The real story is that christian missionaries targeted the town and moved in covertly by buying land next to town and built their houses there in order to foil Walser's plans for a free-thinking society. However, the christian presence eventually became unmistakeable and it went so far that he put up a barbed wire to keep out the christians. By then it was already too late and Walser's experiment had failed by their intrusion. Not the reasons stated in this video, which are rather laughable.
@ttllyprocrastinator Where do you think those ethics came from? It's not whether someone believes in ethics or not, it's about where those ethics came from. What foundation is there for those ethics? Who decides what is ethical, man (the creation) or God (the Creator)?
You have used 1 ad hominem, 2 red haring, 1 straw man, and 1 false accusation.
@jcchurch "You cannot blame atheism on America's problems" Can we? You are understating the significance of the problem. In a way, atheism is being taught in schools (violation of 1st amendment) and it's full implications of having no ethical foundation, while it doesn't account for all of the crime, it accounts for a good portion of it. You are also using an ad hominem.
@TChapman500 You have no idea what an ad hominem is. Dr. Harrub is unable to recognize that his own system of morality has flaws. The subject of ethics is hard because every proposed system has critics with valid concerns. In the Bible, rape, genocide and slavery are all condoned. This needs to be addressed in a serious discussion on ethics in the Christian worldview.
@jcchurch "In the Bible, rape, genocide and slavery are all condoned." First off, rape is punishable by death in the Bible. God destroys the wicked as judgement and nothing can escape that judgement. For slavery, you might want to take a second look at what the Bible actually says. They are either servants paying off a debt (like today's community service), or they were prisoners of war. And if they were mistreated in any way, then they were required to be released from their work.
@TChapman500 Rape approved by Moses: Numbers 31:7-18. Slave trade approved by God: Leviticus 25:44-46. Genocide approved by God: Numbers 33:50-56. I don't have to twist anything from your morally repugnant holy book. You and anyone else can read this sad history for yourself.
@jcchurch "Rape approved by Moses: Numbers 31:7-18." You must have overlooked the last few verses where the army was punished for their crimes (rape and disobeying direct orders from God to destroy the enemy).
"Slave trade approved by God: Leviticus 25:44-46." You missed one key factor. God FORBIDS cruelty! In fact, elsewhere it says that injury is cause for freedom as restitution.
"Genocide approved by God: Numbers 33:50-56." It says "force out." And besides, God was passing judgement.
@TChapman500 Okay, let's keep reading that passage pertaining to rape: Numbers 31:32-35: "The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man." 32,000 virgin women were part of the spoils of war. Of course those women were raped. Your Bible says it is okay to rape virgins. In the Bible, rape, slavery, and genocide are all condoned. Why are you twisting the scriptures?
@jcchurch First off, the Bible never mentions any such activity in that passage. You are trying to blur the difference between genocide and God's judgement. And as for this slavery issue, you just love overlooking the fact that the master could lose his/her life for being cruel to the "slave," which is more accurately described as "servant." You are the one twisting the Scriptures.
@TChapman500 You do realize that the longer you keep arguing, the more passages I find on rape, slavery, and genocide. Maybe you should stop. Speaking of "stop", when should a master stop beating his slave? Exodus 21:20-21 says that masters may beat their slaves almost to the point of death, but no further (since, you know, they are property). Sounds cruel to me. Want more unethical passages from the Bible? Keep arguing with me.
@jcchurch "Speaking of "stop", when should a master stop beating his slave?" First off, are you against any sort of physical punishment for disobedience or crimes? Or is it all supposed to be just a very embarrassing lecture? Physical punishment for doing what is wrong makes people think twice before doing it again. According to what the Bible says, the physical punishment for disobedience must be easily recovered from. You are twisting the Scriptures to try to justify your position.
@TChapman500 Biblical Ethics: Slavery is ethical and salves are considered property. Slave brutality is ethical if the slave survives. 32,000 virgin women are part of the spoils of war, and thus became wives (aka they were raped) or slaves. God commanded that several cultures be completely destroyed in Deuteronomy 20:17. And if you say that this was part of "god's judgement", then that's reason enough to claim that god is evil because he approved of genocide.
(1) There is a difference between brutality and punishment. You are blurring the difference deliberately.
(2) The Bible mentions no activity of rape during the war. You've added that. The Bible does record people being taken as prisoners of war.
(3) The cultures were ordered to be destroyed because of their wickedness. The seeds of wickedness must be stopped, only delaying the destruction to spare the righteous.
(4) The creation does not set the rules. The Creator does!
@TChapman500 You are crazy. I've highlighted the most disturbing passages of scripture dealing with rape, slavery and genocide and the best you've done is say that I'm taking things out of context. What other context is there? Any thinking person would be rightfully appalled by these passages, but you give them a pass because it is in the Bible. Religion has warped your mind to the point that you are unable to distinguish ethics from ancient barbarism. You are crazy.
@jcchurch If a culture is sinful, sacrifice children and send people to hell by teaching them otherwise, then they ought to be stopped before more people get sent to hell. They had 400 years to repent, and it was not a genocide, they were told to destroy everyone INSIDE the town, not those who RAN and during that time, women and children tend to stay away from war. Besides, if a child is killed he's protected until the age of sermon.
@Stianchez I'm not sure that I'm talking with someone over the age of 5, so I'm going to explain things to you like you are 5: Every ancient culture had a god that purportedly told that culture that they were god's chosen people. Ethics in this era was entirely dependents on the outcome of actions. If you won a war of genocidal conflict, that means you were good and god was on your side. This might-makes-right mentality is unethical and the Bible is full of it.
@jcchurch Why do you have to start every rebutal with an ad hominin.
You're completely avoiding my question.
You'd rather have children tortured and sacrificed, and women raped and mistreated. Than God stepping in and stopping them from their horrible actions, and saving the righteous
Since you don't agree with God helping out, you'd rather have this continue and people getting sent to hell for it. You're sideing with the morals of the canaans?
@Stianchez Read the Wikipedia entry for "ad hominem" before you throw that phrase around. Your arguments are insulting to humanity and vile. Pointing this out is not an ad hominem. Even if the Canaanite cultures were as evil as you claim them to be, it does nothing to justify the equally heinous acts commanded by God. Two wrongs do not make a right. A god who approves of killing children for being born into the wrong culture is no god worth your time.
@jcchurch This obviously only if you put God in a small materialistic box, where the ultimate goal is you feel good in this temporal world.
You dont answer my question. God orders the seizing of the caanan's actions sending people to hell, after giving them 400 years chance to stop and repent. Until the point of utter sin.
If a child died according to the order, it was sent to heaven. Tell me, how is that not reaching salvation?
So only because I do not believe in a god I do not have ethics? Or mine is wrong, insufficient? I would not function in society, I would not help people in need?
You are quite twisted; "Intelligent Designer or Cosmic Accident" is also laughable - where you _doubt_ I marvel at the incredible way nature ant the universe is put together. It is more impressive than the idea of god, to me.
Have your belief if you like - but don't lie like you do! It's not ethical. :)
Imagine that. The only ethical standard he agrees with is the one that he was born into and grew up believing. What are the chances of that? The last half of this video is complete rubbish. You cannot blame atheism on America's problems while Christianity is still the majority religion among the population, the US Congress and US Presidents. Atheists represent just 2% of the US criminal population. If all of the atheists were removed from this country, 98% of the crime is still unaccounted.
Amen brother!
Jude3Apologetics 2 months ago
God bless you richly in 2012 !
b66175 2 months ago
The real story is that christian missionaries targeted the town and moved in covertly by buying land next to town and built their houses there in order to foil Walser's plans for a free-thinking society. However, the christian presence eventually became unmistakeable and it went so far that he put up a barbed wire to keep out the christians. By then it was already too late and Walser's experiment had failed by their intrusion. Not the reasons stated in this video, which are rather laughable.
DecepticonLeader 2 months ago
Political Truth:#1 of 4
/watch?v=dHdoEP6gtxo
iwanttocrashmybike 2 months ago
Interesting
FamilyFirstJ 2 months ago
@ttllyprocrastinator Where do you think those ethics came from? It's not whether someone believes in ethics or not, it's about where those ethics came from. What foundation is there for those ethics? Who decides what is ethical, man (the creation) or God (the Creator)?
You have used 1 ad hominem, 2 red haring, 1 straw man, and 1 false accusation.
TChapman500 2 months ago
@jcchurch "You cannot blame atheism on America's problems" Can we? You are understating the significance of the problem. In a way, atheism is being taught in schools (violation of 1st amendment) and it's full implications of having no ethical foundation, while it doesn't account for all of the crime, it accounts for a good portion of it. You are also using an ad hominem.
TChapman500 2 months ago
@TChapman500 You have no idea what an ad hominem is. Dr. Harrub is unable to recognize that his own system of morality has flaws. The subject of ethics is hard because every proposed system has critics with valid concerns. In the Bible, rape, genocide and slavery are all condoned. This needs to be addressed in a serious discussion on ethics in the Christian worldview.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch "In the Bible, rape, genocide and slavery are all condoned." First off, rape is punishable by death in the Bible. God destroys the wicked as judgement and nothing can escape that judgement. For slavery, you might want to take a second look at what the Bible actually says. They are either servants paying off a debt (like today's community service), or they were prisoners of war. And if they were mistreated in any way, then they were required to be released from their work.
TChapman500 2 months ago
@TChapman500 Rape approved by Moses: Numbers 31:7-18. Slave trade approved by God: Leviticus 25:44-46. Genocide approved by God: Numbers 33:50-56. I don't have to twist anything from your morally repugnant holy book. You and anyone else can read this sad history for yourself.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch "Rape approved by Moses: Numbers 31:7-18." You must have overlooked the last few verses where the army was punished for their crimes (rape and disobeying direct orders from God to destroy the enemy).
"Slave trade approved by God: Leviticus 25:44-46." You missed one key factor. God FORBIDS cruelty! In fact, elsewhere it says that injury is cause for freedom as restitution.
"Genocide approved by God: Numbers 33:50-56." It says "force out." And besides, God was passing judgement.
TChapman500 2 months ago
@TChapman500 Okay, let's keep reading that passage pertaining to rape: Numbers 31:32-35: "The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man." 32,000 virgin women were part of the spoils of war. Of course those women were raped. Your Bible says it is okay to rape virgins. In the Bible, rape, slavery, and genocide are all condoned. Why are you twisting the scriptures?
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch First off, the Bible never mentions any such activity in that passage. You are trying to blur the difference between genocide and God's judgement. And as for this slavery issue, you just love overlooking the fact that the master could lose his/her life for being cruel to the "slave," which is more accurately described as "servant." You are the one twisting the Scriptures.
TChapman500 2 months ago
@TChapman500 You do realize that the longer you keep arguing, the more passages I find on rape, slavery, and genocide. Maybe you should stop. Speaking of "stop", when should a master stop beating his slave? Exodus 21:20-21 says that masters may beat their slaves almost to the point of death, but no further (since, you know, they are property). Sounds cruel to me. Want more unethical passages from the Bible? Keep arguing with me.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch "Speaking of "stop", when should a master stop beating his slave?" First off, are you against any sort of physical punishment for disobedience or crimes? Or is it all supposed to be just a very embarrassing lecture? Physical punishment for doing what is wrong makes people think twice before doing it again. According to what the Bible says, the physical punishment for disobedience must be easily recovered from. You are twisting the Scriptures to try to justify your position.
TChapman500 2 months ago
@TChapman500 Biblical Ethics: Slavery is ethical and salves are considered property. Slave brutality is ethical if the slave survives. 32,000 virgin women are part of the spoils of war, and thus became wives (aka they were raped) or slaves. God commanded that several cultures be completely destroyed in Deuteronomy 20:17. And if you say that this was part of "god's judgement", then that's reason enough to claim that god is evil because he approved of genocide.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch
(1) There is a difference between brutality and punishment. You are blurring the difference deliberately.
(2) The Bible mentions no activity of rape during the war. You've added that. The Bible does record people being taken as prisoners of war.
(3) The cultures were ordered to be destroyed because of their wickedness. The seeds of wickedness must be stopped, only delaying the destruction to spare the righteous.
(4) The creation does not set the rules. The Creator does!
TChapman500 2 months ago
@TChapman500 You are crazy. I've highlighted the most disturbing passages of scripture dealing with rape, slavery and genocide and the best you've done is say that I'm taking things out of context. What other context is there? Any thinking person would be rightfully appalled by these passages, but you give them a pass because it is in the Bible. Religion has warped your mind to the point that you are unable to distinguish ethics from ancient barbarism. You are crazy.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch If a culture is sinful, sacrifice children and send people to hell by teaching them otherwise, then they ought to be stopped before more people get sent to hell. They had 400 years to repent, and it was not a genocide, they were told to destroy everyone INSIDE the town, not those who RAN and during that time, women and children tend to stay away from war. Besides, if a child is killed he's protected until the age of sermon.
You dont read carefully enough, think!
Stianchez 2 months ago
@Stianchez Comments like these should excuse you from ever being considered competent for childcare.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch So, let me get this traight. You would rather have innocent children die and get sent to hell, and women raped?
This is the moral's atheist pursue? I am so glad this world is run by the morals of God and not atheists.
Stianchez 2 months ago
@Stianchez I'm not sure that I'm talking with someone over the age of 5, so I'm going to explain things to you like you are 5: Every ancient culture had a god that purportedly told that culture that they were god's chosen people. Ethics in this era was entirely dependents on the outcome of actions. If you won a war of genocidal conflict, that means you were good and god was on your side. This might-makes-right mentality is unethical and the Bible is full of it.
jcchurch 2 months ago
@jcchurch Why do you have to start every rebutal with an ad hominin.
You're completely avoiding my question.
You'd rather have children tortured and sacrificed, and women raped and mistreated. Than God stepping in and stopping them from their horrible actions, and saving the righteous
Since you don't agree with God helping out, you'd rather have this continue and people getting sent to hell for it. You're sideing with the morals of the canaans?
These are the great morals you pursue?
Stianchez 2 months ago
@Stianchez Read the Wikipedia entry for "ad hominem" before you throw that phrase around. Your arguments are insulting to humanity and vile. Pointing this out is not an ad hominem. Even if the Canaanite cultures were as evil as you claim them to be, it does nothing to justify the equally heinous acts commanded by God. Two wrongs do not make a right. A god who approves of killing children for being born into the wrong culture is no god worth your time.
jcchurch 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jcchurch This obviously only if you put God in a small materialistic box, where the ultimate goal is you feel good in this temporal world.
You dont answer my question. God orders the seizing of the caanan's actions sending people to hell, after giving them 400 years chance to stop and repent. Until the point of utter sin.
If a child died according to the order, it was sent to heaven. Tell me, how is that not reaching salvation?
You'd rather have them sacrificed and tortured?
Stianchez 2 months ago
@jcchurch You are twisting the Scriptures to make them sound immoral. And yes, I do know what an ad hominem is.
TChapman500 2 months ago
So only because I do not believe in a god I do not have ethics? Or mine is wrong, insufficient? I would not function in society, I would not help people in need?
You are quite twisted; "Intelligent Designer or Cosmic Accident" is also laughable - where you _doubt_ I marvel at the incredible way nature ant the universe is put together. It is more impressive than the idea of god, to me.
Have your belief if you like - but don't lie like you do! It's not ethical. :)
ttllyprocrastinator 2 months ago
Imagine that. The only ethical standard he agrees with is the one that he was born into and grew up believing. What are the chances of that? The last half of this video is complete rubbish. You cannot blame atheism on America's problems while Christianity is still the majority religion among the population, the US Congress and US Presidents. Atheists represent just 2% of the US criminal population. If all of the atheists were removed from this country, 98% of the crime is still unaccounted.
jcchurch 2 months ago