What is the Last Day?

[whittle4u]

I see your point, but where are you getting that the last day would be a 1000 year period?

[richardperry2]

@whittle4u - Revelation 20

[dvmodell]

the more i read the scriptures, the more clear it is that the rapture happens after the tribulation. i find that it is important to take all of the bible into consideration for this topic, not just a few verses. previously, my pre-trib views were only based on only a coulple of verses, but taking all of the scriptures into context plainly shows that the ressurection and the rapture occurr at teh same time. this was something God showed me after asking him to show me the truth about the rapture.

[richardperry2]

Tell me which trumpet is the last one of 1 Cor. 15:51-52??

Also, this chain has drifted off topic for this video. So please write me at my email since I may delete our rambling from comments.

[boindoin]

The 7th trumpet in Rev. is declared to be a woe. When the 4th trumpet sounded, the angel said, "Woe, Woe, Woe" to the inhabitants of the earthby reason of the three trumpets that are yet to sound. When the fifth trumpet sounds, again it declares that one woe is past, and two woes are yet to come. "The second woe is past, and the third woe is coming quickly" Rev. 11:14 So the 7th trumpet is a trumpet of woe, rather than a trumpet of hallelujah or praise to God. 2 very different trumpets.God Bless

[boindoin]

I just dont think that post-trib is like a traditional Jewish wedding where the bride must be constantly ready for the husband who could come anytime. Obviously we are Christ's bride. Also if we knew the season the thief was going to appear in the night, we would not be robbed.

[richardperry2]

Here Christ says to His bride, "But IF you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you." Rev 3:3

[boindoin]

Paul tells us in Thessalonians 5 "But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say 'peace and safety' the sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains on a pregnant woman. I will also post a comment next about the trump of God which happens at the rapture and how it differs from the 7th trumpet in Revelation. We hit on this prior.

[richardperry2]

"the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night" 1 thess 5:4 BUT, you brothers are not in darkness that that the day of the LORD will surprise you like a thief !!!!

Why is the 7th trumpet of Rev 11 different from the last trumpet?

[boindoin]

Sorry for the double comment, I thought it didn't post. Also, if we are taken after the tribulaiton, then we will know when he is coming for His saints based on the 7 year peace treaty that marks the beginning of the tribulation. Therefore we can deduct when He will appear, which is at the end of the tribulation. Just wait seven years, and He will be there right? Matthew 24:50 says "The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of."

[richardperry2]

Yes, we will know the general time - just not the day or hour. This mystery is revealed in the understanding of the Day of Trumpets the 5th feast day of God's feasts which is the next feast and the 1st feast of the Festival of Ingathering. The Day of Trumpets starts on the day and hour of the New Moon of the 7th month. But, no one will see it because the sun, moon and stars will be dark at that time according to Christ - Matt 24:29

[boindoin]

Hmm...interesting. What scriptures would you recommend for me to get familiar with God's feasts? How do we know it is the next feast? Any scripture for the festival of ingathering and the day and hour of the New Moon of the 7th month?

[boindoin]

Just re-read Matthew 24:29 and I did not get the impression that Christ was speaking of the Day of Trumpets or a New Moon of the 7th month. Where does the bible refer to these things? I am aware of the trumps in Revelation, but this does not ring a bell for me. Thanks for your responses.

[richardperry2]

The Three annual festivals which incorporate the 7 feasts - see Exodus 23, Leviticus 23, Numbers 28 and Deuteronomy 16 to get started.

Again, Feasts mean appointed times - in this case Yahweh's appointed times.

[boindoin]

The last 3.5 years of the tribulation sounds to me like God's wrath. (according to Revelation) It is clearly not God's judgement, I agree. I should have said testing in my last email. Revelation 3:10 states in the church to Philedelphia "Because you have kept the word of my perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upon the earth." This is clearly in reference to the tribulation.

[richardperry2]

The last 3.5 years of tribulation is the wrath and fury of Satan. He has been thrown down to earth Rev. 12. God's wrath comes on the Day of the LORD which is after the Great Tribulation.

[boltingpuppies]

boindoin, yes, that was written to the church of Philadelphia and the reason they are kept is given. Check out church of Thyatira who are told they will be cast into tribulation for idolatry if they don't repent. Also check church of Pergamum, if they don't repent Jesus said He will fight them with the sword of His mouth. Jesus doesn't fight with the sword of His mouth until He comes back in glory. God Bless.

[boindoin]

So if the rapture comes at the end of the tribulation, does Jesus immediately return to the earth with the raptured saints to set foot on the mount of olives? The rapture seems out of place if we aret to immediately return to the earth with Christ to set up the millennial kingdom for a thousand years.

[boindoin]

In reference to the Day of the Lord. Paul states is 2 Thess 2:3 that "it (the day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostacy comes first. Interestingly, before the King James Version was written, there were seven different translations of the Bible that agreed with the translation "departing first" and not "falling away". Not until the King James was published in 1611 was the original text translated " falling away". The first part of the verse says "Let no one in any way decieve you..."

[boltingpuppies]

The original Greek word is a)postasiða. It literally means: a falling away, defection, apostasy. You may want to get a Greek dictionary, it really helps to read the original language because Greek is very specific. There is zero doubt what the word means as it was originally written before any transations, English or otherwise.

[boindoin]

The rest of the verse states that the departure must come before the man of sin is revealed. It is very clear. This is the same man (antichrist) that must be in place to establish the 7 year peace treaty with Israel to mark the onset of the tribulation. Some will say that Paul is referring to people who fall away into apostacy, but that's now how the earlier translators of the English Bible took the passage. These seven English translations were written between 1384 and 1608.

[boltingpuppies]

That is not what the verse states at all.

2Thess2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first **AND** the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

Paul is clear that BOTH of these things must happen prior to our being gathered to Jesus. You cannot delete the word AND. BOTH of these events must happen prior to our gathering to Jesus.

[boindoin]

I actually took the scripture ver batem out of my bible. I think we may be looking at this verse a little differently. The apostasy must come first AND the antichrist must be revealed. The apostasy does not come second or after the day of the Lord. Is the day of the Lord generally referred to as the tribulation? I am open to learning more about the post-trib viewpoint and that is why i am here. I am very open minded, but the scripture speaks to me more from the pre-trib viewpoint.

[boltingpuppies]

2Thess2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first AND the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction...

BOTH of these events must happen. We cannot delete the word AND. AND means BOTH events not just one event.

[boindoin]

The rapture after the tribulation is not imminent.. He cannot come like a theif in the night if you know when he is coming. Unlike the days of Noah and of Lot. God took Noah and Lot away from the judgement. This is what Jesus meant when he said just like the days of Noah and Lot.

[boltingpuppies]

We still won't know the day or the hour, but we can know the season. Jesus coming quickly means suddenly, not imminently. Imminently is not a word that was used by our Lord Jesus. Both the flood and the fire came suddenly to those around Noah and Lot. They were not caught unaware, they were warned and heeded the warnings to prepare and leave. God did not remove either Noah or Lot from the earth.  Both were protected here on earth and continued to live after both of the accounts you mention.

[boltingpuppies]

*also, I did reply to your other comment about the phrase 'falling away' below. God bless.

[boindoin]

I appreciate your comments.. So you believe that there will be a special place where all believers go during the last 3.5 years of the tribulation? We will not need to die for our faith or take the mark? Please respond to my comment about the rapture at the same time as the second coming of Christ and his establishment of his kingdom. Why would both the rapture and the second coming be at the same time? Thanks for your dialogue. This is not an issue to divide the brethren obviously.

[boltingpuppies]

I agree! I am falling asleep and need to get to bed but will write you more off-line, hopefully tomorrow. Good fellowshipping with you.

[BrotherMurray]

He that endures unto the end, the same shall be saved.

[boindoin]

the bible says that no man knows the day or the hour..(sermon on the mount i believe) If the rapture is post-trib, then cant we (by mathmatics) figure out when the rapture will be? All we would have to do is count seven years from the start of the 7 year peace treaty the antichrist makes with Israel. How is that scenario like the days of Noah or the days of Lot like the scripture says? It seems like God keeps his people from the hour of of his judgement. Just curious.

[richardperry2]

God does keep His people from His judgment.

The Great Tribulation is Not God's judgment it is the time of trial and testing that will come on the whole earth. God's wrath comes after Christ has returned - on the Day of the LORD. Check it out in scripture - God's Wrath.