dont fink u really understand do u mate?? so him playin the canon means it wuz not a push shot??? stupid lil gongloid...ava anotha look n see if u get it right that time.....im not sayin its a foul cuz its hard to tell...not bein able 2 hear it dnt help eitha....but ur comment doesnt make n e sense wot so eva...thick cunt

[Roflaids]

and the nigger-chav-jew strikes again with his stupid motherfucking slang and internet language. please go get some cancer.

[pistolpeeroy]

damn right!

[simomax147]

haha roflaids ur clearly clueless, its not even close to not being a push shot, it takes an idiot to think its not....hehe

[Roflaids]

you complete and utter cunt go away. You think you know better than Jan verhaas who happens to be the best referee in the world? Or you think you know better than Eirian Williams who was watching the match on TV and even after the replay he didn't call the foul?

[simomax147]

i dont think, boys this is gettin silly. maybe u 2 r good enough to play that with that much top spin to come off to cussions, without the spin from where the balls where so close and using stun!! hehe dont be jealous roflaids, if you think that aint a push shot then you have never watched or played snooker. ill stick to playin u stick to leaving retarded comments, plz dont reply as ill have to charge you for these lessons boy

[simomax147]

Roflaids i may be a complete and utter cunt,but i do this for a living and ur on every snooker page with ur comments, do ur a fan of what i do, but the crazy thing is ur convinced ur right and it aint even a close call, plzz try the shot or ask some1 who has a brain, i wont even ask for a sorry!!! no i wonder i really do what you can reply?? entertain me plz with ur insults? :) ill put it down to jealous

[simomax147]

lol, 100% push shot, no question,

[estevesovsky147]

poor jan verhaas

[spitipater]

I think It was push shot, because cue ball shouldn´t go so quickly in this case. And second, he played with low bottom spin, so cue ball should get slowly when it hit the red. Cue ball was moving TOO quickly in my opinion. Very quickly, but it is still controversial, and I am not sure for 100% too. I only think

[pistolpeeroy]

good analysis spitipater u da man

[chippyjustincredible]

actually i dont think it is a push shot having said all that. Cueball takes a different line to his cue when it cannons off 2nd red. if it was a push the white would go on the line of the cue! my bad

[simomax147]

chippy you was right the first time

[chippyjustincredible]

unbelievable. he played the shot with stun aswell which meant the white would have stay up the baulk end.and even if he played with top spin the white wouldve gripped the cloth first before taking off! cant believe ref missed it. And i guarantee maguire knew it was a push.

[jockeydef]

definitely a push shot! absolute disgrace, anyone who plays snooker knows when they have done one, he should have owned up to it.

[Snookerjunkie]

Yes.

[StEllAStEvEnS]

well I am shocked. The behaviour of the white after impact make it absolutley certain that it was a push.

How the ref and the player didn't call it is beyond me.

[millerest86]

i bet it was that slut that was refereeing and she was too busy rubbing her clit to notice

[purdie05]

im nt quite sure but if i was the referee i would of been closer to the shot to judge but i thought definately at 1st and in my mind its a push shot

[simomax147]

purdie thats a bad comment, you dont have to be close as you cant physicaly see the push. but you can see it is a mile away be the reaction of the white

[rit73]

simomax . I am not going to argue with someone who has a highest break of 0. You are a fool.

[simomax147]

my video shows my 3-back to back centry's when i was 15 and my playing steve davis im 23 now with 13 maximums under my belt in match play. no listen and learn nothing

[PelicanFrost]

3. Previous posts note the speed of the white being too high. However the reds seem to be atleast twice the speed thus causing no issue.

4. No recoil of the cue.

[01592874506]

ha gayboy

[PelicanFrost]

IMO not a push shot.

1. the angle that the CB comes off the reds is different to the angle of the cue.

2. The easiest ways to identify a push are the (thickish) sound it makes and the feel of it for the player. Clearly the ref has no problem with the sound and I would hope that Maguire would not continue if he knew that he had fouled (also his body language seems to have no element of guilt)

[03361201]

it's definitely a PUSH SHOT!

[leos147]

if wasnt a push why did the cue ball move so rapidly after it hit the red. so i think it was defenatily a push!!!

[justthe9]

i know, tommytrickshot is absolutely correct. Luck1au, next time u play a shot your self, take time to notice where the tip of your cue finishes in relation to the cue balls starting point. As maguire hit the 1st red, the cue was still travelling forwards. With the second red as an obstruction, it was inevitable that the cue would strike the cue ball a 2nd time, therefore generating the pace to allow the cue ball to travel so far.

[tommytrickshot]

what is Luck1au on about?

[tommytrickshot]

thats a definite push shot, its impossible to generate the amount of topspin needed for the cue ball to move forward at that speed so quickly after it makes contact with the object ball,

[RufusCrime]

You can see how he is touching the cue-ball two times !

[yjin25]

that 100% a push shot!!

[colincolenso]

The CB speed is clear evidence of a double hit here. Also, the CB should have deflected at 90 degrees initially from the 2nd red, but it runs straight through at about 65 degrees.

[1fluker]

if you were to put some side to kick the "left red" into the potting angle, you definately wouldn't be hitting it at that pace, AND to have the white traveling as fast as the 2 reds which the white had just had its pace taken out by 2 balls which totally is "DOUBLE" its weight, is impossible, and if you are thinking about "top spin", where is the "delay spin" of the white that you would expect, after the white hitting something twice its weight, being played on double shaved cloth?

[1fluker]

have you guys seen the trick shot where you have an object ball obstructed by other balls which at first sight seem impossible to pot, but with some quick hands by PUSHING through the white, you miraculously pots the object ball that WAS obstructed? I see some similarity here, the potting angle of the red on the left seems to be obstructed by the red on the right...

[kasusknaktus]

100% a push-shot

[pupspudding]

thats a push shot! Murphy should have gone 2:0 up and win the other frames!!!

[ytjingkoo]

definetly a push shot

[burfodus]

right hand side, what a load of crap! imaging the same shot but with 8 inches of distance between cueball and object balls, you hit both balls and the white runs fowrward with top spin, or any spin. BUT if this was the shot you would witness a delay for the white to run forward, there is no delay present here. its impossible to SEE a push shot, but not impossible to determine if there was one. NO WAY could the white travel forward as fast as the object ball.

[supersuj]

Mcs, i kind of disagree with your point. Even after observing this vid in slow motion it is impossible to determine if that was a push. A little right side with cue power could have generated the same result as you mention..anyways..thnx for the upload

[mcs040303]

I see your point but I don't agree. Just look at the angles. After the contact with the second red (the one closer to us) the angle between the directions of white and the red should be 90 degrees. The red is crossing the long axis of the table, so the white should go away from the baulk line. Top spin could later curve the path of the white but it's not the case here. In my opinion the cue tip must have nudged the white a little after or during the contacts between the balls.

[slug182]

that wasn´t a push shot, the white went forward because it collapsed into the other red and changed directions, maguire was aware of the situation and so was the referee. Anyway, tks for the upload! Great stuff, keep the new stuff coming

[1478ball]

slug182 first comments on this video!! and first idiot spotted!! dont worry it aint just you :P