either way, whether it is nature/nurture or science, once you go gay you can never go back, so the moral of the story is you cannot choose to go gay or straight. i know so many gay people who beg, pray hope and cry to become straight and there are people out there who carry on believeing on day they will be straight by living a miserable life and marrying a woman/man they don't find attractive but still wait to turn straight. it just doesnt happen and gays dont choose to be gay. end of story.
By the way Dean Byrd is NOT a great guy to quote on scientific facts. His statement that researchers who have attempted find a biological cause for homosexuality have "admitted that they failed" is a blatant LIE. Dean Byrd is a creep of the highest order. He's a very sleazy man who is now President of NARTH and once led Evergreen International another "Ex-Gay" oriented group. He is a long way away from mainstream psychology. The man is a crackpot.
Fact there is no consensus among many (not all) scientists as to what causes orientation including heterosexuality. There is, however, mounting evidence proving that homosexuality is both biologically as well as environmentally based. It is the interaction between biology and environment that tends to influence the formation of sexual orientation. Biology sets the stage for it. I am a man who is both LDS & Gay. I am also legally married to my LDS husband. I never chose my orientation.
@DefendingMormonism You claim you have several gay friends, but really... You characterize their orientation as a fleeting aspect of mortality, a mental illness that shouldn't have been reclassified by the APA. No friend would tell you that the love you feel for your significant other stems from a deficient mental condition. Also quoting bigots like Dr. Byrd is not friendly to gay people. Sadly, you're on the wrong side of history and, even more sadly, you're the last to realize.
Oh, yes, the Family Research Council, one of whose founders, George Alan Rekers, caused quite a little brouhaha a while back when he hired a male prostitute to go on vacation with him to handle his package, err, I mean luggage, whilst he was on holiday.
One thing that really seems to scare Mormons is when you mention the movie "Latter Days" in connection with Mormon missionaries or when you mention "8: The Mormon Proposition" at all. Those movies seem to frighten them. Maybe, they are worried that people will watch them, use their brains and really start to think.
"The church calls on those involved in the debate over same sex marriage to act in the spirit of mutual respect and civility towards each other. No one on either side of the question should be vilified, intimidated, harassed, or subject to erroneous information." ... THAT'S my Church
James E . Faust quote is just amazing. He was inspired by God when he said it. "Our society is the sum total of what millions of individuals do in their private lives. That sum total of private behavior has worldwide public consequences of enormous magnitude. There are no completely private choices (Faust, James E. Sep 1995 Ensign pa ges 2 - 7)
This kind of "agitprop" is really so sad. One thing the Mormons are good at is deflecting the grim light of reality from their leaders back onto whomever they have targeted as a malignancy within the body of America. If it is not the black community, it is the democratic base. If not politics, they target gays. What the Mormon Church does not realize is that its fundamentally erroneous religious stances are always forged in a foundry of parishioners' money. The Mormon Church all but entirely...
...funded the court battle against the upholding of the ruling on Proposition 8 in California. The LDS church loves to decry political affiliation unless/until politics becomes a germane and "savvy" interest to forwarding the mission statement of the church. This was so when the church outlawed polygamy, by force of the federal government. It was so when it was no longer PC to keep blacks from holding the priesthood, so a change was made. Mormons are not anything if not conformists to the...
...laws of the land, so I suppose they can be credited for being law abiding. Nevertheless, as their flock tithes ten percent of their wages each month to the Church, the flock should know where that money is being spent. In the past three years, that money has been spent lobbying Congress in an effort to sway the "popular" vote amongst conservative puppets within the fold. It pays to be a Congressman who has good ties to the Church, of that there can be no doubt. I wonder, when everything...
...is said and done, and the Supreme Court rules that gays are entitled to the same rights that their heterosexual counterparts enjoy, if the Mormons will adhere to the High Court's ruling, as it has done so earnestly in the past, or if the obligatory hatred and malice towards what is nothing short of a recognized minority will continue. It will be interesting to see how that pans out. It is just a matter of time before this is elevated to the Supreme Court. Lobbying tends to fail at that point.
This video completely skips over the fact that a Mormon prophet said that people are "better off dead than gay" which prompted a suicide epidemic on BYU's campus and across the country.
Okay, so marriage is out...how about civil unions, with all the benefits of regular marriage for LGBT people? What's your take on that, since the church doesn't have one?
"There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Our further concern is that the positions espoused by NARTH and Focus on the Family create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish."
In 2006 the APA, who you quote in the video, released a statement saying: "For over three decades the consensus of the mental health community has been that homosexuality is not an illness and therefore not in need of a cure. The APA’s concern about the positions espoused by NARTH and so-called conversation therapy is that they are not supported by the science."
This video did not make me smile. Why is it fitting to use the music of Jonsi and Alex? Any gay couple would be horrified to hear their music used as the soundtrack for this video.
I find it fitting that you used a popular Icelandic gay couple's music for this video. It made me smile.
I find the whole debate about same sex marriage rather silly. I feel if it were to be legalized nation wide, there should also be laws protecting churches for refusing to hold ceremonies for gay couples. Every church's rights are just as important as individual rights.
If there were no legal benefits to marriage over civil unions, I'd say stop gay marriage, but that isn't the case.
@DrTerminus own to do that, that's fine. But don't start bitching at people who don't follow what in your opinion is bad. It's between a person and god who that person loves, and you should keep your nose out of it. Mormons have always been homophobic and proud of it, I don't need your blatant lies about how you're not, and then to be insulted for defending a group of human beings.
I have carefully written down the quotes included in this video. They reveal much about the homosexual agenda. One very revealing notation is the casting of votes by the APA to remove homosexuality as a diagnostic category making it the first time in health care that a diagnosis was made by popular vote rather than by scientific evidence!
I do believe the Mormon stance on marriage is that it's between a man, a woman, a woman, and a woman. I'm obviously joking... I live in a heavily mormon area (I have since I was 4 and I'm now 16) and I'm still atheist as ever. I've never even considered joining up with you cultists. You'd think that if it really were the true religion and it's so obviously so that I'd have realized that by now without the customary brainwashing each of the 12 children from a mormon family undergo.
@Jet7445 It appears that you have mastered the art of knowing the contents of many volumes of books by merely driving by a library. Living in an area where there are lots of Mormons does not automatically grant you special knowledge about them. I invite you to set aside your prejudice and go learn about their beliefs. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
@DrTerminus And it appears that you have mastered either the art of blind stupidity, or assumption. I have almost exclusively mormon friends so obviously I'm not prejudice by any definition of the word, I have actually attended church (including sunday school and everything a normal 10 year old mormon would go through) with my mormon friend out of curiosity. My pleasant surprise was, as I said, brainwashing and propaganda. Now stop assuming, it only hurts your cause.
@Jet7445 Well, that's a tremendous breakthrough. You actually stepped inside the library and now you automatically know what's inside all the thousands of volumes lining the shelves, eh? Attending a meeting or two out of curiosity does not make you an authority on any church nor any subject. It is very curious indeed why you wouldn't want to dig in and learn all you could learn so that your utterings would be supported with some facts, not knee-jerk impressions.
@DrTerminus While I never said I knew everything (I don't even think I implied it) I found it much too stuffy in the library and I decided to go out and write my own books, and learn from personal experience, not the "revelations" of man who lived 200 years ago. Jesus died on the cross for saying that I have a personal relationship with god, if there even is a god, so I figure I don't need apostles, bishops, or even presidents to intervene with that relationship. If you're too afraid of the unkn
@DrTerminus An ironic remark made on a video that is filled with subjective snippets of quasi-scientific musings. You talk of supported facts? The Mormon Church is an organization long bereft of legitimacy within the Christian "machine" that fuels America's religious malice against those who are "different." The LDS Church carries no more weight within the Christian community than do practitioners of Voodoo, yet it purports to be a paramount authority on the teachings of Christ? Facts indeed.
@Jet7445 After nearly 13 years of theological and ontological study, I am always reluctant to invoke the word "cult" in a discussion. However, I cannot help but invest in the premise that this church, much like the Church of Scientology, is nothing short of cult, and sadly, the variety of cult that is imbued with the most negative connotation of the word. It saddens me that you have chosen atheism at 16, but you are young. Maybe you will change your mind. Either way, we agree on this issue.
@MageSutek The obnoxiousness of the radical homosexual agenda is at odds with most of what constitutes a thriving, productive society. It is an extremely immoral, diseased lifestyle which vehemently opposes the moral standards which keeps civilization alive. It rejects EX-gays, flying in the face of thousands of examples that this destructive behavior can be changed. It pleads for "tolerance" but this is only a one-way tolerance. (I cite the treatment Dan Savage gave Rick Santorum.)
@DrTerminus This is a highly subjective stance and one that cannot be bolstered by facts, because there are none to be had. Constructed facts handed out by groups founded for the sole purpose of finding evil within a minority group are not facts considered legitimate outside the aforementioned groups looking for evil in all the politically convenient places. Frankly, I do not find the homosexual agenda any more radical than the Mormon agenda, which is quite blatantly obvious to most people...
...who are capable of thinking outside their own little box, which is not the overwhelming majority of Americans, but enough to keep the LDS in check so they do not destroy every aspect of life that does not conform to the parochial and puritanical thinking that went out with Nathaniel Hawthorne's Hester Prynne. The problem with "agendas" is that everyone has one, so they coincide with people on the polar opposite of the spectrum. I am quite familiar with the gay community in my city, and it...
...does not at all seem to be at odds with what constitutes a thriving and productive society. The gays that I know are educated, have good jobs, have loving families, attended expensive universities, are decorated within their respective professions, have kids, are spiritual, live ethical lives, abide by the laws of the land, do not murder or steal, drive decent cars, have nice homes, are well-spoken, have manners, and are quite friendly. If I had one criticism of the gays I know, it would...
...be their predilection for showing their heterosexual counterparts the respect that is denied them by those counterparts. It seems silly to keep coming back to people who kicked you in the teeth with the hope that they have changed their ways, but the homos I know have faith that their counterparts will someday shed their skins of ignorance and selfishness for the sake of being better human beings who have a desire to live in harmony with their neighbors. As far morality is concerned, I...
...do not think any Mormon is in a position to be spouting platitudes about what constitutes morality and what does not. Good old Warren Jeffs (a Mormon) is now going to die in prison because he liked porking underage girls whilst hiding behind the tenets of the Bible. Raping 13-year-olds is somewhat immoral in my view, and unbelievably, the US courts agree with me. "But the LDS church denounced Jeffs," you say. You can offer that up as a defense now, but where was your outrage when he...
...was setting up communes in three states and raping girls prior to his indictment? The LDS had nothing to say about Jeffs and his rape parlors until he was caught. Then suddenly he is an enemy of the church. He is suddenly a "fundamentalist" Mormon whose views are heterodoxical to those of "mainstream Mormons." Funny that they knew what he was all about and did nothing until his arrest and subsequent fall from grace turned the light on sectarian Mormonism. That is the old boys club...
...hard at work, isn't it; as long as you extirpate him now, you can wash your hands of any complicity. Sounds a lot like a famous Roman prefect from the Bible. He washed his hands during the course of atrocities as well. Anyway, I am thinking of the gays I know and whether they are diseased. I fear I do not know any diseased gays. Nor do their lifestyles breed disease as far as I can tell. They wash themselves, their clothes, their homes, their pets; it is weird, but I think it would be easy...
...to call out any group of people and say they are living a diseased lifestyle, Mormons included. "I am talking about STDs and AIDS," you say. Well, my response to that is that I happen to know more heterosexuals with AIDS than I do homosexuals. But that is just me. Yes, HIV/AIDS has devastated the gay community worldwide. But it has done the same to hemophiliacs, IV drug users, recipients of donor blood prior to 1987, the entire continent of Africa (heteros), and dumb straight people who...
...do not practice safe sex. Gays get the fallout because the virus first emerged in humans that were gay. Hell, I blame the bloody monkeys who bred the illness in the first place, but to each his own. Does the gay community oppose moral standards? I polled some of my gay friends. They happen to be quite moral people. Granted their morals may not be Mormon morals, but neither are my Catholic Benedictine morals the same as Mormon morals, yet I have lived a decent life in which I have found...
...living morally is a lot better than being an immoral hedonist. Morality is subjective, incidentally, especially if you are thumping your overly over-translated Bible and calling it sacrosanct. Slippery slope. The queers I know do not oppose morality. They oppose mistreatment and unkindness, but one might argue that that opposition is a moral opposition; does that not make them moral people for decrying immoral standings? Seems logical. I asked my gay friends if they buy in to reparative...
...therapy. They don't. But they are biased, so I asked my doctor friends. They do not. I stopped asking people after that because I do not either. Your thousands of examples of success (complete hyperbole) have been shot down by the APA, the AMA, the GMC in the UK, and every credible practitioner genuinely dedicated to the welfare of their patients. Presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann will lose the Republican ticket because of her husband's little clinic designed to "fix" people who really...
...are not broken. But because it is "hip" to purport that you can "counsel the gay away," people latch on even though they do not have any credible evidence that reparative therapy works. I can tell you what it does do: makes people feel like shit about themselves and the world around them. It does do that, so props if that is one of the side dishes that comes with the entree. Christ, even Bachmann's poster boy "counsel the gay away" turned on her and went back to penis after being "cured."
That must have been a blow to the movement. Tolerance is an important thing and I think the gay community seeks tolerance as much as it is willing to show tolerance. But like all things, it's a give and take. When you have been the whipping boy for as long as the homos have, tolerance is hard to put forth. Ask blacks, women, Indians, Mexicans, Muslims, Canadians, lexicographers; they all sought tolerance. Some got it in one form or another, most did not. Personally, I aim for acceptance. Fuck...
...tolerance. Tolerance is for cowards who are too scared to go up to someone and tell them how they really feel, so instead, they prop themselves up by saying, "I have gay friends, I have black friends, I have Muslim friends. I know what it is like and prejudice would never come between me and my friends." What a load of horseshit. The minute your "friends" do something that threatens your worldview is the minute you stop being tolerant. There is no such thing as tolerance. There is hatred...
...and there is acceptance. The middle ground is tolerance and no one likes to be in the middle of anything. They like to be accepted for who and what they are, irrespective of who they sleep with, what color their skin is, what god they kneel to, what books they read, with whom they choose to commune, and most especially who they choose to love. Love is the only thing that keeps this planet spinning and it is the only thing that will save it from its eventual sociogenic implosion. As far as...
...Savage and Santorum are concerned, I fear you citing them as a means to deride the gay community or to bolster your stance that to be gay is to invite perdition into your life is going to blow up in your face. Rick Santorum is one of the most disgusting cowards who has ever dared prop himself up for a run at the presidency, and I am ashamed that he holds a seat in government. When he denounced homosexuality by comparing it to bestiality, then said that he does not mean to pick on gay...
...people, he lost all credibility within the Republican Party and further sullied the institution of government and social competency for which the US is made fun of by every nation outside its borders on a daily basis. He is the lowest of the low, really, and for you to invoke his name simply reinforces my impression of you as a narcissistic fool who would sooner sell your firstborn for a chance to rid the world of all who YOU feel drag it down. Savage gave Santorum a dose of his own hate...
...and Santorum did not like the taste. As far as Savage is concerned, he is a hero, but not because he landed in a feud with Santorum, but because he began what is now the hugely successful viral campaign "It Gets Better." His actions kept confused teens from throwing themselves off bridges and blowing their brains out. He has saved lives through the network of support that stemmed from the campaign. What has Santorum done for anyone or anything anywhere? Not a fucking thing, unless you...
...equate hate mongering of gays and blacks as moving the country in the right direction. Dan Savage deserves the accolades he has gotten and I endorse the "It Gets Better" campaign with all my heart, as do countless millions of Americans, gay and straight. No one wants a young people in our country to die. Savage is a contributor. Santorum is a hate-filled boob whose days are numbered, in many ways. Next time you want to cite a case to bolster your cause, pick one that has some merit.
@MageSutek In discussing the issue at hand, your pages and pages of tirades are not impressive whatsoever. Unloading every little gripe and complaint is so very tiresome to read. It is good to get a drink of water from a drinking fountain, not a fire hydrant.
If you'd just like to settle down and take it one thing at a time, we can have a discussion.
@DrTerminus My comments were not really a tirade; one can only say so much in 500 characters and I wanted to make sure I addressed each one of your points. Besides, my intent was not to impress, at least not in the connotation you have presented the word. I sought to impress upon you an alternative and popular worldview that does not coincide with Mormonism. But should you find responses tiresome in the future, do not read them. As far as a discussion, I have no desire to treat with you, for...
Well done! You addressed every hateful point made by homophobic hatemongers herein, and you demolished them with facts and logic, one by one. I hope that I will see more of your comments in the future on other similar videos.
...doing so would accomplish nothing. You'll maintain rigid and unwavering stances that are nothing short of dictatorial hate mongering, and I will seek to break down your wall of intolerance. That will result in attacks and false claims, I really will need to "settle down," and the world will continue spinning on its axis with your bigotry fully intact. I did "take one thing at a time." I answered each of your claims. Also, do not presume to condescend; you lack the footing and the integrity.
@DefendingMormonism this video sucks. it doesnt matter what a RELIGION thinks about an issue like gay marriage, those not involved in their religion dont want their beliefs imposed on them and the mormons, as well as other religions, have no right to impose their beliefs on others. people should be allowed to do WHATEVER makes them happy, and if being gay makes them happy then they have EVERY fuckin right in the world to be that way and get married!
@potolover1 So..."people should be allowed to do WHATEVER makes them happy..." eh? That's such an easy, carefree statement to make and one hears it a lot but does anyone ever ponder of the consequences of such ignorance? One reason the world is in such upheaval is because of "moral relativity." And you just gave the definition. The problem is, what/whose standard are we going to use to determine where one's happiness threatens another person's happiness?
"Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. It is therefore not a choice."
why mormons, Why? Have You Tempting the Lord thy GOD in Anger. Why are You practicing Abominations and Conforming their wicked Desires? until Today why? The OT did not allow it. and NT the Apostle warns who pratice that. air, water, earth ........ what is next ? mormons.
@AngelofLoveOne Huh? The official Mormon stance is that marriage is between man and woman, that homosexuality is a complex issue, that Gays should be loved and not shunned just because of their situaion in life. Jesus, after all, dined with the publicans.
@DefendingMormonism )) the Publicans ???.........are Not !!! Sodom & Gomorah!! You Evil Mormons!! Remember Your Filthy Sins and Conspiracy are Not Exempted in the BOOK OF LAW. You Mormons All Guilty of BLASPHEMY, AND A GREAT MOCKED! you should know and Believe the Galatians. 6:7 You change! Broke! and Destroy the Law of GOD.
Fact: Mormons are hypocrites. To say that they do not hate on homosexuals/homosexuality, and then to take away our rights, to treat us with bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, hatred, conditional love, judgment, non-Christlike-ness, etc...is contradictory. Just by saying the ingorant phrase of "thought to be involved in homosexual or lesbian behavoir" is ingorant, therefore homophobic.
Fact: Ironically, embarassingly, and humorously, there are not ANY secular homophobic arguments. Rarely any
The Family Research Council is solely motivated by religion. Not science. Not fact. Not evidence. Not logic. Not common sense....
When interracial marriage was legalized all 50 states had to change their laws...Sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures...
Marriage is just a word. It's not an instutition. It's not owned by religion. It's a way to show how committed you are to the one you love, saying your their's for life. That is all. Everyone deserves that right.
@mneunbamboon As has been shown in this video, many of the top pro-Gay movement activists were similarly motivated by person belief, NOT by science, fact, or evidence. THAT is how the definition of homosexuality was changed in the DSM -- the first time in HISTORY it had been changed by a VOTE!
It should be stated that I have several gay friends. Showing my respect and love for them and their lifestyle choice does not mean I have to agree with gay marriage.
@DefendingMormonism I shudder to think what your "several gay friends" say about you behind your back, even knowing that you show them respect and love for their lifestyle. Wait a minute. You show respect and love for their lifestyle? Holy shit! I would delete this comment. You do not want the church excommunicating you for showing their lifestyle respect. That is Mormon heterodoxy. You are not permitted to respect their lifestyle, for by extension, you respect what they do in that lifestyle.
@MageSutek The radical homosexual agenda flaunts gross, disgusting sexual perversions openly in gay pride parades on PUBLIC streets. It seeks validation and acceptance, under the guise of opposing bullying, to spread its awful filth among the school children in America's schools. I note how you enjoyed "Angels in America." This depraved, vulgar play was promoted by a homosexual English teacher at Deerfield HS. Nothing inspiring whatsoever -- absolute garbage. Not fit for children at all!
@MageSutek I spare us the gross details of the "Little Black Book" given children in public schools in Massachusetts. Check out Mass Resistance's website and tell me why that is good for children. I'll wait. This agenda opposes pretty much everything that is wholesome. It seeks to destroy the institution of marriage. It shows utter contempt for their own parents' marriage and family values, bringing great shame and dishonor to them. It has everything to do with selfishness, not rights.
@DefendingMormonism Your bigotry is showing DefendingMormonism. When you say you have several gay friends and that you show "respect for them and their lifestyle choice..." is proof that you really don't understand them at all. When you use words like "lifestyle choice" you reveal the fact that you believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice. Well gay people and Mormon people have many different kinds of lifestyles. What's your lifestyle? Marriage equality is just that. Equality for all.
Fact: Any psychologist who participates in anti-gay, homophobic reparitive/conversion therapies, is breaking the Code of Ethics set up by the APA and will lose their liscense.
Fact: You fail to use those-who-are-for-same-sex-marriage's qoutes against them. You actually embarass yourself. Having fancy fonts and nice still-photos, does not make you more credible.
Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his samesex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a...
Fact: (American Psychological Association, whom you referenced a minute ago; lmao, ironically) All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective.
If you can change your sexual orientation I want you to magically, automatically have phsyical, mental, and emotional feelings and stimuluses towards the same sex. Once you have done that, get back to me. Once again, an opinion of someone (Dr. Robert L. Spitzer) is not a fact. Get it? Opinion. Fact. Opinion. Fact. Say it with me now!!!
Sure, it was wrong of people to vandalize your property, but it is much more immoral to be ignorant, intolerant, judgmental, hateful, conditionally loving, un-Christlike, hypocritical, delusional, and bigoted. Much more highly immoral. Fact: One is born with a certain sexuality, whether it's gay, bi, straight, pansexual, or asexual. It is a genetic predisposition. You cannot change your genes.Thousands and thousands of people have tried in a variety of ways to become straight & have failed.
How are the words of Simon LeVay factual? Wouldn't that be classified as an opinion? How could he know exactly what caused the APA to behave as it did?
Fact: The APA's decision to remove homosexuality from its list of disorders was treated with a great level of controversy. It was the first of many, many positive movements in the gay rights movement. Fact: All medical and mental health organizations in America regard homosexuality as natural, healthy, and normal because of medical, scientific research.
Fact: California is a very liberal state. Why would it choose to make gay marriage illegal when a few years earlier, it had legalized it? Because the Mormon Church created, funded, advertised, and legalized Prop 8. Fact: 72% of the monetary contributions to fund Prop 8 came from the Mormon Church. Fact: Actually during the 70s, when the APA removed homosexuality from its list of disorders, gay rights advocacy and activism was verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy, verrrrrrrrryyyyy, rare. Unheard of tbh
Fact: In 1996, Dr. Dean Hamer and his research group found a SEXUALITY gene. Using a high-scientific vocabulary, he stated that this gene probably also causes straight men to be straight, as well as cuasing gay people to be gay. Fact: Studies about pheremones show that men and women who identify as gay have different pheromonal responses (when having their brains scanned) than straight men and women.
These people are not fighting because they are evil, abominable, confused, blasphemous, troubled, satanic sinners against your God, they are fighting because the facts are that being gay is normal, natural, and healthy, so denying gay people rights is constitutional and theocratic.
It's funny that you use the American Psychological Association as a source when they have a very liberal view of homosexuality. You were viewing their brochure "Answers to Your Questions on Homosexuality" and misquoted them by taking what they said out of context. There are 15 pages of that brochure that argue with your basic views on homosexuality. So, shame on you!
Actually the whole state of California voted to repeal Proposition 22, Gavin Newsom just acknowledged this. Sure, science cannot be sure as to what causes homosexuality, because they are still researching...but usually scientists strongly believe that homosexuality is a natural, normal, and healthy. There are studies about birth order and a gay gene that are in favor of those facts.
Wow, I feel bad for you delusional bigots. Making up lies as means of rationalizations spurred on by denial...when the facts against your ideas are overwhelmingly numerous.
Its Ironic how you rely on the discoveries of science to back up your claims yet believe the earth was created in a way that is scientiffically unfathomable...
the anti-gay (lds) stance is... "protect traditional marriage"... "the family unit is under attack"...
so, if 2 men or 2 women get married, how exactly does it affect my heterosexual marriage? how does it affect any other marriage?
which tradition are they referring to? if mormon tradition, then why not try and reinstate polygamy? because it's wrong right? in that case why not fight against it with the same fervor? what about the woman who married a roller coaster? man who married his car?
Wow, so Mormons are just as bad as Baptists. Also way to go making everyone who doesn't agree with you an 'extremist" (far left, extreme left, etc). Are you sure you guys don't work for Fox "news" ?
This is a good video, thanks for it. I really love the quote from Elder Faust about no completely private choices, but I tried looking it up and it actually came from a talk he gave in conference in 1987 called "Will I Be Happy?"
@criedmightier Thanks. He must have said/written the quotation multiple times. Apostles will often repeat themselves over the course of decades. It's also one of my favorites!
Regardless of whatever science has not found since it hasnt determined anything one way or the other and I dont think it should be used as a reason to say being gay is not genetic as there are theories related to pre-birth but not actual genes and for all we know maybe some are gay due to genes and some are due to trauma. But I did want to put out for the sake of debate that I know for my own self regardless that it was not a choice in any way and that should be considered.
I find there to be much objectionable in Mormonism but fully support the stance that they take against homosexual marriage. 2 men together and 2 woman together is not only against God's will but against one of the basic purposes of sexual union - the reporoduction of the human race.
@DefendingMormonism - I hope you know that you are promoting suicide among mormon homosexual youth. I would know, I was one, and I tried to kill myself many times until I awoke to the realization that I had been force fed lies my entire life. Sure tell them they can overcome it, they will try and they will try so hard it kills them.
@windigo77 To accuse me of such is shameful. Mormons are taught to love all people and loving does not mean accepting something we disagree with!
Did you know that homosexuals are more prone than heterosexuals to depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts even in EXTREMELY gay-friendly and gay-affirming societies like the Netherlands?
As it states in the video, science shows that people are born with "predispositions, not predeterminations."
@DefendingMormonism There are some Gays that are so gay that they will never change, even you must admit that. I am bisexual, and I admit that if I was required to sleep with only women, I'd be okay with that. It doesn't mean I could do it easily, and I would have to revert to a lower level of happiness for the rest of my life, but oh well. To those that are gay and can't physically and emotionally be who you want them to be. Your signing their death certificates when you back them into a corner
@DefendingMormonism If you really believe that mormonism accepts homosexuals, then you're not REALLY a mormon. You're a pathetic apologist masquerading around for the real thing. The real thing is hideous.
@DefendingMormonism "As it states in the video, science shows that people are born with "predispositions, not predeterminations."" Actually it's the other way around. People are born with predeterminations, and society is what makes them predispositions. Get it right or don't say it at all.
@DefendingMormonism "Did you know that homosexuals are more prone than heterosexuals to depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts even in EXTREMELY gay-friendly and gay-affirming societies like the Netherlands?" Maybe that's because the entire world is against them. Your pathetic belief system that also believes in magical underwear is not doing their psychi ANY favors. It is damaging to the human to be told and have it heard all around that their existence is that of filth.
@XforeverlongingX You're a chick who likes chicks - as in "like-like." Big deal. You are obnoxious and hateful despite being gay, not because of it. If anyone has every thought you were filth, it would have to be based on your sparkling personality; you know, the way you seek out religious videos or anything remotely critical LBGTQ and act like a complete ass. You want tolerance to LBGTQ issues and yet you are intolerant of anyone not sharing your own personal views. It is you who are pathetic.
@XforeverlongingX To use your own words, "Nice try." You are a chick who likes chicks and you are not heterosexual. Perhaps that is more accurate. Again, big deal. I don't care what your leanings are and neither do most people, save maybe those who you attack. And as for evidence proving the existence of Jesus Christ, try this out (with plenty of sources listed): watch?v=mf5oSXIzAjc Again, to use one of your favorite phrases, and in the proper context, "you're ignorant."
@XforeverlongingX Your comments on other videos directly contradict what you are claiming now. But put that aside as it doesn't matter other than to establish you are a liar when it suits you. Other than that, I will let your argument stand without my longwinded rebuttal because, in this rare instance, you have appeared to address the actual content of the video in question rather than engage in (as you have in the past) ad hominem attacks, strawman reasoning, obfuscation and misdirection.
@CJC1295DAC Well what can I say? I am flattered that you did research on me for the last 4 days, but in spite of all of that, I still turn out to be right though don't I. :)
@CJC1295DAC Okay. Let's go through the arguments on "watch?v=mf5oSXIzAjc" one by one. Number 1. He argues that since the canonical gospels feature REAL places then that means Jesus was a REAL person. NO. That's a non-sequitur. What would the gospels say? in the land of gumdrops and rainbows there lived a man named jesus? ofcourse not. How ridiculous to suggest such an idea. Number 2. JOSEPHUS didn't know jesus christ :) I've read his account. It reads like a fairy tale.
@CJC1295DAC Tacitus not evidence, he also doesn't spell christ's name correctly. As a historian that may be something you'd want to document correctly. THAT aside, there is no indication that he met jesus or "christus" and NO evidence that Tacitus provides proves he walked the planet
@CJC1295DAC The gospels? not even close to evidence. Written 20-30 years post the supposed jesus of nazareth. They contradict each other to the point of written suicide.
@DefendingMormonism "As it states in the video, science shows that people are born with "predispositions, not predeterminations."" Lets say that we accept that premise, what difference does it make? what difference does it make on loving one of the same sex? what difference does it make choosing who you sleep with? how does it become YOUR business?
@DefendingMormonism You MISQUOTED collins. He himself is very pissed off as the head of the genome project that people like you took his quote and mixed it all up. "The evidence we have at present strongly supports the proposition that there ARE hereditary factors in male homosexuality." & "No one has yet identified an actual gene that contributes to the hereditary component... but it is likely that such genes will be found in the next few years." THAT is his original.
@stinkychickentitty Oh look everyone, the atheist is using cynicism to demean and belittle a devoted Christian. God does not validate through scientific proof, my friend, Never has, never will. However, the world around us can provide compelling evidence that God does exist. On the other hand, there is no "scientific proof" that can validate that God DOES NOT exist. Thus, atheists are left to revel in cynicism until the day they meet God face to face.
@windigo77 Did you know Mormons have the some of the highest rates of antidepressant use and suicide in the country? Glass House Much? People oppressed are miserable. Mormons are oppressed, Gays are oppressed, and Atheists are oppressed. It happens.
@JonathonWilder Statistics say otherwise. My father was an EMT for many many... many years in my small mormon community. He, along with statistics showing higher levels of depression in Utah, said that 1 in 3 ambulance calls he went on was an attempted suicide. There, you have statistical evidence, and anecdotal. Utahan's do have a higher rate of antidepressant use, and depression. Fact.
So mormons believe they have the truth about what being gay is all about or claim they know what God thinks. Well...the mormons believe in a book written by a man in where we can read that Jesus traveled to America...sorry but it's just the most ridiculous thing. Live your lives and believe what you believe but leave others out of it and stop your gay bashing campaigns.
I find Mormonism to be disgusting and amoral, you were not born that way, you can change. Mormonism is a choice, a ridiculous one, but yours to make. Thankfully this is a free country. I know you do not believe in karma, but you will pay for all the harm you cause in the name of your god, especially to the children brainwashed from birth in your homes. I do not wish you any harm, I just wish to be where you are not.
@ac7933 Your aggressive language reminds me of the "love" and "compassion" exerted by members of the gay movement towards Mormons in the wake of Prop 8, e.g. firing LDS employees, spray paint Mormon churches, etc.
@DefendingMormonism Turning the other cheek is a value I do not share with you, you cannot fathom the depth of my contempt . Do not forget boycotting your businesses, I do not want my money supporting your lifestyle.
@DefendingMormonism I have a question concerning Mormon doctrine. Does mormon doctrine embrace the idea of total depravity and original sin? Or do does it embrace the idea of people being inherently good?
@Dudethatlikes I personally believe people are inherently good, but until Jesus atoned for our sins we did suffer from the original transgression commited by Adam and Eve. Yet even today, though we are inherently good Satan still tempts use and tries to turn us away. Which is why there is so much evil in this world. I am Mormon
@JonathonWilder You personal view is very interesting, but is there any official Mormon doctrine referring to the matter? Or is that just generally something that is left up to the average member?
@XforeverlongingX I'm going to use one of your favorites here: "You're ignorant." The word "ignorant" refers to a person being unaware or uneducated of certain facts, such as (in this case), the FACT that Jesus Christ was a real individual. There is plenty of non-biblical historical evidence that supports this. You, madam troll, use the word "ignorant" to describe someone who does not share your personal views. See? Now you're getting an English lesson as well as a history lesson. Are you fed?
@CJC1295DAC No. "There is plenty of non-biblical historical evidence that supports this." The supposed accounts that are non-biblical are even less descriptive than the contradicting gospels that it plagiarizes from. There is NO evidence for the existence of jesus christ. Nice try, but you've failed.
@CJC1295DAC Ignorance is used because it applies. It applies because you claim Jesus was a real person. I am telling you, sir, that there is no evidence to prove that he was.
@DefendingMormonism "firing LDS employees, spray paint Mormon churches, etc." What is worse? putting paint on a building ? or the members in that building saying you cannot be marrid, you cannot be at the bedside of your dying lover, you cannot have hundreds of rights that married couples do, you cannot share healthcare, you are second class citizens. Now, I ask again, which party is the gigantically worse offender?
I appreciate that you took the time to add sources to your video. I do not agree with many of the points made.
1. The vast majority of people say they experience little or no choice in who they are attracted to. It makes no difference whether it's genetic, epigenetic, hormones in the womb, or early environmental factors - it's very very difficult to change your sexual orientation. And most people live a happier life by accepting their orientation rather than fighting against it.
2. There is a reason why the NARTH quote says "SOME people can and do change". They don't tell you that some is an incredibly low percentage of the people who try. And there is a high percentage of people who try that are psychologically damaged. The founders of Exodus International are now openly gay and apologize for all the harm they have caused. SOME people may change, but the vast majority will not.
@pkiverson 3. Why do different groups opposing gay rights advertise themselves as "promoting the family unit"? It's totally offensive. Gay people have families too, and you're not promoting their families. In fact you're doing your best to make it as difficult for their families as possible, so perhaps you should advertise yourself more accurately as "promoting the family unit (unless it's a gay family)".
@pkiverson 4. Equal rights are not a religious issue. Mormons believe that being of certain other religions is sinful, yet have no problem supporting the 1st amendment. Mormons believe divorce (apart from adultery) is sinful, yet would you actually want to outlaw divorce? Mormons believe marriage is ordained by the Judeo-Christian God, yet would you outlaw atheist marriages?
The science right now supports the notion that homosexuality is a combination of genetic makeup and environment. The term environment has more to do with physical environment than social interactions in the biological sense. Regardless, it does not leave the person who is homosexual with a choice as to being homosexual. The idea that it is a disease to be cured is ignorant and offensive; as there are ZERO harmful effects to the individual or society. Educate yourselves!
@InvisibleGodBlessYou Where is the error? I'm fairly certain the book of Exodus has nothing to do with science, reason, or common sense for that matter. Leave your religion in your religion. In THIS COUNTRY, we do not have to be subject to laws derived exclusively from archaic non-sensical biblical rants from the Bronze Age!
@elprincepe And yet the science supports it. It's a good thing that reality doesn't require your agreeing with it.
Regardless, homosexuals aren't going away. They deserve the same rights that you have and the same opportunities of a legal social contract with the people they love and decide to spend their lives with.
@adamsinclair007 I must disagree my good sir. Homosexuality is just as deviant and harmful to society as heterosexuality. Other than that, good points all in all.
@racevws Rather than read what I wrote and actually contribute to the conversation, you simply make up an argument and attack it. Allowing homosexuals to marry and acknowledging their committed relationships has ZERO harmful effects to the individual or society. When you speak of "high risk behaviors", then heterosexuals that take part in "high risk behaviors" (ie multiple partners, unsafe sex, etc.) have no advantage over homosexuals. But hey, let's deny a group rights based on your ignorance.
@WeAreTheRobots - you and robot guy are a dime a dozen on here. You hold as much clout as Slater and Waldorf on the Muppet show with your heckling. It's boring, run of the mill "Anti-Mormon" sentiment and not even very original. Make sure you hit your personal libraries and dig up some more bastardized Journal of Discourses quotes or other LDS church history commentary because that's all you've got in life. Keep spray painting your tags on videos because all it does is alerts us all who you are.
@THELDSLIFE Again...the logic? Where is your reasoning? Remember, Mormons are the ones prodding at gays, not the other way around. I do not know any gay groups out there trying to create laws that bans mormonism. Stop being so defensive of your own religion and start defending why you believe gays should change their sexual orientation. That is the topic of this pointless video that we are supposed to be chatting about.
@WeAreTheRobots - the church is made up of people but the people do not make up the church. Paul often spoke to those in other cities and would constantly marvel on HOW quickly they would stray from the Gospel. We live in an imperfect world.... salvation is not given to the righteous. What men had thought in ancient days could parallel the attitudes and thoughts of men during the early days of the church. Take the story of the man who was born blind. The Apostles were LESS than perfect then too.
Bad excuse. Anyway, when I say "the church" in this context, I mean all of those involved by direct action (funding the pro-prop8 campaign), supporting this action ideologically and/or just passively contemplating it without speaking out.
Now, did you support proposition 8? Are you in favor of banning gay marriage?
If yes, how do you reconcile that with the non-hating you say you profess?
Nobody is forcing you to be gay or marry someone of your same gender.
either way, whether it is nature/nurture or science, once you go gay you can never go back, so the moral of the story is you cannot choose to go gay or straight. i know so many gay people who beg, pray hope and cry to become straight and there are people out there who carry on believeing on day they will be straight by living a miserable life and marrying a woman/man they don't find attractive but still wait to turn straight. it just doesnt happen and gays dont choose to be gay. end of story.
BenBezpark 5 days ago
By the way Dean Byrd is NOT a great guy to quote on scientific facts. His statement that researchers who have attempted find a biological cause for homosexuality have "admitted that they failed" is a blatant LIE. Dean Byrd is a creep of the highest order. He's a very sleazy man who is now President of NARTH and once led Evergreen International another "Ex-Gay" oriented group. He is a long way away from mainstream psychology. The man is a crackpot.
ZenLDS 2 weeks ago
Fact there is no consensus among many (not all) scientists as to what causes orientation including heterosexuality. There is, however, mounting evidence proving that homosexuality is both biologically as well as environmentally based. It is the interaction between biology and environment that tends to influence the formation of sexual orientation. Biology sets the stage for it. I am a man who is both LDS & Gay. I am also legally married to my LDS husband. I never chose my orientation.
ZenLDS 2 weeks ago
@DefendingMormonism You claim you have several gay friends, but really... You characterize their orientation as a fleeting aspect of mortality, a mental illness that shouldn't have been reclassified by the APA. No friend would tell you that the love you feel for your significant other stems from a deficient mental condition. Also quoting bigots like Dr. Byrd is not friendly to gay people. Sadly, you're on the wrong side of history and, even more sadly, you're the last to realize.
Balehipocanter 2 weeks ago
Oh, yes, the Family Research Council, one of whose founders, George Alan Rekers, caused quite a little brouhaha a while back when he hired a male prostitute to go on vacation with him to handle his package, err, I mean luggage, whilst he was on holiday.
RCSVirginia 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from DefendingMormonism
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One thing that really seems to scare Mormons is when you mention the movie "Latter Days" in connection with Mormon missionaries or when you mention "8: The Mormon Proposition" at all. Those movies seem to frighten them. Maybe, they are worried that people will watch them, use their brains and really start to think.
RCSVirginia 3 weeks ago in playlist More videos from DefendingMormonism
"The church calls on those involved in the debate over same sex marriage to act in the spirit of mutual respect and civility towards each other. No one on either side of the question should be vilified, intimidated, harassed, or subject to erroneous information." ... THAT'S my Church
fubecafy 1 month ago in playlist Mormonism
Great video
MrAppleFingers 2 months ago
Objective? No. All of this was pro prop8 material/quotes not actual facts.
filipehutchens 2 months ago
James E . Faust quote is just amazing. He was inspired by God when he said it. "Our society is the sum total of what millions of individuals do in their private lives. That sum total of private behavior has worldwide public consequences of enormous magnitude. There are no completely private choices (Faust, James E. Sep 1995 Ensign pa ges 2 - 7)
harolddoza 3 months ago
This kind of "agitprop" is really so sad. One thing the Mormons are good at is deflecting the grim light of reality from their leaders back onto whomever they have targeted as a malignancy within the body of America. If it is not the black community, it is the democratic base. If not politics, they target gays. What the Mormon Church does not realize is that its fundamentally erroneous religious stances are always forged in a foundry of parishioners' money. The Mormon Church all but entirely...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...funded the court battle against the upholding of the ruling on Proposition 8 in California. The LDS church loves to decry political affiliation unless/until politics becomes a germane and "savvy" interest to forwarding the mission statement of the church. This was so when the church outlawed polygamy, by force of the federal government. It was so when it was no longer PC to keep blacks from holding the priesthood, so a change was made. Mormons are not anything if not conformists to the...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...laws of the land, so I suppose they can be credited for being law abiding. Nevertheless, as their flock tithes ten percent of their wages each month to the Church, the flock should know where that money is being spent. In the past three years, that money has been spent lobbying Congress in an effort to sway the "popular" vote amongst conservative puppets within the fold. It pays to be a Congressman who has good ties to the Church, of that there can be no doubt. I wonder, when everything...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...is said and done, and the Supreme Court rules that gays are entitled to the same rights that their heterosexual counterparts enjoy, if the Mormons will adhere to the High Court's ruling, as it has done so earnestly in the past, or if the obligatory hatred and malice towards what is nothing short of a recognized minority will continue. It will be interesting to see how that pans out. It is just a matter of time before this is elevated to the Supreme Court. Lobbying tends to fail at that point.
MageSutek 6 months ago
This video completely skips over the fact that a Mormon prophet said that people are "better off dead than gay" which prompted a suicide epidemic on BYU's campus and across the country.
RockaMaster77 7 months ago
@DefendingMormonism Shut up, no one cares what you think. kbai
mneunbamboon 7 months ago
Okay, so marriage is out...how about civil unions, with all the benefits of regular marriage for LGBT people? What's your take on that, since the church doesn't have one?
Bananianiown 7 months ago
continued from 2006 statement by the APA:
"There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Our further concern is that the positions espoused by NARTH and Focus on the Family create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish."
chuskaday 7 months ago 3
In 2006 the APA, who you quote in the video, released a statement saying: "For over three decades the consensus of the mental health community has been that homosexuality is not an illness and therefore not in need of a cure. The APA’s concern about the positions espoused by NARTH and so-called conversation therapy is that they are not supported by the science."
chuskaday 7 months ago
This video did not make me smile. Why is it fitting to use the music of Jonsi and Alex? Any gay couple would be horrified to hear their music used as the soundtrack for this video.
chuskaday 8 months ago
I find it fitting that you used a popular Icelandic gay couple's music for this video. It made me smile.
I find the whole debate about same sex marriage rather silly. I feel if it were to be legalized nation wide, there should also be laws protecting churches for refusing to hold ceremonies for gay couples. Every church's rights are just as important as individual rights.
If there were no legal benefits to marriage over civil unions, I'd say stop gay marriage, but that isn't the case.
ToxicPopsicle 8 months ago
@DrTerminus own to do that, that's fine. But don't start bitching at people who don't follow what in your opinion is bad. It's between a person and god who that person loves, and you should keep your nose out of it. Mormons have always been homophobic and proud of it, I don't need your blatant lies about how you're not, and then to be insulted for defending a group of human beings.
Jet7445 8 months ago
I have carefully written down the quotes included in this video. They reveal much about the homosexual agenda. One very revealing notation is the casting of votes by the APA to remove homosexuality as a diagnostic category making it the first time in health care that a diagnosis was made by popular vote rather than by scientific evidence!
DrTerminus 9 months ago
I do believe the Mormon stance on marriage is that it's between a man, a woman, a woman, and a woman. I'm obviously joking... I live in a heavily mormon area (I have since I was 4 and I'm now 16) and I'm still atheist as ever. I've never even considered joining up with you cultists. You'd think that if it really were the true religion and it's so obviously so that I'd have realized that by now without the customary brainwashing each of the 12 children from a mormon family undergo.
Jet7445 9 months ago
@Jet7445 It appears that you have mastered the art of knowing the contents of many volumes of books by merely driving by a library. Living in an area where there are lots of Mormons does not automatically grant you special knowledge about them. I invite you to set aside your prejudice and go learn about their beliefs. You'll be pleasantly surprised.
DrTerminus 9 months ago
@DrTerminus And it appears that you have mastered either the art of blind stupidity, or assumption. I have almost exclusively mormon friends so obviously I'm not prejudice by any definition of the word, I have actually attended church (including sunday school and everything a normal 10 year old mormon would go through) with my mormon friend out of curiosity. My pleasant surprise was, as I said, brainwashing and propaganda. Now stop assuming, it only hurts your cause.
Jet7445 9 months ago
@Jet7445 Well, that's a tremendous breakthrough. You actually stepped inside the library and now you automatically know what's inside all the thousands of volumes lining the shelves, eh? Attending a meeting or two out of curiosity does not make you an authority on any church nor any subject. It is very curious indeed why you wouldn't want to dig in and learn all you could learn so that your utterings would be supported with some facts, not knee-jerk impressions.
DrTerminus 9 months ago
@DrTerminus While I never said I knew everything (I don't even think I implied it) I found it much too stuffy in the library and I decided to go out and write my own books, and learn from personal experience, not the "revelations" of man who lived 200 years ago. Jesus died on the cross for saying that I have a personal relationship with god, if there even is a god, so I figure I don't need apostles, bishops, or even presidents to intervene with that relationship. If you're too afraid of the unkn
Jet7445 8 months ago
@DrTerminus An ironic remark made on a video that is filled with subjective snippets of quasi-scientific musings. You talk of supported facts? The Mormon Church is an organization long bereft of legitimacy within the Christian "machine" that fuels America's religious malice against those who are "different." The LDS Church carries no more weight within the Christian community than do practitioners of Voodoo, yet it purports to be a paramount authority on the teachings of Christ? Facts indeed.
MageSutek 6 months ago
@Jet7445 After nearly 13 years of theological and ontological study, I am always reluctant to invoke the word "cult" in a discussion. However, I cannot help but invest in the premise that this church, much like the Church of Scientology, is nothing short of cult, and sadly, the variety of cult that is imbued with the most negative connotation of the word. It saddens me that you have chosen atheism at 16, but you are young. Maybe you will change your mind. Either way, we agree on this issue.
MageSutek 6 months ago
@MageSutek The obnoxiousness of the radical homosexual agenda is at odds with most of what constitutes a thriving, productive society. It is an extremely immoral, diseased lifestyle which vehemently opposes the moral standards which keeps civilization alive. It rejects EX-gays, flying in the face of thousands of examples that this destructive behavior can be changed. It pleads for "tolerance" but this is only a one-way tolerance. (I cite the treatment Dan Savage gave Rick Santorum.)
DrTerminus 6 months ago
@DrTerminus This is a highly subjective stance and one that cannot be bolstered by facts, because there are none to be had. Constructed facts handed out by groups founded for the sole purpose of finding evil within a minority group are not facts considered legitimate outside the aforementioned groups looking for evil in all the politically convenient places. Frankly, I do not find the homosexual agenda any more radical than the Mormon agenda, which is quite blatantly obvious to most people...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...who are capable of thinking outside their own little box, which is not the overwhelming majority of Americans, but enough to keep the LDS in check so they do not destroy every aspect of life that does not conform to the parochial and puritanical thinking that went out with Nathaniel Hawthorne's Hester Prynne. The problem with "agendas" is that everyone has one, so they coincide with people on the polar opposite of the spectrum. I am quite familiar with the gay community in my city, and it...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...does not at all seem to be at odds with what constitutes a thriving and productive society. The gays that I know are educated, have good jobs, have loving families, attended expensive universities, are decorated within their respective professions, have kids, are spiritual, live ethical lives, abide by the laws of the land, do not murder or steal, drive decent cars, have nice homes, are well-spoken, have manners, and are quite friendly. If I had one criticism of the gays I know, it would...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...be their predilection for showing their heterosexual counterparts the respect that is denied them by those counterparts. It seems silly to keep coming back to people who kicked you in the teeth with the hope that they have changed their ways, but the homos I know have faith that their counterparts will someday shed their skins of ignorance and selfishness for the sake of being better human beings who have a desire to live in harmony with their neighbors. As far morality is concerned, I...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...do not think any Mormon is in a position to be spouting platitudes about what constitutes morality and what does not. Good old Warren Jeffs (a Mormon) is now going to die in prison because he liked porking underage girls whilst hiding behind the tenets of the Bible. Raping 13-year-olds is somewhat immoral in my view, and unbelievably, the US courts agree with me. "But the LDS church denounced Jeffs," you say. You can offer that up as a defense now, but where was your outrage when he...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...was setting up communes in three states and raping girls prior to his indictment? The LDS had nothing to say about Jeffs and his rape parlors until he was caught. Then suddenly he is an enemy of the church. He is suddenly a "fundamentalist" Mormon whose views are heterodoxical to those of "mainstream Mormons." Funny that they knew what he was all about and did nothing until his arrest and subsequent fall from grace turned the light on sectarian Mormonism. That is the old boys club...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...hard at work, isn't it; as long as you extirpate him now, you can wash your hands of any complicity. Sounds a lot like a famous Roman prefect from the Bible. He washed his hands during the course of atrocities as well. Anyway, I am thinking of the gays I know and whether they are diseased. I fear I do not know any diseased gays. Nor do their lifestyles breed disease as far as I can tell. They wash themselves, their clothes, their homes, their pets; it is weird, but I think it would be easy...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...to call out any group of people and say they are living a diseased lifestyle, Mormons included. "I am talking about STDs and AIDS," you say. Well, my response to that is that I happen to know more heterosexuals with AIDS than I do homosexuals. But that is just me. Yes, HIV/AIDS has devastated the gay community worldwide. But it has done the same to hemophiliacs, IV drug users, recipients of donor blood prior to 1987, the entire continent of Africa (heteros), and dumb straight people who...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...do not practice safe sex. Gays get the fallout because the virus first emerged in humans that were gay. Hell, I blame the bloody monkeys who bred the illness in the first place, but to each his own. Does the gay community oppose moral standards? I polled some of my gay friends. They happen to be quite moral people. Granted their morals may not be Mormon morals, but neither are my Catholic Benedictine morals the same as Mormon morals, yet I have lived a decent life in which I have found...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...living morally is a lot better than being an immoral hedonist. Morality is subjective, incidentally, especially if you are thumping your overly over-translated Bible and calling it sacrosanct. Slippery slope. The queers I know do not oppose morality. They oppose mistreatment and unkindness, but one might argue that that opposition is a moral opposition; does that not make them moral people for decrying immoral standings? Seems logical. I asked my gay friends if they buy in to reparative...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...therapy. They don't. But they are biased, so I asked my doctor friends. They do not. I stopped asking people after that because I do not either. Your thousands of examples of success (complete hyperbole) have been shot down by the APA, the AMA, the GMC in the UK, and every credible practitioner genuinely dedicated to the welfare of their patients. Presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann will lose the Republican ticket because of her husband's little clinic designed to "fix" people who really...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...are not broken. But because it is "hip" to purport that you can "counsel the gay away," people latch on even though they do not have any credible evidence that reparative therapy works. I can tell you what it does do: makes people feel like shit about themselves and the world around them. It does do that, so props if that is one of the side dishes that comes with the entree. Christ, even Bachmann's poster boy "counsel the gay away" turned on her and went back to penis after being "cured."
MageSutek 6 months ago
That must have been a blow to the movement. Tolerance is an important thing and I think the gay community seeks tolerance as much as it is willing to show tolerance. But like all things, it's a give and take. When you have been the whipping boy for as long as the homos have, tolerance is hard to put forth. Ask blacks, women, Indians, Mexicans, Muslims, Canadians, lexicographers; they all sought tolerance. Some got it in one form or another, most did not. Personally, I aim for acceptance. Fuck...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...tolerance. Tolerance is for cowards who are too scared to go up to someone and tell them how they really feel, so instead, they prop themselves up by saying, "I have gay friends, I have black friends, I have Muslim friends. I know what it is like and prejudice would never come between me and my friends." What a load of horseshit. The minute your "friends" do something that threatens your worldview is the minute you stop being tolerant. There is no such thing as tolerance. There is hatred...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...and there is acceptance. The middle ground is tolerance and no one likes to be in the middle of anything. They like to be accepted for who and what they are, irrespective of who they sleep with, what color their skin is, what god they kneel to, what books they read, with whom they choose to commune, and most especially who they choose to love. Love is the only thing that keeps this planet spinning and it is the only thing that will save it from its eventual sociogenic implosion. As far as...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...Savage and Santorum are concerned, I fear you citing them as a means to deride the gay community or to bolster your stance that to be gay is to invite perdition into your life is going to blow up in your face. Rick Santorum is one of the most disgusting cowards who has ever dared prop himself up for a run at the presidency, and I am ashamed that he holds a seat in government. When he denounced homosexuality by comparing it to bestiality, then said that he does not mean to pick on gay...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...people, he lost all credibility within the Republican Party and further sullied the institution of government and social competency for which the US is made fun of by every nation outside its borders on a daily basis. He is the lowest of the low, really, and for you to invoke his name simply reinforces my impression of you as a narcissistic fool who would sooner sell your firstborn for a chance to rid the world of all who YOU feel drag it down. Savage gave Santorum a dose of his own hate...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...and Santorum did not like the taste. As far as Savage is concerned, he is a hero, but not because he landed in a feud with Santorum, but because he began what is now the hugely successful viral campaign "It Gets Better." His actions kept confused teens from throwing themselves off bridges and blowing their brains out. He has saved lives through the network of support that stemmed from the campaign. What has Santorum done for anyone or anything anywhere? Not a fucking thing, unless you...
MageSutek 6 months ago
...equate hate mongering of gays and blacks as moving the country in the right direction. Dan Savage deserves the accolades he has gotten and I endorse the "It Gets Better" campaign with all my heart, as do countless millions of Americans, gay and straight. No one wants a young people in our country to die. Savage is a contributor. Santorum is a hate-filled boob whose days are numbered, in many ways. Next time you want to cite a case to bolster your cause, pick one that has some merit.
MageSutek 6 months ago
@MageSutek In discussing the issue at hand, your pages and pages of tirades are not impressive whatsoever. Unloading every little gripe and complaint is so very tiresome to read. It is good to get a drink of water from a drinking fountain, not a fire hydrant.
If you'd just like to settle down and take it one thing at a time, we can have a discussion.
DrTerminus 6 months ago
@DrTerminus My comments were not really a tirade; one can only say so much in 500 characters and I wanted to make sure I addressed each one of your points. Besides, my intent was not to impress, at least not in the connotation you have presented the word. I sought to impress upon you an alternative and popular worldview that does not coincide with Mormonism. But should you find responses tiresome in the future, do not read them. As far as a discussion, I have no desire to treat with you, for...
MageSutek 6 months ago
@MageSutek
Well done! You addressed every hateful point made by homophobic hatemongers herein, and you demolished them with facts and logic, one by one. I hope that I will see more of your comments in the future on other similar videos.
RCSVirginia 3 weeks ago
...doing so would accomplish nothing. You'll maintain rigid and unwavering stances that are nothing short of dictatorial hate mongering, and I will seek to break down your wall of intolerance. That will result in attacks and false claims, I really will need to "settle down," and the world will continue spinning on its axis with your bigotry fully intact. I did "take one thing at a time." I answered each of your claims. Also, do not presume to condescend; you lack the footing and the integrity.
MageSutek 6 months ago
I'm a Mormon and I like your videos. I'm not an active guy, but I take pride in my beliefs.
expertstrategy 10 months ago 5
@expertstrategy Appreciate it.
DefendingMormonism 8 months ago
@DefendingMormonism we as LDS men and women appreciate you.
MAHEZENVAKEZUNIT46 4 months ago in playlist More videos from DefendingMormonism
@DefendingMormonism this video sucks. it doesnt matter what a RELIGION thinks about an issue like gay marriage, those not involved in their religion dont want their beliefs imposed on them and the mormons, as well as other religions, have no right to impose their beliefs on others. people should be allowed to do WHATEVER makes them happy, and if being gay makes them happy then they have EVERY fuckin right in the world to be that way and get married!
potolover1 10 months ago
@potolover1 So..."people should be allowed to do WHATEVER makes them happy..." eh? That's such an easy, carefree statement to make and one hears it a lot but does anyone ever ponder of the consequences of such ignorance? One reason the world is in such upheaval is because of "moral relativity." And you just gave the definition. The problem is, what/whose standard are we going to use to determine where one's happiness threatens another person's happiness?
Answer? God's Commandments.
DrTerminus 9 months ago
Comment removed
potolover1 10 months ago
I threw up at the first 10 seconds of this video! Yuck! Mormons don't hate homosexuals. Mormons just don't like thier anti-God behavior.
Siriusvisiting1 10 months ago
this is supposed to be "an objective take?" nice try. Better luck next time.
limesalza 10 months ago
@limesalza So would a "real" objective take NOT reference and quote some of the top PRO-GAY MOVEMENT activists of our time, as this video does?
DefendingMormonism 10 months ago
@DefendingMormonism
you're such an idiot.
stinkychickentitty 10 months ago
The Royal College of Psychiatrists states:
"Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person's sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. It is therefore not a choice."
tamasandy 11 months ago
why mormons, Why? Have You Tempting the Lord thy GOD in Anger. Why are You practicing Abominations and Conforming their wicked Desires? until Today why? The OT did not allow it. and NT the Apostle warns who pratice that. air, water, earth ........ what is next ? mormons.
AngelofLoveOne 11 months ago
@AngelofLoveOne Huh? The official Mormon stance is that marriage is between man and woman, that homosexuality is a complex issue, that Gays should be loved and not shunned just because of their situaion in life. Jesus, after all, dined with the publicans.
DefendingMormonism 10 months ago 2
@DefendingMormonism )) the Publicans ???.........are Not !!! Sodom & Gomorah!! You Evil Mormons!! Remember Your Filthy Sins and Conspiracy are Not Exempted in the BOOK OF LAW. You Mormons All Guilty of BLASPHEMY, AND A GREAT MOCKED! you should know and Believe the Galatians. 6:7 You change! Broke! and Destroy the Law of GOD.
AngelofLoveOne 10 months ago
Fact: Mormons are hypocrites. To say that they do not hate on homosexuals/homosexuality, and then to take away our rights, to treat us with bigotry, intolerance, ignorance, hatred, conditional love, judgment, non-Christlike-ness, etc...is contradictory. Just by saying the ingorant phrase of "thought to be involved in homosexual or lesbian behavoir" is ingorant, therefore homophobic.
Fact: Ironically, embarassingly, and humorously, there are not ANY secular homophobic arguments. Rarely any
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
The Family Research Council is solely motivated by religion. Not science. Not fact. Not evidence. Not logic. Not common sense....
When interracial marriage was legalized all 50 states had to change their laws...Sometimes drastic times call for drastic measures...
Marriage is just a word. It's not an instutition. It's not owned by religion. It's a way to show how committed you are to the one you love, saying your their's for life. That is all. Everyone deserves that right.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago 2
@mneunbamboon As has been shown in this video, many of the top pro-Gay movement activists were similarly motivated by person belief, NOT by science, fact, or evidence. THAT is how the definition of homosexuality was changed in the DSM -- the first time in HISTORY it had been changed by a VOTE!
It should be stated that I have several gay friends. Showing my respect and love for them and their lifestyle choice does not mean I have to agree with gay marriage.
DefendingMormonism 10 months ago
@DefendingMormonism I shudder to think what your "several gay friends" say about you behind your back, even knowing that you show them respect and love for their lifestyle. Wait a minute. You show respect and love for their lifestyle? Holy shit! I would delete this comment. You do not want the church excommunicating you for showing their lifestyle respect. That is Mormon heterodoxy. You are not permitted to respect their lifestyle, for by extension, you respect what they do in that lifestyle.
MageSutek 6 months ago
@MageSutek The radical homosexual agenda flaunts gross, disgusting sexual perversions openly in gay pride parades on PUBLIC streets. It seeks validation and acceptance, under the guise of opposing bullying, to spread its awful filth among the school children in America's schools. I note how you enjoyed "Angels in America." This depraved, vulgar play was promoted by a homosexual English teacher at Deerfield HS. Nothing inspiring whatsoever -- absolute garbage. Not fit for children at all!
DrTerminus 6 months ago
@MageSutek I spare us the gross details of the "Little Black Book" given children in public schools in Massachusetts. Check out Mass Resistance's website and tell me why that is good for children. I'll wait. This agenda opposes pretty much everything that is wholesome. It seeks to destroy the institution of marriage. It shows utter contempt for their own parents' marriage and family values, bringing great shame and dishonor to them. It has everything to do with selfishness, not rights.
DrTerminus 6 months ago
@DefendingMormonism Your bigotry is showing DefendingMormonism. When you say you have several gay friends and that you show "respect for them and their lifestyle choice..." is proof that you really don't understand them at all. When you use words like "lifestyle choice" you reveal the fact that you believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice. Well gay people and Mormon people have many different kinds of lifestyles. What's your lifestyle? Marriage equality is just that. Equality for all.
ZenLDS 2 weeks ago
Fact: APA continnued:
...a happy and satisfying life.
Fact: Any psychologist who participates in anti-gay, homophobic reparitive/conversion therapies, is breaking the Code of Ethics set up by the APA and will lose their liscense.
Fact: You fail to use those-who-are-for-same-sex-marriage's qoutes against them. You actually embarass yourself. Having fancy fonts and nice still-photos, does not make you more credible.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Fact: APA continnued:
Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his samesex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a...
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Fact: (American Psychological Association, whom you referenced a minute ago; lmao, ironically) All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
If you can change your sexual orientation I want you to magically, automatically have phsyical, mental, and emotional feelings and stimuluses towards the same sex. Once you have done that, get back to me. Once again, an opinion of someone (Dr. Robert L. Spitzer) is not a fact. Get it? Opinion. Fact. Opinion. Fact. Say it with me now!!!
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Sure, it was wrong of people to vandalize your property, but it is much more immoral to be ignorant, intolerant, judgmental, hateful, conditionally loving, un-Christlike, hypocritical, delusional, and bigoted. Much more highly immoral. Fact: One is born with a certain sexuality, whether it's gay, bi, straight, pansexual, or asexual. It is a genetic predisposition. You cannot change your genes.Thousands and thousands of people have tried in a variety of ways to become straight & have failed.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
How are the words of Simon LeVay factual? Wouldn't that be classified as an opinion? How could he know exactly what caused the APA to behave as it did?
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Fact: The APA's decision to remove homosexuality from its list of disorders was treated with a great level of controversy. It was the first of many, many positive movements in the gay rights movement. Fact: All medical and mental health organizations in America regard homosexuality as natural, healthy, and normal because of medical, scientific research.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Fact: California is a very liberal state. Why would it choose to make gay marriage illegal when a few years earlier, it had legalized it? Because the Mormon Church created, funded, advertised, and legalized Prop 8. Fact: 72% of the monetary contributions to fund Prop 8 came from the Mormon Church. Fact: Actually during the 70s, when the APA removed homosexuality from its list of disorders, gay rights advocacy and activism was verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyy, verrrrrrrrryyyyy, rare. Unheard of tbh
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Fact: In 1996, Dr. Dean Hamer and his research group found a SEXUALITY gene. Using a high-scientific vocabulary, he stated that this gene probably also causes straight men to be straight, as well as cuasing gay people to be gay. Fact: Studies about pheremones show that men and women who identify as gay have different pheromonal responses (when having their brains scanned) than straight men and women.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
unconstitutional* vvv
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
These people are not fighting because they are evil, abominable, confused, blasphemous, troubled, satanic sinners against your God, they are fighting because the facts are that being gay is normal, natural, and healthy, so denying gay people rights is constitutional and theocratic.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
It's funny that you use the American Psychological Association as a source when they have a very liberal view of homosexuality. You were viewing their brochure "Answers to Your Questions on Homosexuality" and misquoted them by taking what they said out of context. There are 15 pages of that brochure that argue with your basic views on homosexuality. So, shame on you!
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Actually the whole state of California voted to repeal Proposition 22, Gavin Newsom just acknowledged this. Sure, science cannot be sure as to what causes homosexuality, because they are still researching...but usually scientists strongly believe that homosexuality is a natural, normal, and healthy. There are studies about birth order and a gay gene that are in favor of those facts.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Wow, I feel bad for you delusional bigots. Making up lies as means of rationalizations spurred on by denial...when the facts against your ideas are overwhelmingly numerous.
mneunbamboon 11 months ago
Its Ironic how you rely on the discoveries of science to back up your claims yet believe the earth was created in a way that is scientiffically unfathomable...
Akkly 1 year ago
the anti-gay (lds) stance is... "protect traditional marriage"... "the family unit is under attack"...
so, if 2 men or 2 women get married, how exactly does it affect my heterosexual marriage? how does it affect any other marriage?
which tradition are they referring to? if mormon tradition, then why not try and reinstate polygamy? because it's wrong right? in that case why not fight against it with the same fervor? what about the woman who married a roller coaster? man who married his car?
tamasandy 1 year ago
Wow, so Mormons are just as bad as Baptists. Also way to go making everyone who doesn't agree with you an 'extremist" (far left, extreme left, etc). Are you sure you guys don't work for Fox "news" ?
jordinyc 1 year ago
This is a good video, thanks for it. I really love the quote from Elder Faust about no completely private choices, but I tried looking it up and it actually came from a talk he gave in conference in 1987 called "Will I Be Happy?"
criedmightier 1 year ago
@criedmightier Thanks. He must have said/written the quotation multiple times. Apostles will often repeat themselves over the course of decades. It's also one of my favorites!
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
Regardless of whatever science has not found since it hasnt determined anything one way or the other and I dont think it should be used as a reason to say being gay is not genetic as there are theories related to pre-birth but not actual genes and for all we know maybe some are gay due to genes and some are due to trauma. But I did want to put out for the sake of debate that I know for my own self regardless that it was not a choice in any way and that should be considered.
saurinfaddoul 1 year ago
I find there to be much objectionable in Mormonism but fully support the stance that they take against homosexual marriage. 2 men together and 2 woman together is not only against God's will but against one of the basic purposes of sexual union - the reporoduction of the human race.
TheStenerX 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism - I hope you know that you are promoting suicide among mormon homosexual youth. I would know, I was one, and I tried to kill myself many times until I awoke to the realization that I had been force fed lies my entire life. Sure tell them they can overcome it, they will try and they will try so hard it kills them.
windigo77 1 year ago 3
@windigo77 To accuse me of such is shameful. Mormons are taught to love all people and loving does not mean accepting something we disagree with!
Did you know that homosexuals are more prone than heterosexuals to depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts even in EXTREMELY gay-friendly and gay-affirming societies like the Netherlands?
As it states in the video, science shows that people are born with "predispositions, not predeterminations."
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism Why is YouTube so glitchy tonight. Anyway, predispositions are still predispositions. Your still born with them.
windigo77 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism There are some Gays that are so gay that they will never change, even you must admit that. I am bisexual, and I admit that if I was required to sleep with only women, I'd be okay with that. It doesn't mean I could do it easily, and I would have to revert to a lower level of happiness for the rest of my life, but oh well. To those that are gay and can't physically and emotionally be who you want them to be. Your signing their death certificates when you back them into a corner
windigo77 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism If you really believe that mormonism accepts homosexuals, then you're not REALLY a mormon. You're a pathetic apologist masquerading around for the real thing. The real thing is hideous.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@DefendingMormonism "As it states in the video, science shows that people are born with "predispositions, not predeterminations."" Actually it's the other way around. People are born with predeterminations, and society is what makes them predispositions. Get it right or don't say it at all.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@DefendingMormonism "Did you know that homosexuals are more prone than heterosexuals to depression, anxiety and suicidal thoughts even in EXTREMELY gay-friendly and gay-affirming societies like the Netherlands?" Maybe that's because the entire world is against them. Your pathetic belief system that also believes in magical underwear is not doing their psychi ANY favors. It is damaging to the human to be told and have it heard all around that their existence is that of filth.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@XforeverlongingX You're a chick who likes chicks - as in "like-like." Big deal. You are obnoxious and hateful despite being gay, not because of it. If anyone has every thought you were filth, it would have to be based on your sparkling personality; you know, the way you seek out religious videos or anything remotely critical LBGTQ and act like a complete ass. You want tolerance to LBGTQ issues and yet you are intolerant of anyone not sharing your own personal views. It is you who are pathetic.
CJC1295DAC 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC Except I'm not gay.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@XforeverlongingX To use your own words, "Nice try." You are a chick who likes chicks and you are not heterosexual. Perhaps that is more accurate. Again, big deal. I don't care what your leanings are and neither do most people, save maybe those who you attack. And as for evidence proving the existence of Jesus Christ, try this out (with plenty of sources listed): watch?v=mf5oSXIzAjc Again, to use one of your favorite phrases, and in the proper context, "you're ignorant."
CJC1295DAC 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC I'm not a chick and I'm not gay. I don't know where you're getting this from. I'll check out the video you sent me
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@XforeverlongingX Your comments on other videos directly contradict what you are claiming now. But put that aside as it doesn't matter other than to establish you are a liar when it suits you. Other than that, I will let your argument stand without my longwinded rebuttal because, in this rare instance, you have appeared to address the actual content of the video in question rather than engage in (as you have in the past) ad hominem attacks, strawman reasoning, obfuscation and misdirection.
CJC1295DAC 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC Well what can I say? I am flattered that you did research on me for the last 4 days, but in spite of all of that, I still turn out to be right though don't I. :)
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC Okay. Let's go through the arguments on "watch?v=mf5oSXIzAjc" one by one. Number 1. He argues that since the canonical gospels feature REAL places then that means Jesus was a REAL person. NO. That's a non-sequitur. What would the gospels say? in the land of gumdrops and rainbows there lived a man named jesus? ofcourse not. How ridiculous to suggest such an idea. Number 2. JOSEPHUS didn't know jesus christ :) I've read his account. It reads like a fairy tale.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC Josephus never met jesus christ. Don't forget that little part.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC Tacitus not evidence, he also doesn't spell christ's name correctly. As a historian that may be something you'd want to document correctly. THAT aside, there is no indication that he met jesus or "christus" and NO evidence that Tacitus provides proves he walked the planet
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC The gospels? not even close to evidence. Written 20-30 years post the supposed jesus of nazareth. They contradict each other to the point of written suicide.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@DefendingMormonism "As it states in the video, science shows that people are born with "predispositions, not predeterminations."" Lets say that we accept that premise, what difference does it make? what difference does it make on loving one of the same sex? what difference does it make choosing who you sleep with? how does it become YOUR business?
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DefendingMormonism You MISQUOTED collins. He himself is very pissed off as the head of the genome project that people like you took his quote and mixed it all up. "The evidence we have at present strongly supports the proposition that there ARE hereditary factors in male homosexuality." & "No one has yet identified an actual gene that contributes to the hereditary component... but it is likely that such genes will be found in the next few years." THAT is his original.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@DefendingMormonism oh look everyone the christian is using SCIENCE to back up his argument. lol
how about producing some scientific proof to valadate your religion?
stinkychickentitty 11 months ago
@stinkychickentitty Oh look everyone, the atheist is using cynicism to demean and belittle a devoted Christian. God does not validate through scientific proof, my friend, Never has, never will. However, the world around us can provide compelling evidence that God does exist. On the other hand, there is no "scientific proof" that can validate that God DOES NOT exist. Thus, atheists are left to revel in cynicism until the day they meet God face to face.
DefendingMormonism 10 months ago
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windigo77 1 year ago
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windigo77 1 year ago
@windigo77 Did you know Mormons have the some of the highest rates of antidepressant use and suicide in the country? Glass House Much? People oppressed are miserable. Mormons are oppressed, Gays are oppressed, and Atheists are oppressed. It happens.
windigo77 1 year ago
@windigo77 Actually you are wrong, they are among the happiest. Take the time to ask members and you would see.
JonathonWilder 1 year ago
@JonathonWilder Statistics say otherwise. My father was an EMT for many many... many years in my small mormon community. He, along with statistics showing higher levels of depression in Utah, said that 1 in 3 ambulance calls he went on was an attempted suicide. There, you have statistical evidence, and anecdotal. Utahan's do have a higher rate of antidepressant use, and depression. Fact.
windigo77 1 year ago
So mormons believe they have the truth about what being gay is all about or claim they know what God thinks. Well...the mormons believe in a book written by a man in where we can read that Jesus traveled to America...sorry but it's just the most ridiculous thing. Live your lives and believe what you believe but leave others out of it and stop your gay bashing campaigns.
MarkieWatch100 1 year ago
I find Mormonism to be disgusting and amoral, you were not born that way, you can change. Mormonism is a choice, a ridiculous one, but yours to make. Thankfully this is a free country. I know you do not believe in karma, but you will pay for all the harm you cause in the name of your god, especially to the children brainwashed from birth in your homes. I do not wish you any harm, I just wish to be where you are not.
ac7933 1 year ago 2
@ac7933 Your aggressive language reminds me of the "love" and "compassion" exerted by members of the gay movement towards Mormons in the wake of Prop 8, e.g. firing LDS employees, spray paint Mormon churches, etc.
And Mormons are disgusting and intolerable?
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism Turning the other cheek is a value I do not share with you, you cannot fathom the depth of my contempt . Do not forget boycotting your businesses, I do not want my money supporting your lifestyle.
ac7933 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism mormon people are amazing spirts i am not mormon but on what grounds and rights do you have to say that
masexful 1 year ago
@DefendingMormonism I have a question concerning Mormon doctrine. Does mormon doctrine embrace the idea of total depravity and original sin? Or do does it embrace the idea of people being inherently good?
Dudethatlikes 1 year ago
@Dudethatlikes I personally believe people are inherently good, but until Jesus atoned for our sins we did suffer from the original transgression commited by Adam and Eve. Yet even today, though we are inherently good Satan still tempts use and tries to turn us away. Which is why there is so much evil in this world. I am Mormon
JonathonWilder 1 year ago
@JonathonWilder You personal view is very interesting, but is there any official Mormon doctrine referring to the matter? Or is that just generally something that is left up to the average member?
Dudethatlikes 1 year ago
@JonathonWilder There is zero, yes, ZERO, proof for jesus christ even walking the earth. :)
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@XforeverlongingX I'm going to use one of your favorites here: "You're ignorant." The word "ignorant" refers to a person being unaware or uneducated of certain facts, such as (in this case), the FACT that Jesus Christ was a real individual. There is plenty of non-biblical historical evidence that supports this. You, madam troll, use the word "ignorant" to describe someone who does not share your personal views. See? Now you're getting an English lesson as well as a history lesson. Are you fed?
CJC1295DAC 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC No. "There is plenty of non-biblical historical evidence that supports this." The supposed accounts that are non-biblical are even less descriptive than the contradicting gospels that it plagiarizes from. There is NO evidence for the existence of jesus christ. Nice try, but you've failed.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@CJC1295DAC Ignorance is used because it applies. It applies because you claim Jesus was a real person. I am telling you, sir, that there is no evidence to prove that he was.
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
@DefendingMormonism "firing LDS employees, spray paint Mormon churches, etc." What is worse? putting paint on a building ? or the members in that building saying you cannot be marrid, you cannot be at the bedside of your dying lover, you cannot have hundreds of rights that married couples do, you cannot share healthcare, you are second class citizens. Now, I ask again, which party is the gigantically worse offender?
XforeverlongingX 11 months ago
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masexful 1 year ago
Thank you for this video. I felt it conveyed the LDS mindset on the subject very well.
joshstoph 1 year ago
@joshstoph Appreciate it.
DefendingMormonism 1 year ago
I appreciate that you took the time to add sources to your video. I do not agree with many of the points made.
1. The vast majority of people say they experience little or no choice in who they are attracted to. It makes no difference whether it's genetic, epigenetic, hormones in the womb, or early environmental factors - it's very very difficult to change your sexual orientation. And most people live a happier life by accepting their orientation rather than fighting against it.
pkiverson 1 year ago 6
2. There is a reason why the NARTH quote says "SOME people can and do change". They don't tell you that some is an incredibly low percentage of the people who try. And there is a high percentage of people who try that are psychologically damaged. The founders of Exodus International are now openly gay and apologize for all the harm they have caused. SOME people may change, but the vast majority will not.
pkiverson 1 year ago
@pkiverson 3. Why do different groups opposing gay rights advertise themselves as "promoting the family unit"? It's totally offensive. Gay people have families too, and you're not promoting their families. In fact you're doing your best to make it as difficult for their families as possible, so perhaps you should advertise yourself more accurately as "promoting the family unit (unless it's a gay family)".
pkiverson 1 year ago
@pkiverson 4. Equal rights are not a religious issue. Mormons believe that being of certain other religions is sinful, yet have no problem supporting the 1st amendment. Mormons believe divorce (apart from adultery) is sinful, yet would you actually want to outlaw divorce? Mormons believe marriage is ordained by the Judeo-Christian God, yet would you outlaw atheist marriages?
pkiverson 1 year ago
Great video.
ChristopherMillz 1 year ago
1 hour ago
The science right now supports the notion that homosexuality is a combination of genetic makeup and environment. The term environment has more to do with physical environment than social interactions in the biological sense. Regardless, it does not leave the person who is homosexual with a choice as to being homosexual. The idea that it is a disease to be cured is ignorant and offensive; as there are ZERO harmful effects to the individual or society. Educate yourselves!
adamsinclair007 1 year ago 17
@adamsinclair007
you do err my fellow.
read exodus chapter one. but maybe you don't believe the Biblio. so yeah... anyways...
InvisibleGodBlessYou 1 year ago
@InvisibleGodBlessYou Where is the error? I'm fairly certain the book of Exodus has nothing to do with science, reason, or common sense for that matter. Leave your religion in your religion. In THIS COUNTRY, we do not have to be subject to laws derived exclusively from archaic non-sensical biblical rants from the Bronze Age!
adamsinclair007 1 year ago
@adamsinclair007 nah, its just an excuse to accept homosexuality.
elprincepe 1 year ago
@elprincepe ?
adamsinclair007 1 year ago
@elprincepe i don't with your genetic argument, its just an excuse for people to accept homosexuality.
elprincepe 1 year ago
@elprincepe And yet the science supports it. It's a good thing that reality doesn't require your agreeing with it.
Regardless, homosexuals aren't going away. They deserve the same rights that you have and the same opportunities of a legal social contract with the people they love and decide to spend their lives with.
adamsinclair007 1 year ago
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@adamsinclair007 Actually, there is no evidence whatsoever that being a homosexual has anything to do with genetics....
xX3DG4meXx 1 year ago
@adamsinclair007 I must disagree my good sir. Homosexuality is just as deviant and harmful to society as heterosexuality. Other than that, good points all in all.
CJC1295DAC 11 months ago
@adamsinclair007
There are ZERO harmful effects of high risk behaviors such as anal sex? Interesting observation, I wonder how you came to that conclusion.
racevws 10 months ago
@racevws Rather than read what I wrote and actually contribute to the conversation, you simply make up an argument and attack it. Allowing homosexuals to marry and acknowledging their committed relationships has ZERO harmful effects to the individual or society. When you speak of "high risk behaviors", then heterosexuals that take part in "high risk behaviors" (ie multiple partners, unsafe sex, etc.) have no advantage over homosexuals. But hey, let's deny a group rights based on your ignorance.
adamsinclair007 10 months ago
@fitasafiddle123
Fortunately some Mormons like him exists:
watch?v=ubZQ5TgFRac
But when a church is unable take criticism and instead proceed to censor opposition, they show their moral bankruptcy.
WeAreTheRobots 1 year ago
@WeAreTheRobots - you and robot guy are a dime a dozen on here. You hold as much clout as Slater and Waldorf on the Muppet show with your heckling. It's boring, run of the mill "Anti-Mormon" sentiment and not even very original. Make sure you hit your personal libraries and dig up some more bastardized Journal of Discourses quotes or other LDS church history commentary because that's all you've got in life. Keep spray painting your tags on videos because all it does is alerts us all who you are.
THELDSLIFE 1 year ago
@THELDSLIFE Again...the logic? Where is your reasoning? Remember, Mormons are the ones prodding at gays, not the other way around. I do not know any gay groups out there trying to create laws that bans mormonism. Stop being so defensive of your own religion and start defending why you believe gays should change their sexual orientation. That is the topic of this pointless video that we are supposed to be chatting about.
jefdub22 1 year ago
@THELDSLIFE
In summary, you have no counter arguments and prefer to resort to obvious fallacies, dismissing the shameful attitudes of the Mormon church.
Props to those Mormons who are not afraid to stand up against their own church.
WeAreTheRobots 1 year ago 2
@WeAreTheRobots - the church is made up of people but the people do not make up the church. Paul often spoke to those in other cities and would constantly marvel on HOW quickly they would stray from the Gospel. We live in an imperfect world.... salvation is not given to the righteous. What men had thought in ancient days could parallel the attitudes and thoughts of men during the early days of the church. Take the story of the man who was born blind. The Apostles were LESS than perfect then too.
THELDSLIFE 1 year ago
@THELDSLIFE
Bad excuse. Anyway, when I say "the church" in this context, I mean all of those involved by direct action (funding the pro-prop8 campaign), supporting this action ideologically and/or just passively contemplating it without speaking out.
Now, did you support proposition 8? Are you in favor of banning gay marriage?
If yes, how do you reconcile that with the non-hating you say you profess?
Nobody is forcing you to be gay or marry someone of your same gender.
WeAreTheRobots 1 year ago 2