Oh yeah, also when making a movie. They use many effects angles etc. She has no idea on the math. Because she doesn't understand movie making either. They cover their bases. Shoot more than the need, so there is NO way she can "do the math" accurately. I wish she never spoke out, because again, I knew she was the double, thought she did great, but her attitude sucks. bitch. You got paid to do a "stunt" no matter. Stunts & "models" in movies are very important, but that's all the are in a MOVIE.
What a prima bitch assoluta. I knew Natalie didn't do most of the dance moves, because even the closeups of her were awkard looking, not fluid as a fully trained ballerina, but like many already said, this was a movie, and Portman was the star. She did the acting, plus all the CGI effects were done by the CGI crew. They get a small mention. But, do we think she actually grew feathers? lol, hell no. I didn't like the movie anyway. Not my "type" but, the dance double had nothing to do with it
I'm just gonna remind Ms. Lane about her words BEFORE the Oscar:
In December 2010, Lane gave an interview to Kina Poon of Dance Magazine in which she answers the question "and how does it feel to be part of a performance that some critics are giving Natalie Portman rave reviews for?" by saying that "I'm not really looking for any sort of recognition. The process was a huge learning experience and I got everything I wanted out of it. But Portman deserves the recognition. She worked really hard."
@akissy Also, Portman said in a November 2010 interview with WBUR that "there's a wonderful dancer, Sarah Lane, who did the more complicated pointe work. But I did the stuff THAT WAS POSSIBLE TO LEARN IN A YEAR." This might've been two years ago, but it shouldn't've happened. She knew she was a DOUBLE, and that she had make the audience BELIEVE something. Portman never said she was a professional dancer after 1 1/2 years, she said she did all that was possible learning in that time!
i dont care ! haha. the acting was great and the dancing was great ! she deserved the oscar & the dancer deserves some recognition just for being a great dancer not the fact that she was in the movie or not.
Portman did ballet long before this. The 8 months was just training getting ready for the film. She already knew the dance forms. She was just warming up. 80% of the dance shots are natalie. The director did the math and said so. She has talent and she is a great actress. Do research before you sit on your computer and judge.
@SexyTamara1985 she did ballet up until she was 13 or 14 - the exact same amount of time i spent doing ballet, and trust me, once you stop you might as well have never even trained at all. you do not simply pick up where you left off when you start again.
@anditspaganpoetry 100% Correct! Add to that full-time prof. ballet training from the age of 10/11 is another world compared to recreational AMATEUR dancing which is what many young girls do for a while, NP included. Only deluded/arrogant/ignorant ppl believe it possible to reach Lane's standard after a year and in one's s late 20'!!. Some film fans get upset when actors are derided, but are happy to trash dancers. Why?
He didn't say "85% of the dancing was done by Natalie", he said "85% of that movie was Natalie". That is accurate. The movie happens to be about a ballet dancer, but it is still a movie and the acting takes significantly more place than the dancing. So, all right, Portman sucks as ballerina. Who cares? She is a good actress. Nobody gave her an award to the best prima ballerina of the year, they gave her an Oscar for her acting.
would sarah be as upset if natalie had not won the oscar? I´m not sure about that. and for someone who always claims she does not want any credits, she is complaining a lot about not getting any. the film was not just about dancing. actors often get doubles. I don´t see e.g. daniel craigs double complaining about james bond shots. I mean, if you are cast as a double, what do you expect? I´m sorry if sarah is upset but even if she danced a lot, natalie did a great job too.
stupid issue. c'mon, just bcoz Portman won an Oscar and now you're complaining about not enough credits for your work?! i mean in the first place, and i'm sure, it's not only the dance scene where the Oscar scrutinize for her to receive an award and second, i think it's part on the contract about the doubling blah blah blah.. you're not an actress honey!
of course "85% of the film was natalie" because the camera was following her freaking head and face around the entire film. any 'dancing' that natalie portman did was atrocious. Sarah has a right to be annoyed, because the audience is mislead into thinking that natalie portman achieved professional level ballet dancing in under a year. it's NOT possible. all the footwork, full body shots and turns that portman so wrongly got the credit for was at the sacrifice of Lane and her lifetime of work.
@NinjaTree6 That is exactly the point. Black Swan was not the production of the Swan Lake ballet, it was a movie. Therefore, 85% of the film was the leading actress, who was chosen because of her acting, not her dancing. Sarah Lane, who is not the best dancer that I have seen and by far, certainly dances a million times better than Natalie Portman, who is an actress and certainly acts a million times better than Sarah Lane or any other really good ballerina.
I'm sorry, but what other stunt double in any movie has ever complained about not getting enough credit? You're a stunt double, not an actor. You should be honored. Sarah read the contract, she knew she wasn't going to get much recognition anyway. And why the hell is it Natalies job to thank her at the awards? Who does that? Might as well thank the cameraman too while you're at it.
@vintagebabe101 she doesn't care about attention, or credit! she's representing real professional ballerinas world wide, and she doesn't want them to be downgraded by the belief that someone can learn those skills in under a year. it's just not possible.
Portman is full of shit. plain and simple. portman trained for a grand total of 8 months. anyone who thinks you can learn to dance on pointe in that small amount of time hasnt a clue of what ballet requires. it takes the first year just build the muscle and strength in the ankles and feet. then after year one you can start turns and jumps. natalie was most def. doubled. she's a spoiled little snot who thinks she can do everything. sorry hon.
I don't think she is trying to drag out her "fame" I think she just wants people to respect it and understand that it takes years to get to that level of dance and it was insulting for them to say that Natalie had done all of that dancing after just a year of training.
STFU stupid cunt! You are nothing but a no talent nobody gossping bitch. It is a shame that in the age of intelligence (supposedly) someone like you actually is considered a reputable professional b/c you are not!! You are nothing but a hatefilled little cunt who does not but spread gossip and lies just like you did in high school you jealous nobody cunt.
STFU stupid cunt! You are nothing but a no talent nobody gossping bitch. It is a shame that in the age of intelligence (supposedly) someone like you actually is considered a reputable professional b/c you are not!! You are nothing but a hatefilled little cunt who does not but spread gossip and lies just like you did in high school you jealous nobody cunt.
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STFU stupid cunt! You are nothing but a no talent nobody gossping bitch. It is a shame that in the age of intelligence (supposedly) someone like you actually is considered a reputable professional b/c you are not!! You are nothing but a hatefilled little cunt who does not but spread gossip and lies just like you did in high school you jealous nobody cunt.
Ask mary Helen Bowers Bitch. She trained her and I see no reason for her to lie. She talked about how she would train these rediciously long hours. Natalie Portman is a one of a kind person who is above average intelligence and integrity. So why would she lie?
I suspect folks that when the critics and fellow actors were voting for Portman for *ACTING* awards it was her *ACTING* they had in mind as opposed to any supposed dancing she supposedly did not do.
The studio should have hired a dancer used to doing stunt work for movies. No one is doubting SL did the best part of the dancing but I think she wanted to be co-starring with Natalie which of course was not part of the deal. I saw the movie to see NP's acting and I never expected her to be a "real" ballerina. Hollywood has had always used great stunt doubles for action movies and I don't see any of them griping like SL did.
The audience wasn't intended for ballet professionals. It was for the general public. And from an outsider's point of view, Natalie Portman was really amazing and I didn't really notice any difference. Of course, those who practice ballet can probably spit out a ton of criticism but as I've said, the Black Swan wasn't entirely intended just for ballet professionals
SL is happy dancing at the bst pro company in the West - American Ballet Theatre - and is highly regarded. Somehow I doubt many 'ballet' films will get made in the foreseeable future. Furthermore classical ballet training takes such little time in LaLa Land that the next flavour of the month film star won't need a 'stunt' double, surely!
Right about hype. Nothing wrong with promoting anything, but their blatant, desperate lying by omission coupled with trying to keep SL quiet beggars belief. Had NP actually tried to 'demonstrate' her alleged ballet skills(!) in any of her many interviews her fans would have had to believe their eyes - i.e. she could not, never could, do anything prof. ballerinas do. But no, her deluded fans know all about ballet now thanks to H'wood's shenanigans. Only takes a yr to become a ballerina, right?
Why should anyone who gets pissed on & cheated by film studios then go away without a murmur? No way SL (soloist with one of the few top companies on the planet) was TOLD she would be:- Stunt double, Hand double, simply she would be credited. Her ignorance of H'wood's lack of good grace was her undoing. Moral of this tale - never trust ppl in films, they R snakeoil salesmen with all the ethics of a dead skunk. What a god-awful film it would have been with NP doing ALL the ballet.
I sort of get why Sarah Lane is so sore. She was the real ballerina, the real star... the real "Nina" and she didn't get an iota of the credit she deserved. That's why now she's fighting to the death for it. She's fighting her way into the limelight. She really wants some noriety. She's willing to go "Black Swan" for it.
--For Both Swans "Natalie" and "Sarah," Dane Youssef
And Christ, Natalie herself walked home with the Oscar, the Golden Globe, every Critic's Choice Award ever there was... to name just a few. But... keep in mind, everyone. They were all for acting, not dancing. Ms. Lane herself should keep that in mind.
Come to think of it, so should a lot of the angry commenters on this page.
I acutally kinda understand sarah, she doesn't want fame all she wants is a litlle credit. Afcorse nathalie gave a great acting preformance but people are also giving her credit for the dancing she didn't do. How would you feel if someone else would take credit for something that you did?
Lmfao, Sarah just stop. You were hired to be in a movie, you got credited as a double.. which is exactly what you were, and you were paid to do your job. People didn't go to see this movie for the fucking ballet, they went to see Natalie Portman act the hell out of the film.
Right again. Film fan(atics) who revere stars and in this case know nothing of ballet are in possession of Received Wisdom when it comes to ballet. So anyone who challenges them/lets the cat out of the bag is a big embarrassment and must be shot down in flames by all means possible. Fortunately some of us still have eyes to see, and experience to back-up our opinions. Can't fool all of the ppl all of the time, try as they might.
Just seen the awesome Guillem in London in 'moder'n works requiring her still-perfect ballet technique, aged 46. Many ballet dancesr go on past their 40's even if they no longer command top roles. They are so wondrously trained, are more informed on nutrition, have great ballet physios and take such care of their bodies, that's why they last a lot longer than in my day. BTW he who shouts'Fact' the loudest must be right on ballet matters in BS. Got to admire the devotion to duty, tho'.
Really, who cares? The dancing in the movie was sublime, and body doubles in dance movies rarely get more than a nod in the credits anyway. Sarah Lane was listed twice in the credits, and was paid well for her work. Lane is just trying to drag out her 15 minutes.
@Lirit331 are you serious? nat had people workshipping her for her 'breathtaking dancing' and sarah only got her name on credit. two times. Wow, how nice. of course she doesnt like that natalie got all the credit and she got nearly none. natalie didnt even thank her in her oscar speech!The movie's editor said that of the 35 body shot natalie did 12 of them. Sarah is a fantastic ballerina and you cant blame her for wanting the credit she deserved. Watch her ABC interview, shes not a famewhore.
@Lirit331 It's not that that's Lane's problem, it's that the studio created a lot of hype around Portman's dancing as part of the Oscar campaign and a lot of people believed that it was Portman doing most of the dancing. It's not that she didn't get credited it's just that she saw it as devaluing ballet because people believed you could get to the standard that Nina displays in the film easily when in reality it takes years.
@Lirit331 no she doesn't! She just thinks it's insulting that everybody thinks u can become a ballerina in one year! People just should have more respect for that kind of art. I'm glad she stands up for this!
It has nothing to do with the credits (or lack of them).
It has to do with people LYING.
Portman and her handlers first insinuated and implied and then just outright LIED about Portman's dancing in the film to help swing her the oscar.
If you make a youtube video anonymously you probably won't mind people copying it and sharing it .... but what if someone claimed it as their own work to help them win a film makers award?
@theawecabinet Right! And for those wondering why anyone would support NP and the rest of them in their lies - it's called money, plus the hope of staying in with the H'wood crowd. Any 'teacher' who can only get a so-called talented pupil to the pathetic standard(!) reached by NP should be ashamed of herself. But no-one can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse - a real teacher would havetold the truth - NP physically not right for ballet, so why bother? That guy Oscar has a lot to answer for...
NP's teacher (I forget her name) got a lot of publicity for her studio/ class. And who can blame her?
This is what is so depressing. The deceitful, insincere and money & status obsessed Hollywood industry encourages all who get caught up in it to lower their standards & ethics too.
In the end it is the public driving this race to inauthenticity by mindlessly buying into whatever's put in front of their faces.
The money at the root of all evil starts life in OUR wallets.
@Lirit331 If you watch the ABC News interview with Lane, she made it very clear that she's not after fame. She's upset because the publicists for Black Swan tried to convince the world that someone can become a professional ballerina with merely two years of training (how long Natalie Portman trained) while anyone who knows anything about ballet knows it takes far longer (Lane had 22 years when she filmed). As she said, it's degrading to the craft to insinuate someone can master it so quickly
@swinche95 NP did what millions of little girls do - i.e. very low-level AMATEUR classes for a short while, that's all - a zillion miles from professional full-time training young girls with the right physique and talent have at the Royal Ballet school, Vaganova etc for approx. 8 YEARS. NP could not 'refresh her memory/body' unless she had been a professional ballerina! She had/has NO physical aptitude for ballet & it shows in BS. geting skinny does not turn her or anyone into a ballet dancer.
@Lirit331 WRONG. Sarah Lane is representing REAL ballet dancers all over the country. she doesn't want them to suffer a disservice by the belief that natalie portman was able to learn and execute all that dancing in under a year. that's just not possible! for the director to say that natalie portman REALLY did all the full body shots is complete bullshit, and trivializes the years of blood, sweat and tears (literally) that goes into achieving that level of skill.
@NinjaTree6 Oh please. If that were true, as a REAL ballet dancer, Sarah Lane would never have willingly taken the job as a body double for Natalie Portman in this movie. The entire point of a dancer working as a body double is to MAKE THE AUDIENCE BELIEVE THAT THE CHARACTER IS JUST THAT GOOD! No one really cares about who danced what, they care about believability on the screen. If the audience can believe ONE PERSON did all acting and dancing, then the body double did their job.
@Lirit331 right but the director deliberately tried to hide that a double was used at all. why would they do that if it were really JUST about the ACTING, and not the dancing? if it was "just the double doing her job" why try to hide it?
ballerinas work their entire lives to master just one movement. i would be equally pissed if i were a double for someone that i KNOW could not do ballet, and then the world believe she mastered those things after only a year- i'd put up a pretty big stink too.
@Lirit331 and if they wanted the audience to believe that natalie portman really was capable of doing ALL the dancing- they failed. right away i could spot natalies unrefined flailing of her arms vs. the professional training of Lane.
@Lirit331 if you're a dancer who's worked you're whole life to get your body and dancing to the level required of a professional and that is downplayed by saying someone who studied for a year as an adult looks just the same, you care...and it was a great movie, but the dancing was not sublime
@balletonly07 Let's not make assumptions, shall we? I'd be more than happy to provide you with my dance resume, including names of my ballet teachers from back in my pre-injury days when I studied at the Miami Conservatory, SAB, MCB, SFB, and CPYB on a pre-professional level, but that seems trite.
My initial point still stands - she knew what she signed up for, and then threw a hissy fit when she got it. Which is lame. The end.
You can make anything look a certain way. Digital filmmaking has really changed movies a lot. Unfortunately, it's creating situations like this. But you don't always need technology to make something look the way you want everyone to believe it looks. Careful, controlled PR can do that, too. That's what this is about--the PR people getting a little too caught up in the smoke and mirrors so that awards could be won. Sarah has every right to speak out. Others wronged should, too.
@RLviddy Quite right. Add to that the willingness (in this case on the part of fans/studio employees whose only knowledge of ballet comes from DA etc) to swallow the hype and it all adds up to silly posts from these ppl who cannot participate in other, real ballet vds on YT due to total ignorance of ballet technique. Nor can they SEE. the fluidity, physique & strength needed for even 'simple' elegant pointe work. H'wood - the land of the blind where the one-eyed man is king......
@MrKLT1945 Very blind indeed. Talking about doubles, weight loss, how dance 'should be' etc. doesn't really apply to this situation. It's more about realizing how blinded DA et. al. are by prestige, and how that compromises them as people and artists and affects other people. Sarah Lane, who lives and loves her art, is not in that group. But someone like Benjamin Millepied, who casts out an unnerving energy and uses people and things as a means to an end, is very much such a person.
@RLviddy Ah yes, Monsieur Millepied, who as a young member of NYCB went with them when they 'took Balanchine' back to his (GB's) native Russia. All great dancers past & present who trained so long & so hard (as he had to, no one-year quick fix for him!) have to thank him et al for the insulting H-wood rubbish. He should fit in very nicely. What happens to him and his reputation in ballet when he gets dumped, as he will. Will his ego survive the loss of red carpets & fawning sycophants?
Well that hollywood rubbish is far more popular than anything that ballet produced EVER.
What will happen with Sarah Lane once she retires, which will be in a few years? All she will ever be, is the dance double in Black Swan. She didn't do anything that merits any attention except for being the skank, that raised that fuzz.
She even mentined it on her ABT profile, since it is the most noteworthy achievement in her life.
@MrKLT1945 Well, he chose as he chose. He'll face the consequences at some point. Sarah Lane will be fine, because she seems to know who she is. She sees a bigger picture. As for Natalie, an Oscar seems more about anticipation than achievement. It's kind of like Christmas. Once it's over, people are all at once done with it and moving on to the next holiday that takes place a week later.
@RLviddy Yes, SL certainly does know who she is & all dancers & sportsmen are aware they will have a relatively short working life but that goes with the territory! At least character roles, technical theatre work, teaching & other work available after retirement, which doesn't mean death, just a different path. It would appear that actors can put what they like on their cv but a non-film star can't! Sothe vindictiveness, ignorance & silly baby-like insults still abound! lol
@RLviddy Weird indeed. Loving one's profession & not being part of mainstream 'culture' is somehow to be denigrated. As said before, the 'Eat horse-shit -10, million flies can't be wrong' mentality flourishes, like weeds. Money & fame is all that matters, right?! Dancers, like all sports ppl, do what they do 'cos they love it & it takes HARD WORK & TALENT. We've had a bout of famous actresses bitching about lack of suitable parts as they get older & lose their 'appeal', which says a lot.
@MrKLT1945 That's kind of a different issue and it's not something that can really be generalized. It's not the actresses' fault that roles aren't written outside a narrow margin. Also, you can be skilled at something and still not get work, for whatever reason. Most actors are unemployed at any given time. Back to SL, well, when you talk openly about things, you risk censure. She stood up for herself. Hollywood hates that. Especially from a girl.
@RLviddy ..... and according to ent0r, who distorts posts from ex-dancers & teachers for obvious reasons, prof. corps members 'don't do anything'! Extraordinary! Fancy training full-time in pro school for 8 years to do nothing in the Mariinski (Kirov) for example. Off to watch them do nothing in Swan lake in London soon. All that hype but NO proof of pointe work in training/rehearsing from NP, which would have been great publicity - alas, it doesn't exist. Smoke & mirrors rules. lol
What kind of proof do you demand? You do realise that any non live performance would simply provoke you to claim that it's CGI again. IF there was any CGI involoved while Portman did the pointe work, then why wasn't it shown in the featurette?
There is no need for some training/rehearsing video since the performance in the movie speaks for itself. It's so good, that it even fools people like you. On the other hand, it might mean that you are simply not that savy about ballet.
Apparently we must 'know what to look for' 2 see NP en pointe! Some brilliant lighting would have made it it OBVIOUS who was en pointe. My query about why NO evidence of NP's pointe work in progress/rehearsal & so on STILL unanswered - that says it all. NP's poor amateur (with no technique on show), recreational stuff availbale to see on YT & is no evidence of dance ability - rather the opposite hence a very wise move to film acting. Happy to discuss ballet technique tips with anyone
The proof is on screen. No matter how good the CGI is, if you know what to look for, you can spot it easily. The fact, that you think that the FEET were CGIed onto her legs, says more a lot your unwillingness to accept facts and your lack of common sense.
Her 5% or 10 % participation on the movie she agreed to do this part without tending to be famous or get any credit...NOW SHE IS YELLING EVERYONE OVER STEP NATALIE....GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE Sarah!
@ad ballet........... So we have a scenario where an actor, hidden in VERY crafty lighting allegedly dances elegantly & fluidly en pointe but suddenly becomes physically incapable of walking in pointe shoes (which also needs turnout to avoid falling over) so wears satin flats on the end of totally turned-in stumpy legs for the stiff, ungainly but so-important BS entrance. How many years will pass before the Flashdance effect wears off & we get a little honesty from the good ppl in La La Land?
to @adballet - Forgot 2 say we know there is a whole lot more 2 pointe work than ossification - like strong BASIC technique, powerful intrinsic muscles, strength in turnout, torso etc, all of which take a great deal of time. Curious too no vds of NP VISIBLY learning/rehearsing pointe work exist. Surely an actor who did this would be rightly proud & would like it to be seen at some point, say in rehearsal vd or in dvd extyras? Actors 2 modest & self-effacing? .........
We see her dance en pointe in the movie. That's enough. And yes she can be proud of that, you are right about that. But it doesn't matter anyway. Sarah Lane had her 15min of fame, the end of her stage career is nigh, while Portmans only trouble will be, how she can trump her last success.
And you are ignoring the fact, that Portman also danced prior to Black Swan. perhaps you should educate yourself a littl more about that, and about ballet in general.
@ent0r Portman's childhood classes was at amateur level, it's NOTHING. Many kids have ballet classes as a hobby, just like many kids do piano lessons for personal enjoynment. It is nothing compared to the professional training that future professional ballet dancers do. Not to mention that they do it continuously for years. As to Sarah Lane's stage career it's nowhere near the end. Your hatred of ballet and Sarah Lane is obvious. Watch some ballet school documentaries here.
I wouldn't call it hatred, just the usual disregard, that is shared by many others.
Sarah Lane is 26-27? How long does she got? 3-4 years? perhaps less, considering there is little demand for her? But she has set her name as the Black Swan dance double, so she will be remembered.
@ent0r Sorry, your posts in which you deliberately misenterpret what others say and constantly bash an artist like Sarah Lane and the whole art of ballet and make ridiculous claims about NPs dancing ability really show more than that. Also, ballerinas dance at least until 40. As to "little demand" - your disregard for the position of a soloist at ABT (hint: try to get a job in corps de ballet in this company...) just shows someone who values popularity over artistry.
I don't misinterpret them, I am showing how little sense most pof you people make. And I am not bashing ballet, I am simply saying that it's not more special than any other art form or sports. Portman danced those bourees, that's a fact, and the fact that you people won't acknowledge that elevates this accomplishment even more.
And whether ballet is much more artistic is subjective. I like many others simply don't like ballet that much. And that's ok, no matter what you think.
to @adballet - STILL film-studio Thought Police bang on about pointe work being easily acquired, ignoring Copeland's & all other dancers' prior training, natural gifts, incl. TURNOUT, essential 4 proper execution of basics, which transform the body & build strength required for ballet. Some NP fans should work as dancers, then as teachers & work with ballet physios. Then their opinion, on a par now with DA's about ballet, would be relevant. Instead, immature insults fly our way - curious, eh?
Ps to @adballet Correct. A prima ballerina's physique (after 8 yrs + training)cannot be achieved by dropping a load of weight in a yr.& arm-flapping aged 28. Every move NP did was as balletically incorrect/inadequate as it could be as it is only possible - after a yr, with no turnout etc - to be anything but an ENTHUSIASTIC AMATEUR. Adult amateurs can do all this in no time at all (mine have and do!) 'cos it is not classical ballet in BS except, as we know, when Lane/Prosa are cgi' in. lol
But it's still good enough to fool you and adballet into thinking, that Portman didn't dance en pointe. On the other hand you are both obviously not as savy about ballet as you think.
She's just a stupid jealous spoiled little cunt ¬¬ LOLL what does she expect?! Natalie turning in her Oscar and giving it to her?! Go kiss ass or somethin, you're a DANCER and will always be a dancer. Cunt.
What did she expect!? she's a double for god sake!! most of actors have doubles, why? because they're just acting! they can't do it all, they don't know everything, like if you expect only because someone is acting as a lawyer should know all about the law!! or like Catherine Zeta Jones in Chicago, does it means she was the best singer in the world??!?! hell NO!
what the hell! "all she did was the fouettes THE FOOT WORK and a pirouette????? if you watch the movie you will see THATS ALMOST EVERYTHING! and they try to FOOL people into thinking thats not alot, im a pro ballet dancer, and i know for a fact that doing all the (foot work) is actually a big deal. im NOT saying natalie didnt work her but off, it must have been REALLY hard, and shes a great actress,:) but nobody is giving sarah lane nearly enough credit,
@xsexyminxyx Whoever has put a pointe shoe on their feet and tried to go on pointe ONCE knows NP did NOT dance on pointe. The shoe is about 10% of the work, the rest are muscles that are basically capable of reversing gravity, so that the weight is UP, not on the poor little small bones and muscles of the tiny feet. With the muscle power NP has, maybe it would work in a different planet with a lesser gravity, maybe the Moon would do.
@adballet I'm not saying she danced en pointe, i'm a ballet dancer and i know how hard ballet is, let alone dancing en pointe. in every featurette i've seen, she is dancing in regular ballet slippers on demi pointe. they use sarah lanes pointe work and replace her face with NP's. That doesn't necessarily mean NP didn't dance now does it? it just means she hasn't danced the pointe work. besides, no one can learn to do fouettes after 6 months of training.
@adballet that's all i'm saying, that she danced. she didn't do a bad job considering, the training she was given was only meant to give her the appearence and body of a prima ballerina. it wasn't meant to give her the ability to dance like one.
@xsexyminxyx Well, that is exactly what I am saying. The appearance and the body of a ballerina is the ballerina itself. You cannot separate how a ballerina looks from the art. The looks in ballet is 50% of the art, the movement is the other 50%. NP is incapable of looking like a ballerina at any point, while she is standing or while she is "dancing". Once upon a time Hollywood had actresses who could hold their backs up. They may have lost their backs but Swan Queens still have to have them.
@adballet which is fair enough, i understand your point. i am a fan of NP but i can admit that dancing wise she was no swan, and i can understand why her double, sarah lane is so offended that the director said a prima ballerina can be made in 1 year. all i'm saying is that NP probably tried her best, her job was to act as a ballerina and she did the best with what was given to her - 1 year intensive training, a petite frame and fancy costumes.
@adballet So once again we must believe film/NP/DA fans who R all experts in classical ballet! Why else would they claim U R 'clueless about ballet, thinking it takes years to go en pointe' Once again the H'wood Thought Police know all about balett/pointe work so why don't they go advise Vaganova, Royal Ballet School & all other top schools around the world, whose girls actually do take years to do dance en pointe. Think how many yrs can B chopped off pro training with these ppl advising them!
This shows again how clueless you are about ballet, if you think that it takes years to go en pointe. The girls don't need years to learn how to dance en pointe. They simply arent't allowed to in young age because of lack of ossification.
@adballet Ppl unaware of pro ballet cannot seem 2 understand that 4 pointe work to be balletic & not a piss-take requires all you said plus TURNOUT, flexibility & very strongly developed arches, none of which NP has. One is born for ballet with natural turnout or not. Turnout cannot be acquired, like strength in a gym. Of course one can have an operation which was popular some time back with ignorant ballet wannabees. Result ? APPARENT turnout & NO strength in groin, just floppyness! lol
Just shows how little your expertise mean, considering, that Portman actually danced en pointe.
It' actually pretty clear that it's portman if you know what to look for. But it doesn't matter, since nothing comes out of this controversy, and Sarah lane is obviously trying to backpeddle, since she's got nothing.
I'm typing this on a Friday & would have to check my diary if anyone involved in any way with BS told me tomorrow was Saturday. The glory of cgi cannot totally disguise stiff, undeveloped, non-ballerina feet & torso. Why keep keep a dog and bark yourself? Would NP not have won Oscar without the OTT hype? That is a serious question btw. Ballet technique & physiques are my business, always have been so I can believe my eyes, not swallow what H'wood's says. Still a film fan tho' .
She would have won the oscar. All the people who are egible to vote who gets an oscar, are actor themselfes, and are aware, that doubles are tricks of the trade. Anyone who would ahve wanted to check whther Portman had a dance double could have looked it up on the internet.
The fact, that you dismiss the possibility that Portman danced the bourees, only shows what a deluded person you are, on par with "birthers" or people who don't believe we were on the moon, or who did 9/11.
Copleand was lucky 2B be physically endowed for ballet & even luckier 2 B encouraged to go for it. Her top-class training at a young age allied to her natural ability made pointe work relatively 'easy'! There are quite a few gifted young ppl like her. NPis not one of them. Great weight-loss, absolutely no turnout, stiff, inflexible torso & sickle, undeveloped amateur feet from an actor aged almost 30 means the only way possible to perform en pointe is with cgi.
@MrKLT1945 P.s All credit to camera crew, lighting, editing, cgi etc because only on film can these effects be realised and I sometimes think we take them TOO much for granted. Without them of course each and every film actor's performance would be, for many of them, piss-poor. Didn't Dirk Bogarde and Jane Fonda have their own lighting man who flattered them enormously with lighting?
Sure, misty Copland was very talented, but that still dosn't change the fact that Portman danced en pointe. If you are not able to see whether it was CGI or not, then it's simply shows, that your judgment isn't reliable.
Kurt Froman.connfirmed long before any controversy, that she danced en pointe, and if you think that he and Aranofsky lied with nothing to back it up .... well I guess that's why you support Sarah lane, since she's as dumwitted.
YOU pointed out, that she did the fouetts to the left and said "what she does in that movie is not her best at all", which as I pointed out, is not true. She did them to the right which is her best .... if you would call it that way.
And again, why didn't she do the fouettes to the left, if she were able to do so? Why did they have to flip the hot? And unlike Sarah Lane, Portman is not as trained as her, but that's the thing. For some reason you people think she should be which is stupid.
@ent0r I can't see the second video you are talking about. I have seen Lane many times in class and on stage, she can do what I saw to either side. And Portman can't do it on neither side.
And noone claimed that Portman did the fouettes, so what's your point?
And it seems you are as inept as Sarah Lane, who claimed that Portman never mentioned her, when it comes to using the internet. or you are trying to stay ignorant since accepting that there was "fooling" around to make Sarah Lane look better than she actually is.
Just go to some video where the Black Swan fouettes are shown and pay attention to the costume. There are dozens here.
@ent0r Tone down again you language. Sure she does the bourres and that's why you can only see her from the back. Before the suicide I don't see the feet and she is running not doing bourres. And FYI, the professional training is 10 years. You start at 7 and at 11 yo go on pointe, and if you are talented at 17 you are ready. And it doesn't matter to which side she did. It is Lane. If they thought doesn't look good enough they could have hired somebody else. I don't think so.
First of all you awere the one who got nasty first.
2nd it still doesn't change the fat, that it's Portman both times en pointe.
And as I said you have no clue about ballet.
The reason why children are not allowed to go en pointe sooner is because of ossification to avoid deformities since their bones are not as sturdy. Misty Copland learned to dance en pointe within 3 months when she was 14.
And you were the one who stressed that it wasn't her good side ... which was WRONG .. again.
@ent0rMy pointe is that she did NO pointe at all. She doesn't even wear pointe shoes. I cannot see any insurance company insuring NP with such a blatant undertraining. Soi the insurance guy/girl got there and said: "If she has an accident wearing those hard things, it doesn't matter what she is doing, we are OFF the hook.
She doesn't wear pointe shoes all the time, but she did those bourees.
You are simply WRONG, and it's ironic, that people who think that some dancer didin't enough credit, are trying to rob someone who trained for a year, just to look credible and to do a few things, of her credit.
But it's pretty clear that you are either ignorant or stupid and have no clue about ballet at all.
I don't think she should be trained at all as well trained as Lane, I just think she should stop saying she can do with 1.5 years of training what all top world class prima ballerinas take 10 years plus to maybe achieve it.
@ent0r Do you see her face in the bourres at the beginning? And do you see her feet at the end? NO. So, once you are so smart please enlighten me why she is not wearing pointe shoes in the BS entrance.
Again, ALL the turns are to the left. The pique manege is also to the left. But assuming, for the sake of argument, they flipped I can see only one reason. Those ridiculous wings were in the way and throwing her off. No professional dancer is required to do double fouettes to the left.
Since it's an uninterrupted shot wher she simply turns away, and since there is that wide shot where she does bourees again, which has been confirmed by Aranofksy and Kurt Froman.
And she didn't wear pointe shoes because the choreography in the Black swan entrance didn't demand it.
And what wings are you talking about moron? Do you realise that those are CGIed onto her? Are you stupid or just retarded?
@ent0r If your arguments were so goo you wouldn't need to call me a moron. The turning wings after they were grown seemed to me they are an actual piece of prop. While they were growing no. But, hahaha, you made my day. Since when pointe shoes became optional for Swan Lake?
Sure .... they made her grow feathers. There's a video that shows how the wings sprouts, so how about you go and inform yrouself first.
And you perhaps did not realise it, but this movie isn't about swan lake, and the ballet is just a backdrop. They changed a lot beginning from music, to choreography and a lot of other things that don#t fit into the realworld, for dramatic reasons.
It's a long continous shot where she makes her fouettes until she stops and has large wings. So at which point could they have stuckthem onto her? And it only proves how bad your eyesight is, if you think they were props or real in any way.
You know, what would be really nice? If you could grow a brain for common sense.
@adballet Have U noticed that anyone who spent a lifetime in ballet, trains girls to prof. standard & works with ballet physios & surgons who specialise in dancers problems, still knows nothing? Only non-deluded fan (studio employee wih vested interest?) sees NP'S bad amateur feet, legs, arms,torso & believes she can do pointe work 'cos that's what was said. Ergo 'tis true! But they do not KNOW ballet. Flats 4
dramatic reasons? Utter crap, ain't it? End of 'debate with @ent0r from me too!
@MrKLT1945 Yeah, I have no idea why NP fans would want her do dance on pointe and spend a lifetime with screws in her ankles. And, I understood, Copeland did gymnastics before, so she wasn't exactly couch potato. And now, that's all we needed, for poor super endowed Copeland's body to be compared to short legged/armed NP. She finished her training a looooong time ago and she is not even 28 yet.
Noone wanted to see her dance en pointe, we wanted a movie with a decent script and acting, which we got.
And Portman wasn't a coach potato either, but it hardly matters considering how clueless you are about ballet, thinking, that it takes years to go en pointe.
P.s When I trained a million yrs ago we were taught to turn to left and right in ALL the forms of spins, & had to practise the ''weaker' side 4 times as often as the preferred side. Single fouette rond de jambe to the weaker side (with the very occasional double!) became easy, multiples spins in fouettes to the preferred side VERY easy. All pro (and some amateurs) dancers I know can do any turn both sides, just MUCH better one side than the other. Not rocket science, just top-class training.
Notice, folks, how a simple typo cannot be excused unless the post is in praise of BS/NP - smacks of desperation. Raising legitimate query about displaying ballet knowledge on other ballet sites is also forbidden. In my case hastily-written, unchecked post still received bile. Is someone here working for the studio? What's wrong with an invitation to post on other ballet sites? Hell, we know why the offer is declined, don't we? NP's amateur ballet should have been TOTALLY cgi'd or cut out.
Do you lack reading comprehension? "Adballet" is the one who is furious about a simple typo. Where the hell do you read that anyone else attacked typos because they support Portman?
Anyways, IF Sarah Lane is so good, why did they bother to flip the shots?
@ent0r Sarah Lane is a beautiful dancer and if Hollywood flips things around, could you please enlighten us on how it makes Lane's dancing bad? Again Lane is a virtuoso technician and beautifully trained. There is nothing there that Lane could not do to both sides, specially in a movie. On the other hand, Portman's dancing looks bad on any angle.
To RLviddy and ImaginedWriter - Glad to see the Thought Police haven't got you! As you can see below, anyone who knows & cares about ballet, has a brain & does NOT post NP boot-licking stuff is fair game for NP fanatics. These fanatics (studio employees some of them?) who now now ALL about ballet - courtesy of the aptly-abbreviated film BS - somehow never display their brilliant ballet expertise & knowledge on any pure ballet sites!
To be a great dancer takes years of work, I'm pretty sure the double did most of the worked for which Portman is taking credit.
It's an insult to think that some hollywood type can in a few months match people who have spent most of their lives perfecting their bodies to this art.
P.s Nothing wrong with anyone augmenting their salary in any profession. Some of us old ex-dancers are wondering why we do not read any inciteful, relevant comment from you on any of the many ballet vds on YT, comments that would display your classical ballet expertise. There are plenty available - Vaganova, RB, Paris Opera & Shanghai students; old vds of past greats; present greats; novices asking for advice. Go for it!
P.s Forgot to mention SL has not, to the best of my knowledge, been raised to Prima Ballerina status (one more level after that - Prima Ballerina Assoluta, and not many of THEM around!) ABT. Someone please advise if she in fact is one.
@ent0r Soloist is a cut above corps (as everyone all over the world in pro. ballet knows) & Principal is above soloist & Prima B. is almost top of the heap - gets trumped by a Pr. B. Assoluta. 'Just a soloist' is so derogatory as to beggar belief and indicates you are either an old-fashioned Prima Ballerina who NEVER spoke to the lower orders, or you have never danced in a professional company. Why should it be omitted from a CV? Do film stars omit some films from their list of 'achievements'?
Well it is. She isn't principal, and a solist who never danced a lead role.
She's basically a corps dancer with a better pay grade. But tell me, why is a appearance that amounts to about 3min worth at best, that has been additionly altered to make her fouettes look better of worth in the ballet world, where only live perfomances matter?
It's because even those 3min are as good, if not better than anything else she ever did.
@ent0r First, you are wrong. Lane has danced a leading role, and I have seen her personally in Theme and Variations. And she is not basically any corp dancer. She is a soloist with the biggest company in the US. Now, for your info, what she does in that movie is not her best at all. As a matter of fact she is dancing and turning to the left which is NOT her best side. Lane is right handed, and she is dancing to the left because of Portman.
And she didn't do the fouettes to the left. She did thm to the right, and then the shots were flipped to make it look like she did them to the left. Didn't know that? Yeah figures that Sarah lane wouldn't bother to tell something like that.
So basically you are saying she danced badly on her GOOD side.
@ent0r First get your spelling right, it is not ATB it is ABT. And why would they do that flip to the left? Nobody would do that. And it is not only the fouettes, every single turn is to the left. They also flipped the manege? And Lane did not dance badly to any side. She a virtuoso technician that can basically do anything. She can easily do 4 pirouttes to the right , specially in a movie that you have MANY MANY MANY chances to do your stuff.
They probably did it, because fouettes to the left are considered harder in the ballet world. It's like the people who shoot with therir left foot in soccer.
And YOU pointed and claimed out, that she did her fouettes to the left instead to the right as she would do normally. And for the obvious reason mentioned above.
That's the reason and not portman.
So stop being a hypocrite. On the other hand perhaps you are just some moron.
@ent0r Turning to the left is easier to some people, but I know for a fact that Lane is not a left turner. And FYI, ballet dancers are trained to both sides, but there is always a best side and usually that is the one that is staged, if it is a solo. Now, if you have an argument, spell it out and keep your mouth clean. So that you don't sound so uneducated next time, ABT stands for American Ballet Theatre.
Yes for some people, turning to the left is easier. same for shooting a ball with the left foot. Nonetheless both things are considered to be rare in their professions. And I have to say again, that YOU pointed out, that she did the fouettes to the left , which is simply not true.
@ent0r She did ALL turns to the left, not only the fouettes. And, in the case of Lane, people don't need to be doing patch work with her dancing. She can do it to any side, but I believe if she was doing to the right she could finish the fouettes with a quadruple. And I can see why you like Portman so much, she runs in in BS running like a soccer player after the ball. It may look good on Ronaldinho but it doesn't look good for Swan Queen.
The black swan coda was the only continious, uninterrupted shot of importance. Everything else was pretty much edited to a point where almost anyone could have done it.
And IF she could do it to any side, why did they bother to flip the shot?
I can see why you side with Sarah lane, seeing as you are some ignorant twat, just like her.
But hey, unlike you, she finally got some sense and stopped calling people she should be grateful to, LIARS.
@ent0r I am sure you could have done it, and that is what the problem is. Ignorance reads "anyone can do it." And, Oh, yes, now people should be saying thank you to thieves. And, as I said, keep you mouth clean. BTW, anyone could have tried to close their mouth during the shooting also unless they were trying to catch some flies on the way to the ball.
We can make people look doing impossible acrobatics, if there's enought money to spend around, so yes anyone.
Noone stealed anthing from Sarah Lane. She is mentioned twice in the movie credits, she was mentioned multiple times before theatrical release of Black Swan in interviews, Portman herself mentioned her a few times, she is on the DVD, she got paid handsomely and now even has her 15min fame in the tabloids.
Oh yeah, also when making a movie. They use many effects angles etc. She has no idea on the math. Because she doesn't understand movie making either. They cover their bases. Shoot more than the need, so there is NO way she can "do the math" accurately. I wish she never spoke out, because again, I knew she was the double, thought she did great, but her attitude sucks. bitch. You got paid to do a "stunt" no matter. Stunts & "models" in movies are very important, but that's all the are in a MOVIE.
iamlost2 1 week ago
What a prima bitch assoluta. I knew Natalie didn't do most of the dance moves, because even the closeups of her were awkard looking, not fluid as a fully trained ballerina, but like many already said, this was a movie, and Portman was the star. She did the acting, plus all the CGI effects were done by the CGI crew. They get a small mention. But, do we think she actually grew feathers? lol, hell no. I didn't like the movie anyway. Not my "type" but, the dance double had nothing to do with it
iamlost2 1 week ago
I'm just gonna remind Ms. Lane about her words BEFORE the Oscar:
In December 2010, Lane gave an interview to Kina Poon of Dance Magazine in which she answers the question "and how does it feel to be part of a performance that some critics are giving Natalie Portman rave reviews for?" by saying that "I'm not really looking for any sort of recognition. The process was a huge learning experience and I got everything I wanted out of it. But Portman deserves the recognition. She worked really hard."
akissy 1 week ago
@akissy Also, Portman said in a November 2010 interview with WBUR that "there's a wonderful dancer, Sarah Lane, who did the more complicated pointe work. But I did the stuff THAT WAS POSSIBLE TO LEARN IN A YEAR." This might've been two years ago, but it shouldn't've happened. She knew she was a DOUBLE, and that she had make the audience BELIEVE something. Portman never said she was a professional dancer after 1 1/2 years, she said she did all that was possible learning in that time!
akissy 1 week ago
i dont care ! haha. the acting was great and the dancing was great ! she deserved the oscar & the dancer deserves some recognition just for being a great dancer not the fact that she was in the movie or not.
KAMiiRocKMUSiCluvr 2 weeks ago
Portman did ballet long before this. The 8 months was just training getting ready for the film. She already knew the dance forms. She was just warming up. 80% of the dance shots are natalie. The director did the math and said so. She has talent and she is a great actress. Do research before you sit on your computer and judge.
SexyTamara1985 3 weeks ago
@SexyTamara1985 she did ballet up until she was 13 or 14 - the exact same amount of time i spent doing ballet, and trust me, once you stop you might as well have never even trained at all. you do not simply pick up where you left off when you start again.
anditspaganpoetry 1 week ago
@anditspaganpoetry 100% Correct! Add to that full-time prof. ballet training from the age of 10/11 is another world compared to recreational AMATEUR dancing which is what many young girls do for a while, NP included. Only deluded/arrogant/ignorant ppl believe it possible to reach Lane's standard after a year and in one's s late 20'!!. Some film fans get upset when actors are derided, but are happy to trash dancers. Why?
MrKLT1945 1 week ago
He didn't say "85% of the dancing was done by Natalie", he said "85% of that movie was Natalie". That is accurate. The movie happens to be about a ballet dancer, but it is still a movie and the acting takes significantly more place than the dancing. So, all right, Portman sucks as ballerina. Who cares? She is a good actress. Nobody gave her an award to the best prima ballerina of the year, they gave her an Oscar for her acting.
flabarbieri 3 weeks ago
would sarah be as upset if natalie had not won the oscar? I´m not sure about that. and for someone who always claims she does not want any credits, she is complaining a lot about not getting any. the film was not just about dancing. actors often get doubles. I don´t see e.g. daniel craigs double complaining about james bond shots. I mean, if you are cast as a double, what do you expect? I´m sorry if sarah is upset but even if she danced a lot, natalie did a great job too.
LaraBallerina 1 month ago
stupid issue. c'mon, just bcoz Portman won an Oscar and now you're complaining about not enough credits for your work?! i mean in the first place, and i'm sure, it's not only the dance scene where the Oscar scrutinize for her to receive an award and second, i think it's part on the contract about the doubling blah blah blah.. you're not an actress honey!
ledhicks 1 month ago
of course "85% of the film was natalie" because the camera was following her freaking head and face around the entire film. any 'dancing' that natalie portman did was atrocious. Sarah has a right to be annoyed, because the audience is mislead into thinking that natalie portman achieved professional level ballet dancing in under a year. it's NOT possible. all the footwork, full body shots and turns that portman so wrongly got the credit for was at the sacrifice of Lane and her lifetime of work.
NinjaTree6 1 month ago
@NinjaTree6 That is exactly the point. Black Swan was not the production of the Swan Lake ballet, it was a movie. Therefore, 85% of the film was the leading actress, who was chosen because of her acting, not her dancing. Sarah Lane, who is not the best dancer that I have seen and by far, certainly dances a million times better than Natalie Portman, who is an actress and certainly acts a million times better than Sarah Lane or any other really good ballerina.
flabarbieri 3 weeks ago
Natalie Portman FTW
cherryceejay 1 month ago
Natalie did ballet before this movie she just didn't get intense with it until it started.
mlballerina 1 month ago 2
I'm sorry, but what other stunt double in any movie has ever complained about not getting enough credit? You're a stunt double, not an actor. You should be honored. Sarah read the contract, she knew she wasn't going to get much recognition anyway. And why the hell is it Natalies job to thank her at the awards? Who does that? Might as well thank the cameraman too while you're at it.
vintagebabe101 1 month ago
@vintagebabe101 she doesn't care about attention, or credit! she's representing real professional ballerinas world wide, and she doesn't want them to be downgraded by the belief that someone can learn those skills in under a year. it's just not possible.
NinjaTree6 1 month ago
Portman is full of shit. plain and simple. portman trained for a grand total of 8 months. anyone who thinks you can learn to dance on pointe in that small amount of time hasnt a clue of what ballet requires. it takes the first year just build the muscle and strength in the ankles and feet. then after year one you can start turns and jumps. natalie was most def. doubled. she's a spoiled little snot who thinks she can do everything. sorry hon.
ILoveFriedFetus 1 month ago 2
She studied DAMN HARD to become a ballet dancer ¬¬ She trained to become a prima. That's a really bad attitude :/
FinalFantasyAerith 1 month ago
Bullshit, that girl didn't act the lesbian scene or the phsyco scene
Gisugar 1 month ago 2
I don't think she is trying to drag out her "fame" I think she just wants people to respect it and understand that it takes years to get to that level of dance and it was insulting for them to say that Natalie had done all of that dancing after just a year of training.
SoItsSophieXx 1 month ago 4
@SoItsSophieXx I completely agree with you.
BellaNessieCullen 1 month ago
Alright everyone, let's give this argument a rest.
Manigran 2 months ago
THey said that they use editing to make a face creation on Sarah's face
fansomekoem123456789 3 months ago
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STFU stupid cunt! You are nothing but a no talent nobody gossping bitch. It is a shame that in the age of intelligence (supposedly) someone like you actually is considered a reputable professional b/c you are not!! You are nothing but a hatefilled little cunt who does not but spread gossip and lies just like you did in high school you jealous nobody cunt.
hcurrie7 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
STFU stupid cunt! You are nothing but a no talent nobody gossping bitch. It is a shame that in the age of intelligence (supposedly) someone like you actually is considered a reputable professional b/c you are not!! You are nothing but a hatefilled little cunt who does not but spread gossip and lies just like you did in high school you jealous nobody cunt.
hcurrie7 5 months ago
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STFU stupid cunt! You are nothing but a no talent nobody gossping bitch. It is a shame that in the age of intelligence (supposedly) someone like you actually is considered a reputable professional b/c you are not!! You are nothing but a hatefilled little cunt who does not but spread gossip and lies just like you did in high school you jealous nobody cunt.
hcurrie7 5 months ago
@hcurrie7 In this "age of intelligence" it's a shame you couldn't phrase your criticism more eloquently.
orangevbnin 4 months ago
Ask mary Helen Bowers Bitch. She trained her and I see no reason for her to lie. She talked about how she would train these rediciously long hours. Natalie Portman is a one of a kind person who is above average intelligence and integrity. So why would she lie?
hcurrie7 5 months ago
I suspect folks that when the critics and fellow actors were voting for Portman for *ACTING* awards it was her *ACTING* they had in mind as opposed to any supposed dancing she supposedly did not do.
lukebccb 5 months ago
The studio should have hired a dancer used to doing stunt work for movies. No one is doubting SL did the best part of the dancing but I think she wanted to be co-starring with Natalie which of course was not part of the deal. I saw the movie to see NP's acting and I never expected her to be a "real" ballerina. Hollywood has had always used great stunt doubles for action movies and I don't see any of them griping like SL did.
mrsotter19 5 months ago
The audience wasn't intended for ballet professionals. It was for the general public. And from an outsider's point of view, Natalie Portman was really amazing and I didn't really notice any difference. Of course, those who practice ballet can probably spit out a ton of criticism but as I've said, the Black Swan wasn't entirely intended just for ballet professionals
stoprainlty 5 months ago
SL is happy dancing at the bst pro company in the West - American Ballet Theatre - and is highly regarded. Somehow I doubt many 'ballet' films will get made in the foreseeable future. Furthermore classical ballet training takes such little time in LaLa Land that the next flavour of the month film star won't need a 'stunt' double, surely!
MrKLT1945 5 months ago
I wanna see Sarah Lane get a job after all this lol
polarjeez 5 months ago 4
Sometimes, "ghostwriters" need a little limelight too.
Melchizedek360 5 months ago
Right about hype. Nothing wrong with promoting anything, but their blatant, desperate lying by omission coupled with trying to keep SL quiet beggars belief. Had NP actually tried to 'demonstrate' her alleged ballet skills(!) in any of her many interviews her fans would have had to believe their eyes - i.e. she could not, never could, do anything prof. ballerinas do. But no, her deluded fans know all about ballet now thanks to H'wood's shenanigans. Only takes a yr to become a ballerina, right?
MrKLT1945 6 months ago 2
Why should anyone who gets pissed on & cheated by film studios then go away without a murmur? No way SL (soloist with one of the few top companies on the planet) was TOLD she would be:- Stunt double, Hand double, simply she would be credited. Her ignorance of H'wood's lack of good grace was her undoing. Moral of this tale - never trust ppl in films, they R snakeoil salesmen with all the ethics of a dead skunk. What a god-awful film it would have been with NP doing ALL the ballet.
MrKLT1945 6 months ago
I sort of get why Sarah Lane is so sore. She was the real ballerina, the real star... the real "Nina" and she didn't get an iota of the credit she deserved. That's why now she's fighting to the death for it. She's fighting her way into the limelight. She really wants some noriety. She's willing to go "Black Swan" for it.
--For Both Swans "Natalie" and "Sarah," Dane Youssef
SURFUR 6 months ago
And Christ, Natalie herself walked home with the Oscar, the Golden Globe, every Critic's Choice Award ever there was... to name just a few. But... keep in mind, everyone. They were all for acting, not dancing. Ms. Lane herself should keep that in mind.
Come to think of it, so should a lot of the angry commenters on this page.
--Love for "The Swans," Dane Youssef
SURFUR 6 months ago
I acutally kinda understand sarah, she doesn't want fame all she wants is a litlle credit. Afcorse nathalie gave a great acting preformance but people are also giving her credit for the dancing she didn't do. How would you feel if someone else would take credit for something that you did?
gohanchan60 6 months ago
Lmfao, Sarah just stop. You were hired to be in a movie, you got credited as a double.. which is exactly what you were, and you were paid to do your job. People didn't go to see this movie for the fucking ballet, they went to see Natalie Portman act the hell out of the film.
SelenaMakesVideos101 6 months ago
Lol Hand Model...? Wtf?!
starlight1215 6 months ago
I just noticed the four swan music in the background lol i just did that variation last night
rosalierox247 6 months ago 18
Right again. Film fan(atics) who revere stars and in this case know nothing of ballet are in possession of Received Wisdom when it comes to ballet. So anyone who challenges them/lets the cat out of the bag is a big embarrassment and must be shot down in flames by all means possible. Fortunately some of us still have eyes to see, and experience to back-up our opinions. Can't fool all of the ppl all of the time, try as they might.
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
Just seen the awesome Guillem in London in 'moder'n works requiring her still-perfect ballet technique, aged 46. Many ballet dancesr go on past their 40's even if they no longer command top roles. They are so wondrously trained, are more informed on nutrition, have great ballet physios and take such care of their bodies, that's why they last a lot longer than in my day. BTW he who shouts'Fact' the loudest must be right on ballet matters in BS. Got to admire the devotion to duty, tho'.
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
Those are exceptions. there are boxers who have fights in their forties. But that doesn't mean it's a regular thing.
Only few ballet dancers dance at that age reguarly, if any at all.
You can believe whatever you want, it doesn't matter since the ballet wasn't what made the movie good.
ent0r 7 months ago
Really, who cares? The dancing in the movie was sublime, and body doubles in dance movies rarely get more than a nod in the credits anyway. Sarah Lane was listed twice in the credits, and was paid well for her work. Lane is just trying to drag out her 15 minutes.
Lirit331 7 months ago 69
@Lirit331 are you serious? nat had people workshipping her for her 'breathtaking dancing' and sarah only got her name on credit. two times. Wow, how nice. of course she doesnt like that natalie got all the credit and she got nearly none. natalie didnt even thank her in her oscar speech!The movie's editor said that of the 35 body shot natalie did 12 of them. Sarah is a fantastic ballerina and you cant blame her for wanting the credit she deserved. Watch her ABC interview, shes not a famewhore.
WeedandShit1 7 months ago
@Lirit331 It's not that that's Lane's problem, it's that the studio created a lot of hype around Portman's dancing as part of the Oscar campaign and a lot of people believed that it was Portman doing most of the dancing. It's not that she didn't get credited it's just that she saw it as devaluing ballet because people believed you could get to the standard that Nina displays in the film easily when in reality it takes years.
ParanoidAndroidDA 6 months ago
@Lirit331 no she doesn't! She just thinks it's insulting that everybody thinks u can become a ballerina in one year! People just should have more respect for that kind of art. I'm glad she stands up for this!
allaballababy 4 months ago 13
@Lirit331
It has nothing to do with the credits (or lack of them).
It has to do with people LYING.
Portman and her handlers first insinuated and implied and then just outright LIED about Portman's dancing in the film to help swing her the oscar.
If you make a youtube video anonymously you probably won't mind people copying it and sharing it .... but what if someone claimed it as their own work to help them win a film makers award?
It's about DISHONESTY, not dance :)
watch?v=drS0XgRdlQc
theawecabinet 4 months ago 9
@theawecabinet Right! And for those wondering why anyone would support NP and the rest of them in their lies - it's called money, plus the hope of staying in with the H'wood crowd. Any 'teacher' who can only get a so-called talented pupil to the pathetic standard(!) reached by NP should be ashamed of herself. But no-one can turn a sow's ear into a silk purse - a real teacher would havetold the truth - NP physically not right for ballet, so why bother? That guy Oscar has a lot to answer for...
MrKLT1945 3 months ago
@MrKLT1945
NP's teacher (I forget her name) got a lot of publicity for her studio/ class. And who can blame her?
This is what is so depressing. The deceitful, insincere and money & status obsessed Hollywood industry encourages all who get caught up in it to lower their standards & ethics too.
In the end it is the public driving this race to inauthenticity by mindlessly buying into whatever's put in front of their faces.
The money at the root of all evil starts life in OUR wallets.
theawecabinet 3 months ago
@Lirit331 If you watch the ABC News interview with Lane, she made it very clear that she's not after fame. She's upset because the publicists for Black Swan tried to convince the world that someone can become a professional ballerina with merely two years of training (how long Natalie Portman trained) while anyone who knows anything about ballet knows it takes far longer (Lane had 22 years when she filmed). As she said, it's degrading to the craft to insinuate someone can master it so quickly
broadwaybaby1594 4 months ago 14
@broadwaybaby1594
natlie trained when she was younger, she just refreshed her memory and body for the movie
swinche95 4 months ago
@swinche95 NP did what millions of little girls do - i.e. very low-level AMATEUR classes for a short while, that's all - a zillion miles from professional full-time training young girls with the right physique and talent have at the Royal Ballet school, Vaganova etc for approx. 8 YEARS. NP could not 'refresh her memory/body' unless she had been a professional ballerina! She had/has NO physical aptitude for ballet & it shows in BS. geting skinny does not turn her or anyone into a ballet dancer.
MrKLT1945 3 months ago 6
@Lirit331 The bird who danced for Jennifer Beals in Flashdance did the same thing. Liek you said, who the hell cares.
zapkvr 2 months ago
@Lirit331 WELL SAID
cherryceejay 1 month ago
@Lirit331 WRONG. Sarah Lane is representing REAL ballet dancers all over the country. she doesn't want them to suffer a disservice by the belief that natalie portman was able to learn and execute all that dancing in under a year. that's just not possible! for the director to say that natalie portman REALLY did all the full body shots is complete bullshit, and trivializes the years of blood, sweat and tears (literally) that goes into achieving that level of skill.
NinjaTree6 1 month ago
@NinjaTree6 Oh please. If that were true, as a REAL ballet dancer, Sarah Lane would never have willingly taken the job as a body double for Natalie Portman in this movie. The entire point of a dancer working as a body double is to MAKE THE AUDIENCE BELIEVE THAT THE CHARACTER IS JUST THAT GOOD! No one really cares about who danced what, they care about believability on the screen. If the audience can believe ONE PERSON did all acting and dancing, then the body double did their job.
Lirit331 1 month ago
@Lirit331 right but the director deliberately tried to hide that a double was used at all. why would they do that if it were really JUST about the ACTING, and not the dancing? if it was "just the double doing her job" why try to hide it?
ballerinas work their entire lives to master just one movement. i would be equally pissed if i were a double for someone that i KNOW could not do ballet, and then the world believe she mastered those things after only a year- i'd put up a pretty big stink too.
NinjaTree6 1 month ago 3
@Lirit331 and if they wanted the audience to believe that natalie portman really was capable of doing ALL the dancing- they failed. right away i could spot natalies unrefined flailing of her arms vs. the professional training of Lane.
NinjaTree6 1 month ago
@Lirit331 if you're a dancer who's worked you're whole life to get your body and dancing to the level required of a professional and that is downplayed by saying someone who studied for a year as an adult looks just the same, you care...and it was a great movie, but the dancing was not sublime
balletonly07 16 hours ago
@balletonly07 Let's not make assumptions, shall we? I'd be more than happy to provide you with my dance resume, including names of my ballet teachers from back in my pre-injury days when I studied at the Miami Conservatory, SAB, MCB, SFB, and CPYB on a pre-professional level, but that seems trite.
My initial point still stands - she knew what she signed up for, and then threw a hissy fit when she got it. Which is lame. The end.
Lirit331 11 hours ago
natile portman is such a bad person for lying. the fact the she degrated dancing is horrible and she should get her Oscar taken away for that.
fairycloud1 7 months ago
You can make anything look a certain way. Digital filmmaking has really changed movies a lot. Unfortunately, it's creating situations like this. But you don't always need technology to make something look the way you want everyone to believe it looks. Careful, controlled PR can do that, too. That's what this is about--the PR people getting a little too caught up in the smoke and mirrors so that awards could be won. Sarah has every right to speak out. Others wronged should, too.
RLviddy 7 months ago
@RLviddy Quite right. Add to that the willingness (in this case on the part of fans/studio employees whose only knowledge of ballet comes from DA etc) to swallow the hype and it all adds up to silly posts from these ppl who cannot participate in other, real ballet vds on YT due to total ignorance of ballet technique. Nor can they SEE. the fluidity, physique & strength needed for even 'simple' elegant pointe work. H'wood - the land of the blind where the one-eyed man is king......
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945 Very blind indeed. Talking about doubles, weight loss, how dance 'should be' etc. doesn't really apply to this situation. It's more about realizing how blinded DA et. al. are by prestige, and how that compromises them as people and artists and affects other people. Sarah Lane, who lives and loves her art, is not in that group. But someone like Benjamin Millepied, who casts out an unnerving energy and uses people and things as a means to an end, is very much such a person.
RLviddy 7 months ago
@RLviddy Ah yes, Monsieur Millepied, who as a young member of NYCB went with them when they 'took Balanchine' back to his (GB's) native Russia. All great dancers past & present who trained so long & so hard (as he had to, no one-year quick fix for him!) have to thank him et al for the insulting H-wood rubbish. He should fit in very nicely. What happens to him and his reputation in ballet when he gets dumped, as he will. Will his ego survive the loss of red carpets & fawning sycophants?
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
Well that hollywood rubbish is far more popular than anything that ballet produced EVER.
What will happen with Sarah Lane once she retires, which will be in a few years? All she will ever be, is the dance double in Black Swan. She didn't do anything that merits any attention except for being the skank, that raised that fuzz.
She even mentined it on her ABT profile, since it is the most noteworthy achievement in her life.
ent0r 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945 Well, he chose as he chose. He'll face the consequences at some point. Sarah Lane will be fine, because she seems to know who she is. She sees a bigger picture. As for Natalie, an Oscar seems more about anticipation than achievement. It's kind of like Christmas. Once it's over, people are all at once done with it and moving on to the next holiday that takes place a week later.
RLviddy 7 months ago
@RLviddy Yes, SL certainly does know who she is & all dancers & sportsmen are aware they will have a relatively short working life but that goes with the territory! At least character roles, technical theatre work, teaching & other work available after retirement, which doesn't mean death, just a different path. It would appear that actors can put what they like on their cv but a non-film star can't! Sothe vindictiveness, ignorance & silly baby-like insults still abound! lol
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@RLviddy
Even if so, her christmas was and is bigger than anything Sarah Lane could ever hope for.
What did Sarah Lane get? Ah she knows who she is, which is an attentionseeker whose career will soon end, and whose fame has already waned.
Fine for her.
ent0r 7 months ago
@ent0r We do live in a weird world, in which hype is rewarded more often than actual skill.
RLviddy 7 months ago
@RLviddy Weird indeed. Loving one's profession & not being part of mainstream 'culture' is somehow to be denigrated. As said before, the 'Eat horse-shit -10, million flies can't be wrong' mentality flourishes, like weeds. Money & fame is all that matters, right?! Dancers, like all sports ppl, do what they do 'cos they love it & it takes HARD WORK & TALENT. We've had a bout of famous actresses bitching about lack of suitable parts as they get older & lose their 'appeal', which says a lot.
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945 That's kind of a different issue and it's not something that can really be generalized. It's not the actresses' fault that roles aren't written outside a narrow margin. Also, you can be skilled at something and still not get work, for whatever reason. Most actors are unemployed at any given time. Back to SL, well, when you talk openly about things, you risk censure. She stood up for herself. Hollywood hates that. Especially from a girl.
RLviddy 7 months ago
@RLviddy ..... and according to ent0r, who distorts posts from ex-dancers & teachers for obvious reasons, prof. corps members 'don't do anything'! Extraordinary! Fancy training full-time in pro school for 8 years to do nothing in the Mariinski (Kirov) for example. Off to watch them do nothing in Swan lake in London soon. All that hype but NO proof of pointe work in training/rehearsing from NP, which would have been great publicity - alas, it doesn't exist. Smoke & mirrors rules. lol
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
What kind of proof do you demand? You do realise that any non live performance would simply provoke you to claim that it's CGI again. IF there was any CGI involoved while Portman did the pointe work, then why wasn't it shown in the featurette?
There is no need for some training/rehearsing video since the performance in the movie speaks for itself. It's so good, that it even fools people like you. On the other hand, it might mean that you are simply not that savy about ballet.
ent0r 7 months ago
Apparently we must 'know what to look for' 2 see NP en pointe! Some brilliant lighting would have made it it OBVIOUS who was en pointe. My query about why NO evidence of NP's pointe work in progress/rehearsal & so on STILL unanswered - that says it all. NP's poor amateur (with no technique on show), recreational stuff availbale to see on YT & is no evidence of dance ability - rather the opposite hence a very wise move to film acting. Happy to discuss ballet technique tips with anyone
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
The proof is on screen. No matter how good the CGI is, if you know what to look for, you can spot it easily. The fact, that you think that the FEET were CGIed onto her legs, says more a lot your unwillingness to accept facts and your lack of common sense.
ent0r 7 months ago
Her 5% or 10 % participation on the movie she agreed to do this part without tending to be famous or get any credit...NOW SHE IS YELLING EVERYONE OVER STEP NATALIE....GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE Sarah!
nakatsu2008 7 months ago
@ad ballet........... So we have a scenario where an actor, hidden in VERY crafty lighting allegedly dances elegantly & fluidly en pointe but suddenly becomes physically incapable of walking in pointe shoes (which also needs turnout to avoid falling over) so wears satin flats on the end of totally turned-in stumpy legs for the stiff, ungainly but so-important BS entrance. How many years will pass before the Flashdance effect wears off & we get a little honesty from the good ppl in La La Land?
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
to @adballet - Forgot 2 say we know there is a whole lot more 2 pointe work than ossification - like strong BASIC technique, powerful intrinsic muscles, strength in turnout, torso etc, all of which take a great deal of time. Curious too no vds of NP VISIBLY learning/rehearsing pointe work exist. Surely an actor who did this would be rightly proud & would like it to be seen at some point, say in rehearsal vd or in dvd extyras? Actors 2 modest & self-effacing? .........
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
We see her dance en pointe in the movie. That's enough. And yes she can be proud of that, you are right about that. But it doesn't matter anyway. Sarah Lane had her 15min of fame, the end of her stage career is nigh, while Portmans only trouble will be, how she can trump her last success.
And you are ignoring the fact, that Portman also danced prior to Black Swan. perhaps you should educate yourself a littl more about that, and about ballet in general.
ent0r 7 months ago
@ent0r Portman's childhood classes was at amateur level, it's NOTHING. Many kids have ballet classes as a hobby, just like many kids do piano lessons for personal enjoynment. It is nothing compared to the professional training that future professional ballet dancers do. Not to mention that they do it continuously for years. As to Sarah Lane's stage career it's nowhere near the end. Your hatred of ballet and Sarah Lane is obvious. Watch some ballet school documentaries here.
jewelmarkess 7 months ago
@jewelmarkess
I wouldn't call it hatred, just the usual disregard, that is shared by many others.
Sarah Lane is 26-27? How long does she got? 3-4 years? perhaps less, considering there is little demand for her? But she has set her name as the Black Swan dance double, so she will be remembered.
ent0r 7 months ago
@ent0r Sorry, your posts in which you deliberately misenterpret what others say and constantly bash an artist like Sarah Lane and the whole art of ballet and make ridiculous claims about NPs dancing ability really show more than that. Also, ballerinas dance at least until 40. As to "little demand" - your disregard for the position of a soloist at ABT (hint: try to get a job in corps de ballet in this company...) just shows someone who values popularity over artistry.
jewelmarkess 7 months ago
@jewelmarkess
I don't misinterpret them, I am showing how little sense most pof you people make. And I am not bashing ballet, I am simply saying that it's not more special than any other art form or sports. Portman danced those bourees, that's a fact, and the fact that you people won't acknowledge that elevates this accomplishment even more.
And whether ballet is much more artistic is subjective. I like many others simply don't like ballet that much. And that's ok, no matter what you think.
ent0r 7 months ago
to @adballet - STILL film-studio Thought Police bang on about pointe work being easily acquired, ignoring Copeland's & all other dancers' prior training, natural gifts, incl. TURNOUT, essential 4 proper execution of basics, which transform the body & build strength required for ballet. Some NP fans should work as dancers, then as teachers & work with ballet physios. Then their opinion, on a par now with DA's about ballet, would be relevant. Instead, immature insults fly our way - curious, eh?
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
Ps to @adballet Correct. A prima ballerina's physique (after 8 yrs + training)cannot be achieved by dropping a load of weight in a yr.& arm-flapping aged 28. Every move NP did was as balletically incorrect/inadequate as it could be as it is only possible - after a yr, with no turnout etc - to be anything but an ENTHUSIASTIC AMATEUR. Adult amateurs can do all this in no time at all (mine have and do!) 'cos it is not classical ballet in BS except, as we know, when Lane/Prosa are cgi' in. lol
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
But it's still good enough to fool you and adballet into thinking, that Portman didn't dance en pointe. On the other hand you are both obviously not as savy about ballet as you think.
ent0r 7 months ago
She's just a stupid jealous spoiled little cunt ¬¬ LOLL what does she expect?! Natalie turning in her Oscar and giving it to her?! Go kiss ass or somethin, you're a DANCER and will always be a dancer. Cunt.
LITTLExMAGGOT 7 months ago
What did she expect!? she's a double for god sake!! most of actors have doubles, why? because they're just acting! they can't do it all, they don't know everything, like if you expect only because someone is acting as a lawyer should know all about the law!! or like Catherine Zeta Jones in Chicago, does it means she was the best singer in the world??!?! hell NO!
alexiaashford 7 months ago
what the hell! "all she did was the fouettes THE FOOT WORK and a pirouette????? if you watch the movie you will see THATS ALMOST EVERYTHING! and they try to FOOL people into thinking thats not alot, im a pro ballet dancer, and i know for a fact that doing all the (foot work) is actually a big deal. im NOT saying natalie didnt work her but off, it must have been REALLY hard, and shes a great actress,:) but nobody is giving sarah lane nearly enough credit,
teenovels 7 months ago
I love how everyone is arguing about whether she danced or not :')
xsexyminxyx 7 months ago
@xsexyminxyx Whoever has put a pointe shoe on their feet and tried to go on pointe ONCE knows NP did NOT dance on pointe. The shoe is about 10% of the work, the rest are muscles that are basically capable of reversing gravity, so that the weight is UP, not on the poor little small bones and muscles of the tiny feet. With the muscle power NP has, maybe it would work in a different planet with a lesser gravity, maybe the Moon would do.
adballet 7 months ago
@adballet I'm not saying she danced en pointe, i'm a ballet dancer and i know how hard ballet is, let alone dancing en pointe. in every featurette i've seen, she is dancing in regular ballet slippers on demi pointe. they use sarah lanes pointe work and replace her face with NP's. That doesn't necessarily mean NP didn't dance now does it? it just means she hasn't danced the pointe work. besides, no one can learn to do fouettes after 6 months of training.
xsexyminxyx 7 months ago
@xsexyminxyx Yes, it means she danced. Badly. That is not Swan Lake. That is not even ballet.
adballet 7 months ago
@adballet that's all i'm saying, that she danced. she didn't do a bad job considering, the training she was given was only meant to give her the appearence and body of a prima ballerina. it wasn't meant to give her the ability to dance like one.
xsexyminxyx 7 months ago
@xsexyminxyx Well, that is exactly what I am saying. The appearance and the body of a ballerina is the ballerina itself. You cannot separate how a ballerina looks from the art. The looks in ballet is 50% of the art, the movement is the other 50%. NP is incapable of looking like a ballerina at any point, while she is standing or while she is "dancing". Once upon a time Hollywood had actresses who could hold their backs up. They may have lost their backs but Swan Queens still have to have them.
adballet 7 months ago
@adballet which is fair enough, i understand your point. i am a fan of NP but i can admit that dancing wise she was no swan, and i can understand why her double, sarah lane is so offended that the director said a prima ballerina can be made in 1 year. all i'm saying is that NP probably tried her best, her job was to act as a ballerina and she did the best with what was given to her - 1 year intensive training, a petite frame and fancy costumes.
xsexyminxyx 7 months ago
@adballet So once again we must believe film/NP/DA fans who R all experts in classical ballet! Why else would they claim U R 'clueless about ballet, thinking it takes years to go en pointe' Once again the H'wood Thought Police know all about balett/pointe work so why don't they go advise Vaganova, Royal Ballet School & all other top schools around the world, whose girls actually do take years to do dance en pointe. Think how many yrs can B chopped off pro training with these ppl advising them!
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
This shows again how clueless you are about ballet, if you think that it takes years to go en pointe. The girls don't need years to learn how to dance en pointe. They simply arent't allowed to in young age because of lack of ossification.
Misty Copeland who did it within 3months.
ent0r 7 months ago
@adballet Ppl unaware of pro ballet cannot seem 2 understand that 4 pointe work to be balletic & not a piss-take requires all you said plus TURNOUT, flexibility & very strongly developed arches, none of which NP has. One is born for ballet with natural turnout or not. Turnout cannot be acquired, like strength in a gym. Of course one can have an operation which was popular some time back with ignorant ballet wannabees. Result ? APPARENT turnout & NO strength in groin, just floppyness! lol
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@adballet
Just shows how little your expertise mean, considering, that Portman actually danced en pointe.
It' actually pretty clear that it's portman if you know what to look for. But it doesn't matter, since nothing comes out of this controversy, and Sarah lane is obviously trying to backpeddle, since she's got nothing.
ent0r 7 months ago
I'm typing this on a Friday & would have to check my diary if anyone involved in any way with BS told me tomorrow was Saturday. The glory of cgi cannot totally disguise stiff, undeveloped, non-ballerina feet & torso. Why keep keep a dog and bark yourself? Would NP not have won Oscar without the OTT hype? That is a serious question btw. Ballet technique & physiques are my business, always have been so I can believe my eyes, not swallow what H'wood's says. Still a film fan tho' .
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
She would have won the oscar. All the people who are egible to vote who gets an oscar, are actor themselfes, and are aware, that doubles are tricks of the trade. Anyone who would ahve wanted to check whther Portman had a dance double could have looked it up on the internet.
The fact, that you dismiss the possibility that Portman danced the bourees, only shows what a deluded person you are, on par with "birthers" or people who don't believe we were on the moon, or who did 9/11.
ent0r 7 months ago
Copleand was lucky 2B be physically endowed for ballet & even luckier 2 B encouraged to go for it. Her top-class training at a young age allied to her natural ability made pointe work relatively 'easy'! There are quite a few gifted young ppl like her. NPis not one of them. Great weight-loss, absolutely no turnout, stiff, inflexible torso & sickle, undeveloped amateur feet from an actor aged almost 30 means the only way possible to perform en pointe is with cgi.
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945 P.s All credit to camera crew, lighting, editing, cgi etc because only on film can these effects be realised and I sometimes think we take them TOO much for granted. Without them of course each and every film actor's performance would be, for many of them, piss-poor. Didn't Dirk Bogarde and Jane Fonda have their own lighting man who flattered them enormously with lighting?
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
And that's what movies are about, and that's one of the many reasonswhy they are immensly more popluar than ballet.
ent0r 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945
Sure, misty Copland was very talented, but that still dosn't change the fact that Portman danced en pointe. If you are not able to see whether it was CGI or not, then it's simply shows, that your judgment isn't reliable.
Kurt Froman.connfirmed long before any controversy, that she danced en pointe, and if you think that he and Aranofsky lied with nothing to back it up .... well I guess that's why you support Sarah lane, since she's as dumwitted.
ent0r 7 months ago
Movies are fake entities, if anybody wonders. What's next? People will go and claim that Shrek doesn't really exist? LOL. It's all CGI. Get over it.
VenusAsABoyFilms 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
BTW, did anybody teach you that you can argue without insulting the other person? That only shows despair and ignorance.
adballet 8 months ago
YOU pointed out, that she did the fouetts to the left and said "what she does in that movie is not her best at all", which as I pointed out, is not true. She did them to the right which is her best .... if you would call it that way.
And again, why didn't she do the fouettes to the left, if she were able to do so? Why did they have to flip the hot? And unlike Sarah Lane, Portman is not as trained as her, but that's the thing. For some reason you people think she should be which is stupid.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r I AM GONG TO REPEAT MYSELF:
SHE DID ALL TURNS TO THE LEFT. GET IT? Not only the fouettes.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
I'll prove you that she didn't do the fouettes to the left.
Look at the black swan costume. It's asymetrical, since it covers more of the right chest.
watch?v=c7gsKaN1moU&feature=related 0:47
Now watch
watch?v=4n71sjmd-bM&feature=relmfu 3:43
If you look closley you can see the side that has been covered more has switched.
This is consistent with her ABC interview where she performs it again, to the RIGHT.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r I can't see the second video you are talking about. I have seen Lane many times in class and on stage, she can do what I saw to either side. And Portman can't do it on neither side.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
And noone claimed that Portman did the fouettes, so what's your point?
And it seems you are as inept as Sarah Lane, who claimed that Portman never mentioned her, when it comes to using the internet. or you are trying to stay ignorant since accepting that there was "fooling" around to make Sarah Lane look better than she actually is.
Just go to some video where the Black Swan fouettes are shown and pay attention to the costume. There are dozens here.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r Tone down again you language. Sure she does the bourres and that's why you can only see her from the back. Before the suicide I don't see the feet and she is running not doing bourres. And FYI, the professional training is 10 years. You start at 7 and at 11 yo go on pointe, and if you are talented at 17 you are ready. And it doesn't matter to which side she did. It is Lane. If they thought doesn't look good enough they could have hired somebody else. I don't think so.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
First of all you awere the one who got nasty first.
2nd it still doesn't change the fat, that it's Portman both times en pointe.
And as I said you have no clue about ballet.
The reason why children are not allowed to go en pointe sooner is because of ossification to avoid deformities since their bones are not as sturdy. Misty Copland learned to dance en pointe within 3 months when she was 14.
And you were the one who stressed that it wasn't her good side ... which was WRONG .. again.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r So is it your claim that they flipped the manege too? For what?
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
I'm not going to repeat myself moron.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r Well, maybe the pic on my profile are mine. Could I see yours?
adballet 8 months ago
@ent0rMy pointe is that she did NO pointe at all. She doesn't even wear pointe shoes. I cannot see any insurance company insuring NP with such a blatant undertraining. Soi the insurance guy/girl got there and said: "If she has an accident wearing those hard things, it doesn't matter what she is doing, we are OFF the hook.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
She doesn't wear pointe shoes all the time, but she did those bourees.
You are simply WRONG, and it's ironic, that people who think that some dancer didin't enough credit, are trying to rob someone who trained for a year, just to look credible and to do a few things, of her credit.
But it's pretty clear that you are either ignorant or stupid and have no clue about ballet at all.
ent0r 8 months ago
I don't think she should be trained at all as well trained as Lane, I just think she should stop saying she can do with 1.5 years of training what all top world class prima ballerinas take 10 years plus to maybe achieve it.
adballet 8 months ago
@ent0r Do you see her face in the bourres at the beginning? And do you see her feet at the end? NO. So, once you are so smart please enlighten me why she is not wearing pointe shoes in the BS entrance.
Again, ALL the turns are to the left. The pique manege is also to the left. But assuming, for the sake of argument, they flipped I can see only one reason. Those ridiculous wings were in the way and throwing her off. No professional dancer is required to do double fouettes to the left.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
Since it's an uninterrupted shot wher she simply turns away, and since there is that wide shot where she does bourees again, which has been confirmed by Aranofksy and Kurt Froman.
And she didn't wear pointe shoes because the choreography in the Black swan entrance didn't demand it.
And what wings are you talking about moron? Do you realise that those are CGIed onto her? Are you stupid or just retarded?
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r If your arguments were so goo you wouldn't need to call me a moron. The turning wings after they were grown seemed to me they are an actual piece of prop. While they were growing no. But, hahaha, you made my day. Since when pointe shoes became optional for Swan Lake?
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
Sure .... they made her grow feathers. There's a video that shows how the wings sprouts, so how about you go and inform yrouself first.
And you perhaps did not realise it, but this movie isn't about swan lake, and the ballet is just a backdrop. They changed a lot beginning from music, to choreography and a lot of other things that don#t fit into the realworld, for dramatic reasons.
But that's just showing off your ignorance again.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r When they are growing yes, after, it is a prop. I guess that is why she is not wearing pointe shoes, for dramatic reasons. Hahaha!
But I had enough from you. I don't think you will grow manners for dramatic reasons. Bye
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
Did you watch th movie at all?
It's a long continous shot where she makes her fouettes until she stops and has large wings. So at which point could they have stuckthem onto her? And it only proves how bad your eyesight is, if you think they were props or real in any way.
You know, what would be really nice? If you could grow a brain for common sense.
ent0r 8 months ago
@adballet Have U noticed that anyone who spent a lifetime in ballet, trains girls to prof. standard & works with ballet physios & surgons who specialise in dancers problems, still knows nothing? Only non-deluded fan (studio employee wih vested interest?) sees NP'S bad amateur feet, legs, arms,torso & believes she can do pointe work 'cos that's what was said. Ergo 'tis true! But they do not KNOW ballet. Flats 4
dramatic reasons? Utter crap, ain't it? End of 'debate with @ent0r from me too!
MrKLT1945 7 months ago
@MrKLT1945 Yeah, I have no idea why NP fans would want her do dance on pointe and spend a lifetime with screws in her ankles. And, I understood, Copeland did gymnastics before, so she wasn't exactly couch potato. And now, that's all we needed, for poor super endowed Copeland's body to be compared to short legged/armed NP. She finished her training a looooong time ago and she is not even 28 yet.
adballet 7 months ago
@adballet
Noone wanted to see her dance en pointe, we wanted a movie with a decent script and acting, which we got.
And Portman wasn't a coach potato either, but it hardly matters considering how clueless you are about ballet, thinking, that it takes years to go en pointe.
ent0r 7 months ago
Comment removed
adballet 8 months ago
P.s When I trained a million yrs ago we were taught to turn to left and right in ALL the forms of spins, & had to practise the ''weaker' side 4 times as often as the preferred side. Single fouette rond de jambe to the weaker side (with the very occasional double!) became easy, multiples spins in fouettes to the preferred side VERY easy. All pro (and some amateurs) dancers I know can do any turn both sides, just MUCH better one side than the other. Not rocket science, just top-class training.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
Notice, folks, how a simple typo cannot be excused unless the post is in praise of BS/NP - smacks of desperation. Raising legitimate query about displaying ballet knowledge on other ballet sites is also forbidden. In my case hastily-written, unchecked post still received bile. Is someone here working for the studio? What's wrong with an invitation to post on other ballet sites? Hell, we know why the offer is declined, don't we? NP's amateur ballet should have been TOTALLY cgi'd or cut out.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945
Do you lack reading comprehension? "Adballet" is the one who is furious about a simple typo. Where the hell do you read that anyone else attacked typos because they support Portman?
Anyways, IF Sarah Lane is so good, why did they bother to flip the shots?
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r Sarah Lane is a beautiful dancer and if Hollywood flips things around, could you please enlighten us on how it makes Lane's dancing bad? Again Lane is a virtuoso technician and beautifully trained. There is nothing there that Lane could not do to both sides, specially in a movie. On the other hand, Portman's dancing looks bad on any angle.
adballet 8 months ago
To RLviddy and ImaginedWriter - Glad to see the Thought Police haven't got you! As you can see below, anyone who knows & cares about ballet, has a brain & does NOT post NP boot-licking stuff is fair game for NP fanatics. These fanatics (studio employees some of them?) who now now ALL about ballet - courtesy of the aptly-abbreviated film BS - somehow never display their brilliant ballet expertise & knowledge on any pure ballet sites!
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
To be a great dancer takes years of work, I'm pretty sure the double did most of the worked for which Portman is taking credit.
It's an insult to think that some hollywood type can in a few months match people who have spent most of their lives perfecting their bodies to this art.
ImaginedWriter 8 months ago
P.s Nothing wrong with anyone augmenting their salary in any profession. Some of us old ex-dancers are wondering why we do not read any inciteful, relevant comment from you on any of the many ballet vds on YT, comments that would display your classical ballet expertise. There are plenty available - Vaganova, RB, Paris Opera & Shanghai students; old vds of past greats; present greats; novices asking for advice. Go for it!
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945
Oh trying to change the topic? Pathetic.
ent0r 8 months ago
P.s Forgot to mention SL has not, to the best of my knowledge, been raised to Prima Ballerina status (one more level after that - Prima Ballerina Assoluta, and not many of THEM around!) ABT. Someone please advise if she in fact is one.
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945
She is just a soloist, who never got to dance a lead role.
Have you really no clue at all about ballet?
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r Soloist is a cut above corps (as everyone all over the world in pro. ballet knows) & Principal is above soloist & Prima B. is almost top of the heap - gets trumped by a Pr. B. Assoluta. 'Just a soloist' is so derogatory as to beggar belief and indicates you are either an old-fashioned Prima Ballerina who NEVER spoke to the lower orders, or you have never danced in a professional company. Why should it be omitted from a CV? Do film stars omit some films from their list of 'achievements'?
MrKLT1945 8 months ago
@MrKLT1945
Well it is. She isn't principal, and a solist who never danced a lead role.
She's basically a corps dancer with a better pay grade. But tell me, why is a appearance that amounts to about 3min worth at best, that has been additionly altered to make her fouettes look better of worth in the ballet world, where only live perfomances matter?
It's because even those 3min are as good, if not better than anything else she ever did.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r First, you are wrong. Lane has danced a leading role, and I have seen her personally in Theme and Variations. And she is not basically any corp dancer. She is a soloist with the biggest company in the US. Now, for your info, what she does in that movie is not her best at all. As a matter of fact she is dancing and turning to the left which is NOT her best side. Lane is right handed, and she is dancing to the left because of Portman.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
For ATB? Which one?
And she didn't do the fouettes to the left. She did thm to the right, and then the shots were flipped to make it look like she did them to the left. Didn't know that? Yeah figures that Sarah lane wouldn't bother to tell something like that.
So basically you are saying she danced badly on her GOOD side.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r First get your spelling right, it is not ATB it is ABT. And why would they do that flip to the left? Nobody would do that. And it is not only the fouettes, every single turn is to the left. They also flipped the manege? And Lane did not dance badly to any side. She a virtuoso technician that can basically do anything. She can easily do 4 pirouttes to the right , specially in a movie that you have MANY MANY MANY chances to do your stuff.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
They probably did it, because fouettes to the left are considered harder in the ballet world. It's like the people who shoot with therir left foot in soccer.
And YOU pointed and claimed out, that she did her fouettes to the left instead to the right as she would do normally. And for the obvious reason mentioned above.
That's the reason and not portman.
So stop being a hypocrite. On the other hand perhaps you are just some moron.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r Turning to the left is easier to some people, but I know for a fact that Lane is not a left turner. And FYI, ballet dancers are trained to both sides, but there is always a best side and usually that is the one that is staged, if it is a solo. Now, if you have an argument, spell it out and keep your mouth clean. So that you don't sound so uneducated next time, ABT stands for American Ballet Theatre.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
Yes for some people, turning to the left is easier. same for shooting a ball with the left foot. Nonetheless both things are considered to be rare in their professions. And I have to say again, that YOU pointed out, that she did the fouettes to the left , which is simply not true.
So how about you stop being ignorant of that?
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r She did ALL turns to the left, not only the fouettes. And, in the case of Lane, people don't need to be doing patch work with her dancing. She can do it to any side, but I believe if she was doing to the right she could finish the fouettes with a quadruple. And I can see why you like Portman so much, she runs in in BS running like a soccer player after the ball. It may look good on Ronaldinho but it doesn't look good for Swan Queen.
adballet 8 months ago
Comment removed
ent0r 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@adballet
The black swan coda was the only continious, uninterrupted shot of importance. Everything else was pretty much edited to a point where almost anyone could have done it.
And IF she could do it to any side, why did they bother to flip the shot?
I can see why you side with Sarah lane, seeing as you are some ignorant twat, just like her.
But hey, unlike you, she finally got some sense and stopped calling people she should be grateful to, LIARS.
ent0r 8 months ago
@ent0r I am sure you could have done it, and that is what the problem is. Ignorance reads "anyone can do it." And, Oh, yes, now people should be saying thank you to thieves. And, as I said, keep you mouth clean. BTW, anyone could have tried to close their mouth during the shooting also unless they were trying to catch some flies on the way to the ball.
adballet 8 months ago
@adballet
We can make people look doing impossible acrobatics, if there's enought money to spend around, so yes anyone.
Noone stealed anthing from Sarah Lane. She is mentioned twice in the movie credits, she was mentioned multiple times before theatrical release of Black Swan in interviews, Portman herself mentioned her a few times, she is on the DVD, she got paid handsomely and now even has her 15min fame in the tabloids.
ent0r 8 months ago